India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
mappunni
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 76
Joined: 14 Jul 2017 19:07

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 30 Sep 2018 13:34

g.sarkar wrote:I know a number of people that have brought their brothers and sisters in this way. But what is the benefit of waiting 10-15 years? It is too late for a man to start anew at that age. But green cards are not given to one person, the whole family gets it. So, he gets to bring all of his minor children, who can then get a good education here and get a good job. This works for Indians, who look for the long time benefit of his children. It is less effective for Europeans.
Gautam


Gautamji, My sister's kids ended up doing their Masters at some good schools. My sister and family were already living in Europe and were having business, so it was so much easier to transfer over. Similarly by BILs were working for Desi ITvity companies in India who were glad to move them over to US projects with no Visa hazzle. It worked out well for my family.

But agree it took a long time to get the GC for siblings.

mappunni
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 76
Joined: 14 Jul 2017 19:07

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 30 Sep 2018 13:39

ramana wrote:I spent a couple of weeks in Italy. I noticed not much awe of US. And resentment at $ domination.
I think Europe has had enough of wars and domination kool aid.
they just want a happy life.
Especially the Mediterraneans.


Ramana Sir, Did you notice the amounts of Beggardeshis in Rome and all the touristy spots like Venice, Pisa, Verano?

Chinese run lots of restaurants of the italian kind mostly staffed by Beggardeshis.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9854
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Sep 2018 16:45

Not sure I want to see that happen, sorry. Vive la Difference, etc. Migration from India to US is not driven by religious attraction or repression, except as claimed by the Khalistanis and maybe some desi Xtians. It is by and large economic/opportunity and perhaps, the lure of the vast open spaces. Likewise the reverse I hope will at some point be driven by economic equilibrium - by India going up, not Yoo Ess coming down, and living conditions that offer clean safe comfort with the added bonus of nosy neighbors and relatives who walk in unannounced. And peace and stability, law-abiding populace and government, and forward-looking mentality.

U move to the US/India if ur relatives are (not?) there and vice versa. :) Money is not an issue either way. If the open spaces of POK to Xinjiang and northern Arunachal aka "Tibet" are freed up so that there are open borders where the collapsed "PeeAllSee" used to be, it would be fantastic. I too dream of standing on a (nice and warm, Globally Warmed) Manasarovar beach "enjoying the wind whistling through the holes in my head" (quote from the sister of a famous mountaineer on what motivated her brother) and then getting back in my nice hybrid hydrogen SUV back on to the nice and easy TransHimalayan Highway to zip along at a sedate 150kmph between the immense peaks. Stopping for a peaceful "p"/ pakistan at the nice clean, shiny Rest Areas.

At present, as u indicate, "Hinduism" seems to be limited to the classic definition in the US children's books:
"I am Dileep. I am a Hindu and live in Dallas.
Hindus throw colored water on each other at Holi and celebrate Diwali".

Plus hordes of millions cramming poorly-prepared tiny places at "festivals" and having murderous stampedes and trashing the whole place. "Pilgrimage". The whole idea of "pilgrimage" as giving points towards Moksha, should be emphatically nixed.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5624
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Supratik » 30 Sep 2018 20:33

Reverse migration back to India is unlikely anytime soon. The pressure of competition is too high in India. Try getting an Indian-American kid to enter and get through IIT. People doing jobs abroad specially non-immigrant-to-citizen countries are sending their kids to US/Canada/Aus as the kids are unable to compete or don't want to compete in India or don't want to return to India. However, there is a trend of the higher skilled Indians who have migrated temporarily to return e.g. Ashoka University faculty are 90% foreign bred. Many entrepreneurs are returning as the market in India is under developed. Contrary to popular belief it is the higher skilled ones who are returning not the lower skilled ones. This will remain the trend. However, as India becomes stronger economically, opportunities improve and neighborhoods become livable and not slummy urban jungles the propensity or impetus to migrate will reduce. But, population pressure is going to be high for the near term (1.7-1.9 billion). So there will continue to be movement abroad.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6999
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 30 Sep 2018 21:43

Supratik wrote: But, population pressure is going to be high for the near term (1.7-1.9 billion). So there will continue to be movement abroad.


What are you talking about? India's population will never reach 1.7-1.9 billion. It will peak out at about 1.6+ in 2050, roughly 30 years from now, and then decline to 1.4+ billion by 2100.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5624
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Supratik » 30 Sep 2018 21:50

I have done the maths. At current rate it is going to be 1.9 billion plus. Just look up wiki to see latest numbers. Even if absolute numbers decline by 20 million each decade it will be 1.9 billion. Unfortunately it is still showing near 180 million this decade instead of the required less than 160 million. I still am hoping that a squeeze will come soon and it will peter out at 1.7 billion.

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6131
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Peregrine » 30 Sep 2018 22:21

India wants to have trade deal with US: Trump

WASHINGTON: President Donald Trump on Saturday said that India wants to have a trade deal with the US because it does not want him to impose tariffs on their products.

Trump's remarks, for the second time in recent weeks, comes days after Assistant US Trade Representative Mark Linscott returned from India where he had detailed discussion with senior Indian officials on bilateral trade and a possible trade deal between the two countries.

Trump often accuses India of imposing 100 per cent tariffs on American products.

"We have a country, take India. Good relationship. They want to make a deal now because they don't want me to do what I'm going to do, what I have to. So, they (Indians) call us. They didn't want to make a deal with anybody else," he said.

Trump referred to India in the context of his repeated allegation that other countries have been taking advantage of America in the past.

Trump in September said India wanted a trade deal with the US despite the US administration's tough stance on the issue.

"Take India. You talk about free trade. So, let's say they (Indians) charge us 60 per cent tariff on a product. And for the same product when they send it in (America), we charge them nothing. So now I want to charge them 25 per cent or 20 or 10 or something," Trump said.

"What do you think? That's not free trade. We don't like it. I said, where are these people coming from? So, think of it. Where are they coming from? You have no idea how difficult it is. Where are they coming?" Trump said referring to the conversations he is having with India.

Trump told the crowd that he is using India just as an example.

The president said he can give example of other countries which are "brutal" to what they do with the United States.

"I could give you (examples of) others that are brutal, just brutal what they do to us, how they take advantage of the stupidity. We never even had people negotiate, they just do whatever they want," Trump said as he went back to the India example.

"Remember this? A lot of the people that are fighting me in what I'm doing have ownership of companies in these other countries. Remember that please. Remember that, or they're represented by lobbies," Trump said, as he lashed out at those who are opposing his America First trade policies.

Trump said nobody wants to talk about the jobs created and nobody wants to talk about all the money that's flowing in to the coffers of the United States of America, he said.

"The people that are against it are usually having companies ... you know, you go to these other countries, they have companies there too," he alleged.

Cheers Image

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4665
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Neshant » 02 Oct 2018 17:22

Supratik wrote:I have done the maths. At current rate it is going to be 1.9 billion plus. .


Good Lord. That is an insane number of people.
But is the growth largely due to people living longer.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5624
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Supratik » 02 Oct 2018 17:40

India has reached close to replacement level of fertility except UP, Bihar and one community and some tribal groups. The current growth is due to what is known as population momentum. Imagine braking a car going at speed. It will only stop after some distance. But from what I see this decade there is slowdown in the braking. People are happy to have two kids and are not following western or China/Japan model of not marrying or not having kids. So the population trajectory may not match western/east asian countries. It may happen when India becomes more rich or if India starts copying western family values. If you factor in life expectancy then it could even reach 2 billion as life expectancy in India is low only around 68 whereas in advanced countries it is around 80. But there is still a few decades and population could suddenly stop growing.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19640
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 02 Oct 2018 17:57

Trump is worried about his Harleys mostly! So if we keep duties on superbikes-low which precious few in the cuoutry can afford ,and bat on regardless with cheap oil from Iran, Venezuela and use the latest payment methods worked out by the EU, Ru, China and Iran,by-passing US sanctions, we will look after our interests primarily and not that of the US.
The US establishment wants the test of the world to servile vassals permanently in thrall of the white massa and his minions.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5624
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Supratik » 02 Oct 2018 18:25

India has agreed to a trade deal with USA. If negotiated well it could be a win-win for both.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10039
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arun » 04 Oct 2018 18:12

X Posted from the Terroristan thread.

Kashi wrote:Pakistan seeks US role for talks with India, gets rejected.

…………………{Rest Snipped}…………………


8) Good to see attempt by the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan aka Terroristan to renege on the 1972 Shimla / Simla Agreement stipulation that there can be no third party mediation in bilateral matters involving India and Terroristan, is peremptorily thwarted by the US who toe India’s line and rebuff Terroristan’s attempt to involve the US as a third party mediator :rotfl: .

Meanwhile NDTV’s take on the same story put out by Economic Times:

For Talks With India, Pakistan Seeks US Help. Gets Rejected Again

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11983
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 05 Oct 2018 00:40

Moved all the TFR posts to Urban Development and Public Policy thread.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50759
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 05 Oct 2018 03:57

Supratik wrote:India has agreed to a trade deal with USA. If negotiated well it could be a win-win for both.

I don't know.
We see things in zero-sum game but it could be a trap to derail BRICS (40% world Population) which is going to be the biggest economic grouping.

Trade is being weaponized and we have Commerce Ministry fighting this battles.

A trade deal that limits India's flexibility to trade with countries where Indian goods have advantage for a access to US markets where they have no advantage is not useful.
Its win-lose for India.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63626
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 05 Oct 2018 07:30

Brics has been killed as a political bloc by chinese unilateral obor cpec stuff and blocking india from nsg

Brazil and SA are not gaining much weight. Indonesia is.

India russia stand united on many issues. Russia abstains where it concerns their lucrative deals with china

Bilateral deals with usa uk france italy germany soko japan are what might feed our tech needs for next phase

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5624
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Supratik » 05 Oct 2018 19:11

Ramana, IMO India will be looking at reduction in barriers for services exports, no dramatic checks on labor flow (source of remittances), and a pie of the manufacturing moving out of China. We have to see what the Americans want in exchange.

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 1237
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vips » 05 Oct 2018 19:47

US can nix BRICS or any other China influenced body by expanding the G7 grouping to include India, Brazil, South Africa and Russia or Indonesia.Can also substitute any of these countries to include GCC and ASEAN as a block.
Last edited by Vips on 05 Oct 2018 19:48, edited 1 time in total.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10039
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arun » 05 Oct 2018 19:48

X Posted from the India Russia thread.

How times have changed when it comes to being supported against Mohammadden Terrorism emanating from the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan targeting India.Russia cannot bring herself to name the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan and provides India faint support by pussyfooting around without naming the Islamic Republic and makes no mention of Pakistan sponsored terrorist attacks at Mumbai, Pathankot and Uri. On the other hand the US has no such inhibitions in naming and shaming the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan besides explicitly mentioning Pakistan sponsored terrorist attacks at Mumbai, Pathankot and Uri.

Indo Russia Statement dealing with Terrorism:

India-Russia Joint Statement during visit of President of Russia to India (October 05, 2018)
October 05, 2018

India-Russia: an Enduring Partnership in a Changing World …………..

The Sides declared their support to Afghan government’s efforts towards the realization of an Afghan-led, and Afghan-owned national peace reconciliation process. Concerned with the unabated violence and severely undermined security situation in Afghanistan and its adverse effect on the region, the Sides resolved to work through the Moscow Format, SCO Contact Group on Afghanistan, and all other recognized formats for an early resolution to the long-term conflict in Afghanistan, end to terroristviolence, external safe havens and sanctuaries for terrorists and the worsening drug problem in the country. Both Sides called upon the international community to join efforts to thwart any external interference in Afghanistan, to restore its economy, contribute to sustaining peace and security, economic and political development of a stable, secure, united, prosperous and independent Afghanistan. The two Sides will direct their activity to launchjoint development and capacity building projects in Afghanistan. ………………………..

The Sides denounced terrorism in all its forms and manifestations and reiterated the need to combat international terrorism with decisive and collective response without any double standards. The Sides agreed to converge their efforts to eradicate terrorist networks, their sources of financing, arms and fighters supply channels, to counter terrorist ideology, propaganda and recruitment. The Sides condemned all kinds of state support to terrorists including cross border terrorism and providing safe havens to terrorists and their network. Recognizing the importance of adopting the Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism, pending in the United Nations, to become part of the international law, both Sides called upon the international community to make sincere efforts towards its early conclusion. То address the threats of chemical and biological terrorism, the Sides supported and emphasized the need for launching multilateral negotiations at the Conference on Disarmament on an international convention for the suppression of acts of chemical and biological terrorism.

Clicky



For contrast the US Statement that goes hammer and tongs at the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan and names and shames them:

Joint Statement on the Inaugural India-U.S 2+2 Ministerial Dialogue
September 06, 2018 ………………………….

Welcoming the expansion of bilateral counter-terrorism cooperation, the Ministers announced their intent to increase information-sharing efforts on known or suspected terrorists and to implement UN Security Council Resolution 2396 on returning foreign terrorist fighters. They committed to enhance their ongoing cooperation in multilateral fora such as the UN and FATF. They reaffirmed their support for a UN Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism that will advance and strengthen the framework for global cooperation and reinforce the message that no cause or grievance justifies terrorism. The Ministers denounced any use of terrorist proxies in the region, and in this context, they called on Pakistan to ensure that the territory under its control is not used to launch terrorist attacks on other countries. On the eve of the 10-year anniversary of the 26/11 Mumbai attack, they called on Pakistan to bring to justice expeditiously the perpetrators of the Mumbai, Pathankot, Uri, and other cross-border terrorist attacks. The Ministers welcomed the launch of a bilateral dialogue on designation of terrorists in 2017, which is strengthening cooperation and action against terrorist groups, including Al-Qa’ida, ISIS, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Hizb-ul Mujahideen, the Haqqani Network, Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, D-Company, and their affiliates. The two sides further reaffirmed their commitment to ongoing and future cooperation to ensure a stable cyberspace environment and to prevent cyber-attacks.

Clicky

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50759
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 06 Oct 2018 00:19

Yes. All words from both. But understand both hammer and tongs are with US only. What India got were mere words. And the big terrorist enabler David Headley is passing quite life in US Prison safe from India gallows.
How about handing him over to India for trial?

Y. Kanan
BRFite
Posts: 694
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Y. Kanan » 06 Oct 2018 01:35

ramana wrote:Yes. All words from both. But understand both hammer and tongs are with US only. What India got were mere words. And the big terrorist enabler David Headley is passing quite life in US Prison safe from India gallows.
How about handing him over to India for trial?


We shouldn't buy any more US defense gear until the US hands over Headley and cuts off aid to Pakistan. Period. Full stop. End of f*cking story.

We don't need to keep kissing their a$$es and begging America's favor. Despite popular belief, the truth is they need us more than we need them, and that trend will only continue.

krishna_krishna
BRFite
Posts: 657
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 04:14

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 06 Oct 2018 05:11

arun wrote:X Posted from the India Russia thread.


For contrast the US Statement that goes hammer and tongs at the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan and names and shames them:

/quote]


Massa does that because it needs India more than porkis at this stage so the all talk no action. If massa wanted to help India they could easily force porkis to give up hafeez star, that would be the real litmus test. Otherwise rest is gober gas.

On a side note Russia sells india nuclear subs, s400 and sends nuclear subs to counter us carriers. Can / will massa think such things in their wildest yankee dreams ?

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6999
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 06 Oct 2018 06:15

But their subs are noisy, carriers are white elephants, and the S-400 is a paper tiger. Unkil is laughing in his boots as soon they will have counter measures for the S-400 from Turkey and India before any are deployed anywhere in the world in significant numbers.

krishna_krishna
BRFite
Posts: 657
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 04:14

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 06 Oct 2018 10:19

Mort Walker wrote:But their subs are noisy, carriers are white elephants, and the S-400 is a paper tiger. Unkil is laughing in his boots as soon they will have counter measures for the S-400 from Turkey and India before any are deployed anywhere in the world in significant numbers.


That may be but still makes uncle wet its diapers every now and then when the subs suffice near massa's tfta carriers or just a news that they were hiding on east coast for months.

S-400 if that is so paper tiger why are they shit scared about making public statements on such an high end weaponry will blunt its edge. Forget about S400 even older versions are enough to keep tfta airfare out of syriiaan air space.

If they could easy get counter measures from turkey so easily then well I don't have anything to say, you assume that bear will hand out the best to export versions sweet dreams in your la la land of invincibility.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17714
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 06 Oct 2018 10:40

krishna_krishna wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:But their subs are noisy, carriers are white elephants, and the S-400 is a paper tiger. Unkil is laughing in his boots as soon they will have counter measures for the S-400 from Turkey and India before any are deployed anywhere in the world in significant numbers.


That may be but still makes uncle wet its diapers every now and then when the subs suffice near massa's tfta carriers or just a news that they were hiding on east coast for months.

S-400 if that is so paper tiger why are they shit scared about making public statements on such an high end weaponry will blunt its edge. Forget about S400 even older versions are enough to keep tfta airfare out of syriiaan air space.

If they could easy get counter measures from turkey so easily then well I don't have anything to say, you assume that bear will hand out the best to export versions sweet dreams in your la la land of invincibility.


Turkey may just end up getting the famed russian "export" version of the S-400.

Somewhat lethal and mostly defanged but still fairly effective, nevertheless.

I think that the amerikis are worried stiff that the ruskies could record the radar signatures and other characteristics of the F-35s and reprogram the rest of their S-400 systems sold worldwide to provide a very credible defence against it or some similar action along these lines.

If true, it would simply tank billions upon billions of US investment in this new fighter system, maybe even render it toothless, and badly jeopardize their global sales potential and also seriously compromise the large inventory of this fighter in US military use.

I don't see any other reason for the amerikis to be so paranoid and panicked about one single and very specific russkie missile defence system. They are going after it worldwide, and systematically and trying to scare off every potential customer of the S-400. They have never done such a thing before.

The turkey system would be particularly troublesome for the US as NATO is bound to be operating a lot of F-35s, all well within the published range of the S-400 radars.

Conversely, the amerikis may be shaping up to hard sell the F-35s to India and they do not want the S-400 operating in this environment. If addressed together, the IAF and the IN potentially constitute one of the largest fighter markets in the world today

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63626
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 06 Oct 2018 11:37


Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6999
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 06 Oct 2018 11:42

I think that the amerikis are worried stiff that the ruskies could record the radar signatures and other characteristics of the F-35s and reprogram the rest of their S-400 systems sold worldwide to provide a very credible defence against it or some similar action along these lines.


It's actually the other way around. Countermeasures are probably already partially developed. The emissions of the S-400 are active and semi-active radar guidance and it will be easier for unkil to pick up these emissions and do a full spectral analysis in time and frequency domain once in Turkey, India, and few other friendly places have a few S-400 variants. The only reason unkil is objecting now is due to its own internal politics regarding Russia. The only thing that scares unkil about the Bear is its vast nuclear weapons, but not its conventional capability. Expect unkil to feign dismay and claim sanctions, but at the end of the day, they'll drop it for both Turkey and India for a few reasons.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10039
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arun » 06 Oct 2018 12:20

ramana wrote:Yes. All words from both. But understand both hammer and tongs are with US only. What India got were mere words. And the big terrorist enabler David Headley is passing quite life in US Prison safe from India gallows.
How about handing him over to India for trial?



Granted gallows escaped though at least one can rest content that Mohammadden Terrorist with roots in the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Daood Sayed Gilani aka David Coleman Headley, will spend the greater part, if not all, of 35 years in a US correctional facility.

If on the other hand the Russians had instead got hold of him, he would very likely have been deported back to the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan where if any punishment at all would have been fortcomming, it would have been incarceration in some luxury villa converted to a sub jail eating biryani and haleem.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10039
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arun » 06 Oct 2018 12:29

Below is what is purportedly the press statement issued by the US Embassy in New Delhi regards the Indo-Russian S400 deal and CAATSA.

Caveat; It has been extracted from the twitter feed of one Rishikesh Kumar, who identifies himself as a correspondent for Russian media outfit Sputnik (Clicky Twitter):

Image

Falijee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10948
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Falijee » 09 Oct 2018 03:21

Here’s Why India Might Secure An Anti-Iranian Sanctions Waiver From The US
Eurasia Future
Oct 8, 2018

The US doesn’t want to do anything that could risk Narendra Modi’s reelection next year such as inadvertently contributing to the explosive growth of petrol prices in his country, so it’s possible that Trump might grant America’s new strategic partner a waiver from the forthcoming anti-Iranian sanctions so long as India pledges to gradually reduce its purchases of the country’s resources like it’s already doing when it comes to Russian weaponry.
One of the biggest questions on everyone’s mind in Eurasia is whether the US will sanction India for its promise to continue purchasing Iranian resources after the reimposition of American sanctions against the Islamic Republic next month. It’s unclear at this time whether India is just saying that as a negotiating tactic in advance of entering into free trade talks with the US or if it’s actually sincere in its stated intentions, but this high-stakes game of geo-energy “chicken” is pushing Washington into deciding whether it should waive any forthcoming sanctions against New Delhi or not. Plenty of arguments have been made in predicting why this might not happen, but in the interests of presenting a contrarian analysis, the present piece will explain why this might indeed occur.
Bearing this in mind, that’s why the US will probably seek to reach a backroom deal with India in getting its counterpart to gradually reduce its purchase of Iranian resources in exchange for a sanctions waiver, similar in principle to what it could potentially do vis-à-vis New Delhi’s recent S-400 deal with Moscow as long as the country continues its trend of reducing Russian weapons purchases. The US would therefore be able to advance its Hybrid War designs against Iran without inadvertently destabilizing its Indian strategic partner through the sudden explosive growth of petrol prices that a “clean break” would trigger. Moreover, the US and Saudi Arabia might not have enough extra oil on hand to meet the demand that India would have if it cut off Iranian imports completely.
From the perspective of the New Cold War, the US’ main mission is to obstruct, control, or influence China’s New Silk Roads in order to prevent them from reengineering global trade routes to America’s hegemonic detriment, which is why it has an interest in using India as its “Lead From Behind” proxy in Central Asia. As such, the case can convincingly be made that the US has more to gain by turning a blind eye to India’s Iranian-transiting trade with Central Asia and Afghanistan via the NSTC and having New Delhi contribute to “containing” China and Pakistan there, respectively, than to sabotage this “promising” scenario out of blind hatred for Iran and an obsession with dealing as much economic pain to the country as possible.
Finally, the last argument that can be made in favor of the US granting India a waiver to its forthcoming anti-Iranian sanctions is that American grand strategic objectives are best served by ensuring that India remains in a relationship of complex interdependency with Washington’s Russian, Chinese, and Iranian rivals and doesn’t too solidly pivot to the Western camp. This might sound counterintuitive at first but it follows a certain logic. India’s fast-moving embrace of the US at the obvious expense of its Russian, Chinese, and Iranian partners’ economic and security interests would lead to them adapting to this new reality and learning how to function without their one-time partner, so it follows that the US can more effectively exploit its strategic partnership with India if the latter is still integral to them.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50759
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2018 06:06

ramana wrote:I spent a couple of weeks in Italy. I noticed not much awe of US. And resentment at $ domination.
I think Europe has had enough of wars and domination kool aid.
they just want a happy life.
Especially the Mediterraneans.


In response Stan sent me this


italy is more like pakistan and turkey... in many senses... its not just the ufc thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniting_for_Consensus), but also that they share a deep resentment with status quo (france and britain) as well as new powers that try to fill in the vacuum (aka germany)...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2735096/
here is a genetic-geographic map of EU... you can see the old anglo saxons on one quadrant (britain, ireland, netherlands, germany, north belgium)... and then you see spain and portugal taking a quadrant of their own... there is eastern europe and then there is italy-greece-turkey... all similar... in attitudes and behaviors and kinship and even tonality of languages...

fyi, france lies somewhere in between the first quadrant and the second...

over the last few years, i have had the luck and opportunity to see italy and spain close up... as well as greece, france, netherlands, belgium and a bit of germany... what i have seen is that... italians and greeks are often more stuck up... as in... they are uneasy in terms of who they are now... they realize their glorious past callously strewn around in their capitals (rome and athens are wonderlands for archaeologists) and their relatively shitty present and are left confused as to why development and prosperity left them behind... italy is far ahead of greece, especially with the recent economic crisis and all, but they are no different relative to other countries of western europe where prosperity is the main theme essentially...

the most carefree are the dutch and i dont just mean that in terms of their coffee houses.. they just dont give a shit... quite easy people.. relaxed, chilled out, taking care of one's health freakishly etc.. belgium changes as you go from the north to the south in france... this is the flemish-walloon distinction as well as the protestant-catholic separations... from north to south, it becomes more carefree to a bit of getting stuck up... if you see brussels which is pretty much a soul of wallonia in a frankish terrain, its confusing... and on top of that you have waves of immigration (legal, asylum seeking as well as illegal)...

in spain, there is a lot of confusion as to how to view gen. franco... the castillians (aka madrid-based ones) have to thank him.. but then they also realize a bit that gen. franco was an equal opportunity ass, not just for the catalans... in barca, its a bit of resentment, domination at home n mostly anarchy and confusion... i was not there to witness the post-referendum tamasha in barca, but i can see what it means to a good chunk of the people... whether they form a majority or not, it would be sweet comeuppance to see a catalunya as well as walloonia for all the crimes in latin america and congo...

as for south asians, i have seen that amsterdam is run over with nepalis... rome as well as much of italy is overrun with pakistanis and bangladeshis... i have seen a number of gujaratis in barca and madrid...

turks of course are easy to see in much of germany... and france and belgium are overrun with africans...

in greece and italy, as you closer to the adriatic, ionian and aegean terrains, resentment for brown and black skin becomes apparent.. i had been told that cops would like to check documents to see if you are an illegal randomly.. never encountered any of that though... but i did not wander around too much in sardinia or kalamata.. so what i heard was different from what i saw...

overall, the behaviors are just reflective of genetic, linguistic and cultural mindset... much of the US thinks that the world circles around them... i have hardly seen that attitude even in run down places in italy... for them, tourism is fine enough... they dont subscribe to the US' world view... and often find much of american behaviors quite bizarre... as far as jokers in political circles, there is a lot that italy shares with the "third world"... just look at silvio-san :))... its all fine and dandy...


g.sarkar
BRFite
Posts: 1655
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 11 Oct 2018 10:45

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 155724.cms
India will soon find out about my decision on CAATSA sanctions: Trump
PTI|Updated: Oct 11, 2018
NEW DELHI: President Donald Trump on Wednesday said that India "will soon find out" about his decision on the punitive CAATSA sanctions after India signed a USD 5 billion deal to purchase the much-vaunted S-400 air defence system from Russia.
Under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act or CAATSA sanctions, which was amended early this year, only Trump has the authority for the presidential waiver to India on weapons deal with sanctions-hit Russia.
India last week inked a USD 5 billion deal to purchase S-400 Triumf air defence system from Moscow. The mega deal was sealed in New Delhi during the visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin for the annual summit with Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
Asked about the agreement between India and Russia, Trump while interacting with reporters in the Oval Office of the White House, said, "India will find out. Aren't they?" "India is going to find out," he reiterated in response to India specific question. Asked when, he said, "You will see. Sooner than you think.
....
Gautam
I guess we are going to find out soon.

vimal
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 45
Joined: 27 Jul 2017 10:32

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vimal » 11 Oct 2018 10:58

Given that Putin has him by is b@lls he will do nothing. In fact he might give engine tech to India freely. :)

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2836
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chola » 11 Oct 2018 12:10

vimal wrote:Given that Putin has him by is b@lls he will do nothing. In fact he might give engine tech to India freely. :)


He will punish Russia (and us) just to show that the Russkies DON’T have him by his balls.

Come on, the guy is single-handedly punching the Dragon silly. Maybe he has a soft spot for desis (he seems to like Nikki.) But I wouldn’t hold my breath on that or the free engine tech.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 11 Oct 2018 12:18

chola wrote:
vimal wrote:Given that Putin has him by is b@lls he will do nothing. In fact he might give engine tech to India freely. :)


He will punish Russia (and us) just to show that the Russkies DON’T have him by his balls.

Come on, the guy is single-handedly punching the Dragon silly. Maybe he has a soft spot for desis (he seems to like Nikki.) But I wouldn’t hold my breath on that or the free engine tech.


In a way it's good if you guys do that, many people will be spared of their disillusionment.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3030
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 11 Oct 2018 12:41

Karthik S wrote:many people will be spared of their disillusionment.


Don't bet on that.

vimal
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 45
Joined: 27 Jul 2017 10:32

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vimal » 12 Oct 2018 09:11

Next time I will add "Sarcasm alert!"

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22038
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Austin » 12 Oct 2018 18:37

India's decision on buying oil from Iran, defence system from Iran, defence system from Russia not helpful: US

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5624
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Supratik » 13 Oct 2018 00:18

America's decision of backing Pakistan for 70 years is not helpful either.

Y. Kanan
BRFite
Posts: 694
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Y. Kanan » 13 Oct 2018 05:48

Austin wrote:India's decision on buying oil from Iran, defence system from Iran, defence system from Russia not helpful: US

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst



Outrageous hypocrisy. F*ck these people, seriously. I don't know about the rest of you, but I've had it with this bullying. It's humiliating.

Enough is enough with this "relationship". It's a one-sided affair where we get battered daily and keep coming back for more. This is Stockholm Syndrome on a national level.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 13 Oct 2018 08:19

Y. Kanan wrote:
Austin wrote:India's decision on buying oil from Iran, defence system from Iran, defence system from Russia not helpful: US

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst



Outrageous hypocrisy. F*ck these people, seriously. I don't know about the rest of you, but I've had it with this bullying. It's humiliating.

Enough is enough with this "relationship". It's a one-sided affair where we get battered daily and keep coming back for more. This is Stockholm Syndrome on a national level.


Oh year, tell that to people who were jumping up and down in favor of COMCASA right here in BRF.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ashokk, Avinash Rav, uskumar and 21 guests