India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Rudradev
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

Jaishankar's visit has not been covered in any great detail by the Indian media. Most of the reports I've seen mention only general platitudes, suggesting that there weren't any breakthrough developments of note.

Jaishankar met Anthony Blinken as well as NSA Jake Sullivan and Def Sec Lloyd Austin. Biden does not seem to have "dropped in" on any of these meetings-- whether that's because of slightly cooling relations in the wake of GOI's action against US tech companies, or because of COVID precautions, or simply because it isn't Biden's style (relative to George W Bush, Obama and Trump) I am not sure.

COVID itself seems to have dominated the agenda in a lot of the discussions. Its value as a biological warfare agent for the CPC is a gift that keeps on giving.

One interesting thing some of the reports mentioned is that Jaishankar had an extended meeting with Gen H R McMaster in New York before his trip to Washington. McMaster was, of course, Trump's NSA for a year before getting fired and replaced by John Bolton. He had visited India during his tenure and I presume he knows the Modi cabinet well. He is currently a fellow of the Hoover Institution (a major national-security and foreign-policy think tank https://www.hoover.org/profiles/h-r-mcmaster). Also, he had extensive experience as a military and intelligence commander in Afghanistan.

About Garcetti, the less said the better. He used to work in the field of international relations before his tenure as Mayor of LA. His resume includes positions that suggest he spent many years as a foot-soldier of the George Soros agenda:
Prior to his election to the Los Angeles City Council, Garcetti was a visiting instructor of international affairs at the University of Southern California, and an assistant professor of diplomacy and world affairs at Occidental College.[5] His academic work focused on ethnic conflict and nationalism in Southeast Asia and Northeast Africa.

During this time, he published articles and chapters of books on post-conflict societies, Eritrean nationalism, and non-violent action. This should concern every Indian. Look up Gene Sharp to understand what is meant by "non-violent action" in this context-- essentially, it's manufacturing Colour Revolutions and deploying Aandolanjeevis to destabilize hostile governments.[23]

He has served on the California board of Human Rights Watch,[24] and currently serves on the advisory board for Young Storytellers, an arts education nonprofit organization based in Los Angeles.[25] Garcetti is a member of the Inter-American Dialogue.
(From Wiki)

If there is any faint glimmer of hope for this guy it is that "Progressives" (i.e. rabid leftists) in Los Angeles are themselves targeting him over police brutality, BLM, ignoring allegations of sexism against his staff members, etc. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ambassador Having been on the receiving end of Woke-jihad, Garcetti may have realized how this sort of thing can spiral out of control and turn on its masters. But on the other hand, he may be twice as anxious to prove himself More Woke Than Woke by doing everything possible to undermine Fascist Mudi.

Let's see.
hnair
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by hnair »

I am more pessimistic on Garcetti behaving in India, due to this very valid comment in that article:
“LA is facing some serious problems, and I think he understands that this isn’t a record that he is going to want for the rest of his career,” said Jessica Levinson, a Loyola law professor. “It is hard to run for higher office when your most recent resume line is mayor of LA. He’s made the calculation that … he has to enter the national or international stage before he comes back home to try [to] move up the political ladder.”
1) He was nixed from a cabinet post due to BLM activists making Biden's transition team jittery. The far-left among Democrats is not going anywhere soon and they will remain a big factor in Garcetti's future. So If he also believes he need a reset and at the same time take along this far-left, nothing like a stint in India, finger-wagging every day at the national government who is closely associated with Trump presidency. It is a perfect reset, where he reformed he savages and made them see the ways of Holy St Marx.

2) An american democratic liberal and an Indian urban-naxal's mindset are in synch about free speech, gubmint intolerance etc, due to universal tool-kits. While the far-left of US can go straight to the bushes with our boondock-naxals and shake the undergrowth, the regular liberal will be at ease with khan-market crowd, where they get lots of ready allies. So this bourbon-naxal from LA and urban-naxal from Delhi will help each other a lot.

1 and 2 when combined, will be painful to deal with on a daily basis for GoI.

In the post-2010 Social Media Earth Nation, all nations and people (except blacks in America) are same and any historic reluctance of the past in giving lectures to old colonies that used to be exploited by white people are gone. Obama and BLM has eradicated India's colonial past and we all better listen to their version of what is civilization.

So Garcetti is not going to be easy on our digestive system, like say Amb Blackwill
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

Cain Marko wrote:In the past week or so two important events took place in the context of this thread and there was no real discussion regarding these...
Garcetti appointed as us ambassador, and
Jaishankar visited the US.

Bhaat eej matter with phorum gurus...
Garcetti - nondescript character given a holiday to an exotic destination. Looks like a less beige version of Richard Verma.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

Has Garcetti's nomination been announced by the administration? Have they publicly said anything, and has madam Psaki stated "we'll circle back to that"?
darshan
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by darshan »

Who calls Xitler the communist?
Modi-Harris phone call: US conveys it will give coronavirus vaccines to India
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/modi ... dia-389273
....
The conversation which took place with India's prime minister on Thursday evening was at the request of US Vice President.
....
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Philip »

Yes,7M vaccines are coming!.....But for the whole of Asia,a pittance! So much for strat. Partnership . When thegoing gets tough, it's India won't get a number that will make a difference.We'll have to wait a little for Sputnik V, 3M to 4M already delivered.Haldane say it will take them 8 months to set up their Covaxin plant and start deliveries! The govt's ambitious plan to vaccinate X no. by Dec. will be way off the mark.

PS: Our poor PM ,of the world's largest democracy had to speak
to the Veep for vaccines not the pres! Would any other western leader accept such a downgraded status? The next time Biden calls,he should be put through to our V.President's no!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by darshhan »

Philip wrote:Yes,7M vaccines are coming!.....But for the whole of Asia,a pittance! So much for strat. Partnership . When thegoing gets tough, it's India won't get a number that will make a difference.We'll have to wait a little for Sputnik V, 3M to 4M already delivered.Haldane say it will take them 8 months to set up their Covaxin plant and start deliveries! The govt's ambitious plan to vaccinate X no. by Dec. will be way off the mark.

PS: Our poor PM ,of the world's largest democracy had to speak
to the Veep for vaccines not the pres! Would any other western leader accept such a downgraded status? The next time Biden calls,he should be put through to our V.President's no!
The problem is on our side. Why are we so dependent on America? A country which is actually a devil in the guise of friend. And which will never rest until it destroys India. China is just our geopolitical enemy but it is US which is our civilizational enemy and determined to reduce our nation to a third world woke shithole.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Philip »

You'ld better ask our venerable FM,former amby to the US and chief "bearer" to the house which is white! Under his era as FM,we have appeased the Chins and XI beyond comprehension, making PM Modi the heir to Nehru for being backstabbed by the "yellow peril",taking our cue from the Yanquis on most policies foreign like Iran-losing out to the Chins in the bargain, being bullied over arms from Ru, who provide us with the best weaponry in our arsenal like S-400s,N-subs,BMos, MKIs,etc., in fact to quote,"with friends like the US,who needs enemies"?

We are now insulted with our PM having to demean himself and plead for vax from the Veep?! How further degrading can we be treated!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

Request to Hindu-Americans and Hindus worldwide:

Support Hirsh Vardhan Singh, Republican candidate for Governor in New Jersey who is leading in the polls. We need guys like this in positions of influence.

https://secure.winred.com/singh-for-governor/donate
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

Rudradev wrote:Request to Hindu-Americans and Hindus worldwide:

Support Hirsh Vardhan Singh, Republican candidate for Governor in New Jersey who is leading in the polls. We need guys like this in positions of influence.

https://secure.winred.com/singh-for-governor/donate
Hope he wins the party primary next Tuesday on June 8th. It will be a tough battle against established party politicians. This is Hirsh Singh's 2nd attempt I think.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by venkat_kv »

Philip wrote:You'ld better ask our venerable FM,former amby to the US and chief "bearer" to the house which is white! Under his era as FM,we have
......
We are now insulted with our PM having to demean himself and plead for vax from the Veep?! How further degrading can we be treated!
Phillip Saar,
You could do well by toning down the criticism of the current FM by reading "The Hindu" and its "chinese cousins" in India. India doesn't need vaccines from the US. What we need is the raw materials for vaccines productions that are banned, until Russia or any other country can provide the same we will need o depend on a variety of countries for manufacturing our vaccines. Or we can take time and try to make the raw materials ourselves, but will covid wait without infecting people till then?

If you read the post above yours, It mentions that the call with the vice-president was initiated from the other side (meaning the US), so why this extra nonsense about begging for vaccines?

did the US beg for Hydrocloriloquine or what ever last year when covid ravaged their fair smooth and tight bottoms. Can you, being a senior poster show some thought when writing down your thoughts -otherwise what is the difference between you and Dhruv Rathee types that are flourishing these days?
Last edited by venkat_kv on 09 Jun 2021 02:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Najunamar »

^+108, Philipji your experience in INS and all things naval is invaluable, please tone down the rhetoric both in this thread and the Lakshadhweepa thread. Those of us who genuinely appreciate the wealth of knowledge you bring are requesting this.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

If you were looking for an open declaration of war by the Liberal Globalist establishment in the US against India, this article pretty much fits the bill:

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... cy/619144/
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Zynda »

Articles like the above are among many that will be appearing before 2024 to lay the groundwork to challenge validity of 2024 elections if BJP/NaMo continues to win. If the results are otherwise, a series of articles will follow on how Indians "woke up" and brought positive change through the same democratic mechanisms etc and the world can breathe easy again.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Rudradev wrote:If you were looking for an open declaration of war by the Liberal Globalist establishment in the US against India, this article pretty much fits the bill:

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... cy/619144/
From this Wikipedia page Jonah Blank I qoute:
Blank studied history at Yale University, and worked as the financial editor of the largest English language newspaper of Japan, where he first immersed in an Asian culture. He later completed graduate studies in anthropology at Harvard (where he won the David L. Boren Fellowship, which provided funds for research outside the United States), and wrote his first book, Arrow of the Blue-Skinned God: Retracing the Ramayana through India in the same period.

Blank has traveled extensively across India and Pakistan, and learned the ancient language of Sanskrit (me: really? We need to see if this fellow knows any samskrutam at al), as well as the languages Hindi, Gujarati (me: His knowledge of these two languages should be easy to check) and Urdu. He has also extensive knowledge and experience of the traditions and teachings of Hinduism, Islam and other religions in Asia.

Blank used the Boren Fellowship to work with the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community, primarily based in the Indian city of Bombay. He was the first anthropologist to work with this usually conservative community, publishing his work in Mullahs on the Mainframe. In Jonah Blank's important, myth-shattering book, the West gets its first look at the Daudi Bohras, a unique Muslim denomination who have found the core of their religious beliefs largely compatible with modern ideology. Combining orthodox Muslim prayer, dress, and practice with secular education, relative gender equality, and Internet use (me: :roll: ), this community serves as a surprising reminder that the central values of "modernity" are hardly limited to the west.
He has other articles in The Atlantic which are mostly negative on India.

Two older articles are linked below.

India Just Put Democracy at Risk Across South Asia
How Hinduism Became a Political Weapon in India

(Admins: Should this comment go into Social Media Watch thread? If so, please move)
Vayutuvan
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

More about this guy from way back machine here.

Jonah Blank: Mullahs on the Mainframe in India
Jonah Blank was relaxing with a friend when a breaking news report on CNN about major events in former Yugoslavia interrupted their conversation. Jonah would be heading back to the office to file a story for the magazine where he worked. He suspected that his efforts would be little noted and less appreciated. Meanwhile, his friend would be rushing to join colleagues on a Senate committee with responsibility for assessing the latest turn of events and laying out policy alternatives.

Jonah was more than just envious; he decided that his friend's work offered more career satisfaction than his own. That moment began a new chapter in Jonah's already varied life.
hnair
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by hnair »

Does anyone remember a similar dude with his fifteen minutes of fame called Alex Perry, who spread propaganda against PM Vajpayee via Times? I just looked him up and his greatest achievement yet is “almost deported from India”. Why even give them such high points?

Ignoring does work wonders for these guys who sound like an AI written article against a sitting PM.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

hnair wrote:Ignoring does work wonders for these guys who sound like an AI written article against a sitting PM.
The Atlantic is a very old and influential rag, for starters.

This guy was (I quote Wikipedia)
Blank earned a PhD in 1998 from Harvard University, and joined the staff of U.S. News and World Report, as well as writing for The New Yorker and Foreign Affairs. But Blank decided to leave the magazine to work actively to influence the foreign policy of the U.S. government on Near Eastern affairs, becoming the policy advisor on South Asia/Near East policy to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations.

He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He currently works as a Senior Political Scientist at the RAND Corporation.
I don't think this guy is 'nother Alex Perry.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

For reference

United_States_Senate_Committee_on_Foreign_Relations
The United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations is a standing committee of the U.S. Senate charged with leading foreign-policy legislation and debate in the Senate. It is generally responsible for overseeing and funding foreign aid programs; funding arms sales and training :shock: for national allies; and holding confirmation hearings for high-level positions in the Department of State.[1] Its sister committee in the House of Representatives is the Committee on Foreign Affairs.
Jonah Blank fellow was also at CFR.

CFR
The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), founded in 1921, is a United States nonprofit think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy and international affairs. It is headquartered in New York City, with an additional office in Washington, D.C. Its membership, which numbers 5,103, has included senior politicians, more than a dozen secretaries of state,[citation needed] CIA directors, bankers, lawyers, professors, and senior media figures.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

You know, times really have changed.

Back in the Kargil era, for example, there was at least a pretence of evenhandedness. When WaPo or NYTimes published a negative article about India (and there were many-- remember Pamela Constable, Barbara Crossette, Eric Margolis?) they would usually allow space for at least a pro-forma rebuttal from the Indian Embassy, especially if the article was really egregious in its attacks.

True, the rebuttals were full of mealy-mouthed Babu language copied and pasted from "Competition Success Review" by some junior press attache. But at a bare minimum-- and this is critical-- opportunity was given to object especially when ISPR's version of reality was the basis for the offending article. To some extent, at least, facts mattered.

This was the era of Alex Perry.

Now things are completely different. The jihadis themselves are in the editorial boards of American news outlets (just as they managed to infiltrate the BBC et al a couple of decades ago). The Opinions editor of NY Times is Basharat Peer, a rabid Kashmiri Islamic supremacist who has absolute power over anything beyond the hard news pages of NYT. The South Asia desk of NPR was helmed by one Furqan Khan-- a woman given so much latitude to purvey her poison that she felt comfortable making a "cow-dung worshipping Hindus" jibe on Twitter.

While in the Vajpayee and Manmohan eras there was at least a pretense of integrity in Western media, now the very definition of "integrity" has been altered to reflect jihadi morality.

Back then, things were still skewed against India: Western writers (Margolis, Crossette) would craft a hit-piece against India on Kashmir, some bumbling MEA fool would give a starched and stuffy response, and finally an Uneven Cohen type would step in as the "neutral arbiter" and "voice of good sense", presenting what was supposed to be a "balanced" but still ultimately pro-Pakistan viewpoint as the final word on the matter.

Today India doesn't have a right to respond, and the assumption is that it SHOULD NOT have any right to respond. Modi is evil and Fascist. Hindu India is evil and Fascist for voting an evil Fascist into national leadership (twice). Would you as a "news media" editor give Hitler a right to respond? If you would, then you are an evil Fascist too and should be canceled. India, of course, was canceled shortly after 2014.

Meanwhile Islam is always the victim. Islam never commits violence unless it is desperate and has no choice, therefore no violence committed in the name of Islam should ever be condemned or questioned. If you condemn or question it you are an Islamophobe and you deserve to be canceled.

The end product of this state of affairs is that China-funded Paki-sanctioned voices: Michael Kugelman at the Wilson Center, Jonah Blank at CFR, get to write whatever the hell they want about India and Modi. Native informants like Aatish Tasseer, Mira Kamdar, and the vile Vidya Krishnan (a "health and science" reporter for The Wire who didn't know the difference between RT-PCR and Antibody testing) are waiting in the wings to provide a Brown tincture to the White hectoring.

And this is finding its way into not just the far-left bastions of Woke media (Vox, Daily Beast, Slate etc.) but into mainstream, centrist-Democrat publications like The Atlantic.

Some of us pro-India folks buy into a stupid, short-sighted explanation for all of this: that the WHOLE Democratic party is now basically a far-left bastion. This is not true as anyone even cursorily following current developments in US politics can see. There are major tensions between the Centrist Democrats and the Far-Left Democrats on a whole spectrum of policy issues.

But one thing that is seeping from the Far-Left Democrat mindset into the Centrist Democrat mindset is the view of Modi's India. It's going mainstream, and nothing is being done to confront or oppose it.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Ambar »

The times we live in it doesnt surprise me the far left faction in the US is now firmly in control of setting the narrative . What surprises me though is the rapid political and societal transformation of a relatively conservative country to an increasingly far left liberal one in less than a decade. Western Europe went so far to the left that they have tipped over but their journey took almost 5 decades from the bra burning feminists to where they are today. US however seems to have covered that journey in just under a decade. Atleast security wise US is safe for a while because despite its increasingly European like open border policies most migrants from latin america are economic migrants and immigrants from Asia are usually high skilled immigrants. Europe on the other hand is a lost cause where a dangerous combination of egalitarian dreaming liberals, aging population, falling birth rates among natives, open borders and global jihadis are all coming together to form a explosive concoction.

As for US' changing policy towards India, it should be clear by now about its intentions after naming someone like Eric Garcetti as its new ambassador to India.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by m_saini »

Noob question: what does the growing far left control of US means for India in real world? Suraj saar posted in economic forum of the growing foreign reserves, now at $600 billion. Would we see reduction there cause the woke SJWs in US won't invest in fascist Mudi regime anymore?

If not, then what does it matter what the Islamists in US media outlets think?
Take a look at what they think of BLM protests:

[Harvard]Black Lives Matter Protesters Were Overwhelmingly Peaceful, Our Research Finds
Same Article
[WaPo]This summer’s Black Lives Matter protesters were overwhelmingly peaceful, our research finds
Police and counterprotesters sometimes started violence.

The Black Lives Matter uprisings were remarkably nonviolent. When there was violence, very often police or counterprotesters were reportedly directing it at the protesters.
When the Department of Homeland Security released its Homeland Threat Assessment earlier this month, it emphasized that self-proclaimed white supremacist groups are the most dangerous threat to U.S. security. But the report misleadingly added that there had been “over 100 days of violence and destruction in our cities,” referring to the anti-racism uprisings of this past summer.

In fact, the Black Lives Matter uprisings were remarkably nonviolent. When there was violence, very often police or counterprotesters were reportedly directing it at the protesters.
They're even correcting the "misleading" report of their own DHS.

Imo it's just hot air with no real world consequences and like hnair saar said, ignoring them seems to be the way to go.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

To reiterate: there is a huge difference between growing far-left control of US media and academia (happening) and growing far-left control of the US (not happening).

Yes, the media and academia are important in terms of overall power, being the chief engines of discourse production, and also they amplify the far-left's power to influence things far beyond their actual numbers. But they do not equate to being in control of the United States, not by a long shot.

There are many countervailing factors. Even as the mainstream US media has gone all-out woke and abandoned any pretence of political neutrality, public trust/confidence in the mainstream US media has declined to virtually nothing (outside the woke echo-chamber). And controlling the narrative on the global stage/among the elite class does not translate into monopolizing the narrative within the US (otherwise, 74 million people would not have voted for Donald Trump).

The truth is, all the Democrats understand (even if they never admit) that only Joe Biden could have managed to beat Trump. None of the other candidates, the so-called "progressives", even had a chance. People don't want to have anything to do with them. The common American doesn't want to be associated with Ilhan Omar and AOC any more than he/she wants to be associated with white supremacists like Richard Spencer or David Duke on the other extreme.

This dynamic (of general public opinion not trusting the mainstream media narrative) applies across a whole cross-section of economic, cultural, and social issues pertaining to the US domestic political scene. It also applies to *SOME* foreign-policy issues which are top-of-mind for the general public, including Israel/Palestine and (increasingly so after COVID) China.

However, US-India Relations are a special case. Here, there is little if any interest from the general public at all. Americans by and large are indifferent to India. So the opinions that matter in terms of formulating US-India policy are the opinions of the elites, and only the elites. Joe Public doesn't care one way or another.

And this is where the real danger (for India) lies. The far-left does not control the entire narrative for all American people but it DOES control the narrative bought into by the policy-making elite. This means that the entire generation of think-tankers, government servants etc. hatching out of Master's programmes in American Universities now... the ones who WILL be in charge of the US in 20-odd years... are emerging with the Basharat Peer/Rana Ayyub/Arundhati Roy version of India drilled into their heads.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Ambar »

Those who did vote for Joe Biden thinking he is more of a centrist have been left surprised how far left he is willing to lean. Frankly it shouldn't come as a surprise considering how he claims to be "transitionary", so he has nothing really to lose. AOC/Rashida/Ayanna Presssley etc are no longer the "fringe" but increasingly moving to the middle with their vocal supporters. The criticism and hostility Israel faced last month and subsequent rushing of Antony Blinken to Gaza with a fat check shows what we thought were the fringe are actively influencing both domestic and foreign policy. With the current confusion and distrust in every action US takes both at home and abroad, it is only a matter of time before China begins flexing its political muscle and actively engages in world diplomacy .
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by m_saini »

Rudradev wrote:To reiterate: there is a huge difference between growing far-left control of US media and academia (happening) and growing far-left control of the US (not happening).

... This means that the entire generation of think-tankers, government servants etc. hatching out of Master's programmes in American Universities now... the ones who WILL be in charge of the US in 20-odd years... are emerging with the Basharat Peer/Rana Ayyub/Arundhati Roy version of India drilled into their heads.
Point well taken. I couldn't quite articulate it well enough but this is what I meant. The far left has been growing in US media and academia for the past 10-15 years but they don't matter in real world for now. The US, and it's foreign policy, has always been like this especially considering how Modi was targeted for 2002 (when the lefties weren't as prominent).

In 20 years India would be a lot different than it is today, as would US and the world. If their future think-tankers and public servants do grow up with the far left influence, then they will eat their own country far sooner than India of 2041. Would actually love to see it happen.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by arshyam »

The way to approach this issue is by investing in *our* graduates being more self-aware and confident about our own country. We have to keep focussing on growing the economy and own the narrative that's being put out about us. I don't mean influencing NYT or WaPo, but invest in our own media outlets and help them go global. Same for SM platforms where possible. The point is to have our own narrative, and keep pushing it out through all possible outlets. Of course, back it by genuine work on the ground (economic growth) so it is not just propaganda. This would help our graduates have a good sense of self-worth when they step out into the real world and would have a better foundation to protect our interests.

Strengthening our capabilities would give us a strong footing to deal with these wokists when they come to power/influence parts of US (and other countries') governance like foreign policy. The problem though is, our graduates currently are also being trained to be woke, which does not bode well for us.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vikramb »

If we go by the writings of the American academia and media, then we can observe an unremitting hostility to India and Hinduism in particular that was there much before independence.

The narrative about India was negative even during the time of PM Nehru, an Anglophile liberal.

My view is that the Islamists and wokes who have recently risen to prominence are actually not in setting the agenda. Rather, it is the American establishment that is using their shoulders to fire at PM Modi and India
AshishA
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by AshishA »

arshyam wrote:The way to approach this issue is by investing in *our* graduates being more self-aware and confident about our own country. We have to keep focussing on growing the economy and own the narrative that's being put out about us. I don't mean influencing NYT or WaPo, but invest in our own media outlets and help them go global. Same for SM platforms where possible. The point is to have our own narrative, and keep pushing it out through all possible outlets. Of course, back it by genuine work on the ground (economic growth) so it is not just propaganda. This would help our graduates have a good sense of self-worth when they step out into the real world and would have a better foundation to protect our interests.

Strengthening our capabilities would give us a strong footing to deal with these wokists when they come to power/influence parts of US (and other countries') governance like foreign policy. The problem though is, our graduates currently are also being trained to be woke, which does not bode well for us.
True. I am one of the recent graduates. Tbh this aping the Americans curriculum is rampant in arts colleges. But slowly its making its way into engineering colleges and science colleges too. I believe unless we enforce dictatorial measures and win the ongoing brainwashing campaign unleashed by commies, American leftists and congis since independence we would become the client state of US soon. Atleast in mind. China for all it's faults, has mitigated the problem. Their paranoia about western powers has helped them. Their measures has been appropriate.

The Chinese graduates studying in USA or western nations come across the same wokeism that Indian grads do during their study in USA. But they become fiercely protective of CCP and don't buy into wokeism. Indians do the opposite. They try to fit in and earn the white man's approval. We need to make independent minded individuals who can think for themselves and not accept whatever white man says they are.

I am hopeful though. Recent generation due to the internet might be like the test team that won the gabba. But it needs the guidance of rahul dravid (aka govt) to realize their true potential.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by darshan »

AshishA wrote: The Chinese graduates studying in USA or western nations come across the same wokeism that Indian grads do during their study in USA. But they become fiercely protective of CCP and don't buy into wokeism. Indians do the opposite. They try to fit in and earn the white man's approval. We need to make independent minded individuals who can think for themselves and not accept whatever white man says they are.
Simple answer. Indians are grown to be woke and Chinese aren't. Chinese are grown to compete with the world as target in mind while Indians are grown to head to US. Let me know if Indians are even grown to aveng colonial white man or Muslim invaders as a civilizational goal. India vs Bharat. No goals no achievements.
sanjaykumar
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

The only goal of 99% of Chinese is to move to a white country.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

vikramb wrote:If we go by the writings of the American academia and media, then we can observe an unremitting hostility to India and Hinduism in particular that was there much before independence.

The narrative about India was negative even during the time of PM Nehru, an Anglophile liberal.

My view is that the Islamists and wokes who have recently risen to prominence are actually not in setting the agenda. Rather, it is the American establishment that is using their shoulders to fire at PM Modi and India
I think this is exactly right. Woke-ism is just another "roopam" of the entrenched Hinduphobia that has been there ever since Katherine Mayo at least. If you waste energy and outrage on fighting against the Woke "roopam" you are exhausting yourself against a phantom enemy.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sudarshan »

darshan wrote: Simple answer. Indians are grown to be woke and Chinese aren't. Chinese are grown to compete with the world as target in mind while Indians are grown to head to US. Let me know if Indians are even grown to aveng colonial white man or Muslim invaders as a civilizational goal. India vs Bharat. No goals no achievements.
What is it with this penchant for simple answers based on sweeping generalizations? Chinese aren't woke - LOL! And grown to compete with the world?

It pays to keep this in mind. For every complex problem, there is an answer or solution which is simple, elegant, appealing - and completely wrong.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

Rony Ji: thank you for posting that GOLDMINE of info (Carnegie Survey).

Some nuggets of immediate interest-


Nugget 1: Indian American Democrats are MORE INTOLERANT of Indian American Republicans, than Indian American Republicans are of Indian American Democrats. This is AGAINST the overall trend for all Americans (typically Republicans are more intolerant of Democrats than vice versa, in terms of seeing Dems as "the enemy" etc.)

Nugget 2: Indian American INC Supporters are MORE INTOLERANT of Indian American BJP Supporters, than Indian American BJP Supporters are of Indian American INC Supporters.

More Intolerant = "not comfortable being friends with" or interacting socially with.
vikramb
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vikramb »

The American establishment seems to be conflicted between two contradictory goals.

While their hostility to the BJP was always thinly disguised, there is an unprecedented urgency to topple the Modi government especially after the revocation of Article 370, Ram Janmabhoomi case and CAA. The COVID second wave was used to the hilt to tank the government's popularity. A Modi victory in 2024 will in all probability unalterably change the political landscape of India. And they cannot afford that.

On the other hand, the Russia China axis is challenging the West. The geopolitical sutuation is reminiscent of 1961. Only Pakistan has no utility in containing Russia after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

In the subcontinent, it is only India that can help the West. Hence, India is the lynchpin of the Indo Pacific strategy.

The requirement of the West for an Indian buy in for their strategy prevents them for overtly acting against our government. However, the West fully intends to use other non governmental instruments to attack and diminish India and destroy our soft power.

The S-400 purchase makes sense from this perspective for it prevents an integration with the Western alliance. In the absence of such integration, we always have the freedom to determine our level of engagement with the Western containment strategy. And this gives us leverage, for without India, the West cannot contain either Russia or China.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

sanjaykumar wrote:The only goal of 99% of Chinese is to move to a white country.
they are white. or do you mean Caucasian country? Then they can move to India.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 14 Jun 2021 06:23, edited 1 time in total.
sanjaykumar
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

Chinese are white?

You should ask the average joe. Or the American census bureau.

Even for pale Chinese, I have had white folk explain how their pallor is not the same as white skin.
SRajesh
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by SRajesh »

sanjaykumar wrote:Chinese are white?

You should ask the average joe. Or the American census bureau.

Even for pale Chinese, I have had white folk explain how their pallor is not the same as white skin.
Sir
They use Colour and Roler, especially Protestantism like the Desi folks using Caste.
Take the desi political/power equation
People migrate from desi can carry the same power equations so caste equations are not surprising
And another thing I notice is the :
Traditional Cong stronghold: Jats/Khatris in the Northwest, Patidars in Gujrat, Rajputs in Rajasthan, Patil in Maharashtra, Gowda/Reddy Lingayat in Kar, Reddy/Kamma.s in AP, Thakurs in Madhya Bharat
BJP: Brahmins/Baniyas/BC with the SC/ST and Tribal's slowly moving away from Cong.
And as a General rule the same equations are carried over in US with Cong supporters=Democrats, and more often BJP=Republicans
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

vikramb wrote:The American establishment seems to be conflicted between two contradictory goals.

While their hostility to the BJP was always thinly disguised, there is an unprecedented urgency to topple the Modi government especially after the revocation of Article 370, Ram Janmabhoomi case and CAA. The COVID second wave was used to the hilt to tank the government's popularity. A Modi victory in 2024 will in all probability unalterably change the political landscape of India. And they cannot afford that.
It is easy to understand the Anglo-Saxon mindset., they strongly resent any strong powers arising anywhere else in the world., be it China, India (Modi), Russia (Putin), Iraq (Saddam),Libya(Gaddafi),Turkey(Erdogan) etc ., all their "friends" are weakened politicians in likewise countries . Interestingly everyone of them were "friends of the US" once., till they realised what it actually means !..Tales of treachery ?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

sanjaykumar wrote:Chinese are white?
You should ask the average joe. Or the American census bureau.
Even for pale Chinese, I have had white folk explain how their pallor is not the same as white skin.
During the Apartheid era, the Japanese were considered "White" in South Africa. The Chinese were given an "honorary" white status. These two groups were placed above the Indians, who in turn were above the mixed race and the black population.
Gautam
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