India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

RD and Gautam, let's try to do red team thinking. Why did Ro Khanna sponsor waiving this Kalidasa Act?
We don't have the voting record when CAATSA was enacted.
Am sure these same unworthies had pushed for it.
So why now?
We need to look at who supports and helps then raise funds to run for elections.
Here is one such person.

https://indianewengland.com/as-indian-a ... nd-future/
I do not know who appoints/selects people like Ro Khanna and Richard Verma in the hope that India will be impressed by such selection.
I suspect there is an informal Indian American influencer network that gets pulsed to make such appointments.
Also, see many second-rung govt appointments.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ramana »

BTW there is an interesting webinar that folks might want to register for and get the drift

https://twitter.com/AmericanIndoPa1/sta ... fuPDr7ybpw

Image
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

Ramanaji, thanks. A bit old but still 100% relevant. Indians sponsored by President Obama are spreading their wings today. I would not have come across Mr. Ramesh Kapoor on my own, I will try to follow him and see if he has left stuff on the internet to read.
Gautam
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32225
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:RD and Gautam, let's try to do red team thinking. Why did Ro Khanna sponsor waiving this Kalidasa Act?
We don't have the voting record when CAATSA was enacted.
Am sure these same unworthies had pushed for it.
So why now?
We need to look at who supports and helps then raise funds to run for elections.
Here is one such person.

https://indianewengland.com/as-indian-a ... nd-future/
I do not know who appoints/selects people like Ro Khanna and Richard Verma in the hope that India will be impressed by such selection.
I suspect there is an informal Indian American influencer network that gets pulsed to make such appointments.
Also, see many second-rung govt appointments.
Using ro khanna is a convoluted ploy. Obviously, the two faced guy has been either offered some sort of a deal or has been trapped in some shady goings on. It is extremely suspicious when these sort of people, out of the blue, and also, out of character, push such an agenda.

CAATSA is absolutely the wrong button to push against a country like India and like Jaishankar has categorically said that CAATSA is an ameriki problem. The stand that India has taken in recent times has left no one in any doubt as to which way a CAATSA sanction against India would play out and the blowback repercussions on the amerikis cannot be easily gamed by them because of Modi's unpredictability.

The amerikis are virtually isolated on the global stage. They have very few "friends" left who are ready to do their bidding, unlike in the old days. A not so friendly India, calling them out on issues of democracy will upset their imagined chimeric world order. Putin has already all but demolished the so called 'rules-based international system'.

The deep state did not anticipate such an obvious and rapid deterioration of the POTUS's mental faculties. The mylapore maami has also proven herself to being equally vacuous. Her intellect is bettered by a poodle with a very limited repertoire of parlour tricks.

So what's next for the lame guys who rigged an election and brought upon themselves such a horrendous disaster. Look carefully and you will spot the black swan amidst the rubble

India is not their friend and the ameriki deep state including its pet, the rabid and pretentious junkyard dog and handmaiden USCRIF know that well. But it is the deep state that has gone out of its way to mishandle India for tens of decades, as they did for africa and the gulf and today they stand at the edge of a precipice that they have created for themselves.

And the ameriki media reflects that viewpoint. At best, India is a wary fellow traveller who is also quite capable of charting out an independent course for herself, if need be.

We were never an ameriki colony but now it looks like they want us to be one, and a docile and servile one at that

The GOI would not be deflected by fluff like CAATSA was obvious from the beginning and the amerikis were looking for a way out.

CAATSA is primarily about seriously impacting other's democratic choice too and the rights of a nation to choose how she arms herself and how she defends against her enemies. These are matters of supreme national interests

boneheaded ameriki diktats in this vital domain are just not acceptable and anyway, why would India want become a party to countering america's adversaries. In this particular case, america's adversaries are not our adversaries.

Putin has hit back at the amerikis and they don't want Modi doing the same.

Their major mistake was in thinking that India was another version of the paki that the amerikis could, as usual, bull doze their greedy and rapacious way through.

The situation is eerily similar though, the amerikis used the pakis while stirring up the afghans and they are using the same tactics with India and kowtowing to the cheenis.

The pakis backstabbed them but India has her sharp sword still sheathed and the hand on the sword is Modi's and not the old, familiar, pliable and slippery hand of the roman mafia controlled puppet raincoat singh
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

Our EAM Dr SJ made a telling statement recently calling out US for its support to Pak for decades and creating lot of problems for India.

If he has gone out and said this which no one from the Indian side wanted to say openly so far, and even Dr SJ himself avoided until now then its more than a warning to US establishment or deep state or whoever that they are but this close to losing India's friendship for a long time to come.

Behind the Quad, G7, I2U2 type aaleejwell meet and greets the relationship are perhaps at its lowest that it's been for decades, despite Dr SJ at the helm who has deep connects with all sides in the US and invested a major part of his career to dehyphenate and brought home the nuclear deal.

Biden administration must be bungling and fcuking up really really badly to make our EAM to come out of his usual reserve and spank them like this.
SRajesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2061
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by SRajesh »

Cyranoji
Given that POTUS is loosing marbles and 'MM' has already lost it who else can the Deep-State and the Christo-Jihadi's pick for the Elephants then
Wonder whether Ro is being built for the 'Mukhota' role!!
HIllary will be a difficult 'Nagin 7' noo!
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Cyrano »

I seriously doubt if Nextwa will be chosen with India as the main preoccupation
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32225
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

Rsatchi wrote:Cyranoji
Given that POTUS is loosing marbles and 'MM' has already lost it who else can the Deep-State and the Christo-Jihadi's pick for the Elephants then
Wonder whether Ro is being built for the 'Mukhota' role!!
HIllary will be a difficult 'Nagin 7' noo!
ro khanna is in the use and throw category.

His job is done and they have used an "Indian" hammer in their armoury to flatten the self created "Indian" problem that was staring them in the face.

They could as well have said that the S-400 deal predates the CAATSA and so it will not apply.

Like the "grandfather clause or provision" that the russkis so conveniently use for continued support for our russian origin nuclear power reactors and the amerikis can't do jack about it

the amerikis fail to see how patronizing and petty they look
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

Cyrano wrote:Our EAM Dr SJ made a telling statement recently calling out US for its support to Pak for decades and creating lot of problems for India.
If he has gone out and said this which no one from the Indian side wanted to say openly so far, and even Dr SJ himself avoided until now then its more than a warning to US establishment or deep state or whoever that they are but this close to losing India's friendship for a long time to come.
Behind the Quad, G7, I2U2 type aaleejwell meet and greets the relationship are perhaps at its lowest that it's been for decades, despite Dr SJ at the helm who has deep connects with all sides in the US and invested a major part of his career to dehyphenate and brought home the nuclear deal.
Biden administration must be bungling and fcuking up really really badly to make our EAM to come out of his usual reserve and spank them like this.
Actually along with Pakistan, the entire problem of an aggressive and expanding China is a gift of Uncle Sam for India and the rest of Asia. China was behind India economically when Nixon visited. It was propped up against the USSR to split the communist camp.
Gautam
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32225
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

this twitter will be the cause of some bad blood between the US and India one day within the next 2-3 years

Image
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8760
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vijayk »

g.sarkar wrote:Ramanaji, thanks. A bit old but still 100% relevant. Indians sponsored by President Obama are spreading their wings today. I would not have come across Mr. Ramesh Kapoor on my own, I will try to follow him and see if he has left stuff on the internet to read.
Gautam
Met Ramesh Kapoor few times here in some Democratic events. He was there initially for Tulsi and then dumped her.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Pratyush »

[quote="chetak"]this twitter will be the cause of some bad blood between the US and India one day within the next 2-3 years

....

Then India will just ban Twitter. End of story.
Last edited by ramana on 25 Jul 2022 08:05, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited by ramana.
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8760
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vijayk »

https://warontherocks.com/2022/07/india ... cordingly/
INDIA IS A SWING STATE — COOPERATE WITH IT ACCORDINGLY
Taking India’s position as a “global swing state” seriously requires understanding New Delhi’s deep-rooted commitment to the principle of strategic autonomy. This principle is not specific to the Cold War or simply desire for neutrality. Instead, it is fundamental to the way India understands and manages risk in international politics.

NATO represents a trans-Atlantic approach to collective security that prioritizes clearly signaling commitments and taking firm stances against rivals. Indian policymakers have resisted applying a similar approach to China. They see bloc-like formations as narrowing the strategic options for middle and regional powers like theirs. For these reasons, ambiguity has been an asset for India in managing many of its difficult relationships. While India has been called the “weakest link in the Quad,” its resistance to any form of alliance-like language or commitments that would unsettle Beijing has allowed it to maintain economic ties with China since the 1990s. These have not only contributed to a relative peace between the two rivals for decades but also helped India advance its unique development goals. Even today, India and China continue to maintain strong trade relations despite the border clashes of June 2020.
Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3512
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rony »

https://twitter.com/AartiTikoo/status/1 ... HW9MlSXs3w : CIA killed India’s nuclear physicist Homi Bhabha and Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri—confessions of Robert Crowley, the second in command of the CIA's Directorate of Operations (in charge of covert operations), as recorded in a book by Gregory Douglas.

Image

Image
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

ah., you beat me to that !!.. and when some argue for F 18 ityadi ..it hurts
Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3512
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rony »

Whether CIA based on the above book or KGB (based on mitrokhin archives), its definitely not a natural death.

And look at the language that animal uses for Indians/Hindus . same language which our "liberals" and "secularists" use for Hindus.
Jay
BRFite
Posts: 697
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Jay »

Rony wrote: And look at the language that animal uses for Indians/Hindus . same language which our "liberals" and "secularists" use for Hindus.
Liberals, and secularists use different terms like castiest, racist, upper class, Brahmanical, etc. This filth in the texts is pure white privilege and fundamental Christian judgment on how they are superior..AKA... the conservative right.
Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8266
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Dilbu »

After the House, US Senate moves to deepen ties with India on defence, emerging tech
WASHINGTON: In yet another signal of Capitol Hill’s political commitment to the India-United States (US) strategic relationship, the Senate Armed Services Committee (SASC), in its version of the National Defence Authorisation Act (NDAA), has asked Pentagon to step up its engagement with India on issues of “emerging technologies, readiness and logistics” within 90 days of the passage of the legislation.

Among other issues, the Senate version of NDAA has identified intelligence collection capabilities, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), 5G, fourth and fifth generation aircraft, and joint research and development (R&D), as areas for cooperation with India. It has also asked the secretary of defence to submit a report on the issue to the appropriate committees in the Senate and House of Representatives within 180 days.

The Senate Armed Services Committee (SASC), which has piloted the legislation, has proposed an $847 billion budget for national defence in 2023.
Among these issues, 5G and ORAN have emerged as a key pillar of India-US cooperation both within the bilateral format and under Quad as both countries seek to prevent Chinese dominance in the sector and come up with an alternative. Cold weather capabilities assume significance at a time when India is locked into a military confrontation with China in eastern Ladakh. Cyber remains a growing area of convergence, while there is increased bilateral discussion on UAVs especially with American defence companies. And the emphasis on joint R&D is seen as an acknowledgment of the scientific talent that India can bring to the table as well as a realisation that the US has to be more open to technology-sharing, a key issue that has prevented the further deepening of ties.
ldev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2616
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ldev »

Rony wrote:https://twitter.com/AartiTikoo/status/1 ... HW9MlSXs3w : CIA killed India’s nuclear physicist Homi Bhabha and Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri—confessions of Robert Crowley, the second in command of the CIA's Directorate of Operations (in charge of covert operations), as recorded in a book by Gregory Douglas.
This is a comment on the book on Amazon reviews:
Was really enjoying the book until about halfway thru the RTC fellow who is being interviewed by author states that Kruschev is alive somewhere in Russia?? This book was written in the 90's Kruschev died in 1971!!. So folks this is just a fiction book. Don't take what is revealed to heart
Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4226
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

This so-called book is unattested, unverifiable nonsense. That may be very well be what they think of Indians and Hindus in reality, but the particular quotes attributed to CIA persons in this book are completely made up.

So don't waste your outrage. And more importantly don't use rubbish like this so-called interview as a reference when having debates on social media or internet forums. You will only tarnish your own credibility and that of the entire cause.
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

Rudradev wrote:This so-called book is unattested, unverifiable nonsense. That may be very well be what they think of Indians and Hindus in reality, but the particular quotes attributed to CIA persons in this book are completely made up.

.

That might well be , but how are you so sure that they are completely made up ? there is no fiction without facts either
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/ca ... 92798.html
CAATSA realities
India’s unique and complex situation and history resurfaced recently with Delhi abstaining on the UN vote condemning the Russian action in Ukraine.
BHOPINDER SINGH | July 23, 2022

In 2018, India signed the $5 billion S-400 Air Defence System deal with Russia. This was despite the relatively recent denomination of ‘Major Defence Partner’ status with the United States in 2016. But the environmental dynamics were different as a Republican (traditionally more pro-India on security) President i.e., Donald Trump, was in the White House and the Russia-Ukraine war had not broken out. Despite Trump’s kneejerk threat of a US reaction, ‘India is soon going to find out’, his Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and the Secretary of Defense, James Mattis, had quietly played down the issue, contextualising India’s strategic compulsions. At stakes were the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) imperatives that sought to sanction any nation that engaged in major defense deals with Russia, Iran or North Korea (amongst other factors). With India purchasing the sophisticated S-400 Air Defence System from Russia ~ it was tantamount to seriously red flagging the CAATSA provisions.
No less than the United States’ own Nato (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation) ally, Turkey, was sanctioned under CAATSA for purchasing the same S-400 system. While the Damocles Sword of ‘sanctions’ remained on India, the United States took no punitive decision ~ soon, the dispensation changed to the Democrats under Joe Biden and the US-Russian equation went into a further tailspin, with the war in Ukraine. As the Biden administration remained mired in the affairs of Ukraine, its frustrations with Russia and its strategic footprint globally, got even more sensitive ~ at a logical crossroad was the pending decision of a CAATSA sanction on India. However, despite the topical focus on Russia in Washington DC, there is absolutely no doubt on Capitol Hill on the primacy of China (rather than Russia) to challenge and reframe the world order with its expansionist ‘military-industrial’ establishment. US Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken, clearly posited Beijing ~ as opposed to Moscow ~ to pose, ‘the most severe long-term challenge to the international system’.
This crucial realisation offered the plausible window for New Delhi to frame its substantial argument for a waiver under CAATSA, even if the same was denied to a Nato ally i.e., Turkey. After all, it was under the Barack Obama administration with Vice President Biden in tow that the strategic semantic of ‘Pivot to Asia’ was permeated into the US’s foreign policy thinking. India, which was described by the then US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, as, ‘an indispensable strategic partner’ in the pivot framework ~ needed more appreciation, inclusion, and leeway in the US foreign policy calculus, as envisaged till then. Clinton had insisted, ‘Socalled pivot has been about creative diplomacy’ and, ‘there are limits to what hard power on its own can achieve. That’s why, from day one, I’ve been talking about smart power’! Smart power realistically implied as an instance recognising the differences and contexts, when assessing similar actions of ‘allies’ like Turkey and India ~ each had its own merits, nuances and sensitivities, and accepting the differences was key. India’s unique and complex situation and history resurfaced recently with Delhi abstaining on the UN vote condemning the Russian action in Ukraine.
There were security, economic and wider geopolitical considerations at stake for Delhi that prompted it to counter-intuitively join the ranks of China and 33 other nations to vote ‘abstain’, to the discomfort of the US-led bloc. The oft-bandied ‘independent foreign policy’ of India can potentially frustrate the traditional American thinking of linearity and absolutism, e.g., Delhi’s regional and civilisational relationship with Iran will always test Washington’s binary approach of ‘with us or with them’. Capitol Hill can no longer afford to view the world from its own insular lens, and if it intends to meaningfully counter China, then understanding the Indian perspective, vulnerability and thinking needs to be inculcated. India is realistically the single biggest security-economic-diplomatic bulwark to China’s expansionism, even within the Quad (Quadrilateral understanding between the Sinowary United States, Japan, Australia, and India).
......
Gautam
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8760
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vijayk »

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/23/politics ... index.html
CNN Exclusive: FBI investigation determined Chinese-made Huawei equipment could disrupt US nuclear arsenal communications

They need to take advantage of this situation
Bart S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2938
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Bart S »

^The US govt is already paying US service providers to replace ZTE and Huawei equipment, however when they actually started the effort they discovered that the scale of the penetration of these companies (and accordingly the budget required) was several times of what they had initially estimated. Looks like the Chinese were virtually giving away these devices for free in order to infiltrate their equipment everywhere and the greedy American service providers lapped it all up.
Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4226
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

kit wrote:
Rudradev wrote:This so-called book is unattested, unverifiable nonsense. That may be very well be what they think of Indians and Hindus in reality, but the particular quotes attributed to CIA persons in this book are completely made up.

.

That might well be , but how are you so sure that they are completely made up ? there is no fiction without facts either
What are the "facts" underlying “Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland” :D

Many works of fiction (though not all) can have a kernel of real-world occurrences or truths within them. And that may be the case with “Conversations with the Crow” as well.

Moreover, it is almost certainly established from other sources that CIA could have had a role in LBS and Bhabha's assassinations. But to use "Conversations with the Crow" as a proof of this is utterly foolish.

The problem is that “Conversations with the Crow” is presented as a transcript of interviews or conversations between Crowley and Douglas. When you publish something as a transcripted conversation (or as an attribution, within quotation marks) there are literary and also legal implications.

This is a big deal. People get taken to court over such things. Rajiv Malhotra ji for instance found this out, when his publisher inadvertently omitted the quotation marks around certain passages from his book Battle for Sanskrit which were actually quotations.

If Crowley was not dead, then in a country like the US, you can bet there would have been a lawsuit against Douglas for this.

So while in other “normal” works of fiction there may be a room for a grey area—where some real-world character or occurrence may be described through metaphor, allegory, satire etc—that is CLEARLY not the case in “Conversation with the Crow”.

This book is presenting conversations as transcripted dialogue, if they really happened, when in fact there is no evidence that they ever happened. So in this case, there there is no grey area at all. Either there is an independently verifiable track record of the conversation, or it is completely made up. Since there is no track record of this conversation between GD and RC, the obvious conclusion is that it is completely made up.

I stand by my statement.

People who cite this "Conversations with the Crow" as a "source" for making claims about real-world history are only demonstrating their gullibility. They obviously cannot dig deep enough into a source to understand whether it is substantive or made up... which shows a serious impairment of critical thinking ability. Therefore, they have pre-emptively damaged their credibility even for making future arguments. QED.
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8760
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vijayk »

^^

I will tell you why this is useful though.

Useful tool to spread distrust against a lot of low life Indian(origin) LW writers who live on Soros money and their brain dead liberals in our friends circle who crap and spread gospel of fake news media

I put this news and simply say "I suspected KGB of Sastry's murder but look at this" in all my groups. My primary goal is to spread distrust against western narrative.

Most of the time brainwashed and brain dead libbies are struggling to defend this. If they dismiss this source, I say this from your own American sources which spread propaganda against India even today. Look at his language on Indians in 1980s and now. Not much changed. But now you are with these racist scums.

If they support this book, they themselves are agreeing to treachery.

We can't use this as a authoritative source but can be used to blunt propaganda racist ragtags and brainwashed idiots.
Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4226
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

Sir, it is up to you, since only you can control whatever standing you have.

I myself would not use a source unless I can verify its credibility to the maximum extent possible. I have seen the credibility of many otherwise good people threatened, or destroyed, because of even a small amount of carelessness in choosing and dealing with sources.

See how this was used against Rajiv Malhotra ji (above), even though in his case the mistake was 100% on the part of his publisher. If even a person like him can be harmed by something like this, who are you and me?

To me, it seems like using an inauthentic source is giving the other side a rope that they can ultimately hang you with. The history of your public activity remains publicly visible for a long time. The internet is large and filled with many enemies. Sooner or later one of them will find that you shared a particular source of low or zero credibility, and they will be able to accuse you of 'peddling misinformation'.

Then, at best, you will be stuck fighting a defensive battle about your own credibility, and you will have less time/energy/resources to take the real fight to the BIF enemy.

But as I said, up to you.
Last edited by Rudradev on 25 Jul 2022 23:18, edited 1 time in total.
ldev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2616
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ldev »

This "book" is trash!! It's available online for free. I won't dignify it with a link on the forum. It is hundreds of pages long and having scrolled down it skipping tens of pages at a time, I found the following gems:

JFK and his brother RFK were Russian spies transmitting the daily Presidential brief to Moscow!!

GWB a drunk and a druggie pi**ed in the WH hallway during Reagan's time and was thrown out by Nancy Reagan

A former DCI was bumped off for speaking his mind!!

The vitrol against Jews is horrifying!!

Enough said....Agree with RD's views about this "book". And, by the way, I could not find any sign of the alleged disparaging India comments.
KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4825
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KLNMurthy »

Rudradev wrote:
People who cite this "Conversations with the Crow" as a "source" for making claims about real-world history are only demonstrating their gullibility. They obviously cannot dig deep enough into a source to understand whether it is substantive or made up... which shows a serious impairment of critical thinking ability. Therefore, they have pre-emptively damaged their credibility even for making future arguments. QED.
Can’t possibly disagree with your well-taken point.

However, I will offer a different perspective.

Why are so many Indians so ready to believe this Crowley stuff? At one level, it is true that centuries of subjugation have left our collective critical faculties in a stunted state.

But at a different level, isn’t it also true that the Crowley narrative, as dubious on facts as it is, happens to harmonize with what Indians have come to know about American & white western attitude towards India and Indians?

Human brain has a side that looks for consistency & a common theme among experiences. I think that is what is happening here.

We are too ready to point the finger at ourselves, using the “western gaze.” Perhaps we should start pointing a finger at the west for behaving in such a way towards us as to create the set of experiences that make the Crowley narrative ring true to our people. Reverse the gaze, and see the West from our pov.
Bart S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2938
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Bart S »

None other than a US president in Nixon and their (probably even more powerful) strategy/FP czar in Kissinger have been on record with racist and bigoted views that were almost as crass, and so was Churchill. One can only imagine what the lower rungs were like. This book is a distraction but the general attitudes towards India remain a problem, and IMHO the woke-ist narrative is in a way a modern-day continuation of the same albeit in a much more sophisticated way.
Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3512
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rony »

Rudradev wrote: Moreover, it is almost certainly established from other sources that CIA could have had a role in LBS and Bhabha's assassinations.
Which are these other sources Rudradev garu
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10032
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

“Conversations with the Crow” may be questionable. However, from the mid 1950s through 1970s, the US did destabilize friendly and allied governments. Everything from political assassinations and killing key officials was US practiced policy. It still exists to this day, but on a smaller scale. Central & South America to SE Asia in a 20 year period was bloody. Did the USSR do this? They certainly did.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14331
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Aditya_V »

The USSR finally ended up invading a friendly Government in Afganistan in 1979
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by kit »

https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/06/0 ... -pub-84667

IMPORTANCE OF BEING INDIAN
First, the survey asked respondents how important being Indian is to their identity. Overall, 41 percent of respondents rate it as very important and another 37 percent rate it as somewhat important. Taken together, more than three-quarters of Indian Americans place a high value on their “Indian-ness.” Around 22 percent state that their Indian identity is either somewhat or very unimportant.32

One might expect, however, that the importance of a respondent’s Indian identity might vary by their place of birth. For instance, it is plausible that Indian Americans born in the United States would place less emphasis on their “Indian-ness” than their counterparts who immigrated. In fact, that is precisely what the data suggest (see figure 10).

Eighty-three percent of foreign-born Indian Americans claim being Indian is either very or somewhat important to their identity, compared to 70 percent of U.S.-born Indian Americans. The differences are most pronounced among those who say being Indian is very important to them. On the other end of the spectrum, 30 percent of Indian Americans born in the United States answer that being Indian is either somewhat or very unimportant to their identity—a response given by just 17 percent of foreign-born Indian Americans.

Religious affiliation too correlates with one’s feelings toward their Indian identity. Eighty-eight percent of Hindus say being Indian is very or somewhat important to them, compared to 79 percent of Christians and 66 percent of Muslims. This is possibly a reflection of India’s current political climate. The February 2021 IAAS paper found that almost seven in ten Hindus approve of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s performance, while just one in five Muslims feel the same.34 However, without longitudinal data, it is unclear to what extent the religious divide reflects the specificities of the current context—in which Muslims in India feel especially marginalized and discriminated against—or is instead a product of longer-term trends.
sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6088
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

As anecdotal data, much before Modi, I came across a Muslim from India bad mouthing India.

This was in a remote place where the natives had no idea of “what is India”. I understand after 9 11 he was calling himself Indian.
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10032
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

Aditya_V wrote:The USSR finally ended up invading a friendly Government in Afganistan in 1979
Don’t forget Hungary 1956 & Czechoslovakia 1968. For the US the most egregious was Diem in South Vietnam March 1963, JFK Nov. 1963 & Trump 2020-present.
bala
BRFite
Posts: 1975
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by bala »

The US should publicly state that it is no more adhering to one-china policy. Effectively its support to Taiwan indicates that, but a public statement would remove any ambiguity. Breaking the one-china policy would open doors for Tibet and Xinjiang regions. China would then have 3 or more headaches to deal with and keep them in line. India should have mandated that the US Publicly state no more adhering to one-china policy as a condition to joining Quad. India is following One-China policy since the US and others are following them. As soon as US declares no one-china policy all the rest will follow.
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/us/salma ... index.html
Authorities identify suspect who attacked author Salman Rushdie at western New York event
Ray Sanchez, Adam Thomas, Kristina Sgueglia, Samantha Beech, Paul P. Murphy, and Lauren Said-Moorhouse, CNN, Fri August 12, 2022

(CNN)Salman Rushdie -- a celebrated author and winner of the world's top literary prizes whose writings generated death threats -- was attacked and stabbed at least twice on stage Friday before a lecture he was scheduled to give at the Chautauqua Institution in western New York, State Police said.
Rushdie was on a ventilator Friday evening and could not speak, his agent, Andrew Wylie, told the New York Times.
"Salman will likely lose one eye; the nerves in his arm were severed; and his liver was stabbed and damaged," Wylie told the Times. "The news is not good."
The suspect was identified as Hadi Matar, 24, from Fairview, New Jersey, State Police Troop Commander Major Eugene J. Staniszewski said in a Friday evening news conference. Police are working with the FBI and local authorities to determine the motive.
Authorities are also working to obtain search warrants for several items found at the scene, including a backpack and electronic devices, Staniszewski said. Authorities believe the suspect was alone but are investigating "to make sure that was the case," Staniszewski added.
The suspect jumped onto the stage and stabbed Rushdie at least once in the neck and at least once in the abdomen, state police said. Staff and audience members rushed the suspect and put him on the ground before a state trooper took the attacker into custody, police said.
Rushdie was airlifted from a field adjacent to the venue -- in a rural lake resort about 70 miles south of Buffalo -- to a hospital. Rushdie was undergoing surgery at a hospital in northwestern Pennsylvania, Erie Police Department Deputy Chief William Marucci told CNN Friday evening.
........
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/5-facts ... nt-3250932
5 Facts On Hadi Matar, Who Stabbed Salman Rushdie At New York Event
A British citizen of Indian origin - living in the US for the past 20 years - Salman Rushdie has faced threats for decades over his 1988 book, The Satanic Verses.
Arun Nair, August 13, 2022

New Delhi: Author Salman Rushdie is on ventilator and could lose an eye after he underwent surgery following a knife attack at a literary event in New York, US. The attacker has been identified as Hadi Matar, 24, from New Jersey.
......
Gautam
Primus
BRFite
Posts: 1259
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: Ground Zero

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Primus »

UK Guardian says he was born in the US to parents from Yaroun in Southern Lebanon at Ali Tehfe, a small village where they have posters of Khomeini etc. Journalists were not allowed to enter the area.
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by IndraD »

Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy
America's tech giants are taking a modern-day crash course in India's ancient caste system, with Apple (AAPL.O) emerging as an early leader in policies to rid Silicon Valley of a rigid hierarchy that's segregated Indians for generations.

Apple, the world's biggest listed company, updated its general employee conduct policy about two years ago to explicitly prohibit discrimination on the basis of caste, which it added alongside existing categories such as race, religion, gender, age and ancestry.

Advertisement · Scroll to continue
The inclusion of the new category, which hasn't been previously reported, goes beyond U.S. discrimination laws, which do not explicitly ban casteism.

The update came after the tech sector - which counts India as its top source of skilled foreign workers - received a wake-up call in June 2020 when California's employment regulator sued Cisco Systems (CSCO.O) on behalf of a low-caste engineer who accused two higher-caste bosses of blocking his career.
https://www.reuters.com/business/sustai ... 022-08-15/
Post Reply