India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Cain Marko
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cain Marko »

vinod wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:
Did he say it immediately then and there to Blinker's face OR later on some other platform?



Staying mum at that time shows weakness, timidity!
What is the damage?
When you are put on spot, I would prefer a well thought out response than a blurted one.
.
Agreed. It's better to say something with a cool head. Having said this, one would expect that an elite product of the foreign service have the presence of mind to not let such moments slide. Nevertheless SJs late response was a step up from previous FMs.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vmalik »

If US puts sanctions on India, isn't that a good thing? BJP can finally take out all the garbage that is being funded by 3 lettered gora agencies. I mean, sure the economy is going to tank but that seems kind of pointless at this stage as RoPers, nationwide, are starting to getting antsy as 2024 approaches. Next decade isn't looking pretty anyways, internal security wise.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vera_k »

Cain Marko wrote:Agreed. It's better to say something with a cool head. Having said this, one would expect that an elite product of the foreign service have the presence of mind to not let such moments slide. Nevertheless SJs late response was a step up from previous FMs.
To be fair, the EAM is unarmed for this conversation, so he did the best he could. I would hope that JNU or other universities' energies can be redirected to producing reports that can arm our EAM for such conversations. Many degrees could be earned, and who knows something good comes out of good old fashioned academic rigor.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Zynda »

Battle within US panel on religious freedom on putting India on Red List
Behind the exchange of words on the state of human rights in each other’s countries between External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar and US Secretary of State Antony Blinken is a more intense battle being fought in the corridors of United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) as it prepares a report to be submitted to the US State Department on April 25.

Twice in the past successive years, the USCIRF wanted the US State Department to treat India as a “Country of Particular Concern (CPC)” which would bracket it with egregious human rights abusers such as China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.And, both times two different US administrations have rejected its recommendation and kept India a rung below the red list.

This time the battle within USCIRF on the India chapter is more intense than in the past amidst insider accounts that one USCIRF Commissioner has “been turned” and is understood to be insisting on several changes in the draft under preparation.

On Wednesday, Jaishankar held a press conference in Washington to rebut Blinken’s comments a day earlier. Stating that human rights issue was not a topic of discussion during the India-US 2+2 ministerial meeting, Jaishankar said people were entitled to have views about India but “we also take our views on other people’s human rights situation, including that of the US.”
What is prompting USCIRF to conclude that India deserves to be in CPC category? What evidence are they examining? If they are relying on articles written by Barka, Rana Ayubb etc., whose articles are severely one-eyed & distorted, then the credibility of USCIRF is a huge question mark. In anycase, India should discredit any such reports and not only rebut it but also come up with similar reports on US HR violations of minority communities.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

Zynda wrote:Battle within US panel on religious freedom on putting India on Red List


This time the battle within USCIRF on the India chapter is more intense than in the past amidst insider accounts that one USCIRF Commissioner has “been turned” and is understood to be insisting on several changes in the draft under preparation.
I wonder who this could be.

The current USCIRF commissioners are:

Nadine Maenza, an Evangelical Christian nominated by Trump
Nury Turkel, an Uyghur Muslim nominated by Nancy Pelosi
Arunima Bhargava, a former DOJ/Civil Rights official nominated by Nancy Pelosi
James Carr, a former Entrepreneur and Business Professor nominated by Kevin McCarthy
Frederick Davie, formerly of Union Theological Seminary (left-wing Christian institution), nominated by Chuck Schumer
Khizr Khan, a Paki who famously shouted at Donald Trump about the US Constitution at the 2016 DNC. Nominated by Joe Biden.
Sharon Kleinbaum, a Jewish congregation leader nominated by Joe Biden.
Tony Perkins, an Evangelical Christian nominated by Mitch McConnell.

Of these, Tony Perkins has been extremely and vociferously anti-India on the issue of FCRA action against Missionary funding. Maenza probably is in this camp as well.

Khizr Khan is the father of a Paki-American soldier who died in Iraq. He is an immigration lawyer whose firm supposedly specialized in helping rich Muslims from Islamic countries buy US citizenship (investor visa track). At the 2016 Democratic National Convention, he famously ranted against Donald Trump and waved a copy of the US constitution.

I don't know what Khizr Khan's qualifications are to sit on the USCIRF, even considering this tamasha, but he is there. You can pretty much expect him to be in the extreme anti-India camp as well.

However, the report says one "commissioner has been turned". I wonder who that is. "Turned" suggests someone who was earlier neutral about India and has now become extremely anti-India. So probably not one of the three mentioned above, who were always anti-India.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_Sharma »

@vtchakarova:

Keep in mind that Biden’s administration is currently appeasing China while antagonizing India #geopolitics
https://twitter.com/vtchakarova/status/ ... p1Fmw&s=19
_______________________
@DharmicFundoo:

USA couldn't live with another white nation in competition for influence in the white world (Russia).

USA can also not live with another strong democratic nation in competition for the freedom & morality narrative for the democratic world (India)

Godless authoritarian China welcome
https://twitter.com/DharmicFundoo/statu ... a4OwA&s=19
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by bala »

The funny thing is the rest of world keeps thinking along the lines that US and China are not one and the same. Yes, they are race wise different, they have communism as their govt form, things are all different, etc. After the Nixon-Mao entangle, the US real owners of businesses relocated their factories into China. Now their fangs are deeply embedded into China and they are calling the shots. The US and China will never get into a direct tussle, all the empty stmts against China by sundry folks in the US are better ignored. In a three way between US, China and India you know how the gang up will occur. All the rest is for gullible folks.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

I missed this. Slightly older, but still relevant:
https://thediplomat.com/2022/03/indias- ... or-the-us/
India’s Response to the Ukraine Crisis Is a Wake-up Call for the US
Rather than hand-wringing over India’s reliability, it’s time for Washington to face up to the facts: The U.S. has a serious image problem in India.
Muhsin Puthan Purayil, March 21, 2022

As the United States ramps up efforts to rally international support to isolate Russia following its Ukraine invasion, Washington’s close Indo-Pacific partner and fellow democracy India refused to join the diplomatic coalition against Russia. Making it clear that it has no intention to hurt Russia ties, New Delhi neither condemned Russian action nor joined in the U.N. resolutions against Russia.
Indeed, India’s stance, which does not sit comfortably with its democratic character and New Delhi’s commitment to the rules-based international order, has not gone down well with its democratic partners in the West, especially the United States. Most glaringly, it challenges the general assumption and rhetoric about shared values underpinning India-U.S. relations and implicitly states that shared values are not above strategic interest, and that shared values do not automatically become shared interests until mutual strategic interests align.
However, amid political debates about India’s awkward support of Russia and its impact on India-U.S. ties, a dimension of public opinion needs to be reckoned with. Submerged behind the policy elites and commentators’ refined justification of India’s stand on Ukraine as being driven by national interest is the raw national attitude alluding to India’s past disillusionment with the West. India’s stance on the Ukraine war reflects the tremendous domestic public support that Russia enjoys compared to the United States, a reality that Washington has seemingly yet to grasp. The public evocation of collective memory, connecting India’s past disenchantment with the U.S to the present, is glaringly evident in discussions on social media.
The India-U.S. dynamic during the Cold War still looms large in popular memory, where there is a strong perception that Washington was reluctant to empathize with India, despite the latter being a like-minded democracy. In this regard, the U.S. alliance with Pakistan and its significant support of Islamabad during the 1971 war against India evokes compelling discontent even 50 years later. Adding to the discontent is the popular view that Washington failed to sufficiently shake off its Cold War-era positions against New Delhi even as strategic proximity between the two nations grew exponentially after the fall of the Soviet Union. Washington’s persistently lackluster response to India’s calls to isolate Pakistan internationally for its support of cross-border terrorism and continued U.S. military assistance to Islamabad reinforce this perception.
In this dynamic, as the Russia-Ukraine crisis forces India to pick a side between Moscow and Washington, public memory propels the belief that past U.S. actions, which blithely ignored Indian concerns, place no ethical demand on India to oblige the U.S. call for support against Russia, unless New Delhi’s interests are in deep peril. If anything, India’s response to the Ukraine crisis reveals that the United States’ burgeoning strategic proximity with India failed to reorient Indians’ public memory to Washington’s favor. This is deeply disadvantageous to the United States. Pertinent questions then arise: Is this perception an outcome of U.S. foreign policy alone? Or is there more to it?
Even as the history of U.S. foreign policy actions toward Delhi speaks for itself in terms of India’s public resentment and negative perception, it is easy to see opportunities for a more positive message about U.S. foreign policy toward India. Tellingly, public memory, haunted as it is by misgivings about the United States, is a symptom of Washington’s fractured public diplomacy toward India. To begin with, there has been little effort to amplify the $70 million in U.S. military assistance to India during the 1962 Sino-Indian war, which stands in contrast to Russia’s neutral stand and U.S. ally Pakistan’s criticism of New Delhi. Similarly, the U.S. support to India during the 1965 war against Pakistan and reluctance to back Pakistan in the Kargil War in 1999 all failed to penetrate the Indian public memory, another missed opportunity for U.S. public diplomacy.
......
Gautam
Muhsin Puthan Purayil is a Ph.D. candidate in Political Science at University of Hyderabad, India.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Najunamar »

Typical surface level thinking of the US, they always place greater emphasis on form over substance. Everything is only an image problem, in a way I now think Pakistan may be only a degenerate pauperized version of the US. No wonder they get along very well - whereas the dharmic message of sathyameva jayathe does not resonate well here in th DOS echo chambers.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by uddu »

Overall what transpired during the recent meeting is that the U.S and India did not deviate from the objective of improving relationship (Only reason being China). The usual nautanki will be there. Some dissatisfied elements within the administration and also the Chinese friendly authors will try to shoot some articles about how the relationship is not at all good due to Ukraine etc. The U.S don't care a damn about Ukraine. They gained a lot utilizing Ukraine. The show will go on and occasional lectures will be there. They will also keep trying to intervene in India through their actors as always. I would like to see Dr.Jaishankar giving a press conference and expose the U.S with proof of their meddling in India's affairs and their support to Anti-India activities. Also asking U.S to desist from such activities and also urging president to take action against such culprits.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

Udduji,
I hope that the US in their state of absolute ignorance and frustration with India, does not plan a regime change, as it has tried to do in many countries.
Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Wo says the US does not plan a regime change in India? Its is, and always looking for an opportunity. Its not able to do much at present due to the immense popularity NaMo enjoys at home and abroad. It will just keep making "human rights abuses" noise to try and keep Anti_Hindu, caste oppression, Brahmin superiority, corruption etc. rhetoric alive and active, keep supporting evangelical groups that target India, and gives them hope of external support when the time is right.

Who Victoria Nuland met on her recent visit is a give away.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Haresh »

"Tony Perkins, an Evangelical Christian nominated by Mitch McConnell"
This ba$tard needs to explain why he was buying membership lists of nazis from nazis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Perkins_(politician)

I am sure the others have some pretty shady backgrounds as well.
Who do they think they are ?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_Sharma »

g.sarkar wrote:Udduji,
I hope that the US in their state of absolute ignorance and frustration with India, does not plan a regime change, as it has tried to do in many countries.
Gautam
Yes they will, you will see by end of this year till May 2024 there will be multi-pronged attacks on India, so current regime doesn't return in 2024. Donkeys are going to go full throttle against BJP govt. Whether senile biden is in seat or retarded harris.
______________________
Example:
https://twitter.com/AnasMallick/status/ ... lcxkw&s=19
US congresswoman @IlhanMN to arrive in Islamabad tomorrow, she will be visiting Lahore and Azad Kashmir as well and will meet country’s senior leadership. #Pakistan
@Daeroplate_v2:

its got to have gotus approval or encouragement at some level. when was the last time a congressman visited POK esp someone already so controversial.

attack dog has been unleashed to 'punish' India for other things.
https://twitter.com/daeroplate_v2/statu ... lrDrA&s=19
Last edited by Manish_Sharma on 18 Apr 2022 17:13, edited 1 time in total.
Manish_Sharma
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_Sharma »

g.sarkar wrote:I missed this. Slightly older, but still relevant:
https://thediplomat.com/2022/03/indias- ... or-the-us/

......Similarly, the U.S. support to India during the 1965 war against Pakistan and reluctance to back Pakistan in the Kargil War in 1999 all failed to penetrate the Indian public memory, another missed opportunity for U.S. public diplomacy.
......
Gautam
Muhsin Puthan Purayil is a Ph.D. candidate in Political Science at University of Hyderabad, India.

:rotfl: 1965 war was instigated by usa under Johnson. There's a book I forgot its details... maybe 'war games' by sidney ... someone to make oil trade backed by dollars instead of rupees!

Mushin is soooo cunning he presents the following as a great ehsaan on Bharat:

"reluctance to back Pakistan in the Kargil War in 1999."
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

Mushin is working diligently for his green card and career in Massaland.
Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/951522 ... -visit-ajk
US congresswoman due tomorrow, to visit AJK
Mariana Baabar, April 19, 2022

ISLAMABAD: US Congresswoman Ilhan Abdullah Omar is expected to arrive in Islamabad Wednesday (tomorrow) and the highlight of the visit will be a trip to Azad Kashmir.
A senior official at the Foreign Office has confirmed the visit though there has been no official announcement and no announcement from the US Embassy either. Thirty seven-year-old Omar belongs to the Democrats and represents the State of Minnesota in Congress, one of the two Muslim women elected to the US Congress in 2018.
.......
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Gravitas: U.S. congresswoman Ilhan Omar to visit Pakistan


Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Dilbu »

Biden’s Problem With India
On an array of issues and norms of importance to the Biden administration, India’s position is more akin to that of China than the US.
When he took office last year, Biden was expected to focus on the threat from China and build a coalition of democracies against it. Early in his term, Biden hosted a Summit of Democracy toward that end. India was invited to that summit and was also positioned as a key partner in Washington’s Indo-Pacific strategy.

Then, Russia invaded Ukraine and everything changed overnight.
Last Sunday, Biden’s National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan outlined America’s three key objectives in light of this new crisis: “a free and independent Ukraine, a weakened and isolated Russia and a stronger, more unified, more determined West.”
But if isolating Russia is now a key policy objective in Washington, India is an important obstacle. In response to these efforts, India has begun talks with Moscow to explore ways to sidestep Western sanctions, including by trading in their own currencies. Prior to the war, Russia was only a marginal energy supplier to India. But in March and April of this year alone, India has signed contracts to import more oil from Russia than it did in 2021.

Coal is in fact even more important than oil — it is the largest export commodity from Russia to India. Early this month, the European Commission proposed banning Russian coal as part of its isolation efforts. Yet, India imported more Russian coal in March than it had in any month since January 2020. India has announced that it plans to double those imports in order to bolster its steel industry.
The problem for Washington is that India has robust economic reasons to defy the West and continue such trade with Russia. And if India is indeed a U.S. ally against China, then such trade is also in Washington’s own interest, given that it would strengthen India’s hand. Cheap energy and commodities from Russia are increasingly vital for India’s post-pandemic recovery — to jumpstart an economy that was ravaged by a devastating second wave of COVID-19 infections last year. In addition, Russian arms — which still make up 60 percent of India’s artillery — are crucial in any war with China.

But Biden also has an even more fundamental question to answer: Is India really a reliable ally against China?
Critics argue that a persistent border dispute will keep India hostile to China, and thereby still give the U.S. an incentive to prop New Delhi up against Beijing. But that specter may not be as permanent as one would think. For Beijing, these serendipitous ideological commonalities are an opportunity to exploit.

As he looks set to return to office for an unprecedented third term later this year, Chinese President Xi Jinping might want to take a longer view of Chinese foreign policy. That would involve establishing China as a clear rival to the Western liberal order, building a coalition of allies for that cause, and possibly strengthening Beijing’s hand in Taiwan as it has sought to do in Hong Kong over the last few years.

In light of these challenges, troubles on the border with India — especially in the context of diminishing common ground between Washington and New Delhi — are distractive at best and destructive at worst. Last month, China conveyed to India that it seeks a broader partnership in Asia. That may become extremely alluring to Prime Minister Narendra Modi if Xi is willing to make meaningful compromises on the border.


For Biden, these shifting sands in Asia present a number of policy dilemmas that will not be easy to solve.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

The article if written from the Indian stand point will say that US is not the most reliable of partners.

Because post 1991 Russia was the most important security partner in Europe. Not Germany, not Poland, not the Baltic States.

The US created a circumstance in which they have pushed Russians in a destructive path. Once the Russians have started walking that path, the US is systematically closing all avenues for a deescalation.

How does India know that India will not be pushed in a similar circumstance in favour of PRC or TSP. Oh wait, Bill Clinton already tried to do that in the 1990s.

How does India know that in future the USA will not be seeking a seperate treaty with the PRC at India's expense. While retreating from Korea and Japan back to j
Hawaii.

Because afterall, nations don't have permanent friends, they have permanent interests.

How is this as a response to the article published above.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Dilbu »

That article is correct in assuming that India and China are seeing an opportunity here to work together and move away from west vs russia zero sum game. The problem as always is the trustworthiness of CCP.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

Dilbu wrote:Biden’s Problem With India
On an array of issues and norms of importance to the Biden administration, India’s position is more akin to that of China than the US.
When he took office last year, Biden was expected to focus on the threat from China and build a coalition of democracies against it. Early in his term, Biden hosted a Summit of Democracy toward that end. India was invited to that summit and was also positioned as a key partner in Washington’s Indo-Pacific strategy.

.

properly cultivated India could be China's biggest ally and enhance its own national strength. Why is it that they cannot realise that its not the US but India who is going to be their biggest trading partner in a couple of decades?

An idea to ponder is whether a democratic China is better for India or a communist one

Just like China . India is key to the new geopolitical game
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

In future please post author name too. Thanks.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Mohammed Zeeshan, Columbia masters in international relations. writes for deccan herald among others.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 28 Apr 2022 03:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Pratyush wrote:
The US created a circumstance in which they have pushed Russians in a destructive path. Once the Russians have started walking that path, the US is systematically closing all avenues for a deescalation.

How does India know that India will not be pushed in a similar circumstance in favour of PRC or TSP.
Like roles of
Russia-Ukraine-Zelensky will be:
China-India-Maafiwal ???
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

Why would India assume it wouldn’t be the recipient of such attention? Elites in some countries, perhaps all, view national power as a zero sum game. Russia has obviously taken into account much that has transpired. It is only the foolish (I’m looking at you Pakistan) who do not model several steps hence.

Some of us do have the hope that science if not politics will provide equitable quality of life, opportunities and rationalism for all creatures on earth.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by shravanp »

kit wrote:

properly cultivated India could be China's biggest ally and enhance its own national strength. Why is it that they cannot realise that its not the US but India who is going to be their biggest trading partner in a couple of decades?

An idea to ponder is whether a democratic China is better for India or a communist one

Just like China . India is key to the new geopolitical game
I think just as the communist political setup of China may not be the best setup for them, I would say the same for India. Current Westminster styled parliamentarian democracy may not be the ideal for the country. It leaves a huge scope for subservients, law breakers, and pretty much open for outsiders to make an opinion on internal matters.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Ambar »

The puppets are tumbling out of every closet, drawer and cupboard in the room !

Here's the latest one in Foreign Affairs magazine by our esteemed Shashi Tharoor

Modi’s Big Mistake
How Neutrality on Ukraine Weakens India
n February, as Russian tanks rolled across the Ukrainian border and Russian missiles rained down on Ukrainian cities, India equivocated. Its representatives at the UN abstained on 12 resolutions condemning the invasion. Its initial statements at the Security Council were decidedly mealy-mouthed: its UN ambassador did not mention Russia by name, nor did he criticize the war. India’s foreign ministry expressed a curious evenhandedness, seeking “de-escalation,” as if both countries were belligerents, and pleading for a “return” to “the path of diplomatic negotiations and dialogue.” Despite the rhetorical care the administration of Prime Minister Narendra Modi has adopted to appear neutral, the time may have come for India, in its own interest, to rethink its stance. Sharp criticism at home and abroad appears to have prompted India to take steps in that direction. It has toughened its language and reiterated the principles of international law it has traditionally upheld: respect for the UN Charter and the sovereignty of states, the inviolability of borders, and opposition to the use of force to resolve political issues. By hardening its tone while refraining from full-fledged repudiation, New Delhi is signaling to Moscow that even if it is unwilling to condemn its old friend, it does not exactly approve of its actions either. Thus a stance that began with equivocation has progressed to mild disappointment. Some have argued that the war in Ukraine will “consolidate a global alliance that unites democracies against Russia and China,” as the scholars Michael Beckley and Hal Brands wrote in Foreign Affairs. There is an element of wishful thinking in that proposition, which overlooks, as the Indian diplomat Shivshankar Menon pointed out in response, “Asia’s sense of its own difference—its focus on stability, trade, and the bottom line that has served Asian countries so well in the last 40 years.” But it would be wrong to look at the reluctance to take sides that India and other developing countries in Asia have shown and conclude that a faraway war in Europe simply does not matter to the rest of the world. India’s dilemma is more complicated than its repeated abstentions on the Ukraine question imply, and it illustrates why the world order cannot simply remain what it was before the invasion

A RISING TRAJECTORY
India has spent the twenty-first century seeking to establish itself as a major player on the world stage. As galloping economic growth drew a level of attention the country had not experienced since the 1950s, India asserted itself on a variety of fronts. It became a founding member of the G-20 when that organization was established in 1999; concluded a nuclear deal with the United States in 2005 that was portrayed as enshrining an “Indian exception”; took over the World Economic Forum in Davos in 2006, dubbing itself “the world’s fastest-growing free market democracy”; won then President Barack Obama’s endorsement of India’s claims to a permanent seat on the UN Security Council in 2010; got the UN to adopt an International Day of Yoga in 2015, showcasing its cultural soft power; and joined the quadrilateral security dialogue with the United States,Australia, and Japan known as the Quad. That last development also marked a change in the way American officials referred to the region, speaking of “the Indo-Pacific” rather than “the Asia-Pacific.” After decades of marginalization, India became a force to be reckoned with, a player of consequence in global councils, and a growing regional counterweight to an increasingly assertive China.

Now, however, the West has implied that there could be consequences for India’s ambivalence. Shortly after the invasion, U.S. President Joe Biden warned, “Any nation that countenances Russia's naked aggression against Ukraine will be stained by association.” And in a virtual meeting with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in early April, he pressed India to align itself with the United States on this issue. Despite a number of statements by Western visitors to New Delhi expressing understanding for the Indian position, India seems out of step with the passions felt in the West. According to Indian publications including ThePrint, Germany is considering disinviting India to meetings on the sidelines of the G-7 summit, solely because of its stance on Ukraine. While the German government has denied those rumors, such reports have heightened apprehensions among Indians that their country has damaged its standing and marginalized itself in the eyes of its valued partners. The irony is that India has never needed Russia less. Yes, India depends on Russia militarily, with the Kremlin supplying some 45 percent of its weaponry and defense equipment. But that share is down from 75 percent a decade ago, and India has diversified its purchases to include U.S., French, and Israeli armaments. Yes, the Indian government has a history of relying on Russian support when problems with Pakistan and China—notably over Kashmir—come to a head. But support from the United States has meant that India no longer needs a Russian veto at the Security Council to keep Kashmir off the agenda.

Moscow, moreover, has become ever less reliable as it gravitates closer to Beijing, which India’s hostile neighbor and traditional antagonist, Pakistan, calls its “all-weather friend.” Russia has even conducted military exercises in Pakistan—which began in territory India claims—and on the very day the invasion of Ukraine began, then-Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan was welcomed in Moscow for meetings.

INDIA SHOULDN’T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS
Washington’s interest in India was always predicated on the justification of “shared values” between the two democracies—the world’s largest and the world’s oldest, as U.S. presidents never tire of reiterating. Before the invasion, whether or not the fledgling “community of democracies”—Biden’s democracy-promotion effort—would ever constitute themselves into a formal alliance, many in Washington argued that a democratic India deserved U.S. support for what it was, not only for what it might provide. It was in the United States’ interest to shore up and facilitate the influence of a regional power that stood for the same democratic norms as the West. A secular and democratic India, committed to the rule of law and the liberal international order, was thought to be an invaluable partner in global governance.

This was the implicit deal, and it was a good one for India, opening up markets, supply lines, and global influence for New Delhi, as well as the new partnership of the Quad. The recent wishy-washiness on Ukraine, however, has raised fundamental questions about the extent of India’s commitment to those norms. At a time when the world media had woken up to the increasing signs of Modi’s illiberalism—the respected V-Dem Institute has suggested that India had turned from a “liberal democracy” into an “elected autocracy”—the country’s stand on Ukraine has raised fresh questions as to whether this Indian government genuinely shares the democratic assumptions that merited Western support. An India behaving increasingly undemocratically at home could hardly be expected to make common cause with democracies worldwide.

One way for India to salvage its reputation in the West would be to leverage its nonaligned position to play peacemaker on Ukraine. So far, it hasn’t tried to do so, even while Israel and Turkey have. Ahead of the first Security Council debate on the war, Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, tweeted that in a call to his Indian counterpart, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, he had asked “India to use all influence in its relations with Russia to force it to cease military aggression against Ukraine.” Clearly, New Delhi’s influence with Moscow did not extend that far. India’s strategic autonomy had not won it such an influential role on the world stage.


India’s lack of influence on Russia and failure to take a clear stand on the war have also undermined its case for a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. As it happens, India is currently serving a two-year term as a nonpermanent member of the council; it was from that perch that it abstained on the resolution condemning the invasion of Ukraine. That decision makes it harder to argue that India would advocate a liberal vision of world order if it were given a permanent seat.Those who have put a gloss on India’s temporizing as a refusal to fall into the logic of what Menon calls a “global Manichaean struggle” overlook the very real interests that are at stake. The inexorable rise of China is a new geopolitical factor that India, which shares a 2,200-mile disputed border with China, cannot ignore. As recently as June 2020, Chinese troops killed 20 Indian soldiers in a mountainous region of the Himalayas that both countries claim as part of their territory.

It is true that India, a founder of the nonaligned movement during the Cold War, has historically been allergic to alliances and disinclined to put all its strategic eggs in one star-spangled basket. But China’s recent belligerence has made it increasingly necessary for India to make common cause with others—to use their collective diplomatic, geopolitical, and military leverage to limit Beijing’s ambitions and constrain how much it can get away with. At a time when Russia, weakened by its Ukrainian misadventure, risks becoming a satellite state of a rising Chinese imperium,reliance on Russia makes even less sense in the future. With Pakistan already reduced to a wholly owned subsidiary of the Chinese Belt and Road Initiative, the potential emergence of a hostile axis on India’s borders points to the imperative need for New Delhi to find and shore up its own partnerships.

The Ukraine war may indeed, as Menon suggests, have underscored the “fundamental incoherence” of “the free world.” But one of the results of the war is bound to be an increasing coherence, as nations aroused from their slumber dust themselves off and rearrange the global furniture. If Russia can do this to a neighbor and get away with it, China could easily try the same approach next. An India that equivocated on Ukraine cannot blame others for responding with the same indifference if China decided to teach it a lesson and redraw the Chinese-Indian border by force.Before the Ukraine crisis, the United States had seemed to be more focused on the global threat from China, and the Indo-Pacific had loomed larger in Washington’s concerns than Europe. At that time, Washington might well have been inclined to give an increasingly illiberal India a free pass for the sake of shoring it up against China. That has now changed with the renewed focus on Europe and Western determination to resist Russian assertiveness at all costs—and it is not to India’s advantage. Today, the United States might well be tempted to put containing China behind its interests in Europe—and then norms and values matter more, for they are all that undergird the West’s interest in India. An increasingly autocratic, antiminority Modi government at home might find itself the object of greater Western criticism rather than the recipient of enhanced Western support.Worse, China could take advantage of the situation by forcibly attempting to absorb parts of its disputed border with India while the world is distracted by the war in Ukraine. If, as Menon suggests, “geopolitical disputes and security dilemmas that could affect the global order are concentrated in maritime Asia,” that is all the more reason why India needs the West. The Quad has been weakened by India’s failure to go along with its other three members on Ukraine and on challenging the emerging geopolitical convergence between China and Russia. India finds itself in a position where its traditional reluctance to choose sides on any major international question could come back to haunt it—when it wants other nations to choose its side.

India, like France, will always cherish a prickly independence, but also like France, it cannot easily do without “the free world,” because the enemies of freedom are its own enemies, too. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has indeed opened up new fault lines that prompt clear strategic choices.India—and other nations far away from Ukraine but falling under China’s shadow—will have to make choices in their own interest that they have so far preferred to evade. At the UN, one of India’s pieties was that the developments in Ukraine “had the potential to undermine peace and security in the region.” It is becoming increasingly clear that they also have the potential to undermine India’s own peace and security—in the region and beyond.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

Vayutuvan wrote:Mohammed Zeeshan, Columbia masters in international relations. writes for deccan herald among others.
The whole media is full of morons generating absolute tripe or regurgitated news. There is very little value in reading news media.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

vmalik wrote:If US puts sanctions on India, isn't that a good thing? BJP can finally take out all the garbage that is being funded by 3 lettered gora agencies. I mean, sure the economy is going to tank but that seems kind of pointless at this stage as RoPers, nationwide, are starting to getting antsy as 2024 approaches. Next decade isn't looking pretty anyways, internal security wise.
"Looking pretty" and "going in the right direction" are two different things. Earlier the nation was being eaten alive from within by termites and BIFs of various kinds...most people just carried on without knowing/understanding/caring or just feeling hopeless. Riots, naxalism, and conversions continued rampantly but news and information on these things were controlled. Everything looked "calm" on the surface.

Now the ignorant are getting informed, the fence sitters are getting off their asses, and Modi/Shah/Yogi have managed to get Hindoos together into a semblance of a voting bloc. Tough decisions like 370, noise pollution enforcement, UCC etc will always make the worms crawl out of the woodwork. The anti-nationals need to be exposed and laid bare in every attempt to create trouble.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

Ambar wrote:The puppets are tumbling out of every closet, drawer and cupboard in the room !

Here's the latest one in Foreign Affairs magazine by our esteemed Shashi Tharoor

Modi’s Big Mistake
How Neutrality on Ukraine Weakens India
There is an element of wishful thinking in that proposition, which overlooks, as the Indian diplomat Shivshankar Menon pointed out in response, “Asia’s sense of its own difference—its focus on stability, trade, and the bottom line that has served Asian countries so well in the last 40 years.” But it would be wrong to look at the reluctance to take sides that India and other developing countries in Asia have shown and conclude that a faraway war in Europe simply does not matter to the rest of the world. India’s dilemma is more complicated than its repeated abstentions on the Ukraine question imply, and it illustrates why the world order cannot simply remain what it was before the invasion

A RISING TRAJECTORY
India has spent the twenty-first century seeking to establish itself as a major player on the world stage. As galloping economic growth drew a level of attention the country had not experienced since the 1950s, India asserted itself on a variety of fronts. It became a founding member of the G-20 when that organization was established in 1999; That last development also marked a change in the way American officials referred to the region, speaking of “the Indo-Pacific” rather than “the Asia-Pacific.” After decades of marginalization, India became a force to be reckoned with, a player of consequence in global councils, and a growing regional counterweight to an increasingly assertive China.

Now, however, the West has implied that there could be consequences for India’s ambivalence. The irony is that India has never needed Russia less. Yes, India depends on Russia militarily, with the Kremlin supplying some 45 percent of its weaponry and defense equipment. But that share is down from 75 percent a decade ago, and India has diversified its purchases to include U.S., French, and Israeli armaments. Yes, the Indian government has a history of relying on Russian support when problems with Pakistan and China—notably over Kashmir—come to a head. But support from the United States has meant that India no longer needs a Russian veto at the Security Council to keep Kashmir off the agenda.


India, like France, will always cherish a prickly independence, but also like France, it cannot easily do without “the free world,” because the enemies of freedom are its own enemies, too. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has indeed opened up new fault lines that prompt clear strategic choices.India—and other nations far away from Ukraine but falling under China’s shadow—will have to make choices in their own interest that they have so far preferred to evade. At the UN, one of India’s pieties was that the developments in Ukraine “had the potential to undermine peace and security in the region.” It is becoming increasingly clear that they also have the potential to undermine India’s own peace and security—in the region and beyond.
All said ., good points but Tharoor hasn't mentioned that it is not just military hardware but Russia s support in UNSC is also important to India. He also did not mention the wests leery support or rather lack of it towards India wrt to China. The only "support" US gave was advice to increase trade with China. He mentions "support" from US at UNSC, when did that ever happen in matters of geopolitical significance, if you look at it US or its Munna has been behind all the UN sanctions against India!!

India does not have a choice., it has become too big to be small to fit into one camp., as it sets forth on its destiny away from its historic shackles
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

If tharoor does not vocally support the west against India and russia, he will be culled from many intimate soirees, BIF gatherings and cancelled at home and abroad too.

this lecher and reprobate needs to stay relevant and visible.

He is anyway almost out of reckoning in the congi sphere of darbaari beneficiaries
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Shampoo boy predictably missed the point that "Any nation that blindly stands alongside America will be burned by association." Couldn't read the rest of his grovelling drivel.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Jeez kit ji, what good points? Are we reading the same article? A few bird droppings from Tharoor's article posted above :

"But support from the United States has meant that India no longer needs a Russian veto at the Security Council to keep Kashmir off the agenda." - bring on Kashmir agenda, who is afraid of that? We'll simply reclaim PoK !

"apprehensions among Indians that their country has damaged its standing and marginalized itself in the eyes of its valued partners" - only oxbridge lap dogs have such apprehensions

"India’s lack of influence on Russia and failure to take a clear stand on the war have also undermined its case for a permanent seat on the UN Security Council." - expecting a nation of 1.4B people to show the same bwana attitude has himself for his former employer

"The inexorable rise of China is a new geopolitical factor that India, which shares a 2,200-mile disputed border with China, cannot ignore. As recently as June 2020, Chinese troops killed 20 Indian soldiers in a mountainous region of the Himalayas that both countries claim as part of their territory." - trying to paint that India was mauled and will be mauled everywhere on that 200km border, he will be first among traitors when it hits the fan

" An increasingly autocratic, antiminority Modi government at home might find itself the object of greater Western criticism rather than the recipient of enhanced Western support." - there he did find a way to pass the gas that keeps this gas bag full.

Tharoor is fit for trashcan now. Discussing his articles is giving him more space than he is worth.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

:rotfl: Image
ramana
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

Cyrano wrote:Shampoo boy predictably missed the point that "Any nation that blindly stands alongside America will be burned by association." Couldn't read the rest of his grovelling drivel.

KS garu wrote," US acts as Delilah to her Samson allies!"

The first act of US is to neuter their allies so they don't have the opportunity to get out of the alliance.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/ ... 47229.html
China, Russia, India in US property rights blacklist
The report identifies countries “that are falling short’’ and promised that the Biden administration “will continue to engage with these trading partners to level the playing field for our workers."
Associated Press, 27th April 2022

WASHINGTON: The United States has put China, Russia and five other countries on its annual blacklist for lax enforcement of intellectual property rights that leaves American companies vulnerable to copyright and trademark piracy.
All seven countries on this year’s list were on last year’s, too.
“China continues to be the largest origin economy for counterfeit and pirated goods,’’ according to the report.
Also on the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative’s “priority watch list’’ were Argentina, Chile, India, Indonesia and Venezuela.
The U.S. suspended its review this year of Ukraine -- which made last year’s blacklist -- while it attempts to fight off an invasion from Russia.
The trade office also removed Saudi Arabia from its priority watch list, citing its crackdown on counterfeit and pirated goods, the creation of special intellectual property enforcement courts and other steps.
To prepare the list, which was released Wednesday, the trade office reviewed the performance of more than 100 U.S. trading partners.
.....
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news ... as-ties-us
India-hating USCIRF seeks to poison India’s ties with US
Abhinandan Mishra, April 23, 2022

New Delhi: An annual report, which will be released by the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) on 25 April, will again recommend putting India on the “blacklist” as “Country of Particular Concern” (CPC), a practice that has been going on since 2020. This, relevant officials in the North Block and the South Block say, will confirm their findings that the body is working on a set anti-India “agenda”.
While the USCIRF—which was created in 1998 under the International Religious Freedom Act (IRFA) to “independently” monitor universal right to freedom of religion outside of the United States—and its findings are rarely taken seriously in India because of its “biased” reports and are dismissed by India’s Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) tersely, the fact that for three years it has been able to put India on what it calls a list of “Countries of Particular Concerns”, shows how influential the anti-India lobby in the US has become in the last few years and the resources that are being spent to generate anti-India sentiments in Western countries, say officials tracking the matter.
Earlier in the week, several US-based so-called civil rights and faith groups wrote to USCIRF asking it to again recommend India’s inclusion among the “world’s worst persecutors of religious minorities”. Among the signatories are Indian American Muslim Council, Hindus for Human Rights, Jubilee Campaign USA, International Christian Concern, India Civil Watch International, Federation of Indian American Christian Organisations, Dalit Solidarity Forum in the USA, Cameroon American Council, Asian Children Education Fellowship, Association of Indian Muslims of America, International Society for Peace and Justice, Justice For All, Dar El Eman, Coeur d’Alene Bible Church, New Life Church, Fresh Heart Ministries, Greentree Global Pokane Fatherhood Initiative, Indian Muslim Association of Carolinas, Christian Freedom International and International Asian Christian Front.
The countries on the CPC list, as per the laws, can be put on the sanctions list by the US President. More importantly, this list is used by global lobbying agencies to discourage investors from investing in the country concerned, and is also used to dent the country’s soft power and global image.
In November 2021, United States Secretary of State Antony Blinken released a list of 10 countries on the US government’s official list of the world’s worst offenders of religious freedom. A notable omission was India. Similarly, in 2020, then-Secretary State, Mike Pompeo, too, had refused to include India on the list despite a recommendation being made by the USCIRF. In 2021, Nadine Maenza, the chair of USCIRF, had recommended to impose targeted sanctions on Indian government agencies and officials responsible for the “severe religious freedom violations” by freezing their assets, including barring their entry into the US.
According to Indian officials, who are posted in the West and are tracking these developments, the recent surge in anti-India speeches and events that are being organised in Western countries where Indian “influencers” are being invited on an all-expenses paid trip to share their views on the “religious intolerance” taking place in the country is related to this annual report releasing exercise, apart from making a fresh bid to present India as a country where religious persecution has increased manifold in the recent times.
What has also caught the attention of independent observers is the similarity in the “findings” of USCIRF when it comes to India and the propaganda that is spread by groups and individuals who are known to be working for Pakistan’s interests at the global level. The USCIRF, in 2014, changed India’s map, and removed Jammu and Kashmir, Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh from India. While J&K is regarded as “disputed” by Pakistan, Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh are termed as “disputed” by China, Pakistan’s “iron brother”. Maenza, who joined the USCIRF in 2018, had earlier worked for US politician Rick Santorum, a known friend of Pakistan. Maenza is also president of an organisation called “Patriot Voices”, which was founded by Santorum in 2012. Among her colleagues at Patriot Voices, is Terry Allen, who also happens to be a partner in a lobby firm called Fidelis Government Relations (FGR).
.....
Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chanakyaa »

He came, he spoke, he is gone..
U.S. sanctions coordinator Singh to leave White House temporarily -sources
U.S. President Joe Biden's deputy national security adviser, Daleep Singh, a key architect of global sanctions against Russia, plans to take an extended leave of absence in the near future, two people briefed on the situation said on Tuesday.

Singh is taking the leave to deal with a family issue, one of the people said. It is unclear exactly when his leave will start or end.
...
Cyrano
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

WTF ?

Pratyush
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

Why is this a surprise. This was expected from the day Biden was elected.

Biden is not in a position to any thing. People around him are using him to further whatever interests they are holding dear.

This is just the beginning.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

https://worldview.stratfor.com/situatio ... fic-allies

On April 7, NATO members agreed to increase cooperation with Australia, Japan, New Zealand and South Korea, and all four nations were invited to attend the April 8 NATO conference in Brussels, Nikkei Asia reported April 8

The real Asia Pacific military alliance contours
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