India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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g.sarkar
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

https://thediplomat.com/2018/05/india-r ... e-systems/
India, Russia Conclude Negotiations for S-400 Missile Air Defense Systems
By Franz-Stefan Gady
May 30, 2018
India and Russia are likely going to announce the deal before an Indo-Russian bilateral summit scheduled for October, according to a source.
India and Russia have reportedly concluded price negotiations for the procurement of five regiments of Russian-made S-400 Triumf advanced Air Defense Systems (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler) intended for service in the Indian military, according to local media reports.
“The negotiations for the missile deal have been concluded. The financial component has been finalized,” a top government official involved in the talks told Indian media on May 27. The official also noted that the deal will likely be publicly announced during a summit meeting between Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin scheduled for this October.
Indian and Russian officials are now reportedly trying to ascertain how to prevent the United States from sanctioning India under its Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) for acquiring Russian weaponry. The United States passed the CAATSA against Russia in August 2017 for purportedly manipulating the 2016 presidential election process.
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While the imposition of sanctions by the U.S. on India is highly unlikely, New Delhi’s decision to move ahead with the S-400 acquisition could impact future U.S.-India defense deals including the possible procurement of armed U.S.-made Predator drones or the establishment of joint aircraft production facilities.
“The acquisition of this technology will limit, I am afraid, the degree with which the United States will feel comfortable in bringing additional technology into whatever country we are talking about,” William Thornberry, the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said in an interview with local media this week. The acquisition of the S-400, “threatens our ability to work interoperably in the future,” he added.
India and Russia concluded an inter-governmental agreement for the purchase of the S-400s in in 2016 (See: “India and Russia Ink S-400 Missile Air Defense System Deal”). The total contract value is estimated at around USD $5.5 billion.
.....
Gautam
kit
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

arshyam wrote:
Austin wrote:What they are giving us with comcasa is a proprietary communication system like a black box which we assume is safe secure and interoperable with their communication system but like with any proprietary commercial system it can have a back door on the hardware side which end user i.e Indian Armed forces may not be aware off.
Not "can" saar, but most definitely "will".

I personally welcome these antics from Trump. My biggest concern with the US apron strings is the LCA GE engine, and this episode may just provide us the impetus to finally step up testing the Kaveri, however poorly performing it is. A slow plane is better than no plane. Also, we can use this excuse to throw away COMCASA, SAMOSA and whatever acronyms the amreekis keep coming up with. After all, we have a large ocean nearby to bury this shite in.

Last time the US put us under sanctions, ADA came up with a kick-ass CLAW s/w, and ISRO with its own cryogenic engines. I don't see why we cannot do something similar now.

While I am no fan of Kissinger, the man was on point when he (supposedly) said: "to be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal".
India is a NUCLEAR power already at a tech threshold ready to take off .. from navigation and radars to missiles .. we don't need to be "interoperable" with anyone . let Trump shove CAATSA up wherever
Last edited by kit on 31 May 2018 09:46, edited 1 time in total.
Austin
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Austin »

Some recent statement from US officals and senators during visit to India
US committee members linked the transfer of high-end technology for the Indian fighter aircraft production plan to the S-400 too.

“India wants to have more technology sharing and production like the F-16. The issue there is when you talk of technology and then there is the S-400...we do have some concerns that we have brought up to different levels of your government,” Democrat Congressman Harry Ceuller who represents Texas said.

William Thornberry Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee

“There is a lot of concern in the US administration and Congress with the S-400. There is concern that any country that acquires the system will complicate the ability of interoperability (with US forces),”

“So that is completely apart from any sanctions, legislation. I hope the government (of India) will take its time and consider very carefully the acquiring of that system because the difficulties it may pose for us,”
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

Austin wrote:Some recent statement from US officals and senators during visit to India
US committee members linked the transfer of high-end technology for the Indian fighter aircraft production plan to the S-400 too.

“India wants to have more technology sharing and production like the F-16. The issue there is when you talk of technology and then there is the S-400...we do have some concerns that we have brought up to different levels of your government,” Democrat Congressman Harry Ceuller who represents Texas said.

William Thornberry Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee

“There is a lot of concern in the US administration and Congress with the S-400. There is concern that any country that acquires the system will complicate the ability of interoperability (with US forces),”

“So that is completely apart from any sanctions, legislation. I hope the government (of India) will take its time and consider very carefully the acquiring of that system because the difficulties it may pose for us,”
the buggers are still talking 80s tech F16 !
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

talk about spending billions on someone elses MIC .. i say let the americans do their sanctions bit ..they can forget their trade deficit ..
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

ramana wrote:Philip and Chetak, US want to use IN as their Indian Ocean Gungadin.
All this COMCASA etc. are for them to use IN as waterboys.
They would even hope to wear out IN ships patrolling the Pacific so as to not pose a threat to Pakistan.
The peaceful military purchases (transport etc.) after IUCNA were baksheesh to US for the deal.
Once it got approved both went separate ways.
Except the lifafa Chatteratti in Delhi.
Ramanaji,
That was always the case with the British Empire. Indian soldiers under gora leadership, fighting the enemy to the last Indian. The US also wants something similar, a well run fighting machine that does not cost American lives. By themselves they are unable to bear the brunt of war, as we saw in Vietnam, the Gulf, Iraq and Afghanistan. If they can not fight and win in such countries, they are limited to Libya, Chad, Honduras type of countries.
Take the example of WWII in Europe. The US delayed the second front and let the USSR weaken it self. It instead supplied war materials to the Eastern Front. This is the preferred model of the US.
Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

kit wrote:
Austin wrote:Some recent statement from US officals and senators during visit to India

the buggers are still talking 80s tech F16 !
They are obfuscating issues to hide the real target, their core objection - the S400 systems.

They don't want India to acquire the S400 systems, period. Their true objections have not yet surfaced publicly but the S400's lethality and current dominance of this sophisticated russian system in any battle field scenario is not too far from their minds

Why did they not object so much to turkey's S400 systems??. Isn't saudi also showing interest , along with qatar, iraq, belarus and even piddly algeria??

Aren't the turks some sort of NATO allies or something?? with this much touted ability of interoperability already built in, in fact much more than what India will permit or even accept??

If this "ability of interoperability" is going to define our relationship and also place severe constraints on our ability to choose defense systems to protect ourselves, systems that we pay full price for unlike the pakis and the turks who pay a politically expedient price for amreki systems, far less than the systems' true commercial cost of acquisition, do we really want this relationship??, can we actually afford this national security albatross of the "ability of interoperability" around our necks??.
Last edited by chetak on 31 May 2018 10:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by habal »

I fully expect UPA and NDA govts to grease up, bend over and totally submit to any american demands. Their drama and machoism is reserved for hapless indians only. Only a left front govt can save us from this potential calamity.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

chetak wrote:
kit wrote:
the buggers are still talking 80s tech F16 !
They are obfuscating issues to hide the real target, their core objection - the S400 systems.

They don't want India to acquire the S400 systems, period. Their true objections have not yet surfaced publicly but the S400's lethality and current dominance of this sophisticated russian system in any battle field scenario is not too far from their minds

Why did they not object so much to turkey's S400 systems??. Isn't saudi also showing interest , along with qatar, iraq, belarus and even piddly algeria??

Aren't the turks some sort of NATO allies or something?? with this much touted ability of interoperability already built in, in fact much more than what India will permit or even accept??

If this "ability of interoperability" is going to define our relationship and also place severe constraints on our ability to choose defense systems to protect ourselves, systems that we pay full price for unlike the pakis and the turks who pay a politically expedient price for amreki systems, far less than the systems' true commercial cost of acquisition, do we really want this relationship??, can we actually afford this national security albatross of the "ability of interoperability" around our necks??.
probably they dont think their "stealth" aircraft can counter a S400 defended airspace .. uncle doesnt want a large part of the world "unpenetrable" at least not without significant losses .. purely not "interoperable" :((
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

habal wrote:I fully expect UPA and NDA govts to grease up, bend over and totally submit to any american demands. Their drama and machoism is reserved for hapless indians only. Only a left front govt can save us from this potential calamity.
you are joking right :mrgreen:
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

kit wrote:
habal wrote:I fully expect UPA and NDA govts to grease up, bend over and totally submit to any american demands. Their drama and machoism is reserved for hapless indians only. Only a left front govt can save us from this potential calamity.
you are joking right :mrgreen:
Not at all.

habal ji couldn't be more right.

But we don't need a left front govt for this, only the foresight to quietly orchestrate the left front's usual agitational style of politics to drum up public sentiment and use that to scuttle this amreki nonsense of the "ability of interoperability". The sheer arrogance of the amreki galls me.

If the Indian govt moves any further on this "ability of interoperability" thingee, you can be sure that the commies of all hues will come pouring out onto the streets to oppose it.

The bleddy commies do have their uses occasionally.

The amrekis cunningly use their various politically pliable senators to state publicly what their own state dept is constrained not to say. It then becomes or is made into official US policy as some stupid "amendment" or the other, to be then "legally" enforced on some hapless and unsuspecting country by the US govt. Game, set and match to the US.

Just recall what happened during the nuke deal fiasco and the role played by various entities in parliament at the time.

It was the commies who actually saved the day for us then.
Last edited by chetak on 31 May 2018 11:15, edited 1 time in total.
kit
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

only way to counter the S400 currently sems to be the B2 bomber deploying the new extended version of JASSM , forget everything else NATO can deploy .
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by nvishal »

I forgot to mention some thing basic related to s400 and geopolitical balancing(aka "the great game")

The s400 sale is a game changer. Once India acquires it from Russia, the americans will be forced(a strategic imperative) to transfer an equivalent system to Pakistan(ie, to keep the balance in check).

The system is expensive and Americans will likely have to fund it from their own pockets.

I also agree with rudradevs post below
viewtopic.php?p=2275453#p2275453
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

nvishal wrote:I forgot to mention some thing basic related to s400 and geopolitical balancing(aka "the great game")

The s400 sale is a game changer. Once India acquires it from Russia, the americans will be forced(a strategic imperative) to transfer an equivalent system to Pakistan(ie, to keep the balance in check).

The system is expensive and Americans will likely have to fund it from their own pockets.

I also agree with rudradevs post below
viewtopic.php?p=2275453#p2275453
good for them .. once pakis get it , the chinese will know it thoroughly.. expect clones ..and proliferate .. now i think the time lines for cloning is getting shorter anyway
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Philip »

Pak can't afford such an equiv.If the Yanquis supply them with anything it will show them in their true colours.They will get something from the Chinese at " friendship" prices.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by SSridhar »

habal wrote:I fully expect UPA and NDA govts to grease up, bend over and totally submit to any american demands. Their drama and machoism is reserved for hapless indians only. Only a left front govt can save us from this potential calamity.
The Commies will grease up and bend over to the Chinese. We are facing a two-front war, one with the US and the other with China. At this point of time, China is a worse evil than the US because of the former’s irredentism and war-mongering. Also, China, as a nation in waxing while the US is waning.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by nvishal »

^ After the 71 war, nixon went to China to cultivate it as a counter-balance against Russia. After similing Buddha, the Chinese were free(my guess is that they were instructed by the Americans) to enable Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons as a counter-balance against India. This is a speculation but I stand by it.

Given the desperado history of these players, I believe it is not impossible.

Pakistan is a state that uses jihad to achieve its strategic objectives. But it is also Americas war-dog(against India).
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Kashi »

Philip wrote:Pak can't afford such an equiv.If the Yanquis supply them with anything it will show them in their true colours.They will get something from the Chinese at " friendship" prices.
Most likely a few units of HQ-9.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by SSridhar »

nvishal wrote:After similing Buddha, the Chinese were free(my guess is that they were instructed by the Americans) to enable Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons as a counter-balance against India. This is a speculation but I stand by it.
That's a fair speculation to make and that could be vindicated over time. For now, we know that the Americans 'helped' Pakistani acquisition of nukes. We also know that China 'helped' Pakistani acquisition of nukes. We also know that the Americans knew Pakistani nuclear developments and continued to give Presidential waiver. We also know that the Americans knew about Chinese transfer but kept quiet; in fact, even suggested that they were 'unable to determine one way or another for certain'. If something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, squawks like a duck, then it has got to be a duck.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

SSridhar wrote:
habal wrote:I fully expect UPA and NDA govts to grease up, bend over and totally submit to any american demands. Their drama and machoism is reserved for hapless indians only. Only a left front govt can save us from this potential calamity.
The Commies will grease up and bend over to the Chinese. We are facing a two-front war, one with the US and the other with China. At this point of time, China is a worse evil than the US because of the former’s irredentism and war-mongering. Also, China, as a nation in waxing while the US is waning.
SSridhar,

The public is more aware now. With the coming of Modi on the scene, the nationalist sentiment is ascendant, and the space for the commies is much reduced. Even if he is not at the helm, the nationalist sentiment has become aware and will not remain docile anymore.

The anti India role and stance of the commies in the 1962 cheeni fiasco has not been forgotten, not by a long shot. I was in KER as a kid when anti cheeni riots broke out in cochin and sadly, some poor "chinese" restaurants were ransacked, looted and trashed.

The commies will be thrashed in the streets should there be any overt support of the hans. The covert support they will continue to do as always but they have no political clout to direct or shape events as they used to. If some minorities are misguided enough to support the commies, there will be real hell to pay.

The commies are not the only ones with the capability to orchestrate street demos but this time the sheer scale of the violence will push them back with a very severely bloodied nose. This will happen in dilli.

The cops will just sit back and watch.

The main trouble will start in WB and an equally harsh reaction will be felt there. KER will remain confined to twitter and whatsapp with some sporadic incidents. The commies are done and dusted.

When it comes to country, no other party will take any other stand publicly except what is nationalist, even though they may feel differently inside.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Kashi »

chetak wrote:The public is more aware now. With the coming of Modi on the scene, the nationalist sentiment is ascendant, and the space for the commies is much reduced. Even if he is not at the helm, the nationalist sentiment has become aware and will not remain docile anymore.....
I think you underestimate the fickle-mindedness of the people.
chetak wrote:When it comes to country, no other party will take any other stand publicly except what is nationalist, even though they may feel differently inside.
Care to bet on that?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

Kashi wrote:
chetak wrote:The public is more aware now. With the coming of Modi on the scene, the nationalist sentiment is ascendant, and the space for the commies is much reduced. Even if he is not at the helm, the nationalist sentiment has become aware and will not remain docile anymore.....
I think you underestimate the fickle-mindedness of the people.
chetak wrote:When it comes to country, no other party will take any other stand publicly except what is nationalist, even though they may feel differently inside.
Care to bet on that?
Yes and along with many others, I do.

long before Modi ever came on the scene, the national sentiment during war, especially among the non uniformed aam jantha was to be seen to be believed.

This sentiment was always there. and now with the awakening...........

People are mostly fickle during peace and almost never during times of external emergencies and aggression.

Commies are excepted, of course. namak harami is in their blood.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

kit wrote:
Amber G. wrote:Few are running this headline...
US Pacific Command renamed US Indo-Pacific Command
Nice!

As a reminder .. Indo stands for "Indian Ocean" NOT India
Thanks for the reminder /sigh/ but IHMO you are missing the point (why do the "rename" at all")

This is the official tweet from U.S. Pacific CommandVerified account
@PacificCommand

Secretary James N. Mattis, Secretary for @DeptOfDefense, announces the renaming of U.S. Pacific Command to U.S. Indo-Pacific Command to recognize the increasing connectivity between the Indian & Pacific Oceans and America's commitment to the #IndoPacific!
And clip of James N. Mattis - for the reasons for renaming - explicitly mentioning terrorism - etc..
(I find interesting - and happy to see major khujali among pakis type people whenever "indo" prefix is used (cs "southasia") .. as in "indian subcontinent".."indian food".
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cain Marko »

My guess is that none of the caatsa repercussions will be real. They will find some way to prevent loss to US India relationship which had been developed so carefully for the last 16+years.

Either through some exemptions as mattis suggested or via some other clever loophole.... E.g. caatsa can't be applied retroactively or towards maintenance of goods that were bought in the past.

There is much that has been achieved to just abandon do wantonly.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

Amber G. wrote:
kit wrote:

As a reminder .. Indo stands for "Indian Ocean" NOT India
Thanks for the reminder /sigh/ but IHMO you are missing the point (why do the "rename" at all")

This is the official tweet from U.S. Pacific CommandVerified account
@PacificCommand


Well sir..my point is it's their khujli with the chinks .. why are the Americans only in the naming game vs the Chinese when it comes to the S400 missile system if it is all equal equal between India and China .. no CAATSA for them eh ?!.. only for ""ally " India :mrgreen:
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

Cain Marko wrote:My guess is that none of the caatsa repercussions will be real. They will find some way to prevent loss to US India relationship which had been developed so carefully for the last 16+years.
Either through some exemptions as mattis suggested or via some other clever loophole.... E.g. caatsa can't be applied retroactively or towards maintenance of goods that were bought in the past.
Maybe. But they will hang it over our heads for future action. The US put sanctions on ABV after PokhranII, but the action was limited as India was not integrated into the Western economy. If we continue to purchase essential equipment directly from Khan, the pain will be far greater today. India should buy only non essential equipment and always assess the impact of future sanctions on such purchases. I wonder what is going to happen to our Tejas aircraft if the engines are embargoed.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by habal »

engine embargo is 'when' not 'if'. But any sanctions or embargo at this stage is going to put usa in a tough spot because that means all doors to future sales is also closed.

the reason we are slacking on kaveri is an attempt to help americans impose sanctions better, desi fifth column assisting western interests. The americans know which bureaucrats are the nodes for influencing key decisions in kaveri and have somehow managed to exercise influence over them to go slow or throttle funding, this coupled with our apathetic politicians who are not military savvy have cooked goose of many projects.

Compare this to China where the PLA top brass is also part of politburo and they take keen interest in all developments and do not allow any slack to develop at all.

Tejas will be affected in this I think, one way or other. With very small investment, the americans will have managed to cripple our MiG-21/23 replacement schedule. Maximum bang for buck sanctions.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

habal wrote:engine embargo is 'when' not 'if'. But any sanctions or embargo at this stage is going to put usa in a tough spot because that means all doors to future sales is also closed.

the reason we are slacking on kaveri is an attempt to help americans impose sanctions better, desi fifth column assisting western interests. The americans know which bureaucrats are the nodes for influencing key decisions in kaveri and have somehow managed to exercise influence over them to go slow or throttle funding, this coupled with our apathetic politicians who are not military savvy have cooked goose of many projects.

Compare this to China where the PLA top brass is also part of politburo and they take keen interest in all developments and do not allow any slack to develop at all.

Tejas will be affected in this I think, one way or other. With very small investment, the americans will have managed to cripple our MiG-21/23 replacement schedule. Maximum bang for buck sanctions.
+ 1 . for sure .
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ShauryaT »

US extraterritorial sanctions: Begging for a waiver now is the worst possible option for India
- Brahma Chellaney

By imposing extraterritorial or “secondary” sanctions, the US seeks to effectively extend its jurisdiction far beyond its borders. Armed with unmatched power from the role of the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency, America has the capacity and will to coerce allies and adversaries alike by threatening to lock them out of the US financial system. But make no mistake: Its extraterritorial sanctions violate international law, the UN Charter and WTO rules.
How India navigates the new sanctions will be a crucial test of its ability to safeguard an independent foreign policy. External affairs minister Sushma Swaraj says, “India follows only UN sanctions, not unilateral sanctions of any country.” But if India seeks deal related or rolling waivers, it would, in effect, be adhering to the US sanctions. Begging for a waiver is the worst possible choice India can pursue, because it will come with conditions that crimp New Delhi’s latitude further.

India has diplomatic space to rebuff US pressure because the US this time is acting alone, with its own European allies defiant. If India goes ahead with Russian and Iranian deals regardless of the sanctions threat, the US will have little choice but to exempt India without conditions. India should partner other key democracies to push back with full diplomatic strength, including, if necessary, hauling the US into the WTO dispute-resolution body and introducing a UN General Assembly resolution against unlawful extraterritorial sanctions. The main beneficiary of the new US sanctions, of course, will be China, ever ready to capitalise on opportunities in sanctions-hit countries.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ShauryaT »

Is US a reliable partner? -- G Parthasarathy
Moreover, the time has come for India and others to use forums like BRICS to initiate a process to devise a new architecture for monetary exchanges, so that Washington cannot indefinitely continue to use the dollar as an instrument for diplomatic blackmail and to disrupt world trade through unilateral monetary sanctions.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by hanumadu »

habal wrote:engine embargo is 'when' not 'if'.
Maybe that's exactly the sort of thing Kaveri needs. Fire under our asses.

There are other things US can embargo, though not military equipment. Chips and chip manufacturing equipment. IBM refused to set up semiconductor facility for SCL recently citing military uses. What if US decides it is not going to sell ANY chips to India? I cant think what would trigger such a thing, but with current state of affairs, next in line for president would be Bannon. He will be even more trigger happy.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by hanumadu »

ShauryaT wrote:Is US a reliable partner? -- G Parthasarathy
Moreover, the time has come for India and others to use forums like BRICS to initiate a process to devise a new architecture for monetary exchanges, so that Washington cannot indefinitely continue to use the dollar as an instrument for diplomatic blackmail and to disrupt world trade through unilateral monetary sanctions.
About time. We did not face subprime crisis, we did not print trillions of dollars but yet dollar was the safe haven and rupee fell from 38 to a dollar to 50 to a dollar in quick time and continues to fall. BRICS and Europeans countries can come together and create alternatives to the intels, microsofts and the googles.

At what point of time will EU start attacking US technology leadership? So far they were happy to play second fiddle to the US.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by pravula »

hanumadu wrote:
habal wrote:engine embargo is 'when' not 'if'.
Maybe that's exactly the sort of thing Kaveri needs. Fire under our asses.

There are other things US can embargo, though not military equipment. Chips and chip manufacturing equipment. IBM refused to set up semiconductor facility for SCL recently citing military uses. What if US decides it is not going to sell ANY chips to India? I cant think what would trigger such a thing, but with current state of affairs, next in line for president would be Bannon. He will be even more trigger happy.
Look at ZTE. It would be the at least the same outcome.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by habal »

International relations is a game of nerves among the big boys. If India has really arrived in big boys club it will hold its nerve. If India isn't ready to play in big league it will submit to meek settlement.

this is just one of the many googlies that is likely to come our way in future, responses to such leg cutters/doosra will decide our stature in times to come.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vikas »

I doubt if any of the doomsday scenario being painted will come true as far as sanctions are concerned.
'Smiling Budha' was too big a even to be ignored and Bharat of 1998 was a different country than it is in 2018.
That Unkil is out there to protect its interest is given, Same holds true for us also.
After all is dusted, there is no alternative to developing our own capabilities and MIC but nooo, we will oscillate between Russian and American products for a long-long time to come.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Neshant »

US wants India to buy and underwrite the cost of it's missile defence systems. Hence the reason they want to end the Russian deal before it moves any further.

Trump is meanwhile launching trade wars even with close allies like Canada and others like EU, China, and his favorite Mexico.

Its just not worth getting into a trade war or sanctions related war with Trump at the helm over the purchase of the Russian missile defence system. Its a battle India will lose and big time.

Shelve the Russian missile defence deal for now.

Proceed ahead however on defence equipment which are of critical need even if US objects to those armaments\spares coming from Russia.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by eklavya »

^^^^^
This castrata is America’s problem. They made the problem, they can solve it, or not, who cares. India will deploy S-400.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

Whether CAATSA takes effect or there is a waiver, the US has already damaged the future of acquisitions by India for any new weapon system. It has already hurt US defense contractors.

This is really a good thing. India must produce its weapon systems within country like the Chinese. Sure they may not be as good, but it doesn't matter as right now numbers are needed. Quantity over quality. With the experience of the LCA, India can quickly produce as 4.5 gen combat aircraft and churn them out by the hundreds.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Neshant »

Mort Walker wrote:With the experience of the LCA, India can quickly produce as 4.5 gen combat aircraft and churn them out by the hundreds.
Let alone the engine, I bet even the processors in the LCA comes from the US.

That along with a whole bunch of other components.

There are probably thousands of projects around the country US could sink through restrictive technology denial regimes or financing restrictions if they chose.

Put the Russian purchase on ice for now till circumstances change in the US.

Its as much about knowing when to fight and knowing when not to fight.

Right now Trump is out to prove he's a hard nosed businessman fighting for American interests and we should not end up on the wrong end of his gun.

He's even going after close allies of America with trade wars. He would have no hesitation wrecking India.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

g.sarkar wrote:https://thediplomat.com/2018/05/india-r ... e-systems/
India, Russia Conclude Negotiations for S-400 Missile Air Defense Systems
By Franz-Stefan Gady
May 30, 2018
India and Russia are likely going to announce the deal before an Indo-Russian bilateral summit scheduled for October, according to a source.
India and Russia have reportedly concluded price negotiations for the procurement of five regiments of Russian-made S-400 Triumf advanced Air Defense Systems (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler) intended for service in the Indian military, according to local media reports.
“The negotiations for the missile deal have been concluded. The financial component has been finalized,” a top government official involved in the talks told Indian media on May 27. The official also noted that the deal will likely be publicly announced during a summit meeting between Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin scheduled for this October.
Indian and Russian officials are now reportedly trying to ascertain how to prevent the United States from sanctioning India under its Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) for acquiring Russian weaponry. The United States passed the CAATSA against Russia in August 2017 for purportedly manipulating the 2016 presidential election process.
While the imposition of sanctions by the U.S. on India is highly unlikely, New Delhi’s decision to move ahead with the S-400 acquisition could impact future U.S.-India defense deals including the possible procurement of armed U.S.-made Predator drones or the establishment of joint aircraft production facilities.
“The acquisition of this technology will limit, I am afraid, the degree with which the United States will feel comfortable in bringing additional technology into whatever country we are talking about,” William Thornberry, the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said in an interview with local media this week. The acquisition of the S-400, “threatens our ability to work interoperably in the future,” he added.
India and Russia concluded an inter-governmental agreement for the purchase of the S-400s in in 2016 (See: “India and Russia Ink S-400 Missile Air Defense System Deal”). The total contract value is estimated at around USD $5.5 billion.
.....
Gautam
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