India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Pratyush
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

This is not really surprising. This is just meeting my expectations of how the Biden administration will conduct business with India.

Next step will be his interference in Indian domestic politics. Which when resisted by GOI will result in cries of fascism in India. Democracy in danger.

Constant irritation is now a fact of life.
vikramb
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vikramb »

In an article written by Rep. Mark Green, it has been argued that if India goes ahead with procuring the S-400, then not only will the US cease intelligence cooperation with India but also scrap the defence partnership. The author's minimum non-negotiable requirement is cessation of ALL defence purchases from Russia.

Since the author is currently serving as a member of the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committees, there is a chance that this is actually the official stance of the US Govt.

Hence, there is a need to analyse the fallout if this threat is actually carried out. How important is the intelligence that the US provides us? Also can India forego the F-35?

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articl ... 84788.html
India Should Remove the Roadblock to a Strong Defense Partnership With the U.S.
By Mark Green

The United States and India are vibrant democracies with diverse populations and a commitment to the free market. Faced with a rising China and an increasingly aggressive Iran, we also share common adversaries. Strengthening ties between the United States and India would greatly benefit the two countries economically and geopolitically. This alliance is also crucial for ensuring peace and security in the Indo-Pacific. Yet, there is a threat to this future partnership: India's relationship with Russia. This hurdle must be overcome if there is hope for a strong partnership between the United States and India.

The relationship between the U.S. and India has grown closer over the last several years. At a 2019 Ministerial Dialogue in Washington, both nations reaffirmed India’s status as a major defense partner and agreed to deepen cooperation on maritime security, interoperability, and information sharing.

In 2021, the United States supported India’s bid to join the UN Security Council for a two-year term and has supported a reform that would allow India to join the Security Council as a permanent member. Economically, India and the U.S. also enjoy a strong trading relationship. Currently, India is the United States' 9th largest goods trading partner. Our two countries exchanged $92.0 billion worth of goods in 2019 alone.

Yet Russia remains a threat to this burgeoning defense relationship. India’s decision to purchase the defense system known as S-400 from the Russian military threatens U.S.-India relations, given that Russia is still under U.S. sanctions due to its continued military aggression and its invasion of Ukraine back in 2014.

The purchase of a missile defense system from a NATO adversary is a nonstarter. Allowing countries who have access to our F-35 equipment to work with the Russian military could compromise our military technology. As the United States continues to unveil its F-35 fighter jet to foreign allies, there are legitimate concerns that the Indian government may test their newly purchased defense system on American fighter jets, potentially exposing the S-400’s capabilities against the American military to Russian military intelligence. This puts our national security secrets at risk.

If India insists on entering into a defensive partnership with Russia, this will force our hand. The United States will have to consider foregoing our intelligence sharing partnership with India and scrap plans for a strong defensive partnership. After multiple cyber attacks perpetrated by Russia, including one that recently shut down an entire pipeline, we cannot afford to give Russia any more ammunition against our country.

There are also legal questions. As per the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, signed by President Trump in 2017, any nation that buys military equipment from Russia is liable to economic sanctions by the U.S. government. This isn’t the first time the U.S. has had to forego what could have been a great partnership with another nation because of that country’s relationship with Russia.

The U.S. was poised to strengthen ties with Turkey when they decided to purchase four S-400 batteries from Russia in July 2019. The United States responded by removing Ankara from the F-35 program and freezing assets belonging to the Turkish president and several senior officers. In keeping with our policy, the U.S. would be likely to adopt a similar response to India should it go through with the purchase of such weapons systems from Russia.

The United States and India have a tremendous opportunity to develop a mutually beneficial defense relationship. But at minimum, India will have to agree not to purchase military equipment from Russia. This is non-negotiable. If India is thinking strategically, they will prioritize building a defense relationship with the United States instead of maintaining military ties with Russia—a nation that continues to act as an adversary toward the United States and NATO.

Developing a stronger defensive partnership with India is a worthy ambition, but not at the expense of allowing Russia to undermine American military capabilities—capabilities the U.S. freely shares with nations that act as friends.

Congressman Mark Green is a physician and combat veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq. He interviewed Saddam Hussein for six hours on the night of his capture. He serves on the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committees.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Aditya_V »

Then let the Author first Admit Pakis lost an F-16 and make the Pakis to Return F-16's , Harppons, P-3C , and any equipment received as Baksheesh from a Nato country. and to kick Turkey out of Nato for Purchasing S-400.

Talk is cheap action is tough- such a condensing attitude that the USA can do what it likes but must dictate to India is not good for relations.
Pratyush
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

PRC has successfully hoodwinked the American government and the establishment in picking a fight with Russia.

That's the only way to see this obsession with Russia in the swamp.

This obsession has the potential of damaging quad because India will not stop buying stuff from Russia. As long as Russia can build reasonable level of technology. If they can't accept that then they will have to act against India. Which will damage any potential relationship with quad.

Amazing that we are faced with 2 seperate prongs of attack. One from the woke bozos exemplified by the mayor of LA and another from the neo-cons who have been conned by PRC.

Fun times.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Pooh pooh ! Shows years of cognitive bias and blinkered thinking. Makes no effort to understand current orbat and equipment profile of Indian Armed Forces, nor has any understanding of India's threats. He thinks we bought S-400 on a whim and will buy F-35s on a whim as well. Military experience in a rag tag Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't equate to any real understanding of other countries or militaries.
Pratyush
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

It's not his job to understand anything. He is a tool for establishment. When he speaks he is revealing the establishment consensus.

The establishment has to decide what is more important. Sanctioning India for buying Russian maal. Or retaining India as a partner in quad.

Simple.

Trump was a pragmatic man for all he flaws. Biden is compromised at so many levels that it's not even funny.

Like I said fun times.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

This is what the Americans get for voting in a PRC sanctioned set. I have always maintained that Xi won the US presidential election last year. We are just seeing it play out now. Nothing surprising so far, I am sure GoI with all its resources also has anticipated what will happen.

Stopping military cooperation with Russia is a red line for us, and GoI will never yield on that. So instead of telling us what to do in order to gain a good relationship with the US, it's time the Americans started doing what they can to gain a good relationship with us. Or they can continue on their chosen path toward becoming a Chinese poodle. Their choice :lol:
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Sumeet »

I have never been able to understand what kind of threat does Russia poses to US now. Can't they see what PRC is upto or concerned folks don't want to see it ?

Why are they so hell bent on pushing Russia firmly into Chinese grip ? Now some delusional congressman wants to start pushing India away as well. Without India being involved how will they pursue anything against China -- use S Korea or Japan as bases to challenge PRC should the need arise ?

With Russia out US cannot do anything from north, with India out (assuming they really push to that extent) they will loose everything from southern border, also ability to foment any unrest in Tibet and lastly loose a partner to keep an eye over Indian ocean, Bay of Bengal, Arabian Sea and Andaman Sea.

Only recently they started becoming cozy with Bangladesh. I think they are against Myanmar and were pushing India also to commit strategic suicide.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

The simplest explanation is to see who benefits from these actions, and therein lies the answer. Hence ny characterisation of this admin as PRC sanctioned.


If the US were to be actually looking at protecting its own interests instead of acting as a cat's-paw for someone else, they'd have co-opted Russia, Iran and India to deny strategic space in the landside, while they work with Japan, Taiwan and Australia to take care of the sea space. India would of course play an indirect role here too, wrt sea lanes of communication through our waters. Iran again to deny access to warmer waters in this region. In addition, they would have supported Indian efforts to bring Myanmar into the fold so that acess is also blocked for the Chinese. These actions would have bottled up the Chinese from all directions, severely constricting strategic space and denying any significant "home waters", if you will. Sort of how bay of Bengal is for us. Their only real home waters would be a small sliver of the east China sea abutting North Korea.

These are some of things one would have done, or at least attempted to ward off a potential competitor. What they have actually done is there for all to see.
arshyam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

Interestingly, some of the above has been done against India, instead. Like basing the Fifth fleet just off our waters in the Arabian sea, and the base at Diego Garcia. Ostensibly, they are supposed to deal with the threats from west Asia, they do enable the USN to keep an eye ion India. Then there is the active support and encouragement to the pakis so they could continue to be a thorn in our flesh. Do I have to mention the blind eye the Clinton administration showed to missile supplies from China to Pakistan? In contrast, china would be nowhere without American money and investments.

In a way, it's good that they have marked India as a long term threat. For not only is that a challenge for us, it also gives an insight into just how much they'll act against China.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/opin ... ons-choice
US or China? The Hobson’s choice
Deepak Vohra, July 11, 2021
China wants to be a global leader, but leadership has to be accepted. China is unable to transmit global values that other nations accept and appreciate.

The phrase Hobson’s Choice refers to something that seems to be a choice but isn’t. Democracies like the United States and India are founded on individual will and liberty. Autocracies like China and North Korea seek unity through uniformity. In the mildly centripetal agglutination of people that is India and the US, suppression (of minorities and others) does not work. One system survives, the other collapses. Despite its obnoxious triumphalism and arrogance, the American dream of liberty, the freedom of choice and the choice of freedom is a universal desire, shared by billions.
There is palpable anger against China in the US (and elsewhere) as many believe that it cheated and conned its way to US technology and investment. In a two-hour conversation with his Chinese counterpart in February 2021, Joe Biden expressed concern over China’s coercive and unfair trade practices, its violation of human rights, crackdown in Hong Kong, mistreatment of Muslims, aggressive actions in Asia including Taiwan, and obfuscation over the virus. These are the issues that Beijing wants the world to forget. “There will be repercussions for China and he knows that,” Biden said of Xi at a town hall event. He told a bipartisan group of US senators that “if we don’t get moving, they (China) are going to eat our lunch” and said famously that Xi PingPong does not have a democratic bone in his body.
America’s threshold of pain is very low. It reacts with fury when its vital interests, economic or political or military or informational or technological are threatened. Remember Afghanistan or Iraq or Syria or Pakistan?
After Trump, the US, realizing that it is too expensive to be the sole Rambo of the world, is reincorporating its friends and allies into a triple C, or “Contain China Coalition”, as the June 2021 G7 summit in London shows. A Defense Department taskforce is working on a plan to counter China. In November 2020, Donald Trump outlawed Americans from investing in firms that are suspected to be owned or controlled by the Chinese military, forcing US exchanges to delist several Chinese companies like China Mobile, China Telecom, China Unicom. Yet, Chinese companies chase US listings, because it offers greater liquidity, a massive investor base and a streamlined listing process, apart from the willingness of US investors to deal with startups. Although Hong Kong has tried to steal business from New York, Beijing’s stupid elimination of the colony’s autonomy torpedoed its efforts. Just this week, shares of the Chinese ride-hailing giant Didi crashed 20% (it had raised US$4.4 bn in New York) after Chinese authorities opened an investigation suspecting that it had shared its massive database about its Chinese users. It opened similar investigations against truck-hailing Full Truck Alliance and job-listing firm Kanzhun, immediately after the companies raised capital in the United States. Interestingly, China has no compunctions about filching data from wherever it can. Data has become the new gold standard, as enhanced AI, algorithms, machine learning, combines with state-sponsored cyber activities become more pervasive.
Several top US Republican lawmakers have introduced more than a dozen bills in Congress to counter the growing Chinese influence in the country and to protect America’s critical infrastructure. A US Congressman, who introduced five bills earlier this year, said that Communist China’s rise in military and economic power is one of the greatest security threats the US faces today. Another Congressman said that China is our foremost military adversary, which seeks to infiltrate our economy, universities, digital infrastructure and intelligence agencies.
.....
Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vikramb »

Aditi Phadnis confirms that EAM Jaishankar's trip to the US in May did not go too well. Not only was he not received properly but also subject to lectures on minority rights. Democrats fully intend to utilise the human rights agenda as a stick to create negative leverage. I expect non stop hitjobs against Modi from their establishment media and also relentless instigation malcontents here in India against the government.

https://www.rediff.com/news/special/wha ... 210719.htm
What makes Eric Garcetti the right pick as US envoy
By Aditi Phadnis

He has Biden's ear and because of the past relationship, Biden will actually listen to him, unlike some past residents of Roosevelt House, notes Aditi Phadnis.

Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, selected by US President Joe Biden to serve as ambassador to India, ticks all the right boxes.

He is highly educated (Columbia University, a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford and the London School of Economics); is strongly pro-immigrant as a grandson and great grandson of immigrants; and has deep and enduring relationships with some of the pillars of the Indian community in Silicon Valley.

In picking Garcetti, Biden is rewarding a loyalist who was one of his national campaign co-chairs. He has Biden's ear and because of the past relationship, Biden will actually listen to him, unlike some past residents of Roosevelt House (the US ambassador's residence in New Delhi) and the previous president of the United States of America.

Garcetti was a rival of Kamala Harris for the vice-presidency until he pulled out of the race and instead opted to serve on the committee that vetted Biden's vice presidential contenders. At this point, this is only a factoid. But if Harris sets her sights on bigger things, he could be crucially influential for India.

He has also served in the US military (an intelligence officer in the United States navy reserve) for more than a decade and as such, will need no help in understanding strategic and military issues in the subcontinent. He was on the Pacific Fleet which covers India.

Interestingly, Garcetti's number 2 was named before him. Atul Keshup, also 50, the new charge d'affaires, is a familiar face in the subcontinent. Not only was Keshup posted in the US embassy in New Delhi, he was also deputy assistant secretary of state for South Asia, and US ambassador in Sri Lanka and Maldives.

A BJP supporter might describe the duo as Ram-Lakshman ki jodi.

India-US relations have a lot going for them. For the nth time, both countries have underlined the importance of their strategic partnership. The post-pandemic economic recovery process will force inter-dependence. But the challenges to the partnership are many. And they stem from geopolitics as well as from divergence on multilateral issues.

Most US troops have already left Afghanistan. The rest will leave by August 30. How the transition is managed has a bearing on politics in Pakistan, in Kashmir and on terror management in India.

The LAC is far from tranquil and could flare up any time. This is a new dimension of foreign policy in India that all countries, especially the US, will watch closely.

Much more nuanced are issues of domestic politics in India. Garcetti represents a party that has very strong and definite views on how minorities are treated in India. But there is another reality as well -- as the latest Pew survey on religion in India tells us: that while the minorities worry about the rise of Hindutva forces, they do not see themselves as victims of institutional discrimination.

Moreover, the rise of Hindutva sees pushback from the majority as well, the survey tells us.

It will fall on Garcetti and Keshup to tell folks back home to hold their horses before jumping to judgment about how India treats its minorities.

All of this will have an unintended impact. As foreign minister, Jaswant Singh steered India-US relations through many crises, and it helped that Bill Clinton and the Democrats understood for the first time, India's problems in the neighbourhood, suspending judgement on issues like human rights and minority rights.

Sushma Swaraj cruised on the back of charisma and charm. What both leaders had, in varying degrees, was the backing of the political base of the BJP.

But with S Jaishankar as foreign minister, it is all a bit different. Political elements in the establishment have begun muttering about his US visit (May 2021) being a 'disaster': He had to wait to meet secretary of state Anthony Blinken and was made to hear homilies about getting leaders back home to tone down Hindu nationalistic talk.

All this suggests a degree of plain speaking and a demand to see results by hardline elements in the BJP/RSS. If this becomes Jaishankar's driving compulsion -- taking positions to be politically acceptable in a party (and a business) to which he is new -- it would be skewing the reality of India.

Garcetti-Keshup will need to help him out on that score.

There are some issues on which India and the US will never see eye to eye. Climate change is one. Former environment minister Prakash Javadekar is on record as saying that the US contribution to the $100 billion fund for mitigation and adaptation announced in 2015 after the Paris Convention is yet to come. India has also said it will not pay any tax for export of its goods, as proposed by the European parliament.

Nothing will change overnight. But Eric Garcetti will have to take this into account when he takes charge.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by venkat_kv »

vikramb wrote:Aditi Phadnis confirms that EAM Jaishankar's trip to the US in May did not go too well. Not only was he not received properly but also subject to lectures on minority rights. Democrats fully intend to utilise the human rights agenda as a stick to create negative leverage. I expect non stop hitjobs against Modi from their establishment media and also relentless instigation malcontents here in India against the government.

https://www.rediff.com/news/special/wha ... 210719.htm
What makes Eric Garcetti the right pick as US envoy
By Aditi Phadnis

..........
Much more nuanced are issues of domestic politics in India. Garcetti represents a party that has very strong and definite views on how minorities are treated in India. But there is another reality as well -- as the latest Pew survey on religion in India tells us: that while the minorities worry about the rise of Hindutva forces, they do not see themselves as victims of institutional discrimination.

Moreover, the rise of Hindutva sees pushback from the majority as well, the survey tells us.

It will fall on Garcetti and Keshup to tell folks back home to hold their horses before jumping to judgment about how India treats its minorities.

All of this will have an unintended impact. As foreign minister, Jaswant Singh steered India-US relations through many crises, and it helped that Bill Clinton and the Democrats understood for the first time, India's problems in the neighbourhood, suspending judgement on issues like human rights and minority rights.

But with S Jaishankar as foreign minister, it is all a bit different. Political elements in the establishment have begun muttering about his US visit (May 2021) being a 'disaster': He had to wait to meet secretary of state Anthony Blinken and was made to hear homilies about getting leaders back home to tone down Hindu nationalistic talk.

All this suggests a degree of plain speaking and a demand to see results by hardline elements in the BJP/RSS. If this becomes Jaishankar's driving compulsion -- taking positions to be politically acceptable in a party (and a business) to which he is new -- it would be skewing the reality of India.

Garcetti-Keshup will need to help him out on that score.

There are some issues on which India and the US will never see eye to eye. Climate change is one. Former environment minister Prakash Javadekar is on record as saying that the US contribution to the $100 billion fund for mitigation and adaptation announced in 2015 after the Paris Convention is yet to come. India has also said it will not pay any tax for export of its goods, as proposed by the European parliament.

Nothing will change overnight. But Eric Garcetti will have to take this into account when he takes charge.
vikramb Saar,
this trip by Jaishankar was made bad by the US with their belligerent posturing over supposed minority rights. not anything that India has actually done. If the US wants the Chinese to eat their lunch and then send them a bill for the same they are most welcome.

The ambassador should understand that each country has its own rules and social contracts that the citizens of that country enact for their growth/survival. It is not for the US to come in and spread freedom, democracy and minority rights. garcetti having strong views ultimately doesn't mean jack if he doesn't understand the problem.

Garcetti-Keshup needn't help out Jaishankar with anything, if at all, they need to stop poking their thumbs in places where they don't belong. before lecturing anybody on human rights The US should understand the nature of the problem. and this is not even pointing out the race issues in their own homes.

but since they are the sole Superpower they seem to fancy in telling everyone what is right. There might be a few compromises over arms deals and as such over a lot of shouting from the US and their brown sepoys in India.

A chance at taking the relationship to the next level will be sacrificed at the altar of fake human rights with selfish, ignorant and dubious characters all pitching in. If so it will be a loss for the US and a gain for China.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

If someone in South block thinking about the US ambassador to India helping to improve ties between the two nations. Then I have the title deed of Taj Mahal with the right to sell it for only 51 million dollars.

Who wants to buy?

Given his woke credentials he is more likely to tell India to let ladies bathrooms be used by men claiming to be women.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

The Aditi Phadnis story seems to have lots of holes in it. The EAM is a person who doesn't take a bunch of shit. Had the US regime treated him like she stated, then I don't think Garcetti's diplomatic visa would have been approved so quickly, nor would Modi agree to visit the US in person in September for a quad meeting very quickly after Jaishanker's visit. It doesn't add up.
Modi may travel to US for first in-person meeting with Biden later this year

Garcetti's political star is burned out and LA is literally "Escape from LA". India is the last hope for him to improve his political standing. At one time he was even being touted as a VP candidate. He gains nothing by being confrontational with India as the woke crowd does not value his woke credentials. After a few years as ambassador, he'll find a cushy job being a lobbyist for US companies that do business in India. Remember Frank Wisner? In 1997, he ended up as an Enron advisor and then an AIG executive. Garcetti is looking to increase his net worth and I wouldn't expect much more from him.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

‘India has sufficient evidence against him’: Biden govt tells LA court to allow the extradition of 26/11 accused Pakistani-origin terrorist Tahawwur Rana

21 July, 2021
OpIndia Staff

The 59-year-old Tahawwur Rana, who has been declared a fugitive by India, is accused in multiple cases for his involvement in the 2008 Mumbai terror attack in which 166 people, including six Americans, were killed. The Pakistani-born terrorist was arrested again on June 10, 2020, in Los Angeles on an extradition request by India.

The United States administration has requested a federal court in Los Angeles to extradite Pakistani-origin Canadian terrorist Tahawwur Rana to India. Tahawwur Rana is wanted by the Indian authorities for his involvement in the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks.

According to the reports, the 59-year-old Tahawwur Rana, who has been declared a fugitive by India, is accused in multiple cases for his involvement in the 2008 Mumbai terror attack in which 166 people, including six Americans, were killed.

Rana, who has been in US jail for more than a decade for supporting terrorist groups and plotting Mumbai attacks, faces extradition to India on murder conspiracy charges. Rana was earlier convicted of his role in the Mumbai terror attacks, but US prosecutors had failed to prove a terrorism charge connecting him directly to the terror attacks.

However, Rana was granted early release from a Los Angeles federal prison because of poor health and amidst the coronavirus scare. The Pakistani-born terrorist was arrested again on June 10, 2020, in Los Angeles on an extradition request by India.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_P »

Well he is a full paki and a Canadian.. What about the american citizen Daood Sayed Gilani aka David Headley?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by SRajesh »

^^Manishji
That was part pf his plea bargain if I remember correctly no extradition to India.
US allowed some interrogation by Indian authorities in US
But no such comforts for Rana!!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by SRajesh »

^^Manishji
That was part pf his plea bargain if I remember correctly no extradition to India.
US allowed some interrogation by Indian authorities in US
But no such comforts for Rana!!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/blin ... 210724.htm
Blinken to raise human rights issue during India visit
Lalit K Jha, July 24, 2021

Secretary of State Antony Blinken will raise issues of human rights and democracy with Indian officials during his first visit to New Delhi as the two nations have more values in common on those fronts than otherwise, according to a senior United States official.
Blinken is scheduled to arrive in New Delhi late on July 27. During his stay in the country, he will meet Prime Minister Narendra Modi and External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar. The Ministry of External Affairs said in New Delhi that National Security Advisor Ajit Doval will also meet Bilinken.
"With respect to the human rights and democracy question, yes, you're right; I will tell you that we will raise it, and we will continue that conversation, because we firmly believe that we have more values in common on those fronts than we don't," Dean Thompson, the Acting Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asian Affairs, told reporters during a conference call ahead of the visit.
Thompson asserted that the relationship with India is a strong one that has endured through administrations of all colours and stripes in the United States and will continue to do so. "We are looking forward to this opportunity for the Secretary to talk with Prime Minister Narendra Modi, with External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar, and continue to pursue the myriad areas of common interest that we have," he said. "I think it's fair to say that we see the relationship continuing at a very high level, and India will. of course. remain an incredibly important partner," he said.
.....
Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cain Marko »

vikramb wrote:In an article written by Rep. Mark Green, it has been argued that if India goes ahead with procuring the S-400, then not only will the US cease intelligence cooperation with India but also scrap the defence partnership. The author's minimum non-negotiable requirement is cessation of ALL defence purchases from Russia.

Since the author is currently serving as a member of the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committees, there is a chance that this is actually the official stance of the US Govt.

Hence, there is a need to analyse the fallout if this threat is actually carried out. How important is the intelligence that the US provides us? Also can India forego the F-35?

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articl ... 84788.html
India Should Remove the Roadblock to a Strong Defense Partnership With the U.S.
By Mark Green

The United States and India are vibrant democracies with diverse populations and a commitment to the free market. Faced with a rising China and an increasingly aggressive Iran, we also share common adversaries. Strengthening ties between the United States and India would greatly benefit the two countries economically and geopolitically. This alliance is also crucial for ensuring peace and security in the Indo-Pacific. Yet, there is a threat to this future partnership: India's relationship with Russia. This hurdle must be overcome if there is hope for a strong partnership between the United States and India.

The relationship between the U.S. and India has grown closer over the last several years. At a 2019 Ministerial Dialogue in Washington, both nations reaffirmed India’s status as a major defense partner and agreed to deepen cooperation on maritime security, interoperability, and information sharing.

In 2021, the United States supported India’s bid to join the UN Security Council for a two-year term and has supported a reform that would allow India to join the Security Council as a permanent member. Economically, India and the U.S. also enjoy a strong trading relationship. Currently, India is the United States' 9th largest goods trading partner. Our two countries exchanged $92.0 billion worth of goods in 2019 alone.

Yet Russia remains a threat to this burgeoning defense relationship. India’s decision to purchase the defense system known as S-400 from the Russian military threatens U.S.-India relations, given that Russia is still under U.S. sanctions due to its continued military aggression and its invasion of Ukraine back in 2014.

The purchase of a missile defense system from a NATO adversary is a nonstarter. Allowing countries who have access to our F-35 equipment to work with the Russian military could compromise our military technology. As the United States continues to unveil its F-35 fighter jet to foreign allies, there are legitimate concerns that the Indian government may test their newly purchased defense system on American fighter jets, potentially exposing the S-400’s capabilities against the American military to Russian military intelligence. This puts our national security secrets at risk.

If India insists on entering into a defensive partnership with Russia, this will force our hand. The United States will have to consider foregoing our intelligence sharing partnership with India and scrap plans for a strong defensive partnership. After multiple cyber attacks perpetrated by Russia, including one that recently shut down an entire pipeline, we cannot afford to give Russia any more ammunition against our country.

There are also legal questions. As per the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, signed by President Trump in 2017, any nation that buys military equipment from Russia is liable to economic sanctions by the U.S. government. This isn’t the first time the U.S. has had to forego what could have been a great partnership with another nation because of that country’s relationship with Russia.

The U.S. was poised to strengthen ties with Turkey when they decided to purchase four S-400 batteries from Russia in July 2019. The United States responded by removing Ankara from the F-35 program and freezing assets belonging to the Turkish president and several senior officers. In keeping with our policy, the U.S. would be likely to adopt a similar response to India should it go through with the purchase of such weapons systems from Russia.

The United States and India have a tremendous opportunity to develop a mutually beneficial defense relationship. But at minimum, India will have to agree not to purchase military equipment from Russia. This is non-negotiable. If India is thinking strategically, they will prioritize building a defense relationship with the United States instead of maintaining military ties with Russia—a nation that continues to act as an adversary toward the United States and NATO.

Developing a stronger defensive partnership with India is a worthy ambition, but not at the expense of allowing Russia to undermine American military capabilities—capabilities the U.S. freely shares with nations that act as friends.

Congressman Mark Green is a physician and combat veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq. He interviewed Saddam Hussein for six hours on the night of his capture. He serves on the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committees.
To think that India just signed a deal for almost $1 billion for the Tejas engines. I have to wonder - will the GE engine be Tejas' achilles heel?
Cyrano
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

EAM Jaishankar is more than capable of giving it back to Americans or anyone else who raises the bogey of human rights in India. And will tell anyone backing conversion lobbies in the name of relegious freedom to bugger off. All these rediff articles are wet dream speculations that desperately want to show India in a bad light. Total trash.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Ashokk
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Ashokk »

India pushes back against US human rights discourse
NEW DELHI: After the US said secretary of state Antony Blinken will raise the human rights issue during his visit to India this week, the government pushed back Sunday as it said India's proud of its achievements in the domains of both human rights and democracy.
While pointedly offering to “share its experiences” on issues related to human rights, the government said such issues were universal and extended beyond “a particular national or cultural perspective”.
Giving out India’s own laundry list of issues that the government plans to raise with Blinken, official sources said this would include the implications of the withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan, need for sustained pressure on Pakistan to check terror-financing and resumption of international air travel.


“As a long-standing pluralistic society, India is open to engaging those who now recognise the value of diversity,” said a government source, while spelling out the agenda for talks with Blinken. The remarks indicate that India would have its own take on any “conversations “ the US may consider on the subject.
The Biden administration has been consistent in speaking out on issues related to human rights while not allowing it to come in the way of bilateral cooperation with India. Most recently, after the death in custody of Jesuit priest and tribal rights activist Stan Swamy, the state department called upon all governments to respect the "vital role of human rights activists in healthy democracies”.
After his visit to India in March this year, secretary of defence Lloyd Austin had said he had raised issues related to the rights of India’s minority communities in his meetings with foreign minister S Jaishankar and defence minister Rajnath Singh. However, while there was no official denial by India, senior government sources had said the same evening that there was no such discussion and that human rights and values were mentioned only as shared attributes.
Official sources said India attached “considerable importance” to Blinken’s first visit to the country since he assumed office.
“India will press for gradual resumption of international travel, while maintaining health protocols, especially easing mobility of students, professionals, business travellers, family reunions, humanitarian cases, etc. The need for resilient supply chains of critical medicines and healthcare equipment is likely to come up," said a source, adding that the two countries will also focus on Covid containment and recovery.
On vaccines, India is likely to seek “open and consistent” supply chains for materials and items required for vaccine production.
Discussions on deepening Quad engagement will also be a key focus area with plans for a foreign ministerial Quad meeting later this year. The US is also planning a Quad summit this year.
Officials said India will also take forward Quad vaccine initiative to enable supply of vaccines produced in India from early 2022 to countries in Indo-Pacific region.
“Two sides will also exchange assessments about the Indo-Pacific region, with focus on Covid assistance, economic slowdown and security scenario. Latest developments pertaining to West Asia and Central Asia area also likely to be covered,” said a source.
“India will also engage with the US on other global issues. Political and cultural rebalancing are important trends. India supports a truly multipolar, democratic and diverse world order and expects international conversations to reflect this evolution. We believe in equity and fairness, whether in development, climate change or global decision-making,” he added.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

An old article but still, some wokes in the US or in India, without an iota of proof, talking about pegasus should first know this

and I am very sure that the white man is still doing this covertly even today




BJP among six foreign parties authorised for NSA surveillance


BJP among six foreign parties authorised for NSA surveillance

Narayan Lakshman
WASHINGTON, JULY 01, 2014

The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) was included in a top-secret list of six non-U.S. political parties worldwide that the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) received official permission to covertly spy upon, according to the latest trove of data released to the media by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The BJP, Indian government and a host of other foreign entities were included within the surveillance list of the >NSA authorised by the FISA Court in 2010 and per U.S. law this certification was required annually for the Agency to continue such surveillance every successive year.


It s not clear whether the FISA Court similarly authorised the NSA to spy on the BJP and Indian government in the years following 2010.


According to documents that Mr. Snowden published via the Washington Post on Monday, the U.S.’ shadowy Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court gave the NSA “broad leeway” in conducting surveillance upon not only these six political parties but also a list of 193 foreign governments – including India – and only four countries were off-limits under this programme.

The Post reported that Washington has long adhered to broad “no-spying arrangements” with only the U.K., Canada, Australia and New Zealand, a group known collectively with the U.S. the “Five Eyes.”

Yet the classified 2010 legal certification given to the NSA by the FISA court suggests the Agency received “a far more elastic authority than previously known,” one that reportedly allowed it to intercept through U.S. companies not just the communications of its overseas targets but any communications about those targets too.

NSA officials reportedly declined to comment on the certification or acknowledge its authenticity, but "stressed the constraints placed on foreign intelligence-gathering," including requirements set for the Agency by the President, the Director of National Intelligence and various departments through the National Intelligence Priorities Framework, the Post said.

The documents further revealed that the FISA court authorised the NSA to snoop on the Internet and telephone communications of the World Bank, United Nations, OPEC, and the European Union.

The other five political parties that the NSA had authority to spy upon were Amal of Lebanon, with links to Hezbollah; the Bolivarian Continental Coordinator of Venezuela, with links to FARC; the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood; the Egyptian National Salvation Front; and the Pakistan People’s Party.

In a comment to the Post, Jameel Jaffer, Deputy Legal Director for the American Civil Liberties Union, said, “These documents show both the potential scope of the government’s surveillance activities and the exceedingly modest role the court plays in overseeing them.”
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

If Blinken raises any hyooman rights nonsense, we should return the favour by expressing mild concern about their minorities, BLM, minority-on-Indian diaspora violence, harbouring and protecting terrorists like Headley (never mind Tahawwur Rana who is Canadian), protecting democracy by ensuring one person-one vote, every vote counts (periodic and systemic attempts to discourage voter registration), suppressing the right to free speech via social media, Capitol violence, etc. The latter is especially concerning - it impacts the health of US democracy if people feel disenfranchised by their political system and take to their streets. The US govt should take all stakeholders into confidence about the health of their democracy.

Plenty of glass available to throw stones at. Question is, will we?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

You can count on the Indian FM to give it back to the yanks in equal measure. The democratic party drama over the last few years has given enough ammunition to rest of the world to give Americans a bad time.

It's a game two can play.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

Yes, true, and I don't doubt S. Jaishankar has the attitude to give it right back. His book gives an insight into his thinking and I liked what I found. But while GoI has generally pushed back against these things, the narrative usually looks like a kid complaining about a parent's scolding, rather than a friend telling off another to not cross a line. My point is, our push back has to be public and visible - something like the MEA issuing a bland statement welcoming Blinken's remarks and stating we too will be raising some of our concerns regarding American democracy and recent developments since their last election. If anyone objects to that, our spokesperson could blandly say, "what's there to object? Friends talk openly and frankly to each other". Next time some other self-important worthy plans a visit, we should move first off the block and state what we expect from the meeting, and casually throw in one or two of these points. Or do the same when someone from our side visits the US.

Follow this a couple of times, and then the US will shut up.

[Added l8r] For this visit, this messaging is probably too late, so our response should be a one-liner reserved for the post-meeting presser: "We heard out their concerns, and conveyed our concerns about living in glass houses and throwing stones at others".
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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The media is desperate to show some schism between the two countries, and is overplaying american statements and Indian retorts on these topics. Blinken has other things on his mind than Stan "who was that again" Swami and such largely irrelevant stuff.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Haresh »

Cain Marko wrote:To think that India just signed a deal for almost $1 billion for the Tejas engines. I have to wonder - will the GE engine be Tejas' achilles heel?
The US Defense industry is salivating at the prospect of India scrapping all of it's defense purchases from Russia. They were the ones pushing for NATO expansion.
If India was to agree, then all that Russian equipment would have to be scrapped and replaced with US gear.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/06/29/worl ... nsion.html

https://theintercept.com/2016/08/19/nat ... -industry/

A closer defense relationship with the US would bring it's own set of problems. The US military is infested with xtian fanatics. this is how the took over South Korea and turned it into a poodle. The military advisors will come, and with them a request for an American type church to cater for them. Then they will "invite" Indian military personnel of all ranks to visit, & convert them, offering various inducements & before you know it these people will be pushing American policies.

https://www.advocate.com/commentary/201 ... s-military
https://www.salon.com/2018/08/19/exclus ... tionalism/
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

Haresh wrote:
Cain Marko wrote: A closer defense relationship with the US would bring it's own set of problems. The US military is infested with xtian fanatics. this is how the took over South Korea and turned it into a poodle. The military advisors will come, and with them a request for an American type church to cater for them. Then they will "invite" Indian military personnel of all ranks to visit, & convert them, offering various inducements & before you know it these people will be pushing American policies.

https://www.advocate.com/commentary/201 ... s-military
https://www.salon.com/2018/08/19/exclus ... tionalism/
Quite true., the signs are already there.

But the requirements are huge. If the Americans want Indian business, they need to create local subsidiaries., which they never will.
India needs its "independence" so will keep its strategic supplies away from american influence. That would insulate American interference.

So they would get some business but NOT all.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Iyersan »

Cyrano wrote:The media is desperate to show some schism between the two countries, and is overplaying american statements and Indian retorts on these topics. Blinken has other things on his mind than Stan "who was that again" Swami and such largely irrelevant stuff.
Stan “lodu “ swamy
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

Iyersan wrote:
Cyrano wrote:The media is desperate to show some schism between the two countries, and is overplaying american statements and Indian retorts on these topics. Blinken has other things on his mind than Stan "who was that again" Swami and such largely irrelevant stuff.
Stan “lodu “ swamy
I think that the toilet is spreading fake news. This has also not been corroborated by any US or US embassy source

blinken doesn't have the time to spare for such issues.

the agenda will be QUAD and afghanistan, cheen, and paki heavy because of the ameriki pullout and the fallout.

On both issues, the amerikis want something from from us and, relatively, us not as much.

my bet would be that lodu will not be resurrected in the agenda to take out scarce time away from any of these meetings and also risk a sure shot and embarrassing counter from the Indian FM.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by srin »

What's this thing about Blinken meeting "civil society" reps ? I'm appalled that the Govt allowed it to happen.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Aditya_V »

Well I don't think we can stop him, Indian FM meets Indian American societies in US. It is better such Associations are made out in the open.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Source News18 website
The US Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Wednesday announced an additional $25 million in US government funding to bolster India’s vaccine programme. Blinken told a press conference following delegation-level talks between the two sides that the financing will help save lives by bolstering vaccine supply networks across India, since the country has yet to reach a double-digit mark in the percentage of completely immunised individuals.

“This funding will contribute to saving a life by strengthening vaccine supply chain logistics, addressing misinformation, vaccine hesitancy and helping to train more health care workers," he said.
India should immediately reciprocate this gesture and announce 50M$ for the welfare of homeless people in NYC, LA, SFO etc under akshayapatra (overseas) scheme to run daal-kitchens.
Publish list of recepients and short video clips of aide disbursement on Amb-Ind-USA website each week.
Only then this bwana attitude will wear off.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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First threaten to block ingredients for vaccine mfg and then announce such 25M aid mesure which will be faithfully flashed by AP, BBC, BLOOMBERG and of course by desi press.

Heck I heard this just now on French radio news on France Inter 1 of 3 sentences of news reported on the topic of blinken visit, it really ticked me off.

India needs to invest seriously on image building now that we can afford it.
Last edited by Cyrano on 28 Jul 2021 22:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vimal »

Aditya_V wrote:Well I don't think we can stop him, Indian FM meets Indian American societies in US. It is better such Associations are made out in the open.
Well meeting Indian American is very different from meeting Black Panthers or KKK. Does China allow such niceties?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

https://mobile.twitter.com/SecBlinken?r ... frame.html


Can someone reply to Mr Blinken on twitter on the lines of "this gesture of your atonement for blocking supplies for vaccine mfg is appreciated. Please use these funds to help homeless people in NYC LA SFO etc. India will add an equal amount as a sign of our evolved relationship" etc.

I dont have a twitter account.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

Just $25 million? :rotfl:

"look, Ma, the massa has no money!" :rotfl:
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