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India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Karthik S
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 27 Jun 2017 08:27

IMO, Like any other country's media, the US media covers topics that are least common denominator to individual news channels' target market. Therefore, India and Indian PM may not be of much interest to an average person in the US. But that's not the case with US corporations that are the primary interest to NM and vice versa. Therefore, if those 20 companies, whose CEOs NM met, invest billions of dollars in India, I'd think the trip was a successful one for us.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ShauryaT » 27 Jun 2017 08:46

I have just one question. Why did Modi have to hug him :?:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby yensoy » 27 Jun 2017 08:55

I watched the WH Joint Statement.

It was glowing, effusive, typical Trump language. I am getting the feeling that Trump is hitching his bandwagon to Modi and to India in the hope of legitimizing his own position, rather than in the interests of the US. 100 planes order isn't much really, after all India has been ordering hundreds of aircraft (typically lower-margin narrowbodies) and one has to go with A(Airbus) or B(Boeing). There is certainly a lot of potential in the relationship moving forward but there is little to show as of now. Then again, if the US wishes to continue growing there just aren't that many other stable, growing and scalable partners in the world left.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Guddu » 27 Jun 2017 09:05

ShauryaT wrote:I have just one question. Why did Modi have to hug him :?:


That's Modi's style, to express warmth. I think by the end of the visit eg when Trump was seeing off Modi in his car, it was a warmer embrace, the hug during the joint conference was a bit uncomfortable, and when Trump/Modi met for the first time it was just a formal handshake. Next time they meet, it will be a hug. Its hard to dislike someone you hug....I cant imagine the cold heartless XI hugging Trump. Some of the Modi/Obama hugs were pretty warm. Overall its a good thing, pappi-jhappi for the desis. :mrgreen:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Gus » 27 Jun 2017 09:13

Nyt vomits. Cannot begin where to dissect this puke.///

In Mr. Modi’s case, supporters of his party circulated fake videos in 2013 of two Hindus being lynched by a Muslim mob. The videos led to rioting that killed 44 people, displaced 42,000 others and split a historical voting alliance between lower-caste Hindus and Muslims. That helped give Mr. Modi a substantial majority in the lower house of Parliament.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 27 Jun 2017 09:44

Guddu wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:I have just one question. Why did Modi have to hug him :?:


That's Modi's style, to express warmth. I think by the end of the visit eg when Trump was seeing off Modi in his car, it was a warmer embrace, the hug during the joint conference was a bit uncomfortable, and when Trump/Modi met for the first time it was just a formal handshake. Next time they meet, it will be a hug. Its hard to dislike someone you hug....I cant imagine the cold heartless XI hugging Trump. Some of the Modi/Obama hugs were pretty warm. Overall its a good thing, pappi-jhappi for the desis. :mrgreen:

I watched the joint conference one and it was not that odd actually. There have been worse earlier.

pankajs
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 27 Jun 2017 09:46

Gus wrote:Nyt vomits. Cannot begin where to dissect this puke.///

In Mr. Modi’s case, supporters of his party circulated fake videos in 2013 of two Hindus being lynched by a Muslim mob. The videos led to rioting that killed 44 people, displaced 42,000 others and split a historical voting alliance between lower-caste Hindus and Muslims. That helped give Mr. Modi a substantial majority in the lower house of Parliament.

Twisting facts will never endear it to the Indian who are Modi's core constituency though It might fetch a few point with the chatteratti.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Hari Seldon » 27 Jun 2017 10:15

Reg NYT's bar-fables, yawn only.

Media cred is at historic lows in Trumpistan. Most lamestream media are essentially 'Democratic operatives with bylines', as one blogger puts it.

The bully pulpit has long deserted these serial abusers of trust, and not a moment too soon. The more such bile is spewed, the more it is revealed by experience and ground numbers as divorced from reality, the more immunity builds to such lies. Only.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 27 Jun 2017 10:35

pankajs wrote:I watched the joint conference one and it was not that odd actually. There have been worse earlier.


I didn't watch the press conf because didn't want to feel insulted by stupid media. But did they take any questions?

I did watch the beginning, I thought ModiJi as usual was a bit over enthusiastic in giving a bear hug to Trump. Looked a bit odd. But what to do, this is ModiJi's style. Question I have is does ModiJi give non-white leaders the same enthusiastic Hug? I guess he does, but I'm trying to recall. Minor issue anyway.

Given US is a mighty super power, I guess any benefit India gets, means its a net positive visit irrespective of the zero media coverage.

Gus, I checked NYT on-line, but couldn't find that puke-worthy editorial. Can you post the link?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 27 Jun 2017 10:56

is the guardian uav deal signed ?

dont worry that we didnt get served beef keema and parotta over there, take what is needed and on table and work our own problems out

i think brf atleast is well past the stage of wailing at adverse op eds or believing in the spiel of "US will make yindia great" lol

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby A_Gupta » 27 Jun 2017 11:16

CRamS wrote:[ Question I have is does ModiJi give non-white leaders the same enthusiastic Hug? I guess he does, but I'm trying to recall. Minor issue anyway.


Yes, minor issue, or else you could have easily found this and answered your own question:
https://qz.com/601937/narendra-modi-and ... bear-hugs/
This is from January 25, 2016 -- more than an year ago -- and is titled: "A BRIEF HISTORY Narendra Modi hugging people"

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Muns » 27 Jun 2017 11:22

US designates Hizbul chief Syed Salahuddin as global terrorist ahead of Modi-Trump meeting: Big Win For India: India welcomes move

http://www.india-aware.com/us-designates-hizbul-chief-syed-salahuddin-as-global-terrorist-ahead-of-modi-trump-meeting-big-win-for-india-india-welcomes-move/

Syed Mohammed Yusuf Shah was declared “specially designated global terrorist” by the State Department following Modi’s meetings with US secretary of state Rex Tillerson and defence secretary James Mattis on Monday in Washington. Salahuddin joins the likes Lashkar chief Hafiz Mohammed Saeed and Dawood Ibrahim in the list.

Syed Salahuddin, who is also chairman of and United Jihad Council (UJC), and also the head of Kashmiri militant group Hizbul-Mujahideen, was on Monday declared as a specially designated global terrorist by US State Department.

The designation happened hours before Prime Minister Narendra Modi met US President Donald Trump, signalling the new administration’s commitment to stamping out Pak-sponsored terror. The Summit meeting had not started at the time of going to press.

A native of Budgam district in central Kashmir, Syed Salahuddin, had shifted to Pakistan-occupied Kashmir around 1989 from where he played a key role in fueling militancy in Kashmir for 27 years; training and arming youth before sending them back to the Kashmir valley. He also heads the United Jihad Council, the umbrella body set up in the mid-1990s to oversee terror outfits active in Jammu and Kashmir.

“It does vindicate India’s longest-standing position that cross border terrorism behind disturbance created in Kashmir since last year. The outfits that Syed Salahuddin, leads, they have perpetuated, from the territory of Pakistan and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, cross border terrorism against India including in Kashmir for a number of years,” foreign ministry spokesperson Gopal Baglay said welcoming the notification.

It also underlines that both India and US face threat of terrorism and “are working together to counter this threat, not in particular sector but globally also as terrorism knows no boundaries. Terrorism is a global menace”, Mr Baglay added.

New Delhi sees the specific mention of turning Kashmir “into a graveyard for Indian forces” as an unequivocal statement in India’s support and a validation of India’s moral authority on the Kashmir issue.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 27 Jun 2017 11:25

IIRC, $50B investment will lead to 1% increase in GDP growth. If that meeting with 20 CEOs will get us close to that figure, I'd consider the trip a success.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 27 Jun 2017 11:37

Let's face facts.Thankfully Mr.Modi met Trump and not Hillary! That forked tongue ,conniving,duplicitous female of a species ,China lover would've been huge trouble for India. Now the Donald in my opinion shoots straight from the hip and I'm sure that so long as he is in the White House Indo-US relations will grow.What we must not imagine will happen are quick-fixes vis-a-vis Pak or China. Ultimately we'll have to fight our won battles and not expect any support other than moral,plus some arms which we need. Even arms supplies will come with strings,constraints,etc.,but it is a positive relationship and we must be patient.

Now,labelling just one Paki as a global terrorist is small beer. It is not going to stop Paki terror,far from it.Their terror outfits once indentified as being terrorist simply change their names. Until the Paki mil machine as an entity is labelled as sponsoring terror,and action taken against its top generals,nothing will change. These men at the top in uniform must have their firang accts. seized,travel bans imposed,red flag notices against them like the Balkan generals-you get the picture. But until the US stops its lusting after Pak as a convenient rent-boy to do its dirty work in the region,esp. Afghanistan,nothing much will change.The Paki military and ISI are a state by themselves,with a political entourage merely acting as fig leaf for a military dictatorship which at any time can send the corrupt political leadership into jail. You know the famous saying;"some countries have a military,in Pakistan the military has a country!"
Guardian UCAVs sold to us is fine,but what must also accompany the UCAVs is the right of India to use them against Pak. The US cannot have a duplicitous policy towards terrorism,wasting its own enemies in Pak in drone strikes but prohibiting India from doing so.

The main issue of which little has been said is that of China.Pak as many analysts have said is merely a part of the Chinese gameplan for Asia and the world. China's only hurdle preventing the legitimising of its hegemony over Asia is India.India is the bulwark against a Chinese take-away of the wealth of Asia by any means.Its military expansion is the greatest of any nation on the planet. It possesses an unknown qty. of N-weapons and other WMDs. It lies with its teeth,therefore,the US which is in decline and in a withdrawal phase of its expeditionary wars of the last few decades,has to reassure the nations of Asia standing upto China of the assistance they can receive and the limitations of US military help.India has to know clearly what the US can and cannot do with regard to the Sino-Pak combine. The US has sadly had a history of letting down its allies and Trump gave the NATO nations a real scare when he campaigned ,giving statements about the US wanting NATO to do more for itself and not take US help for granted.

In the ultimate analysis,India will have to fight its wars all by itself.We have to leverage as much as we can get from the US,old friend Russia,Israel,and the rest of Europe.Bi-lateral mil agreements with ASEAN nations,Vietnam,etc., are necessary because unless we we establish a forward defensive/offensive stance,basing some of our assets in the Indo-China Sea and Asia-Pacific theatre,

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nirav » 27 Jun 2017 11:41

There was tremendous dhoti shivering before the meet.
Bharat Karnad was talking about Trump using hand sanitizers often and wondering how abmodi hug would be dealt with by him.

Even trump administration sees India in a way more positive light than our desi think thanks and some diggajs.

There was stupid af discussion on TV on impact of our relationship with pakis and what not as a result of the summit.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 27 Jun 2017 11:42

Three-quarters of world has little or no confidence in Trump, Pew study finds
Support for US president now below that of George Bush following Iraq invasion
Israel and Russia have faith in Trump – not so European allies
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... arch-study

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby V J » 27 Jun 2017 13:11

Visit of Prime Minister Modi to USA in photos: https://flic.kr/s/aHskYLmTSv

Sec Def Mattis' Flickr page: https://flic.kr/s/aHsm3f1dmj





Had to quote NBC's video as the ones on https://www.youtube.com/user/PMOfficeIndia/videos & https://www.youtube.com/user/narendramodi/videos have 3rd class, 2004 era 4:3 480p crap as usual, even the video one by White House is completely off-focus and blurry, I guess even they aren't immune from sadak-chaap quality sarkari productions.

Ambassador Sarna and the other desis watch Kushner & co come and are expecting them to come by and say hello expectantly but he just goes in the second row beside Ivanka and they go into their own huddle subsequently, by then so do the SDREs. I see absolutely no mingling between us & them :-?


Checkout this following video and see the moment at 0:52, what is Tillerson dropping by Trump on his dinner table?


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby SSridhar » 27 Jun 2017 14:57

Analysis of the Indo-U.S. joint statement: tougher on Pakistan, softer on China - Suhasini Haidar, The Hindu
By all indications, the meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and U.S. President Donald Trump exceeded expectations of both sides, on the optics and on the language of their joint statement, especially given that officials in New Delhi and Washington had spent much time in the past week managing the expectations, predicating much on how well the two leaders got along.

The “visible personal chemistry” that Ministry of External Affairs officials referred to frequently, was on display, with the two leaders exchanging three hugs and several handshakes through the course of the day.

“This was frankly one of the most productive of all prime ministerial visits to the United States,” said Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar, who as former Joint Secretary (Americas) and Indian Ambassador to the U.S. has witnessed the Singh-Bush, Singh-Obama and Modi-Obama relationship up close as well.

While more details of the agreements between the two sides will emerge over the next few days and weeks, a quick look at the joint statement issued on Monday, and a comparison with the joint statement issued a year ago by Mr. Barack Obama and Mr. Modi in June 2016, reveals a few important points.

Strategic convergence, shift to trade focus

The Indo-U.S. Strategic Partnership is on course, but with a new emphasis on trade and economic ties.

This is reflected by the title of the two statements: “Enduring Global Partners in the 21st Century” in 2016, and the more modest “Prosperity Through Partnership” this year.

While the 2016 statement focused on ‘Bolstering Economic and Trade ties’, this year’s statement is more direct on how that will be done, with references to “balancing the trade deficit” (which, as it is in India’s favour, is a sore point for the Trump administration).

However, the joint statement of 2017 continues previous references to “a growing strategic convergence” bolstered by military, maritime and intelligence cooperation. In addition, while India has yet to commit to buying Predator drones, a sale of 22 Guardian drones was cleared by the U.S. Cabinet last week. Mr. Trump said he was “pleased” that India buys U.S. defence products.

Terror and Pakistan

The language of the joint statement this year is much tougher on terrorism, specifically on Pakistan-based terror groups. A few hours before the Trump-Modi meeting, the U.S. State Department moved to make Hizbul Mujahideen leader Syed Salahuddin a Designated Global Terrorist, a move that was welcomed by India.

Last year’s statement had the same wording when it came to “strengthening cooperation against terrorist threats from extremist groups, such as Al-Qa’ida, Da’esh/ISIL, Jaish-e Mohammad, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, D Company and their affiliates, including through deepened collaboration on U.N. terrorist designations,” although this year has dropped the mention of “U.N. terrorist designations.”

The language on Pakistan is clear, and a departure from the past year, when all terror attacks from “Paris to Pathankot” were condemned.

“The leaders called on Pakistan to ensure that its territory is not used to launch terrorist attacks on other countries. They further called on Pakistan to expeditiously bring to justice the perpetrators of the 26/11 Mumbai, Pathankot, and other cross-border terrorist attacks perpetrated by Pakistan-based groups,” the most direct message sent in an India-U.S. joint statement thus far.


Like the previous year, the U.S. also committed to the U.N. Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism, an Indian initiative, as well as to supporting India’s bid for the membership of the U.N. Security Council and Nuclear Suppliers Group.

China

One of the most important documents signed by India and the U.S., the 2015 U.S.-India Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region, seems to have been given a miss in the latest statement, which appears to have softened some of the language on China’s actions in the South China Sea.

For example, instead of saying the two countries would “ensure” freedom of navigation, overflight and commerce through the Indo-Pacific region (that refers to the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean), the language in 2017 only “reiterates the importance of respecting freedom of navigation, overflight, and commerce throughout the region,” a significant toning down of the language that possibly reflects Mr. Trump’s current ties with Beijing.


In place of the 2016 language calling for India and the U.S. to “secure the domains” of land, maritime, air, space, and cyber, in 2017, it speaks of being “responsible stewards” and “democratic stalwarts in the Indo-Pacific Region.” No mention is made either of the “United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,” under which a tribunal ruled against China’s claims in the SCS, which was referred to the previous year. India indicated it had brought the U.S. over to its position on the Chinese “Belt and Road initiative” with a reference to “respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity” on regional connectivity projects, which has been India’s major concern.

North Korea

North Korea is a new entrant into the Indo-U.S. Joint Statement, in keeping with Mr. Trump’s sharp focus on curbing the DPRK leader Kim Jong-Un’s nuclear and ballistic belligerence.

“The leaders strongly condemned continued provocations by the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK), emphasizing that its destabilizing pursuit of nuclear and ballistic missile programs poses a grave threat to regional security and global peace. The leaders called on DPRK to strictly abide by its international obligations and commitments. The leaders pledged to work together to counter the DPRK’s weapons of mass destruction programs, including by holding accountable all parties that support these programs,” the statement said, which is India’s strongest statement on the subject.

Traditionally, India has maintained trade and low-profile ties with North Korea, but in 2015, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj received North Korea’s Foreign Minister Ri Su Yong.

Afghanistan

For weeks leading up to the Trump-Modi meeting, speculation had swirled around the idea that the U.S. would ask India for more support, with some reports speaking of a demand for up to 15,000 Indian Army troops to help with the U.S. and NATO’s flagging efforts at fighting the Taliban.

Thus far, the only senior U.S. official to visit India was U.S. NSA McMaster, who came to Delhi from Kabul and Islamabad, which also fuelled the theory the U.S. sees a larger role for India in the conflict in Afghanistan.

However, the joint statement was non-committal on the nature of India’s contribution for now, with Mr. Trump welcoming “further Indian contributions to promote Afghanistan’s democracy, stability, prosperity, and security. Recognizing the importance of their respective strategic partnerships with Afghanistan, the leaders committed to continue close consultations and cooperation in support of Afghanistan’s future.”

A clearer picture will emerge once Defence Secretary James Mattis unveils the U.S.’ revised Af-Pak policy in mid-July.

Climate change and nuclear deal


While cooperation on energy is highlighted in the Indo-U.S. Joint Statement, it was to be expected that America’s commitment to helping India battle Climate Change would be dropped from all reference, given Mr. Trump’s harsh observations when he pulled out of the Paris accord.

In 2016, this had occupied a hefty space, entitled “Advancing U.S.-India Global Leadership on Climate and Clean Energy”. In 2017, a line in the Trump-Modi Joint statement reads, “The leaders called for a rational approach that balances environment and climate policy, global economic development, and energy security needs,” with no mention of the “increased financial support from donor countries to the Multilateral (Climate Change) Fund” Mr. Obama had promised.

The Indo-U.S. civil nuclear deal, which was due to see the conclusion of the NPCIL-Westinghouse agreement for six reactors by June 2017, appears to be on hold for the moment, with Foreign Secretary Mr. Jaishankar expressing the hope that Westinghouse, which has filed for bankruptcy, will be “back in business” by the end of 2017. Instead of the direct reference to funding the project by the “U.S. Exim Bank” in 2016, there was only a reference to “related project financing.”

However, on a positive note, “President Trump affirmed that the United States continues to remove barriers to energy development and investment in the United States and to U.S. energy exports so that more natural gas, clean coal, and renewable resources and technologies are available to fuel India’s economic growth and inclusive development,” indicating India will be making energy purchases from the U.S.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 27 Jun 2017 15:07

pankajs wrote:
Gus wrote:Nyt vomits. Cannot begin where to dissect this puke.///

In Mr. Modi’s case, supporters of his party circulated fake videos in 2013 of two Hindus being lynched by a Muslim mob. The videos led to rioting that killed 44 people, displaced 42,000 others and split a historical voting alliance between lower-caste Hindus and Muslims. That helped give Mr. Modi a substantial majority in the lower house of Parliament.

Twisting facts will never endear it to the Indian who are Modi's core constituency though It might fetch a few point with the chatteratti.

Even amongst the chattering class the limitation is being recognized.

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... g-4723929/ (This is a Jyoti Malhotra piece)
It is true that Modi’s US visit underlines the fact that he is totally in command of domestic politics – meaning, even if there is international criticism of his own social policies, including the overt intolerance towards Muslims and Dalits as demonstrated by the latest “Economist” magazine, he can easily shrug it off.

Philip
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 27 Jun 2017 16:18

Mr. Modi is the tallest man in India and even if some of his goals haven't borne fruit as yet,the clean image of his govt. and his visionary ambitions for India contrast sharply with the dismal performance and image of the Opposition,both separate and combined. Therefore,when he goes abroad,he is a confident leader who knows that he does not have to pander to the gallery at home for PR reasons. Trump is the man sitting atop a hot oven.He has problems at home and problems abroad. His Arab allies like the saudis aren't making it easier for him with the Saudi jihad against Qatar.

However,Trump faces serious questions about the US-Pak relationship even if Mr.Modi and India have great issue with it. Here,Trump should be bold.The fear that Pak will be embraced by Russia is a load of bull.Russia was the first nation to warn Euroe and the West about the rise and threat of Muslim fundamentalism and terror,tx to their Chechen experience,but the West pooh-poohed them.relations with India are far more important to Putin than a failing state like Pak.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ina-russia
Trump ponders crackdown on Pakistan over terror ties despite experts' warnings
As US mulls strategy over country’s support for terrorist groups in Afghanistan, experts say tougher stance could drive Pakistan toward China and Russia

The Trump administration is considering expanding drone strikes, withholding aid and revoking Pakistan’s status as a major non-Nato ally.
Sune Engel Rasmussen in Kabul and Julian Borger in Washington
Tuesday 27 June 2017
The Trump administration is considering taking a harder stance against Pakistan for supporting terrorist groups in Afghanistan, but experts warn that pressure alone will not bring peace.

Similar tactics have failed in the past, and analysts warn that the US can only influence the south Asian country by coupling force with diplomacy, which president Trump seems to shun.

And attempts to strong-arm Islamabad could push it deeper into a growing alliance with China and Russia, and lead to more instability.

China, in particular, offers Pakistan an opportunity to counter the strengthened union between the US and India, whose presence in Afghanistan the Pakistani military considers an existential threat.

Among the tools considered by the Trump administration, according to Reuters, are expanding drone strikes, withholding aid and revoking Pakistan’s status as a major non-Nato ally. :rotfl:

But attempts to bully Pakistan into submission will only drive Islamabad further towards China, said Ayesha Siddiqa, author and research associate at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London.

“It also means that in Afghanistan, there will be more violence. Pakistan sees Afghanistan as an American-Indian project against Pakistani interests,” she said.

Pakistan is widely believed to harbour and support Taliban militants, and has been regarded as a spoiler in peace talks.

Analysis Donald Trump's hands-off approach gives US military free rein
President has delegated direction of overseas conflicts to his generals, raising fears of unchecked escalation

US policy on Afghanistan is evolving at a time when the defence department is particularly powerful in policy-making, after President Trump delegated authority to defence secretary James Mattis to set troop deployment levels there.

Meanwhile, the state department is weakened by a continuing outflow of veteran diplomats and a notable lack of urgency in replacing them on the part of secretary of state Rex Tillerson, who has backed plans to cut the departmental budget by a third. *(Bring back "Jaws",aka Robin Raphael to bat for Pak what?!)

On Friday, the acting special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan (SRAP), Laurel Miller, left the post along with her deputy, leaving doubts over the future of the position, which was created in 2009 by Barack Obama. A state department statement said that Tillerson “has not made a decision” on the issue.

“It’s a distinction without a difference whether a decision has been made, since there is functionally nobody in the office,” said James Cunningham, a former US ambassador to Afghanistan. “The key part of this isn’t whether there is an SRAP office. It is how is the senior official who is responsible for these issues, and as far as I know, that basically doesn’t exist. This is all part of the whittling down, eviscerating, debilitating of the state department’s ability to participate effectively in diplomacy.”

Economically, China has long surpassed the US in importance in Pakistan. The crown jewel in China’s Pakistani venture is a $62bn infrastructure project, the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. But China has also acquired everything from power companies and contracts to collect garbage to stakes in the Karachi stock exchange.

“It’s unprecedented and very different from what Pakistani-American relations ever were. While the US invested in Pakistan, its dominance will never be like what the Chinese will be,” said Siddiqa.

For Russia, a US-Pakistani rift opens space to oppose American power, as it does through proxies in Syria.

Western officials in Kabul believe, partly for this reason, that Russia has increased its weapons support for the Taliban.
“If I were Putin, I’d be smirking and thinking, this is my chance to get back at the Americans and turn Afghanistan into another Vietnam,” said Siddiqa.
Russia has admitted to sharing intelligence with the Taliban, to fight Isis affiliates.

The Pakistani defence minister has called on Russia to take the lead in stabilising Afghanistan, and in September, Russia and Pakistan conducted their first joint military drill near Peshawar.

However, Hassan Askari Rizvi, a Pakistani analyst, said there is a limit to how much diplomatic turbulence countries in the region are willing to cause.

“For Russia, the first preference in south Asia is obviously India, and therefore Pakistan is not expecting a major shift in relations in the near future,” he said. “There may be a downgrading of relations between them, but Pakistan and US will not totally abandon each other.”

However, he cautioned against intensifying drone strikes on Pakistani soil. “Drones will not help,” he said. “If they are used on the mainland, Pakistan will not accept it, and might retaliate by shooting some drones down,” he said.

Barack Obama also tried to coerce Pakistan, by cutting economic assistance and lowering diplomatic contacts. For instance, Obama never visited Islamabad in his eight years as president.

Obama also reached out to Pakistan’s arch-rival, India, whose prime minister Narendra Modi was welcomed by Trump at the White House on Monday, amid reports that India would buy 22 US Guardian drones for its navy and discuss the possible shift of production of F-16s fighter jets to India.

“Thank you very much for … ordering equipment from the United States. Always makes us feel very good,” Trump said in a joint appearance with Modi in the White House cabinet room. “There’s nobody makes military equipment like we make military equipment.”

If one thing unites various regional powers, it is suspicion of American motives in Afghanistan. In a desire to deny the US its monopoly as a powerbroker, Moscow invited delegates from 12 countries to a peace conference on Afghanistan in March.

Meanwhile, the US is likely planning a deployment of 4,000 additional troops to its longest war.

Countries in the region have long suspected the US of wanting a permanent base in Afghanistan under the guise of fighting terrorists. “They do not believe in the counter terrorism bona fides of the US,” said Barnett Rubin, director of the Afghanistan-Pakistan Regional Program at New York University.

Trump's defense chief admits struggle in Afghanistan: 'We are not winning' *(After so many years and billions upon billions wasted!) :oops:
He added that a troop surge and hard Pakistan line can only succeed if coupled with strong diplomacy. “But they can’t do that by slashing the state department by one-third,” he said.

Afghans have lived under a geopolitical tug-of-war since Russia’s and Britain’s 19th century Great Game. Now it seems more countries than ever are willing to expend political and economic capital to maintain a foothold.

“Unless there is an agreement about Afghanistan between Iran, Russia, China, Pakistan, India and the US, Afghanistan will be unstable,” Rubin said. “And if the idea is that Afghanistan is defended and secured by becoming an American base, there won’t be an agreement.
Last edited by Philip on 27 Jun 2017 18:55, edited 1 time in total.

KJo
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KJo » 27 Jun 2017 17:01

ShauryaT wrote:I have just one question. Why did Modi have to hug him :?:


I agree, he needs to cut the hugs. For some like Trump, it is uncomfortable.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 27 Jun 2017 17:08

+1, I usually fast forward those scenes.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KJo » 27 Jun 2017 17:08

Muns wrote:US designates Hizbul chief Syed Salahuddin as global terrorist ahead of Modi-Trump meeting: Big Win For India: India welcomes move

http://www.india-aware.com/us-designates-hizbul-chief-syed-salahuddin-as-global-terrorist-ahead-of-modi-trump-meeting-big-win-for-india-india-welcomes-move/


Why is it a big win for us? What happens now just because US has woken up? Will they force Pak to do something?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 27 Jun 2017 18:07

It might not change the baki behavior but the world will no longer accept/tolerate the *freedom fighter* fig leaf ... Belatedly but still significant ... US endorsed the Indian position on Kashmir violence as *terrorism*. References to Burhan Wani and his ilks, even within Indian media, was mostly *millitants* rather than *terrorists*. US sets the bestern block agenda. Less pressure on India to talk to ALL stakeholders. Remember all the *Indian civil society* delegations that had been advising the GOI to talk to ALL stakeholders including the hurry-rats.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-co ... st-2485352
'Completely unjustified': Pakistan fumes after US designates Syed Salahuddin a 'global terrorist'
Pakistan slammed as "completely unjustified" the US' designation of individuals supporting the right of "self-determination" of Kashmiris as terrorists, a day after America declared Hizbul Mujahideen chief Syed Salahuddin as a "global terrorist". "Pakistan shall continue to extend political, diplomatic and moral support for the just struggle of the Kashmiri people for the realisation of the right to self-determination and the peaceful resolution of the Jammu and Kashmir dispute in accordance with UN Security Council Resolutions," the Foreign Ministry said here in a statement.


Plus indirect endorsement of the current Indian action in J&K including cross-border raid ...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 27 Jun 2017 18:56

Apologies,offending piece removed.Will be less colourful in future with more civilised innuendos.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Gus » 27 Jun 2017 19:34

CRS - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/us/p ... ml?mcubz=1

--

the syed salahudeen thing may be just symbolic but it does indicate a 'first step' change at least in the WH in how they look at kashmir jihad. whether this will cascade down into real change in SD and US policy to pak remains to be seen.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby saip » 27 Jun 2017 19:36

KJo wrote:
Muns wrote:US designates Hizbul chief Syed Salahuddin as global terrorist ahead of Modi-Trump meeting: Big Win For India: India welcomes move

http://www.india-aware.com/us-designates-hizbul-chief-syed-salahuddin-as-global-terrorist-ahead-of-modi-trump-meeting-big-win-for-india-india-welcomes-move/


Why is it a big win for us? What happens now just because US has woken up? Will they force Pak to do something?


Because it causes serious heartburn to Pakis.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KJo » 27 Jun 2017 19:50

saip wrote:
KJo wrote:
Why is it a big win for us? What happens now just because US has woken up? Will they force Pak to do something?


Because it causes serious heartburn to Pakis.


Who cares about heartburn?
I want their country to burn. :evil:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Bart S » 27 Jun 2017 19:51

nirav wrote:There was tremendous dhoti shivering before the meet.
Bharat Karnad was talking about Trump using hand sanitizers often and wondering how abmodi hug would be dealt with by him.

Even trump administration sees India in a way more positive light than our desi think thanks and some diggajs.

There was stupid af discussion on TV on impact of our relationship with pakis and what not as a result of the summit.


Ironically the guy is pro-Russian and ignores the fact that Putin has been up to such antics when dealing with Indians.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 27 Jun 2017 20:23

KJo wrote:
saip wrote:
Because it causes serious heartburn to Pakis.


Who cares about heartburn?
I want their country to burn. :evil:


You think the US, or anyone else, is going to achieve that for us?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 27 Jun 2017 20:30

Vishal Jolapara wrote:Visit of Prime Minister Modi to USA in photos:

...

Ambassador Sarna and the other desis watch Kushner & co come and are expecting them to come by and say hello expectantly but he just goes in the second row beside Ivanka and they go into their own huddle subsequently, by then so do the SDREs. I see absolutely no mingling between us & them :-?
...



Compare this to the effusive warmth that Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump have shown towards the Chinese. Taking their little daughter to the Chinese Embassy on Chinese New Year, where she sang a song in Mandarin. Playing a major role in the feting of Xi Jinping by Trump at Mar-a-Lago with huge pomp and circumstance. Issuing many many personal tweets of photos and cell-phone videos, particularly from Ivanka, celebrating the US-Chinese relationship... conveying an unmistakable sense of personal warmth over and above the photo-ops and video clips taken by professional media people from a distance.

Confirms everything we have heard about Jared Kushner.

His family made a bad investment in a skyscraper, 666 Fifth Ave in New York. He desperately needed cash for his family business concern to get out of that hole. Enter PRC, flush with funds. Suddenly the entire Trump policy towards PRC (pro-Taiwan, anti-currency manipulation, etc. etc.) undergoes a 180-degree turn.

Given that Kushner is Beijing's rent-boy, of course, he cannot be seen as being "close" to the Indians in any way. Doesn't even stop and say hello to the Indian Ambassador or to Modi's retinue when they are at the White House.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 27 Jun 2017 20:39

A_Gupta wrote:
CRamS wrote:[ Question I have is does ModiJi give non-white leaders the same enthusiastic Hug? I guess he does, but I'm trying to recall. Minor issue anyway.


Yes, minor issue, or else you could have easily found this and answered your own question:
https://qz.com/601937/narendra-modi-and ... bear-hugs/
This is from January 25, 2016 -- more than an year ago -- and is titled: "A BRIEF HISTORY Narendra Modi hugging people"


Thank you Sir. I like the one with Baba Ramdev, most appropriate and warm.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 27 Jun 2017 20:39

Rudradev wrote:
KJo wrote:
Who cares about heartburn?
I want their country to burn. :evil:


You think the US, or anyone else, is going to achieve that for us?


modi meeting trump in the US, the other shoe has not yet dropped.

They need something from us or need us for something without us asking too many questions.

It looks like the deep state that has driven this meeting and the agenda.

the bonhomie is not so easy for trump to pull off but he seems to have grit his teeth and carried on like a trooper.

A few measly billion in drone sales is far less than what he extracted from the saudis and the qataris.

no controversies, no contentious issues and no tangible expectations, at least not any that has leaked so far.

This has not happened in any of trump's meetings so far and the closest to a normal state visit was only with the hans, next to the India visit.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Manish_Sharma » 27 Jun 2017 20:43

I have watched the 'hugs'' and they looked perfectly natural to me. In fact hugs with Obama were always awkward.

I also liked it the way Trump respectfully put his hand on NaMo's back and invited him in then both Trump and First Lady walked behind NaMo.

Would obama / hillary have done 'salahdin' thing OR uttered words like "Islamic Terrorism" the way President Trump did?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 27 Jun 2017 20:51

Guys, problem with Indian media is the obsession, and problem with the US media is the contempt and apathy.

On substance though, I would say net positive for both US and India. US gets what it wants anyway by default. Couple of irritating pointers. On the surgical strikes. I mean whom is ModiJi trying to fool? Firstly, as much as we all supported that strike, way too much hype for too little too late. Its not as if TSP is shivering in its undies. If anything, they have upped the ante and taken scores of our guys since the strike. Next, the world not "questioning" those strikes, man its pathetic. Firstly, why should India give a f!ck what the world thinks after the manner in which TSP attacked us in Uri and any country is honor bound to respond, and secondly, I can bet my last penny, the "world" did not even take cognizance of those strikes. If ignorance is acquiescence, then probably ModiJi is correct. But from India's PoV, IMO, enough hyping of the surgical strikes until of course, we can subject TSP to a barrage of sustained surgical strikes till they behave.

On declaring Salahuddin a terrorist. Very minor to zero impact. TSP will continue to do what it does: war of 1000 barbaric cuts hoping India will get tired and hand over Kashmir on a silver platter. Thus, US declaring a pipsqueak like Salahuddin is going to make no difference. Only when TSPA gets hurt big time, either through crippling US sanctions, or Indian military hits, will TSP countenance any change in its pigLeT policy.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 27 Jun 2017 20:57

Bhai logs ... don't dwell on the hugs. They are not for you citybred cynical folks. They are for the rural folks most of whom are not into this face/body reading business. Modi is trying to build an image with them using his great *friendship* with these world leaders.

Also, check his insistence of using Hindi. He is directly addressing this constituency. He is using his foreign trips for marketing in that sense. Nothing wrong with that.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jun 2017 21:13

On declaring Salahuddin a terrorist. Very minor to zero impact.

er... if you watched NaMo's speech at deeSee to commyoonitty. He had a strange claim on the Surgical Ishtrikes, which were emphasized QUITE A BIT in both the preceding PR video and his speech.
So what did he say (my translation):
....And there was NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY that expressed any concerns about our having done the strike!

As I heard I was thinking: (dhoti shiver). Isn't he putting the Sonar Bandar on the spot with that in-ur-face brag?

**Now** take the subsequent Ophishial Ishtatement from the Sonar Bandar and put yourself in Salahuddin's pajamas (ugh!) and see how that makes ur musharraf feel. :mrgreen:
Plus the clear demand to bring the 11/27 scum to "justice".
Both are equivalent to having all their photos posted at the Dodge City Post Office. It's clear as day statement that now the Yoo Ess officially recognizes the Hizb, the Purest of Kashmiri Phreedom Phighters, as the bloody Paki terrorists they have always been. So a massive crackdown on Paki terrorism, everywhere inside Kashmir or anywhere else in the world, would be quite OK.
Pressure is on GOI now to deliver. As Mullah Patton ordered in the movie:
Open Fire. Fire at Will. Fire to Kill.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 27 Jun 2017 21:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 27 Jun 2017 21:25

chetak, Those Guardian drones are for Paki and Chinese sub-hunting in addition to watching for the sundry terrorist attack boats. I expect they will be stationed in West and East coast air bases/air stations.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 27 Jun 2017 21:28

UB,
I got the same feeling that another SS on SS is to be expected.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KJo » 27 Jun 2017 21:39

Rudradev wrote:
KJo wrote:
Who cares about heartburn?
I want their country to burn. :evil:


You think the US, or anyone else, is going to achieve that for us?



No. Which is why I asked my earlier question. What are the tangible benefits of getting that fellow called a terrorist?
Is the US going to make Pakistan cough him up? Merely having the white man call someone a terrorist does nothing for India.


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