India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Mar 2021 21:51

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/1 ... ing-477144

Austin meets with India’s Modi as U.S.-China summit gets off to rocky start
The U.S. has sought for years to strengthen its partnership with India through increased military cooperation.

Note that this article is written by a piece of exceptionally scummy character named Lara Seligman. She is a budding Michael Kugelman: a paid mouthpiece for Pakistani and Chinese propaganda embedded within the US political-media and think-tank circuit in the guise of a "serious" writer on national security and foreign policy.

If the name sounds vaguely familiar, it's probably because she first came to our attention trying valiantly (if falsely) to cover up Pakistan's loss of an F-16 to Abhinandan's MiG 21: Remember this? https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/di ... t-says-no/

So anyway, here are some examples from her latest piece of sniping at India from under the cover of objective neutrality:

...
Austin’s arrival in New Delhi marks the third stop on his first overseas trip as Pentagon chief and comes after visits to Japan and South Korea for meetings with Secretary of State Antony Blinken and their Japanese and Korean counterparts. After his discussions with Modi, Austin will meet with India's national security adviser, the senior defense official said. On Saturday, Austin will sit down with the ministers of defense and external affairs.

The U.S. has sought for years to strengthen its partnership with India through increased military cooperation, particularly with the Indian Navy, and arms sales. But one snag could be India’s purchase of the advanced Russian S-400 missile system. The U.S. imposed sanctions on NATO ally Turkey for its own purchase of the S-400 under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, but has not yet penalized India for the same acquisition.

India’s potential operation of the S-400 would pose a problem for the U.S.; the system was designed to detect and target advanced U.S. fighter jets such as the F-35.
...

The senior defense official declined to say whether the U.S. was weighing sanctions over the S-400, but noted that the system has not yet been delivered to India, an event that would likely trigger penalties.

“Buying U.S. equipment is not a condition for advancing cooperation, our advancing cooperation is based on a converging of strategic interests,” the senior defense official said, adding that buying equipment that can operate together "is certainly a means to be able to operationalize that partnership.”

Another senior defense official declined to comment on whether Austin would speak with Indian officials about Modi’s harsh treatment of India’s Muslim population, but said “we routinely raise issues of human rights.” That the spokesperson "declined to comment" on this matter is an excellent indicator of the kind of loaded questions slippery Seligman has been asking... no?

...

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 19 Mar 2021 22:12

This S-400 business is puzzling.

Was there ever hope that India buys or leases the F-35? Don't think this was ever on the cards. All there has been have been occasional news about possible F-16/F-18 contracts. Perhaps there were plans to sell or gift the F-35 to Pakistan and China?

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 19 Mar 2021 22:39

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-defe ... es-2394697
"Thrilled" To Be In India: US Defence Secretary To Focus On Expanding Ties
India is the third stop for Lloyd Austin during his three-nation first overseas visit as the US Defence Secretary, and the visit is seen as a reflection of the Joe Biden administration's strong commitment to its relations with its close allies and partners in the region.
Press Trust of India March 19, 2021
New Delhi: Beginning his three-day India visit, US Defence Secretary Lloyd J Austin today said the breadth of Indo-US cooperation reflected the significance of "major defence partnership" as they work together to address the "most pressing" challenges facing the Indo-Pacific region.
Mr Austin arrived here as part of his three-nation first overseas tour as the Defence Secretary, and the visit is seen as a reflection of the Joe Biden administration's strong commitment to ties with its close allies and partners in the region. Austin visited Japan and South Korea before India.
In the evening, Lloyd Austin called on Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
"Thrilled to be here in India. The breadth of cooperation between our two nations reflects the significance of our major defense partnership, as we work together to address the most pressing challenges facing the Indo-Pacific region," he tweeted.
Welcoming Mr Austin, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said his visit to India is definitely going to further deepen the cooperation and partnership between two countries.
.....
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/us-d ... 210319.htm
Predator drones, fighter jets in focus as US defence secretary arrives for talks
Source: PTI, March 19, 2021
.......
His visit to India came days after the top leadership of the Quad grouping of India, the US, Japan and Australia vowed to expand their cooperation in the Indo-Pacific region.
Ahead of Austin's visit, Senator Robert Menendez, chairman of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, wrote a letter to the US defence secretary, urging him to take up with Indian leaders the issue of New Delhi procuring Russian S-400 missile defence system.
Though democracy and human rights issues do not come under the domain of the Pentagon, Menendez also urged Austin to raise these concerns with Indian leaders.
In October 2018, India signed a USD 5 billion deal with Russia to buy five units of the S-400 air defence missile systems, notwithstanding a warning from the Trump administration that going ahead with the contract may invite US sanctions.
Recently, the US imposed sanctions on Turkey under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) for purchase of S-400 missiles from Russia.
The evolving situation in the Indo-Pacific region in the wake of China's increasing military muscle flexing has become a major talking point among leading global powers. The US has been favouring making Quad a security architecture to check China's growing assertiveness.
The visit is also taking place at a time when India and China are looking to achieve the objective of disengagement from all friction points in eastern Ladakh after completing withdrawal of troops in the North and South banks of Pangong lake areas.
.....
Gautam

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 20 Mar 2021 00:10

https://twitter.com/iMac_too/status/1372898874054963208

iMac_too @iMac_too
Biden's Fool: "America is back"
Chinese bully: "Go suck your thumb, kid"
Mike Cernovich @Cernovich

Watch until the end. Utterly brutal. Completely outclassed.

This is bad, folks.

Watch the video

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Mar 2021 00:41

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 20 Mar 2021 01:54

Hmm. Signatories to that letter include the following senators...

11 Republicans:
James Birsch, ID
Marco Rubio, FL
Ron Johnson, WI
Mitt Romney, UT
Rob Portman, OH
Rand Paul, KY
Todd Young, IN
John Barrasso, WY
Ted Cruz, TX
Mike Rounds, SD
Bill Hagerty, TN

9 Democrats:
Robert Menendez, NJ
Benjamin Cardin, MD
Christopher Coons, DE
Christopher Murphy, CT
Tim Kaine, VA
Edward Markey, MA
Cory Booker, NJ
Brian Schatz, HI
Chris Van Hollen, MD

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 20 Mar 2021 02:02

The prime mover in this case appears to be Robert Menendez, Democrat from New Jersey. Interestingly, Rutgers University (home of Audrey Truschke, which defended her Hinduphobia on the pretext of "academic freedom" is also the state-funded public university of New Jersey.

I cannot believe that in NJ, which has one of the USA's largest concentrations of Indians, they are getting away with this.

AkshaySG · Post by **AkshaySG** » 20 Mar 2021 02:09

Rudradev wrote:Hmm. Signatories to that letter include the following senators...

All of them together constitute the Senate Foreign Relations committee which Menendez heads

https://www.foreign.senate.gov/about/membership

Most are yes men of their majority leaders.. I doubt many of them have actually done their research about this thoroughly

But having an equal number of Repubs and Dems is just to tell their constituents that there is "bipartisan" support for this bill/idea/demand etc

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 20 Mar 2021 02:11

It's worth viewing this in two separate contexts. US-India and US-Russia. Something like Truscke is US-India, but the S400 love letter writing thing is 100% a US-Russia thing, even though it's a transaction between Russia and India. It may seem directed at us, but they're essentially neurotic about Russia, and the presidential election baggage and Biden recently calling Putin a 'killer' only makes it worse.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 20 Mar 2021 02:24

After the Alaska debacle, the Chinese FM Wang Yi has invited Russia's foreign affairs minister Sergei Lovrov. The Biden administration is like a deer caught in headlights, it does not have a clear cut policy on dealing with China or Russia or India . Its like the old saying when all you have is a hammer then every problem starts looking like a nail, with the new US administration each time they deal with a foreign country, the only problem that comes to their mind is human rights. One thing is for sure, by the end of Biden's term irrespective of his foreign policy success or failure he will have successfully forged a stronger relationship between China and Russia, India will have to be agile because we certainly wont find many friends in DC anymore.

Also, despite our huge diaspora , our population, our economy and a rising brand image we have consistently been outsmarted by the pakis and even the rag-tag khalistanis when it comes to lobbying and PR. This is one area EAM and Modi administration has failed to fix in their foreign policy.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 20 Mar 2021 02:32

Rudradev wrote:The prime mover in this case appears to be Robert Menendez, Democrat from New Jersey. Interestingly, Rutgers University (home of Audrey Truschke, which defended her Hinduphobia on the pretext of "academic freedom" is also the state-funded public university of New Jersey.

I cannot believe that in NJ, which has one of the USA's largest concentrations of Indians, they are getting away with this.

Rudradevji, just before the pandemic when Vivek Agnihotri was visiting the US he was invited by some student bodies to speak about Kashmir, its history and article 370 at the Princeton Univ. His visit coincided with abolishment of article 370 and the early days of anti-CAA protests. The humanities faculty and some woke student bodies in Princeton forced the cancellation of his talks, and since there was significant interest in listening to him some approached a prominent temple in NJ as an alternate venue, but after initially agreeing the temple too cancelled the program saying it did not want to get involved in "politics"! At last he was forced to speak in a small hall in one of the local Indian restaurants. Such is our state in US, UK, Canada or wherever we are in large numbers, we simply lack the unity and political spine.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 20 Mar 2021 02:41

IIRc, it was Rutgers and not Princeton. No harm in shaming and making name of the so called temple if the report is confirmed. Though I didn't run into any confirmed report but it's also not surprising if it did happen as all are afraid of their visa statuses and ability to go back and forth.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 20 Mar 2021 02:58

I stand corrected it was Rutgers and not Princeton, Princeton too has its share of hinduphobic faculty and student bodies . I think it was in Princeton where Rajiv Malhotra was once gheraoed by a bunch of leftists during his talk. I don't know which temple but it was in Edison, NJ. My friend was one of the organizers and when Vivek Agnihotri did speak he was heckled by few pakis in the audience.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 20 Mar 2021 03:24

Academia in the US, especially the Arts, Humanities, Social Sciences and allied departments has been completely taken over by the Uber woke. The few who may not be part of that cult are too scared to speak out lest they lose their livelihoods. Now we know we have our own versions of these cretins infesting cesspools like JNU in India. Predictably, the Indian and "South Asian" faculty in these departments are cut from the same cloth and as a result Hindus have become untermenschen for this cabal (along with Jews and white males on a local scale in the US). Of course, they will try and mask their Hindu hate by calling it Brahminical Patriarchy, a term coined by their compatriots in India and used liberally because it closely resembles "White Patriarchy". Any Hindu who doesn't agree with the woke orthodoxy can be named and shamed using this epithet regardless of whether he/she actually is a Brahmin and notwithstanding the fact that the person making the accusation might themselves nominally a Brahmin but is considered pure, having been cleansed of their Hinduness by the Church of Wokeitude.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Mar 2021 03:31

Suraj wrote:It's worth viewing this in two separate contexts. US-India and US-Russia. Something like Truscke is US-India, but the S400 love letter writing thing is 100% a US-Russia thing, even though it's a transaction between Russia and India. It may seem directed at us, but they're essentially neurotic about Russia, and the presidential election baggage and Biden recently calling Putin a 'killer' only makes it
worse.

the S-400s block off the F-35 sales to India forcing the US to cut out a potentially large (and maybe captive) customer.

It is the S-400 that has forced the US to remove turki as part of the F-35 systems sub assembly and supply chain

so there may be a large element of US self interest too

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 20 Mar 2021 03:34

Even before the S400 deal happened, the F-35 was never officially offered to India, nor did the IAF seem keen on acquiring it.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Mar 2021 03:35

Ambar wrote:I stand corrected it was Rutgers and not Princeton, Princeton too has its share of hinduphobic faculty and student bodies . I think it was in Princeton where Rajiv Malhotra was once gheraoed by a bunch of leftists during his talk. I don't know which temple but it was in Edison, NJ. My friend was one of the organizers and when Vivek Agnihotri did speak he was heckled by few pakis in the audience.

isn't it also where narayan murty has "contributed" a hundred million U$D

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Mar 2021 03:37

nachiket wrote:Even before the S400 deal happened, the F-35 was never officially offered to India, nor did the IAF seem keen on acquiring it.

Sirji, with the US, offering and arm twisting are not so very different.

the forces are worried about sanctions and "all eggs in one basket" syndrome

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 20 Mar 2021 06:26

Rudradev wrote:The prime mover in this case appears to be Robert Menendez, Democrat from New Jersey. Interestingly, Rutgers University (home of Audrey Truschke, which defended her Hinduphobia on the pretext of "academic freedom" is also the state-funded public university of New Jersey.

I cannot believe that in NJ, which has one of the USA's largest concentrations of Indians, they are getting away with this.

Most NRIs blindly vote Democrat. They think this is a demographic they have in a strait-jacket. Many of the older ones are scarred by old time republican racist types. Many among the new generation is still in the grip of wokism, hasnt had the opportunity to have their minds cleared by the real world. Result is in front of you.

I dont think democrats are any less racist than repubs and wokism is basically yet another ploy by mediocre white activist class to grab social leadership.

What we need is agent-provocateurs, who can really get under the skin of these people, arent afraid of some jail time and can elicit over reactions that can then be used to unify the community. At least in a few states, we can be the swing vote. I think it needs to start from universities that have large numbers of Indian students, Rutgers being a prime candidate.

Another thing to do by the older generation is to be more visibly Hindu. Tilak, ethnic clothes once in a while, and a proud uncompromising tone about these things.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 20 Mar 2021 06:46

Ambar wrote:After the Alaska debacle, the Chinese FM Wang Yi has invited Russia's foreign affairs minister Sergei Lovrov. The Biden administration is like a deer caught in headlights, it does not have a clear cut policy on dealing with China or Russia or India . Its like the old saying when all you have is a hammer then every problem starts looking like a nail, with the new US administration each time they deal with a foreign country, the only problem that comes to their mind is human rights. One thing is for sure, by the end of Biden's term irrespective of his foreign policy success or failure he will have successfully forged a stronger relationship between China and Russia, India will have to be agile because we certainly wont find many friends in DC anymore.

Also, despite our huge diaspora , our population, our economy and a rising brand image we have consistently been outsmarted by the pakis and even the rag-tag khalistanis when it comes to lobbying and PR. This is one area EAM and Modi administration has failed to fix in their foreign policy.

The seeds of a Hindu genocide are being sowed in the west. Between the leftist-Islamists and the EJs on the right. At this rate by the end of this decade.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 20 Mar 2021 07:08

Rudradev wrote:Hmm. Signatories to that letter include the following senators...

11 Republicans:
James Birsch, ID
Marco Rubio, FL
Ron Johnson, WI
Mitt Romney, UT
Rob Portman, OH
Rand Paul, KY
Todd Young, IN
John Barrasso, WY
Ted Cruz, TX
Mike Rounds, SD
Bill Hagerty, TN

9 Democrats:
Robert Menendez, NJ
Benjamin Cardin, MD
Christopher Coons, DE
Christopher Murphy, CT
Tim Kaine, VA
Edward Markey, MA
Cory Booker, NJ
Brian Schatz, HI
Chris Van Hollen, MD

Count again. There are 11 Democrats and 11 Republicans in the letterhead. You forgot Jeanne Shaheen (D), NH and Jeff Merkley (D), OR. I have not seen signatures of anyone else except that of Robert Menendez (D), NJ unless it is somewhere else. This maybe an initiative of Menendez himself as chairman who sent the letter to Sec Def deliberately attempting to undermine relations. In other letters that are endorsed, the other members actually sign them.

Ted Cruz participated in the Howdy Modi event in Sep. 2019 and even gave positive interviews to Indian TV journalists.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 20 Mar 2021 08:24

Ambar wrote:
Rudradev wrote:The prime mover in this case appears to be Robert Menendez, Democrat from New Jersey. Interestingly, Rutgers University (home of Audrey Truschke, which defended her Hinduphobia on the pretext of "academic freedom" is also the state-funded public university of New Jersey.

I cannot believe that in NJ, which has one of the USA's largest concentrations of Indians, they are getting away with this.
Rudradevji, just before the pandemic when Vivek Agnihotri was visiting the US he was invited by some student bodies to speak about Kashmir, its history and article 370 at the Princeton Univ. His visit coincided with abolishment of article 370 and the early days of anti-CAA protests. The humanities faculty and some woke student bodies in Princeton forced the cancellation of his talks, and since there was significant interest in listening to him some approached a prominent temple in NJ as an alternate venue, but after initially agreeing the temple too cancelled the program saying it did not want to get involved in "politics"! At last he was forced to speak in a small hall in one of the local Indian restaurants. Such is our state in US, UK, Canada or wherever we are in large numbers, we simply lack the unity and political spine.

I've heard similar stories about hindu temples absolutely refusing to exhibit anything related to FACT and bangla genocide by Gautier or benkin. Were flatly told "what will muslims and other religious feel if they visited temple? It will hurt their feelings." Although I'm not really sure when bhailog actually last visited temple

I've known people on the forefront of this battle literally being ground to the dust by indian establishments and board members. They'd rather be"nice" and show how fair minded they are. Pathetic.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 20 Mar 2021 09:35

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-china-bid ... 55595.html
AFP: With Russia and China, Biden reveals diplomatic style: no kid gloves
Francesco FONTEMAGGI, Fri, March 19, 2021
Two months after taking office, US President Joe Biden is revealing his diplomatic style -- and he certainly has not minced words in the first dealings of his term with Washington's top rivals.
He called Russian leader Vladimir Putin a "killer," and his negotiators pelted a Chinese delegation with tough accusations in their first bilateral talks -- revealing a take-no-prisoners approach to Moscow and Beijing.
Biden's predecessor Donald Trump "had a personal affinity for strongman autocrats. He admired them," said Thomas Wright, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington. But the administration of the veteran Democrat is "worried that authoritarianism has been on the march, and they believe that democracies need to work more closely together to push back." Experts certainly expected a more traditional approach to diplomacy under Biden -- who long served on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and then as vice president -- than was seen under Trump, who favored statecraft by tweet. But so far, and especially in the last few days, Biden's forceful style has turned some heads.
When asked in an interview with ABC News if he believed Putin was a "killer," the 78-year-old Biden agreed without hesitation. And when his aides were asked if he'd gone too far, they insisted he did not regret his words. It's not the first time that Biden showed a bit of swagger in his dealings with Putin or Chinese leader Xi Jinping. In early February, he warned of "advancing authoritarianism" in China and Russia.
On Putin, Biden said he had made it clear to his counterpart, "in a manner very different from my predecessor, that the days of the United States rolling over in the face of Russia's aggressive actions -- interfering in our elections, cyberattacks, poisoning its citizens -- are over."
He said Xi didn't have a "democratic bone in his body" and warned after a call with the Chinese leader that if the United States doesn't "get moving" on China policy, "they're going to eat our lunch."
While the language may seem to reflect Trump's no-holds-barred style, the context is rather different.
"Trump actually had a bigger problem with US allies. Trump routinely got more angry at allies than he would at rivals," Wright said.
Biden's tough talk falls under his wish to combat authoritarianism and defend America's values and concepts about human rights.
.....
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://news.yahoo.com/us-china-trade-a ... 26950.html
US and China trade angry words at high-level Alaska talks
Fri, March 19, 2021
US and Chinese officials have exchanged sharp rebukes in the first high-level talks between the Biden administration and China, taking place in Alaska.
Chinese officials accused the US of inciting countries "to attack China", while the US said China had "arrived intent on grandstanding". Relations between the two superpowers are at their most strained for years.
The US pledged to raise contentious issues such as Beijing's treatment of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang.
The ill-tempered talks in Anchorage involved Secretary of State Antony Blinken and National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan on the US side, facing off with China's most senior foreign policy official, Yang Jiechi, and foreign minister Wang Yi.
However, a US official said the subsequent talks behind closed doors had been "substantive, serious and direct" and ran over the planned two hours.
In a blunt opening statement before the talks in private, Mr Blinken said the US would "discuss our deep concerns with actions by China, including in Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Taiwan, cyber attacks on the United States, economic coercion of our allies".
"Each of these actions threaten the rules-based order that maintains global stability," he said.
In response, Mr Yang accused Washington of using its military might and financial supremacy to suppress other countries.
"It abuses so-called notions of national security to obstruct normal trade exchanges, and incite some countries to attack China," he added.
Mr Yang said human rights in the US were at a low point, with black Americans being "slaughtered".
......
Gautam

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 20 Mar 2021 12:11

Suraj wrote:It's worth viewing this in two separate contexts. US-India and US-Russia. Something like Truscke is US-India, but the S400 love letter writing thing is 100% a US-Russia thing, even though it's a transaction between Russia and India. It may seem directed at us, but they're essentially neurotic about Russia, and the presidential election baggage and Biden recently calling Putin a 'killer' only makes it worse.

Suraj, that is precisely the cause for alarm. If the Senate FRC was concerned about S400, and even wanted Sec. Austin to brandish sanctions in this regard, they could have said just that. Not an India-friendly move, even diplomatically tone-deaf, but if they had kept their missive specifically qua S400 we could have written it off as BAU with Obama era policymakers.

Menendez has carried this into the realm of the actively hostile by deliberately conflating Soros talking-points with the S400 issue: human rights, CAA, 370, farmer protests, "freedom house", you name it. We used to scoff at this 5hit coming out of random municipal councils & university departments. But this is the United States Senate.

Quite unprecedented.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 20 Mar 2021 12:31

https://news.yahoo.com/china-dominates- ... 11139.html
China dominates Pentagon chief's first India visit
Sylvie LANTEAUME, Fri, March 19, 2021
Pentagon chief Lloyd Austin praised India's growing ties with "like-minded partners" as he held talks in New Delhi Saturday that were expected to be dominated by shared alarm about China. India is a vital US partner in the Asia-Pacific region and Austin's two-day trip is New Delhi's first face-to-face meeting with President Joe Biden's administration. It follows talks between top US and Chinese officials in Alaska that wrapped up on Friday and which a senior Washington official described as "tough and direct".
Pentagon chief Lloyd Austin praised India's growing ties with "like-minded partners" as he held talks in New Delhi Saturday that were expected to be dominated by shared alarm about China. India is a vital US partner in the Asia-Pacific region and Austin's two-day trip is New Delhi's first face-to-face meeting with President Joe Biden's administration. It follows talks between top US and Chinese officials in Alaska that wrapped up on Friday and which a senior Washington official described as "tough and direct".
.....
Austin was set to meet Foreign Minister S. Jaishankar and Defence Minister Rajnath Singh on Saturday.
He may raise the question of human rights in India, with a second senior US official calling the issue "an important part of the Biden administration defense and foreign policy". US-Indian relations have historically been prickly but shared misgivings about China pushed them closer together under Modi and former US President Donald Trump. This accelerated after 20 Indian soldiers and four Chinese troops died last June in a clash on their disputed border high in the Himalayas.
.....
Gautam

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 20 Mar 2021 13:32

Rudradev wrote:Menendez has carried this into the realm of the actively hostile by deliberately conflating Soros talking-points with the S400 issue: human rights, CAA, 370, farmer protests, "freedom house", you name it. We used to scoff at this 5hit coming out of random municipal councils & university departments. But this is the United States Senate.

Quite unprecedented.

I view this as an obvious sign that the USA is floundering as a country. Newcomers and their children are more connected to their places of origin and not so much to the concept of America. With particular failure in assimilating Muslims by providing appropriate social and economic opportunities, it costs very little to use foreign relations to provide a semblance of connection to America.

The Indian foreign policy establishment looks content to act as a foil here, but there's only so much that can be done to gloss over America's own contradictions. Arguably, diminishing returns have already set in.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Mar 2021 13:44

vera_k wrote:This S-400 business is puzzling.

Was there ever hope that India buys or leases the F-35? Don't think this was ever on the cards. All there has been have been occasional news about possible F-16/F-18 contracts. Perhaps there were plans to sell or gift the F-35 to Pakistan and China?

At one end, the potential sale or the prospect of a sale is political. It extends the reach and hopefully, the goodwill of the current administration and the quid pro quo for the president and his party is the payoff in campaign contributions and influence

At the other end, it translates to visible regional patronage, increased local jobs, thriving local economies because new plants and/or increased spending by workers, taxes and the inevitable multiplier effect due to spinoffs in the growth of transportation, hospitality, and retail industries.

It makes the president and his party look good to the voters.

Any sales to a third world country which like they think India is, arming itself in a paranoid fashion and making big ticket defence buys has them all lathered up, slobbering and greedy for their entitled piece of the pie.

anything from the amerikis always comes with strings attached.

If religious visas were guaranteed to chosen FFNGOs, all human rights objections would dry up in an instant

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 20 Mar 2021 15:56

chetak wrote: If religious visas were guaranteed to chosen FFNGOs, all human rights objections would dry up in an instant

No. It would just open the door to more and more "reasonable" requests. Some where down the line India will have to say no. Better to do it now. I remember the time Gorbachev thought he could reach a reasonable accommodation with the US and live as a junior partner. A small acquiescence from India and Sher Khan will smell blood in water and attack like a shark.
Gautam

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Mar 2021 17:16

g.sarkar wrote:
chetak wrote: If religious visas were guaranteed to chosen FFNGOs, all human rights objections would dry up in an instant
No. It would just open the door to more and more "reasonable" requests. Some where down the line India will have to say no. Better to do it now. I remember the time Gorbachev thought he could reach a reasonable accommodation with the US and live as a junior partner. A small acquiescence from India and Sher Khan will smell blood in water and attack like a shark.
Gautam

Sirji,

I am not now, or have at any time in the past, ever advocated the grant of religious visas.

It was a sarcastic observation about the grandiose and hallucinationatory motivations of paranoid and colonized aholes like mendez (who may well be a mexican by extraction).

If that was not clear, it is my fault.

If the amerikis had an iota of regard for human rights or freedom of any kind except their own kind of self delusional idea of freedom, they would not have spent many decades killing, maiming, invading and forcefully thrusting "freedom" down unwilling throats.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 20 Mar 2021 17:37

There is something called the “law of unintended consequences”. CAATSA was intended to deter purchase of Russian equipment. Instead it will deter purchase of US equipment. The US has created this problem for itself. They can solve it for themselves too. Talking to India about CAATSA is a waste of both parties’ time.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 20 Mar 2021 19:09

Rudradev, maybe you already know, but it seem both Rutgers and Princeton has a strong, well funded Christian theology school that is popular with Kerala RoL clergy, fyi. I remember meeting a jesuit padre who used to teach me in school and he was studying there, after his retirement. Two years back, a friends’ dad told me in Trivandrum that he studied at Princeton for sometime. He is a bishop level chap of Marthoma denomination. Which means, there is some cross denominational networking there. Usually these two don’t see eye to eye in Kerala. They have some FB page for Indian xian students etc. They cover this non-secular aspect of the school well, in this age of rich heathen students, by deflecting attention to such pointless topics like “we will not approve xian Student’s body on campus...blah”.

So I was not exactly surprised at the two NJ colleges and their shenanigans at the administrative level.

Another place I heard is Tufts, where there is still some mandatory chapel service or some such for all students

Added later - IMO, the covid time suspension of OCI travel and later alterations of some terms and conditions have affected a significant segment of PIOs. It is a rich hunting ground for FOIL, khalis, IOCs etc where OFB once ruled. There seem a certain bitterness not since since LKAdvani’s reach out to this segment. Perfect storm situation is brewing up.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 20 Mar 2021 20:35

Raksha Mantri Raj Nath Singh's press release:
https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetai ... ID=1706226

Statement by Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh after bilateral talks with US Defence Secretary Mr Lloyd J Austin
Posted On: 20 MAR 2021 1:01PM by PIB Delhi
Excellency Secretary Austin,

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is a great honour and pleasure to receive US Secretary of Defence Mr Austin in his first official visit abroad and to India. I spoke with Secretary Austin immediately after he assumed charged. We had an excellent conversation during which I invited him to visit India at his earliest convenience. His visit to India despite the COVID-19 global pandemic, shows the abiding commitment of the United States to our bilateral relationship.

I am happy to inform that we had a comprehensive and fruitful discussion with Secretary Austin and his delegation. We are keen to work together to realise the full potential of the India-US Comprehensive Global Strategic Partnership.

Our discussions today focussed on our wide ranging defence cooperation and expanding military-to-military engagement across services, information sharing, cooperation in emerging sectors of defence, and mutual logistics support.

We reviewed the wide gamut of bilateral and multilateral exercises and agreed to pursue enhanced cooperation with the US Indo-Pacific Command, Central Command and Africa Command. Acknowledging that we have in place the foundational agreements, LEMOA, COMCASA and BECA, we discussed steps to be taken to realise their full potential for mutual benefit.

I conveyed my appreciation to Secretary Austin for participation of US in Aero India 2021 along with a business delegation. I invited US industry to take advantage of India’s liberalized foreign direct investment (FDI) policies in the defence sector. We both agreed that there are opportunities for collaboration in defence industry.

The recent Leaders’ Summit of India, USA, Japan and Australia under the Quad framework emphasized our resolve to maintain a free, open and inclusive Indo-Pacific region. We discussed the need for enhanced capacity building to address some of the non-traditional challenges such as oil spills and environment disasters, drug trafficking, Illegal, Unreported, Unregulated (IUU) fishing, etc.

India is committed to further consolidate our robust defence partnership with the United States. I look forward to working with you closely to make the India-US relationship one of the defining partnerships of 21st century.

Thank you.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 21 Mar 2021 00:18

Well it seems like the SecDef just had to mention caatsa related sanctions during his visit. In all fairness he was only responding to a question but sanctions are certainly not off the table it seems. Will be interesting to see what happens after the s400 is inducted. Not to mention other deals.

https://www.politiico.com/amp/news/2021 ... ile-477304.

AkshaySG · Post by **AkshaySG** » 21 Mar 2021 00:40

I mean you've got to think of this (CAATSA stuff ) from the Amreeki side to gauge their actions

They can't give a free waiver because they want to keep pressuring us and they don't want other countries to think its an option , They can't immediately impose the sanctions because that would turn us off completely and push us further towards Russia .....The best course for them is to keep publicly bringing it up every now and then ,seem like its gonna happen ,maybe force India to buy some of their stuff and pay some hafta and then later quietly forget about this as other deals continue to happen .

From our side we have two real options , Either go along with this game and buys some Drones ,tankers and whatnot for few Billion to keep them happy but know that they can raise this issue up at any time in the future again when they feel like it and that we're giving them huge amounts of money

Or call their bluff and just see what happens , Either they could sputter and back off in which case its a victory for us or either they would impose sanctions which would lead to delays ,issues ,cancellations of some programs but eventually push "atmanirbhartha " further along like it did for Nuclear and Space programs .

Russia on the other hand would be quite pleased if sanctions do come and might be pushing for them secretly in Amreeki think tanks and decision makers .Its gonna take some clever diplomacy to keep playing Russia,US and others off each other to get what we want but then that's the name of the game .

In the meantime more Indian products and more acquistions from France etc should keep them on their toes about Indian import

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 21 Mar 2021 00:47

chetak wrote: Sirji,
I am not now, or have at any time in the past, ever advocated the grant of religious visas.
It was a sarcastic observation about the grandiose and hallucinationatory motivations of paranoid and colonized aholes like mendez (who may well be a mexican by extraction).
If that was not clear, it is my fault.
If the amerikis had an iota of regard for human rights or freedom of any kind except their own kind of self delusional idea of freedom, they would not have spent many decades killing, maiming, invading and forcefully thrusting "freedom" down unwilling throats.

Sorry Sir, due to low IQ, I missed the sarcasm, and knotted up my chaddi. I have adjusted it now. As Ajmal said ainda asi galti nahin karenge.
Gautam

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Mar 2021 00:54

g.sarkar wrote:
chetak wrote: Sirji,
I am not now, or have at any time in the past, ever advocated the grant of religious visas.
It was a sarcastic observation about the grandiose and hallucinationatory motivations of paranoid and colonized aholes like mendez (who may well be a mexican by extraction).
If that was not clear, it is my fault.
If the amerikis had an iota of regard for human rights or freedom of any kind except their own kind of self delusional idea of freedom, they would not have spent many decades killing, maiming, invading and forcefully thrusting "freedom" down unwilling throats.
Sorry Sir, due to low IQ, I missed the sarcasm, and knotted up my chaddi. I have adjusted it now.
Gautam

g.sarkar saab,

If your IQ is low, I have yet to get down from the trees.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 21 Mar 2021 01:07

Cain Marko wrote:Well it seems like the SecDef just had to mention caatsa related sanctions during his visit. In all fairness he was only responding to a question but sanctions are certainly not off the table it seems. Will be interesting to see what happens after the s400 is inducted. Not to mention other deals.
https://www.politiico.com/amp/news/2021 ... ile-477304.

Problems loading that page: This is better-
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/2 ... ile-477304
Gautam
PS Thanks Chetakji.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 21 Mar 2021 01:30

hnair wrote:Rudradev, maybe you already know, but it seem both Rutgers and Princeton has a strong, well funded Christian theology school that is popular with Kerala RoL clergy, fyi. I remember meeting a jesuit padre who used to teach me in school and he was studying there, after his retirement. Two years back, a friends’ dad told me in Trivandrum that he studied at Princeton for sometime. He is a bishop level chap of Marthoma denomination. Which means, there is some cross denominational networking there. Usually these two don’t see eye to eye in Kerala. They have some FB page for Indian xian students etc. They cover this non-secular aspect of the school well, in this age of rich heathen students, by deflecting attention to such pointless topics like “we will not approve xian Student’s body on campus...blah”.

So I was not exactly surprised at the two NJ colleges and their shenanigans at the administrative level.

Another place I heard is Tufts, where there is still some mandatory chapel service or some such for all students

Added later - IMO, the covid time suspension of OCI travel and later alterations of some terms and conditions have affected a significant segment of PIOs. It is a rich hunting ground for FOIL, khalis, IOCs etc where OFB once ruled. There seem a certain bitterness not since since LKAdvani’s reach out to this segment. Perfect storm situation is brewing up.

Actually @hnair what you have posted is mostly wrong. The Princeton theological seminary has no connection with the university. No doubt the building where the seminary is housed occupies land opposite the Graduate College, the dormitory where most first year graduate students of Princeton university live. Historically almost all major universities when established did have a seminary and Princeton university had one because of its Presbyterian origins. Likewise the so-called New Brunswick theological seminary historically was part of Rutgers and occupies a building in the College Avenue campus because that is where it was in 1766 when the university was established. Rutgers again has nothing to do with the functioning of the seminary which is run by the American Reformed church. Historically the seminary was started in a building there in 1766 and then when in the 1960s religion became divested from higher education, the seminary still remained there.

There are thousands of businesses in and around Princeton that use the word Princeton but obviously have no connection to the university. One cannot hold the university liable if gullible people get hoodwinked by the cachet of Princeton esp. in India.

As far as Rutgers goes, there are three campuses, the main campus at New Brunswick which is divided into three parts on both banks of a wide river the Raritan. Then the branch campuses at Newark where Audrey Truschke is and Camden across the Delaware river from Philadelphia. The campuses are independently operated though there is a chancellor to look after all three. But this is a figurehead. Deans are autonomous. However in departments of small size at Newark and Camden, tenure decisions are voted on sometimes by New Brunswick faculty sitting in the meeting to provide comments and to solicit letters from external reviewers. These deliberations and the vote are then sent to the Dean of the cognizant area in that respective campus for deliberation by the next committee.

Regarding chapel I am sorry you are misinformed again. The most Catholic of universities in the US is Notre Dame university in South Bend in Indiana. It is a private Catholic university run by Jesuits and has a good reputation in the Sciences and math. in particular. I was offered tenure there in 1987 but declined the offer that was one of many offers I had then. Ohio State at Columbus also but I declined that, Univ. of Maryland I declined that too and Georgia Tech which I also declined. I have been to Notre Dame on many occasions to lecture last in 2017. They have a nice guest house and the one feature is a small cross on the wall in every room of the guest house. I am told that the guest house has begun to offer rooms without the cross unless one insists on having one in the room.
The other feature is a big mural/painting of Christ between the goalposts in the football stadium called "the touchdown Christ". But even with the Catholic funding as at Notre Dame, and the exorbitant fees private colleges and universities charge like Harvard, most cannot make it without Federal funding. At no university, chapel or attendance at religious meetings is mandatory unless you want to shut off federal grants and be in violation of Title VII regulations. Federal grants do amount to a lot esp. in Sciences and engineering and a smaller amount in Social sciences and the humanities.

For example NSF(National Science Foundation) grant applications which I have been lucky to get for 30+ years, have besides the proposal and technical details a long list of compliance concerns that have to be ticked off by the university grants officer before formal submission to the program officer of the appropriate federal program. Many large universities, Tufts, Notre Dame etc run in large measure on overheads coming from federal funds. 60% of my grant is cut off by the university as overhead and no university will force chapel and lose this amount and no serious faculty will join a university with policies that endanger federal grants.

The only time I entered Fitzpatrick chapel was when a post-doc of mine(currently senior Reader at the Australian National University, Canberra) got married and had his marriage there.

Univ. of Chicago, Harvard all have divinity or theological seminaries which for historical reasons have buildings on the campus. But have now independent authority and belong to the church that historically ran them. The universities have no relation with them.

Almost every major university does have a department of religion and yes "research" is carried out here on various religions. Some programs of religion have brought out excellent books like State University of New York the SUNY series of books, the book by Antonio Rigopoulous of Universita Venezia, Ca Foscari on Dattatreya is one such book in that series which I would strongly recommend in that series. The contents of the book come from his thesis at the Department of Religion for his PhD at UC Santa Barbara.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 21 Mar 2021 04:31

vsunder, am sure what you said are all 100% accurate as usual. My points are based on observations I had about some of the varied denomination clergy I saw in Kerala, who seem to have done some course or the other and there seem to be a larger than usual percentage than any other colleges. For example I have never heard name of Notre Dame being mentioned, although it is overtly mentioned as a catholic university. Also I see an PIO alumni association of a communal nature in the NJ colleges that seem active in social media. Regarding Tufts my observation is from a convocation ceremony which had some ceremony that was held in a chapel and included a service etc

What I meant to say still stands - that these seminaries seem to provide an aggregation point for special interests targeting a specific Indian political formation or government of the day.

I am sure all these three places I named are awesome otherwise for those who seek knowledge and knowledge alone

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 21 Mar 2021 15:41

https://news.yahoo.com/u-keen-strengthe ... 22192.html
U.S. defense secretary urges India to avoid buying Russian equipment
Aditi Shah and Nigam Prusty, Sat, March 20, 2021
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin discussed India's planned purchase of Russia's S400 air defence system at a meeting with his Indian counterpart on Saturday, reiterating U.S. allies should steer clear of Russian equipment to avoid sanctions.
"We certainly urge all our allies, our partners to move away from Russian equipment ... and really avoid any kind of acquisitions that would trigger sanctions on our behalf," Austin told reporters in New Delhi.
No S400 systems have been delivered to India and so the possibility of sanctions was not discussed, he said.
The United States last year imposed sanctions on Turkey for buying the S400 system.
India made an initial payment of $800 million in 2019 towards the Russian purchase and the first set of missile batteries are expected later this year.
Ahead of Austin's trip, Senator Bob Menendez, chairman of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, asked him to raise democracy and human rights concerns in his talks with the Indian government, as well reaffirm the Biden administration's opposition to India's planned purchase of the Russian systems.
Austin is making the first visit by a top member of U.S. President Joe Biden's administration to India as part of efforts to forge an alliance of countries seeking to push back against China's assertiveness in the region. The leaders of the United States, India, Australia and Japan - countries together known as the Quad - held a first summit last week pledging to work together for a free and open Indo-Pacific and to cooperate on maritime and cyber security in the face of challenges from China.
"India, in particular, is an increasingly important partner among today's rapidly shifting international dynamics," Austin said after meeting Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, during which they discussed strengthening security ties.
"We discussed opportunities to elevate the U.S.-India major defence partnership ... and we'll do that through regional security cooperation and military to military interactions and defence trade," Austin added. The United States has emerged as one of India's biggest arms sellers, and the two sides are also discussing India's plan to buy armed drones from the United States as well as a large order for over 150 combat jets for the air force and the navy to help narrow the gap with China, Reuters reported on Friday.
.....
Gautam