India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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srikandan
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by srikandan »

How nice, a state visit to a country that would imprison modiji otherwise on "human rights" charges, and all the low-rent geniuses dance in glee at the "honour". :roll: La-dee-f**king-dah. Hope modiji gets back in one piece - India needs him.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

Meanwhile: This, is quite significant - for us scientists - both in US and India -

The DST-NSF partnership process started with the co-funding of the hubs of Cyber -physical Systems some time ago.
Last August, NSF announced 35 awards connecting researchers from universities across the U.S. with scientists and engineers at several of India's Technology Innovation Hubs. Through these joint U.S.-India research projects, principal investigators from both nations are bringing their expertise together to accelerate the development of new technologies, tools and systems for mutual societal and economic benefit.


NSF signs U.S.-India implementation arrangement to streamline the process of funding projects between the two nations
"The signing of the new implementation arrangement is a significant step. It will bring our scientific agencies and institutions closer and open new windows for joint research in strategic and technical areas, which would positively impact the prosperity of our peoples," said Ambassador Sandhu.
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Cyrano
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

All this is of course good in good times.
I hope our researchers keep all their work and data on secure, locally backed up INDIAN servers to avoid getting locked out when good times run out. They always do for "friends" of Amreeka.

And patent everything that has the slightest commercial interest. And keep our own secrets where we are ahead instead of showing everything off in search of white man's praise.

Let's be clear, this partnership is a stepping stone for both sides. Only I don't want India to be stepped on for America's benefit.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Sorry if I sound too negative or defensive, the example of LCA FBW CLAW S/W is still a raw memory for me.

I'm not at all trying to imply that our scientists are gullible fools. But we tend to be sincere and honest indians and Americans have repeatedly shown they aren't the same. It takes the brazen, cutthroat mentality and gumption of the Chinese to extract more from such agreements than we put into it, and it's not the way India typically does these things.

Who is the driving force behind these agreements India or US? Why is the US doing this? Why now? What if India doesn't go along? What alternatives with others or all by ourselves?

If folks like Amber G can shed some light on these aspects, that would be great.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vera_k »

Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's ex-president and U.S. ally dies at 79

File under likely to have more impact working for the Pakistan America Caucus.
Rep. Ro Khanna talks growing Hindu nationalism and visa wait times
“It’s the duty of every American politician of Hindu faith to stand for pluralism, reject Hindutva, and speak for equal rights for Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhist & Christians,” Khanna tweeted.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by V_Raman »

this is a strange situation we are in. white members of congress is head over heels for india while all india members of congress throw venom against india !!

as always - we are our own worst enemy !!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

srikandan wrote:Hope modiji gets back in one piece - India needs him.
I am sure he will have a great time.

I am more worried about Bhaidanwa - will he be still in action ? or will modi be greeted instead by kamala with that gawd-awful grin ? or will bhaidanwa remember who he is meeting ("who's this guy?? huh? what am i supposed to say??")
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by srikandan »

KL Dubey: I am more worried about Bhaidanwa - will he be still in action ? or will modi be greeted instead by kamala with that gawd-awful grin ? or will bhaidanwa remember who he is meeting ("who's this guy?? huh? what am i supposed to say??")
That guy can hardly string together a sentence or have a thought to save his life, so the evil scum in the US SD and CIA etc. are in control of the agenda.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

Image
sanjaykumar
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

Congratulations indeed.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by srikandan »

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Zynda »

Rep. Ro Khanna talks growing Hindu nationalism and visa wait times as he prepares to helm India Caucus
Some excerpts:
Khanna said that, having spent much of his career in Northern California's Silicon Valley, he has been immersed in Indian American issues for years. The rising tide of Hindu nationalism is on the forefront of the diaspora’s collective consciousness; from professional spheres to college campuses, reports of Islamophobia and casteism abound in South Asian spaces.

Khanna hasn’t shied away from such conversations, and his vocalness has sparked outrage from right-wing Indian Americans. In 2019, 230 Hindu and Indian American entities wrote letter criticizing Khanna for denouncing Hindu nationalism (also known as Hindutva) and for advocating religious equality on the subcontinent.

“It’s the duty of every American politician of Hindu faith to stand for pluralism, reject Hindutva, and speak for equal rights for Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhist & Christians,” Khanna tweeted at the time.

They also criticized Khanna for joining the Congressional Pakistan Caucus and for speaking out against Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s revoking the state of Kashmir’s autonomy.

“Of course, we have to fulfill the strategic partnership and we have to respect the democratically elected leadership in India,” Khanna told NBC News. “I will work to strengthen that while also upholding these human rights values.”
Also...Indian-American Ro Khanna, Mike Waltz elected co-chairs of House India caucus
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by srikandan »

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by drnayar »

srikandan wrote:And we are all supposed to be thrilled that this racist, anti-India, sh!th0le of a country has invited a devout, practising Hindu Indian PM for a visit to their hostile shores. The Muslim Brotherhood has made deep inroads into the US government with the willing collusion of the likes of Hillary Clinton and Obama, and these HAF scum are cheering on their own extinction from US political discourse.

one needs to understand how the US parties "wing" the elections. Incredibly under the very nose of immigration , "people" are brought in from some countries in midnight flights into key electoral states.. much like the beedis settling in kerala as west Bengalis with full voting rights.. one can guess the religious denomination of such people !
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Sumeet »

srikandan wrote:
Who are these slimy turds who call themselves the "Hindu American Foundation"? Clearly no actual hindus involved in there, as opposed to the "secular" kind, going by these oiseaules cheering Ro Khanna on just after he spouted some hateful stuff on "Hindutva" -- maybe someone needs to tell the vermin in the "Hindu American Foundation" that "hindutva" means "being hindu" and they are cheering on a target being painted on the backs of practising hindus. Maybe these so-called "Hindu Americans"need to be reminded that they live in a country whose official religion caused the jewish holocaust in the 20th century, i.e., christianity, but only after a target was painted on the backs of an industrious and wealthy religious minority just because they dared to be better than christians.
Dude care to read more about HAF before spewing allegations on them. Go through their twitter timeline if you cannot do anything else. I can educate you but will let you do the digging yourself. It's easiest to say crap about someone.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by srikandan »

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by nachiket »

Srikandan, , cut out the egregious insults and language. You have been given an official warning. If you continue in this manner you will receive a ban.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

When all is said and done...
United States and India trade .. $133 billion in 2022 . Highest ever with a 17% increase from 2021 .
Source: @CSISIndiaChair
Last edited by Amber G. on 09 Feb 2023 23:16, edited 1 time in total.
Amber G.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

Cyrano wrote:Sorry if I sound too negative or defensive, the example of LCA FBW CLAW S/W is still a raw memory for me.

I'm not at all trying to imply that our scientists are gullible fools. But we tend to be sincere and honest indians and Americans have repeatedly shown they aren't the same. It takes the brazen, cutthroat mentality and gumption of the Chinese to extract more from such agreements than we put into it, and it's not the way India typically does these things.

Who is the driving force behind these agreements India or US? Why is the US doing this? Why now? What if India doesn't go along? What alternatives with others or all by ourselves?

If folks like Amber G can shed some light on these aspects, that would be great.
No, our scientists are not gullible fools, nor our leaders PM and POTUS.. despite what "experts" of BBC (and others ddm's) say. These are elected and capable leaders. NSA (Ajitji Doval and Jake Sullivan) have trust of their leaders which counts more than all the gaalis and abuses thrown at them.

And all this is not just some random event .. lots of time (years), effort and hard work goes behind the scene. Just the Doval/Sullivan team consisted about 50 technical experts (including CEO's of *well known* companies, college professors/presidents ... which even NYT couldn't mock in their article)...

Just one small example - I talked about NSF/DST document/agreement in previous post. I am familiar with background and people involved for last *many* years. Prof Sharma (Then Secretary, DST ) started the process from IDST side (may be 5-6 years ago). He was a IITK prof (and now again, after serving under Modi many years, back to academic life) and earned trust from Modi. It also helps that NSF's current director (Panchanathan) is also a IITian... both are well respected in India and USA (Having spent time in both countries) and have mutual trust and respect built over years..

Anyway.. we will see what comes out of all this..FWIW I am quite optimistic.

Meanwhile: I notice that Indian Ambassador is tweeting about being "delight to see Indian tech company TCS being listed among the most admired!"

And being happy to Join Minister Hardeepji S Puri for a roundtable with USIBC
and USISPF discussing opportunities and potential for India US energy cooperation as part of India Energy Week.
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Amber G.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

.. Scenes from today .. described by some as .. "and all the low-rent geniuses dance in glee at the "honour".. :evil:
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(USISPF was guest ..On the eve of Uttar Pradesh's Global Investor Summit 2023..to a special dinner hosted by the Honorable UP Chief Minister Yogiji. )
Picture Credit: (US-India Strategic Partnership Forum)
Added later: Looks like on Feb 10, Modiji will be visiting Lucknow and address the Global Investor Summit 2023...
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KLNMurthy »

drnayar wrote:
srikandan wrote:And we are all supposed to be thrilled that this racist, anti-India, sh!th0le of a country has invited a devout, practising Hindu Indian PM for a visit to their hostile shores. The Muslim Brotherhood has made deep inroads into the US government with the willing collusion of the likes of Hillary Clinton and Obama, and these HAF scum are cheering on their own extinction from US political discourse.

one needs to understand how the US parties "wing" the elections. Incredibly under the very nose of immigration , "people" are brought in from some countries in midnight flights into key electoral states.. much like the beedis settling in kerala as west Bengalis with full voting rights.. one can guess the religious denomination of such people !
Not even the biggest election fraud claimers in the US have alleged that immigrants were flown in at midnight for votes. If you have information to support this statement please share it here. Otherwise withdraw the statement.

Mods, BRF can’t be allowed to degenerate into a place for wild & crazy stuff. Please step in.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vimal »

Election fraud in the US is real, there are lots of articles on the Internet even from leftie media to prove it. Whether they get flown on planes or enter via land is immaterial, the result remains the same. No prizes for guessing which party benefits the most from illegal immigration.

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-al ... estigation

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 237115002/
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by NRao »

Cyrano wrote:All this is of course good in good times.
I hope our researchers keep all their work and data on secure, locally backed up INDIAN servers to avoid getting locked out when good times run out. They always do for "friends" of Amreeka.

And patent everything that has the slightest commercial interest. And keep our own secrets where we are ahead instead of showing everything off in search of white man's praise.

Let's be clear, this partnership is a stepping stone for both sides. Only I don't want India to be stepped on for America's benefit.
* There are some within the US ready to do a Nord Stream on Indian Atmanirbhar (pipe) dream. And, they can execute. I share your concern

___________________

Observations:

* The docs signed last week, since the highest authority signed them, I feel, they provide little tactile feedback - in that I cannot get a good picture of what the RoI (as an example) would be. We need to wait

* So I conducted a dirty search for NSF-related joint Indo-US research projects. Found two NSF docs: $ 430 million in five-years, and some supplemental funding. Again, nothing in terms of where the monies were allocated, what has been the progress, was the research results applied and did they see any returns (any type). It would be nice to find a doc that is very specific, till then TBD

Since the US funded this joint research, why would the US not expect RoI?

Air Force Research Laboratory, Dayton, OH, only for comparison purposes, spent, in 2020 alone $384 million within Ohio and another $270 million outside Ohio.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by nachiket »

vimal wrote:Election fraud in the US is real, there are lots of articles on the Internet even from leftie media to prove it. Whether they get flown on planes or enter via land is immaterial, the result remains the same. No prizes for guessing which party benefits the most from illegal immigration.
Whether it is real or not is irrelevant. US election fraud has nothing to do with India or with India-US relations which is what this thread is about. So please desist from discussing US election related news here. This goes for everyone on this thread.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

One thing (very important IMO) we need ASAP is massive reforms / streamlining and ease of Visa process for Indian nationals who want to work (or visit) here. Everyone know this is a mess..

This may be a step in right direction... hope this materialize soon..
>>The State Department will launch a pilot program later this year offering visa renewal options in the US for H-1B specialty occupation workers and other temporary visa holders who are currently required to travel abroad.
..
“We all saw during the pandemic how difficult it was for these people to return to their home country and often not be able to get visa appointments to come back to their home, the United States, ..That’s what we’re trying to address initially with this.”

“That should open up their capacity do a lot more interviews and get wait times down" Let us hope these things gets fixed ASAP...
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

Wrt: NSF/DST Partnership:
(I linked a short NSF doc in one of the previous post)..
From what I know:

The DST-NSF partnership process started with the co-funding of the hubs of Cyber -physical Systems ... a few years ago.

NSF announced 35 awards (per NSF) connecting researchers from universities across the U.S. with scientists and engineers at several of India's Technology Innovation Hubs. (joint U.S.-India research projects, principal investigators from both nations )

In the past five years, NSF has invested over $146 million in collaborative research activities with scientists, engineers and educators across India....

We will see but IMO the signing of the new implementation arrangement is indeed a significant step. (The mood/reactions of Indian scientists - from what I can tell - is quite optimistic)
...We may have to wait for a few years to see how it all goes ...(RoI for most R&D type projects is not immediate... and lot or R&D activity is going on India on it's own)
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by drnayar »

KLNMurthy wrote:
drnayar wrote:

one needs to understand how the US parties "wing" the elections. Incredibly under the very nose of immigration , "people" are brought in from some countries in midnight flights into key electoral states.. much like the beedis settling in kerala as west Bengalis with full voting rights.. one can guess the religious denomination of such people !
Not even the biggest election fraud claimers in the US have alleged that immigrants were flown in at midnight for votes. If you have information to support this statement please share it here. Otherwise withdraw the statement.

Mods, BRF can’t be allowed to degenerate into a place for wild & crazy stuff. Please step in.
someone posted in BRF before



https://www.foxnews.com/politics/video- ... ontractors
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

csaurabh
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by csaurabh »

US funding to Indian academia would make it even bigger of a disaster than it currently is.
Already as it is, Indian scientific endeavour is totally stymied by the need to generate 'papers' approved by 'international publications' which is mostly controlled by US and EU. Any kind of indigenization or real technology development no longer happens in the academia now.
Add funding by NSF like entities and the takeover of Indian universities will be complete.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

dr nayar and KLNM please take it off line.
And others don't pipe in and take sniper shots.
KLN asked for evidence and drnayar presented it.
Yes, it's not germane but the thread is already contaminated.
No more off-topic. Thanks.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

csaurabh wrote:US funding to Indian academia would make it even bigger of a disaster than it currently is.
Already as it is, Indian scientific endeavour is totally stymied by the need to generate 'papers' approved by 'international publications' which is mostly controlled by US and EU. Any kind of indigenization or real technology development no longer happens in the academia now.
Add funding by NSF like entities and the takeover of Indian universities will be complete.
"Science" and "technology" are not to be pursued in the same way nor by the same set of people.

The number and quality of scientific publications from academia is a key marker of leadership. In addition to generating new scientific ideas and knowledge banks, this is what trains the workforce in the scientific method. No country has become a front-rank technological power without this base. One can argue over what defines quality and whether peer review practices need updation but that's not the issue here.

Otherwise you'll just have a large number of technologists pursuing essentially ad hoc developmental activities and can't connect to the latest advances in science. It's not easy to do this. Countries like USA have made this a well-oiled system. Certainly collaboration with NSF and other US science agencies will be beneficial.

Academia's function is not to "develop real technology". Its function is to provide the key ideas, scientific foundation/intellectual property, and to provide a trained workforce that can be engaged to develop and commercialize technology. It may also participate in early stages of technology transfer.

Both science and technology need to go hand-in-hand. The entire spectrum from very basic science (the kind of stuff that scientists win prizes for) to very applied technology needs to be properly cultivated. "Patent and prosper" is good to a certain extent, but a country that doesn't prize basic science and academia will become stuck as a middle level technological power at best, mostly producing derivative/catch-up technology for local problems. That by itself is not bad at all - some of these catch-up areas are critically important like space, nuclear. But those do not sustain a 1.4 billion population economy. India should do much more. It's not possible without a deep and solid science base.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by NRao »

@csaurabh ,

Do we know if the NSF funding was provided to only educational institutions in India? I suspect EI was the majority recipient, but I would not be surprised if some start-ups, etc got some money.

___________________________________-

However, just yesterday NSF announced New $60 million NSF program ... (funds for US institutions) to:
.... The program will support institutions of higher education to build capacity and infrastructure needed to strengthen and scale the translation of basic research outcomes into impactful solutions and practice.

....
NSF has never been satisfied with publishing papers, that has never been their focus.

They look for products.

This is why I would be interested in finding out who in India was funded by NSF. I expect some amount of collaboration between Indian and American entities, which would mean that the Indian "culture" will need to be "modified" (IMO). Indian entities cannot stop at publishing papers alone - they will need to produce products in some form.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

csaurabh wrote:US funding to Indian academia would make it even bigger of a disaster than it currently is.
Already as it is, Indian scientific endeavour is totally stymied by the need to generate 'papers' approved by 'international publications' which is mostly controlled by US and EU. Any kind of indigenization or real technology development no longer happens in the academia now.
Add funding by NSF like entities and the takeover of Indian universities will be complete.
Disagree. For perspective, this is what S20 Chair (and Ex DST secretary)remarked in opening ..
... Prime Minister Narendra Modi had exhorted that science and technology can remove national barriers, unify the world and advance peace. This is a message of optimism for science and a message of hope for the world,.
INDEED!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

This may be of interest to those who seriously want to learn more about these issues --> USISPF (US-India Strategic Partnership Forum) has launched Quad+. A journal dedicated to the intersection of geopolitics and technology. Recent edition features an exclusive interview with India’s EAM Dr S Jaishankar (and contributions from intellectuals across all four quad members).
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Post by Amber G. »

Meanwhile: a roundtable with American aerospace and defense sector companies on the sidelines of Aeroshow 2023, in Bengaluru, Karnataka. Conversations on strengthening the India US defense relationship with commercial partners.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

NRao wrote:NSF has never been satisfied with publishing papers, that has never been their focus.
What...?

The vast bulk of NSF funds fundamental research in science and engineering, whose "products" are mainly scientific knowledge in the form of published papers and if applicable, intellectual property (patents) arising from discoveries. Along with this mandate, they also stress education and training of the workforce and outreach to K-12 and other communities. In fact, it was NSF that did the recent survey of top scientific publishing countries.

A small part of NSF (IIP, recently renamed TIP) has been hived off a long time ago to provide seed funding (phase 1 and phase 2 SBIR/STTR) for small businesses trying to commercialize scientific discoveries. Again, that is a federal mandate across many funding agencies that also covers NSF.

Regarding the recent "NSF funding to India", people should read carefully before commenting. The Indian government has made a large funding opportunity of $430 million for Indian researchers. NSF has provided a small $3 million funding for those projects in which the Indian researchers wish to collaborate with US researchers. This is nothing really new and has been done at NSF for years with many country collaborations including India in the past.

Similarly the IUSSTF, a joint Indo-US fund, has been providing "glue funding" for India-US collaborations for many years. In this mechanism the Indian and US sides arrange their own research funding from domestic agencies, and IUSSTF provides funding to create a Center structure, project management, and personnel interactions. That fund is contributed by India DST and US DOS.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

KL Dubey - Thanks for the post..

I do see a lot of discussion with dst/nsf agreement but honestly (IMO) I do some some bizarre "analysis" (like "it will be a total disaster onlee " -) - not unexpected but not helpful.

It might help if people do, at least read nsf/dst docs ... get some actual background etc..

Anyway let me just post what is commonly available .. some of these steps taken are very *recent*.. hope this gives some background... (and people understand what "it" is before commenting "it" is a total disaster"..)

Anyway -- just some excerpts from the recent (Feb 1) signing...
February 1, 2023
The U.S. National Science Foundation and India signed an implementation arrangement that streamlines the selection and funding process of research projects from scientists and engineers from the United States and India. India's Ambassador to the U.S., Taranjit Singh Sandhu, joined NSF officials in the signing ceremony held yesterday at the White House as part of the U.S.-India Initiative on Critical and Emerging Technologies dialogue.
..
..Through international collaboration and the sharing of ideas, resources and best practices between like-minded partners, it has been demonstrated that great things can be accomplished. The opportunities under this arrangement are broad and can nimbly adjust to strategic priorities and researcher interests in computer science and engineering, geosciences, math and physical sciences, engineering, and emerging technologies.
"Through the creation of these opportunities, we are emphasizing to the science and technology communities and the world that our governments are serious about breaking down barriers and facilitating collaboration," said NSF Director Sethuraman Panchanathan. "We look forward to this implementation arrangement, which will open up new vistas for strategic collaborations at speed and scale and leverage the strong scientific and cultural connections between the U.S. and India."
In the past five years, NSF has invested over $146 million in collaborative research activities with scientists, engineers and educators across India. These partnerships have supported new economic opportunities and discoveries that are transforming and leading innovation that will benefit the world.
Last August, NSF announced 35 awards connecting researchers from universities across the U.S. with scientists and engineers at several of India's Technology Innovation Hubs. Through these joint U.S.-India research projects, principal investigators from both nations are bringing their expertise together to accelerate the development of new technologies, tools and systems for mutual societal and economic benefit.
Finally per India's Ambassador:
"The signing of the new implementation arrangement is a significant step. It will bring our scientific agencies and institutions closer and open new windows for joint research in strategic and technical areas, which would positively impact the prosperity of our peoples,"
Credit: nsf.gov. emphasis mine.
sudham
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sudham »

There are lots of tweets about a potential ecological disaster due to the derailment of Chemical laden trains in Ohio. Could be rumours but sounds bad if true!
vijayk
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Amber G.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Amber G. »

United States Air Force’s F-35 have been showcased at Aero India 2023.
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