India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Singha
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 01 Aug 2018 00:22

the nasams seems more like spyder with its derby, python missiles and compact and dense form factor. what can nasams do that spyder which the iaf can order few more cannot do?

our rulers have never shied away from getting the best for dilli - roads, horticulture, mother diary milk ATMs, the best metro, the best airport, black cats...the list can go on.

wont be the first stupid decision to please murica ... apache and chinook salt is still fresh in my wounds.

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spyder would have no problem defending the same footprint and has IR homer python also
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 01 Aug 2018 00:46

^ Oman acquired it for 1.28b in jan 2014. Ours @ 1b in 2018 may just be the radars and the fire stations with few complementary aim120s

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby V_Raman » 01 Aug 2018 01:35

NASAMS should be indigenised. We can sub the missiles with our own.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 01 Aug 2018 04:49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhz4ZQMHeDw

NASAMS 2 in action with Norway. I do not see any major differences from Spyder. Too me it is payback of some sort for political reasons

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 01 Aug 2018 20:14

kshirin wrote:Thank you, I really like your posts also. I cannot understand how genuinely patriotic members of the Forum can be called "philes" of any other country. And the member slyly continued to insinuate that I am. I used to think this Forum existed to promote Indian national interest. But I shall stay for a while, if only to remain in touch with you and members like Phillip etc. Admin should ensure that genuine people who care for the country are not ridiculed, and discussions on important national issues are encouraged.


Thanks for your kind words and yes, this forum definitely exists to promote Indian national interests and values members who represent India's interests! Admins most definitely do all they can to ensure that discussions remain on track and important issues get the attention they deserve. As Rahul mentioned, report the posts that are offensive so Admins can check and take action. If members respond to "baits", it forces admins to respond equivocally.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 01 Aug 2018 20:17

The only reason I can see for NASAMs is that it is already deployed for a national capital protection grid. SpyDer etc deployment would need to be scaled up whereas NASAMS seems to be already deployed en masse for that specific purpose. In terms of why NASAMS when there is S-400, well S-400 needs a NASAMS sort of system for the close-in protection. Having said that, I don't see any significant advantages over Barak-8. Any cost advantage from the cheaper mass produced AMRAAM rounds would be negated by the fact that we could still have sought to integrate Barak-8 and S-400 closely, but NASAMS will have to plug into IACCS as will S-400, and any network centric ops will have to happen at that level.

In short, I too think that there is an element of politics in this purchase.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 01 Aug 2018 20:41

If this was political, we could have gone for additional chinooks or Apaches or C 130j.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Neshant » 02 Aug 2018 11:06

None of the "anti-missile" defenses have proven to work reliably.

We may be buying vapor-ware.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 02 Aug 2018 20:53

Can you please inform us Neshant, as to how a short range system like NASAMS fulfills any TMD/BMD role?

Otherwise, please desist from adding confusion to the topic.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 02 Aug 2018 21:04

Karthik S wrote:If this was political, we could have gone for additional chinooks or Apaches or C 130j.


Partly political. Arms purchases fulfill political objectives, but also have to meet operational requirements.

NASAMS-2:
1. Exists (not paper talk), and has been deployed in city protection role
2. Uses X Band radar (good for detecting low RCS targets, all-weather wise)
3. ARH Missiles - fire & forget capability
4. Can handle saturation attacks (talks of handling upto 72 targets at a time)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Austin » 02 Aug 2018 21:59

Karan M wrote:
Karthik S wrote:If this was political, we could have gone for additional chinooks or Apaches or C 130j.


Partly political. Arms purchases fulfill political objectives, but also have to meet operational requirements.

NASAMS-2:
1. Exists (not paper talk), and has been deployed in city protection role
2. Uses X Band radar (good for detecting low RCS targets, all-weather wise)
3. ARH Missiles - fire & forget capability
4. Can handle saturation attacks (talks of handling upto 72 targets at a time)


The same capability exists in Spyder deployed and Akash NG under works

Not to mention the current mass deployment of Akash and Barak-8

If a payout was required to be done we should have purchased additional C-17 and C-130 both badly needed

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srin » 02 Aug 2018 22:51

If payout was required, we could have purchased AMRAAMs themselves to arm our fighters. Why the SAMs indeed ?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 02 Aug 2018 22:58

Austin wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Partly political. Arms purchases fulfill political objectives, but also have to meet operational requirements.

NASAMS-2:
1. Exists (not paper talk), and has been deployed in city protection role
2. Uses X Band radar (good for detecting low RCS targets, all-weather wise)
3. ARH Missiles - fire & forget capability
4. Can handle saturation attacks (talks of handling upto 72 targets at a time)


The same capability exists in Spyder deployed and Akash NG under works

Not to mention the current mass deployment of Akash and Barak-8

If a payout was required to be done we should have purchased additional C-17 and C-130 both badly needed


Again, you are missing the point.

The point was that while NASAMS purchase fulfills a political role, it also fulfills an operational role.

As to why not more C-130s and C-17s, isn't the answer obvious?

There is no money for both SpyDers and C-130s plus C-17s.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 02 Aug 2018 23:00

srin wrote:If payout was required, we could have purchased AMRAAMs themselves to arm our fighters. Why the SAMs indeed ?


AMRAAMS purchase directly makes no sense, because the Khan won't agree.

Will they agree to integrate AMRAAM on Su-30?
Will they agree to integrate AMRAAM on Rafale, and give it a cost-effective alternative to Mica, hence improving the capability of a fighter which is competing against the F-16, F-18?

Next, if we do get AMRAAMS + AMRAAM-ER mix on NASAMS-2, please understand the tactical ramifications for the IAF.

The IAF will know the exact capabilities of the AMRAAM, which to this date, remains the PAF's premier AD weapon.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 02 Aug 2018 23:40

Also, I am not sure what mass deployment of Akash and Barak is being spoken of.

Our current orders are a drop in the bucket, so to speak.

The IAF had 30 Pechora squadrons, with 2 batteries each, translating to 60 firing units.

They currently have 8 Akash squadrons and (supposedly), 9 Barak-8 squadrons on order.

The follow on order of 7 Akash squadrons is stuck because of a funding challenge and also, IAF objections to cost proposed by BEL.

The IAF is also upgrading Pechora firing units, around 8 squadrons worth. Clearly, the rest are too obsolete and all but used up.

Not sure which systems will replace these - likely Akash NG, otherwise IAF would not have agreed to its development.

The Akash NG is still in development. So is the QRSAM.

Around 4 squadrons of SpyDer are also on order but these replace the obsolete OSA-AKMs in IAF service.

Plans to make the SpyDer in India went nowhere because Rafael refused to provide TOT for seekers or critical tech to India, clearly concerned it would give a fillip to India's domestic missile development.

The rest of the OSA-AKMs will have to be replaced with QRSAM.

Point I am making is the NASAMS-2 will still fill a useful role, of course, provided our concerns about its integration into our IACCS are met fully.

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India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Peregrine » 02 Aug 2018 23:50

Karan Ji : Please Transfer this news item if it is appropriate for this Thread to the appropriate Thread.
Thanks in Advance.

Google's secret China project sparks anger among workers

Google staff awoke on Wednesday to surprising news: Their company is working on a search app tailored, and censored, for China. The project, kept secret from all but select teams and leaders, sparked a furious internal debate.

Yet the move couldn't have been entirely surprising for Googlers.

Sundar Pichai, chief executive officer since 2015, has made no secret of his desire to take the search giant back to mainland China. The executive is more pragmatic about the world's largest internet market than Google's founders, who pulled search from the mainland in 2010 over censorship concerns.

Under Pichai, Google has invested in Chinese companies, met with its leaders and made it a priority to spread Google's artificial intelligence technology across the country. But bringing search back would be Pichai's boldest move yet and will put his personal stamp firmly on the company.

Google Is Hiring Thousands More People Across the U.S. On an earnings call Thursday, chief executive Sundar Pichai said the company would be “making significant investments in offices across nine states, including Colorado and Michigan.” Google is planning on opening or building five new data centers in 2018. A single data center only employs between 70 and 350 people. The company currently has an office or a data center in 21 states. Google is also busy planning a massive expansion into San Jose, which is only 13 miles from its current headquarters in Mountain View.

Co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin built Google to "organize the world's information and make it universally available." They viewed China as a threat to the company's stance as a defender of the open web. Pichai, in contrast, sees China as a hotbed of engineering talent and an appealing market.
Pichai's new leadership style and priorities haven't always sat well with the Google rank and file. Within hours of the China search news breaking, several staff privately criticized the plans. Two employees who spoke to Bloomberg News compared it to Project Maven, a Google AI contract with the Pentagon that sparked an internal revolt earlier this year. The company is not renewing that deal.

Another person who has seen some early examples of the Chinese search app, code-named Dragonfly, described it as a "censorship engine." People trust Google to share true information and the Chinese search app is a betrayal of that, the employee said. The Google workers asked not to be identified because they're not permitted to discuss internal matters.

One employee transferred to a different role at the company because of ethical concerns with Dragonfly, according to an internal message viewed by Bloomberg News. An unnamed company vice president asked to keep details of the project private so they would not leak to the public, the internal message read.

Google said on Wednesday that the company does not "comment on speculation about future plans" and declined to comment further. In 2010, Brin, now president of parent Alphabet Inc., told the Wall Street Journal, that China's policies of censorship and surveillance has the "same earmarks of totalitarianism" as Soviet Russia, where he was born. Brin did not respond to an email requesting comment on Wednesday.

Some Googlers, however, posted missives of support for the project on internal message boards on Wednesday. Google's mission of organizing the world's information shouldn't leave out a fifth of the planet, one person wrote in a post viewed by Bloomberg News. Another said that boycotting the country did little to change the Chinese government or "bring any positive change."

A worker in China lamented their inability to access Google services in the country, such as sharing pictures through Google Photos or even recommending the app engine they are working on. "As a Chinese citizen working for a company that my parents and relatives can't access is demotivating," the person wrote on a message board.

Dragonfly was a popular topic on Memegen, an internal online photo messaging board and cultural barometer at the company. One meme cited a popular Google slogan -- "Put the user first" -- with an asterisk attached: "Chinese users excluded, because we do not agree with your government." A second post questioned the merits of American staff deciding global policies. Westerners debating Google entering China "feels somehow like men debating regulating women's bodies," it read.

Pichai has not directly addressed the issue of Chinese censorship. But he and his deputies often note the international scope of the company's ambition. Diane Greene, CEO of Google's cloud-computing unit, would not comment on plans to enter China in an interview with Bloomberg News last week. "We want to be a global cloud. Customers want us to be a global cloud," she said.

In March, two months after opening an AI lab in Beijing, Pichai visited the city and said he was "looking forward to expanding" research efforts there. Two years before that, at the Code Conference, Pichai said, "Google is for everyone. We want to be in China serving Chinese users."

Search might not be the only way Google is trying to build a China presence. The company is developing a news aggregation app that would comply with the country's censorship laws, the Information reported, citing unidentified people familiar with the project.

Even if Google were to launch search in China now, it's unclear if people would use it. Since its departure, Baidu Inc. has come to dominate traditional search while many users have turned away from desktops in favor of using specific mobile apps. That includes looking through Meituan for food, Alibaba for e-commerce, Toutiao for news and WeChat for most other things.

"While Google was blocked, China's market continued to develop," said Brock Silvers, managing director of Kaiyuan Capital in Shanghai. "Google may now set aside principle in exchange for Chinese market access, but it seems unlikely to dominate."

Pichai has been plotting Google's search moves in China for months, if not years, with an approach focused more on partnerships. Cooperation with internet leader Tencent Holdings Ltd. stands out. Google struck a long-term patent deal with the Chinese company, the owner of WeChat, and said it would usher in further tie-ups. The U.S. company also launched a game available exclusively on WeChat and invested $550 million in Tencent-backed e-commerce site JD.com.

Yet relations between China and Google's home country have soured recently amid trade tensions. Facebook's attempt to open an innovation hub was rejected while Qualcomm Inc. walked away from the chip industry's biggest deal when mainland regulators didn't approve it.

It's hard to imagine Chinese authorities deciding Google's fate without considering the political climate, said Charles Mok, a legislative counselor in Hong Kong. "Anything that has to do with big American companies now has to do with the U.S.-China trade war," he said

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 03 Aug 2018 08:52

The NASAMs purchase is intriguing. I'd have liked to see more weaponized sea guardians or perhaps even P8s or maybe a far deeper deal on the F404/414 which the LCA uses that protects it from sanctionbazi.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Austin » 03 Aug 2018 14:04

Karan M wrote:Also, I am not sure what mass deployment of Akash and Barak is being spoken of.

Our current orders are a drop in the bucket, so to speak.

The IAF had 30 Pechora squadrons, with 2 batteries each, translating to 60 firing units.

They currently have 8 Akash squadrons and (supposedly), 9 Barak-8 squadrons on order.

The follow on order of 7 Akash squadrons is stuck because of a funding challenge and also, IAF objections to cost proposed by BEL.

The IAF is also upgrading Pechora firing units, around 8 squadrons worth. Clearly, the rest are too obsolete and all but used up.

Not sure which systems will replace these - likely Akash NG, otherwise IAF would not have agreed to its development.

The Akash NG is still in development. So is the QRSAM.

Around 4 squadrons of SpyDer are also on order but these replace the obsolete OSA-AKMs in IAF service.

Plans to make the SpyDer in India went nowhere because Rafael refused to provide TOT for seekers or critical tech to India, clearly concerned it would give a fillip to India's domestic missile development.

The rest of the OSA-AKMs will have to be replaced with QRSAM.

Point I am making is the NASAMS-2 will still fill a useful role, of course, provided our concerns about its integration into our IACCS are met fully.


On one side there is talk about 7 Akash Squadron stuck due to Pricing issue on the other side we are Splurging just $1 billion for NASAMS-2 ?

The Role envisaged for NASAMS-2 can equally be done by Spyder system we have there is Spyder-MR for greater range , There is Akash which has similar range and is a most cost effective option , Barak-8 has missile with ARH with range of 70 km , S-400 has missile of range of 40 km 9M96E ,

Akash-NG with ARH is under works , So there are not just one but 2-3 multiple redundant system doing the same role ,Add NASAMS-2 it becomes the 3-4th system , and SpyDer does not give TOT will NASAMS-2 do that ? What difference would it make.

You are better off speed funding Akash-NG with 50 km Range and buying the 7 squadron of Akash stuck due to funding rather than buy expensive NASAMS-2 and waste money.

If USA thinks it is entitled to get compensated due to CAASTA then better of buying another squadron or 2 of C-130J to replace An-32

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Aug 2018 14:40

Nasams-2 never makes any sense, we peny pinch on domestic orders while we splurge on foreign orders.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 03 Aug 2018 20:39

kshirin wrote:Kindly remove my ID from Bharat Rakshak. I thought this was a forum for genuine patriots. Clearly there is no room for me here. Thanks a lot.



Please do reconsider. You are most welcome here.

ramana

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arun » 04 Aug 2018 17:25

Suraj wrote:US eases export controls for high-tech product sales to India
In a major boost to India, the US on Monday eased export controls for high-technology product sales to it by designating it as a Strategic Trade Authorization-1 (STA-1) country.

List of STA-1 and STA-2 countries:
BIS STA data
36 STA (c)(1) Countries
Argentina AR Germany DE Norway NO
Australia AU Greece GR Poland PL
Austria AT Hungary HU Portugal PT
Belgium BE Iceland IS Romania RO
Bulgaria BG Ireland IE Slovakia SK
Canada CA Italy IT Slovenia SI
Croatia HR Japan JP South Korea KR
Czech Republic CZ Latvia LV Spain ES
Denmark DE Lithuania LT Sweden SE
Estonia EE Luxembourg LU Switzerland CH
Finland FI Netherlands NL Turkey TR
France FR New Zealand NZ United Kingdom GB

8 STA (c)(2) Countries
Albania AL
Hong Kong HK
India IN
Israel IL
Malta MT
Singapore SG
South Africa ZA
Taiwan TW

India moves from the 2nd list to first one now.


Regards US moving India to STA C 1 which also seems to be Country Group A:5, link to the notification in the US Federal Register. It is effective August 3, 2018:

U.S.-India Major Defense Partners: Implementation Under the Export Administration Regulations of India's Membership in the Wassenaar Arrangement and Addition of India to Country Group A:5

PDF of the printed Version of the same US Federal Notification :

Clicky

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby A_Gupta » 04 Aug 2018 19:40

Reading 1286, it can amount to the same thing. Depends on how the regulations are written.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Zynda » 11 Aug 2018 11:10

India nationals illegally crossing the US-Mexico border in record numbers

The surge of Central Americans crossing into the U.S. claiming asylum is no secret around the world. Just a snapshot of those caught entering on any given day is stunning – Nigeria, Romania, Nepal – in addition to the hundreds of Mexicans, Guatemalans and Hondurans.

But one of the fastest-growing groups of illegal immigrants come not from the barrios of South America or the slums of Africa, but mega-sized cities in India – 8,000 miles away from the tiny town of El Centro, California, where a handful of Indian nationals are illegally entering the U.S. every day, officials say.

"It's a common misconception that we just arrest Mexicans - that couldn't be further from the truth," said El Centro agent Justin Casterhone. "We arrest people from all over the world."

Unable to obtain H1b visas, which are given to highly skilled workers, because of a crackdown on the visas by the Trump administration, and because of a fear that Sikhs are coming under attack by fundamentalist groups in their country, Indians are heading to the U.S. -- illegally -- in droves.

In 2015, agents caught six immigrants from India trying to cross into the U.S. from Mexico. So far this fiscal year, the figure is already at more than 3,400.

The U.S.-Mexican border is divided into nine sectors. The smallest is El Centro, a tiny 70-mile stretch just west of the Arizona-California border. That area has become a conduit for those from India fleeing their country.

"Communication is very, very hard," said Casterhone, who like most border agents speaks fluent Spanish, but no Punjabi, the native language. "When trying to communicate, we are gonna have to get the interpreter to get the entire story."

Agents said they arrest roughly five to 10 Indian nationals a day, with most young men claiming asylum as victims of political or religious persecution. Women, who often belong to a lower class in India's stratified caste system, claim abuse or fear of retribution from families in a higher social class.

"When someone marries beneath their caste, or above their caste, the parents generally get really angry about it and can subject the couple to honor killing," said immigration attorney Judith Wood, who has represented and won a number of asylum claims on behalf of Indian nationals."

Unlike those coming from Central America, who generally flee poverty and seek protection from gangs, most Indians claim persecution based on politics, social group and religion.

“People who are untouchables, the lowest caste, are basically not allowed to participate fully in society," Wood said. "Among members of the Sikh religion, there's a high incidence of torture."

Most Central Americans pay an $8,000 smuggling fee to cross through Mexico to the U.S. For Indians, it is considerably more.

"Some of these organizations are charging Indian nationals up to $25,000 dollars to get smuggled into the U.S.," said El Centro Sector Chief Gloria Chavez. "These traffickers, they are winning on this. Law enforcement is not."

Chavez said Indians generally fly to Qatar then Ecuador, then travel on foot or by bus through the jungles of Colombia and Panama, through Central America and Mexico to El Centro. Most know to travel without any documents verifying their identity.

"Many use their lack of identification to claim to be one person in Mexico and another one in the United States," she said. "In Mexico, they claim to be an adult because unaccompanied minors under 18 are arrested. In the U.S., the opposite is true. Here, they claim to be juveniles so they must be released."

Asylum seekers without a criminal history in the U.S. are typically released. The Indian nationals usually head to the local Sikh Temple for a meal, change of clothes and a bus ticket. From there they will go live with relatives until an immigration judge can hear their case – typically a year or two later.

"They have the right to migrate wherever they want to go," Chavez said. "But there is a legal way and an illegal way. We want them to do it the legal way."

Many of the Indians in the above are just using existing stereotypes to claim victim hood in hoping to get asylum in US. Some of them may be actual victims, but I think many of them are not. I get it why many people in India would chose to stay in a developed Western country if given a choice, but why are Sikhs so hell bent on getting out of India, even if it means entering another country illegally? Is the situation that bad in Punjab?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 11 Aug 2018 14:40

^ Saw a phone video on youtube last year of a troupe of Sikhs and Tibetans(girls) from India among others. They were trekking through some jungle in south america heading towards the US border.

Tried my best to find that video again but the title was in gurmukhi so I don't think I'll be able to find it again.

edit: here it is


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby A_Gupta » 11 Aug 2018 18:53

https://piie.com/blogs/realtime-economi ... ions-redux
Iran Sanctions Redux
As for India—also a target of US steel tariffs—Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government has quietly increased its purchases from Iran in recent months. India could still agree to reduce its purchases from its currently inflated base, and there are indications that a US-India deal is brewing that encompasses sanctions and defense cooperation. But India is unlikely to cut back Iranian imports sharply from historic levels.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 11 Aug 2018 20:11

nice victimhood ecosystem they have got running there. with 25k a head these are not poor people but the pull of murica/canada is very strong for the lower middle class as a deep and immediate jump in lifestyle is there for taking - if they can sneak through.

Mallus and sections of desi muslims have crowded everyone else out of the legal worker gulf ecosystem...a new Mallu ecosystem is building up in australia also now legal immigration...

we must have our Lebensraum one way or another .... 15% of humanity cannot remain crammed onto 5% of its landmass. the resource rich sparsely populated lands which the euros grabbed taking advantage of colonial era delta in technology are now the major ports of call for the newly energized brown armies :D they had faced same issue of overpopulation and depleting natural resources, plus periodic wars and famines.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby A_Gupta » 11 Aug 2018 20:17

Singha wrote:we must have our Lebensraum one way or another .... 15% of humanity cannot remain crammed onto 5% of its landmass. the resource rich sparsely populated lands which the euros grabbed taking advantage of colonial era delta in technology are now the major ports of call for the newly energized brown armies :D


Possibly. But the Netherlands, England, South Korea and Taiwan have higher population densities than India.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 11 Aug 2018 20:23

all are fairly small homogenous culture countries...easier to control things... Eng not only led the industrial and university stem revolution..but in parallel had a huge system of lucrative colonies for resources. Eng , Netherland and Italy developed most of the capitalist banking and market systems we use today. countries close to these 3 benefitted most (western eu)....the benefits flowed less and slower to eastern europe which remained relatively poorer

there is no lower middle income large country like India, with less per capita land/resources who had ever made the leap to higher income level.

india and indonesia are the hence unique aspirants so far... indonesia is a big country of 7000 islands but the population is concentrated in java and bali the most fertile and developed islands.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Zynda » 11 Aug 2018 21:28

Singha wrote:nice victimhood ecosystem they have got running there. with 25k a head these are not poor people but the pull of murica/canada is very strong for the lower middle class as a deep and immediate jump in lifestyle is there for taking - if they can sneak through.

This possibly takes the discussion OT...but *IF* they get asylum in Khan, then legally they are allowed to work anywhere (I think...equivalent to GC/PR?). If not & if they stay there illegally, per my understanding, they are cut off from organized labor market. They have to get by doing jobs like taxi drivers, landscapers or daily laborers, possibly in construction industry working as Temp and being paid in cash under the table. Certainly their life style would be paycheck to paycheck...not the relatively comfy life style of avg. white collar jobs. Onlee thing is that they would benefit good infra but would be offset by spending in $ relative to their income. Very little savings I would assume. Probably multiple folks staying under one roof like a 2 BHK apt, which would be like a crowded dorm.

Possible that even in the above situation, lifestyle could be slightly better compared to India. But I would guess, the jump of lifestyle is more of an impression which would be created by brokers, friends & relatives (which would be made up not to lose face back home) & thus the allure of the destination.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 11 Aug 2018 21:40

^^ More likely that the grass looks greener on the other side, that's all.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 11 Aug 2018 22:01

how do such people travel back to home country to meet parents and siblings? or they dont travel until they can get legal asylum or amnesty?

i am sure there are rags to riches success stories ... and maybe thats what inspires the rest to take a shot. most self-made NRI migrant millionaires came with very less money in pocket...but they did have legal ecosystem on their side and could work overtly.

maybe covert success stories are also there but not published for obvious reasons.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 11 Aug 2018 22:37

Apparently, this is a common phenomenon to the state of punjab



In the commentary, they say that they don't carry any ID cards with them during the journey which could link them back to punjab because they could get deported(if caught). Without any ID cards, the americans cannot make a case with the indian embassy for deportation. This guy explains his situation - can't stay, can't leave.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Viv S » 12 Aug 2018 01:52

US suspends decade-long military training programme with Pakistan: Report
ISLAMABAD: The Trump administration has suspended more than a decade-long military training programme of Pakistani personnel at US institutions, a media report said today, days after Islamabad and Moscow signed an agreement to allow Pakistani troops to receive training at the Russian defence centres.

Pakistan and Russia signed an agreement on Tuesday in Rawalpindi, during which the two sides discussed bilateral defence relations and agreed that Pakistani troops will receive training at the Russian military training institutes.

Pakistan and the US ties nosedived in January after President Donald Trump accused Islamabad of giving nothing to Washington but "lies and deceit" and providing "safe haven" to terrorists. The US Congress also passed a bill to slash Pakistan's defence aid to $150 million, significantly below the historic level of more than $1 billion per year.

The US military institutions are struggling to fill the 66 slots they had kept aside for officers from Pakistan for the next academic year, as the Trump administration refused to provide funds for their training, the Dawn newspaper reported, quoting official sources.

The funds for the training of Pakistani officers came from the US government's International Military Education and Training Programme or IMET, but no funds were made available for Pakistan for the next academic year, it said.

The suspension of the training first became apparent when the US National Defence University or NDU in Washington, which has had reserved seats for Pakistani officers for more than a decade, told the outgoing Pakistani officers that the varsity has been asked to fill the positions for the next year with officers from other nations.

The NDU is one of several US military institutions that train officers from Pakistan.

The Trump administration had announced early this year that it was suspending security assistance to Pakistan over differences on Afghanistan but indicated that training programmes for military officers will continue.

The cancellation of slots kept aside for Pakistani officers, however, shows that the suspension now also applies to training programmes, the report said.

Pakistani officers have been receiving military training and education in the US since early 1960s, which were suspended in the 1990s but restored after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Previously, it was not just Pakistan that valued the training and education of its officers received in the US. US military institutions also proudly owned training officers who assumed senior positions after returning home, such as former Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, and Lt Gen Naveed Mukhtar, the current director general of the Inter-Services Intelligence, the report said.

"This is an unfortunate and ultimately counterproductive decision. There are certainly ways to send a strong message to Pakistan, but this isn't the way to do it," Michael Kugelman, an expert of Pakistan affairs at the Washington think tank The Wilson Centre, was quoted as saying in the report.

"This move could squander what little goodwill and trust remains in the military-to-military relationship, and it reduces the likelihood that Pakistan will act in the ways that Washington would like it to act," Mr Kugelman said.

He said there was a long history of educational and training cooperation between the US and Pakistani militaries, and this cooperation had withstood the pressures and tensions of the relationship.

"The fact that these educational exchanges have suffered this blow now suggests that the relationship could be entering into a new phase where even the supposedly safe and protected dimensions of the relationship can become casualties of wider tensions and ill will," Kugelman said.

So far there is no response from Pakistani official to this move by the US.

Pakistan's defence ties with Russia have moved past the bitter Cold War hostilities in recent years and the chill in the relations between Pakistan and the US has further pushed the country towards Russia and China.

Pakistan has shown eagerness to build military-to-military level ties with Russia.

Earlier this year, the then foreign minister Khawaja Asif visited Moscow during which the two sides agreed to set up a commission to boost military cooperation.

Russia has over the past three years provided four Mi-35M combat and cargo helicopters to Pakistan and the militaries of the two countries also held joint drills codenamed "Friendship".

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby sooraj » 14 Aug 2018 07:42

Trump Joked He Could Play Matchmaker For PM Modi: Foreign Media

Ahead of the meeting last year with Modi at the White House, Trump allegedly studied a map of South Asia and mispronounced Nepal as "nipple" and referred to Bhutan as "button," Politico said, quoting two unnamed sources. The president seemed confused that the two countries - which border India - even existed, the report says. :lol:

"He didn't know what those were. He thought it was all part of India," a source told Politico. "He was like, 'What is this stuff in between and these other countries?'"


After Trump's staffers told the president that Modi would not be bringing his wife along to the meeting at the White House, Trump allegedly joked, "Ah, I think I can set him up with somebody," the report said, according to "two people briefed on the meeting."

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Aug 2018 01:57

History of this bijnej of paki jarnails and US schools: Remember that Mohammed Khan (?) the chief terrorist of the Pakistan Army of Islam (the real name of the Taliban/Pakiban) was given the "Legend of Merit" or "Lexus Of Pakiness" or some **** like that by the War College right around when Americans were dying fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. The different parts of the Pentagon all work at cross-purposes, driven by the sole concern of maintaining/increasing their own budgets. The above-named **** was the second-in-command to Musharraf, and was on the other end of the infamous conversation when Mush was in Beijing at the start of the Kargil War. His voice is the one that said:
We have the jehadis by the scruff of the neck. They will do as we tell them.

So cancelling this incestuous orgy between the US War College and the leaders of global terror, was long overdue. It is incomprehensible why it was allowed to continue this long.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 15 Aug 2018 04:20

"Scruff of the neck" guy talking to Musharraf was Paki CGS Lt. Gen Mohammed Aziz, IIRC. Didn't know that he had been awarded the Nishan-e-Hoyt by US (Naval?) War College.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby disha » 15 Aug 2018 05:08

Singha wrote:how do such people travel back to home country to meet parents and siblings? or they dont travel until they can get legal asylum or amnesty?


Asylum means they are being persecuted. If they travel back to home country, their asylum based visa will be in jeopardy. Technically they cannot even go to the Indian consulate. Either place they can be arrested and charged on visa fraud.

I was at Indian consulate and a group of Indians wanted a visa back to India, they were in US under asylum. They were miffed when the security guard told them that they cannot even stand in line and have to leave premises. And this idiots started commenting on how bad the consulate is and its system etc and started a drama. And one consulate official came, gathered the asylum-based-US-Citizens and explained that if they are seen on Indian soil by any chance, their US citizenship will be in jeopardy. And then the Indian consulate security came out and kicked them out.

On one hand you feel sorry for them, since some of them wanted to go back to India to visit their ailing parents or their only sibling and on other hand you feel contempt for them. Since they did pay money to a coyote to cross into US and also paid money to the lawyer to write nonsense to get their visa.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 15 Aug 2018 05:51

Asylum-based citizens are eligible for OCI?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby disha » 15 Aug 2018 05:58

Zynda wrote:Many of the Indians in the above are just using existing stereotypes to claim victim hood in hoping to get asylum in US. Some of them may be actual victims, but I think many of them are not.


NONE. None of them are actual victims., but the sad thing is that they also do not know the kind of drivel the lawyers make up to get them asylum visa. All they understand is that they will get a visa based on some fee and tell a sob story in front of the judge if called. Everybody has a sob story on how they are persecuted. My entire school+college was a sob story and I was highly persecuted by my social studies teacher who happened to be an "upper caste Tam Brahm" and who made me slog for 7 years and made me carry huge work loads. Such a casteist school it was.

I am sure the above any lawyer will write down in colorful tones bringing in cow, curry and caste.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby disha » 15 Aug 2018 05:58

Kashi wrote:Asylum-based citizens are eligible for OCI?


No. Their kids are eligible though.


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