India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Jun 2023 06:39

Vayutuvan wrote:"was telling visiting American businessmen during informal social hour type situations to not invest in India".

If true, these people should be named, shamed, and their names should be dragged through mud by US NRIs. This is a direct hit on a democratic ally of the US.

democratic ally of the US

Vayutuvan ji,

who are they kidding.....

At best, we are their current flavor of the month. They have a use and throw culture

I anticipate that there is likely to be some big ask of Modi by the amrikis that is going to come up during the events comprising of this allegedly "high level" interactions during the state reception. It may not even be made public for the moment but it will get out eventually

The carrot before the amrikis get out the stick.

they are not looking for a "democratic ally of the US", they want a vassal state like the britshits or like the pukis.

The attraction of the amrikis to the QUAD is they need another pukestan like vassal state to do their dirty work and they see that vassal state in India, given the nut jobs that are floating about the Indian political firmament.

kujil and pappu are feeling their political votes, hoping to clamber up the slippery slope and are hoping the the BIF will help to shoehorn them into the PM's gaddi

There is little doubt that the BIF is trying to foist cheapo creepos like these two to into controlling positions. But they will also have a plan B, as these two

Ergo, India is that "democratic ally of the US" that fits suddenly the bill.

The big relief to the amrikis is that can and they will make India pay through the nose for the weapons that they want India to possess so as to further the amriki requirements and needs in this geographical space

The amriki senate approving India's status as a NATO+ ally is allegedly the icing on the stale cake

the acid test is whether or not the US is willing to cover India too with her nuclear umbrella, and if not, this "legislative provision to give India nato ally like status is not worth the paper that it is written on.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 037824.cms

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 Jun 2023 06:53

@chetak gaaru

"they are not looking for a "democratic ally of the US", they want a vassal state like the britshits or like the pukis."

Impossible as long as there is PM Modi. I say, please be "cautiously optimistic" while not letting up the pressure from there. Same here - two groups of NRIs, one soft and optimistic and the other hard and more demanding to keep all the interlocutors honest.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Jun 2023 07:07

Vayutuvan wrote:@chetak gaaru

"they are not looking for a "democratic ally of the US", they want a vassal state like the britshits or like the pukis."

Impossible as long as there is PM Modi. I say, please be "cautiously optimistic" while not letting up the pressure from there. Same here - two groups of NRIs, one soft and optimistic and the other hard and more demanding to keep all the interlocutors honest.

Vayutuvan ji,

that is why such strenuous efforts are being made by the BIF

NRI's don't have any part to play in this, no matter what anyone says

There will be a massive blowback if such a thing (regime change) happens, or even a much weakened Modi is returned to power but with a much stronger opposition with real power to block the govt

so far, people have only seen Modi in power. No one will relish seeing Modi in the opposition and the sheer havoc that he will unleash, forcing the general election in 2025

and, for sure, there will be another general election in 2025 itself......

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 Jun 2023 08:19

Since "US help to India in 1962" came up in this thread, just wanted to link this video.

Ab Tumhare Hawale Watan Saathiyo - Patriotic Song | Mohammed Rafi | Haqeeqat 1964

I am sure @AmberG saar can understand the language much better than I do. He might even remember the news reels of that time. Highlighting American help is a a great injustice to those Indians - both defense and civilian - who sacrificed all to stop the Chinese aggression.

I also hope the following becomes a regular light-and-sound show at the old parliament in the years to come.

time stamp 6:58

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 07 Jun 2023 08:28

Haqeeqat makes an appearance on BRF. Kahin vo to nahin? Sigh.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Jun 2023 09:35

fyi

note the cross-investment numbers @2:00

disha · Post by **disha** » 07 Jun 2023 09:56

Why the sigh sir sanjayji?

Ppl like Tanvi Madan who say things like 'CIA helped save Indian democracy' are surreptitiously quoted to prove that how the current US administration is so much helping India save it's democracy while China attacked recently. Where is your sigh then?

And Haqeeqat was a great movie. There is a book coming out on Major Shaitan. Please buy it.

Chetakji, India-US relations has many facets. Including NRIs. Like it or not that facet stays. Even Pappu acknowledged that LoL

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Jun 2023 10:07

^^ That interview with ex-Ambassador Arun Singh by Surya Gangadharan is a matter-of-fact one. Those on either side of the divide would do well, IMO, to listen to that. This is how IR works.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 Jun 2023 10:41

@disha Jim @sanjaykumar ji is sighing because of Ms. Rajvansh (I presume)

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 07 Jun 2023 11:02

Something like this one. But I think it was a different interview at roughly the same period.
https://youtu.be/olIhAC9B6YI

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 07 Jun 2023 11:09

Pakistani journalist questions Whitehouse spokesman on "democratic backsliding in India"

I guess Pakistanis have no sense of irony at all.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Jun 2023 11:53

This is a consequence of Rahul Gandhi attacking Indian democracy when overseas.

Else, no one would have the balls to question India on democracy.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 07 Jun 2023 13:28

chetak wrote: The attraction of the amrikis to the QUAD is they need another pukestan like vassal state to do their dirty work and they see that vassal state in India, given the nut jobs that are floating about the Indian political firmament.
...
The big relief to the amrikis is that can and they will make India pay through the nose for the weapons that they want India to possess so as to further the amriki requirements and needs in this geographical space

This is exactly how I see it. All this belly dancing is not some sudden divine realisation that India and NaMo are great indeed.

For those overjoyed with this limelight being showered upon India, who was the last foreign head of state to address the US congress to standing ovations ? Volodymir Zelensky who has destroyed his own country and people within half a term. Even filmfare awards look less fake and more respectable.

I dont get what is so satisfying to hear positive statements on India from the same US Govt officials like Blinkens and Kirbys who say inane stuff and lie through their teeth on the Ukraine war day in and day out.

Garcetti openly spoke about his intent to have strong "sub national engagement" during this tenure. If that doesnt cause indignation but calling him an idiot does then ab aap ko kya smajhayen bhai. There is a Telugu saying "Gorre eppuDu kasaai vaDiney nammuthundi" - meaning the lamb always trusts the butcher - comes to mind.

So the argument is "Is our GoI led by NaMo and Dr SJ so naive and gullible to go along with it?" and therefore the shortcut "If they are going along, then aalleez good". The best counter to this :

NRao wrote: Modi ji has packed his vagh nakh.

BTW, perhaps a coincidence, but, that picture of Biden ji and Modi ji is very similar to that of Afzal Khan and Shivaji.

Cant say anything better than this.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 07 Jun 2023 17:41

SSridhar wrote:While saying 'Go to Delhi and see for yourself'. John Kirby also hinted that such issues would be brought up in discussions. I am sure that the Indian side would give suitable replies but as a dear friend, it wouldn't also hesitate to bring up issues such as police violence, human-rights violations, deteriorating democratic norms, Hindu-phobia, religious intolerance etc in the US. Last year, Blinken hinted that Jaishankar brought up those issues with him.

India is 2023 is *much* different than India in the past. PM Modi (and his team) is an excellent leader and quite good at these things. He is also gracious, and nice human being. Here iswhat he tweeted:

Thank you @SpeakerMcCarthy ,@LeaderMcConnell, @SenSchume, and @RepJeffries for the gracious invitation. I am honored to accept and look forward to once again address a Joint Meeting of the Congress. We are proud of our Comprehensive Global Strategic Partnership with the US, built upon the foundation of shared democratic values, strong people-to-people ties, and an unwavering commitment to global peace and prosperity.
From US Speaker:
It is my honor to invite @PMOIndia @narendramodi to address a Joint Meeting of Congress on Thursday, June 22nd.

This will be an opportunity to celebrate the enduring friendship between the United States and India and speak to the global challenges our countries both face.

He is not only going to meet POTUS, opposition leaders, business leaders, professors, CEOS, and scientists (like us

).

Rest assured he has *good* advisers and know how to talk. He is extremely respected here.
He certainly does *not* need advice from 'experts' like Rahul Gandhi, or Rana Ayuub or BRF clique. /sigh/

PLEASE! Let some sanity return to this forum. Majority (not all) old tired 'arguments' going on here are as silly/tool-kittish and stale as Rahul Gandhi's or NYT editorial. SERIOUSLY!

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 07 Jun 2023 17:52

Y I Patel wrote: Disha unfortunately this exchange with Amber is becoming blue on blue at a personal level...

Yes, it is quite ugly. (unfortunately he is not alone - these kind of took-kits work with their bots) Quite despicable. I ignore most but have to admit, some are Rahul Gandhi type

logic..

"Garcetti must resign ".... "We don't get visa" ..

. [Arree Baba if there is no one at US embassy who will give you Visa???...

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 07 Jun 2023 18:28

Amber G. wrote:
Y I Patel wrote: Disha unfortunately this exchange with Amber is becoming blue on blue at a personal level...
Yes, it is quite ugly. (unfortunately he is not alone - these kind of took-kits work with their bots) Quite despicable. I ignore most but have to admit, some are Rahul Gandhi type logic..

"Garcetti must resign ".... "We don't get visa" .. . [Arree Baba if there is no one at US embassy who will give you Visa???...

You’re suspect.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 07 Jun 2023 20:06

sanman wrote:Pakistani journalist questions Whitehouse spokesman on "democratic backsliding in India"
...

I guess Pakistanis have no sense of irony at all.

Pretty standard diplomatic speak.. indian journos (if & when they ask) about Pakistans state sponsoring of terrorism have received the same response.

For the US all of its relationships 'stand on their own'.. when it comes to others using the same rationale, it becomes 'with us or against us'

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 07 Jun 2023 20:33

Amber G. wrote:PLEASE! Let some sanity return to this forum.

Genuine Q: what would have us (BRF) do so that this "sanity" is returned? I'm labelling this as a genuine question since I'm not quite sure how to respond to standard diplomatic protocol followed by the US. Yes, they are signalling at a level higher than usual, and India is engaging accordingly. But a forum like BRF is meant to go beyond the rah-rah headlines and try to find the undercurrents. Sometimes, we may drift in the wrong direction, but we cannot stop trying. Coming to this visit, we've seen red carpets being rolled out before, this is not India's first rodeo. Hence the muted reception, to put it mildly.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 07 Jun 2023 20:54

Breaking news: Air India flight from New Delhi to San Francisco makes emergency landing in Russia

An Air India plane flying from New Delhi to San Francisco landed in Russia after it developed an engine problem, officials said on Wednesday.

The plane, carrying 216 passengers and 16 crew members, landed safely at Russia’s Magadan airport in the country’s far east on Tuesday, Air India said in a statement.

a U.S. State Department spokesman, said that American citizens were likely on the flight but could not immediately confirm how many. He said his understanding was that Air India would be sending a replacement aircraft to Russia so the passengers could continue their travel to the U.S.

"We are continuing to monitor the situation,” Patel said.

The airline said a plane from Mumbai, flight AI195, was expected to arrive in Magadan at 6:30 a.m. Thursday local time.

Update: Air India ferry flight leaves for Magadan, Russia. The flight will carry the stranded passengers onwards to San Francisco, US. The flight from Delhi to San Francisco had to land in Russia over technical issues.

AirIndia Statement:

(Some of us noticed the ' carrying food part' and photos of people sleeping on floor in some gym - in an old school building)..
(FWIW: My son took that flight just few days ago)

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 07 Jun 2023 21:47

Good decision by AI pilots to land safely in Magadan. Its precisely for unforeseen emergencies like this that routes follow landmass with habited zones and airstrips. (BTW what route do US airlines fly SFO-BOM avoiding Russia?)

It will get sorted out in a day or two if AI is allowed to take passengers fwd from Magadan or like the NBC reporter said, if US insists that they be flown back to Mumbai (to re-do security & immigration checks - which US has the right to stick to if they wish) then these pax will reach SFO only after several days, perhaps up to a week.

What did some of you notice on the 'carrying food part' ?!

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 07 Jun 2023 23:36

yensoy wrote:
Actually the US visa is a very reasonable thing.

It is going to get better.. per US embassy it is their first priority.
News Flash today :

The U.S. Mission in India held its seventh annual Student Visa Day countrywide today with Consular Officers from New Delhi, Chennai, Hyderabad, Kolkata, and Mumbai interviewing almost 3,500 Indian student visa applicants

: US Statement.

Also just in from Indian Embassy in DC:

Just in: India US launch Strategic Trade Dialogue (IUSSTD); Dialogue to focus on collaboration in critical domains such as semiconductors, space, telecom, quantum, AI,

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 Jun 2023 23:50

H1Bs anyone?

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 08 Jun 2023 00:09

There shouldn't be this obsession( among many Indians) of going to the US, and getting a visa for that. Particularly in light of all the violence in the US with guns and mass shootings.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Jun 2023 02:01

Cyrano wrote:
What did some of you notice on the 'carrying food part' ?!

AI plane now flying - "carrying food etc" for passenger ..(Can't Russia/locals supply it?)

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Jun 2023 02:17

Varoon Shekhar wrote:There shouldn't be this obsession( among many Indians) of going to the US, and getting a visa for that. Particularly in light of all the violence in the US with guns and mass shootings.

But there is. It benefits the US industry and helps Indian foreign currency reserves through repatriation. It is in the interest of both countries for a bilateral deal on this instead of clubbing it with wider immigration reforms which are highly contentious, politically speaking, in the US.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Jun 2023 02:19

RoyG wrote:You’re suspect.

Correctly so in the case of certain Indian-origin public figures and politicians in the US. It is better to take the whole discussion to "Understanding the US" thread, IMHO.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Jun 2023 02:23

arshyam wrote:
Amber G. wrote:PLEASE! Let some sanity return to this forum.
Genuine Q: what would have us (BRF) do so that this "sanity" is returned? I'm labelling this as a genuine question since I'm not quite sure how to respond to standard diplomatic protocol followed by the US. Yes, they are signalling at a level higher than usual, and India is engaging accordingly. But a forum like BRF is meant to go beyond the rah-rah headlines and try to find the undercurrents. Sometimes, we may drift in the wrong direction, but we cannot stop trying. Coming to this visit, we've seen red carpets being rolled out before, this is not India's first rodeo. Hence the muted reception, to put it mildly.

@arshaym gaaru, people are constrained in various ways to say what they want to say, especially in this dhaga. I wouldn't give much weight to long-time PIOs of the US (I include myself in that set). People who are in India have to counter calls for "greater Indo-US cooperation" by asking hard questions like "What is in it for India and for me?"

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 08 Jun 2023 02:34

@Vayutuvanji, I think it goes beyond just what’s in it for me and India, we’re guessing at the intentions or rather any changes in intentions of the other party/parties involved. I understand it’s not a monolith on both sides and the motivations lie in a spectrum, but trends can and should be discussed in this forum. If not here then where?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Jun 2023 03:00

Of course they should be discussed, and not just here.

But the discussion would be more interesting if the "other side" did some homework and came up with good analysis and counter arguments instead of just posting news clippings and asking us to dance along because for them apparently that's good enough.

I'd be very interested to continue this debate if the level goes above /sigh/ing and making it personal.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 08 Jun 2023 03:02

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 08 Jun 2023 09:22

The grapevine is that pappu was secretly summoned to the whitehouse. So the regime change operation is fully in high gear

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Jun 2023 09:59

500 odd pages from the Clinton Library:

https://clinton.presidentiallibraries.u ... show/57569

Download a searchable pdf. India is referenced. Keep in mind Billy boy is talking to a drunk/stoned Yelzin.

Recall India resuscitated Sukhoi (also Dassault).

________________________________________

No US Prez has, is, or will support the rise of India. Not happening. They claim to support it because they have no options. Biden is an excellent example. Recall, just a few months ago, Joe Biden called Mudi "shaky"!! That he said that is OK, do not hold it against Biden or the US - displaying cards is good.

Clintons. All they are interested in is converting all Sanatanis to some form of Christianity. They think they will enter Heaven to thunderous applause!!!

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 08 Jun 2023 10:13

Strategic relationships like India-US are obviously not based on goodness of heart and undying friendship, but hard reason and interests. Modi sarkar has decided to dramatically scale-up various aspects of this relationship because it benefits India and is in our national interest.

It's fine to scrutinize the who/how/what/why of specific statements, meetings, interactions etc of the Americans...good timepass. But obviously the Indian government is doing this a lot more seriously with much better resources and information to arrive at rational decisions.

There is little value in going down a rabbit-hole of connecting minute details that then get conjured up into untenable conclusions and conspiracy theories.

Facing facts and figures is also a requirement. The India-US partnership is expanding in many areas, including investment, manufacturing, defense, etc...and India is playing all these to our gain. The overall economic/trade relationship is also accelerating rapidly. Get used to it.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 08 Jun 2023 10:23

NRao wrote:No US Prez has, is, or will support the rise of India. Not happening. They claim to support it because they have no options. Biden is an excellent example. Recall, just a few months ago, Joe Biden called Mudi "shaky"!! That he said that is OK, do not hold it against Biden or the US - displaying cards is good.

Clintons. All they are interested in is converting all Sanatanis to some form of Christianity. They think they will enter Heaven to thunderous applause!!!

All said and done, who cares as long as India is able to play India-US relations to our interest based upon whatever underlying cause.

The US does not "support the rise of China" but has been regularly importing something like $700 bn/yr of goods from China. So, I'm totally fine if the US "does not support the rise of India" but gets into a similar position with us.

On the other hand, if the theory is that somehow "US is supporting China all along" and they are joined at the hip, then apply the same logic to India as well and take it for what it is worth.

Neither Modi nor his government gives a flying duck about Biden or Clinton or their religious views. No matter how much abuse they have heaped on Modi, they will all get free hugs from him (the "hug store" never runs out). Everything else will be carefully thought through and implemented only in India's national interest.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Jun 2023 11:07

Varoon Shekhar wrote:There shouldn't be this obsession( among many Indians) of going to the US, and getting a visa for that. Particularly in light of all the violence in the US with guns and mass shootings.

If these guys feel that they have nothing to contribute to their motherland, they should go right ahead and leave and never come back

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 08 Jun 2023 11:12

chetak wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:There shouldn't be this obsession( among many Indians) of going to the US, and getting a visa for that. Particularly in light of all the violence in the US with guns and mass shootings.
If these guys feel that they have nothing to contribute to their motherland, they should go right ahead and leave and never come back

Again, reality is a bee-aat-ch. I think some of the Indians that don't go to the US have a more unhealthy obsession with (the negative side of) the US, than the obsession of those who come here for whatever reason.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Jun 2023 17:07

vijayk wrote:The grapevine is that pappu was secretly summoned to the whitehouse. So the regime change operation is fully in high gear

https://twitter.com/Starboy2079/status/ ... 87649?s=20 ---> As per ET report, Rahul Gandhi secretly visited White House and met US state officials.

If this news is true then the meaning of it is -

1. White house is carrying out regime change operations in India
2. Rahul Gandhi might be White house candidate for the 2024 elections
3. CIA, Deep state controlled media, tech giants, Soros funded NGO will interfere in Indian elections
4. Did some negotiations happen between White House and RaGa?

What did RaGa offer them in return for getting support from them?

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 08 Jun 2023 17:20

Vayutuvan wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:There shouldn't be this obsession( among many Indians) of going to the US, and getting a visa for that. Particularly in light of all the violence in the US with guns and mass shootings.
But there is. It benefits the US industry and helps Indian foreign currency reserves through repatriation. It is in the interest of both countries for a bilateral deal on this instead of clubbing it with wider immigration reforms which are highly contentious, politically speaking, in the US.

True, but it's this seeming thoughtlessness while seeking to go to the US, that is absolutely appalling. There have already been many Indians who have been killed in gun violence in the US, whether mass shootings, or in plain robbery. Is there no thought or concern about this in goggle eyed Indians and their US visa ecstasy? Just think, weigh, consider, that's all that can be asked for. India is better off than it was 40-50 years ago, there is more growth and development than ever before.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 08 Jun 2023 17:31

Varoon Shekhar wrote:
Vayutuvan wrote:
But there is. It benefits the US industry and helps Indian foreign currency reserves through repatriation. It is in the interest of both countries for a bilateral deal on this instead of clubbing it with wider immigration reforms which are highly contentious, politically speaking, in the US.
True, but it's this seeming thoughtlessness while seeking to go to the US, that is absolutely appalling. There have already been many Indians who have been killed in gun violence in the US, whether mass shootings, or in plain robbery. Is there no thought or concern about this in goggle eyed Indians and their US visa ecstasy? Just think, weigh, consider, that's all that can be asked for. India is better off than it was 40-50 years ago, there is more growth and development than ever before.

Targeted killings of Indians is rare. Indians tend to be assaulted or killed because they have traditionally run convenience stores and do can driving. Both are risky because of location and clientele. The US is also becoming more unsafe overall for everyone.

Jealousy is increasing though as we are capturing more leadership positions. We also do not look out for each other in the workplace like the other religious and racial groups so it makes it worse.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 08 Jun 2023 17:44

Rakesh wrote:..

false friends, enemies, proximity, ityadi... india wants the world to represent the aranya, a world though wild that can be negotiated with and peacefully coexisted besides with all manners of woodland critters, the outside world wants the world to be a garden, a controlled environment, and their relationship is as antagonistic as that of the aranya of india and the desert outlook of the mid-east that was posited by rajiv malhotra.

the west will always try these underhand and overhand tricks, it would not be personal, it would just be the nature of the top dog chair, and the only combat is FUD, arguing about sock puppets once every 4 years... and every moment leading up to it, might satiate juveniles shrieking after every shiny gewgaw, but the state machinery marches regardless, it is this machinery that is the real target and its core demographic, the american population must always be kept divided by exploiting any and all grievances, real and imagined.