India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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UBanerjee
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UBanerjee » 31 Jul 2020 22:05

Kati wrote:See how nicely US MSM has ducked the DT's sweeping drug pricing exec order. It is actually a game-changer, and will help millions of senior citizens who now will pay only pennies instead of a good chunk of their social security cheques. It's astonishing how the US MSM, under pressure from the big Pharma, is not talking about the salient / good points of the latest exec order.


The last 4 years have exposed US media like nothing else. I mean it was already there to see, but the brazen doublethink id reaching comical proportions.

Anyone remember Russia Russia Russia?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vijayk » 31 Jul 2020 23:53

But the media is winning right now ... T should have been more responsible with his utterings after corona wave. He fell in to the trap of reality TV and came out for cheap publicity

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby darshan » 31 Jul 2020 23:59

Not sure what Trump can do about media being sold out and not going China China China. Even though chinese are much bigger and real threat compared to Russians. None the less, Trump supporters since 2016 era have known about MSM and how they act. So that base isn't going to flee.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby m_saini » 01 Aug 2020 00:16

UBanerjee wrote:
The last 4 years have exposed US media like nothing else. I mean it was already there to see, but the brazen doublethink id reaching comical proportions.

Anyone remember Russia Russia Russia?


One thing I adore about the chinese is how they control the media. Funnily enough it's that same step-motherly treatment that makes the US UK MSMs treat china fairly compared us who despite rolling out the red carpet get shown as rapists and snake-charmers :mrgreen:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 01 Aug 2020 01:52

darshan wrote:So from what I'm gathering is that two factions of Abrahamic religion didn't get along and one genocided another. To not look Abrahamic religion look bad, they decided to focus on Hitler and non Abrahamic heathen symbol.


In this context, this is a good Wikipedia page with lots of information re. racism of Ashkenazi jews against Mizrahi Jews, Shepardi Jews, Bene Israel (Indian Jews), and Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 01 Aug 2020 02:16

hanumadu wrote:Google translate,
https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=de&tl=en&text=hakenkreuz, translate haukenkreuz to swastika. You can all suggest an edit and make it hooked cross. If enough people suggest, hooked cross might appear along with swastika or replace it altogether, assuming google plays fair.

Please click the link and suggest 'hooked cross' as the translation.


I also suggested English to German Swastika to Swastika, same two way for Telugu to German, Hindi to German, etc.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 01 Aug 2020 02:24

darshan wrote:Not sure what Trump can do about media being sold out and not going China China China. Even though chinese are much bigger and real threat compared to Russians. None the less, Trump supporters since 2016 era have known about MSM and how they act. So that base isn't going to flee.


Problem is base isn't enough to get him over the bump. That said, African-American and Hispanic support has increased for Trump.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby banrjeer » 01 Aug 2020 03:18

ricky_v wrote:The psyche of the west can be much clearly understood if one assumes human history to be ~450 years old, as is prevalent in the west. From this assumption, you have the following chronology:
1) Slavery existed with the europeans as masters and the sub-saharans as slaves; besides this, slavery never existed in any other form.
2) Democracy has been the norm of human civilisation.
3) The church of holocaustianity was established.
4) Traditional religion was found lacking and hyper consumerism filled the spiritual void.
From this, it is not difficult to grasp the modern western thought process. Civilisations like the ancient egpytians, romans, greeks, hindus are as relevant to them as dinosaur fossils; good for intellectual discourses, but not something that should exist in the current times.


All colonists were not the same. The germanic colonizers (England , Belgium, Dutch ) had and have a long term INSTITUTIONAL mindset as compared to say Spain and Portugal.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/26/us/dna-t ... index.html

Slave rape was far more limited in the US vs Latin America. Not because of kindness but because they viewed slaves as assets who were inheritable. You dont f*ck with inheritable wealth and long term ROI. In fact you fight a massive civil war to defend the right to own slaves. This is resolve at an institutional level. In Brazil slave traders were interested in the initial profits but slavery but the sustained benefits of free labour was diluted quicker with interbreeding with demand for fresh meat. In Brazil many slave traders were former slaves.

As for other aspects of western society. You have the institutionalization of scapegoating and witch-hunting behaviors.... a transference of guilt thru church and academia. You build gas chambers, perform inquisitions on a mass scale at the drop of a hat. So because Jesus the jew was crucified. You hold all jews guilty because of an individual.. Judas. It becomes kosher to burn pagans and witches for not accepting Jesus. Later on it became kosher to gas jews. And who will foot the bill for the holocaust ? why the Palestinians ... semites par excellence are now the prime anti-semites.

As per the prof. Sheldon Pollock, the inspiration behind Nazism is Sanskrit and Indic culture... The evil heathens trope. So overall either through academic or mercantile institutions, guilt is always transferred but the benefits always accrue. It works like a pump.

Only imperial Japan and Recently China have exhibited anything close to such long term ordered behavior. China has carefully stolen and harvested western tech but remained protectionists.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vijayk » 01 Aug 2020 04:08

Vayutuvan wrote:
darshan wrote:Not sure what Trump can do about media being sold out and not going China China China. Even though chinese are much bigger and real threat compared to Russians. None the less, Trump supporters since 2016 era have known about MSM and how they act. So that base isn't going to flee.


Problem is base isn't enough to get him over the bump. That said, African-American and Hispanic support has increased for Trump.


How? Is it even possible? May be Just FUD from Trump base

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vijayk » 01 Aug 2020 04:11

But if T loses, this will be a template in India and all democracies ...

Left/Islamists will start riots/protests on roads with help of International terrorists, media, chinese, MoveOn kind of orgs

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rahul M » 01 Aug 2020 10:19

chetak wrote:Indian media will be agog with Kamala Harris stories.

Public service announcement: She is NOT Indian. She has not even owned her Indian ancestry except for that stupid Mindy Kaling show.

India will NOT benefit from it. Stop showing inferiority. Celebrate real Indians.

Chetak ji, I have said this before, always post the link or attribute the author when copying posts from twitter.
It's a simple enough request to comply with.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Pratyush » 02 Aug 2020 11:03

vijayk wrote:But if T loses, this will be a template in India and all democracies ...

Left/Islamists will start riots/protests on roads with help of International terrorists, media, chinese, MoveOn kind of orgs



Trump has to win. In such a way that it totally destroys the donkey party and its fellow urban naxals.

If the donkeys win they along with the urban naxals will turn the USA into Stalinist USSR. With purges and mass executions.

But for India it will make sure that we are alone against PRC.

Whatever you say about Trump. He has to win in order to keep USA in the fight for the next 20 years.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Roop » 02 Aug 2020 12:05

Pratyush wrote:Trump has to win. In such a way that it totally destroys the donkey party and its fellow urban naxals.

If the donkeys win they along with the urban naxals will turn the USA into Stalinist USSR. With purges and mass executions.

But for India it will make sure that we are alone against PRC.

Whatever you say about Trump. He has to win in order to keep USA in the fight for the next 20 years.


I agree completely.

If Trump loses, it's a long dark night of suffering as you described (purges, mass executions etc.), but not just for America. The very same danger will stalk all democracies down the road, including India.

But I think Trump probably will win; these "polls" showing Biden with double-digit leads are all bogus propaganda engineered for the express purpose of depressing turnout among Trump supporters and discouraging funding / donations to his campaign. After all, who would waste his money on a "guaranteed loser", or waste all that time and energy going out to vote for that same "loser" on election day? This is the motivation behind all the fake polls. NYT / WaPo / CNN / MSNBC etc. are all simply the propaganda arms of the Democratic party.

There's one thing I have to say about Trump -- the guy has courage. He is just fearless in fighting for his cause (as he sees it) and no amount of hysterical screeching from the fake-news media will deter him. Sure he sometimes goes overboard with his tweets and pisses off a few undecided voters, but those voters were never going to vote for him anyway, so it's no net loss for him to piss them off. OTOH his display of brash courage in the face of enemy fire has earned him a lot of respect among other voter demographics that normally would never vote Republican -- I'm talking about blacks and latinos. These latter two groups will, I believe, be key to delivering Trump's victory in November, more than making up for the whiny white women who do nothing but complain about Trump's "tone" but apparently have no problem with urban riots, arson and even murder committed by BLM, Antifa and other Democrat front groups.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby M_Joshi » 02 Aug 2020 15:00

Soros & other Liberal billionaires donating money & actively providing support to left/lib extremists is a template if successful will be implemented in countries like Poland, Hungary, Brazil, UK, etc. Soros has specifically mentioned Modi & India as a threat & March Delhi riots were just a test run which got disrupted due to Covid-19. Modi has been nothing short of endorsing Trump for Nov'20 especially to Indian Americans in Houstan & Ahmedabad rallies. I think MAD trio is also aware the dangers of having a left establishment in DC at this critical moment in world affairs. It is upto the mango Americans to see their future & vehemently crush this sponsored uprising.

Biden if elected will be the Bahadur Shah Zafar for the American Global empire. He has already chosen sides in India with his Islamic staff choices & his statements on CAA & Kashmir. GoI should do whatever it can to help Trump get past in Nov'20. If that means having a short border skirmish with China at LAC in Oct giving Trump a chance to down few Chinese ships in SCS then let be it. Trump needs a big win right now before he goes in debates in Oct. His biggest win of US economy is in doldrums right now & the no of deaths & Covid mismanagement hasn't helped. If we see the Trump in debates we saw in '16, then he is going to chew & spit Biden like our Banaras brothers spit gutka. But that will not be enough. People need to see him delivering on his pre-poll promises & his 2nd promise after economy was countering China. He has three months to do something substantial against China & cement his 2nd term. USA needs a 9/11, Battleship Maine kind of event in SCS to bring Americans together against a common enemy & swift & short US military action against this enemy. China knows & will keep mum till Jan & hope Biden Shah Zafar gets elected & this nightmare of 4 years for China will end. If China can use aggression & national security to galvanise its populace, Trump can do the same, especially when it's about his survival at the Oval office.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Gyan » 02 Aug 2020 19:18

M_Joshi wrote:Soros & other Liberal billionaires donating money & actively providing support to left/lib extremists is a template if successful will be implemented in countries like Poland, Hungary, Brazil, UK, etc. Soros has specifically mentioned Modi & India as a threat & March Delhi riots were just a test run which got disrupted due to Covid-19. Modi has been nothing short of endorsing Trump for Nov'20 especially to Indian Americans in Houstan & Ahmedabad rallies. I think MAD trio is also aware the dangers of having a left establishment in DC at this critical moment in world affairs. It is upto the mango Americans to see their future & vehemently crush this sponsored uprising.

Biden if elected will be the Bahadur Shah Zafar for the American Global empire. He has already chosen sides in India with his Islamic staff choices & his statements on CAA & Kashmir. GoI should do whatever it can to help Trump get past in Nov'20. If that means having a short border skirmish with China at LAC in Oct giving Trump a chance to down few Chinese ships in SCS then let be it. Trump needs a big win right now before he goes in debates in Oct. His biggest win of US economy is in doldrums right now & the no of deaths & Covid mismanagement hasn't helped. If we see the Trump in debates we saw in '16, then he is going to chew & spit Biden like our Banaras brothers spit gutka. But that will not be enough. People need to see him delivering on his pre-poll promises & his 2nd promise after economy was countering China. He has three months to do something substantial against China & cement his 2nd term. USA needs a 9/11, Battleship Maine kind of event in SCS to bring Americans together against a common enemy & swift & short US military action against this enemy. China knows & will keep mum till Jan & hope Biden Shah Zafar gets elected & this nightmare of 4 years for China will end. If China can use aggression & national security to galvanise its populace, Trump can do the same, especially when it's about his survival at the Oval office.


I agree. But I believe we are not preparing for actual action except for some fig leaf mobilization. A sense or feel that we are gearing up for actual action is missing.
This is same as Operation Parakaram, where Pak always knew that India is not going to attack & the whole thing is for winning UP assembly elections, which BJP lost.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby darshan » 04 Aug 2020 05:10

Thanks to US Muslim Coalition Efforts ‘Branded Cities’ Refuses to Run Adverts for Hindutva Groups at Times Square
https://clarionindia.net/thanks-to-us-m ... es-square/
NEW York—A coalition of Muslim groups in USA have announced that a top advertising company Branded Cities which runs the digital advertisement board for NASDAQ in Times Square have “refused to run digital advertisements” for right-wing Hindu groups planning to showcase images of lord Ram on billboards in Times Square.

Several Muslim groups have come together in US as a coalition to promote the casue of Babri Masjid. The coaltion is comprises of Indian Minorities Advocacy Network- ImanNet, Justice for All, Coalition of Americans for Pluralism in India CAPI,North American Indian Muslim Association NAIMA, Islamic Circle of North America -Social Justice ICNASJ and The International Society for Peace and Justice .

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 04 Aug 2020 07:21

darshan wrote:Thanks to US Muslim Coalition Efforts ‘Branded Cities’ Refuses to Run Adverts for Hindutva Groups at Times Square
https://clarionindia.net/thanks-to-us-m ... es-square/
NEW York—A coalition of Muslim groups in USA have announced that a top advertising company Branded Cities which runs the digital advertisement board for NASDAQ in Times Square have “refused to run digital advertisements” for right-wing Hindu groups planning to showcase images of lord Ram on billboards in Times Square.

Several Muslim groups have come together in US as a coalition to promote the casue of Babri Masjid. The coaltion is comprises of Indian Minorities Advocacy Network- ImanNet, Justice for All, Coalition of Americans for Pluralism in India CAPI,North American Indian Muslim Association NAIMA, Islamic Circle of North America -Social Justice ICNASJ and The International Society for Peace and Justice .


Are the thugs in the so-called organizations being blacklisted by the Indian Embassy and denied entry into India?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby uddu » 04 Aug 2020 08:23

^^^If this is true, then it's a violation of religious freedom. India need to really hit the U.S with the religious freedom stick so hard that the noise should be heard worldwide of how U.S is denying Hindus religious freedom. Cases need to filed against the company right away for discriminating against Hindus. The U.S Ambassador need to be called and asked why there is discrimination against Hindus.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 04 Aug 2020 09:21

uddu wrote:^^^If this is true, then it's a violation of religious freedom. India need to really hit the U.S with the religious freedom stick so hard that the noise should be heard worldwide of how U.S is denying Hindus religious freedom. Cases need to filed against the company right away for discriminating against Hindus. The U.S Ambassador need to be called and asked why there is discrimination against Hindus.


Lets start with small things that can be done by the Indian embassy such as canceling the OCI, denying visa to visit India, Checking out their assets in India, Etc. This will hurt them more than other Nautanki which may or may not occur.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby uddu » 04 Aug 2020 09:28

The problem with India is that we always go with individuals. Not saying that that cant be done. But we miss the bigger picture of the elephant in the room. Religious freedom is same for all. If there is discrimination shown against Hindus, it means U.S has violated the religious rights of Hindus. The Nation that lecture everyone about religious freedom is actively participating in suppressing the rights of Hindu community. This is pretty serious matter. The company that bowed to the threats and discriminated against the Hindus should be taken to court along with U.S asked to explain discrimination against Hindus. Freedom goes both ways. It's not a one way street.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby schinnas » 04 Aug 2020 12:35

This should be a class action lawsuit on discrimination against the digital agency and also against these muslim organizations for intimidating others from doing their religious duties. We are not showing destruction of babri masjid in the ads. It is just showing Ram and Jai Shri Ram to commemorate an event ordered by Supreme court of India after due legal process in accordance with secular Indian constitution.

Trivial things like OCI blocking, etc., while it should be done, wouldn't be enough. There are enough non-Indian origin jihadis who will front end this.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby greatde » 04 Aug 2020 15:23

Rather than the religious freedom or discrimination issues, its the lack or non-existence of lobby groups/counters from the pro-India side. Today, the he who shouts loudest wins, in the global narrative

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 04 Aug 2020 23:10

schinnas wrote:Trivial things like OCI blocking, etc., while it should be done, wouldn't be enough. There are enough non-Indian origin jihadis who will front end this.


Saar, Trivial things like OCI blocking and non-issuance of visas will make these thugs think twice before they indulge in propaganda.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KL Dubey » 04 Aug 2020 23:21

^^^I agree. These things matter too.

However, I really wish India goremint would set up a religious freedom index of our own. Rather than conduct a fake exercise based on propaganda to show us at the top, the "ranking" should indeed show USA and other "developed countries" at the top, and India much below.

The ranking should also explain/list all the specific reasons why we are near the bottom, i.e. the majority community is subjected to all manner of humiliations and inconveniences whereas the "minorities" get special treatment.

- No UCC, instead random personal law boards
- No public nuisance rules against using loudspeakers
- Controls on temples, educational institutions, etc
- Rampant conversions

etc etc etc

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 04 Aug 2020 23:35

schinnas wrote:Trivial things like OCI blocking, etc., while it should be done, wouldn't be enough. There are enough non-Indian origin jihadis who will front end this.

This is not the way to think of it. Humans have minds that are easily conditioned to think about certain consequences happening in response to certain actions. Governments use this when they implement policy, including foreign policy. Big powers always cultivate a very consistent policy of response to anything detrimental to them. The Chinese for example have been very consistent in their response to anyone else hosting His Holiness the Dalai Lama, or various other things. Retaliation is swift and public. This is consistent to such an extent that anyone doing something knows what to expect in response.

The expectation of a punitive response acts as a deterrent. That is basic human thinking. That's why we don't touch an open flame - we don't ever think 'this time it may not burn me'. If a flame doesn't burn you a little every single time, you don't fear it.

One of my biggest problems with GoI is overthinking response and considering long term consequences blah blah. Strength only respects strength. Even if you're weaker, your boldness and consistency of acting decisively in your interests marks you as someone worth being careful about. Someone who waits and takes time to decide how to respond - frequently doing nothing - is a wuss who can be pushed around or tested.

The Chinese test our borders because we have no consistent punitive response policy. They would never do this on the Russian border because historically Russia and USSR were quite consistent with "you try to test us, we break your teeth, da ?" Such 'testing' isn't good policy when the other guy is guaranteed to hit back disproportionately in a controlled manner.

If there's something I'd like to see long term, it is this framework of implementing swift and immediate responses to matters like this. It does not matter if the initial response isn't effective. It can be made more severe. But the expectation that "India will respond punitively. How would we handle that ?" should be burned into others' minds as a default expectation.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KL Dubey » 04 Aug 2020 23:38

darshan wrote:Thanks to US ****** Coalition Efforts ‘Branded Cities’ Refuses to Run Adverts for Hindutva Groups at Times Square.


Well then, let's make sure the videos of the remaining squatter structure being razed to the ground by bulldozers (next month ?) are spread far and wide. Rub it in, instead of caring two hoots about what the billboards on times square are showing.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Avtar Singh » 05 Aug 2020 00:03

I 100% agree, Indias responses are always pathetic and everybody knows it....

The first response should always be a good hard kick in the teeth....
knock all the teeth out of both jaws if it turns out one made a mistake,
just say oh well let me pay for your dentistry/implants. :D

In all the anti Modi demonstrations during his London visit the stupid High Commission
should have hired a PI agency to video and track down very Indian type joining in...
These people and all their extended scum family should have been stripped of all or any
India privileges they hold.. That would be a wake up call...

Deal with your own types first and the message starts getting out.
Then deal with the foreigners.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 05 Aug 2020 00:32

vijayk wrote:How? Is it even possible? May be Just FUD from Trump base


The breakdown in Iowa (as per the stats I read during IA Democrat caucus fiasco) is ~30% D, ~30% R, ~40% unregistered.

Since IA is considered a bellwether state, I suppose the stats would be similar in the US, more so in the battleground states. It might even be "advantage Biden" in those states. If Trump loses the unregistered/undecided folks, then it is over for him.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 05 Aug 2020 00:40

vijayk wrote:Left/Islamists will start riots/protests on roads with help of International terrorists, media, chinese, MoveOn kind of orgs


These protests/riots would not contribute much to decrease Trump's popularity. In fact, they are having the opposite effect, IMHO. Trump's own confusion re. masks, loose talk on "injecting insecticide" contributed most to his unfavorable ratings on his handling of COVID crisis. He also went hammer-and-tongs against small-time news reporters like Acosta.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Aldonkar » 05 Aug 2020 02:13

Lisa wrote:
Aldonkar wrote:
I am of Indian Origin born in Kenya. Kenya (as well as Uganda and Tanganyika ) had a Indian community of about 150,000 at the time of Independence (1962).


We are heading in a direction that is probably OTT for this thread but posting a reply here as the original is here.

I am also of Indian origin and born in Kenya and disagree with a lot of what has been said above. There was absolutely NO squeeze on any of the Asian community in Kenya. The option was very straight forward, surrender your British nationality, become a Kenyan citizen and carry on as normal or retain your British passport and leave Kenya. Many Indians did not trust the regime and decided to move and many elected to obtain Kenyan nationality and continue as before. There was NO bar on how an Indian could become a citizen. Pay a small bribe and all was possible.

The majority of the Indians that obtained Kenyan nationality have thrived and continue to live lives that are opulent at least. A list of the richest Kenyans bears testimony to this fact. 6 of the top 20 are Indians.

https://businesstoday.co.ke/richest-ken ... anthropic/

Let’s add to this list, the deputy Attorney General was an Indian, 3 of the Assistant Commissioners in the Police were Indians and there was also a Sikh who was a Brigadier in the Army.

With respect to Kenyatta, his personal aide in all matters legal was Judge Chanan Singh (a gem of a man, with whom we have shared more than one meal - his personal library was so extensive that it was seized for the Kenyan Government as a national treasure when he passed away) whose opinion exceeded that of Charles Njonjo who was his employer by virtue of being the Attorney General! Yes Kenyatta was corrupt but show me an African leader (other than Nyerere) who was not.

With regards to Pio Gama Pinto assassination, it was nothing to do with him being an Indian. He was simply a communist who did not know where to draw the line. James Kiriuki, Tom Mboya, Robert Ouko, George Muchai were also assassinated. They weren’t Indians. These are matters related to power, plain and simple. One should know ones place in African politics.

As a community we hosted may "Indians" whilst we were there. The 2 that remain in my mind were Atal Bihari Vajpayee who put up at NGS’ s house and General Jagjit Singh Aurora who can home for breakfast whilst staying at S-----’s house down the road from us. The thrill of being introduced to the General remain with me to this day and the memory of that breakfast clouds every discussion of 1971 as is seems so personal a matter as I have met the man!

Much as we have emigrated from there for personal reasons we as a family as with many if not all of our friends continue to be deeply embedded with all that is Kenyan Indian that includes all our social lives and economic relationships.

I am sorry for those for whom it did not work out and felt that it would be unfair if their reflection was the only opinion on this matter. Thus this response.


Hi Lisa,

Jambo sana! It is good to come across another person of a similar background. I agree that we are drifting far off topic but I want to emphasise the relevance of this in the BLM discussion. My point is that there are black folk who are also racist, and my experience is both in Kenya and in the UK.

To address your various points. Yes there are still some Indians in Kenya. These are mainly the very rich, who have too much to lose, or the very poor, who cannot afford to leave and of course some have just accepted that they are happy to stay and have integrated into the Kenyan people.

Your point about citizenship- that Indians were free to become citizens. Yes this was the Government position and we were given something like two years to apply for citizenship. However, the practice was somewhat different. My father applied (he was an Indian citizen, originally was Portuguese being born in Goa), but never was granted citizenship despite chasing. There could have been many reasons, but our belief was that the Government did not want to grant it.

About Kenyatta's legal adviser - The judge you mention was Charan Singh. Kenyatta's lawyer was Horatius da Gama Rose (another Goan) and he acted for him when he was on trial pre independence and while he was in detention. His son is still lawer for the Kenyatta family and guess what, Kenyatta's son Uhuru is now President! Charan Singh was appointed a judge before independence and unlike the British judges, stayed on after it.

I did not claim that Pio Gama Pinto was murdered because he was Indian, but because he threatened to expose Kenyatta's corruption. However being Indian meant that he did not have an African tribal power base making him a soft target. He was a friend of my Mum as their families were from the same village in Goa. The others you mention,were all after I left Kenya; Mboya and Ruto were Luo (Kenya's second largest tribe) and fallen foul of the Kikuyu, Kenya's largest tribe that were in control. I don't know about the other two, they sound like Kikuyu perhaps they were too honest.

With respect to Indians rising to prominent positions in the legal system, forces etc, many were automatic citizens ie two generations born in Kenya. Quite often the "foreign" second in command did the work while their African superior took the credit. Some of my Indian classmates went down that route, one rose to be a Wing Commander in the Kenya Air force. Suffice to say he now lives in Canada.

I believe we are from different times (you are much younger) and different background. I came from humble beginnings and left Kenya within a month of completing my "A" Levels in January 1968. I have lived most of my life in the UK but my work has taken me to most of the world except Africa and Latin America. When I left Kenya, Vajpayee and Jagjit Singh had never been heard of but you must have rich friends to have hosted them in Kenya. My classmates in my last school were 90% Africans, and I am in touch with some of them but there was a lot of bias against the Wahindi.

You are right about Nyerere being the only African politician to be honest. He actually gave up power when his term was up. Looking at your article on the rich in Kenya, count the politicians on the list; three Presidents and their families and several ex politicians. Of the Indians several are Khojas (not listed should be Juma who manages the Aga Kahn's holdings) and at least one of the "Indians " (Chandaria) lives in the UK.

suryag
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby suryag » 05 Aug 2020 03:32

Aldonkar/Lisa jis OT alert - please continue in the india-africa thread

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Manish_Sharma » 08 Aug 2020 21:41

TWITTER

@MycoJonathan:

1/ Hindus for Human Rights in New York. Is a "Hindu" group unconcerned with Hindu rights, but very concerned with Muslim & Christian rights. They will never speak of Muslim violence against Hindus in India or South Asia because they are Christians & Muslims using the Hindu name.

2/ They help spread Hinduphobia, Hindu Hate, and anti-Hindu bigotry. Nowhere do they discuss the reality of the propaganda they help push. They are pro Islam, pro Christian, pro fake "human rights" being used to drive political agenda against India & Hindus.

3/ They're against Ram Mandir, stand for "FreeKashmir" (Islamic State breaking India for Pakistan), spread propaganda against India/Modi/Hindus, support Students Against Hindutva (another Christian/Islamic Hindu hate group against Hindus) & organized protests against CAA.

4/ They are Christians who will ally with Islam using using the "Hindu" name to trick people into thinking they are a genuine Human Rights group. As much as Islam has a problem with Christianity, in India, they unite against the perceived greater “evil” Hinduism (polytheists)

5/ The board of directors for Hindus for Human Rights shows no interest or concern about human rights for their namesake, Hindus, as in followers of Hinduism. Hindus for Human Rights is associated with Sadhana: Coalition for Progressive Hindus. They are Christian "Hindus"

6/ Sadhana: Coalition for Progressive Hindus are Hindu (native Indian) devotees of Christ. So Christians masquerading as Hindus (Hinduism). They can do this because the dictionary strips the word Hindu from exclusivity to followers of Hinduism & defines Hindu as a native of India

7/ Board of directors for Hindus for Human Rights:

Sunita Viswanath: co-founder, executive board member of Sanhana
Deepak Gupta: Active member of Sadhana.
PUNYA UPADHYAYA: Sadhana advisor
GIRI: Active member of Sadhana
RAJU RAJAGOPAL: Left Wing Activist

8/ You'll see some of these names here in this article. The Hindu name has been co-opted by Indian Christians & Christians of Indian descent calling themselves Hindus while attacking Hinduism. They'll work with Islam in their efforts to end Hinduism.

9/USCIRF has one "Hindu" comissioner, Anurima Bhargava. Here she is with the co-founder and executive board member of Sadhana, Sunita Viswanath & Samir Durvasula another executive board member. Is Anurima Bhargava is another "Hindu" devotee of Christ against Hinduism.

10/ From Sadhana's website, A "Hindu" all decked out in Christian garb. Christian Missionaries in India twisting Hinduism to make it a Christian religion while calling themselves Hindu to convert Hindus & end Hinduism. Sadhana is behind Hindus for Human Rights in NY.

11/ So, we have Hindus by the definition they are “natives of India” that could be Christians or Muslims setting up organizations to attack actual Hindus as in, followers of Hinduism. It's a sick game these bigoted Christians & Muslims play in their drive to end Hinduism.



https://twitter.com/MycoJonathan/status ... 34464?s=19

darshan
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby darshan » 08 Aug 2020 22:09

Another example of not referring to constructs of Abrahamic civilizations and rather using constructs from Hindu civilization. Former slaves won't even trace back their real identities and call out their masters. These people still haven't realized that as long as they follow white men's religion they are still slaves. The system set up and still controlled by whites is nothing more than another form of slavery, feudalism and classism.

Unspoken caste system that shaped America’: Oprah Winfrey sends book, that needlessly drags India into a debate about slavery in USA, to 500 professionals
https://www.opindia.com/2020/08/oprah-w ... aste-book/
Oprah Winfrey has made a new pick for her book club and has claimed that the book “might well save us.” The talk-show host will send 500 copies of the book, ‘Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents’ by Isabel Wilkerson, to governors, mayors, CEOs and college professors. She has called the book a ‘required reading for humanity’.

Oprah Winfrey said, “It eloquently examines the unspoken caste system that has shaped America. In writing this book, Isabel responds to a calling from the ancestors—and the ancestors are pleased.”

The core proposition of the book by Isabel Wilkerson is that the social structure of the United States of America is more aptly described as a caste system that manifests itself on the basis of race. “Race, in the United States, is the visible agent of the unseen force of caste. Caste is the bones, race the skin,” she says.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 08 Aug 2020 22:20

Darshanji,

I'm glad you brought this up. The author Isabel Wilkerson gave a talk on NPR Fresh Air and I listened to it while going to work last week. Completely false reasoning in her book. In the end, the interviewer, Terry Gross, asked her that the definition of any caste discrimination means institutional discrimination, but Wilkerson is a successful author from the NYT who has done well by anyone's standard. Wilkerson responded that a man refuse to have an interview with her as evidence. The fact she's a black woman and appears physically different is the elephant in the room she refuses to look at.
I'll post a link to her interview:

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/04/89857485 ... ste-system
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/book ... erson.html

I agree, the problem is white man's religion that has been foisted upon its slaves.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 09 Aug 2020 02:27

Manish_Sharma wrote:TWITTER

@MycoJonathan:

1/ Hindus for Human Rights in New York. Is a "Hindu" group unconcerned with Hindu rights, but very concerned with Muslim & Christian rights. They will never speak of ...

https://twitter.com/MycoJonathan/status ... 34464?s=19


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/progressive-hindus-declare-queens-temple-the-first_b_58dc6c04e4b0efcf4c66a5c9

NEW YORK — Revelation came to Sunita Viswanath one summer morning six years ago, as she set down to read the newspapers in her living room in Taos, New Mexico.

There was a story in The New York Times about Rohan Narine, a young American Hindu community organizer who wanted to screen the 2008 animated movie, “Sita Sings The Blues,” by trailblazing Jewish female director Nina Paley. Narine chose his uncle’s Hindu temple as the location, hoping the screening could be part of a series of events through which young Sikhs and Hindus — the two dominant religions in his Indo-Caribbean community — could “get to know each other.”

Narine’s peaceful attempt backfired spectacularly.

Before the screening, Narine was inundated with thousands of hate messages from supposed community leaders who, in turn, organized Hindus to criticize the movie and blamed Narine for insulting the Divine Holy scriptures revered by Hindus. After two unsuccessful attempts, Narine was forced to screen the movie in his own living room and to a much smaller audience.

Sunita Viswanath said she jumped up when she first read this story that morning.

As a progressive Hindu, she feels strongly about any kind of censorship and thought Narine had been treated unjustly by his own people.

“This man is totally Hindu; his family has a temple. You don’t get much more Hindu than that,” she said.

In response, Viswanath co-founded Sadhana, the Coalition of Progressive Hindus.

“We seek to mobilize Hindus to speak up whenever justice is denied,” said Viswanath.
... snip ...
“The right-wing Hindus have done a fantastic job in organizing. Why can’t we?” Viswanath remembers asking, referring to the “Sita” movie screening backlash.

One obstacle is the definition of secularism among Hindus. The progressive world in India is adamantly secular, according to Viswanath. Not wanting to make a fuss about their Hinduism, which has gradually “become synonymous with right-wing Hinduism,” secular Hindus in America, who care about social justice and would potentially be interested in movements like Sadhana, would like to be equidistant to all religions: “They don’t want to alienate Muslims or Christians,” Viswanath said.

Others warned Viswanath also about an old Indian stereotype: “People think that you can’t organize Hindus around a common cause because of the notion of dharma,” she noted. Dharma is a kind of individual mission statement for Hindus. It dictates the notion of “what I’m supposed to do with my life has nothing to do with what you’re supposed to do with yours,” according to Viswanath
...
...


I did some research into Sadhana. They are OK people but probably totally confused as to what sanaatana dharma is. Deracinated Indian Elite who want to become politicians and "leaders" in their communities.

Let us see if some of these youngistan turn into another Ilhan Omar like figure, stridently defending Hindus Americans, or they take the (more probable, IMHO) trajectory of Pramila Jayapal or Ro Khanna.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 12 Aug 2020 02:25

Kamala Harris is VP pick.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby dnivas » 12 Aug 2020 02:48

I did not like her one bit during the debates and also her historical baggage. He could have chosen someone better. he made his choice, choosing a cop during this turbulent times.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 12 Aug 2020 03:01

No chance she gets my vote, there are many videos of her deeds in California when she was the attorney general.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Ambar » 12 Aug 2020 03:02

If Biden-Harris win, is it fair to say India needs to prepare for a two front war in 2021 ? It will also be interesting to see what happens to US given the current situation in many large metropolitans where mobs/rioters/protesters seem to take over and destroy entire city blocks without much problem. And all the while the political grip of extremists like Ilhan Omar, AOC, Rashida Tlaib, Promila Jaypal etc keeps increasing. Interesting days ahead...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Punjabi » 12 Aug 2020 03:26

Ambar wrote:If Biden-Harris win, is it fair to say India needs to prepare for a two front war in 2021 ? It will also be interesting to see what happens to US given the current situation in many large metropolitans where mobs/rioters/protesters seem to take over and destroy entire city blocks without much problem. And all the while the political grip of extremists like Ilhan Omar, AOC, Rashida Tlaib, Promila Jaypal etc keeps increasing. Interesting days ahead...


Sad that sleepyJoe picked this identityless lady for VP. She is in denial of her Indian heritage and wanted to boast her 'blackness'...NOT voting for Dumborats...Odumbo is behind pushing this lady to sleepyJoe so he can get his 'crush' into the Potus spot once Joe sleeps away...she/Odumbo will be running the white house. Just wait for victomologists and apologists barking like mad monkeys how evil the Yindoos are oppressing Ms and we should be kind to Oinkistaan...all leftistaanis will be running the show...
I hope they don't win...it would be BAD for India...4 front war for Namo...Oinkistaanis, xinpitlers, desivictomologists and their gora maibaaps all running after evil namovirus... let's work to defeat these good for nothing dumborats!


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