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India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 27 Jun 2017 21:52

Ask yourself: what is the tangible detriment of China putting a hold on Masood Azhar being declared a terrorist at the UN? (Does the UN declaring him a terrorist or not, affect our ability and willingness to actually do something about him?) No it doesn't, so the detriment is not "tangible".

However, there is a diplomatic detriment, right? Masood Azhar is running a jihad to separate J&K from India. International censure of Masood Azhar implies international support for India's position on J&K vs. Pakistan's position. Lack of international censure (as imposed by China's hold) undermines that.

The "benefit" of US declaring Salahuddin a terrorist is equivalent to that but in the positive direction for India. A diplomatic benefit, that's all. In fact, that's all we should expect the US to do for us. The rest of it is our battle to fight.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 27 Jun 2017 21:56

And China supports Masood Azhar because it wants to undermine India's legitimacy over J&K and thus further its CPEC boondoggle.
That is why it repeatedly blocks declaring Azhar as a terrorist.


Now if Azhar or Salahuddin meet their maker due to playing around with toys or revenge attacks by their minions then this irritant goes away.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby yensoy » 27 Jun 2017 21:56

chetak wrote:modi meeting trump in the US, the other shoe has not yet dropped.
They need something from us or need us for something without us asking too many questions.
It looks like the deep state that has driven this meeting and the agenda.


As I said in a post earlier, Modi gives legitimacy to Trump, something that the latter so lusts for. In the current situation Trump is in, having a world leader like Modi only enhances his own prestige. So behind all the goodness of the visit might be some plain selfishness on the part of Trump.

Having said that, the State Department/deep state will have its own pound of flesh to extract, Trump or NT. That pound of flesh will not be related to commercial interests, and it has been seen that US did not get any commercial win with this visit (shale gas was already being imported, and planes order was predictable happenstance).

Blacklisting Salahuddin, it should be vociferously pointed out by the Indian MEA, is something the US should have done/has done in its self-interest and not to appease Indians. Gandhiji did not join the British war against the Nazis due to any love for the British or expectations of future handouts. He did so because the Nazi ideology was abhorrent, and he felt it was his moral and ethical imperative to act against them. Let the State Department realize that this act will only be seen as a gesture and coming-to-Jesus moment on US's part by the Indians. In other words, this is quid-pro-quo for nothing. Now if they are considering declaring Pak a terrorist state, then let's talk.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jun 2017 21:58

IMO, "getting" SS (who is wheelchair-bound) or the LET sultan Haffez Saeed is not work risking Indian lives. Their presence, live and "safe' is worth much more, as India conducts "SS", purportedly in search of them, but sweeping up a lot of their assistants. Like killing/capturing AQ#3s time and again was a much better tactic than wasting time finding OBL in the Binori madarssa. Let the pakis waste resources guarding and protecting SS and HS while their minions get massacred. Anything that India can do to make POK/Balwaristan untenable for Pak Army, is all a plus.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 27 Jun 2017 22:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ShauryaT » 27 Jun 2017 22:00

Bharat Karnad's take.

Score the physical for Modi, the substantive for Trump, and danger looming

(Modi’s jhappi for an awkwardly unprepared Trump at the White House)

He did it. Prime Minister Narendra Modi did stride across to the other lectern and envelope US President Donald Trump in a hug. Now slo-mo that entire sequence and you’ll see that even when forewarned about the Indian leader doing precisely this, Trump was unprepared for the physicality of it, and with some awkwardness limply reciprocated by putting his arm around Modi’s shoulders. This was the PM’s way of imposing himself physically on his American counterpart, forcing him to react. This was no bad game play.

But this imposition did not extend to the economic aspects of relations in the joint statement, where the US had its way. Sure, the designation of Syed Salahuddin of the Hizbul Mujahideen as global terrorist (GT) must have satisfied the Indian side enough for it to hold back on injecting anything remotely related to the free flow of services and skilled manpower (H!B visa issue) in the public statement by Modi. Moreover, while there was mention about destroying “radical Islamic terrorism” — which phrase for Trump was a repeat from his Riyadh summit with the Saud-led sunni collective, there was none about Pakistan, its role in using terrorism against India or Afghanistan, or any pointed reference as was sought by Delhi.

The US State Department’s cleverness here must be noted. It played up to the Indians with the naming of Salahuddin without undermining its interests in Pakistan, which last would have happened had the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba chief Hafiz Sayeed earned the GT label from Trump as well, something MEA had lobbied for.


The fact is the US, notwithstanding its high-flying rhetoric about empowering the Indian military with cutting-edge fighting technology to keep the common threat, China, on its toes, not a single military high-tech collaboration has got underway from the time such talk was initiated by President Reagan’s Defence Secretary Caspar Weinberger in the mid-1980s. There’s something really wrong here.

The US hesitation in exporting/selling to India some decisive miltech is evidenced, for instance, in Washington’s approving the long-range, long endurance, Predator drone for maritime surveillance rather than the armed Predator India was keen to buy in fairly large numbers, because the US State Department fears these would be used against terrorist targets in POK, and upset the American apple cart in the Af-Pak Region.

Further, as I have consistently pointed out, it seems Trump’s government, in line with the previous regimes in Washington, has decided to impose a low lethality ceiling on the armaments/technologies the US sells to India. Whence the American eagerness to sell unarmed drones, obsolete F-16 type combat aircraft, and prohibitively expensive technologies that Indian platforms cannot cost-effectively integrate, such as the EMALS (Electro-Magnetic Aircraft Launch System) for the 2nd and 3rd indigenous V-class carriers being built in Kochi.

Perhaps, the Modi government, aware of the limitations of the America connection, sent off part-time defence minister Arun Jaitley to Moscow to firm up defence ties with Russia (including the lease of the second Akula SSN, and investing in the FGFA) around the same time as the PM was taking off for the US.

Better to have the Russian bird in hand, than two American birds in the bush.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Bart S » 27 Jun 2017 22:18

UlanBatori wrote:....And there was NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY that expressed any concerns about our having done the strike!


I was a bit disappointed with that statement.

It implies that we give a flying **** about what other countries think of our legitimate defensive actions, and still haven't come out of the log kya kahenge mindset. Of course other countries opinions matter etc, but it would have been good for that not to be stated that way in public by the PM of the country no less.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 27 Jun 2017 22:34

UlanBatori wrote:IMO, "getting" SS (who is wheelchair-bound) or the LET sultan Haffez Saeed is not work risking Indian lives. Their presence, live and "safe' is worth much more, as India conducts "SS", purportedly in search of them, but sweeping up a lot of their assistants. Like killing/capturing AQ#3s time and again was a much better tactic than wasting time finding OBL in the Binori madarssa. Let the pakis waste resources guarding and protecting SS and HS while their minions get massacred. Anything that India can do to make POK/Balwaristan untenable for Pak Army, is all a plus.


Any terrorist leader that's eliminated will be replaced by someone else. So no point in deliberately ensuring long lives to SS and HS.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 27 Jun 2017 23:15

Sehzaad Chutiya "saab" was on his favorite TV channel in India fielding softball questions by a Bimbo host, and was pretty in-your-face and challenged India and US to declare entire KM population as terrorists. He said start with their proxies, Umar Fakroo, Vegetarian Terrorists, Jihadi Geelani etc also as terrorists. Not sure if this is putting on a brave face in the face of an embarrassment at having one of their assets a terrorist, or they could care less.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 27 Jun 2017 23:47

CRamS wrote: Question I have is does ModiJi give non-white leaders the same enthusiastic Hug? I guess he does, but I'm trying to recall. Minor issue anyway

Question I have is the fact that previous POTUS (Obama) was not exactly "white" is too hard to recall? Minor issue anyway.
(Enjoyed A Gupta's post wrt A BRIEF HISTORY Narendra Modi hugging people!)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 27 Jun 2017 23:55

Amber GJi, if you know the disease psychology of SDRE colonized minds, you will note that anything Amriki or western is essentially white. So Obama doesn't count. In any case, not the topic of this thread, and ModiJi's hugs, while I don't like them, are a minor issue in the grand scheme of things.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Jun 2017 03:31

Manish_Sharma wrote:I also liked it the way Trump respectfully put his hand on NaMo's back and invited him in then both Trump and First Lady walked behind NaMo.


From a body language perspective - the hand on the back thing is a clear indicator of who is boss. In general the guy who gives the pat is the mai baap. Watch @ 6:44 - shows how much of a munna UK is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY1K_IefjSA

Having said this, it might not mean much in case of the Modi-Trump interaction since the WH is afterall, Trump's home.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 28 Jun 2017 03:48

Bart S wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:....And there was NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY that expressed any concerns about our having done the strike!


I was a bit disappointed with that statement.

It implies that we give a flying **** about what other countries think of our legitimate defensive actions, and still haven't come out of the log kya kahenge mindset. Of course other countries opinions matter etc, but it would have been good for that not to be stated that way in public by the PM of the country no less.


I think the reason he said this was to rub mirch in Pakistan's musharraf.

Pakis are the ones who are hyper-conscious of how their campaign of Islamist terrorism and nuclear blackmail is being viewed by the world: "We are also victims of terrorism, J&K self-determination is the core issue, we are entitled to achieve strategic depth in Afghanistan by excluding India, we sacrificed so much in the war on terror" etc.

If no country in the world thinks we were unjustified in doing the strike, it shows that Modi's diplomacy has been successful-- not in safeguarding against "log kya kahengey" for India's sake, but in ensuring that no country gives a flying **** for Pakistan's demands to be treated like a responsible/legitimate member of the comity of nations. They all know that Pakistan is a terrorist cesspit and that any slap it receives from India or anyone else is well-deserved.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Guddu » 28 Jun 2017 04:27

Philip wrote:Three-quarters of world has little or no confidence in Trump, Pew study finds
Support for US president now below that of George Bush following Iraq invasion
Israel and Russia have faith in Trump – not so European allies
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... arch-study


I would be careful of believing "3/4 of world has no conf in Trump"...the media is against him. Surely you have heard of the very Fake News...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krisna » 28 Jun 2017 05:07

About hugs-- some parts of the world have hugs as a means of greeting people.

This is fairly common in OLD WORLD.-- does not matter which region.

new world or the so called western world has lost its moorings about its past cultural practices.
The individual space has enlarged in western world for individuals. hence hugging means encroaching into PERSONAL space which is a strict NO-NO in western world. hence many western world leaders are a little loath to indulge in this behavior.

NaMo by doing this to western world shows that he does not mind encroaching into western leaders individual space which is another way of saying or dominating him. If western leaders reciprocate him warmly it is equal equal from eastern world view point.

This is missing from body language experts who are of western variety steeped in western mannerisms. This is BS for easterner cultures.


IMHO this is a masterstroke from eastern body language experts .
Think about it. :P 8)

------------------------------------------------------

people should not read too much of western body language experts not their views as they talk of western cultural practices.

One should project those into easterners cultural practices. It then becomes of seeing ourselves thru westerners eyes.

Hope folks here get the point.


IOW as Balagangadhar says -- colonial consciousness of different type.d

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Y I Patel » 28 Jun 2017 05:53

The biggest development coming out of this meeting is the potential agreement on purchase of US Natural Gas. This is an issue that will directly touch Middle America and give India a level of positive engagement that no amount of diplomatic bonhomie can achieve. This is mutual interests writ large, with significant geopolitical implications. And it is directed at Qatar and Iran, the two current suppliers of India. No wonder the Ayatollahs suddenly realized there is a terrorist movement worth supporting in Kashmir! Another word that I latched on to in Trump's mention of this deal is that it will be a long term deal. This is where US and India engagement can get a stability credit, unlike the political risk in the Middle East and the related risk premium that is built into any long term deals involving that region. In contrast, a US-India deal is a low political risk proposition because of assured demand and stable markets, which will make possible financial sweeteners for the buyer. Win Win.

Another thing that the Indian side was deft about is how they gave Princess Ivanka a plum role in leading the US delegation to India. This will make her look good, does not cost India anything, and goes a long way in keeping the Donald sweet. Smart diplomacy.

And by the way. A huge uncertainty was removed about clearances for F16s in Make In India Single Fighter contest. So that should see rapid progress now.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chanakyaa » 28 Jun 2017 07:09

Can you please explain how transporting natural gas 10,000 nautical miles from Texas to India compares cost-wise to transporting 1,500 nautical miles from Doha?
Are you sure that the region is not purposely kept unstable to prevent India from importing nat gas com its closest neighbors?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Jun 2017 07:18

^^^It all depends on cost. US companies and GAIL already have LNG agreements. Trumpanzee proposes further and could happen.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chanakyaa » 28 Jun 2017 07:47

Agree on cost, but what I was trying to highlight was a bigger power play in the natural gas world in which countries are trying to corner the market by sanctioning other lower cost producers; and preventing countries from developing stronger economic ties. Sanctions, wars, and poor investment have prevented India from developing gas fields in its own neighborhood making it dependent on others. Here is one prime example.

Poland importing LNG by sea

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby SSridhar » 28 Jun 2017 07:48

ramana wrote:chetak, Those Guardian drones are for Paki and Chinese sub-hunting in addition to watching for the sundry terrorist attack boats. I expect they will be stationed in West and East coast air bases/air stations.

Well, I expect some of them to be stationed at INS Parundu.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Jun 2017 08:27

chanakyaa wrote:Agree on cost, but what I was trying to highlight was a bigger power play in the natural gas world in which countries are trying to corner the market by sanctioning other lower cost producers; and preventing countries from developing stronger economic ties. Sanctions, wars, and poor investment have prevented India from developing gas fields in its own neighborhood making it dependent on others. Here is one prime example.

Poland importing LNG by sea


Absolutely. It was done with Iraq and now with Iran. Natural gas as a fuel for power plants is ideal to replace coal. There may be enough natural gas on the Indian subcontinent and offshore to extract via shale fracking. Our goal is to get to a $10T economy and cheap gas is the way there. Dealing with the US may be dealing with the mafia. Where India will have to bide its time until its time comes.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Gagan » 28 Jun 2017 08:37

Will the Guardian drones be connected in a network with the P-8Is?
If india has datalinks and the required 4-5 letter agreements?

So a maritime network centric warfighting environment being set up by India with full US cooperation

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 28 Jun 2017 08:54

Our p8 have non US comms link from BEL. Same would need install by oem on guardian.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 28 Jun 2017 08:56

Btw guardian drones have radar and thermal but no asw sensors. They are designed for surveillance.

Asw only p8 can do

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Paul » 28 Jun 2017 09:45

It is possible that exact config of sensors and gear has not been finalized yet.

For ex: the P8s for the IN have MAD installed as a modification wheras the US Navy P8s does not have them. The IN will definitely be interested in using the hardpoints for carrying additional sensors.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Jun 2017 09:54

This is an item from June 1st:
https://energy.gov/articles/us-departme ... re-project
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The U.S. Department of Energy announced today that it has approved a long-term application to export liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the first offshore project, Delfin LNG, LLC (Delfin). Exports in the amount of 1.8 billion cubic feet per day (Bcf/d) of natural gas are approved from Delfin’s proposed offshore Louisiana floating LNG terminal in the Gulf of Mexico.


Federal law requires approval of natural gas exports to countries that have an FTA with the United States. For countries that do not have an FTA with the United States, the Natural Gas Act directs the Energy Department to grant export authorizations unless the Department finds that the proposed exports “will not be consistent with the public interest.”


The Energy Department conducted an extensive review of the Delfin LNG, LLC application. Among other factors, the Department considered the economic, energy security, and environmental impacts, including macroeconomic studies that showed positive benefits to the U.S. economy in scenarios with LNG exports up to 28 Bcf/d. The Department determined that exports from the Delfin LNG terminal, jointly owned by the India and Singapore-based Fairwood Group and the U.S.-based Peninsula group, for a period of 20 years, was not inconsistent with the public interest.


Fairwood Group, Peninsula Group ==> Fairwood Peninsula Energy
Bloomberg company overview: https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stoc ... =290495824

The economics of LNG:
http://shareholdersunite.com/the-ioc-fi ... cs-of-lng/

The Delfin terminal has been under construction by Bechtel since around 2015:
http://www.bechtel.com/newsroom/release ... g-lng-usa/

Info about the Delfin LNG project (choose "Project Overview" from the "The Project" tab): http://www.delfinlng.com/

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 28 Jun 2017 10:14

Article today in our media about our ailing coal plants.
Will India Ever Need Another Coal Plant?
KRUTIKA PATHI MAY 25, 2017
https://www.citylab.com/tech/2017/05/wi ... nt/528111/

Right now most of our gas is coming from Qatar,but the imports keep rising.US imports beginning from this yr. WE must watch the price of our imports from diff. exporters,but sustained US gas imports could add another dimension to relations.
India’s LNG imports continue to rise
http://www.lngworldnews.com/indias-lng- ... to-rise-2/
Last edited by Philip on 28 Jun 2017 10:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Schmidt » 28 Jun 2017 10:23

Guddu wrote:
Philip wrote:Three-quarters of world has little or no confidence in Trump, Pew study finds
Support for US president now below that of George Bush following Iraq invasion
Israel and Russia have faith in Trump – not so European allies
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... arch-study

----------------------------------

And that is good news for us

Trump would value the few friends he has

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 28 Jun 2017 10:43

Singha wrote:Btw guardian drones have radar and thermal but no asw sensors. They are designed for surveillance.

Asw only p8 can do


It is possible that sonobouy data can/will be recieved on board these drones using Indian systems/India installed systems.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 28 Jun 2017 11:44

Possible. A p8 could launch so buoys wide area and let guardian monitor and retransmit for hours .... but if it moves too far will not be able to return to engage

Unless a asroc type missile is devised from ships

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 28 Jun 2017 11:56

Anti-sub Klub variant available.
Sea Guardian UCAVs,relevance:
I've just posted in the intl. N. td. some thoughts on cheap flat tops/leveraging our planned amphibs/"multi-role support vessels",for just this purpose.Giving it both limited strike (NLCA type aircraft) and ASW capability.Based in the A&N islands,Lakshadweep and even say Mauritius/Seychelles in the future,these UCAVs would be excellent platforms for monitoring PLAN/PN sub and surface fleet ops in the IOR.

‘Seychelles committed to Indian naval base’
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 022404.ece
Kallol Bhattacherjee NEW DELHI:, DECEMBER 23, 2015 22:47 IST
UPDATED: MARCH 24, 2016
Seychelles is expecting India’s evaluation team to visit the spot soon, PresidentJames Michel told The Hindu.
Seychelles President acknowledges that India has been steadily increasing its maritime and security cooperation with Seychelles.

A plot of land for India to build its first naval base in the Indian Ocean region has been allocated by the Seychelles government in the Assumption Island.

Lifting the veil of secrecy around the planned project, President James Michel of the Seychelles told The Hindu: “This is a joint project between India and Seychelles involving our two Defence Forces in enhancing our mutual security along our western seaboard. Seychelles is absolutely committed to the project.”

Seychelles is expecting India’s evaluation team to visit the spot soon, President Michel said. The project has acquired significance following China acquiring its first African naval base in Djibouti in November. Once ready, the naval base to be built by the defence forces of India, and Seychelles will help India exercise greater control over the Indian Ocean’s western region all the way to the piracy-prone eastern African coastline.

The base will be one of the major staging posts for a large maritime security network that India is setting up with the help of the various Indian Ocean region partner countries.

Apart from the naval base, India is set to acquire a fully operational coastal radar system (CRS) based in Seychelles from March 2016, Mr. Michel said. The CRS will provide India with the ability to gather intelligence and assist in surveillance operations of the vital energy lanes near Seychelles.

“The Maritime Radar Project is a major development for Seychelles’ and India’s mutual desire for security in the field of maritime security,” said President Michel, who was sworn in for a third term on December 20.

Fighting piracy
Security operation in the Indian Ocean region will also be helped by the leadership role that Seychelles has secured for itself in the Contact Group for Piracy off the Coast of Somalia (CGPCS), which will hold its first meeting in Mumbai on January 31, 2016. “Both India and Seychelles have a vested interest in securitising the Western Indian Ocean. We have forged a partnership that has gone a fair distance in eradicating the scourge of Somalia-based piracy as well as other maritime security issues.”

Mr. Michel acknowledged that India has been steadily increasing its maritime and security cooperation with Seychelles and that a new patrol vessel from India will be handed over to Seychelles in mid-January 2016.

“These initiatives have greatly helped our security environment,” said the President who visited New Delhi in August. He had been persistent in building a security network to prevent piracy, arms trafficking and financial fraud in the banks of the Indian Ocean region islands.

India, with its strong intelligence network, will also be helpful in maritime law enforcement by Seychelles, he added. While declaring support for India’s maritime security plans, President Michel pointed out that small nations are equally important in the contemporary world order and need to be taken seriously for the sake of preserving the security and order.


The deal must be pursued asap. With the expanded footprint of IN bases in Indian as well as n the IOR littorals,we may need much more than just 22 Sea Guardians,plus more P-8Is.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 28 Jun 2017 13:16

A base in mauritius oe reunion island would be nice too
And hopefully one on mainland in kenya or tanzania

Oman perhaps in the gulf region

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 28 Jun 2017 13:37

mauritius is too down south, we may not see any action there. Oman will be ideal.

Singha
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 28 Jun 2017 15:34

it has friendly govt and deep ties to india. would be a good move to keep our engagement strong.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chanakyaa » 28 Jun 2017 18:03

Philip wrote:...

Right now most of our gas is coming from Qatar,but the imports keep rising.US imports beginning from this yr. WE must watch the price of our imports from diff. exporters,but sustained US gas imports could add another dimension to relations.
India’s LNG imports continue to rise
http://www.lngworldnews.com/indias-lng- ... to-rise-2/

This LNG import news pretty much explains the timing of Qatar sanctions or at least part of it.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Jun 2017 18:30

I don't think the Qatar sanctions are related to India importing more LNG. It has to do with Saudi, Qatar and Iranian influence.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 28 Jun 2017 18:45

Mort Walker wrote:I don't think the Qatar sanctions are related to India importing more LNG. It has to do with Saudi, Qatar and Iranian influence.


and the independence course charted by qatar backed by its gas wealth that frees it of saudi interference and saudi hegemony.

The biggest thorn in the saudi flesh is the qarati owned al jazeera tv network.

they are seeking to neuter the qataris for all times to come.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby NRao » 29 Jun 2017 08:36

Trump-Modi “joint statement” strongly affirms US-India security ties

Leading into Monday’s meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Donald Trump, both sides had conspicuously pitched expectations low, portraying it as a “getting-to-know-each-other” summit.

Surprising many, the joint statement, issued by New Delhi and Washington after one-on-one and delegation level talks, turned out to be an assertive endorsement of shared security interests and an expanding strategic partnership.

Whether on cooperation in the Indo-Pacific, on combating Pakistan-backed terrorism, regional issues like Afghanistan and North Korea or US-Indian defence sales, there was convergence enough to compensate for the mild divergences in trade and commerce.

The Indo-Pacific

Trump’s blow-hot-blow-cold vacillation on China had observers anticipating a downgrade in Washington’s formerly vigorous cultivation of New Delhi as a strategic hedge to China. However, that was put to rest in the very first section of the joint statement.

Echoing the “Joint Strategic Vision” spelt out during Barack Obama’s January 2015 visit to New Delhi, the document “agreed to take further measures to strengthen their partnership.” This was outlined in the statement as a set of principles that regional countries were urged to adopt.

These included the Chinese bugbears of “respecting freedom of navigation, overflight, and commerce throughout the region”; and a call to nations “to resolve territorial and maritime disputes peacefully and in accordance with international law.”

This is directed at Beijing, and its aggressive assertion of claims over territory and waters in the South and East China Seas. Beijing has also rejected the ruling of an international court of arbitration that rejected China’s “historical claim” over most of the South China Sea, as expressed by its so-called “Nine Dash Line”.

Former White House staffer, Josh White, has noted that a joint statement’s structure is designed to send a broader message. He tweets: “In this case, leading off with a section on the Indo-Pacific sends a signal that the emphasis embodied in the [Joint Strategic Vision 2015] is still operative…”

In another broadside directed at Beijing’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), the joint statement supports the creation of infrastructure for boosting regional economic connectivity, but only “while ensuring respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity, the rule of law, and the environment.”

India has ostentatiously rejected the BRI on the grounds that its China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) violates India’s territorial integrity, being unilaterally routed through Gilgit-Baltistan, which India claims as part of Jammu & Kashmir.

Pakistan-backed terrorism

Another Indian gain is the strong statement against terrorism, especially that originating in Pakistan: “The leaders called on Pakistan to ensure that its territory is not used to launch terrorist attacks on other countries. They further called on Pakistan to expeditiously bring to justice the perpetrators of the 26/11 Mumbai, Pathankot, and other cross-border terrorist attacks perpetrated by Pakistan-based groups.”

The joint statement resolves to cooperate in combating “terrorist threats from groups including Al-Qa’ida, ISIS [Islamic State of Iraq and Syria], Jaish-e-Mohammad, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, D-Company [Dawood Ibrahim’s group], and their affiliates.”

Leading into the summit, there were Indian apprehensions that Trump’s anti-terrorist preoccupations were restricted to West Asian groups like ISIS. As it turned out, Trump ticked all the Indian boxes, calling out Pakistan unequivocally.

Also gratifying to India was the US administration’s designation, just prior to the summit, of Hizb-ul-Mujahideen chief, Syed Salahuddin, as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist.

China, in contrast, continues to block India’s bid to place Azhar Masood, the Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed chief, on a UN terrorist threat.

In last night’s US-India statement, “the leaders welcomed a new consultation mechanism on domestic and international terrorist designations listing proposals.”

While Obama had been reluctant to do this, Trump agreed to affirming “support for a U.N. Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism that will advance and strengthen the framework for global cooperation and reinforce the message that no cause or grievance justifies terrorism.”

“Major defence partnership”

Putting meat on the bones of America’s recent designation of India as a “major defence partner”, the joint statement equated India with the closest US allies. “The United States and India look forward to working together on advanced defence equipment and technology at a level commensurate with that of the closest allies and partners of the United States.”

As expected, the joint statement noted that the US has offered India the sale of Sea Guardian Unmanned Aerial Systems, to “enhance India’s capabilities and promote shared security interests.” The over $2 billion sale proposed is for 22 Guardian systems.

Also in the delivery pipeline are four Boeing P-8I Poseidon maritime aircraft for a billion dollars; about $3 billion worth of helicopters – including 22 AH-64E Apache attack helicopters and 15 CH-47F Chinook heavy lifters – and a $700 million order for 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers.

Separately, on Monday, the US Congress was notified about a proposed sale to India of a C-17 Globemaster III heavy lift transport aircraft for an estimated $366 million.

As Business Standard had revealed (“No F-16 deal during Modi’s visit to US), the proposal by Lockheed Martin to transfer its production line from the US to build the F-16 in India was discussed, but not included in the joint statement.

Votaries of the F-16 would take heart from Modi’s remarks to the media, in which he said: “President Trump and I have also spoken about strengthening bilateral defence technology and our trade and manufacturing partnership, which we believe will be mutually beneficial to us.”

While the two countries’ navies already exercise together in the annual Malabar exercise, which will be held next month, the US could also be joining the biannual Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS), which is restricted to littoral countries.

With India already admitted to the Missile Technology Control Regime, the joint statement expressed strong support for “early membership” to the other three global proliferation regimes – the Nuclear Suppliers Group, the Wassenaar Arrangement, and the Australia Group.

Trump also reaffirmed American support “for India’s permanent membership on a reformed U.N. Security Council.”

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 01 Jul 2017 12:30

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pentagon ... in-1719176
Pentagon Asked To Work Closely With India In Maritime Domain
The amendment came as China increased its maritime presence in the Indian Ocean by docking its ships at ports in Karachi and Colombo.
WASHINGTON: A key Senate panel has asked the Pentagon to reassess its approach to partner with India and cooperate with it in anti-submarine warfare, amid China's increased naval presence in the Indian Ocean. An amendment in this regard to the National Defence Authorisation Act (NDAA)-2018, moved by Senator Ted Cruz, was passed by the Senate Armed Services Committee early this week.
It is a part of Senator Cruz's effort to further implement the designation of India as a 'Major Defence Partner'.
"Few partnerships in the 21st century carry more strategic significance than United States' partnership with India, the world's largest democracy," Ted Cruz's office said.
"Even so, Senator Cruz believes that the current bilateral cooperation and joint development need to be more closely aligned with the shared interests of maritime domain awareness and anti-submarine warfare," it said.
As such Senator Cruz secured an amendment that calls on Department of Defence to reassess its approach to partnering with India and to appoint an individual to oversee this process.
The amendment came as China increased its maritime presence in the Indian Ocean by docking its ships at ports in Karachi and Colombo.
Further, the bill notes that Taiwan is vital for American national security in the Asia-Pacific and alleges that China is seeking to isolate Taiwan from its allies and partners across the world.
The NDAA-2018 amendment comes days after India and the US sought to increase their military-to-military engagement and defence trade.
"The United States remains a reliable provider of advanced defence articles in support of India's military modernisation efforts," said a fact-sheet issued by the White House on Monday after a meeting between US President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
....

Gautam

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 01 Jul 2017 12:41

chetak wrote:
Rudradev wrote:
You think the US, or anyone else, is going to achieve that for us?


modi meeting trump in the US, the other shoe has not yet dropped.

They need something from us or need us for something without us asking too many questions.

It looks like the deep state that has driven this meeting and the agenda.

the bonhomie is not so easy for trump to pull off but he seems to have grit his teeth and carried on like a trooper.

A few measly billion in drone sales is far less than what he extracted from the saudis and the qataris.

no controversies, no contentious issues and no tangible expectations, at least not any that has leaked so far.

This has not happened in any of trump's meetings so far and the closest to a normal state visit was only with the hans, next to the India visit.


has the other shoe just dropped??

why should the pentagon identify a larger role for India in afghanistan??

Are we going to fight under their military commanders?? or has the amreki fantasy of Indian body bags in their WOT just been dusted off and once again rejuvenated by trump??

PENTAGON ASKED TO IDENTIFY LARGER ROLE FOR INDIA IN AFGHANISTAN



PENTAGON ASKED TO IDENTIFY LARGER ROLE FOR INDIA IN AFGHANISTAN

Friday, 30 June 2017 | Washington

Pentagon asked to identify larger role for India in Afghanistan
The Pentagon has been asked by a key Senate panel to identify ways so that India can play a larger role in providing increased and coordinated defence- related support to war-torn Afghanistan.

A resolution moved in this regard by Alaska Senator Dan Sullivan was unanimously passed by the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday as part of the the National Defence Authorisation Act (NDAA-2018), which approved USD 640 billion in critical defence spending for Fiscal Year 2018.

"This provision encourages the Department of Defence to identify ways that India can play a larger role in providing increased and coordinated defence-related support to Afghanistan, a critical part of overcoming the current "stalemate" in the fight against the Taliban," said a statement issued by office of Senator Sullivan.

'Encourage Increased Role for India in Afghanistan' was one of the 24 amendment moved and passed by the Senate Armed Services Committee. NDAA-18 now moves to the full Senate for consideration.

A similar version of the bill has also been passed by the House Armed Services Committee and has been sent to the House of Representative.

The two different versions of the bill once passed by the House and the Senate would need to be made same by a conference committee of the two chambers before it is finally passed by the Senate and House. After that NDAA-18 would land on the desk of the US President for him to sign it into law.

Such a move by a key Senate panel comes a few days after US President Donald Trump praised India's role in Afghanistan.

Of late there has been a growing desire of the Trump administration for an increased Indian role in Afghanistan.

India is the largest regional contributor to Afghan reconstruction, pledging at least USD 2 billion toward that effort since 2001

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby NRao » 03 Jul 2017 09:37

On China, Modi Won Unexpected Support From Trump

There is a lot to analyse, and possibly over-analyse, about the recent meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and U.S. President Donald Trump. There were some notable surprises, including the strong language used when condemning Pakistan for its refusal to crack down on terrorist groups operating across borders. There were also some welcome signs of continuity, including the United States’ recognition of India as a Major Defense Partner, support for India’s membership to export control regimes and the U.N. Security Council, and commonality of views on Afghanistan’s stability and on cyberspace. New Delhi should be more than satisfied with these broad stated contours for cooperation, which should put to rest some concerns about the Trump administration’s orientation.

Of course, there was also plenty of symbolism: the bear hugs, the warm rhetoric, and the invitation extended to Ivanka Trump for the Global Entrepreneurship Summit in India. There was the high profile participation on the U.S. side, including many senior cabinet officials, two of whom – Secretary of Defense James Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson – called upon Modi separately for private discussions. And there was the occasion itself. U.S. officials told The Washington Post that inviting Modi to a working dinner in the White House was “meant to signal respect.”

But amid all the surprises and continuity, the pomp and personal rapport, two takeaways really stand out from this meeting. One concerns India-U.S. convergence in the Indo-Pacific. This really was the headline from the visit, and underscored the central strategic rationale for the bilateral relationship. While not using the same language, perhaps too closely associated now with the Barack Obama administration, the meeting reflected an effective continuation of the Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region, which was agreed in January 2015. The latest statement encompasses common principles concerning the freedom of navigation, overflight, and commerce, and the peaceful resolution of disputes in the region. Indian Ocean security – whether U.S. involvement in the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium or the centrality of the Malabar naval exercises – features prominently. The U.S. offer to sell Sea Guardian unarmed drones could mark a major contribution to India’s ability to monitor the Indian Ocean, just as India’s earlier acquisition of P-8I maritime surveillance aircraft proved a game-changer.

But what really stands out in the joint statement is a passage on regional economic connectivity. It outlines a set of principles, specifically that such connectivity should be based on “the transparent development of infrastructure and the use of responsible debt financing practices, while ensuring respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity, the rule of law, and the environment.” These principles closely reflect India’s prior statement of May 13 concerning its refusal to participate in the Belt and Road Forum in Beijing. Some Indian commentators felt that India was being “isolated” when it opted to boycott the Forum, a major diplomatic initiative of the Chinese government. But the U.S. endorsement of principles first articulated by India, coupled with similar concerns described separately by the European Union and Japan, has put India in the unusual position of being a normative leader when it comes to regional connectivity, an increasingly important arena of international competition. The challenge, moving forward, is how India can further articulate, promote, and enforce such norms in its extended neighbourhood and beyond.

If strategic considerations witnessed a remarkable degree of confluence, bilateral issues still reflect some differences between Trump’s America and Modi’s India. Beyond the broad principles of free trade, open markets, and converging values, these issues were notable for their absence in the terse joint statement. In many ways, this reflects the changed political dynamics of the United States under Trump. The two sides gave a nod to more balanced trade and reintroduced “clean coal” to the energy cooperation portfolio. Standing together in the Rose Garden, Trump also highlighted the two leaders’ shared domestic objectives of economic growth, infrastructure spending, anti-corruption efforts, and tax reform, while Modi paid lip service to Trump’s motto: “Make America Great Again.” Many traditional agenda items that had focused on India’s transformation – from women’s empowerment and climate change to smart cities and educational initiatives – were also conspicuously absent. Some prior strategic projects, including the Defence Technology and Trade Initiative and the aircraft carrier technology working group, also did not feature, being either politically tainted by their association with a previous administration or appearing too one-sided for the White House’s current incumbents.

A day after Modi left Washington, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence offered a clearer articulation of his administration’s approach to bilateral business relations with India in a speech to the U.S.-India Business Council. While clearly stating Trump’s economic priorities, he reinforced the message that “our two great nations [the United States and India] are bound…by commerce.” Noting that U.S. exports to India support roughly 200,000 jobs, he highlighted civil aviation, energy, and defence as three sectors in which business with India is a boon for the American economy. Perhaps this goes to sow that although a panoply of bilateral issues went unaddressed at Modi’s first meeting with Trump, some ways might still be found to make ‘America First’ compatible with India’s transformation.


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