India needs time and some patience for some more time, 5 and 10 years from now things will look a lot different! Following our interests is the best course when things are not clear.Cyrano wrote:US has truly become a Rogue State.
Paranoid, nervous and unpredictable, dropping all pretenses of global good or rules based order etc and just being a senseless bully.
If India thinks that this relationship will somehow bring the US to a more constructive path - it's a mistake.
Just look at the presser above. All the doing good things Dr JS talked about seem to embarrass Blinken. He is feeling peer pressure of being laughed at in the white House corridors for being a wussy and letting the narrative slip away into some utopian crap from a 3rd world country.
We can no longer dismiss these Rand reports ityadi as some fringe elements. They are telling what the Rogue State want to hear and do. They are part of it. We've been forewarned.
India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Low-effort, low-accuracy India coverage of ‘New York Times,’ benchmark for Western media
https://www.theaustraliatoday.com.au/lo ... ern-media/
https://www.theaustraliatoday.com.au/lo ... ern-media/
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
India-based firm sanctioned by US for dealing in Iranian petroleum products
A Mumbai-based petrochemical trading firm is among entities sanctioned by the US for being part of a global network of companies allegedly involved in selling Iranian petroleum products worth hundreds of millions of dollars to end users in South and East Asia. This is the first time that an India-based entity has been sanctioned by the US for involvement in dealing with Iranian petroleum products. Iran was among India’s top three energy suppliers till May 2019, when the country stopped purchasing Iranian crude due to the threat of secondary sanctions by the US.
The US treasury department said on Thursday that Tibalaji Petrochem Private Limited “purchased millions of dollars’ worth of Triliance-brokered petrochemical products, including methanol and base oil, for onward shipment to China”.
Triliance is a Hong Kong-based broker with branches in Iran, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), China, and Germany that was sanctioned by the US in 2020 for providing financial and technological support to the National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC).
The US treasury department also accused Triliance of purchasing petrochemical and petroleum products worth millions of dollars from Iran-based petrochemical brokers Iran Chemical Industries Investment Company and Middle East Kimiya Pars Co and shipping them to India.
It described Triliance as “a critical component of Iran’s petroleum and petrochemical sectors, which brokers the sale of Iranian products to foreign purchasers”.
There was no immediate response from Indian officials or from Tibalaji Petrochem to the development. The Indian firm’s website describes it as a reputed and leading distributor of chemical, solvent, fertiliser, and polymer products in India.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
https://www.intelligenceonline.com/gove ... 826405-art
The CIA and Pakistan's ISI have buried the hatchet and started cooperating again, under the auspices of Pakistan's armed forces chief, after tough negotiations between William Burns and Faiz Hamid
"the quid pro quo for uke support is becoming more clear"
The CIA and Pakistan's ISI have buried the hatchet and started cooperating again, under the auspices of Pakistan's armed forces chief, after tough negotiations between William Burns and Faiz Hamid
"the quid pro quo for uke support is becoming more clear"
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Good to see US-India Initiative on Critical and Emerging Technologies -- it is an essential step to developing closer partnerships between the governments, academia, and industry in...the latest advances in AI, quantum computing, biotech, aerospace, & semiconductor manufacturing..
Take steps to encourage India’s transition away from Russian weapons: U.S. Congressional amendment
"..the amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act, says that India faces immediate and serious regional border threats from China, with continued military aggression by the Chinese people along the India-China border."
One reference of the story;A strong United States-India defence partnership rooted in shared democratic values is critical to advancing United States interests in the Indo-Pacific region
Take steps to encourage India’s transition away from Russian weapons: U.S. Congressional amendment
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
The point here being that they want us to transition to US weapon systems which is equally bad.
We need atmanirbharta and that's just it
We need atmanirbharta and that's just it
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
What are these steps would be my question. Hopefully not more CAATSA type rubbish.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
No wonder, He became a laughing stock after being delivered a zinger like only Dr. Jai Shankar can deliver - that too in Washington DC - the previous day. He still did not recover to be coherent. If one hasn't seen the whole interaction of the previous day , please do watch...Vayutuvan wrote:Did Secy. ever answer the ANI reporter's question re. why di Paxis need F16s to fight terrorists?He gave a non-answer. His tone was quite apologetic. Good.
On US Pak F16 announcement, EAM Jaishankar says,"everybody knows why F16s are deployed, you not fooling anybody'. ...,it is up to US to "reflect what are the merits of this relationship....Its not good for you, reflect on the history"
https://twitter.com/i/status/1574400287095525376
The *whole* interaction was a master piece .. If you have not seen it, please do watch (EAM or US official sites), talks about sheer stupidity/hypocrisy of Washington post and many other things.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
^^^ Dr. Jai Shankar's previous day interaction with us (primarily for Indian Americans) was masterful. He celebrated the good and *improving* relationship between US and India - contributions by people like us - (Who in the past government and in many circles are dismissed or mocked) and how we can positively help in setting the narrative.
Here is his piece about rags like Washington Post --
Link: https://twitter.com/i/status/1574406021451481088
Or .
Link:https://twitter.com/i/status/1574409669598400514
As said before, worth listening to full Q&A.
Here is his piece about rags like Washington Post --
"there are some newspaper you know exactly what they are going to write...Including one in this town"
Link: https://twitter.com/i/status/1574406021451481088
Or .
If removal of special status for J&K is "majoritarian, then tell me what was happening in Kashmir not majoritarian"
Link:https://twitter.com/i/status/1574409669598400514
As said before, worth listening to full Q&A.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Expect such 'bravado' and H&D saving stories..Recently they were bragging about Bilwal and a few Pakistanis (Pakstan's FM) being hosted by US State department for chai and biscuit .. till some one pointed out that reason SOS could not be there was because he was honoring Jai Shankar around the same time with 'dinner'.. they literally started whining... cant even make such things up..The CIA and Pakistan's ISI have buried the hatchet and started cooperating again... yada yada ...
(On to of that, Dr Jai Shankar was welcomed and had meetings with NSA, Department of Defense ityad ityadi ..)
Dr Jaishankar was coming to Washington after United Nations General Assembly - where India was mentioned by 12 leaders at this year's , most thanking India for its support amid covid, others lauding its role in peace (Both Ukraine and Russia praised India !!) and except for Turkey, Pakistani rant found no support..
No wonder they have to make up this kind of narrative ....Gives comfort to Pakis, some talking point for their enablers but nothing to panic about...
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Despite the overt displays such as podium sharing with Blinken and goard of honour salutes from Austin, there are signs of simmering tensions and tit for tat moves.
Visa backlog, oil purchases from Russia, mil aid to Pak, rejection of Pacific economic cooperation pact, trade deal on back burner, UNSC abstain vote, CIA cooperation with Pak... This seems to be the push and pull sequence obvious to anyone who cares to step back and see.
US is testing India's new found spine and openly displayed resolve. We cannot backtrack or let go anything in this semi-friendly match. Mowgli has to some how tame Sherkhan without getting within the reach of its claws and jaws.
Dr SJ has the most challenging job I can think of on the planet. The various global good topics he mentioned in the presser are designed to enlarge the relationship and alter the terms of the power equation. I have no doubt about India's sincerity here, but this wide agenda serves multiple purposes.
Visa backlog, oil purchases from Russia, mil aid to Pak, rejection of Pacific economic cooperation pact, trade deal on back burner, UNSC abstain vote, CIA cooperation with Pak... This seems to be the push and pull sequence obvious to anyone who cares to step back and see.
US is testing India's new found spine and openly displayed resolve. We cannot backtrack or let go anything in this semi-friendly match. Mowgli has to some how tame Sherkhan without getting within the reach of its claws and jaws.
Dr SJ has the most challenging job I can think of on the planet. The various global good topics he mentioned in the presser are designed to enlarge the relationship and alter the terms of the power equation. I have no doubt about India's sincerity here, but this wide agenda serves multiple purposes.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
In what is clearly a shift in attitude, US ambassador to Pak visits PoK and tweets about it calling in AJK.
The US is clearly up to some mischief for which it wants Pak's connivance therefore F16 spares sale, and India to lie low therefore this menace that we can revive a belligerent Pak at the drop of a coin, so India better keep quite, and actually fall in line with us and ditch Russia.
Petty, vengeful and myopic this Biden administrative is proving to be, again and again...
The US is clearly up to some mischief for which it wants Pak's connivance therefore F16 spares sale, and India to lie low therefore this menace that we can revive a belligerent Pak at the drop of a coin, so India better keep quite, and actually fall in line with us and ditch Russia.
Petty, vengeful and myopic this Biden administrative is proving to be, again and again...
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
The last few actions of a dying empire.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
That the US is a dying empire is yet to be ascertained IMO - they are simply too strong with all kinds of assets created since decades to just go belly up and die. They seem to be lost with internal tensions at many levels and trying to find an external cause to keep it all together. But this external cause ie Ukraine/Russia is turning out to be a headache and causing nervousness and paranoia, and making it react unpredictably and dangerously.
Provocation seems to be the flavour of the day, and malice towards all. Its a serious crisis for sure, but is it death throes ? I'm less sure of that.
Provocation seems to be the flavour of the day, and malice towards all. Its a serious crisis for sure, but is it death throes ? I'm less sure of that.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Its amazing since earlier this year, each time Dr. SJ has made assertive statements defending India on EU/US soil, US/EU/NATO does a tit-tat action (like toting Paki line &/or providing them with continued MIL support or giving passive support in instigating riots in India) in hope to show India its place...its like they don't place much value on Indo-US relation...even with all the increased trade & MIL interactions between the two countries, the relationship seems to be an after thought. Wonder who is advising State Dept/POTUS on India matters. Aren't there any bi-partisan pro-India caucuses at all? Or any sect within Dem party truly pro-India?
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
The dems have always shown a proclivity towards indo pak equal equal and its deeply entrenched in their mindset. Biden has learnt his ropes from Obama and much of the same seems under implementation. It's a political mindset and I hope we keep displaying the kind of spine we have off late. It's the only way that the US wakes from its slumber
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Unfortunately its not slumber. Its incompetence, nervousness and paranoia.
- Incompetence of this administration to set a clear vision for the country and set policy goals and mobilise the state machinery to achieve them. Since they are unable to set an agenda for themselves, they are getting pushed around by the deep state/MIC to make half assed policy calls and tit for tat decisions.
- Nervousness has set in at all levels of the administration because despite incompetence they realise they are fumbling along and the mid term elections won't be kind to the Dems.
- Paranoia because the decisions they have taken have set in motion major geopolitical shifts which they are struggling to control, forcing them to double down and take more risks. Any event thats unexpected or uncomfortable is immediately seen as an attack on their political future and triggers defensive-offence type reactions, even with friends or allies. India-US relations are an example. Taiwan visits, reviving Pak, Nordstream sabotage are some of the others.
Indian foreign policy engine is wise enough to avoid unnecessarily triggering the US and getting sucked into a downward spiral of tit for tat responses. At the same time, we are able to stand our ground where needed and appeal to reason, hopeful that some less idiotic people in this administration are able to see beyond their noses and temper the others.
I think thats the best we can do at the moment, and deal with anything thats thrown in our path.
- Incompetence of this administration to set a clear vision for the country and set policy goals and mobilise the state machinery to achieve them. Since they are unable to set an agenda for themselves, they are getting pushed around by the deep state/MIC to make half assed policy calls and tit for tat decisions.
- Nervousness has set in at all levels of the administration because despite incompetence they realise they are fumbling along and the mid term elections won't be kind to the Dems.
- Paranoia because the decisions they have taken have set in motion major geopolitical shifts which they are struggling to control, forcing them to double down and take more risks. Any event thats unexpected or uncomfortable is immediately seen as an attack on their political future and triggers defensive-offence type reactions, even with friends or allies. India-US relations are an example. Taiwan visits, reviving Pak, Nordstream sabotage are some of the others.
Indian foreign policy engine is wise enough to avoid unnecessarily triggering the US and getting sucked into a downward spiral of tit for tat responses. At the same time, we are able to stand our ground where needed and appeal to reason, hopeful that some less idiotic people in this administration are able to see beyond their noses and temper the others.
I think thats the best we can do at the moment, and deal with anything thats thrown in our path.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
https://news.abplive.com/india-at-2047/ ... ed-1556413
US-Pak F-16 Deal, India's Ukraine Stand: Two Irritants In India-US Ties And The Questions Being Raised
India expects US to be sensitive towards its national & strategic interests while dealing with Pak. Previous admins took care of these concerns, and India wants Biden admin to not change the course.
Ranjit Kumar, 03 Oct 2022
Two major developments in recent times, with a bearing on bilateral relations between the United States and India, have raised questions if respective national interests will come in the way of a strong strategic partnership not only for mutual benefit but also for the Indo-Pacific region. While the US decision to refurbish and upgrade the F-16 fighter fleet of Pakistani air force has irked the Narendra Modi government, India’s decision to not follow the US diktat of condemning Russia over its military invasion and grabbing of Ukrainian territory has created dismay in the White House and Foggy Bottom.
Both these issues were raised during the Washington meeting of Union Minister for External Affairs S Jaishankar and US Secretary of State Antony Blinken in the last week of September. While the two sides maintained their declared positions on the contentious issues of the US resuming military assistance to Pakistan and India ignoring US sanctions on Russia. Just three days after this meeting, India abstained for the 9th time on a US-sponsored resolution against Russia. As strategic partners, both expect to be mindful of each other’s security and strategic concerns.
India-US Ties Grew After Washington Started To Distance Itself From Pakistan
Just a day before meeting Blinken, Jaishankar bluntly took a dig at the US administration, saying: “You are not fooling anybody by saying these things”, referring to the US statement that the F-16 aircraft are meant to fight terrorists. He said this was like acquiring a gun to kill a mosquito.
During the media interaction after their talks, Blinken reiterated the established US formulation on F-16s: “Pakistan’s program bolsters its capability to deal with terrorist threats emanating from Pakistan or from the region. It’s in no one’s interest that those threats be able to go forward with impunity, and so this capability that Pakistan has had can benefit all of us in dealing with terrorism. Whether it is TTP that may be targeting Pakistan, whether it’s ISIS-Khorasan, whether it’s Al-Qaida, I think the threats are clear, well-known, and we all have an interest in making sure that we have the means to deal with them. And that’s what this is about.”
There are no takers for this assertion, at least in the South Block. India is bothered that the return of US policy of using Pakistan as a strategic springboard will revive the era of zero sum game in South Asia, when the US used to keep India and Pakistan hyphenated. This policy created trust deficit between the two biggest democracies, which are now being described as “natural allies”. In fact, former president Barak Obama’s famous adage, “defining partnership of the 21st century”, is often quoted in strategic circles.
When they met in the last week of September in Washington, the two foreign ministers vouched to maintain the strong bilateral relations, which saw an upward trajectory after the US started to maintain a safe distance from Pakistan whose policy of harbouring terrorists was characterised by the then US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in 2011 as rearing “snakes in the backyard”.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Slightly older article, apologise if already posted:
https://thediplomat.com/2022/04/india-u ... -doctrine/
India-US Relations and the ‘Jaishankar Doctrine’
This doctrine is grounded firmly in history and in two analytic divides: East vs. West and India’s political vs. non-political interests.
Raymond E. Vickery, Jr., April 28, 2022
The United States and India have just completed a ministerial dialogue between the U.S. secretaries of state and defense, Antony Blinken and Lloyd Austin, and their Indian counterparts, Minister of External Affairs Dr. Subrahmanyam Jaishankar and Minister of Defense Rajnath Singh. This “2+2 Dialogue” was preceded by a video conference between U.S. President Joe Biden and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, and both leaders said they looked forward to meeting again shortly in Tokyo.
Although the “2+2” was nominally focused on international security and was the first to occur since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the world’s two largest democracies paid relatively little attention to the largest international assault on democratic values since World War II and what Russia’s assault means for international peace and security.
In a joint statement remarkable for its 13-page length and the breadth of its coverage, only a short paragraph dealt with the situation in Ukraine. There was mention of a humanitarian crisis, a condemnation of civilian deaths, a call for the cessation of hostilities, and lip service to the principles of the United Nations Charter, but nothing more. Nothing about how these great democracies might work together to repair the damage done to international law, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of states, and the prevention of generalized war, particularly war involving nuclear weapons. There certainly was nothing in the joint statement about a Russian invasion of Ukraine.
The superficial reasons for this lack of attention to the harm being done to the international order by the Russian invasion of Ukraine and how it might be counteracted are obvious. Neither side wanted to get the U.S.-India relationship, which has grown and strengthened so much over the last thirty years, off track. Both sides consider themselves “natural and trusted partners” with a “growing convergence of strategic interests,” particularly in regard to China. Further, the U.S. and India have a wide range of common economic, health, and social issues vital to the wellbeing of both nations. India doesn’t want to offend Russia. It needs arms from Russia, wants cheaper Russian oil, and hopes to increase its relatively small trade with Russia. But there is something more at play in India’s hesitancy to work as a full partner of the U.S. in furthering international peace and security on the basis of India’s own democratic values when it comes to Russia and Ukraine.
This hesitancy can be more fully understood by examining Jaishankar’s framework for U.S.-India relations. Jaishankar’s views are of tremendous importance to the Modi government and to Modi himself. Not only has Jaishankar been the minister of external affairs since the start of Modi’s second term, but he became foreign secretary soon after Modi began his first term as prime minister, an office to which Modi arose without extensive experience in international security matters.
A thumbnail and easily accessible statement of Jaishankar’s international framework can be found in his talk to the Atlantic Council on October 1, 2019. This framework is important not only because of the office held by Jaishankar, but also because it is largely a distillation of the views of many Indians, particularly those of India’s traditional academic and governmental elites. Jaishankar holds a Ph.D. from Jawaharlal Nehru University and is personally and professionally connected to prominent Indian governmental circles.
.......
Gautam
The second article, if not posted earlier should be read in its entirety.
US-Pak F-16 Deal, India's Ukraine Stand: Two Irritants In India-US Ties And The Questions Being Raised
India expects US to be sensitive towards its national & strategic interests while dealing with Pak. Previous admins took care of these concerns, and India wants Biden admin to not change the course.
Ranjit Kumar, 03 Oct 2022
Two major developments in recent times, with a bearing on bilateral relations between the United States and India, have raised questions if respective national interests will come in the way of a strong strategic partnership not only for mutual benefit but also for the Indo-Pacific region. While the US decision to refurbish and upgrade the F-16 fighter fleet of Pakistani air force has irked the Narendra Modi government, India’s decision to not follow the US diktat of condemning Russia over its military invasion and grabbing of Ukrainian territory has created dismay in the White House and Foggy Bottom.
Both these issues were raised during the Washington meeting of Union Minister for External Affairs S Jaishankar and US Secretary of State Antony Blinken in the last week of September. While the two sides maintained their declared positions on the contentious issues of the US resuming military assistance to Pakistan and India ignoring US sanctions on Russia. Just three days after this meeting, India abstained for the 9th time on a US-sponsored resolution against Russia. As strategic partners, both expect to be mindful of each other’s security and strategic concerns.
India-US Ties Grew After Washington Started To Distance Itself From Pakistan
Just a day before meeting Blinken, Jaishankar bluntly took a dig at the US administration, saying: “You are not fooling anybody by saying these things”, referring to the US statement that the F-16 aircraft are meant to fight terrorists. He said this was like acquiring a gun to kill a mosquito.
During the media interaction after their talks, Blinken reiterated the established US formulation on F-16s: “Pakistan’s program bolsters its capability to deal with terrorist threats emanating from Pakistan or from the region. It’s in no one’s interest that those threats be able to go forward with impunity, and so this capability that Pakistan has had can benefit all of us in dealing with terrorism. Whether it is TTP that may be targeting Pakistan, whether it’s ISIS-Khorasan, whether it’s Al-Qaida, I think the threats are clear, well-known, and we all have an interest in making sure that we have the means to deal with them. And that’s what this is about.”
There are no takers for this assertion, at least in the South Block. India is bothered that the return of US policy of using Pakistan as a strategic springboard will revive the era of zero sum game in South Asia, when the US used to keep India and Pakistan hyphenated. This policy created trust deficit between the two biggest democracies, which are now being described as “natural allies”. In fact, former president Barak Obama’s famous adage, “defining partnership of the 21st century”, is often quoted in strategic circles.
When they met in the last week of September in Washington, the two foreign ministers vouched to maintain the strong bilateral relations, which saw an upward trajectory after the US started to maintain a safe distance from Pakistan whose policy of harbouring terrorists was characterised by the then US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in 2011 as rearing “snakes in the backyard”.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Slightly older article, apologise if already posted:
https://thediplomat.com/2022/04/india-u ... -doctrine/
India-US Relations and the ‘Jaishankar Doctrine’
This doctrine is grounded firmly in history and in two analytic divides: East vs. West and India’s political vs. non-political interests.
Raymond E. Vickery, Jr., April 28, 2022
The United States and India have just completed a ministerial dialogue between the U.S. secretaries of state and defense, Antony Blinken and Lloyd Austin, and their Indian counterparts, Minister of External Affairs Dr. Subrahmanyam Jaishankar and Minister of Defense Rajnath Singh. This “2+2 Dialogue” was preceded by a video conference between U.S. President Joe Biden and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, and both leaders said they looked forward to meeting again shortly in Tokyo.
Although the “2+2” was nominally focused on international security and was the first to occur since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the world’s two largest democracies paid relatively little attention to the largest international assault on democratic values since World War II and what Russia’s assault means for international peace and security.
In a joint statement remarkable for its 13-page length and the breadth of its coverage, only a short paragraph dealt with the situation in Ukraine. There was mention of a humanitarian crisis, a condemnation of civilian deaths, a call for the cessation of hostilities, and lip service to the principles of the United Nations Charter, but nothing more. Nothing about how these great democracies might work together to repair the damage done to international law, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of states, and the prevention of generalized war, particularly war involving nuclear weapons. There certainly was nothing in the joint statement about a Russian invasion of Ukraine.
The superficial reasons for this lack of attention to the harm being done to the international order by the Russian invasion of Ukraine and how it might be counteracted are obvious. Neither side wanted to get the U.S.-India relationship, which has grown and strengthened so much over the last thirty years, off track. Both sides consider themselves “natural and trusted partners” with a “growing convergence of strategic interests,” particularly in regard to China. Further, the U.S. and India have a wide range of common economic, health, and social issues vital to the wellbeing of both nations. India doesn’t want to offend Russia. It needs arms from Russia, wants cheaper Russian oil, and hopes to increase its relatively small trade with Russia. But there is something more at play in India’s hesitancy to work as a full partner of the U.S. in furthering international peace and security on the basis of India’s own democratic values when it comes to Russia and Ukraine.
This hesitancy can be more fully understood by examining Jaishankar’s framework for U.S.-India relations. Jaishankar’s views are of tremendous importance to the Modi government and to Modi himself. Not only has Jaishankar been the minister of external affairs since the start of Modi’s second term, but he became foreign secretary soon after Modi began his first term as prime minister, an office to which Modi arose without extensive experience in international security matters.
A thumbnail and easily accessible statement of Jaishankar’s international framework can be found in his talk to the Atlantic Council on October 1, 2019. This framework is important not only because of the office held by Jaishankar, but also because it is largely a distillation of the views of many Indians, particularly those of India’s traditional academic and governmental elites. Jaishankar holds a Ph.D. from Jawaharlal Nehru University and is personally and professionally connected to prominent Indian governmental circles.
.......
Gautam
The second article, if not posted earlier should be read in its entirety.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Best thing to do is go for Iranian oil.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Just a play in the game of establishing a new word order. It will get worse - it has to. Violence is the key to establishing stability in a chaotic system.g.sarkar wrote:https://news.abplive.com/india-at-2047/ ... ed-1556413
US-Pak F-16 Deal, India's Ukraine Stand: Two Irritants In India-US Ties And The Questions Being Raised
India expects US to be sensitive towards its national & strategic interests while dealing with Pak. Previous admins took care of these concerns, and India wants Biden admin to not change the course.
Ranjit Kumar, 03 Oct 2022
........................................................
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Secretary Antony Blinken @SecBlinken
United States government official
Our foreign policy will be more effective for all Americans when it better reflects the experiences of the American people. I’m very pleased to welcome back to the Department Ambassador Nina Hachigian as our first Special Representative for Subnational Diplomacy.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Here. Understand the real reason why Afghanistan was abandoned to the Taliban by the US last year.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/10/the ... tral-asia/
The Taliban Are Planning Their Move On Central Asia
Michael Rubin October 3rd 2022
The whole point of the US-Talib deal, completely unpublicized, was that once back in power they would resume their original (1996, v1.0) purpose: Islamist destablization of Central Asia, i.e. of Russia's southern flank. In other words, Zbignew Brzezinski koot-neeti is alive and well in Washington, and now that 9/11 is judged to be sufficiently recessed in public memory, it's time to implement all the strategies that led to it once again.
This was 8 months before Putin's Ukraine invasion, mind you.
Why am I posting this "OT" in the India-US thread? Because if you don't see why this US policy is going to impact India very directly, and in fact already is (PFI terrorism and F-16 gifts to Pakistan for example), you have a lot of BRF reading to do
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/10/the ... tral-asia/
The Taliban Are Planning Their Move On Central Asia
Michael Rubin October 3rd 2022
The whole point of the US-Talib deal, completely unpublicized, was that once back in power they would resume their original (1996, v1.0) purpose: Islamist destablization of Central Asia, i.e. of Russia's southern flank. In other words, Zbignew Brzezinski koot-neeti is alive and well in Washington, and now that 9/11 is judged to be sufficiently recessed in public memory, it's time to implement all the strategies that led to it once again.
This was 8 months before Putin's Ukraine invasion, mind you.
Why am I posting this "OT" in the India-US thread? Because if you don't see why this US policy is going to impact India very directly, and in fact already is (PFI terrorism and F-16 gifts to Pakistan for example), you have a lot of BRF reading to do
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
^^^^ This is certainly a wild theory; however it also will explain why the US is suddenly cozying up to the Pakfauj. The deal would have been to let loose Talibs to attack USSR from the south; however in order to keep them focused towards CIS rather than spill over into Pakistan it would be necessary to provide cover to the latter. Pakis would have understood unkil's plans in about 15 minutes after the intern proposed it at Langley, and would have demanded their blood money right away.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
The Turkey-paki-Azerbaijan attack on Armenia is also a project on similar lines. Pro Russian regimes in the region are being unstabilised one by one. IT export from TSP will be an essential component and unkil will foot the bill.
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- BRFite
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Dying empires are worst, they inflame their periphery first. I wonder if the Central Asia includes East Turk? probably not
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Next time the West makes noise about India and minorities, it should be made clear that we are supporting Christian Armenia in their fight for survival in a hostile neigbourhood of Islamist western allies Turkey, Azerbaijan & Pakistan.Dilbu wrote:The Turkey-paki-Azerbaijan attack on Armenia is also a project on similar lines. Pro Russian regimes in the region are being unstabilised one by one. IT export from TSP will be an essential component and unkil will foot the bill.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Has logic EVER worked with those West of India?yensoy wrote:Next time the West makes noise about India and minorities, it should be made clear that we are supporting Christian Armenia in their fight for survival in a hostile neigbourhood of Islamist western allies Turkey, Azerbaijan & Pakistan.Dilbu wrote:The Turkey-paki-Azerbaijan attack on Armenia is also a project on similar lines. Pro Russian regimes in the region are being unstabilised one by one. IT export from TSP will be an essential component and unkil will foot the bill.
The power lies in war reserves, not in UN charters or F-16 spare parts.
India is part of the bigger game plan. And, for most in the Neocon camp (Blinken, Nuland, Biden, Sullivan) in the US, India has taken sides, and it is not the US.
Analysis and logic need to be given a cremation ASAP.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
The middle eastern rogue state Qatar is an important cog in the US plans for India. They weild some influence with Taliban and Pakis, they fund PFI ityadi in India as well, and will activate anti India plans on Unkil's signal. Like the hijab row last time, something else can be triggered with whatever excuse to inflame India and weaken or at least distract the Govt and smear them before 2024.
I suspect Russian intelligence has been giving regular briefings to India, but even they may not sniiff everything. May be some unexpected Intel help may even from China (they have had a good Intel pénétration in the US for many years) to pull us away from perceived closeness to the US, but of course they will be extracting a price for it.
Not sure how active RAW is in the US, but given that we hear nothing on this front ever, either they are doing a damn good job or nothing at all.
We need to be really really watchful. All this 2+2 and I2U2s are to make us feel flattered and enlarge our blind spots while setting us up for a big backstab I feel.
I suspect Russian intelligence has been giving regular briefings to India, but even they may not sniiff everything. May be some unexpected Intel help may even from China (they have had a good Intel pénétration in the US for many years) to pull us away from perceived closeness to the US, but of course they will be extracting a price for it.
Not sure how active RAW is in the US, but given that we hear nothing on this front ever, either they are doing a damn good job or nothing at all.
We need to be really really watchful. All this 2+2 and I2U2s are to make us feel flattered and enlarge our blind spots while setting us up for a big backstab I feel.
Last edited by Cyrano on 05 Oct 2022 00:33, edited 1 time in total.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Subnational Diplomacy is just a new fancy term for the old British tactic of divide and rule !!
This is not the first time we are hearing this terminology. And Pappu's "India is a union of states" speech right after a secret phoren trip didn't come out of his ass by miracle. Someone reached inside and planted it there And Raj Mata keeps going to the US just like Kerala CM and surely others for treatment. Hope we are keeping a close watch on such trips and recording everything.
Time for a new BR Spy thriller by one of our gifted writers. Fact can be stranger than fiction.
This is not the first time we are hearing this terminology. And Pappu's "India is a union of states" speech right after a secret phoren trip didn't come out of his ass by miracle. Someone reached inside and planted it there And Raj Mata keeps going to the US just like Kerala CM and surely others for treatment. Hope we are keeping a close watch on such trips and recording everything.
Time for a new BR Spy thriller by one of our gifted writers. Fact can be stranger than fiction.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Given our penetration of the bureaucracy - we should have all sorts of intel on massa machinations - but who knows....
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
I think DUMBOS in SD realized NGOs are not working anymore.Cyrano wrote:Subnational Diplomacy is just a new fancy term for the old British tactic of divide and rule !!
This is not the first time we are hearing this terminology. And Pappu's "India is a union of states" speech right after a secret phoren trip didn't come out of his ass by miracle. Someone reached inside and planted it there And Raj Mata keeps going to the US just like Kerala CM and surely others for treatment. Hope we are keeping a close watch on such trips and recording everything.
Time for a new BR Spy thriller by one of our gifted writers. Fact can be stranger than fiction.
So they directly set up subnational dept officially to destabilize
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
definitely OT., but what kind of treatment does these worthies need that India cant provide ?., India is a major destination for medical tourismvijayk wrote:I think DUMBOS in SD realized NGOs are not working anymore.Cyrano wrote:Subnational Diplomacy is just a new fancy term for the old British tactic of divide and rule !!
This is not the first time we are hearing this terminology. And Pappu's "India is a union of states" speech right after a secret phoren trip didn't come out of his ass by miracle. Someone reached inside and planted it there And Raj Mata keeps going to the US just like Kerala CM and surely others for treatment. Hope we are keeping a close watch on such trips and recording everything.
Time for a new BR Spy thriller by one of our gifted writers. Fact can be stranger than fiction.
So they directly set up subnational dept officially to destabilize
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
So true., time and again many BRFites have tried analysing the US ., when in fact the US did what it wanted ., because it can do what it wants., how can one "logically" analyse the US.NRao wrote:Has logic EVER worked with those West of India?yensoy wrote: Next time the West makes noise about India and minorities, it should be made clear that we are supporting Christian Armenia in their fight for survival in a hostile neigbourhood of Islamist western allies Turkey, Azerbaijan & Pakistan.
The power lies in war reserves, not in UN charters or F-16 spare parts.
India is part of the bigger game plan. And, for most in the Neocon camp (Blinken, Nuland, Biden, Sullivan) in the US, India has taken sides, and it is not the US.
Analysis and logic need to be given a cremation ASAP.
The only logical analysis with the US is that there is no logic., in such a situation go by what they do , what they don't (directly, indirectly and covertly) and NEVER by what they say.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
Something just clicked in my mind when reading that sub-national diplomat tweet by Blinken. They are appointing all shady types to the consulates while the position of the ambassador in Delhi is empty for almost two years. So looks like their focus is on this "sub-national diplomacy" at the expense of dealing with GoI, which is divide and rule with some ulterior motive behind it. So there is perhaps some method to this apparent incompetence in appointing an envoy to the world's largest democracy and an important trading partner.
Can't help but think 2024 is less than two years away-.
Can't help but think 2024 is less than two years away-.
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- BRF Oldie
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
The Biden administration WRT to India-US relations has been a shit show right from the start.
1. Insists on Freedom of Navigation between India and its island states.
2. Within weeks of gaining office withhold key chemical and biological components for COVID-19 vaccine manufacture while India gets hit with Delta variant. Poonawala begs on Twitter that Biden admin release for sale to manufacture vaccines to save millions.
3. Provides lethal weapons to terrorists in the ill planned AfPak withdrawal. Night vision, stinger missiles & US made munitions show up in Kashmir by next spring.
4. Unnecessarily becomes hostile to oil & gas industry raising global energy prices while developing countries like India are trying to recover from coronavirus economic slow down. India ramps up on coal energy, now over 70% of KWHr generated by coal, since natural gas less economically viable.
5. More racially motivated attacks on Indian-Americans and targeting Hindu organizations in the US.
6. Lecture India on supporting the Ukraine war and disrespect India sovereignty. At the same time increasing war rhetoric with the potential of nuclear war. The Russians behaved badly, but the US is equally behaving badly by prolonging this conflict. De-escalation and exit ramps have shut down.
7. Approve the FMS of maintaining the PAF F-16 fleet so they can more effectively kill Indian people.
8. No US ambassador to India in nearly 20 months, but that may be a blessing in disguise given the level of incompetence of the Biden/Harris regime.
1. Insists on Freedom of Navigation between India and its island states.
2. Within weeks of gaining office withhold key chemical and biological components for COVID-19 vaccine manufacture while India gets hit with Delta variant. Poonawala begs on Twitter that Biden admin release for sale to manufacture vaccines to save millions.
3. Provides lethal weapons to terrorists in the ill planned AfPak withdrawal. Night vision, stinger missiles & US made munitions show up in Kashmir by next spring.
4. Unnecessarily becomes hostile to oil & gas industry raising global energy prices while developing countries like India are trying to recover from coronavirus economic slow down. India ramps up on coal energy, now over 70% of KWHr generated by coal, since natural gas less economically viable.
5. More racially motivated attacks on Indian-Americans and targeting Hindu organizations in the US.
6. Lecture India on supporting the Ukraine war and disrespect India sovereignty. At the same time increasing war rhetoric with the potential of nuclear war. The Russians behaved badly, but the US is equally behaving badly by prolonging this conflict. De-escalation and exit ramps have shut down.
7. Approve the FMS of maintaining the PAF F-16 fleet so they can more effectively kill Indian people.
8. No US ambassador to India in nearly 20 months, but that may be a blessing in disguise given the level of incompetence of the Biden/Harris regime.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
We all know that there were people in foggy bottom who were itching for this Cold War 2.0 moment for over two decades now. All the niceties of polite diplomatic jostling with JS aside, at the end of the day from the US pov India is seen as siding with Russia. This is 1971 redux with india standing with USSR and US standing with TSP. Even though today’s Russia is not in the league of USSR politically or militarily, India has refused to abandon an old ally who in the past stood with us in an hour of need, and rightly so. There will be a cost to pay for this decision and US is in a good position to extract it.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
It was so amusing to watch some US based posters go giddy at Bidenwa-Maami assuming office.
Largest Democracies, shared values, natural alignment for a new world order, destined to come closer and what-not...
Largest Democracies, shared values, natural alignment for a new world order, destined to come closer and what-not...
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- BRF Oldie
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
I'm still waiting for the Nobel Prize laureates and Fields Medal winners to join the administration.Manish_P wrote:It was so amusing to watch some US based posters go giddy at Bidenwa-Maami assuming office.
Largest Democracies, shared values, natural alignment for a new world order, destined to come closer and what-not...
The Secretary of Energy & Transportation make the worst Indian politicians look like geniuses.
Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV
I was a lot more optimistic about the Dems compared to unreliable and uncouth Trump. But this administration turned out nothing like I was expecting. Quite the opposite. In the end any US administration is driven by self interest and preserving hegemony. Reps and Dems are just seasonal flavours.
Coming back to US F16 sales to Pak and India's concerns, I think what we've been told is that it's not against you, but something else. For the moment it might be true.
The US doesn't want the new axis of evil Russia, Iran, China, NoKo to solidify and become a bigger threat. A colour revolution has been triggered in Iran once again, and we'll known thugs for hire in the region Pakis and Talibunnies are being readied to contain the oppressive regime in Iran, thus weakening it's resolve and ability to support Russia. And with a degree of separation to dissuade India from straying too far.
And of course destabilising Iran has multiple repercussions for other central Asian games, but the immediate task is to stop Russia from getting active support from anyone in the form of drones or anything else.
Taiwan visit provocations were a warning to China against assistance to Russia irrespective of all pacts and hand holding between Putin and Xi.
For the next few months, Russia will remain the focus. They have increased the stakes there and MIC can make a lot more money in Europe rearming depleted stocks of NATO allies than any other adventure at the moment.
No one really gives a **** about Ukra-een as it joins other illustrious countries for sale like Pak and Afg.
India needs to be watchful, by being a less compliant ally/friend/partner (designation doesn't matter,
only degree of compliance does) we have joined the ranks of unreliable but potentially useful countries like France. Big banks have engineered a brilliant regime change in France by getting Macron elected twice. The fire sale of Alstom and certain nuclear and turbine technologies he made to GE was itself worth it. Even most French people are oblivious to this fact that US controls their govt and media directly and indirectly through EU.
So State Department is uber confident they can put in place a pliable regime anywhere they want in any open society with "democratic values" and "freedom of press". Except Putin whom they did not put in. Like NaMo.
Expect very creative and concerted efforts to ensure regime change in India, even ruthless ones like what PFI funded by Qatar was planning.
Elsewhere it was posted that Dove All got briefed by an old friend post which PFI got some long overdue attention. Many more such will be attempted...
Coming back to US F16 sales to Pak and India's concerns, I think what we've been told is that it's not against you, but something else. For the moment it might be true.
The US doesn't want the new axis of evil Russia, Iran, China, NoKo to solidify and become a bigger threat. A colour revolution has been triggered in Iran once again, and we'll known thugs for hire in the region Pakis and Talibunnies are being readied to contain the oppressive regime in Iran, thus weakening it's resolve and ability to support Russia. And with a degree of separation to dissuade India from straying too far.
And of course destabilising Iran has multiple repercussions for other central Asian games, but the immediate task is to stop Russia from getting active support from anyone in the form of drones or anything else.
Taiwan visit provocations were a warning to China against assistance to Russia irrespective of all pacts and hand holding between Putin and Xi.
For the next few months, Russia will remain the focus. They have increased the stakes there and MIC can make a lot more money in Europe rearming depleted stocks of NATO allies than any other adventure at the moment.
No one really gives a **** about Ukra-een as it joins other illustrious countries for sale like Pak and Afg.
India needs to be watchful, by being a less compliant ally/friend/partner (designation doesn't matter,
only degree of compliance does) we have joined the ranks of unreliable but potentially useful countries like France. Big banks have engineered a brilliant regime change in France by getting Macron elected twice. The fire sale of Alstom and certain nuclear and turbine technologies he made to GE was itself worth it. Even most French people are oblivious to this fact that US controls their govt and media directly and indirectly through EU.
So State Department is uber confident they can put in place a pliable regime anywhere they want in any open society with "democratic values" and "freedom of press". Except Putin whom they did not put in. Like NaMo.
Expect very creative and concerted efforts to ensure regime change in India, even ruthless ones like what PFI funded by Qatar was planning.
Elsewhere it was posted that Dove All got briefed by an old friend post which PFI got some long overdue attention. Many more such will be attempted...