India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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habal
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby habal » 30 Jun 2018 08:10

Nikki Haley's visit is just political opportunism, they came to put pressure on bjp before an election year and Modi is showing all signs of succumbing.

Iran which shares caspian sea coast with Russia can not be defeated by US militarily or economically. Trump is implementing hard line Israeli agenda and betraying who backed him in elections.

India is displaying weak leadership yet again. Being an ally of USA is not going to make a big difference for India.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kati » 30 Jun 2018 10:02

rsingh wrote:
Neshant wrote:Is US planning another regime change or color revolution in iran

It sure seems like it.

Ask for the same to be applied to Pakistan which exports way more terrorism than Iran

Iranians are too smart for colour revolutions,


Unkil is trying hard through the economic sanction to create an internal disturbance. This week there were lot of protests by the traders in
central Tehran. For the time being the goal is to keep the pot boiling. However, after some initial hot air things will cool down inside Iran,
as they are way more sophisticated than the unsophisticated Arabs. This entire Iran thing is the new front by Unkil-Israel since the Syrian
war is not working in their favor due to stubborn Iranian foot-soldiers. After failing to dislodge Assad they are now trying to break the Shia crescent at the head.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 30 Jun 2018 10:44

rsingh wrote:
Neshant wrote:Is US planning another regime change or color revolution in iran
It sure seems like it.
Ask for the same to be applied to Pakistan which exports way more terrorism than Iran

Iranians are too smart for colour revolutions,

Saarji,
US has already done that once. Back in August 1953, PM Mosaddegh was removed by the CIA and UK intelligence (MI6) in a coup. Mosaddegh was secular, democratic and against foreign domination of Iran. Mosaddegh was imprisoned for three years and then kept in house arrest till his death in 1967. This coup also made the Shah an undisputed dictator of Iran and at the same time a puppet of the US. Iran's oil was controlled by the West. Much of the current hatred of Us in Iran comes from this action. Iranians have not forgotten or forgiven the Khan for this coup. So, a color revolution in Iran, in my humble opinion is unlikely.
Gautam

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 30 Jun 2018 10:54

Lots of folks might think that Iran is a tough custome, and perhaps it is, compared to others in the ME, but make no mistake once US and allies decide on a shock and awe type campaign, Iran will fall. And it won't take long. Right now the Russkis are being coopted, the Cheens will simply back off if promised some juicy iranian resources, Iran better not be under delusions of grandeur. Between the US, Nato, Israel and Sunni states, it will absolutely crumble to dust with many highways of death marring its landscape.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby habal » 30 Jun 2018 11:03

what rubbish? what happened to their shock & awe campaign in syria, donbass? their shock & awe only scares already scared and middle-level powers like Germany, India etc. it loses impact when China & Russia step up to the game.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Austin » 30 Jun 2018 11:27

Cain Marko wrote:Lots of folks might think that Iran is a tough custome, and perhaps it is, compared to others in the ME, but make no mistake once US and allies decide on a shock and awe type campaign, Iran will fall. And it won't take long. Right now the Russkis are being coopted, the Cheens will simply back off if promised some juicy iranian resources, Iran better not be under delusions of grandeur. Between the US, Nato, Israel and Sunni states, it will absolutely crumble to dust with many highways of death marring its landscape.


It took a lot of years even decades to make Iraq fall and in the end US went with thousand of dead bodies back home of their own soldiers with 4 Trillion Debt from Iraq invasion and the end result was the rise of AQ and IS.

All this talk of lets attack Iran wont have any backers in EU , Russia and China , IF Russia and China could not be bought on Syria ( look at the Veto in UN by both ) then Iran is very long shot , There is nothing US can give to them as trade off on Iran and these countries are not for commerical bargain on geostrategic matters . The EU are imploding and have no appetite for another war.

Donut like Nut-anyahoo are dellusional on Iran and are digging their own grave for some kind of sadistic pleasure they attain killing civilians for just votes. Iran are the smartest lot of all the Arabs and they will figure out how to deal with this eventually

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 30 Jun 2018 11:43

habal wrote: Modi is showing all signs of succumbing.



How about offering even one dram of evidence for this statement before making it, you DELETED?
Last edited by Rahul M on 30 Jun 2018 12:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: warned and banned for a day

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ashish raval » 30 Jun 2018 11:54

Expect nil participation from Europe including UK on Iran war. They want to crumble the country under economic sanctions first with little appetite of war and then stage a colour revolution. Iran has few friends in middle East but it will certainly take years before they achieve anything in Iran and being launch pad for going to Europe it will create huge migration crisis for Europe by potentially opening up door all the way from pork, Afghan through Iran to Europe. It will be a nightmare for anyone attacking Persia as Shia dies on the land he is standing defending it like a sardar, but never leaves the battlefield, if any doubts look at how houtis fought army 100 times superior with sheer grit in Yemen.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby dinesha » 30 Jun 2018 11:58

2+ 2 Delay Does Not Mean India-US Ties Are In Trouble
https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/5-facts-th ... ng-1874850

Why 2+2 Didn’t make 4 for India and the US This Time
https://thewire.in/diplomacy/why-22-did ... -this-time

The deepening disconnect
https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/t ... epage=true

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 30 Jun 2018 12:00

Rudradev wrote:
habal wrote: Modi is showing all signs of succumbing.



How about offering even one dram of evidence for this statement before making it, you DELETED?


:shock:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 30 Jun 2018 12:04

ashish raval wrote:Expect nil participation from Europe including UK on Iran war. They want to crumble the country under economic sanctions first with little appetite of war and then stage a colour revolution. Iran has few friends in middle East but it will certainly take years before they achieve anything in Iran and being launch pad for going to Europe it will create huge migration crisis for Europe by potentially opening up door all the way from pork, Afghan through Iran to Europe. It will be a nightmare for anyone attacking Persia as Shia dies on the land he is standing defending it like a sardar, but never leaves the battlefield, if any doubts look at how houtis fought army 100 times superior with sheer grit in Yemen.



All this "superior" fighter nonsense is intolerable BS.

Everyone fights, everyone retreats and everyone dies depending on the circumstances.

No immortals anywhere, so don't try to perpetuate some sort of shia superiority crap.

persian?? really??

Didn't the pakis discover, to their horror, that even banias can fight?? and fight better than them??

Didn't the "superior" sunnis surrender abjectly to the very same banias in beediland??

Haven't they had their porki asses handed to them everytime they tangled with Hindu banias on the battle field??

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby habal » 30 Jun 2018 12:35

It is easier to resupply Iran from Russia than Syria. They share a caspian coast. How can you sanction that ? If Russia managed to pass through hostile waters of bosphorus and supply Syria, Iran is at level of crimea. So sorry, USA cannot do squat in Iran with China buying Iranian oil & Russia supplying arms via caspian.

Only net loser in this deal is India which succumbed to US pressure and will henceforth buy expensive oil from Kuwait, Saudi.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rahul M » 30 Jun 2018 12:39

Austin wrote:.......... Iran are the smartest lot of all the Arabs ..........

:shock:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby habal » 30 Jun 2018 12:49

Two business insiders told Reuters that the Indian Oil Ministry held a meeting with refiners Thursday in which they were told to search for alternatives to Iranian oil.



http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/248202

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 30 Jun 2018 12:58

Habal and Austin,
Syria was saved by russki interference. Read my post carefully. The plan is to get Russia to turn a blind eye, which may or may not be successful depending on what pound of flesh is promised. China is also being put in its place and it is unlikely to hold the line in Iran as Russia did in Syria.

Ideologically Russia is much closer to American right than to Dems or Iran. If Russia sees an advantage in ditching Iran, it might not hesitate

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 30 Jun 2018 13:00

:evil:
Rahul M wrote:
Austin wrote:.......... Iran are the smartest lot of all the Arabs ..........

:shock:

Yes, Iranians are not arabs. They have always been labelled Ajami or furriners by the arabs. No love lost there.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 30 Jun 2018 13:29

Cain Marko wrote:Habal and Austin,
Syria was saved by russki interference. Read my post carefully. The plan is to get Russia to turn a blind eye, which may or may not be successful depending on what pound of flesh is promised. China is also being put in its place and it is unlikely to hold the line in Iran as Russia did in Syria.

Ideologically Russia is much closer to American right than to Dems or Iran. If Russia sees an advantage in ditching Iran, it might not hesitate


russia will not ditch iran.

russia is on the shia side of the gulf equation just like the amerikis are on the sunni side.

Russian support via syria is as good as direct support to iran.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 01 Jul 2018 00:05

http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/30/news/tr ... index.html
Trump asks Saudi Arabia to increase oil production
by Victoria Cavaliere @CNNMoney
President Donald Trump has asked Saudi Arabia's king to increase oil production to make up for a shortfall from Iran and Venezuela.
In a tweet on Saturday, Trump said King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud had agreed to his request to boost production by "maybe up to 2,000,000 barrels."
"Just spoke to King Salman of Saudi Arabia and explained to him that, because of the turmoil & disfunction in Iran and Venezuela, I am asking that Saudi Arabia increase oil production, maybe up to 2,000,000 barrels, to make up the difference...Prices to high! He has agreed!" the tweet read.
Oil prices have spiked in the past week, and on Thursday crude rose above $74 a barrel for the first time since late 2014. The 13% surge in prices has been driven by a series of factors in the international oil market that will trickle down to US drivers filling up their gas tanks.
.....
Gautam
PS India must now buy from Saudi not Iran.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby RoyG » 01 Jul 2018 00:23

chetak wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:Habal and Austin,
Syria was saved by russki interference. Read my post carefully. The plan is to get Russia to turn a blind eye, which may or may not be successful depending on what pound of flesh is promised. China is also being put in its place and it is unlikely to hold the line in Iran as Russia did in Syria.

Ideologically Russia is much closer to American right than to Dems or Iran. If Russia sees an advantage in ditching Iran, it might not hesitate


russia will not ditch iran.

russia is on the shia side of the gulf equation just like the amerikis are on the sunni side.

Russian support via syria is as good as direct support to iran.


In chess, you can either lose a piece or sacrifice one.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 01 Jul 2018 08:18

The S-400 deal has cleared the last hurdle, the DAC, just a day after the US canned the "2+2"dialogue with India.This has apparently angered the Delhi durbar already p*ssed off over Iranian oil purchases sanction threats.Sending the "harridan of hate", Nikki Haley ,was a colossal mistake by the US.Cheap attempts at leveraging her desi DNA in imagining that we would go all gooey eyed at her Poonjabi features fell as flat as a bhatura that failed to rise!

What rose instead was a burning fire in the bellies of the Lutyens Bagh durbar for once , as it hates snubs at its Chanakyan wisdom and magnificience, and thus the DAC cleared the decks immediately for the S-400 mega-deal after the "dialogue of the deaf" was indecently interred by the Yanquis.The menagerie running the White House and its principal occupant appear never to have read or even heard of a world famous book by a certain Dale Carnegie, the title of which is universally known !

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rahul M » 01 Jul 2018 09:17

one good thing about the iran deal breakdown is it would hopefully stop iran from acting so snooty towards India, as they have been wont to in the recent past.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 01 Jul 2018 09:30

If they have ,one must ask why? If it was indeed so, it was becos of our continuous topsy-turvy attitude towards them, becos of US pressure.We shamefully behaved like Pak, the US's favourite catamite, in dealing with Iran, blowing hot and cold everytime the White House farted.The Chahbahar port project should've been finished years ago as a fait accompli instead of the stop-start execution of the same. See the giant strides China is making all over the region and the incredible speed with which they're implemrnting infra projects.While India merely talks, China acts.Do they care about the US? No.
It is our jokers in the MEA who run around like headless chickens pandering to every whim and fancy of the US.

Modi's last meeting with Trump was reportedly a disaster with Trump mocking his style of speech, etc.Contrast it with the fantastic reception and respect he received from Putin.
Our diplomutts have been brought down to earth the hard way. Clearing the S-400 deal is the best message sent to the US at this time,"up yours"!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 01 Jul 2018 09:41

^
What about the fantastic reception that Modi received in China? What about the close China-Russia partnership?

Beepul who are fixated on reception are focused on the tree instead of the forest. One must ignore reception and focus on the interest only.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby habal » 01 Jul 2018 10:10

Every head of state receives what is known as intelligence inputs. And if USA intelligence agencies inform their premier that Modi's graph is on a downswing domestically, their attitude changes dramatically. Or else something implicit in Trump Modi meeting of 2014 was left undone and we went ahead with chahbahar project and thus Trump chose to show open hostility. We must not build any false expectation in foreign leaders for short-term euphoria. That lesson seems to now have been learnt.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 01 Jul 2018 10:18

Trump has shown open hostility to one and all and not just India. Where do I begin?

1. China
2. South Korea
3. Canada
4. Mexico
5. EU as a whole
6 NATO which is critical to EU
7. Germany

I could go on and on but I will stop here.

It is human to try to focus on one's own house on fire and not rush to the neighbours aid when the whole neighborhood is on fire.. Extrapolation Trumphism is counter productive.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rahul M » 01 Jul 2018 10:25

Raju/habal, seems like you have the (same) answer to everything (i.e 'the Mudi shud rejine'), only the questions are creatively modified to suit the answer !

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 01 Jul 2018 10:53

pankajs wrote:^
What about the fantastic reception that Modi received in China? What about the close China-Russia partnership?

Beepul who are fixated on reception are focused on the tree instead of the forest. One must ignore reception and focus on the interest only.


If the communist party in china wills it, even a potato can be "made" to receive a "fantastic" reception.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby habal » 01 Jul 2018 11:17

Rahul M wrote:Raju/habal, seems like you have the (same) answer to everything (i.e 'the Mudi shud rejine'), only the questions are creatively modified to suit the answer !


I do not suggest mudi should rejine because there is no option. Options are worse than mudi. But I wish that he display maturity in dealing with international leaders and deal with them from arms length. Let them try to hug him instead of he going for it. And when they try to get near let them work for it to value the frienship.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Parasu » 01 Jul 2018 12:15

Philip wrote:If they have ,one must ask why? If it was indeed so, it was becos of our continuous topsy-turvy attitude towards them, becos of US pressure.We shamefully behaved like Pak, the US's favourite catamite, in dealing with Iran, blowing hot and cold everytime the White House farted.The Chahbahar port project should've been finished years ago as a fait accompli instead of the stop-start execution of the same. See the giant strides China is making all over the region and the incredible speed with which they're implemrnting infra projects.While India merely talks, China acts.Do they care about the US? No.
It is our jokers in the MEA who run around like headless chickens pandering to every whim and fancy of the US.

Modi's last meeting with Trump was reportedly a disaster with Trump mocking his style of speech, etc.Contrast it with the fantastic reception and respect he received from Putin.
Our diplomutts have been brought down to earth the hard way. Clearing the S-400 deal is the best message sent to the US at this time,"up yours"!

China doesnt care "much" for US because its economy is 5 times that of India. And how did it get there? By shafting USSR and aligning with US.
According to roos-lovers, we should align with Russia, whose economy is half of India's and that will make India rich and independent.
Genius, eh !!!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Parasu » 01 Jul 2018 12:33

For almost half of last century, Roos loving-socialists ran the country. Indian population suffered with low economic growth and India stayed bracketed with Pakistan. Dependent on Russian weapons.
Only after much maligned `US agents` of IMF forced India to open its economy in 1991, which by the way had no money to pay its bills, did Indian economy take off.
Now that India is a 2 trillion economy and other countries are respecting us more and when we have left the pakis behind, we must now get sanctions slapped on us by taking a hawkish anti-US line.
Wah ji wah.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 01 Jul 2018 12:50

So your prescription for increasing our "respect" globally is to GUBO to US otherwise sanctions...?

Wah ji wah..

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby RKumar » 01 Jul 2018 14:02

It is sesenstive time in world politics, USA is going too far to protect its interests. India should take opportunity to balance its acts and have win-win relationship with the world while protecting its interests. Our interests should be supreme.

1) Regarding S-400 deal - although IAF wants it, I am against this deal. We said no more missile imports as we have reached certain level of maturity. Better to cancel this deal and develop local variant of it during next 6-10 yrs. Anyway, even if sign this deal this year we will get it next 5 years or so. So there will be delay of 3-5 years. There should be no Thaad or PAC 3 imports.

2) Regarding deals with Iran - we should continue to do business with Iran to import oil and continue enhancing charbhar port. We should negotiate with USA that we gave away S-400 and Pakfa deals with Russia but now you should give us our way with Iran.

3) Regarding China threat - we should induct modern rifles, clothing, create infrastructure, induct artillery, Priyanka systems, Agni-3,4,5 in large numbers. China will be going through bad phase during next 5 years and try to do some tricks with India to keep Mr Xi in power. We should prepare ourselves for the offensive this time and lets free Tibet for once n all. Deploy hidden assets like Brahmos and Akash in Indonesischen waters. Deploy some assets in charbhar n Africa - to cut the supply lanes of dragon. Deploy 3-5x times assets in our unsinkable carrier. So we can handle the attacking force with confidence and boldly.

4) Regarding Paki - No need to give any importance to napakis. Keep a distance of 10 meters - sports, cultural events, exchanges, visas, medical visas, talks. And kill the saurs whenever you can. Anyway, within next 5 years China will be forced to manage and run it. They are bankrupting themselves with all sort of wrongdoing. Let it be China’s problem, we just seal the border n ears tight. Fully utilize our share of water and give zero consession on all deals. No honor or face saving deals to them. Let them humiliate themselves- why the heck save those who want to harm us.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby hanumadu » 01 Jul 2018 14:18

Small correction...
Rahul M wrote:Raju/habal/Trilobite, seems like you have the (same) answer to everything (i.e 'the Mudi shud rejine'), only the questions are creatively modified to suit the answer !

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vips » 01 Jul 2018 17:30

Kashi wrote:So your prescription for increasing our "respect" globally is to GUBO to US otherwise sanctions...?

Wah ji wah..


We were guboing to Ruskies earlier and where did it get us? Shitty Socialist policies, having the infamous 'Hindu growth rate' and branded 'an economic basket case'.

Given a choice Guboing with US is at least productive. As rightly pointed above even china rose to prominence only after ditching Russia.

Being Neutral is not an option as NAM was a scam and dhobi ka kutta is neither here nor there.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 01 Jul 2018 17:42

Vips wrote:We were guboing to Ruskies earlier and where did it get us? Shitty Socialist policies, having the infamous 'Hindu growth rate' and branded 'an economic basket case'.


Which one was it? Russia GUBO or Nehruvian socialism?

Vips wrote:Given a choice Guboing with US is at least productive.


Highly productive for the Pakis...oh wait.

Vips wrote:As rightly pointed above even china rose to prominence only after ditching Russia.


Did they GUBO?

Vips wrote:Being Neutral is not an option as NAM was a scam and dhobi ka kutta is neither here nor there.


Being neutral != NAM.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Parasu » 01 Jul 2018 19:58

Since we have nothing to contribute rather than flying off tangents to take potshots, here we go,
Kashi wrote:Which one was it? Russia GUBO or Nehruvian socialism?

Both

Vips wrote:Given a choice Guboing with US is at least productive.
---- Highly productive for the Pakis...oh wait.

Very productive for Pakis considering it has fought India to a standstill being 5,6 times smaller. They should thank US GUBOing for that. And small but swollen brains not to see it.

Vips wrote:As rightly pointed above even china rose to prominence only after ditching Russia.
---- Did they GUBO?

They shafted dear Russia.

Vips wrote:Being Neutral is not an option as NAM was a scam and dhobi ka kutta is neither here nor there.
Being neutral != NAM.

Nope -
Being neutral = GUBOing to Russia

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 01 Jul 2018 22:01

{Deleted}
Last edited by Suraj on 04 Jul 2018 04:15, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Stay on topic and take your chronic moaning elsewhere.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 02 Jul 2018 05:48

{Deleted}

Parasu wrote:Very productive for Pakis considering it has fought India to a standstill being 5,6 times smaller.


Ah yes, 1971 was a standstill, Siachen was a standstill, Kargil was a standstill. If those were standstills, wonder what is Cuba or for that matter Iraq and Afghanistan..

And of course, Pakistan is a quintessential success story in ALL socio-economic indices.

Parasu wrote:They shafted dear Russia.


After shafting your dear Russia, China went on to shaft dear Unkil (EU and Japan as well) and it continues till date with Unkil happily supplying the lube. If we must take a leaf from Cheeni playbook, it should be this.

I am surprised at the attitude that just because we supposedly GUBOed to the Soviets/Russians in the past we should now GUBO to Unkil since it will be more productive. I would rather not GUBO at all. Ack thoo only.
Last edited by Suraj on 04 Jul 2018 04:15, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Cleanup

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby hanumadu » 02 Jul 2018 06:11

https://financialtribune.com/articles/economy-business-and-markets/88954/us-says-it-won-t-impede-india-s-chabahar-project?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=social
U S Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley on June 27 told India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi that Washington would back his country’s plan to develop the Iranian seaport of Chabahar to open up a trade route to Afghanistan that avoids its arch-rival Pakistan.


After s-400 and chabahar port, the only issue remaining is oil. If EU and china are not in on the sanctions, Iran will probably be able to find avenues to sell its oil.

Yagnasri
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Yagnasri » 02 Jul 2018 06:13

Our economic growth was/is not that much linked to the US or any nation. It is more related to our own internal policies. True that a easy market access to a large economy like that of US is helpful. But may not be a game changer. Indian economy is not export-dependent like that of China. We have large consumption internally. So let us work on our economy and as we grow we will see our capabilities in the world grow.


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