India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Tanaji
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Tanaji »

Is CT a Democrat held state?

I cant believe Khalistanis have more influence than PIOs in US. We have been constantly been told that the Khalistanis are a small but vocal minority. So how come they punch above their weight and influence in US?
m_saini
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by m_saini »

Tanaji wrote:.. So how come they punch above their weight and influence in US?
As always imo, it's because that's how US wants it.

If US didn't want ropers or khalis to have the sort of influence that they do, we would see them getting the same sort of treatment by their media that's reserved for Hindus.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

Tanaji wrote:Is CT a Democrat held state?

I cant believe Khalistanis have more influence than PIOs in US. We have been constantly been told that the Khalistanis are a small but vocal minority. So how come they punch above their weight and influence in US?
Money.

Nearly all Hindu PIOs have to work for a living, as professionals or businesspeople. They have never stuck their necks out because of the implications of taking a public & controversial political stance for their careers. That is now doubly worse in the era of wokeness & cancel culture.

For the Khalistanis that's not anywhere near as much of an issue.

1) The Khalistani Sikhs here are mostly land-owning Jat Sikhs who have loads of family money (as absentee owners of agricultural land in Punjab/Yuba/Alberta, and as recipients of Indian government largesse to 'farmers' besides). Their wealth comes from farming in India (and also in the US and Canada)... so their "careers" are relatively untouchable.

A PIO doctor/lawyer, businessman, or software guy can find himself the target of a social media boycott that gets him fired, wrecks his practice, etc. What can happen to a farmer, especially if his lands are far away? Nothing, without government agency action.

2) On top of that, ISI funding, NGO funding, and funding from Islamist allies (like CAIR/ICNA and their overseas backers).

When you don't have to worry about mortgage or kids' college expenses you can do pretty much anything you like in terms of political activism.
Last edited by Rudradev on 02 May 2022 00:35, edited 1 time in total.
NRao
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by NRao »

Cyrano wrote:WTF ?

One of many results of the jabbing match between Blinken and Jaishankar, which came out in the open in the press conf after the 2+2 in DC

Blinken-Nuland are betting that India will not flip to the China-Russia axis and is therefore stuck with the US and as a result has to cave in into Blinken's wishes.

They have their man Kejri in the Punjab.

I think it will get a lot more worse for India.

Today there was a report that Nuland visited Mexico and got a statement out of them. Prior to that she met with "thought leasers" from Brazil and India.

I would think Modi has gamed this situation.

Logic and rule based systems are breaking faster than one expected.

Modi-Macron meeting would be interesting. What happens within NATO itself will be even more interesting.

No matter what Indo-US relations, under this admin, will become worse. Just the nature of the Blinken-Nuland beast
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

A lot of shadow punches are being thrown recently-- USCIRF, Connecticut legislature. These are like big, vicious dogs, barking and growling while pulling at the ends of their leashes.

Blinken-Nuland are showing us that they hold the leashes in their hands, so we better do what they want.

Intimidation tactic. "You won't like it if we go back to being the US of 1993 & Robin Raphel." Modi needs to stand firm and call every bluff.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Agree, but I also think US is pulling it's punches a bit too soon, out of frustration. At this rate they won't have many surprises left for 2024, which is a good thing.
This administration is incapable of looking very far right now. Every thing is ultra-short term. Be in sanctions or arms supply to Ukraine or anything else.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chanakyaa »

This is not the first time...

To @Rudradev's point, boots on the ground is what drives the local politicians.

One from 2018
Connecticut State Capitol Commemorates Sikh Genocide Remembrance Day

The person responsible for this stunt is same guy in all such stunts which came out in the past, strong Democratic supporter and likely to be a elected official in the state
Swaranjit Singh Khalsa, President of Sikh Sewak Society International (USA) and member of the World Sikh Parliament said, “Despite interference and false representation by the Indian Consulate to Connecticut State Governor, State Senators, and other elected officials were present during the commemoration of the 34th anniversary of the Sikh Genocide. I respect the fact that our elected officials understand the pain of the Sikh Community and stand in solidarity with the Sikh Nation.”
Swaranjit Singh Khalsa makes history in Norwich
Norwich — Swaranjit Singh Khalsa, a Democratic Board of Education member who was the second highest vote-getter for the City Council in Tuesday's election, said he is slated to be the first Sikh elected official on a City Council in Connecticut.

"Voters of Norwich made history," he said.

Singh Khalsa, 36, who runs small businesses in Norwich where he lives with his wife and daughter, said the election speaks volumes that voters are acknowledging all the work he has been doing on the Board of Education and for equity and cultural awareness.
Remember Kshama Sawant of Seattle City council?

And, very well connected
https://www.fbi.gov/about/community-out ... ngh-khalsa

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRpiwifXoAA ... name=large
Image
Last edited by chanakyaa on 02 May 2022 01:15, edited 1 time in total.
NRao
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by NRao »

My sense is that we will get to know where Blinken-Nuland are in a month or two (fall of Odesa and perhaps all of S. UKR). That should dictate not just the Indo-US relations, but the relation between many nations - with both India and the US.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by bala »

The US has China effectively under their control - 3T China investment in US and the larger ownership investment of US based deep state into China, all the factories are US deep state owned churning products for their consumption leveraging labor arbitrage. China Russia axis has the attendant Russia - India relationship. The China-Russia system is purely economics and China wanting to appear independent of the US. If given chance, China wants to be on top of US but the economic relationship is still inter-dependence. Russia and India are kinda of the oddballs that are not under US tentacles as far as its foreign policy, independence of action, military might and more worrying is its intellectual clout - the combined brain power probably exceeds those of US/China. Quad is really a waste of effort/time for India and a redirect orchestrated by the US. The US Deep state has multiple ways of distracting, redirecting, faking and much more. The end goal is a ruthless pursuit of world dominance.

Russia Ukr tussle is a pivot moment in World history. If Russia prevails over Ukr or at least takes away a substantial portion of Ukr then things according to the old world order is going to change significantly. The multi-polar world has a chance at asserting itself rather than the current circle the drain of the US deep state.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

Just a correction. Most of the money is not from farming. Either in Alberta (actually British Columbia) or India. It is not a lot of money. The most dangerous development for Khalistan would be Tesla and autonomous driving vehicles. Trucking is filled with Jat Sikhs. It is not particularly easy, just low skilled. Most of them are just hard working dudes who don’t want trouble.

There is a fair amount of drug money and now prostitution. Also various small time scams, insurance frauds, construction cheats. I know jats who won’t hire jats for house renovations. Sad. Leaders mostly come from people who will not get a visa in India, who don’t have benami property in India. That is a big vulnerability.

As in Britain, Sikhs and Muslims are similar in economic and educational demographics with the important exception of Sikhs permitting their women to work and Muslims ruling it haram.

Sikhs also use these political connections as pressure points. I don’t think they really want a Khalistan. Although Khalistan would not be a bad idea. Just not carved from India. Pakistan will genocide them before accommodating them. Perhaps Afghanistan can host the reprise of the glorious Sikh empire.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Najunamar »

Cyrano wrote:Agree, but I also think US is pulling it's punches a bit too soon, out of frustration. At this rate they won't have many surprises left for 2024, which is a good thing.
This administration is incapable of looking very far right now. Every thing is ultra-short term. Be in sanctions or arms supply to Ukraine or anything else.
Methinks it is because they are staring at the wrong end of a gun barrel when it comes to this year's mid-term which probably will make Obama's shellacking seem a walk in the park. So they are forced to reveal their hand as they'll never be in the same position (will be much weaker domestically if not chucked out of power) of strength.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vmalik »

Biggest problem remains the sizeable number of Sikhs in the Indian Army. Until Namo et al address that issue, Bharat has to suffer these needling tactics.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ks_sachin »

vmalik wrote:Biggest problem remains the sizeable number of Sikhs in the Indian Army. Until Namo et al address that issue, Bharat has to suffer these needling tactics.
How is this an issue?
Good troops these.

Plus do you take exception to all Sikhs as even between the Punjab, Sikh and Sikhli there is a distinction in the lineage of the troops?

Just curious.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

Gravitas: Pakistan's political drama goes global

Pakistan's political slugfest has gone global. In Medina, the Shehbaz delegation was heckled by pilgrims with chants of 'thieves, traitors & turncoats'. In retaliation, PML-N supporters thrashed PTI's Qasim Khan Suri in Islamabad. Palki Sharma reports on the drama.
Gautam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Aditya_V »

I think many here are falling for propaganda here .If Sikhs have to survive in USA, Canada , UK. They have to perform as thier Government of that land says and they are doing.

Since many of the anti Sikh comments are coming from residents/ citizens of these very same countries. Perhaps its easier to pile it up on Sikhs rather than admit maybe Governments are up to no good.

Or there is no real concern in some of these posters for strong India. Within India there are millions of good examples which are happily ignored by these posters
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vmalik »

ks_sachin wrote:
vmalik wrote:Biggest problem remains the sizeable number of Sikhs in the Indian Army. Until Namo et al address that issue, Bharat has to suffer these needling tactics.
How is this an issue?
Good troops these.

Plus do you take exception to all Sikhs as even between the Punjab, Sikh and Sikhli there is a distinction in the lineage of the troops?

Just curious.
Risk of mutiny if/when GOI steps in stop the violence in Punjab. And I've stopped caring about any so called dharmic unity. Whatever divisive agenda the Brits planted in late 19th century, has reached the roots of sikhism now. Its words may reflect of a dharmic past but its aesthetics are totally abrahamic now.
Atleast when its come to Bharat, Hindus, being the OG, need to take ownership. Forget taking everybody along, and internalize "my way or the highway".
First step really needs to be to stop with the "Hind ki chaadar" type bs. The more you kiss their behind, the more they cement your cowardly image in their minds and the tougher it is going to be later on to ask them to step back from the ledge without any thing less than 80s type state violence.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

They don’t have any illusions about the meek Hindu.

That is one of the problems. Their self image has been severely and irrevocably compromised. Ego dystonia is not a good thing. All need to face reality.

What is happening in India is that new realities are being established.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Kanoji »

sanjaykumar wrote:
What is happening in India is that new realities are being established.
+1 to that.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Lisa »

Its worthy of note, I think, that there was not one such resolution recognising a united Ireland despite a much larger Irish diaspora in the US.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

State recognition of a separatist movement in a foreign friendly country is a serious matter. CT officials who issued this have overreached, just shows how dumb and For Sale their politicians are. India has no US ambassador to summon and issue a démarche. I'm sure MEA will hit back at the appropriate moment.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

The Indian embassy in the US has officially condemned it in a Tweet of a letter they posted. The embassy stated they are taking up the matter with US government officials.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Haresh »

vmalik wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: How is this an issue?
Good troops these.

Plus do you take exception to all Sikhs as even between the Punjab, Sikh and Sikhli there is a distinction in the lineage of the troops?

Just curious.
Risk of mutiny if/when GOI steps in stop the violence in Punjab. And I've stopped caring about any so called dharmic unity.
khalistan is a jat movement, bare in mind that something like 30 % of the pop of Punjab is Ravidassi/Dalit and it is the Jats who are their main oppressors.
If you are worried about the Jat Sikh troops loyalties, then just recruit more from the dalit Ravidassi community. Same with Police officers.

I have been to Canada 9 times and this rivalry is present there as well. The Jats basically try to bullly and coerce the other castes. There is no support for khalistan amongst the Ramgaria and Ravidass castes.
The situation is so bad that the Jats actually try to infiltrate the Gurudwaras of others castes and then try to take them over. It actually leads to serious violence. All the drug gangs are Jats, remember the "Punjabi Mafia" it's shocking if you google those words.

All that the Indian govt and Hindu community needs to do to counter these khalistani's is reach out to the Ramgaria and Ravidassia communities.
ks_sachin
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ks_sachin »

vmalik wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: How is this an issue?
Good troops these.

Plus do you take exception to all Sikhs as even between the Punjab, Sikh and Sikhli there is a distinction in the lineage of the troops?

Just curious.
Risk of mutiny if/when GOI steps in stop the violence in Punjab. And I've stopped caring about any so called dharmic unity. Whatever divisive agenda the Brits planted in late 19th century, has reached the roots of sikhism now. Its words may reflect of a dharmic past but its aesthetics are totally abrahamic now.
Atleast when its come to Bharat, Hindus, being the OG, need to take ownership. Forget taking everybody along, and internalize "my way or the highway".
First step really needs to be to stop with the "Hind ki chaadar" type bs. The more you kiss their behind, the more they cement your cowardly image in their minds and the tougher it is going to be later on to ask them to step back from the ledge without any thing less than 80s type state violence.
Interesting.
I presume you have gone through the details of the mutiny after Op Bluestar.

Anyhow, I am not an expert on this Hindu dharmic thingumajig. Any pretensions to that are long gone in my view. I don't even know if most people know what dharmic means anymore leave along live it. Just back from India so perhaps that colours my perception.

I do agree though that the govt has to be stronger but I do reflect on what kind of society I want to live in and it is an evolving view.
Aditya_V
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Aditya_V »

Cyrano wrote:State recognition of a separatist movement in a foreign friendly country is a serious matter. CT officials who issued this have overreached, just shows how dumb and For Sale their politicians are. India has no US ambassador to summon and issue a démarche. I'm sure MEA will hit back at the appropriate moment.
Funny, how this word dumb is thrown about, these countries are not "dumb". Remember a sikh couple harrassed in Germany for doing some innocuous work for GOI and being called out as "RAW" spies.

Perhaps it is the deep states who are driving it and cultivating the Khalistanis and not the other way round. Something too difficult to digest. If the Sikhs oppose the Khalistanis, the Govts come at them so most probably keep quiet and play along, many are just recent for 1 generation immigrants.

That is why the Khalistanis get soo much traction in UK, EU, Canada, Australia, Massa etc. I don't these guys can survive in these countries without Govt patronage by the host countries.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

It's very simple. India is the long term threat/strategic competitor to the US/US-led western order. So the latter will do everything they can to keep us off balance. Delay, disable and disintegrate is definitely part of the approach, among other things. We (the country at large) tend to get swayed by the courting done by the west (see recent diplomatic visits post Ukraine), but that's only one part of the approach. Encouraging khalistan, eelam, conversions and other fissiparous tendencies are par for the course. Given the power differential we have with the west, they'll always find some useful idiots and worse to do their bidding - be it lobbying, or raising funds for referendums or other nonsense. This also provides them with plausible deniability as they can point to their own laws about freedom and democracy and all that, and wring their hands helplessly when we ask them to take action. But this control ensures that these activities stay at a level of pinpricks and not cross a threshold that invites a decisive and robust response from us.

Net net, khalistani propaganda is alive because the host countries want it to be.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

As for some state level politicians in the US, dumb is an appellation I won't give easily as it lets them off the hook - better to assume the worst intention and counter it. Let the USG come and try to convince us of their own dumbness.

But on the positive side, India has shown that it can play this game as well. Recent statements from SJ about hyooman rights in the US, and the sudden ouster (apparent resignation) of that mutt that came to India last month to bark some nonsense shows the game is indeed afoot.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Najunamar »

I dont think we should waste too much energy in reacting now, as the current admin is desperately trying to show some success before the mid-terms when the chickens come to roost - I am indeed eagerly waiting for the drubbing the dhimmis will suffer in November.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

The mistake we (on BRF) do is to conflate US domestic politics with India's foreign policy choices. This latest nonsense out of CT may very well be an outcome of domestic politics and lobbies, but that does not mean we stay silent. It's not our problem if some internal lobby acts with an eye on some mid-term or by-election. SJ had referred to these lobbies during his comments on human rights in the US last month. Such activities go against our interests, so we will call it out and take the appropriate counter action. It's all the more necessary since the USG seems okay with these activities impinging on Indo-US ties; these are not acts one does against friendly countries. So we will take note, and give some appropriate response, and it is up to USG to try to convince us otherwise.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Aditya_V »

Notice in multiple threads, posters pile it on all Sikhs and stereotype the whole community but are very careful in criticizing any Western country. This has been happening across multiple threads for last few years.

Also remember these Western Countries deny Visas to retired BSF/ CRPF staff etc. So it can't be that some of these Gurudwaras etc. are acting independently from Government policy in these countries.

This has been happening for many years now

https://indianexpress.com/article/citie ... ent-force/

SO its more likely the so called "Khalistanis" are acting as per directives issued by Host Country Governments and not the other way around as we are led to believe.

Either they comply and get their rewards, anyone who objects gets the whole Government Eco system on them.

When a person and his family want to migrate and become future citizens due Historical controls of Resources- these Governments have you under the thumb.

Nah- why go into all this, lets bash the whole community.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Najunamar »

A lot of BRFites are losing the art of nuance - Thank God GOI and SJ haven't lost it. When I posted there is not much point wasting energy by reacting NOW no one bothered to look at the qualifiers. We need to pull a surprise shakinaw move in a different front, and I believe that is the MO of this GOI. I never disputed we have to react and strongly at that - how and when should be used for maximum effect (just like how we treat sugarland's wet dreams of salami slicing by attacking them at their weakest point). Anyway, my last as those who have the ability to act well understand this.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Tanaji »

SO its more likely the so called "Khalistanis" are acting as per directives issued by Host Country Governments and not the other way around as we are led to believe
OT so maybe we should take it to the Punjab thread.

But this is too simplistic a statement. One only has to listen to some of the Canadian and UK based Sikhs put out privately to see that at least some of them genuinely believe in what they say. The amount of vitriol they have for India and the amount of derision they have for Hindus is to be seen to be believed. They genuinely try to channel Bhindranwale when they talk on this topic.
This plus, the propensity to believe in the most ludicrous conspiracy theories at the drop of a hat means that all ills of Punjab and Sikhs are laid at the door of Hindu GoI. You cannot reason with these.

To say that these characters are being forced by host governments is a bit much. A good portion of them are doing this of their own free will, primarily because this is what they were fed by their parents since childhood, and the parents never moved on from 1950s-80s when they left India.
Last edited by Tanaji on 04 May 2022 02:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by shravanp »

Aditya_V wrote:Notice in multiple threads, posters pile it on all Sikhs and stereotype the whole community but are very careful in criticizing any Western country. This has been happening across multiple threads for last few years.

Also remember these Western Countries deny Visas to retired BSF/ CRPF staff etc. So it can't be that some of these Gurudwaras etc. are acting independently from Government policy in these countries.
On a similar note, there are rounds doing on teetar that Swara Bhaskar has moved to US. Just supports the idea.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vijayk »

Barbarian Indian @barbarindian

Sometimes I feel Pakistan's playbook did not come from their army leadership, they ain't that sophisticated, but from US strategists. There are striking similarities between how the US democratic party plays and Pakistan's tactical moves.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Atmavik »

for those dhoti shivering abt Connecticut state legislators


https://twitter.com/Cold_Peace_/status/ ... DX4p4qAAAA


Jeff M. Smith
@Cold_Peace_
Local officials sticking their nose in something they don't understand. A few good lobbyists can go a long way in a state legislature. Carries no weight. Not worth losing sleep over.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

shravanp wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Notice in multiple threads, posters pile it on all Sikhs and stereotype the whole community but are very careful in criticizing any Western country. This has been happening across multiple threads for last few years.

Also remember these Western Countries deny Visas to retired BSF/ CRPF staff etc. So it can't be that some of these Gurudwaras etc. are acting independently from Government policy in these countries.
On a similar note, there are rounds doing on teetar that Swara Bhaskar has moved to US. Just supports the idea.
perhaps the moving finger has more value there, no...........
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

The US has a lot of goodwill in India mainly due to a large number of immigrants from all parts of India. At last count, it was 4.5 Million of whom about 1 million are citizens.
The other factor is the vast services industry exports to the US due to back-office operations.
There are a lot of negative things like immigration visa controls, support for and to Pakistan, arming Pakistan, and constant vituperation on social matters.
The good outweighs the bad mostly.
However every time the US interferes in Indian political affairs via toolkit, and US State Department gratuitous support to termagants, the goodwill drops appreciably as the new India is assertive.
This interference in Indian political affairs now does not have strategic purposes as Cold War is over and the US considers India as a partner in QUAD.
In other words, the interference is due to US domestic compulsions of the following types: CAIR type Muslim appeasement, Jaypal type Progressive interference, Xian USCIRF reports.

Its not a good idea to involve in domestic politics as the greater relations become hostage.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

X posted from the ukraine thread


The goras should put this in their pipes and smoke it

Despite demonizing Modi globally, his popularity belies their fondest wishes and beggars their understanding of a resurgent India


Image
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Any leader who espouses a different set of values and world view to the 'west' and doesn't shy from simply being who they are, ie doesn't care for west's approval is intolerable for the west. Be it Putin or Modi.
The western leaders deal with Modi with grudging respect not any real affinity or genuine friendship.

Modi's big smile and bear hug I suspect are intended to make them outwardly reciprocate and inwardly squirm. It's Modi's equivalent of Trump's handshake to assert dominance but it's much more subtle and perplexing for his counterparts who can find nothing to counter it except smile big and hug him back !
KLNMurthy
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KLNMurthy »

Cyrano wrote:Any leader who espouses a different set of values and world view to the 'west' and doesn't shy from simply being who they are, ie doesn't care for west's approval is intolerable for the west. Be it Putin or Modi.
The western leaders deal with Modi with grudging respect not any real affinity or genuine friendship.

Modi's big smile and bear hug I suspect are intended to make them outwardly reciprocate and inwardly squirm. It's Modi's equivalent of Trump's handshake to assert dominance but it's much more subtle and perplexing for his counterparts who can find nothing to counter it except smile big and hug him back !

+1

I can just imagine Modi inwardly chuckling as he hugs these guys. It is a kind of gangster troll move. Added bonus: it makes the “right cutlery” folks at home bleed from their eyes.
ramana
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

Read this Twitter thread on how motivated Indian Americans who have failed in India are driving the narrative at USCRIF etc.

https://twitter.com/vijaygajera/status/ ... 6AG6icNxTA
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