India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

On what basis were you optimistic?

BTW Trump did a lot of good things for India.

You should think through all the twists since Biden became President.

And reflect was this his personal inclination or is it so called US deep state?

I don't know. Am asking.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12186
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

The American conduct towards the world is pure balance of power politics.

Post 91 Russia was not a threat. While it's hard to say what direction it would have taken. If the US has kept it's side of the agreement for the final settlement in Germany.

But that's water under the bridge. The US actions in eastern Europe have brought us where we are.

When it comes to India, the US knows that India is going to be a useful tool in dealing with PRC.

The problem from US POV is that they don't have a concept of partnership amongst equals. The only concept is either you are a poodle or an enemy.

The most glaring demonstration of this was the treatment of the French for not supporting the invasion of Iraq.

An India that has the temerity to seek a partnership of equals with US will be cut down without mercy.

The above is a statement of problem.

The solution has to be to Cap, reduce and eliminate the US ability to exert power in the next few decades.

The US is a beneficiary of skilled migration from the developing world to its own shores. That in turn gives it massive productivity boost and allows it to augment it's strength. While creating significant pockets of influence in the doner countries.

India needs to act in ways that reduces the skilled migration from India to the US. Also reduce the off shoring opportunities for the US within India. So that it is no longer able to benefit from Indian skills.
Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8266
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Dilbu »

Pratyush wrote:Post 91 Russia was not a threat. While it's hard to say what direction it would have taken. If the US has kept it's side of the agreement for the final settlement in Germany.
Post 91 Russia was deemed as not much of a threat by US and attention was focused else where until Putin built up the coffers and started challenging western schemes on world stage away from Russia's immediate periphery. I think it was Russian involvement in Syria and its effectiveness which finally gave credence to those in SD and EU who were arguing that cold war is not over and if left unchecked Russian bear will become strong again.
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

All US "allies" are just tools to be used , a means to further their agenda. "Use" Uke against Russia., India against China, Japan against China , they create leverage in countries like Pakistan, Ukraine, Taiwan etc ., their focus has long been on the middle east with its oil resources., but now they are eying a grand strategy to perpetuate their hegemony and engage and cull rising geopolitical powers.

Within India it seems they are trying to "engage" state administrations to promote discord., their ambassador choice is a shady enough character to do the "job" ., witness what they say and do publicly., making a grand show and feting JS and RS ....
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Ramana garu,
My optimism came from the fact that many Indian-Americans seemed to support the Dems and there are several Indian names in the administration, who I hoped would be different from Pramila Jaypal types. I hoped the people to people bridge we keep talking about was becoming effective enough to influence mutually beneficial policies.
But, while I hate to paint all Indian-Americans with the same broad brush, it seems the melting pot transforms them more than we care to admit. Or despite obvious economic success, Indian-Americans and India as a whole do not exert (yet) the level of influence needed to materialize such a win-win policy direction.

Perhaps our US based forumites can opine if such optimism was ahead of time or if it can ever bear fruit.

Plus my own biases cumulated over time. But for some unexpected events in life a couple of decades ago - which I absolutely do not regret - I could have very well ended up becoming an(other) Indian-American instead of settling on the vieux continent.
Last edited by Cyrano on 05 Oct 2022 12:09, edited 1 time in total.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12186
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

Dilbu wrote:Post 91 Russia was deemed as not much of a threat by US and attention was focused else where until Putin built up the coffers and started challenging western schemes on world stage away from Russia's immediate periphery. I think it was Russian involvement in Syria and its effectiveness which finally gave credence to those in SD and EU who were arguing that cold war is not over and if left unchecked Russian bear will become strong again.
We are going in the OT territory with continuation of the discussion. But a detailed study of the timelines will show that until 2006-07 even Putin was open to good relationship with the west.

Only during and after this specific time period. Putin, started to become explicitly anti US and west in general. But even there he was able to maintain working relationship with the French and to a certain extent the Germans.

This discussion can be taken elsewhere. As it's not relevant to the Indo US relationship.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12186
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

Cyrano ji,

I am in India and was not very optimistic about the direction the Indo-US relationship. If the democratic party was going to win in the US elections.

My reasons for that belief were as follows.

1) the democratic party post 2013-14, had been completely taken over by intersectional social justice warriors.

2) the hounding of Donald Trump over a completely made up Russia gate and his impeachment over Ukraine.

3) the attempted cultural revolution in the US in the aftermath of George Floyd death.

4) discussion in one of the state senate having democratic party super majority about new abortion laws. Where one of the experts is calmly explaining that she supported abortion upto and after the moment of birth.

Completely ignoring the fact that once a live birth has happened. Killing that baby is infanticide.

Only after the republicans rasied a hue and cry in other parts of the country did this aspect of the law was removed from proceedings.

5) a picture of Donald Trump was published when he was making his first presidential visit to Japan.

He was following the lead of the then Japanese PM Shinzo Abe. In paying respect to the Japanese dead.

The US media cropped out PM Abe, whose lead Trump was following. An out of context picture was used by the US and rest of the world media to show the cultural insensitivity of Donald Trump.

If US media can lie about such things, then what else they are lying about. Becomes an open question.

After a point such a society in general stops being able to distinguish between what is real and what is not. Then they try to export this thought process overseas.

An elite that has gotten away with such actions within the country and has escaped consequences for reckless destabilisation of other countries. Will continue with such actions with any country that has not bend it's knees in submission.

Trump however uncouth. From an Indian point of view, was fundamentally an honest US president.
ricky_v
BRFite
Posts: 1134
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ricky_v »

I would like to ask a question to the members: what makes the constituents of the deep state, deep state material? I asked this many moons ago on the forum on whether the deep state had a manual on how to defraud your people for a few shekels more. I believe that the deep state had 2 distinct advantages when it came fully to its authority that are negated now:

1) the racial makeup: every american is 1/57 native or african, 1/63 mcd grease, that does not make "it" white as before, i cannot be the only one who remembers the one-drop rule. How it affects on a societal level:
mixed families, no strong familial ties or historic pride or prejudice, no support from wider familial community but from a similar mixed communal pot
mostly single families
broken homes
gender dysphoria

2) feedback loop: in the earlier days, it was easier to have a reinforced feedback loop within your small community and reinforce this to form a wider corpus and indoctrinate the newer brood, the generation that has grown up a global common terminology, online gaming community, content creator fandoms forces the earlier indoctrination to be diluted; it was easier to be dicks before out of a misguided attempt of doing good (genuine) or being straight up insidious to peoples whose custom was "other"; there is no ignorance of any culture for the current crop and the next generation.

Why would the deep state continue displaying its characteristics based on the above points?, sure, the isolated elite with proper breeding and training may ascend the ladders and continue the policy-making, but the onus of its enforcement and wider consensus building would rest on the machinery comprised of the hoi-polloi.

Also recall that the roman empire towards its end had paid mercenaries as their own citizen were unwilling to volunteer for armed forces, something that is very visible in the us today.
a_bharat
BRFite
Posts: 724
Joined: 07 Aug 2009 09:54

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by a_bharat »

I think US is following its set course with respect to India. US doesn't want India to rise. It sees India as a potential long term threat and would like to weaken India's internal fabric and break up India. In this respect, its interests coincide with those of China.

Once you accept this fact, everything makes sense -- the $hit that emanates from NYT, WaPo and sundry democracy index institutes.

Please watch the following video, particularly second half. Abhijeet Chavda talks about this.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

a_bharat wrote:I think US is following its set course with respect to India. US doesn't want India to rise. It sees India as a potential long term threat and would like to weaken India's internal fabric and break up India. In this respect, its interests coincide with those of China.

Once you accept this fact, everything makes sense -- the $hit that emanates from NYT, WaPo and sundry democracy index institutes.

Please watch the following video, particularly second half. Abhijeet Chavda talks about this.

[youtube]dy3saoLmbCg]
And yes their ambassador choice is a very good indication of their real goals.
madhu
BRFite
Posts: 730
Joined: 12 Oct 2005 17:00
Location: India

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by madhu »

Kidnapped Sikh Family, Including 8-month-old Baby, Found Dead in California Orchard

Looks like there is an increase in Hinduphobia or hate on Hindus all over the world. Not sure if this use to happen before and not getting highlighted or just because India is growing/ due to Modi, hate on Hindus started all over the world. I see the same behavior in UK, Canada, Australia also.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Nothing in the news report says the murders were racially motivated. So why are we inferring this?
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

ricky_v
BRFite
Posts: 1134
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ricky_v »

ricky_v wrote:
ramana wrote:
Ramana sir, if we consider this situation from luttwak's pov, then it must be considered holistically.
https://defense.info/book-review/2020/0 ... to%20both.
The most important foundation for Luttwak’s theory is that strategy has two dimensions in which its logic unfolds. In the vertical dimension, five different levels—technical, tactical, operational, theatre, and grand strategic—interact but also conflict, because no natural harmony exists between them. In the horizontal dimension, the contest of wills between belligerents plays out through a dynamic interrelationship between action, reaction, culmination, overextension, and reversal.
This dynamic interrelationship between belligerents, or their systemic interaction and its cumulative invisible course correction resulting from such interactions should dictate the transient flow of strategic relations. A particular viewpoint is to consider the interaction of civilisations as popularised by Huntington, but it often ignores the point that the character and outlook of these civilisations and the people inhibiting and expanding the civilisation is dynamic at different speeds.

When we thus posit that any country may inhibit cooperation with another for strategic gain, we must also consider the action, reaction, culmination, overextension, and reversal of such decisions are examined under the parameters of technical, tactical, operational, theatre, and grand strategic which are usually in conflict. To guide these differences then there must be an overarching philosophy that aids the decision-making process of the 5 civilisation states which consequently frames their vast system-of-systems and which may be more or less than the traditional concept of a nation; it would be germane to consider the interaction between value system(s) offered by the civilisation-nation.

Value system
#1 USA / Post-modernism - the most agile outlook of the participants, current outlook born of american evangelicalism, colour relations, settler sensibilities and the hippie movement.
It offers freedom and democracy not only from autocratic regimes but from the yoke of history and familial relations and seeks to form a new world order bereft of their scrutiny.


#2 China / Constant Mandate of Heaven - seeks to break the cyclical nature of the mandate of heaven and provide for a constant ruler.
Action - Internally strengthen the position / heft of the chairman
Reaction - against encroachment of influence on vassal states
Culmination - syncretic approach of internal and external infrastructure, coupled with monetary manufacturing policies
Overextension - economic stability
Reversal - loss of territory

#3 India /??

#4 Russia / Symposium - symbiotic relationship of the government / institution in power and the church (may expand to include mosques).

#5 EU / ?? Perhaps the Green Movement
Action - Make the Mediterranean Sea as the middle province, expand EU till subsahara.
Given Putin's speech, i find it pertinent to repost this, maybe the mods can move the discussion surrounding the op by ramanaji and subsequent replies to a newer thread as it deserves some attention at the current stage.

As i have stated, imo,
1) us: wants to own and change the rules based order, cue build back better, crt
2) china: cynical follower of the rules based order
3) india: only upholder of the rules based order, changes in incremental terms by appropriate forums, leader of the global south
4) russia: i had said previously a cynical user of the rules based order, putin categorically stated that they reject this order as the rules are now unacceptable to them
5) eu: minstrel to the master's voice as has been evidently been proven, jupiter reborn has been muzzled following the election, olaf with the greens of baberock have vision / philosophy that are not human friendly
krithivas
BRFite
Posts: 683
Joined: 20 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: Offline

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by krithivas »

Story: 'Fake heiress' released to house arrest, fights deportation
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fake- ... 55e0f159dc

An interesting stipulation that violates the Freedom of Speech:
"An immigration judge cleared the way Wednesday for Sorokin to be released to home confinement while the deportation fight plays out. She is wearing an ankle monitor and had to post a $10,000 bond, provide an address where she'll stay, and agree not to post on social media"

And now the rest: What did the Indian Shariat Court judge state about Zoobear's bail approval? -- "Can't stop him from posting in social media?"
dnivas
BRFite
Posts: 494
Joined: 05 Dec 2008 05:54

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by dnivas »

yensoy wrote:US has replied to DrSJ https://www.rediff.com/news/report/indi ... 220927.htm
"We don't view our relationship with Pakistan, and on the other hand, we don't view our relationship with India as in relation to one another. These are both partners of ours with different points of emphasis in each," State Department Spokesperson Ned Price told reporters at his daily news conference.
......added.

Please note the quotes immediately above this line are pure figments of my imagination.
India should collate all the quotes from foreign officials for the last 20 years and use the exact same quotes back to them.
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10032
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

https://twitter.com/palkisu/status/1578385558895591429
First a $450 million F-16 aid package to Pak.
Then US envoy visits Pak-occupied Kashmir.
What’s worse he calls it Azad Kashmir(AJK),not UN term Pak Administered Kashmir(PAK).
2nd visit by a US official to PoK this yr.
India conveys “objection.”
Strategic ally’s classic subterfuge
S_Madhukar
BRFite
Posts: 513
Joined: 27 Mar 2019 18:15

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by S_Madhukar »

The danger with incompetent people especially politicians is that they know they are incompetent but are worried about being exposed by others. Usually a free media would have put a cap on actions of such people but now without that scrutiny their incompetence is more likely to be exposed globally if things don’t go their way. That will be dangerous for the world. We can clearly see that with the tit for tat actions. In some ways it mirrors the way UT MVA govt was behaving trying to exercise power as autocrats not democrats.
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8760
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vijayk »

He was all over India for not joining west in crushing Russia 4 months ago. When Atlanticists are trying to bring Pakis/Kashmir to needle India, he writes this. Is is bad cop/good cop game?
Derek J. Grossman. @DerekJGrossman
I believe we are living through the “golden era” of Indian foreign policy. For the first time, New Delhi is engaged everywhere and serving as a strategic crossroads of great power competition. India may well become a great power itself soon.
https://www.rand.org/blog/2022/06/modis ... rived.html

Modi's Multipolar Moment Has Arrived

n every crisis, someone always benefits. In the case of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, that someone is Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. By refusing to condemn Moscow and join Western-led sanctions, Modi has managed to elevate India's global stature. Each of the other major powers—the United States, Russia, and China—are intensely courting India to deny a strategic advantage to their adversaries. Relishing the spotlight, Modi and his Hindu-nationalist government will surely look to keep the momentum going. Their likely goal is to carve out an independent superpower role for India, hasten the transition to a multipolar international system, and ultimately cement its new status with a permanent United Nations Security Council seat for India.

None of this negates the fact that the United States has become India's most important strategic partner. The two nations have made enormous progress in recent years. Since 2018, New Delhi and Washington have held annual summits and signed numerous groundbreaking security agreements. Both nations are part of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue (known as the Quad), along with Australia and Japan. At the Quad summit in Tokyo last month, Modi met U.S. President Joe Biden in person for the second time, complementing the two nations' ongoing virtual discussions.
Biden and Modi met virtually during the kickoff of the so-called 2+2 dialogue in Washington. Following the meeting, it was clear that Biden had accepted Modi's position. The U.S. readout noted the two leaders would continue their “close consultations” on Russia, with no indication that Washington was prepared to take any action against New Delhi. Additionally, India did not have to condemn Russia or make any other concessions, such as curbing or terminating its import of cheap Russian oil.

These trends will contribute to India's rise to great-power status and shift the global system toward even greater multipolarity.

Subsequent statements from the White House clearly indicate that Washington will not be pushing New Delhi any further, probably for fear of ruining cooperation on countering China in the Indo-Pacific. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, for instance, said in April that “India has to make its own decisions about how it approaches this challenge.” And in Tokyo last month, Biden said, “I am committed to make the U.S.-India partnership among the closest we have on Earth” in spite of differences regarding Russia. In their joint statement, only Biden condemned Russia; Modi did not. It was the only instance of glaring daylight between the two leaders' positions.
And in the Indo-Pacific, Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida, when asked about India at last month's Quad summit, said: “Each country has its own historical developments as well as geographical situation. Even amongst like-minded countries, the positions may not agree fully. That is only natural.” Although Australia's new prime minister, Anthony Albanese, has only been on the job for a few weeks, he met with Modi on the sidelines of the Quad summit and boasted that bilateral relations “have never been closer” in spite of what Albanese said were “strong views” exchanged on Russia during the Quad's proceedings.

Russia's war in Ukraine has undoubtedly benefited India as great powers are competing more vigorously for New Delhi's affection, particularly the United States and China. India has also prevented its Russia policy from spoiling partnerships with key European and Indo-Pacific partners. These trends, if sustained, will contribute to India's rise to great-power status and, in turn, shift the global system toward even greater multipolarity. What could derail New Delhi's success is a serious escalation in the Russia-Ukraine conflict, which might finally force India to choose sides among great powers. Partners that have so far tolerated India's aloof, realpolitik approach could become frustrated that New Delhi is refusing to carry its weight as an emerging great power. But unless or until this happens, Modi's India is set to continue benefiting from this horrific crisis.
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news ... rget-delhi
Anti-India elements in U.S. using Ukraine as excuse to target Delhi
Abhinandan Mishra, October 8, 2022

Officials are extending arms support to Pakistan and delaying US visas to Indian citizens under the pretext of conveying anger over India’s decision to take a neutral stand in the Ukraine-Russia war.
NEW DELHI: India’s principled stand on the Russia-Ukraine war is being used by anti-India forces in the United States to stir up trouble on the India-US front. These forces have been active ever since Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s rise to power in 2014, given their antipathy towards him since the time he was Gujarat Chief Minister. Some of these US officials are not openly opposing New Delhi’s refusal to look askance towards the Russian invasion of Ukraine because of the challenges the US is facing in containing China and the acceptance in Capitol Hill that India is paramount in US policy to stop China from becoming a global hegemon.
However, these officials are executing other options available to them, including extending arms support to India’s traditional rival and China’s iron brother, Pakistan and delaying US visas to Indian citizens (as The Sunday Guardian reported on 2 October, Victoria Nuland’s Stealth Sanctions against India) under the pretext of conveying their anger over India’s decision to take a neutral stand in the Ukraine-Russia war which strategists in Delhi believe is necessary for greater global multipolarity.
The Congressional Research Service (CRS), which exclusively serves as nonpartisan staff to US Congressional committees and Members of Congress and provides “timely, objective, and authoritative research and analysis to committees and Members of both the House and Senate”, in a report, titled, “India-Russia Relations and Implications for US Interests”, submitted to the US Congress recently, brought out the underlying emotions among officials in Washington over India’s stand which is perceived by these officials as “pro-Russia”.
CRS reports are created “for the sole purpose of supporting Congress in its legislative, oversight, and representational duties’ and ‘new products are regularly produced to anticipate and respond to issues of interest to Congress on a timely basis”. Under the heading, “US Indo-Pacific Strategy and Options for Congress”, the report has stated that, “By most accounts, the importance of India in US national security planning has led American officials to accept (or at least tolerate) New Delhi’s neutral posture toward the Russian invasion of Ukraine. After initially admonishing India for its posture toward Russia, Administration officials moderated their rhetoric, and the readouts of the April 2+2 Dialogue in Washington, DC, and the May Quad summit in Tokyo indicated leaders sought to highlight convergent Indo-Pacific strategies and not allow the war in Ukraine to derail a focus on Asia.”
In the next part, it goes on to describe the options that US officials can use to force India to take a harder stand on Russia. It also states that the US has still not sent a full-time Ambassador to India since January 2021 when the tenure of Kenneth Ian Juster came to an end. Generally, a new Ambassador flies to Delhi within six months of the vacancy happening. It has been more than 20 months now.
The report also goes on to suggest that one of the options available to officials is sanctioning Indian officials found to be involved in “violence” against sections of the population. “Congress could consider whether or not to employ means of encouraging India (and other US partners) to scale back their links with Russia. These could take the form of incentives, such as amending U.S. law to further facilitate arms sales to India or reinstating India as eligible for the Generalized System of Preferences, a US trade and development program from which India was removed in 2019. New US financial commitments to India’s energy or other sectors through bodies such as the Export-Import Bank, Development Finance Corporation, or Trade and Development Agency are further potential incentives. In its engagement with the United States, India seeks closer trade ties, better market access, more cooperation in fields of health and emerging technologies, and more cooperation on clean energy, especially with investment and technology. In addition to potential secondary sanctions on Indian purchases of Russian arms, other disincentives are also possible.”
“For example, during a June 2022 Senate hearing discussion on Russian oil purchases, one Senator noted, ‘We are exploring the idea of secondary sanctions here’ (the Administration has not ruled out such sanctions).” Going further, one independent analyst has called for the United States to “abandon ‘strategic altruism’ and demand more of India”. Among the suggested policy shifts are imposing sanctions on India for its purchases of Russian arms, and ending the alleged “India exception” on human rights by designating it as a Country of Particular Concern (CPC) under the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998, and sanctioning Indian officials found to be involved in anti-Muslim violence. To date, the Senate has not confirmed a US Ambassador in New Delhi. (A hearing for President Biden’s nominee, Eric Garcetti, has met with multiple delays.) At 18 months and counting, this is the longest-ever gap in US-India diplomatic history and is identified by some as a hindrance to greater progress in the relationship.
......
Gautam
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12186
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

If the Americans want to permanently damage and end any possibility reprochment with India. Then they should go ahead and impose sanctions on India.

I think that we will be happy with the end result.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

as The Sunday Guardian reported on 2 October, Victoria Nuland’s Stealth Sanctions against India
Can someone dig out this article and post it here? This is very intriguing, Nuland is always up to no good.
Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8266
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Dilbu »

M.D. Nalapat
Victoria Nuland’s Stealth Sanctions against India
As a Senator, Joe Biden had always been a team player, which means that he ultimately followed the instructions given by the top leadership of the Democratic Party. For eight years (1993-2001) this was President Bill Clinton, and from that time onwards, Biden had been content to defer to Hillary and Bill on most matters of policy. The Clintons could not be described as admirers of Barack Obama before, during and after a Presidency in which Vice-President Biden was second in protocol rank across his country. It was welcomed by Biden when President Obama adopted a Clinton Lite model in his first term, filling his administration less with his own supporters than with favourites of Hillary and Bill. In 2016, although he was the obvious choice for nomination as his party’s candidate for the Presidency after Obama, loyalty to the Clintons made him disregard the deathbed wish of his brilliant, idealistic son Beau, who wanted him to stand for election as President. Had it been Smiley Joe rather than Scowly Hillary as the Democratic Party candidate for the White House, it is close to certain that Biden would by now have been in the final stretch not of his first term but his second. Hillary Clinton was a gift to the Republican side, just as Biden would be to the Republican side, were he to stand again in 2024. Given his fealty to the Clintons, it comes as no surprise that Joe Biden, the Champion of Democracy vs Autocracy, has yet to visit India as the US President, or that he was instrumental in clearing the transfer of spares worth nearly $500 million to the Pakistan military, which is visibly making preparations for joining the PLA in a joint offensive against India. However, what has been an even deadlier blow, this time less to the government or military of India than to the people, has been the fact that it has become next to impossible for a citizen of India to get a visa to travel to the US, although such a situation remains not at all reciprocal.

A Communist Chinese citizen can get a visa for travel to the US in two or three days, but a citizen of India has to wait two or three years for the privilege. This has been explained away by Secretary of State Antony Blinken as being the consequence of staffing cuts caused by the Covid-19 pandemic. It may be that Blinken actually believes the flimsy lie that he has been fed by those lower down the food chain in the US administration. Those in the know of activities in Foggy Bottom claim that the policy of visa denial to citizens of India was put on steroids by Under-Secretary of State Victoria Nuland after her Delhi visit that took place early in the year. Not used to having countries outside the Atlanticist group turn down her commands, Nuland inwardly fumed when South Block refused to scrap the S-400 deal and join the crusade against Russia that she has long been a champion of. If Blinken were to look into the mail and voice trail of the origins of his department’s Visa Denial to Indians policy, he would easily be able to track the individuals who are succeeding in punishing several in this country who are empathetic to the US. Just as China was delighted by Biden’s 2022 pivot from China to Russia and from Asia to Europe, Beijing must be gloating over the fact that business to business linkages between India and the US are going for a toss simply because travel from India to that country is practically becoming impossible for citizens of the world’s most populous democracy. But for the chokehold suggested, according to insiders, by Under-Secretary Nuland on the giving of US visas to Indian citizens, trade and investment between the two countries would have expanded by much more than they nevertheless have. The Visa Denial for Indians policy has become a form of collective punishment imposed in retaliation for India not following the Nuland way on S-400 or on Ukraine, a path that is leading to trade disruptions, famine, unrest and a looming repeat of the Great Depression of the 1930s. Friends and relatives seeking to participate in the marriage of their friends are unable to do so, tourists wanting to see the US are blocked in that desire. In multiple ways, people to people contact between the two largest democracies on the globe is being nuked, even while US visas are available as easily as buying an ice cream cone in Beijing or Shanghai.

Seeking to fool the people of India through lavish dollops of “utterly butterly” praise has long been a diplomatic staple in the global circuit. That same technique was used days ago by Antony Blinken to mask the reality of his department’s vicious visa policy towards India, a policy designed to punish the people of India for the refusal of their government to join Japan and South Korea in reflexively obeying Nuland’s diktat in the manner expected of non-Atlanticist countries. As a consequence, loved ones have fallen ill and died in the US without being able to meet for the last time friends and family from India. Earlier, both Presidents Clinton and Bush imposed an inhuman policy of sanctions on the people of Iraq for their “crime” in not rising up suicidally against the murderous Saddam Hussein Tikriti. What is being implemented by Secretary of State Blinken appears to be a deliberate policy of Sanctions by Stealth. Those in the US Congress and elsewhere who are genuinely seeking a US-India security and defense partnership that would keep the Indo-Pacific free of attempted hegemony need to make themselves heard, before the closet foes of the India-US partnership still being indulged in the Biden White House do further damage to India-US relations. Of course, it must be admitted that such a course by Washington delights not just Beijing but Moscow as well.
rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4451
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by rsingh »

I do not think that business visa or group travel visa are affected. May be I have wrong information. All my relatives have 10 year visa. If not what stops us to do reciprocal slap..It yt guys are going coming to Europe in hoard. The India is growing, why not to work in India?Really ambitious people stay in Indiaas I am told.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

I wrote this for a friend.

"Ukraine war is much more than an arms lobby. It might have benefited them but it's more like the death struggle of the West. Its like the fall of Rome in 404AD which brought the German Barbarian to power. They took about 1000 years to become 'civilized' but they ended the Church's domination over the state. Russia has been challenging Germanic Europe since the 1750s. Now it is coming to a head. The US needs India on its side as being neutral is like being on Russia's side. India being on Russia's side gives them legitimacy.*"

If it is true then it's more than Biden's chacha machinations. It's the whole West led by US deep state at work.

So expect a lot of turmoil in the world as we see West Godzilla falling down.

Panicker in 1960s wrote there are only four natural powers: the US, Russia, China, and India. Any combination of the three will finish the other.
Throughout the Cold War India stood neutral but was forced to side with Russia when the US sided with China in 1971.
For a moment India stood alone when Russia under Yeltsin and Kozyrev went suicidal. That is when PVNR decided on the TN.
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/11/politics ... index.html
Tulsi Gabbard, who sought 2020 Democratic nomination, says she’s leaving party
Shawna Mizelle, October 11, 2022

Former congresswoman and 2020 presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard announced on Tuesday that she is leaving the Democratic Party.
For Gabbard, the announcement is the culmination of years in which she has been increasingly at odds with the Democratic Party and its policies.
“I can no longer remain in today’s Democratic Party. It’s now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoking anti-white racism, who actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms enshrined in our Constitution,” Gabbard said in a video posted to social media. The announcement was made on the first episode of her new podcast, “The Tulsi Gabbard Show.”
Gabbard, who made history by becoming the first American Samoan and practicing Hindu in Congress following her election in 2012, also criticized what she said were Democrats’ “open border” policies and anti-police rhetoric.
The former congresswoman, who represented Hawaii’s 2nd district, has long been a unique and occasionally controversial voice in the Democratic Party.
As one of the Democratic presidential contenders in the crowded 2020 field, she touted herself as an Iraq War veteran and staked out a distinctly anti-interventionist foreign policy. On the campaign trail, she blamed US intervention in Latin America for creating instability that triggered the surge in migration across the southern US border and was a co-sponsor of several bills aimed at keeping migrant families together at the border.
......
Gautam
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8760
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vijayk »

Dumbocrats are trending She is a Russian, Putin agent etc... Dumbocrats became like MAGA idiots
vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3982
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vera_k »

rsingh wrote:I do not think that business visa or group travel visa are affected. May be I have wrong information. All my relatives have 10 year visa. If not what stops us to do reciprocal slap..It yt guys are going coming to Europe in hoard. The India is growing, why not to work in India?Really ambitious people stay in Indiaas I am told.
Anyone who wants to work or study in the USA on a visa is not affected. People wanting to visit the USA without a pre-existing visa are affected. This would affect people wanting to travel for tourism or business.
Visas
gakakkad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4667
Joined: 24 May 2011 08:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by gakakkad »

vera_k wrote:
rsingh wrote:I do not think that business visa or group travel visa are affected. May be I have wrong information. All my relatives have 10 year visa. If not what stops us to do reciprocal slap..It yt guys are going coming to Europe in hoard. The India is growing, why not to work in India?Really ambitious people stay in Indiaas I am told.
Anyone who wants to work or study in the USA on a visa is not affected. People wanting to visit the USA without a pre-existing visa are affected. This would affect people wanting to travel for tourism or business.
Visas
Indian students bring in billions of dollars . Most stem grad courses would remain unfilled without india and China .
H1 makes significant contribution to economy.
They want to send a message to India without affecting there economy .
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

What is Tulsi Gabbard party? People should join it.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

When German Europe resolved its Church and State dilemma it embarked on colonization to exploit the world. The first shock was 1857 war of independence. Ninty years later led to start of decolonization
US jumped in to exploit without colonization in classical sense. It worked as long as Cold War was there fir the world got a dual system to choose. After winning the Cold War, West is now without purpose and reverted to exploitation without constraints. Now it's facing pushback.
vinod
BRFite
Posts: 979
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vinod »

ramana wrote:When German Europe resolved its Church and State dilemma it embarked on colonization to exploit the world. The first shock was 1857 war of independence. Ninty years later led to start of decolonization
US jumped in to exploit without colonization in classical sense. It worked as long as Cold War was there fir the world got a dual system to choose. After winning the Cold War, West is now without purpose and reverted to exploitation without constraints. Now it's facing pushback.
There is a big difference now. The world is quite different. New cold war wont exactly be in west's favoir. We have stronger China, India, and Middle east. US now embarks on de-globalization. Its sanctions galore for anyone who stands in way. There is so much Modi and Dr. JS can do to avoid it. It is just a matter of time. The downward spiral is speeding up.
SRajesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2061
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by SRajesh »

https://www.deccanherald.com/internatio ... 53815.html
OMG! :lol:
Sleepy Joe is already making Conciliatory noises
AJK by Ambassador Germanic boo-boo and now Sleepy Joe!!
And no word from Mudi :rotfl:
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5383
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_P »

^^ That's just the old equal=equal tune being played...
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12060
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

It is high time. Better late than never I must say. I hope it is not a case of a little too late and a little too short. 100k is a good beginning but there are 250K+ folks patiently waiting in the queue for a long time now.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 16 Oct 2022 20:39, edited 1 time in total.
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5350
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cain Marko »

:?:
ramana wrote:What is Tulsi Gabbard party? People should join it.
She hasn't yet made a decision on this...
rrao
BRFite
Posts: 195
Joined: 13 Feb 2007 22:17

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by rrao »

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 885872.cms

Bajwa went to USA and got $450 million dollars worth of spares for F-16 and other tofas from their masters and now Biden says pakistan one of the most dangerous nations... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: . The agenda may be :

1. supply arms to ukraine
2. keep pot boiling in indian borders..

what a game ...
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

Or Pakis lost some nukes. The survey after floods revealed that?
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

https://indianexpress.com/article/world ... l-8214870/

Indian-American appointed to Homeland Security’s Faith-Based Security Advisory Council
Chandru Acharya currently serves on the Planning Commission of Canton Township, Michigan, and earlier served as a commissioner on the Michigan Asian Pacific Affairs Commission.

Acharya is the lone Hindu voice in this committee of 25 distinguished faith leaders from the United States, a media release said on Monday.
He is known in the Hindu American community and interfaith forums for building bridges with various faith communities through dialogue and peace initiatives, it said.

Over the last two decades, Acharya has been actively involved with diverse community organisations that work locally and nationally for social equity and pluralism, said the release. Raising cross-cultural awareness among children, embracing inclusivity by working across faith lines during challenging times such as the Covid pandemic, representing a voice of the minority Hindu Americans during incidents of ‘Hinduphobia’, and providing cultural sensitivity training to the local officials are some of his widely acknowledged accomplishments, the release stated.

Acharya currently serves on the Planning Commission of Canton Township, Michigan, and earlier served as a commissioner on the Michigan Asian Pacific Affairs Commission.
He is the president of South Asian American Voice of Impact, an advisory board member of the Detroit Indian Women’s Association, a board member of India League of America, a Plymouth Canton Interfaith member, an advisory board member of the Michigan Indian Community Service, and a national board member of the Hindu Swayamsevak Sangh, USA.
He was also a board member of the Interfaith Leadership Council of Detroit.
Post Reply