India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby JE Menon » 19 Jun 2018 01:26

Above NYT story is not conclusive even according to them. "...appears to show" "nearly hit its target" , etc... In fact, considering the number of attacks, the death toll of one due to debris is remarkable.

This is not to say we should go and buy Patriots. I've made my position on that clear above.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby dinesha » 21 Jun 2018 20:04

Road map laid for India-U.S. meet
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/r ... 195118.ece
Experts to allay Indian concerns on defence pacts ahead of July’s 2+2 dialogue
Indian and U.S. experts began a three-day consultations on Monday to find meeting points in bilateral relations in preparation for the first-ever meeting of the Ministers for External Affairs and Defence with their U.S. counterparts next month.

The July meeting in Washington DC between Sushma Swaraj and Nirmala Sitharaman and their U.S. counterparts, called the two-plus-two discussions, is expected to further cement the India-U.S. engagements.

According to officials, among the key focus areas of the meeting that began here on Monday morning is finding a breakthrough in concluding the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA), one of the four foundational agreements that helps the U.S. to intensify its defence cooperation with a partner nation.

Indications emerging from the U.S. side is that they are keen to stress the importance given to India in its Indo-Pacific strategy. The U.S. Pacific Command (PACOM) was recently renamed Indo-Pacific Command (INDOPACOM), symbolic of the significance U.S. attaches to India in the region.

Apart from the foundational agreements, the U.S. is also keen on a broad based intelligence-sharing agreement with India as the two countries have vastly expanded their counter-terror cooperation. In this context, the fourth foundational agreement, Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation (BECA), will be significant.

COMCASA and BECA are the two foundational agreements that India is yet to sign. It has already signed the General Security Of Military Information Agreement (GSOMIA) and the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA). The most significant of them is LEMOA, which gives both nations access to each other’s military facilities. But it does not make it automatic or obligatory.

The U.S. has been engaging India since 2002 on the foundational agreements, but successive governments have been wary of giving in to the U.S. demands.


Sale of drones
The COMCASA will facilitate transfer of encrypted communications systems. The agreements are a key requirement by Washington for sharing h-tech military hardware, especially armed drones which the U.S. is willing to supply to India. Sale of armed drones is high on the agenda of the 2+2 dialogue.

New Delhi has shed its traditional reluctance and has been open to COMCASA, with both sides holding several rounds of discussions in recent times. There have been widespread expectations that a broad understanding could be reached ahead of the 2+2 dialogue.

However, India had concerns on some of the clauses and the language, which both sides would attempt to address in the discussions.

As part of improving high tech cooperation, India and the U.S. announced the ambitious Defence Technology and Trade Initiative and India was designated a major defence partner. But it has not made any progress.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 22 Jun 2018 21:00

Here is tricky dick's explanation. A combination of snake oil salesman and a used car salesman is the only one who could come up with this incredible piece of self serving crap.


Revealed: Why Richard Nixon opposed India during the 1972 war against Pakistan


Revealed: Why Richard Nixon opposed India during the 1972 war against Pakistan


Jun 21, 2018,

Former US president Richard Nixon opposed India in the 1972 war with Pakistan which led to the creation of Bangladesh because he believed India's military action would set a "bad precedent" and endanger the future of any small country, according to the declassified documents of the era.

The latest declassified document disclosed that Nixon made those remarks at a lengthy conversation with the then Japanese Prime Minister Eisaku Sato during their meeting at San Clements in California. As per the documents, Nixon said the US faced a situation in South Asia in which India, a nation of 600 million people with a democratic government moved against Pakistan, a smaller nation with some 60 million people under a military junta."However big and democratic India might be, if it swallows its neighbour with USSR support, the future of any small country is endangered," Nixon said, according to the recorded diplomatic conversation.

However, the Japanese Prime Minister noted that China and the USSR's involvement differed in each case in Vietnam, Korea and India and Pakistan. In particular, there is a glaring difference in approach between the two with respect to the Indo-Pakistan conflict, which he believed could be exploited. He had expected a protracted conflict, but the Indo-Pakistan war ended quickly in a truce.

While Japan wished to cooperate in providing humanitarian aid for international relief for refugees, he felt time would be required before recognising Bangladesh, according to the declassified documents. "The President said that we take a forthcoming view with respect to humanitarian aid, and the Congress is opposed to aid which can be converted to war-like purpose. "He agreed that it would be premature to recognise Bangladesh because it had not yet established a government secure enough to give assurances of its survival. He said that the US would not recognise until the situation clarified," it said.

Nixon then explained his position. "Important as he considers India's survival as a non-Communist nation, we opposed its military action against a neighbour to resolve a political question, not because of any difference in philosophy of government, but because India's actions set a bad precedent," it said. "Therefore, we opposed India and the USSR at the UN. Perhaps, he concluded, lady chiefs of state are dangerous, since both India and Israel have been led in war by women," it said.

The Prime Minister felt it was better when India was completely neutral, but with Soviet support and access across a land frontier, India felt itself strengthened against Pakistan. During the meeting, Nixon reviewed his attempt to work out a settlement on a political basis, including USD 500 million for refugee relief and getting former President of Pakistan Yahya Khan to agree to a unilateral troop withdrawal, but India moved in its own interest.Nixon's National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger reviewed a study which disclosed that the US provided India some USD 2 billion in economic aid since 1965.

During the same period, India purchased USD 800 million worth of arms from the USSR and produced an additional USD 175 million itself. "In effect, he concluded, we financed India's military build-up. During the same period, we provided USD 50 million in aid to Pakistan, which received an additional USD 100 million in military aid from the PRC. This 10 1 increase in military capability gave India an enormous advantage," the declassified document says.

"The President said this rendered ridiculous any charge that Pakistan attacked India; it knew it would lose. It was India that attacked Pakistan, with Soviet assistance," it said.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby dinesha » 23 Jun 2018 13:58

Amid trade war, India offers to buy 1,000 planes, more oil from US
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 705294.cms
NEW DELHI: Amid the ongoing trade war, India is seeking to buy peace with the US by offering to order nearly 1,000 civilian aircraft over the next 7-8 years and step up oil and gas purchase from the world's largest trader. This was conveyed by commerce minister Suresh Prabhu to his US counterpart during their talks last week.
On Sunday, assistant US trade representative Mark Linscott will begin discussions here with commerce ministry officials as both sides try to find solutions to problems on the trade front. India is trying to convince the US that its reciprocal tariffs are part of a WTO-sanctioned right after the US took the first step with steel and aluminium duties. India is keen to see some resolution before the 2+2 talks + between foreign minister Sushma Swaraj and defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman and their US counterparts - secretary of state Mike Pompeo and defence secretary James Mattis, respectively - in Washington on July 6.
India has calculated that it will be paying about $5 billion a year for aircraft and about $4 billion for purchase of oil and gas from the US. This is apart from defence purchases + where India is now looking at buying 12 more naval surveillance aircraft P8i. India is now the largest owner of these aircraft outside the US.
India and the US are working on the next foundational agreement - the communications compatibility and security agreement - which may be inked in the coming months. This comes after the logistics exchange memorandum of agreement was operationalised last year, leaving only the basic exchange and cooperation agreement to be signed between the two countries.
Sitharaman will also make a visit to the US's recently renamed Indo-Pacific Command in Hawaii. While the defence and security relationships have improved enormously, some gaps still remain. According to Indian officials, these could get wider if the US were to slap CAATSA + (Countering America's Adversaries through Sanctions Act) sanctions on India for buying defence equipment from Russia. That is likely to dominate discussions during the coming dialogue.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vips » 25 Jun 2018 09:44

India-US strategic partnership set for new high with deals and drills.

The strategic clinch with the US is set to get even tighter, with India signaling its readiness to ink two more bilateral military pacts, procure helicopters worth $3 billion and participate in a joint tri-Service amphibious exercise for the first time.
Top government sources say “substantial progress” has now been made towards finalizing the Communications, Compatibility and Security Arrangement (COMCASA)+ and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA) between the two countries.

The previous UPA regime had stonewalled all attempts by the US to push for the inking of the three so-called “foundational military agreements” during its 10-year tenure on the ground that it would “compromise the strategic autonomy” of India. But the NDA government went ahead and inked the first one on reciprocal logistics support -- Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA) — with India-specific safeguards in 2016.+

Now, the stage is being set for the other two, COMCASA and BECA, which the US contends will allow India more access to advanced military technologies and platforms with encrypted communications like Predator-B and MQ-9 Reaper drones, as was earlier reported by TOI.

“The broad contours of COMCASA have been finalized…only some text-based negotiations are left. The BECA draft is also under discussion. We have insisted on India-specific assurances, much like what was done in LEMOA, and a status on par with its closest allies,” said a source.

This comes ahead of the first India-US “two-plus-two” dialogue between foreign minister Sushma Swaraj and defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman with their American counterparts, Mike Pompeo and Jim Mattis, in Washington on July 6.

Sources say the two countries have also decided to hold their first-ever mega tri-Service amphibious exercise to supplement the flurry of wargames they already hold every year from the top-notch naval Malabar (with Japan as the third participant) to the counter-terror Vajra Prahar and Yudh Abhyas between their armies.

This will be only the second time India will deploy assets and manpower from its Army, Navy and IAF together for an exercise with a foreign country, after the Indra wargames were held with Russia at Vladivostok last year.

The US, of course, remains keen to make further inroads into the lucrative Indian arms market, having already bagged deals worth $15 billion over the last decade. While the US hard-sell to set up a F/A-18 “Super Hornet” or a F-16 fighter production line in India in still in a preliminary stage, India has virtually finalized the acquisition of six more Boeing Apache attack helicopters for $930 million and 24 Sikorsky S-70B multi-role naval choppers with potent anti-submarine warfare capabilities for around $2 billion.

The IAF, incidentally, is slated to induct 12 Apache attack helicopters and 15 Chinook heavy-lift choppers in the 2019-2020 timeframe under the contracts inked for them, worth Rs 13,952 crore and Rs 8,048 crore respectively, in September 2015.

India, however, remains miffed about the new US sanctions regime called CAATSA (Countering America’s Adversaries through Sanction Act) that targets countries buying weapon systems from Russia. As reported earlier by TOI, India and Russia are working to get around CAATSA because they have new defence projects worth over $12 billion hanging in the balance as well as the operational need to maintain the huge inventory of Russian-origin equipment held by the Indian armed forces.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Dileep » 25 Jun 2018 18:37

How can the govt decide to buy 1000 airliners from USA? Only Air Parasite need to abide by govt decision. The other airlines buy planes from whoever sell with the best terms.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Jun 2018 20:27

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 757345.cms
From November, we will sanction all companies, including Indian ones, that buy Iranian crude oil: US
Shailaja Neelakantan | TIMESOFINDIA.COM | Updated: Jun 27, 2018
NEW DELHI: The US said today that companies that buy Iranian crude oil after this coming November will face sanctions by Washington, and this will apply to Chinese and Indian companies as well.
Companies in US partner countries around the world must completely end such imports if they want to avoid sanctions, said a senior US State Department official today. These US decisions come in the wake of the US reinstating financial sanctions on Iran + after Washington in May pulled out of the nuclear deal with Iran. Some US Sanctions take effect from August 6, others, including those affecting the oil sector, will be effective from November.
Iran is India's third-largest oil supplier behind Iraq and Saudi Arabia. It supplied 18.4 million tonnes of crude oil during April 2017 and January 2018 (first 10 months of 2017-18 fiscal).
.....
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 27 Jun 2018 22:59

2+2 dialogue postponed by gotus

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Jun 2018 23:29

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-post ... 74315?stky
US Postpones High-Level Dialogue With India Due To "Unavoidable Reasons"
All India | NDTV News Desk (with inputs from PTI) | Updated: June 27, 2018
NEW DELHI: The United States has postponed the high-level "2+2 dialogue" it was meant to hold with India next week in Washington.
US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo spoke with Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj and expressed regret over the dialogue postponement, foreign ministry spokesperson Raveesh Kumar tweeted.
They agreed to identify new mutually convenient dates to hold the Dialogue at the earliest, in India or the US, he added.
Ms Swaraj and Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman were to hold talks with their American counterparts Mike Pompeo and James Mattis next week which experts hoped would have helped change the current narrative surrounding the bilateral relationship amid economic and trade issues.
.....
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 28 Jun 2018 03:34

Note that a last-minute postponement (1 week's notice) of a very high level strategic dialogue (just one level below a PM-POTUS summit) essentially amounts to Trump Sarkar spitting in India's face.

On June 11, Trump signaled that he is targeting his trade war against India as well, accusing India of "charging 100% tarriffs on US imports".

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 134540.ece

He also made a reference to India, indicating that his grievances on tariffs was not restricted to the developed economies alone. “This isn’t just G7. I mean, we have India, where some of the tariffs are 100 per cent. A hundred per cent. And we charge nothing. We can’t do that. And so we are talking to many countries,” Trump said.

Trump has repeatedly raked up the issue of India imposing high import duty on the iconic Harley-Davidson motorcycles and threatened to increase the import tariff on “thousands and thousands” of Indian motorcycles to the US.


This comes at the same time when Trump has done a sudden about-turn and downhill-ski with respect to China, backing off on his threats of a trade war against PRC:

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/6/27/175 ... nt-mnuchin

Earlier this week reports indicated that Trump was on the verge of using emergency presidential powers to issue an order to dramatically restrict Chinese investment in US businesses. The Treasury Department was reportedly looking into rules that would block firms with at least 25 percent Chinese ownership from investing in US companies with “industrially significant technology.”

The goal is to make it harder for China to acquire important technology used to manufacture things like robotics, aerospace and aviation equipment, clean energy cars, and medical equipment. Experts say China currently sees buying technology from American companies as a key strategy for developing its own manufacturing capacities.

But Trump is now refraining from going down that path. Instead, he’s going to allow new legislation moving through Congress to enhance the currently-existing review process for foreign investment in US companies.

It seems that Trump’s sudden change of heart is due to the influence of US Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who has won out over China hawks in the White House like trade adviser Peter Navarro. Mnuchin has been trying to persuade the president to take a more careful approach to prodding Beijing into changing some of its controversial trade and investment practices.


The simplistic amateur analyst sees Trump-vs-Deep State in the same light as the popular US media represents it. He takes it at face value that there is a state of perpetual head-on confrontation sustaining an unbridgeable policy divide between Trump Sarkar and the US Deep State. This is, quite frankly, nonsense.

Trump's involvement in Syria is quite in tune with the US Deep State's wishes. His *actions* (as opposed to words) regarding China reflect a willingness to achieve quiet compromise with the Deep State's interests, despite all the loud bluster. The elevation of Mike Pompeo as SOS (after Tillerson's exit) has harmonized Trump's agenda with Deep State perceptions to a substantial extent. SOD James Mattis was always a Deep State voice in the administration.

It should be no surprise at all that Trump is proving to be equally China-pasand, and as much anti-India, as a Hillary Clinton administration would have been. He is just using a different facade, a different rhetorical style to couch his policy initiatives... the finger-wagging moral superiority of the headmistress has been replaced by the foul-mouthed braggadocio of the truck driver. But the initiatives and priorities themselves are very much the same.

Watch for things to get much worse. Trump Sarkar wants Modi gone in 2019, every bit as much as Clinton Sarkar would have. International pressure on J&K will build up, the "Womens' Rights" pot has already been stirred (see the Thompson-Reuters "poll" released yesterday that names India as the most dangerous country in the world for women). The Social Justice dobermans who were at least internally-directed to some extent under Obama, have been given free rein by Trump Sarkar to continue their campaigns... as long as the attacks are exclusively against countries like India, whom the US Deep State has always regarded as an enemy.

There will be no 2+2 dialogue until GE 2019. Unlike with China, Trump will push ahead on trade war against India, including tariffs on Indian exports to the US and sanctions under CAATSA. Whatever can be done to slow India's economic growth and impose short-term hardship will be done. The US Deep State's primary objective is to see another pliable Mahathugbandhan regime in India as of next year, and Trump Sarkar is very much on board with this objective.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Jun 2018 07:05

The big road blocks are the tariffs, Iran sanctions and CAATSA. The Trump administration has no solutions being proposed to India for those. The GoI is particularly soured about the approach to tariffs. Any delay in the 2+2 meeting will only delay India signing COMCASA and BECA. Subsequently, purchases from Boeing and General Atomics will be postponed. These sales are worth more than the sales of Harley Davidson motorcycles and agricultural products to India. In this instance, both Boeing and General Atomics should apply pressure on the administration.

The exact reason for the postponement of the 2+2 is not clear. The Trump administration is in somewhat disarray, as always, but it has been speculated that all of the minions are at work for the Trump-Putin summit on 15 July in Vienna. The noose around Iran is being tightened and Iran may be backed into war which the neocons like Pompeo and Bolton hope for.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 28 Jun 2018 07:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 28 Jun 2018 07:11

Mort Walker wrote:The big road blocks are the tariffs, Iran sanctions and CAATSA. The Trump administration has no solutions being proposed to India for those. The GoI is particularly soured about the approach to tariffs. Any delay in the 2+2 meeting will only delay India signing COMCASA and BECA. Subsequently, purchases from Boeing and General Atomics will be postponed. These sales are worth more than the sales of Harley Davidson motorcycles and agricultural products to India. In this instance, both Boeing and General Atomics should apply pressure on the administration.


They are not road block they are tools employed , in other words "Chopping blocks" tried to contain or derail natural Indian progression to the top ( I say tried because in today's world there no single super powaa left those days are gone ).

We do not want this cr@p anymore, and please suggest boeing and general atomics to not apply pressure and continue muscle approach to shove down the throats that was tried in 20th century and hope that it will work. We do not want any of their malwares.

Indian strategic interests do not align with that of US period.
Last edited by krishna_krishna on 28 Jun 2018 08:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Jun 2018 07:16

^^^Platforms like the P-8I the IN is using are very effective and the IN wants 12 more systems.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 28 Jun 2018 07:20

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Platforms like the P-8I the IN is using are very effective and the IN wants 12 more systems.


In other words they are merchandise or malwares charged at premium which are paid by cash (using hard earned money of Indian citizens) and not donated to countries likes terroristan where us taxpayer money is used, they are excellent wares however invisibility of those merchandise is questionable in today's day and age. Nothing that we can not live without or not available elsewhere for a price. Tu-22m, Saab 200, c-295, AN-94 list is endless it all boils down to sensor suite. May be its not the best but nothing that we cannot live without or not unobtainum.

So you are saying just to buy such expensive merchandise have partnership with a declining world power and take a lot of crap and go down back while you are already on a growth trajectory while massa is on downward "tragic -tory" ?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 28 Jun 2018 07:47

Mort Walker wrote:The big road blocks are the tariffs, Iran sanctions and CAATSA.

Roadblocks imply a there is a path one is looking to go down. Where do you think that path leads to?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Jun 2018 08:29

krishna_krishna wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:^^^Platforms like the P-8I the IN is using are very effective and the IN wants 12 more systems.


In other words they are merchandise or malwares charged at premium which are paid by cash (using hard earned money of Indian citizens) and not donated to countries likes terroristan where us taxpayer money is used, they are excellent wares however invisibility of those merchandise is questionable in today's day and age. Nothing that we can not live without or not available elsewhere for a price. Tu-22m, Saab 200, c-295, AN-94 list is endless it all boils down to sensor suite. May be its not the best but nothing that we cannot live without or not unobtainum.

So you are saying just to buy such expensive merchandise have partnership with a declining world power and take a lot of crap and go down back while you are already on a growth trajectory while massa is on downward "tragic -tory" ?


Please spare me your anal-ysis.
* Mort Walker, rebut him analytically rather than like this - Admin *

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 28 Jun 2018 10:56

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 138_1.html
India, US agree to reschedule 2+2 dialogue, Pompeo expresses deep regret
Swaraj and Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman were earlier scheduled to travel to the US to take part in the meeting with Pompeo and Secretary of Defence James Mattis on July 6
Press Trust of India | Washington June 28, 2018 08:26 IST
......
The decision to postpone the maiden 2+2 dialogue between the two countries has come as a disappointment for India watchers in the American think-tank community.
"The postponement is disappointing," Jeff Smith from Heritage Foundation, a think-tank close to the ruling Republican establishment told PTI.
"It is not so pleasing to see the 2+2 being called off. I believe the Trump administration is distracted with a summit with President Putin," Bharat Gopalaswamy from the Atlantic Council said.
"Like the summit with North Korea, they believe they might be able to advance their relations with Russia, whatever that means in tangible terms. The US' relations with Russia have deteriorated significantly over the last 18 months and I believe the Trump administration might be able to turn around a corner with one of US's significant adversaries," he said.
"So as far as I can understand, this is a very distracted administration but Trump has always had a fascination for Russia, Mr. Putin and the US being able to strike some sort of a deal with Russia. And that's where he has set his focus right now," Gopalaswamy said in response to a question.
"I also do not think buying arms would be a concern for Trump administration. If that were the reason, why would Trump be focused on a summit with Russia?" he asked.
.....
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby habal » 28 Jun 2018 11:05

India should ask US to return all spies including Rabinder Singh, David Coleman Headley, Tahawwur Rana, Ashok Sathe, Sikandar Lal Malik, N. Y. Bhaskar. Also give them a deadline.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 28 Jun 2018 11:27

nikki haley has started to whine about the "importance" of religious freedom in India.

The US is not neutral in this matter but follows the congi line very strongly.

That she has done this during her India visit is reprehensible and unpardonable.



On the first day of her three-day tour, Nikki Haley, the US Ambassador to the United Nations, underscored the importance of religious freedom in a democracy. “We think freedom of religion is just as important as freedom of rights and freedom of people...


https://www.deccanherald.com/national/nikki-asserts-importance-677514.html

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Austin » 28 Jun 2018 17:59

US Envoy Nikki Haley Speaks To NDTV On Iran, 2+2 Summit: Highlights

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-envo ... rpush=true

Here are the highlights of her interview with NDTV.

On the postponement of "2+2 summit", she says it won't affect US-India ties. "There is a good reason that Modi and Sushma (Swaraj) know of. There are already talking about rescheduling." She dismissed that the postponement was a snub to India.

Nikki Haley, speaking to Nidhi Razdan on US-Iran ties and role of India in the bigger picture, said: "We have seen several violations that Iran was not following rules. Iran was violating use of balistic weapons. We should all re-think who we want to do business with. Modi and me spoke about it. The fact that India cannot change its relations with Iran in a day, I suggested looking at other options."

"We do not take the relations with Russia and India lightly. We have multiple things to look at with respect to US-Russia relations, Election meddling," she told NDTV.

Asserting that "freedom of religion was important", she said, "India, US and everyone should respect religious sentiments and faiths. It needs to be protected. I don't think India alone needs to be reminded. Countries are falling apart and freedom of religion should take this into account."

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 28 Jun 2018 20:50

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Platforms like the P-8I the IN is using are very effective and the IN wants 12 more systems.


IN wants 30 P8Is .
Are they a navy or an airforce?
What submarines are they hunting with these 30 P8Is?
Chinese conventional or nuclear ballistic missile subs?
A P8I is much more capable plane then the Il-38 mays or the Tu-104 long range patrol aircraft.
How many of those were in IN rolls?

INS Rajali is being taken over by Boeing workmen.

Not good. What devices they will embed.?

One thing pigeon needs to strengthen is military intelligence and military police capabilities for counter espionage.

Too many honey trapped folks on Facebook chat!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 28 Jun 2018 20:59

Austin wrote:US Envoy Nikki Haley Speaks To NDTV On Iran, 2+2 Summit: Highlights

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-envo ... rpush=true

Here are the highlights of her interview with NDTV.

On the postponement of "2+2 summit", she says it won't affect US-India ties. "There is a good reason that Modi and Sushma (Swaraj) know of. There are already talking about rescheduling." She dismissed that the postponement was a snub to India.

Nikki Haley, speaking to Nidhi Razdan on US-Iran ties and role of India in the bigger picture, said: "We have seen several violations that Iran was not following rules. Iran was violating use of balistic weapons. We should all re-think who we want to do business with. Modi and me spoke about it. The fact that India cannot change its relations with Iran in a day, I suggested looking at other options."

"We do not take the relations with Russia and India lightly. We have multiple things to look at with respect to US-Russia relations, Election meddling," she told NDTV.

Asserting that "freedom of religion was important", she said, "India, US and everyone should respect religious sentiments and faiths. It needs to be protected. I don't think India alone needs to be reminded. Countries are falling apart and freedom of religion should take this into account."



None of those violations are UN General Assy or Security Council resolutions or sanctions.
And India-Iran oil trade is in rupees. And that cuts out Dollar middlemen and US banking system.
Chahbahar is a port developed by India as a gateway to Central Asia and Afghanistan.
To demand India abandon it for whimsical tirades is useless.
And moreover same US could make up with Iran tomorrow as its in a transactional mode.
Look at example of North Korea.


I think Nikki mem came to deliver some other message to Modi about Russia, China, and US.

All rest is fluff.

Namo Met informally two times with Xi Jinping. No notes.
Namo met Putin same way one time. No notes.
All we can do is speculate what was the complete agenda.

DT met Xi Jinpeng quite a few times.
DT is meeting Putin soon.
Now DT sends Nikki to meet Modi among other things.

Then there is Abe's Japan.

These are the dots.

We can do a bubble chart with arrows for these meetings and may be that will make the picture emerge.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Jun 2018 21:34

ramana wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:^^^Platforms like the P-8I the IN is using are very effective and the IN wants 12 more systems.


IN wants 30 P8Is .
Are they a navy or an airforce?
What submarines are they hunting with these 30 P8Is?
Chinese conventional or nuclear ballistic missile subs?
A P8I is much more capable plane then the Il-38 mays or the Tu-104 long range patrol aircraft.
How many of those were in IN rolls?

INS Rajali is being taken over by Boeing workmen.

Not good. What devices they will embed.?

One thing pigeon needs to strengthen is military intelligence and military police capabilities for counter espionage.

Too many honey trapped folks on Facebook chat!


The P-8I is not just an ASW platform, but an overall surveillance platform for the IOR. From a defensive surveillance platform with its sensor suite, there is nothing else like it.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby RoyG » 28 Jun 2018 22:22

24 P8I will give us an edge over China in IOR. Coupled with newly inducted submarines and surface fleet coordinating activities with countries like USA, Japan, SK, Philippines, and Australia we will be able to effectively deter China.

USA in the meantime is trying to strong arm India into cutting oil imports from Iran in an attempt to save petrodollar and starting tariff tamasha. It is also trying to scuttle s400 deal. RBI has also been forced to let rupee slide to 68.

USA is doing all this bs b/c it knows elections are around the corner. State Dept and POTUS now throwing around idea of sanctions and it thinks it can influence PMO.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Jun 2018 22:50

RoyG wrote:USA is doing all this bs b/c it knows elections are around the corner. State Dept and POTUS now throwing around idea of sanctions and it thinks it can influence PMO[/b].


Looks like it is working, there is already a report out by nidhi Verma for Reuters starting that India is working on reducing Iranian oil imports. Opec and SA will turn up the production soon to compensate.

mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JO18L


My take is that there is something going on behind the scenes between US, RUS, CHN, and India. Nikki states that the 2+2 was cancelled for a very good reason which had nothing to do with India and which shall soon come to light.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 29 Jun 2018 02:02

chetak wrote:nikki haley has started to whine about the "importance" of religious freedom in India.

The US is not neutral in this matter but follows the congi line very strongly.

That she has done this during her India visit is reprehensible and unpardonable.



On the first day of her three-day tour, Nikki Haley, the US Ambassador to the United Nations, underscored the importance of religious freedom in a democracy. “We think freedom of religion is just as important as freedom of rights and freedom of people...


https://www.deccanherald.com/national/nikki-asserts-importance-677514.html



twitter

Ya, look at the irony. @nikkihaley who had to change her religion to make it in American Politics talks about inter faith relations in India. Irony just got vetoed in UNGA

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby RoyG » 29 Jun 2018 02:29

Cain Marko wrote:
RoyG wrote:USA is doing all this bs b/c it knows elections are around the corner. State Dept and POTUS now throwing around idea of sanctions and it thinks it can influence PMO[/b].


Looks like it is working, there is already a report out by nidhi Verma for Reuters starting that India is working on reducing Iranian oil imports. Opec and SA will turn up the production soon to compensate.

mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JO18L


My take is that there is something going on behind the scenes between US, RUS, CHN, and India. Nikki states that the 2+2 was cancelled for a very good reason which had nothing to do with India and which shall soon come to light.


It works both ways. India is a powerful swing state. My guess is only a few platforms like P8I and a few others will be linked to US global communication network. I honestly don't know why SJha and a few others are getting so worked up. If you want to play this game against a powerful state like China, you have to get some partners like US on board.

It'll also be a while before India gets its act together. Blame politics, nehruvian culture, w/e but we simply don't have what it takes yet to be world beaters.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 29 Jun 2018 02:51

ramana wrote:
I think Nikki mem came to deliver some other message to Modi about Russia, China, and US.

All rest is fluff.

Namo Met informally two times with Xi Jinping. No notes.
Namo met Putin same way one time. No notes.
All we can do is speculate what was the complete agenda.

DT met Xi Jinpeng quite a few times.
DT is meeting Putin soon.
Now DT sends Nikki to meet Modi among other things.

Then there is Abe's Japan.

These are the dots.

We can do a bubble chart with arrows for these meetings and may be that will make the picture emerge.


What is more interesting to me than the bubbles are the ones conspicuously left off the table.

1) G-7 (minus USA). This is mainly Canada and EU. Abe may or may not have spared himself some of DT's ire by distancing himself from Merkel, Macron, May and Trudeau. But Japan is no longer getting the primacy it used to enjoy in US foreign policy, definitely not since the DT-KJU summit.

2) GCC-Israel combine. In a sense, the embroilment of GCC in Syria and Yemen has effectively "contained" Saudi ambitions to its own region (by comparison with the Bill Clinton and GW Bush eras, when they were sitting pretty and exporting Wahhabi ideology as the chief instrument of foreign policy). Israel also has decided to play its cards, joining in the action in Syria directly, instead of simply sitting back and watching Iran and GCC go at each other in a proxy war.

3) Turkey.

4) Iran. This is the only "expected" omission among geopolitical hotspots of the day.

5) Other Indo-Pacific powers, including Indonesia and Vietnam. South Korea and Taiwan also have been taken for granted, and the Philippines virtually written off.

Still other groups have been left off the table, of course, including Central Asian, Southeast Asian, African and Latin American states, but this is not remarkable as they are seen more as great-power spheres of influence rather than players in their own right.

I am also not sure in what capacity Nikki Haley was sent to India. As US Ambassador to the UN? Or as a sort of parallel Secretary of State? (Reportedly she fulfilled this role during Tillerson's tenure at Foggy Bottom, much to Tillerson's chagrin... maybe Pompeo has been ordered to share foreign policy duties with her?)

It would fit in with what we know about DT's negotiating style to have two separate underlings saying two different things to different parties. Right now NATO and Putin are getting the "asli" SOS and India is getting (in lieu of 2 + 2 talks) the "naqli" quasi-SOS. So reversing assurances and commitments made to us will be easier than reversing them with respect to Russia or China... and will be contingent on the outcomes of "asli" SOS' interactions with Moscow and Beijing.

We can hope for the best i.e. that Trump reaches a rapprochement with Putin such that CAATSA becomes a non-issue for us. But we are clearly a "secondary" player in the US' eyes... US policy towards India will be reactive to and dependent upon the outcomes of its policy initiatives towards Russia and China, not the other way round.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 29 Jun 2018 03:02

Rudradev wrote:We can hope for the best i.e. that Trump reaches a rapprochement with Putin such that CAATSA becomes a non-issue for us. But we are clearly a "secondary" player in the US' eyes... US policy towards India will be reactive to and dependent upon the outcomes of its policy initiatives towards Russia and China, not the other way round.


Rdevji, how does Iran fall into this puzzle in your opinion. Nikki ben gave diktat of staying away from any dealings or else face the sanctions.

We need Iran and more importantly chabahar do you think EA ministry will show spine to stand up for our interests ?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krisna » 29 Jun 2018 03:30

Rudradev wrote:<snip>
I am also not sure in what capacity Nikki Haley was sent to India. As US Ambassador to the UN? Or as a sort of parallel Secretary of State? (Reportedly she fulfilled this role during Tillerson's tenure at Foggy Bottom, much to Tillerson's chagrin... maybe Pompeo has been ordered to share foreign policy duties with her?) <snip>


Not adding anything substantial to your post except a small part.

Nikki haley came to India just because of her Indianness.
westerners try to employ the locals(Indo americans) to give good or bad news to make the locals(Indians) agree.
They have been doing this for long. Nothing new.
Earlier there were not many who could fit the bill in higher echelons of gotus. But in the recent decade lot of Indian americans are coming into their own. Hence this small addition.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Prithwiraj » 29 Jun 2018 03:33

It is not that Iran has been overtly loving and caring towards India - especially with regard to Kashmir issue and also inviting investment from China for Chabahar port...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krisna » 29 Jun 2018 03:41

Rudradev wrote:We can hope for the best i.e. that Trump reaches a rapprochement with Putin such that CAATSA becomes a non-issue for us. But we are clearly a "secondary" player in the US' eyes... US policy towards India will be reactive to and dependent upon the outcomes of its policy initiatives towards Russia and China, not the other way round.


MIC in usa will not allow this. If russia becomes friends , then over 40 states will suffer. MIC is spread virtually in entire USA. Defence budget is >>660 billions(more than next 15 countries defence budgets)

OTOH till some other worthwhile power usurps that role of russia ,rapproachment will not happen.

Only 2 large populous non abrahamic countries fit the bill of large countries which can challenge in coming decades. (or probably rather made into one with atrocity literature)


Entire history of usa is built on this narrative of some enemy etc.

(bedrock is judoechristianity which has the same narrative of good vs evil satan/non abrahamics)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 29 Jun 2018 04:34

Krisna, three things.
1) China is still there, even if rapprochement with Roos is reached by Washington. It has been projected as an adversary since the Obama "Pivot to Asia" days. As its power increases its profile as a military threat will only become more publicized.
2) Roos can be projected as "enemy" to the American taxpayer (hence empowering MIC) EVEN if in reality Roos and GOTUS are pretty much aligned in their worldview and pose no threat to each other, as determined by compacts at the highest level. The litmus test of this eventuality will be if US media continues harping about Russia's fantastic new ICBMs and nuclear torpedoes, etc. while things like CAATSA (which US public pays no attention to) are allowed to fall by the wayside.
3) Trump is coming up with all kinds of other blue-sky nonsense for MIC to spend $$ on. Recently he talked about a "Space Force" :D

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krisna » 29 Jun 2018 04:57

^^^^
same as I have said but in different versions.
Recall roman christianity and Slavic christianity are making love affairs towards rapprochement.
IOW these 2 adversaries(usa-ross) will come together and 2 large non Abrahamics will become the new evil satans ripe for ............ etc etc . atrocity literature will come in handy in years to come.

BTW roos population is under enormous strain with christian folks asking for increase in number of children in roos. IOW again roos will decline in influence despite having large military infrastructure.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 29 Jun 2018 04:59

Rudradev wrote:We can hope for the best i.e. that Trump reaches a rapprochement with Putin such that CAATSA becomes a non-issue for us. But we are clearly a "secondary" player in the US' eyes... US policy towards India will be reactive to and dependent upon the outcomes of its policy initiatives towards Russia and China, not the other way round.


krishna_krishna wrote:Rdevji, how does Iran fall into this puzzle in your opinion. Nikki ben gave diktat of staying away from any dealings or else face the sanctions.

We need Iran and more importantly chabahar do you think EA ministry will show spine to stand up for our interests ?


Iran (and Turkey) are envisaged by Steve Bannon as cornerstones of a new bloc that will be led by China.

Trump, being a hopelessly corrupt individual, is constrained by how much economic pain he can inflict on China vs. the profit motive for his khaandaani interests (witness the ZTE about-turn and the more recent "trade war" downhill-skiing). The pro-globalist Deep-Staters in Trump sarkar (Mnuchin, Mattis, and probably Pompeo) recognize that Trump's corrupt personal interests are in tune with traditional globalist Deep-State interests. So they will move him away from confrontation with China using this as a carrot. Meanwhile people like Peter Navarro, Wilbur Ross, Steve Miller etc. will push Trump towards confrontation with China (with Bannon's worldview as their guiding beacon).

In turn, the Neo-Wilsonian Deep-Staters will try to forge a compromise: let the hardcore Jacksonian Trumpists (Steve Miller, John Kelly and others of their ilk) enjoy unhindered power to clamp down on domestic issues (immigration, gay rights, affirmative action, abortion, gun issues etc.) but leave foreign policy and international trade policy to be run by the traditional Deep-State establishment. This is what I think is going on in Washington.

Given this handicap (the fact that globalist Deep-Staters continue to intervene on China's side), the US will find it very difficult to pry China away from Turkey and Iran, or anybody else. China sees itself as rising, sees America (accurately) as failing, and will be in no mood to make compromises like in the Deng/Jiang/Hu era. They will demand their cake and eat it too. The side effect of this is that Iran will become more beholden to China, hence less likely to collaborate with India in ways that discomfit China's poodles (namely Bakistan).

As far as our own relations with Iran are concerned, first I'd like to say that I avoid talking in terms of "showing spine" because that is unnecessarily applying perceptional constraints on HOW the GOI does things, rather than WHAT they do. It is perfectly possible to pursue our interests in Iran 100% while showing a big smile and pehle-aap tehzeeb to the Americans. The Americans don't really have that much leverage over us-- they are threatening tariffs against India, CAATSA sanctions against India, and all manner of punitive measures in any case, so what more are they going to throw at us if we continue dealing with Iran? India and Iran will continue to trade in non-dollar currencies. If India's engagement with Iran turns out to disappoint, it will be more a function of Iran doing China's bidding than India being pressured by the Americans. JMT.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pravula » 29 Jun 2018 05:02

Rudradev wrote:Krisna, three things.
1) China is still there, even if rapprochement with Roos is reached by Washington. It has been projected as an adversary since the Obama "Pivot to Asia" days. As its power increases its profile as a military threat will only become more publicized.
2) Roos can be projected as "enemy" to the American taxpayer (hence empowering MIC) EVEN if in reality Roos and GOTUS are pretty much aligned in their worldview and pose no threat to each other, as determined by compacts at the highest level. The litmus test of this eventuality will be if US media continues harping about Russia's fantastic new ICBMs and nuclear torpedoes, etc. while things like CAATSA (which US public pays no attention to) are allowed to fall by the wayside.
3) Trump is coming up with all kinds of other blue-sky nonsense for MIC to spend $$ on. Recently he talked about a "Space Force" :D


He didn't just talk, he signed an executive order ordering DoD to establishing a sixth military branch

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/president-trump-directs-pentagon-defense-department-to-immediately-being-the-process-of-establishing-space-force-as-sixth-military-branch.html

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 29 Jun 2018 05:08

RD, it's not nonsense. Wish you think.deeper. Most likely all those black projects are ready for diplay. Toeffler in Future Shock writes about 5gon plans to occupy nodal points in space.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 29 Jun 2018 06:40

Rudradev wrote:
krishna_krishna wrote:Rdevji, how does Iran fall into this puzzle in your opinion. Nikki ben gave diktat of staying away from any dealings or else face the sanctions.

We need Iran and more importantly chabahar do you think EA ministry will show spine to stand up for our interests ?


Iran (and Turkey) are envisaged by Steve Bannon as cornerstones of a new bloc that will be led by China.


Given this handicap (the fact that globalist Deep-Staters continue to intervene on China's side), the US will find it very difficult to pry China away from Turkey and Iran, or anybody else. China sees itself as rising, sees America (accurately) as failing, and will be in no mood to make compromises like in the Deng/Jiang/Hu era. They will demand their cake and eat it too. The side effect of this is that Iran will become more beholden to China, hence less likely to collaborate with India in ways that discomfit China's poodles (namely Bakistan).

As far as our own relations with Iran are concerned, first I'd like to say that I avoid talking in terms of "showing spine" because that is unnecessarily applying perceptional constraints on HOW the GOI does things, rather than WHAT they do. It is perfectly possible to pursue our interests in Iran 100% while showing a big smile and pehle-aap tehzeeb to the Americans. The Americans don't really have that much leverage over us-- they are threatening tariffs against India, CAATSA sanctions against India, and all manner of punitive measures in any case, so what more are they going to throw at us if we continue dealing with Iran? India and Iran will continue to trade in non-dollar currencies. If India's engagement with Iran turns out to disappoint, it will be more a function of Iran doing China's bidding than India being pressured by the Americans. JMT.


Awesome as usual , I agree this is how it will pan out. However with above said here is how I Interpret it :

1) Massa being numero uno till recent past did not expect (in last decade) to see two enemies so quickly rising up : 1) Roos and China

Roos because they thought they broke the back and with oookraine, cryme a and syria has demonstrated it has military might and will to protect its interests in ways umrika never expected or felt an challenge from unexpected quarters

Chin because they did not expect them to start enforcing their will (like you said demand their cake and eat it) so early they were expecting + 2022 time frame.

==> So now they have a situation were they see two players at the table. Using game theory I would say idea would be to have one of them pushed away from the table.

2) Will that be Russ or Chin. They seem to be willing to co-operate (with blessings of deep state) with Chinkis with back door deals to make sure Roos is not the one at table. And take care of chinkis later

3) But with Xi it has shown there is a fraction in Chinese top circle that believes we can co-operate with Ruskies and get massa off the table. And take care of ruskies later

==> Which one of the above will come out depends on :

a. Massa willing to give what concessions to chinkis
b. Where willl chinkis see or hedge their bets

4) With this triangle. I believe given us deep state history of enmity with Russia and Soviet Union they will be willing to go with china

5) But Russia wants to have china and India in one gang and take on massa forever.

==> I believe China will choose to join Russia and India, there have been plenty examples in action to prove this.

Now so if China goes with Iran and turkey , that means automatically Israel and S. Arabia would be in opposite camps meaning US

Our dealings with Iran has to be like you said temporarily , I believe till we get POK back.

India I see going alone with an alliance of small but strategic partners (not to small countries at the same time with strategic real estate across the Indian/Pacific Ocean) that will form an independent block in the long term. Will go with Chinks and roosi's to counter massa and Chinese would not be a threat to India in the near future (next 10 years),

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Jun 2018 09:04

RoyG wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:
Looks like it is working, there is already a report out by nidhi Verma for Reuters starting that India is working on reducing Iranian oil imports. Opec and SA will turn up the production soon to compensate.



My take is that there is something going on behind the scenes between US, RUS, CHN, and India. Nikki states that the 2+2 was cancelled for a very good reason which had nothing to do with India and which shall soon come to light.


It works both ways. India is a powerful swing state. My guess is only a few platforms like P8I and a few others will be linked to US global communication network. I honestly don't know why SJha and a few others are getting so worked up. If you want to play this game against a powerful state like China, you have to get some partners like US on board.

It'll also be a while before India gets its act together. Blame politics, nehruvian culture, w/e but we simply don't have what it takes yet to be world beaters.

Have to agree, this has to be navigated delicately.....

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Avarachan » 29 Jun 2018 09:27

Austin wrote:US Envoy Nikki Haley Speaks To NDTV On Iran, 2+2 Summit: Highlights

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-envo ... rpush=true

Here are the highlights of her interview with NDTV.

On the postponement of "2+2 summit", she says it won't affect US-India ties. "There is a good reason that Modi and Sushma (Swaraj) know of. There are already talking about rescheduling." She dismissed that the postponement was a snub to India.

Nikki Haley, speaking to Nidhi Razdan on US-Iran ties and role of India in the bigger picture, said: "We have seen several violations that Iran was not following rules. Iran was violating use of balistic weapons. We should all re-think who we want to do business with. Modi and me spoke about it. The fact that India cannot change its relations with Iran in a day, I suggested looking at other options."

"We do not take the relations with Russia and India lightly. We have multiple things to look at with respect to US-Russia relations, Election meddling," she told NDTV.

Asserting that "freedom of religion was important", she said, "India, US and everyone should respect religious sentiments and faiths. It needs to be protected. I don't think India alone needs to be reminded. Countries are falling apart and freedom of religion should take this into account."


"Countries are falling apart and freedom of religion should take this into account."
- Ambassador Haley

What does this mean? Is this a threat?

I can tell you that Orthodox Christians around the world view this American-funded "religious freedom" propaganda with fury and great wariness. (I am personally familiar with Orthodox Christians from India/Egypt/Syria (Pre-Chalcedonian) and Serbia/Russia (Chalcedonian).) We know the truth about the war in Syria. We have seen how the ancient Christians of that land have been thrown to the wolves by this hypocritical defender of "human rights," "minorities," and "religious freedom." We want nothing to do with the lies of Ambassador Haley.


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