India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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bala
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by bala »

Yes, the US is getting progressively dumber by the day and the Deep State is getting more ruthless. If there is no immigration then I believe that the US will decay tremendously. Immigrants are keeping the system going (they have to try extra hard) despite racists claiming otherwise about their excellence and past glory. WW-2 helped the US catapult itself in the world. It remains to be seen how long this cozy setup continues.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Najunamar »

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-trad ... p_catchall

Psyops? Perhaps US has thrown the towel on overt pressure and resorting to subterfuge to put the brakes on India sourcing more oil from Russia. Note there is no such efforts against China (Xiden is scared of the grand Pooh bear).
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

g.sarkar wrote:
Cyrano wrote:JS has given us a new flavour of "ghar me ghus kar marengey" ;)
As he said "thank you for the advice and suggestions in your question...", see the reaction on Blinken on his left. The good Dr. is soft spoken old school diplomat. This was not expected.
Gautam
For me, having known the good Dr. and how effective he is in doing his homework this was expected. The amount of Russian import (compared to Europe) was brought to US attention quite a while ago - and there was *no* excuse for the person who asked the question to be that ignorant...that point was brought home like only good Dr. can.

Meanwhile, Even WSJ is seeing the headline - and asking questions -- what is being pointed out by EAM/
US imports 16% of uranium needs from Russia
Today's oped in WSJ
Stop Buying Uranium From Russia
Why does the U.S. rely on adversaries for nuclear power?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

Also - Good Dr.is not shy about talking about human rights.
"People are entitled to have views about us. We also are entitled to have views about their lobbies and vote banks. We will not be reticent. We also have views on other people's human rights, particularly when it pertains to our community,"
Image
India too has concerns about human rights in US, says Jaishankar
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Mort Walker wrote: NYC spent billions on security after 9/11. No police or working security cameras at subway stations mean there has been tremendous corruption in NYC to siphon security funds.
in addition, did somebody hack the cameras at that particular station, I wonder. the perp knew exactly when to do it. coincidentally nine of the cameras at that station were not working.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

bala wrote:Yes, the US is getting progressively dumber by the day and the Deep State is getting more ruthless. If there is no immigration then I believe that the US will decay tremendously. Immigrants are keeping the system going (they have to try extra hard) despite racists claiming otherwise about their excellence and past glory. WW-2 helped the US catapult itself in the world. It remains to be seen how long this cozy setup continues.
Yes, I agree completely. Just see the foreign students in any university in the US. I remember a large number of foreigners, especially in Masters/doctoral programs, with a small number of native whites and practically no African Americans. But this is going on for a long time. Check the foreign born scientists in the Manhattan Project. NASA too employs a number of foreign born specialists. There was no Indian immigration till the time of President Johnson. Even Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar migrated as a religious teacher. If immigration is stopped, they will still import specialists as their high school education is poor and can not produce the needed engineers and scientists.
Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Gautam ji,

The situation is not as dire. Here are some stats from NSF.

https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2017/nsf ... erview.cfm

(... rest moved to the "Understanding the US" thread)
viewtopic.php?p=2544963#p2544963
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 14 Apr 2022 02:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

Sharing: https://youtu.be/qPyreqnTPxU - something very much of interest to me..
worth watching.
>>Assistant Secretary Satterfield , Secretary Blinken and EAM Dr. S. Jaishankar in conversation with Howard University students, faculty, and leadership as part of the U.S.-India Higher Education Discussion in Washington, D.C., on April 12, 2022.

Some insight into Biden/Modi foreign policy regarding student/science/education exchange between US and India.

Lot of hard work behind lime-light is being done.

.

____****
What I found remarkable these parts coming in joint statement.

>> Some STEM/Education/Science/Medicine related quotes found in joint declaration .
wrt Science, Technology, Cybersecurity, and Space
Reflecting on the positive science and technology cooperation between the two countries, the Ministers welcomed the announcement of a Joint Commission Meeting on Science and Technology in 2022, to discuss future science and technology collaboration.

The Ministers applauded the recent and upcoming meetings of the U.S.-India Cyber Dialogue and the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Working Group to deepen cybersecurity cooperation. They strongly condemned ransomware and other cyber-related crimes and recognized the need to bolster protection of critical networks and infrastructure.

Recalling their countries’ strong tradition of space exploration and endeavors, the Ministers announced the conclusion of a Memorandum of Understanding on Space Situational Awareness and pledged to expand bilateral space cooperation, acknowledging the pivotal role international cooperation plays in the long-term sustainability and safety of the outer-space environment. They applauded the ongoing development of the NASA-ISRO Synthetic Aperture Radar (NISAR) satellite, planned for launch from India in 2023. The NISAR mission will collect data vital to tackling the climate crisis. The Ministers also looked forward to the convening of the next India-U.S. Civil Space Joint Working Group in 2022.

The Ministers expressed appreciation for the continued cooperation between the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and India’s Ministry of Earth Science (MoES) and ISRO in areas such as ocean and fisheries science, meteorology, and earth observation to better understand climate change and save lives through improved weather and ocean modeling and information sharing. In support of climate and disaster resilience goals, the United States and India are driving advancements in climate and monsoon prediction and forecasting through collaborative work in the Indian Ocean. As part of that work, MoES recently launched a joint data portal providing near-real-time public data from the NOAA Research Moored Array for African-Asian-Australian Monsoon Analysis and Prediction (RAMA) and the MoES Ocean Moored Buoy Network for the Northern Indian Ocean (OMNI). The data supports improved monsoon prediction capabilities and sub-seasonal weather forecasting including for the United States, whose weather and atmosphere are impacted by systems that develop in the Indian Ocean. The Ministers also welcomed expansion of collaboration between NOAA and MoES under EKAMSAT program (Enhancing Knowledge of the Arabian Sea Marine Environment through Science and Advanced Technology).
Health sector is also mentioned as:
The Ministers recognized the pivotal role of the U.S.-India partnership in combating the COVID-19 pandemic and other contemporary global health challenges.
Welcoming the remarkable progress made under the Quad Vaccine Partnership to augment the manufacturing capacity of the Biological E facility in India, supported by the U.S. International Development Finance Corporation (DFC), the Ministers committed to expedite delivery of the first batch of vaccines to countries of the Indo-Pacific and beyond and to diversify the basket of vaccines in the context of changes in the global demand and supply landscape.
The Ministers reaffirmed the vital role of secure, resilient, reliable, and diverse supply chains for Critical and Emerging Technologies (CET), and the need to enable regional and global innovation. The Ministers decided to put in place a framework to advance cooperation in CET such as advanced communication technology, artificial intelligence, quantum science, STEM, semi-conductors and biotechnology.
U.S.-India Health Dialogue, the Ministers commended our ongoing collaboration on biomedical research, strengthening regulatory procedures and pandemic preparedness. The Ministers welcomed the signing of an overarching Memorandum of Understanding between India’s Ministry of Health and Family Welfare (MoHFW) and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) to work together to strengthen public health preparedness and response by expanding training on disease surveillance, improve response to and containment of outbreaks, strengthen laboratory networks and diagnostics, enhance pan-respiratory disease surveillance, develop sub-national emergency operation centers, and integrate a “One Health” approach into all public health initiatives.
The Ministers welcomed the renewal of our joint commitment to undertake collaborative research on infectious diseases of global health significance and conclude a Memorandum of Understanding to continue joint support for an Indo-U.S. International Centre for Excellence in Research between the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) of National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR).
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by bala »

In this US-INDIA entanglement on EDU, we in India, need to step back and ask some basic questions. The questions really stems from the past in which Bharat was the leader in EDU for the entire world. Some of the most original thoughts/concepts/ideas came about because of the Inner Journey that India undertook. Today's generation is rather clueless about all of this and glorifies the Western model simply because it is the currency of jobs/stature/etc. Our universities (Nalanda/Taxilla) came before any Western University. So much ground was covered for 1000s of years on various topics, just the logic part of India is par excellent and there is no equivalent in the West. Let me be very clear: India's science/math/medicine/logic/philosophy is the foundation upon which the west built their current system. Even a working Vimana (based on mercury vortex engine - copied by NASA's SERT-1 and SERT-II) was demonstrated prior to the Wright brothers on Bombay's Chowpatty beach by Shivkur Talpade, ie. India was first in flight.

Given this background, what does India need to do. Engagement is one thing. But we need to define who we are and forge our own system for the rest of the world to follow. This is huge task but we have to start somewhere and with single focus devotion make it happen.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

bala ji, don't forget linguistics. Panini showed that a language can be defined mathematically by coming up with a grammar for samskrutam. That and nyaya and its later development navya nyaya which is in noway inferior to Mathematical logic (or Foundations of Mathematics) developed in the west.

That said, we cannot rest on our past laurels. We have to play within the current framework. Better to change it from within than go the adversarial route which China seems to be taking.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

Keep your head low.


The only way in which Napoleon was wrong when he said ‘let China sleep’ is that he should have said India. But the Europeans, including Marx, merely aped the British when it came to India.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

bala wrote:Today's generation is rather clueless about all of this and glorifies the Western model simply because it is the currency of jobs/stature/etc. Our universities (Nalanda/Taxilla) came before any Western University.
...
This is huge task but we have to start somewhere and with single focus devotion make it happen.
There is a proverb in Telugu: maa taatalu nEtulu tagaaru maa mootula vaasana chooDanDi which roughly translates to "Our ancestors drank copious amounts of ghee. If you want proof, smell our mouths."

While it is important to raise the level of self-esteem of today's generation, PR is the least preferred way to do it. We should teach them to neither underestimate nor overestimate their future opponents. Chinese regularly make that mistake vis-a-vis the US. I put it to you that it would only make people lax and retiring.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by hanumadu »

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... TOIDesktop
India too has concerns about human rights in US, says Jaishankar in strong push back
Read it all. :)
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by bala »

It is not about resting on laurels or being adversarial or having head low. This is about forging an identity separate from the West and yes taking help from the past and the present is all par for the course. None of advantages of the current system needs to be abandoned. We need to foster that culture within India that served up leadership (in the past as an example) to the rest of the world. We don't need to accept as gospel truth any of things in the West as a given (most of it built on shaky grounds) but question everything, come up with new thoughts, ideas, models, paradigms in every area of human endeavor.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by krithivas »

"This is the low-hanging fruit of all the surveillance that disproportionately affects Muslims," Gadeir Abbas, a lawyer for CAIR, said during a press conference
https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/musl ... n-tracking

Fellow rakshaks, The day is not far when there will be a Halal certification for Smartphone Apps!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

bala wrote:We don't need to accept as gospel truth any of things in the West as a given (most of it built on shaky grounds) but question everything, come up with new thoughts, ideas, models, paradigms in every area of human endeavor.
Since it is so general, I don't have anything to say but "Yes, of course".
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by bala »

Vayutuvan wrote:bala ji, don't forget linguistics. Panini showed that a language can be defined mathematically by coming up with a grammar for samskrutam. That and nyaya and its later development navya nyaya which is in noway inferior to Mathematical logic (or Foundations of Mathematics) developed in the west.
Thank you Vayutuvan Garu. Linguistics and Panini (pre-cursor to BNF in computer syntax) stand alone in field of grammar in general.

How many here know: Bhartṛhari (came before Panini) was the author of two influential Sanskrit texts, the Vakyapadiya, on Sanskrit grammar and linguistic philosophy and the Satakatraya, a work of Sanskrit poetry, comprising three collections of about 100 stanzas each. All knowledge is intertwined with the word (Vakyapadiya 1:23), Sabdas are the sole guide to the objects. Speech (Vac) is indeed an outward form of consciousness (chetana). Vac is the word principle that gives expression to the latent or unmanifest thoughts and feelings.

Vag vai brahmeti, "Speech, truly, is Brahman" – Brhadaranyaka Upanisad 4.1.2
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

Of course, Panini did not take birth adept in grammar like Karna born in armour.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

Guys. Please focus on thread topic.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

@ani_digital ·8h

Jaishankar responds to Blinken's remarks on human rights, refers to 'lobbies, vote banks' in US
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

The true colors of the biden administration are coming out and the racist, supremacist ameriki exceptionalism claws are being unsheathed

They will not accept that India is a sovereign country and entitled to her own views and opinions.

WTF has a war in faraway ukraine got to do with India


@ANI·9h

No, we didn't discuss human rights.Meeting was primarily focussed on Political-Military affairs. It's a subject which has come up in past. It came up when Secy Blinken came to India&I was very open about the fact that we discussed it&said what I had to: EAM in Washington, DC(1/3)
People are entitled to have views about us. But we're also equally entitled to have views about their views & about the interests & lobbies and vote banks which drag that. So, whenever there is a discussion, I can tell you that we will not be reticent about speaking up: EAM (2/3)
I'd also tell you that we also take our views on other people's human rights situation, including that of the US. So we take up human rights issues when they arise in this country, especially when they pertain to argument and in fact, we had a case yesterday: EAM Jaishankar (3/3)
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

India doesn’t care what the US does with CAATSA. Jaishankar: “It is their legislation and whatever has to be done has to be done by them.”
https://t.co/w0HrQp4kuk
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:India doesn’t care what the US does with CAATSA. Jaishankar: “It is their legislation and whatever has to be done has to be done by them.”
https://t.co/w0HrQp4kuk

Behind the scenes, it looks like things may have really unraveled quite rapidly

this is exactly why we need putin and russia

the us is an unreliable friend as also a petulant and surly bully
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Najunamar »

Looking at the situation if things go south and US again chooses to be "on the wrong side" of dharma and imposes sanctions, how do we counter it in various arenas:

1) Impose additional costs for US (spread the pain to the Orangutan with hand in the cookie jar) - Refined petro products (may be a good choice as it will hurt Dhimmis chances at the ballot box), wheat/sugar/produce (?- can we make our impact felt here)
2) Identify options for critical hardware imports (GE engines for Tejas immediately comes to mind, but there are other items as well)
3) Work with our ME allies and remove any impact on Rupee (we already have some Bilateral swap agreements such as with Japan up to $75B)

I am sure there are other areas I haven't listed here.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

Sharing: Pentagon Spox on India, US 2+2: more concrete example of the ways we will continue to work with India to strengthen defence partnership; EAM was candid about concerns about conflict in Ukraine.
Video Link - 1.5 minutes video
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

Meanwhile while EAM in New York after his last *noticeable engagement* in DC .. (Going to meet UN Secretary General )


RM is in Hawaii
Image
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

Sharing a 2+2 picture...:)
Image
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vimal »

We should engage in Human rights discussion with khan bhai. US can help by improving state police systems by the way of modernization of technology and infusion of 10 billion dollars per year. Instead of lathi wielding police we can have modern camera equipped police in modern gear.
For proper check on human right khan chacha can provide drones with advanced imagery systems and tracking capability.

Last edited by vimal on 14 Apr 2022 11:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_P »

Amber G. wrote:Sharing a 2+2 picture...:)
...
No body language expert... but that photo tells a stark tale... the honorable RM, hands firmly clasped behind him, leaning away from the tall, bulky American!

:D
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by S_Madhukar »

One thing to notice from the EAM’s interaction at Howard Uni was that Modi had been to the US on some exchange… it is widely known. Such experience brings international confidence provided you are not a Gungadin like MMS or Khujli and an idiot like any Yadav clan.
Our RM probably doesn’t have such experience, nevertheless today opportunities to travel are more and I would hope that our staff and ministers in EAM or FM or PMO even have such international experience that allows them some perspective and outlook that may not be found in the country otherwise.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by M_Joshi »

M_Joshi wrote:
True independent FP will be when Indian EAM can issue a statement in Washington "on our concerns for the safety & police brutality against African Americans & other minorities in the US especially in the Corporate Prison System. We hope these human right abuses shall be curtailed."
Well yesterday only I asked for it & today it has happened.. :mrgreen:
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_Sharma »

hanumadu wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... TOIDesktop
India too has concerns about human rights in US, says Jaishankar in strong push back
Read it all. :)
Did he say it immediately then and there to Blinker's face OR later on some other platform?
@Chellaney:
When Blinken took a swipe at human rights in India, Jaishankar kept mum instead of politely saying US, India should respect each other’s democratic system and not make allegations that give a handle to either side's domestic critics. Talking to Indian media won't undo the damage.

https://twitter.com/Chellaney/status/15 ... 7ruBg&s=19
Staying mum at that time shows weakness, timidity!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

Vayutuvan wrote:Gautam ji,
The situation is not as dire. Here are some stats from NSF.
https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2017/nsf ... erview.cfm
(... rest moved to the "Understanding the US" thread)
viewtopic.php?p=2544963#p2544963
You are right Boss. In my mind I had the library in San Jose University, I used to sit there and study and where mostly Chinese and Vietnamese students, some whites and maybe just one African American student would be seen studying. In reality it just can not be that bad. But I have to say that from what I see from my 22 year son, who grew up here in the US, Americans do not study much, the depth and width of their knowledge is much less than what we had to do in India. When I tell him that do get into a good university to study engineering I was studying 15-17 hours on a continual basis, and I was no exception, many were doing this. My son thinks that I an joking or exaggerating. They just do not have the hunger that we had. The high school education is terrible, no teachers in Maths and science classes. Students have to study on their own, I can go on but I will stop.
Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_Sharma »


@chasing_highs:

India is a country where BRAIN DRAIN is considered as a "good thing".

India gives market access to West/US/UK goods & in return ask them to "relax" visa/immigration rules so that India can send MORE cheap skill labor, instead of asking for equal market access for Indian goods.

https://twitter.com/chasing_highs/statu ... LuHjQ&s=19
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vinod »

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Did he say it immediately then and there to Blinker's face OR later on some other platform?
@Chellaney:
When Blinken took a swipe at human rights in India, Jaishankar kept mum instead of politely saying US, India should respect each other’s democratic system and not make allegations that give a handle to either side's domestic critics. Talking to Indian media won't undo the damage.

https://twitter.com/Chellaney/status/15 ... 7ruBg&s=19
Staying mum at that time shows weakness, timidity!
What is the damage?
When you are put on spot, I would prefer a well thought out response than a blurted one.

I'm more keen on how this HR pressure is applied on Indian govt as a whole, and India's response. If the US was indicating that they are going to take action against India for human rights violations, then India responded by saying, they don't care and we can look into yours as well. So, we will have to wait for US move now.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by rsingh »

Amber G. wrote:Sharing a 2+2 picture...:)
Image
Our MOD: WOW how you managed to become Defence Sec......we have images of police shooting blacks before askig questionS
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Zynda »

Not sure if this was mentioned on BRF...

US Navy Ships May Be Seen At Indian Shipyards In Future.
Washington: In a small but significant move, India and the United States have decided to explore the possibilities of Indian shipyards not only maintaining but also repairing American navy ships.

This is expected to not only further boost the India-US defence trade, but also bring additional business to the Indian shipyards. The decision in this regard was taken during the India-US 2+2 ministerial meeting that was held in Washington on Monday.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken along with Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin led the American delegation while the Indian delegation was led by External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar and Defence Minister Rajnath Singh.

"To further enhance defence industrial cooperation in the naval sector, both sides agreed to explore possibilities of utilising the Indian shipyards for repair and maintenance of ships of the US Maritime Sealift Command (MSC) to support mid-voyage repair of US Naval ships," said the joint statement issued after the 2+2 meeting.

Over the past decade, there has been enhanced cooperation between Indian and American militaries, in particular among the militaries in the Indo-Pacific region.

Notably, Military Sealift Command ships are made up of a core fleet of ships owned by the United States Navy and others under long-term-charter augmented by short-term or voyage-chartered ships.
If the above agreement materialises, one of the positive outcomes is probably increased standards of fabrication, assembly & other manufacturing/inspection operations that comes along...this is assuming that USN standards are higher than the current. It is possible that assessment by USN authorities concluded that Indian shipyards are already meeting their standards.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by bala »

chetak wrote:They will not accept that India is a sovereign country and entitled to her own views and opinions.
This supercilious attitude is what India needs to abrasively counter at every opportunity. The attitude stems from Anglo-Saxon arrogance fostered by the Brits during the Raj by degrading/downgrading/creating false propaganda against India during their rule while they looted. The US currently depends on immigrants from other nations (I might add the Indian component is getting substantial and critical for their success) and the other component which is glossed over is the 100% participation of US fortune companies in India. The latter have major development and R&D centers in India, an extension of their US operations. The companies have full latitude in who they hire/fire and know the ground situation very well. The US State Dept pretends like nothing of this counts when dealing with India. They behave like the quintessential ostrich with its head (filled with colonial thoughts and increasingly becoming empty) in the mud.
sanjaykumar
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

Perhaps it’s much simpler than that. Poverty engenders a prejudice which surpasses even disease and disability.

Before 1973, white prostitutes would steer clear of ‘dirty arabs’ but after petrodollar respectability, they would let arabs in the back door.
Amber G.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

Meanwhile: A significant visit by US congressmen/women to Delhi - in a week in which Washington saw 2+2 meet. Led by Congressman Adam Smith (Chairman of US House Committee on Armed Services); with Houlahan and Scott and India's Foreign Secry.
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(In my view - it is excellent sign that the HASC Chair paying a visit not long after the 2+2 which heralded further cooperation. Highly relevant to the LAC and India's Western flank.
+ strengthen their own Atmanirbharta).
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