India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 23 Nov 2017 09:28

US Senate’s pass to LeT may’ve emboldened Pakistan to release Hafiz Saeed

WASHINGTON: Pakistan's release of 26/11 massacre principal Hafiz Saeed+ , almost on the anniversary of the carnage in Mumbai, follows the United States taking the heat off Islamabad insofar as action against the Lashkar-e-Taiba was concerned.
In a significant development earlier this month, the US Congress changed a provision in a defence bill+ that would have required Islamabad to take steps to "significantly disrupt'' the activities of both LeT and the Haqqani network.
It restricted the requirement only to the Haqqani group. National Defence Authorisation Act 2018, which would have required the US Secretary of Defence to certify that Pakistan is acting against both Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and the Haqqani network, was changed at the conference to reconcile the House and Senate versions of the bill, and LeT was removed.
Delinking LeT from the Haqqani group gave Pakistan the wiggle room to meet the more urgent American demand of throwing the Haqqani group under the bus while protecting its more immediate and lucrative "Kashmir masla" (issue). Kashmir issue constitutes the Pakistani military's bread and butter and allows it to put its hand in the national treasury and budget at will.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Nov 2017 13:23

Meanwhile officially -
https://rewardsforjustice.net/english/hafiz_saeed.html

Information that brings to justice…

Up to $10 Million Reward

Hafiz Mohammad Saeed is a former professor of Arabic and Engineering, as well as the founding member of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a radical Ahl-e-Hadith Islamist organization dedicated to installing Islamist rule over parts of India and Pakistan, and its military branch, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba. Saeed is suspected of masterminding numerous terrorist attacks, including the 2008 Mumbai attacks, which resulted in the deaths of 166 people, including six American citizens.

The Republic of India has issued an Interpol Red Corner Notice against Saeed for his role in the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks. Additionally, the United States Department of the Treasury has designated Saeed as a Specially Designated National under Executive Order 13224. Saeed was also individually designated by the United Nations under UNSCR 1267 in December 2008.

Lashkar-e-Tayyiba was designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization in December 2001. In April 2008, the United States designated Jamaat-ud-Dawa as a Foreign Terrorist Organization; similarly, the United Nations declared Jamaat-ud-Dawa a terrorist organization in December 2008.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 23 Nov 2017 13:30

Its done! Welcome Kenbhai Juster

Ambassador Ken Juster‏ @USAmbIndia
https://twitter.com/USAmbIndia/status/9 ... 1774342144

Honored to have presented credentials to #PresidentKovind at @rashtrapatibhvn today. Thank you President Kovind for your very warm and gracious welcome to India. Looking forward to the next chapter in strengthening #USIndia relations. #USIndia70 #USIndiaDosti

Nice introductory short video of KJ replete with him in the Indian Cricket Jersey by the US Embassy: https://twitter.com/USAndIndia/status/9 ... 3267146752

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Nov 2017 13:34

Some news items:
Hafiz Saeed Release: Time to 'Rescind' Pakistan’s Major Non-NATO Ally Status, Says US Expert

"In a word, the release is an outrage," Alyssa Ayres, a former State Department official and currently with the Council on Foreign Relations told PTI after Lahore High Court ordered that Saeed be set free.

Trump administration says Hafiz Saeed a global terrorist declared by UN, US

New Delhi: A day after a Pakistan court ordered the release of Mumbai- terror attack mastermind Hafiz Saeed, the Trump administration said that the Jamaat-ud-Dawah chief is a terrorist designated by the United Nations as well as the United States.
"The US is aware of media reports that Pakistan (court) ordered a release of Lashkar-e-Taiba leader Hafiz Saeed from house arrest," -- a US state department spokesperson
Saeed was declared a global terrorist by the US as well as the United Nations in 2008.

Time for India (and the rest of civilized world) to issue stern threat and then follow it up by Brahmos if the terrorist is not handed over.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Nov 2017 17:10

long read but shows the paw prints of the agencies in SV and google

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence ... 36451a959e

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 23 Nov 2017 23:14

Amber G. wrote:Some news items:
Hafiz Saeed Release: Time to 'Rescind' Pakistan’s Major Non-NATO Ally Status, Says US Expert
"In a word, the release is an outrage," Alyssa Ayres, a former State Department official and currently with the Council on Foreign Relations told PTI after Lahore High Court ordered that Saeed be set free.
Trump administration says Hafiz Saeed a global terrorist declared by UN, US
New Delhi: A day after a Pakistan court ordered the release of Mumbai- terror attack mastermind Hafiz Saeed, the Trump administration said that the Jamaat-ud-Dawah chief is a terrorist designated by the United Nations as well as the United States.
"The US is aware of media reports that Pakistan (court) ordered a release of Lashkar-e-Taiba leader Hafiz Saeed from house arrest," -- a US state department spokesperson
Saeed was declared a global terrorist by the US as well as the United Nations in 2008.
Time for India (and the rest of civilized world) to issue stern threat and then follow it up by Brahmos if the terrorist is not handed over.

We all know that’s not going to happen. The State Dept. will encourage GoI going down the International legal path which will be a waste of time. The time for action ended in Nov. 2008 when a weak GoI was convinced by the Bush administration to take the International legal route. The same will happen now. Lives were lost and the pentagon is in charge of US policy in the subcontinent even if Americans get killed.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Nov 2017 06:57

Now that he is out of protective custody.... there's a $10M reward out there. I think his life expectancy is short.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 26 Nov 2017 00:06

US Dept of State site Press statement:
On the Release of Hafiz Saeed

On the Release of Hafiz Saeed

Share
Press Statement
Heather Nauert
Department Spokesperson
Washington, DC
November 24, 2017

The United States is deeply concerned that Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT) leader Hafiz Saeed has been released from house arrest in Pakistan. LeT is a designated Foreign Terrorist Organization responsible for the death of hundreds of innocent civilians in terrorist attacks, including a number of American citizens. The Pakistani government should make sure that he is arrested and charged for his crimes.

In May 2008, the United States Department of the Treasury designated Saeed as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist under Executive Order 13224. Saeed was also individually designated by the United Nations under UNSCR 1267 in December 2008 following the November 2008 Mumbai attack in which 166 people, including six American citizens, were killed. LeT and several of its front organizations, leaders, and operatives remain under both State Department and Treasury Department sanctions. Since 2012, the United States has offered a U.S. $10 million‎ reward for information that brings Saeed to justice.

Does India has any bounty on him? Is there any case against him in any Indian court? Are there any explicit warnings (with consequences) given to Pak, officially and publicly by India or any other nations/UN..
Can some we post these things here with links for record.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Nov 2017 00:28

Amber GJi, whom is US trying to fool? If they are so concerned about the Hafeez pigLeT's release, why did they remove the rider on linking Hafeez pigLeT with military/economic goodies to its TSPA/ISI munnas? Unless TSP feels the pinch, they won't act.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Nov 2017 06:01

CRamS: "Seal Team 6" is better than any "riders". Or desi answers. Time for India to establish a reputation in these things. Isn't it pathetic that India expects the US to get this turkey for murdering 6 US citjens, whereas India does nothing but

after 160 Indians were killed in the same attack, in addition to the thousands in Kashmir. Hafeez Saeed must go to Houristan, sooner than later. Far better that he is out of jail.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Nov 2017 06:44

I think only a mumbai mid day newspaper published
Some hints post 26/11 that some of the victims in
Taj were brutally tortured or mutilated . Anyone can
Shed light on it?

Needless to say govt hushed it up lest public anger boil over

periaswamy · Post by **periaswamy** » 26 Nov 2017 07:13

Singha ji,

Israelis tortured during 26/11

Mumbai doctors who examined the bodies of the victims of the Muslim terror massacre said the victims were tortured before being slaughtered.

"Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks," a doctor who performed a post-mortem told the Indian news website Rediff.com.

"It was clear that they were killed on Wednesday. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.

disha · Post by **disha** » 26 Nov 2017 09:33

Actually it will be great for Hafiz Suar Sayeed to become the PM of Bakistan and go around shaking hands around the world., and talk about Peace from UN.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 26 Nov 2017 17:54

White House has come out with a separate tough statement on Hafiz Saeed release. Don't have it yet, but Republic is reporting...

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 26 Nov 2017 18:58

Why India Should Be Wary of the Quad

US President Donald Trump and his Secretary of State Rex Tillerson have drawn up an overarching vision of the policy they have in mind to replace the now abandoned “pivot.” They are pointedly wooing New Delhi into what could well be a military alliance. Trump’s effusive remarks about India and the pointed re-christening of the Asia-Pacific region as the Indo-Pacific are the soft sell. Like it or not, or hide it or not, the term now seems to be a means of including India in the military calculations of US strategy in the Pacific.

There is a broader issue here as well. Where the US seems to have lost its vision in the mindlessness of “America First”, China has categorically laid out its ambitions for the next 30 years. By 2035, it aims to become a global innovation leader and remove poverty totally from the country, and by 2050, an overall global leader and “a great modern socialist country.” For this, China has laid out a grand plan that it is pursuing and is offering its model of a single-party authoritarian state as against the multi-party liberal democratic model which, to go by the experiences of the UK and US, is clearly faltering.

The only power that can effectively balance China is the US and the world can’t be sure where it’s headed. Even with its great endowments and abilities, the current situation in the US does not generate much confidence. Unlike the seemingly united and aggressive posture that China is taking, there is an intense and almost violent conflict of ideas within the US about who and what America is all about. In such circumstances, it would be hazardous to depend on the US for an effective leadership of the coalition needed to balance China.

Manoj Joshi is a Distinguished Fellow, Observer Research Foundation

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 26 Nov 2017 19:06

JE Menon wrote:White House has come out with a separate tough statement on Hafiz Saeed release. Don't have it yet, but Republic is reporting...

All optics. Just playing the usual good cop bad cop routine. And the roles are swapped depending on the party.

In case of India White House/POTUS "tries"to play up the warmth and "natural allies, largest democracy" bonhomie, while SD/Pentagon/Congress or whatever plays tough and some Alphabet soup organisation and EJs will rant and rave about "religious freedom".

In case of Bakis, The Deep state "cushions" the impact of any "punitive measures", while the POTUS/White House and a few senators get to voice some critical views suggesting that GOTUS is reading the riot act to the Bakis.

Getting suckered into this rhetoric would be naïve to the point of foolishness.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 26 Nov 2017 19:11

The Quadrilateral: Is it an alliance or an alignment?

It is India’s association with the forum which gives credibility to the new geopolitical concept of the Indo-Pacific. In this sense, India has the opportunity to shape the regional security architecture through its role in the quad not as an ally but as a partner. The objective must remain the creation of a multi-polar Asia with multilateral processes to assure mutual security to all stake-holders. It is only an open, inclusive, transparent and balanced regional security architecture in Asia which can be a credible guarantee of enduring peace and security in our region.

Shyam Saran is a former foreign secretary and is senior fellow, CPRThe views expressed are personal

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Nov 2017 19:18

ShauryaT wrote:Why India Should Be Wary of the Quad
. . . the pointed re-christening of the Asia-Pacific region as the Indo-Pacific are the soft sell.

I don't understand why this reference to 'Indo-Pacific' is being suddenly blown out of proportion. It has been in vogue from sometime around end-2011 when Australia, beginning to realize the significance of India, requested the US to change the nomenclature as part of its annual Strategic Review Meeting under Ausmin. Ever since, the US has made no bones about it and India, Australia & Japan have followed suit for quite a few years now.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Nov 2017 20:43

UlanBatori wrote:CRamS: "Seal Team 6" is better than any "riders". Or desi answers. Time for India to establish a reputation in these things. Isn't it pathetic that India expects the US to get this turkey for murdering 6 US citjens, whereas India does nothing but after 160 Indians were killed in the same attack, in addition to the thousands in Kashmir. Hafeez Saeed must go to Houristan, sooner than later. Far better that he is out of jail.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

But I do think there is some merit in India trying to use US to get TSP to behave. Its a low-cost, less bloody affair. Look ever since Trump announced his new policy, see how TSP has started Guboing. So much so that they are willing to throw their Haqqani assets under the bus, at least on the face of it. Furthermore, that TSP agreed to do this after US let go off India-specific pigLeTs shows all the more how scared TSP is of US linking goodies to India-specific pigLeTs. Bottom line is that anybody who thinks (and there are many here) that US has no leverage over TSP is smoking high octane pot. US can bring TSP to its knees in a heartbeat without firing a shot.

So I guess successive Indian govts, including BJP would like to use US to throttle and cut the umbilical chord between TSP state and its India-specific pigLeTs. Theoretically, it can be done: escalation in the ladder of sanctions against this abomination with clear benchmarks. (And mind you, were India a white Christian country facing this kind of an onslaught from TSP, it would have been done a long time ago, none of the crap arguments we keep hearing now). Coming back to India's expectations, once the chord between TSP and its pigLeTs is cut, then any so called "non state actors" can easily annihilated by the Indian army at the LoC and elsewhere. It will be a cake walk. Its not TSP's pigLeTs that pose any threat to India, its TSPA/ISI through their pigLeTs that pose a threat to India.

So yes, while I can be as critical of Indian govt of not taking any action against TSPA, I also see merit in the low cost option of using US to come down on TSPA/ISI.

periaswamy · Post by **periaswamy** » 27 Nov 2017 05:45

There is still no statement on pakistan in the whitehouse.gov website -- if it does not show up by end of business tomorrow, the whole thing is a con job on India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Nov 2017 09:27

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/26/tech ... v=top-news

well finally a India article on NYT that is not caste-cow-curry-communalism-modibadbad

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Nov 2017 07:04

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 01 Dec 2017 13:46

Barak Obama in India right now and talking... (he will also visit China and France).
Barack Obama to address town hall in Delhi

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 01 Dec 2017 17:50

Why do so many Indians continue to treat this man as some kind of A list celebrity?

Instead of meeting him personally Modi should have just sent some junior minister.

New Delhi: Former US President Barack Obama said today that he had "privately" told Prime Minister Narendra Modi that a country should not be divided on sectarian lines and emphasised how the Indian society needed to cherish that Muslims in the country identify themselves as Indians which is not common for minorities in many other countries.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.ndtv ... ai-rum=off

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2017 19:48

sunnyP wrote:Why do so many Indians continue to treat this man as some kind of A list celebrity?

Instead of meeting him personally Modi should have just sent some junior minister.

New Delhi: Former US President Barack Obama said today that he had "privately" told Prime Minister Narendra Modi that a country should not be divided on sectarian lines and emphasised how the Indian society needed to cherish that Muslims in the country identify themselves as Indians which is not common for minorities in many other countries.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.ndtv ... ai-rum=off

Says the guy who divided his country every which way.

He tells something privately and leaks it publicly, shows his agenda.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 01 Dec 2017 20:27

CRamS wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:CRamS: "Seal Team 6" is better than any "riders". Or desi answers. Time for India to establish a reputation in these things. Isn't it pathetic that India expects the US to get this turkey for murdering 6 US citjens, whereas India does nothing but after 160 Indians were killed in the same attack, in addition to the thousands in Kashmir. Hafeez Saeed must go to Houristan, sooner than later. Far better that he is out of jail.
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

But I do think there is some merit in India trying to use US to get TSP to behave. Its a low-cost, less bloody affair.

1. If there were no wishes, then everyone would be a caveman, its not like beggars can't wish, if they wish to then they need to dust themselves off too and get working to fulfil their wishes
2. There is nothing such as low cost, low cost of men is paid through the EMI of civilians and weak image of nation. What more do we need to take pakistan? i think the only thing is guts and spine in our political leadership

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2017 22:21

CRamS wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:CRamS: "Seal Team 6" is better than any "riders". Or desi answers. Time for India to establish a reputation in these things. Isn't it pathetic that India expects the US to get this turkey for murdering 6 US citjens, whereas India does nothing but after 160 Indians were killed in the same attack, in addition to the thousands in Kashmir. Hafeez Saeed must go to Houristan, sooner than later. Far better that he is out of jail.
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
.

Actually beggars are riding horses and chariots.

J&K is the key. Eliminating the terrorists there (so far 200+) and restoring peace is the bonus of the PDP+BJP govt there.

One should do what one can do.

Waiting for Godot or manna ends up with starvation.

Once J&K is quiet, the Pak raisins will get into a pullao and eaten up.

Then its matter of implosion as TSP does Rumplestiltskin.

Relax there are Telugus running the strategy.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2017 22:22

Also think the former US president with a Nobel Prize is reduced to slurping omelets like Mushy in Delhi.
That's riding a chariot.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 01 Dec 2017 22:27

Looks like Tillerson will be out and will be replaced by Pompeo(tea party guy, currently head of CIA).

What, if anything does it mean for India? Here are a couple of points that come to my mind:

Tillerson is a MNC guy who was CEO of EXXON mobil. As such, we may guess that he is bright enough and has some appreciation for business and tech skills of India, as well as its more-or-less transparent political, accounting , legal and other systems (unlike China). Causing him to lean towards India vs China, as we have seen.

With Pompeo, we have what looks like a purely political guy. I don't know how bright he is. He repeats the standard anti-Muslim tea party bromides like Trump. In practice these seem to translate to making US the munna of the Saudi-led Sunni axis against Iran. I don't see this aspect helping India at all, given that we are forging a strategic relationship with Iran with Chabahar, not to speak of lucrative business ties with the Islamic republic.

Past administrations and their state departments have (despite applying lots of pressure) understood that India can't and won't join the Iran-phobic chorus that Saudis, US and Israel have led. Will the new SD affect this understanding?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2017 22:31

Could be Haley too.

periaswamy · Post by **periaswamy** » 01 Dec 2017 22:32

That sounds about right -- any CIA guy in charge is going to tilt towards KSA/Sunni theocracies, and take a harder line on Iran. George Bush Sr.
started this Saudi tilt with CIA involvement when he was head of CIA -- his family's and admin's connections to Saudis are well known. Tillerson is just being shunted out because he did "produce results" with NoKo, I would think...as if this Pompeo guy will do any better. USA has lost Asia to Chinese hegemony, so that horse has left the stables.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 01 Dec 2017 22:34

ramana wrote:Could be Haley too.

I suppose, but all the MSM is claiming that it won't be Namrata and it will be Mike.

I would expect (hope) Namrata to understand India's perspective. But given current information, we should prepare for Pompeo.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 01 Dec 2017 23:58

US exporting dirty fuel to already pollution-choked India

HIGHLIGHTS
* US oil refineries that are unable to sell a dirty fuel waste - petcoke- at home are exporting vast quantities of it to India instead
* In 2016, the US sent more than 8 million metric tons of petcoke to India
* Petcoke contains more planet-warming carbon and far more heart and lung-damaging sulphur

NEW DELHI : US oil refineries that are unable to sell a dirty fuel waste product at home are exporting vast quantities of it to India instead.
Petroleum coke, the bottom-of-the-barrel leftover from refining Canadian tar sands crude and other heavy oils, is cheaper and burns hotter than coal. But it also contains more planet-warming carbon and far more heart and lung-damaging sulphur - a key reason few American companies use it.
Refineries instead are sending it around the world, especially to energy-hungry India, which last year got almost a fourth of all the fuel-grade 'petcoke' the US shipped out, an Associated Press investigation found. In 2016, the US sent more than 8 million metric tons of petcoke to India. That's about 20 times more than in 2010, and enough to fill the Empire State Building eight times.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 02 Dec 2017 06:27

^^^Why are we importing it?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 02 Dec 2017 06:29

^^Pompeo is a better bet for us. He's not running for higher office. Haley will be far more anti -Iran because she wants to be VP

periaswamy · Post by **periaswamy** » 02 Dec 2017 06:37

Cosmo_R: ^^^Why are we importing it?

One of its primary uses seems to be for building roads -- not sure the Indian newspaper report has it right about it being used as fuel for coal plants. AFAIK, you need special plants to use petro-coke for a power plant. Seems more likely that this is being imported for the road construction projects.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 02 Dec 2017 23:34

This sent the BP up a notch:
As Obama Warns Modi, Ivanka Given Lavish Welcome in India

"Obama picked up on India’s main current social issue when he said that, along with other countries, it should ensure that a Muslim population felt integrated. “That is something that should be cherished and nurtured,” he said."

http://www.newsweek.com/obama-warns-mod ... dia-728327

Question: Did Obama say the same thing to his Indonesian hosts (he grew up in Indonesia) about nurturing and cherishing Hindus in Bali?
Or, Latinos in America? Where under his watch more deportations took place than under Bush?

Under that professorial veneer Obama harbors strong likes and a view that Muslims are persecuted everywhere

This article first appeared in
https://ridingtheelephant.wordpress.com ... ays-obama/

Where he changed the header to:

"India’s Muslims should be “cherished and nurtured” says Obama

Elliot is the BritCommie who I think wrote for WAPO. Usual 'White Mughal' stuff

https://ridingtheelephant.wordpress.com/about/

periaswamy · Post by **periaswamy** » 02 Dec 2017 23:54

Obama's paid invitation was done by some of the INC-pasand congress party lutyens elite -- Obama will speak anywhere for cash, as is the norm for ex-presidents. There is this picture of the loser MMS standing behind like some sort of coy bearded girlfriend looking admiringly at Obama -- picture seems to be from some sort of Event for Obama before or after his town hall appearance. Lots of the Lutyens types in the background and foreground (saavugrakki ghose).

"Oh that Obama is so domineering and powerful, like madam soniaji, Maybe I should fetch his tea or slippers to make him like me."-Manmohan Singh

I suspect this invite was done by some INC pasand entity to generate exactly this kind of headlines, it would seem, and that too right in time for Gujarat elections. What amuses me is that these INC jokers think that any of this will affect the views of the Indian polity about the ruling party -- there are many things that will, but headlines in these english newspapers about "kammunal modi and BJP" is not in that list.

mappunni · Post by **mappunni** » 03 Dec 2017 07:55

saavugrakki ghose

Sethalum She will come back as Pisas !!

Avtar Singh · Post by **Avtar Singh** » 04 Dec 2017 04:24

What a bunch of Toadys.
Let us hope it is sunset years for these people.