India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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TKiran
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby TKiran » 16 Oct 2018 13:37

^^^^ I know it's difficult for you to watch the video complete, but there's answer to all your questions in the video

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 16 Oct 2018 13:41

^^
Sorry! I know it is painful for some to accept the truth that has been validated all over the world.

Even the US courts have accepted Yoga's hindu roots and the deluge of cases to get it off School menu are proof of an overwhelming majority Christian believers views on Yoga. You simply can't beat that! The mumbo jumbo of one or a few persons are not going to change the records.

Of course, I hope no Indian claims the root of "Goat Yoga" as Hindu. God forbid! And Gymnastics is not Yoga even if renamed as such. I don't worry about "American *inspired* stuff " like Goat yoga or Dog yoga or Duck yoga ... that some have tried to pass off as yoga.
Last edited by pankajs on 16 Oct 2018 13:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby TKiran » 16 Oct 2018 13:50

"The record in this case contains abundant evidence that contemporary yoga is commonly practiced in the United States for reasons that are entirely distinct from religious ideology," the court said.


This is what the court said, the moment you say Yoga is not for religious purposes, you lost your case.

Yoga is Hindu tradition whose only aim is moksha. The moment you say otherwise, you lost Yoga.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 16 Oct 2018 13:51

^^^
Sorry ... Shifting goalpost are we ....

Original
TKiran wrote:Actually, Yoga is American and Christian

V/S
TKiran wrote:This is what the court said, the moment you say Yoga is not for religious purposes, you lost your case.

Yoga is Hindu tradition whose only aim is moksha. The moment you say otherwise, you lost Yoga.

An "American Christian" practicing "secular" yoga does not make it "American and Christian" ... OTOH, him/her practicing "goat or dog" yoga makes no difference to me/Hindus/India/Indians.

So he/she will not get "Moksha" as you define it but it is no loss for Hindus or India. Big deal .... mera kya ... mujhe kya.
Last edited by pankajs on 16 Oct 2018 14:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby TKiran » 16 Oct 2018 14:00

^^^you have comprehension problem unable to decode the satire... I feel sorry for your problem. I sure could have helped you, if I could, but I can't.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby TKiran » 16 Oct 2018 14:03

^^^ don't plagiarize my style.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 16 Oct 2018 14:04

TKiran wrote:^^^you have comprehension problem unable to decode the satire... I feel sorry for your problem. I sure could have helped you, if I could, but I can't.

Sure you satire is so powerful that it fools you too. All one has to do is read your posts.

You definitely have a bigger comprehension problem than me. I am sorry for you TKiran. I sure would have liked to help you but I can't.

BTW one Tip TKiran: When you start getting personal instead of staying on the topic others can spot the loss of confidence on one's own points.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby TKiran » 16 Oct 2018 14:06

^^^ Don't plagiarize my style... It's ©

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 16 Oct 2018 14:07

Just stay on thread topic and not get too much into "satire" as you put it and you shall be fine.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby TKiran » 16 Oct 2018 14:45

People like you who are well meaning, patriotic, naieve and emotional are called by Rajiv Malhotra as "mumbo Jumbo vasudhaiva kutumbakam " type of hindus who don't understand the digestion of Hinduism by Christianity emanating from USA.

I will explain the "digestion" using Rajiv Malhotra's own example. Once a tiger eats and digests a deer, the DNA of the deer disappears, only the DNA of tiger remains. Hindus should be worried about this kind of "digestion".

"Mera kya... Mujhe kya..." attitude is naieve...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Oct 2018 15:42

both of you mean well, may i request you not to ruin the thread by taking your battles

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 16 Oct 2018 20:43

I would like to get back to the conversation I began here: viewtopic.php?p=2300324#p2300324

Misra wrote:having binge watched it myself i also recommend wild wild country on netflix. rajneesh’s era and methods were very different and he serves as a great foil to what, for example, someone like sadhguru is attempting today here in the US. sadhguru has indeed set up an institute of inner sciences in mcminneville, TN of all places. his isha foundation is also selling studios and homes near the ashram/institute. and he has hundreds of volunteer led programs going on all over the US. its really quite phenomenal but the success is not surprising. the thirst for the spiritual often begins once a certain level of comfort/affluence is attained by a society—you can’t talk spirituality to a starving person. and the US has been ripe for it for some time now. there are countless little temples and shrines dedicated to indian/hindu deities in kinds of places in the US—like a hanuman temple in taos, NM set up by followers of neem karoli baba

like i mentioned before on this forum, yoga/spirituality is the best way to ensure a certain kind of indianization closer to us here in the US. the approach of the rajneeshees in oregon was eventually confrontational and stemmed from an impulse to conquer. what is required is an approach that stems from an impulse to embrace—hence yoga. perhaps not fully compatible with your apparent desire to conquer america as well :)


Misra ji,
Why must we think in terms of "conquer"? It is the Mzzlmz who have two and only two modes: Dhimmitude (victimhood) and Conquest (domination). We are capable of many other ways of thinking and acting as a dharmic community.

Here is what I am proposing. Hindus moving to ND or WY will, true to our dharmic traditions, endeavour to be the best, most loyal, most productive North Dakotans and Wyomingites possible.

We will contribute our education, our penchant for hard work, our talents, our sense of financial responsibility to enhance the economic health of those states. We will be for the most part middle-class professionals, and our spending will invigorate their economies. Many of us may actually start businesses and support local job growth.

Further, we will engage, generously but unobtrusively, with all local communities. We will volunteer at every level from medical and veterinary camps in rural areas, to (non-politicized) environmental initiatives, to park cleanups, blood drives, SAT tutoring, disaster relief... whatever we can do to make ND and WY better for the people who already live there. We will be good neighbours, helpful when required, respecting everyone's privacy otherwise. In places where the nearest neighbour is often 10+ miles down the road, it's not that hard to be good neighbours :)

We will respect the culture of the locals, and ask only that our right to practice our traditions and way-of-life be respected in turn. We will not be in-your-face like the Rajneeshees, demanding that the names of streets be changed, or practicing free hex in public places (what stupidity!) In fact we will emphasize the commonality of social conservatism, family values, and fiscal responsibility that dharmics share with all except the most extreme EJ people in these states.

At the same time, we will resolutely assert ourselves through political engagement... not at the cost of anyone else, but to preserve and secure our own interests. We will caucus with both Republicans and Democrats in these states. We will ensure that no one who wants to be elected to Congress or Senate from ND or WY can ignore our interests. With 4 senate seats and 6 EC votes under our influence, no Presidential candidate will be able to ignore us either. What we lack in numbers in early days, we will make up for through our relative position of financial strength.

We will not be like Mzzlmz in Dearborn (Michigan), demanding that bars should remain closed on Fridays, or crowding public streets for namaaz. Our triumphs will never come at the expense of any other North Dakotan or Wyomingite. We have no requirement of "sharia" that challenges or confronts the law of the land, so why should we do anything like this? What interest do we have in "conquest"?

Yet, we will make sure that our history is appropriately taught in schools, that our temples are respected and our people are safe, and that our political representatives actively promote Hindu interests... not just in ND and WY, not just in DC, but the entire world over, even in terms of influencing US foreign policy towards India and her sphere of interest. Exactly as the Jews are able to do, through organizations like AIPAC.

This will have a chilling effect on other senators (from either party) who want to promote EJ efforts in India, for example. If we let our senators know how we feel about that, consensus to support things like USCIRF (at least with regards to India) will fall apart.

That is my vision. I mentioned the Rajneeshees because they showed what was possible through concentrated demographic and economic influence... even though they messed it up through their own Mzzlm-ish behaviour. Hindus do not have to be like that (in fact, we ARE not like that). There is no question of conquest. Only a different sense, rooted in dharmic values, of what it takes to make America great again.

That's my vision! Feel free to rip apart :)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 16 Oct 2018 20:52

Rudradev wrote:I would like to get back to the conversation I began here: viewtopic.php?p=2300324#p2300324

Misra wrote:having binge watched it myself i also recommend wild wild country on netflix. rajneesh’s era and methods were very different and he serves as a great foil to what, for example, someone like sadhguru is attempting today here in the US. sadhguru has indeed set up an institute of inner sciences in mcminneville, TN of all places. his isha foundation is also selling studios and homes near the ashram/institute. and he has hundreds of volunteer led programs going on all over the US. its really quite phenomenal but the success is not surprising. the thirst for the spiritual often begins once a certain level of comfort/affluence is attained by a society—you can’t talk spirituality to a starving person. and the US has been ripe for it for some time now. there are countless little temples and shrines dedicated to indian/hindu deities in kinds of places in the US—like a hanuman temple in taos, NM set up by followers of neem karoli baba

like i mentioned before on this forum, yoga/spirituality is the best way to ensure a certain kind of indianization closer to us here in the US. the approach of the rajneeshees in oregon was eventually confrontational and stemmed from an impulse to conquer. what is required is an approach that stems from an impulse to embrace—hence yoga. perhaps not fully compatible with your apparent desire to conquer america as well :)


Misra ji,
Why must we think in terms of "conquer"? It is the Mzzlmz who have two and only two modes: Dhimmitude (victimhood) and Conquest (domination). We are capable of many other ways of thinking and acting as a dharmic community.

Here is what I am proposing. Hindus moving to ND or WY will, true to our dharmic traditions, endeavour to be the best, most loyal, most productive North Dakotans and Wyomingites possible.

We will contribute our education, our penchant for hard work, our talents, our sense of financial responsibility to enhance the economic health of those states. We will be for the most part middle-class professionals, and our spending will invigorate their economies. Many of us may actually start businesses and support local job growth.


If history has thought us anything, it is that these kind of polite, soft approach to anything will be taken lightly, nobody will respect that. You are right dharmics will never think in terms of dar ul harb or dar ul islam, but our "boy next door" will not get us any influence in any senate.
PS: Not saying we have to change ourselves, but simply that the kind of people we are, we'll never wield any influence outside bharat's political spectrum, which itself is proving difficult.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 16 Oct 2018 21:43

g.sarkar wrote:Rudradevji,
I am not sure what you are saying. Do you mean to say that I should leave liberal California and settle down in god forsaken and cold North Dakota? or Wyoming (or Montana or Idaho)? Do you think I will like being surrounded by pot smoking and Church going incestuous Rednecks? Do you know that they welcome you by burning a cross in your front lawn?
No way Jose.
Gautam


Gautam ji,

The incestuous hillbilly Rednecks and burning crosses you speak of, are characteristic of the Bible Belt: Appalachia (WV down to KY/TN) and the Deep South. I would never suggest going there... not just because these are especially unfriendly, but because they are already too populous for us to make any difference.

The culture of the Midwest proper (IN, OH, IL, MI, WI, MN, KS, MO) is something quite different.

And the culture of the Great Plains states (like ND) and Rocky Mountain states (like WY) is yet again something different.

True, none of these places are as "comfortable" as the familiar coastal enclaves where you or I currently reside. Moving to such places will have challenges for sure, an adaptation to local cultures and customs. But neither is ND or WY the same as the hillbilly Bible Belt. People there like to be left alone and keep to themselves... that is fine, there is plenty of space for everybody. Look at the sizes of those states, relative to the numbers of people there.

Now let me ask you this. You speak of "Liberal California". I am sure it is "comfortable" there, but is it really, genuinely "liberal"?

In places where you and I currently live, yes, there are a lot of desis. Indian groceries and temples are within a short drive away. That gives the illusion that these are our natural homes away from home. Yet, we are a tiny minority in these areas. There are many, many other "minorites" in far greater numbers, mere blocks away. Hispanics, East Asians, Middle Easterners, Africans, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, you name it. And all those tribes taken together are STILL a minority compared to the blacks and whites who have far greater influence in the very same areas.

We have plenty of economic opportunity on the coasts. We work hard and strive for our children to go to the best private K-12 schools, the best universities. And you know what happens? From the first day of school, our children are set up for cultural conflict. We try our best to inculcate them with dharmic values at home... while at school, they are on the receiving end of a social-engineering agenda crafted by the Frankfurt School Marxists. Postmodern challenges to the very nature of identity. Western universalism. The so-called "liberal" dogma whereby certain categories of people (Mzzlmz, Dah-leets, etc.) are permanent victims while "Brahminism" is a hated oppressor class in line with White Supremacist Patriarchy.

The struggle is hard for young people who want to fit in. It is exhausting to keep defending something that you really have very little experience of, while all the time, the values of postmodernism and multiculturalism are being stuffed down your throat as the triumphal end-point of global civilization. Much of the time this leads to growing up "spiritual but not religious", "culturally Hindu but religiously unaffiliated", etc.

I can name three family members of my niece/nephew generation who grew up in the US and have married outside the Hindu fold. Only one who has married within it.

By the second generation something like 80% of Americans with Hindu ancestry are marrying non-Hindus.

What is the result of all this?

The best, the VERY BEST that Hindu Americans from the "liberal" Coastal Enclaves can hope for in terms of political representation is: Ro Khanna. Pramila Jayapal. And of course our Great White Dharmic Saviour, Tulsi Gabbard, who dropped the World Hindu Congress like a hot potato when attacked by Mzzlmz and EJ-friendly groups of the BIF. She reneged on her invitation to appear as Chairperson of the WHC, citing the presence of "partisan political leaders" at the event... and only days later, attended another Indian-American event organized and populated by Congressis. So much for that.

Illinois' Raja Krishnamoorthi... the ONLY US Congressman with the guts to stand up to the anti-Hindu BIFs and speak before the WHC... deserves an honourable mention in this regard. ALL the others are faaar too afraid of appearing pro-India or pro-Hindu to lift a finger in our interests, even symbolically. Many will do the Preet Bharara thing and bend over backwards to victimize Hindus and assist our opponents just to prove how cosmopolitan they are as Americans.

And all of these are mere Congresspersons from the "liberal" Coastal Enclaves. Forget about anything resembling a pro-Hindu senator or President. Kamala Harris, who is much in the news these days, was born to a Tamil Hindu mother who married a Jamaican (?) Baptist, promptly converted to his faith, and raised his daughter in that tradition. She has next to zero affinity for us.

As for the Republicans of the Bible Belt: Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley, you can see how Dharmic they are.

The ONLY way we can increase our political clout is to be the constituency that senators, congressmen, and presidential candidates cannot afford to ignore or alienate. This is not going to be possible in our comfortable coastal enclaves.
Last edited by Rudradev on 16 Oct 2018 21:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 16 Oct 2018 21:44

Karthik S wrote:
Rudradev wrote:I would like to get back to the conversation I began here: viewtopic.php?p=2300324#p2300324



Misra ji,
Why must we think in terms of "conquer"? It is the Mzzlmz who have two and only two modes: Dhimmitude (victimhood) and Conquest (domination). We are capable of many other ways of thinking and acting as a dharmic community.

Here is what I am proposing. Hindus moving to ND or WY will, true to our dharmic traditions, endeavour to be the best, most loyal, most productive North Dakotans and Wyomingites possible.

We will contribute our education, our penchant for hard work, our talents, our sense of financial responsibility to enhance the economic health of those states. We will be for the most part middle-class professionals, and our spending will invigorate their economies. Many of us may actually start businesses and support local job growth.


If history has thought us anything, it is that these kind of polite, soft approach to anything will be taken lightly, nobody will respect that. You are right dharmics will never think in terms of dar ul harb or dar ul islam, but our "boy next door" will not get us any influence in any senate.
PS: Not saying we have to change ourselves, but simply that the kind of people we are, we'll never wield any influence outside bharat's political spectrum, which itself is proving difficult.



Please read my entire post before you take one thing out of context and claim it to be my whole prescription. I am saying we will contribute to our states, we will not alienate the locals, AND we will assert ourselves politically through active measures. Only a Mzzlm would not be able to comprehend that all these things are possible at the same time.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 16 Oct 2018 21:50

Rudradev wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
If history has thought us anything, it is that these kind of polite, soft approach to anything will be taken lightly, nobody will respect that. You are right dharmics will never think in terms of dar ul harb or dar ul islam, but our "boy next door" will not get us any influence in any senate.
PS: Not saying we have to change ourselves, but simply that the kind of people we are, we'll never wield any influence outside bharat's political spectrum, which itself is proving difficult.



Please read my entire post before you take one thing out of context and claim it to be my whole prescription. I am saying we will contribute to our states, we will not alienate the locals, AND we will assert ourselves politically through active measures. Only a Mzzlm would not be able to comprehend that all these things are possible at the same time.


This is the same thing I said, for us, the kind of people we are i.e. hard working and other attributes you mentioned, political assertiveness isn't possible and isn't going to happen.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 16 Oct 2018 21:59

You are wrong, sir. Read UlanBatori's post in the "Understanding the US Thread" about the Rapid Response Team, organized by Ram Narayanan of Buffalo, NY during the Kargil War era. I was part of it too. We did not fix everything, but we achieved more than we could have expected by being politically assertive. We definitely achieved more than we would have if we never tried.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 16 Oct 2018 22:45

TKiran, You have a knack of derailing threads. please exercise some self restraint.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 16 Oct 2018 22:56

RD, Just to point out recently and elderly Hindu person was beaten up in central California by a youth. turned out the perpetrator was the son of a Ca city Police chief.
So hate is abundant.
One plan that can be implemented is to support local Congressman in the area one lives in. They come up for election every two years.

BTW you have forgotten Ami Bera who is consistently getting elected since 2010. And very personable guy and keeps abreast of changes in technology and impact on economy. Not high profile but quiet doer.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 17 Oct 2018 01:12

Ramanaji,
I looked up the case and found out that the perpetrator is an African-american and also the father who is a San Francisco Bay Area police chief, is assisting the police. The motive is robbery on a 71 year old man.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/darryl-mca ... er-attack/
Both Manteca and Turlock (the site of the second incident) are near where I live.
Gautam

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Misra » 17 Oct 2018 01:31

Rudradev wrote:I would like to get back to the conversation I began here: viewtopic.php?p=2300324#p2300324

Misra wrote:...
like i mentioned before on this forum, yoga/spirituality is the best way to ensure a certain kind of indianization closer to us here in the US. the approach of the rajneeshees in oregon was eventually confrontational and stemmed from an impulse to conquer. what is required is an approach that stems from an impulse to embrace—hence yoga. perhaps not fully compatible with your apparent desire to conquer america as well :)


Misra ji,
Why must we think in terms of "conquer"? It is the Mzzlmz who have two and only two modes: Dhimmitude (victimhood) and Conquest (domination). We are capable of many other ways of thinking and acting as a dharmic community.

Here is what I am proposing.
...

That's my vision! Feel free to rip apart :)


rudradev ji,

all of us have an inherent yearning to enhance life by including something/someone else in our experience. indians/indics have known for long that there are only two ways in which what is not in our experience can be included in it: conquest or embrace. in that context, it seems to me that your vision is essentially an extension of your yearning to include america/americans in your larger experience

conquest can be expressed in many ways not just militarily. it is basically a survival mode. so earning to feed oneself is a kind of conquest, too. so is acquiring things material, sometimes called shopping. militarily/politically, conquest engenders resistance. unless the defeated side is completely wiped out, those resisting will always raise the cost of conquest and can stick around for a long long time—e.g., it’s taken over 400 years to revert allahabad to prayagraj

embrace is not limited to hugs. though metaphorically vasudhaiva kutumbakam can be passed off as one big hug. yoga is the consequence of consciously expanding one’s experience to include progressively larger slices of life, larger hugs. in many ways it leads to a much less externally abrasive and much more internally rewarding state of being

in my view, your vision necessitates a certain level of organization of indian immigrants that mimics that of some other seemingly politically savvy/successful communities in the US. while it is natural to want to emulate success, what is successful is not always what’s appropriate. the embrace of america/americans by ‘indianness’ seems to be an ongoing and organic process. in my view, attempts to impose a structure/hierarchy on it may rob it of the very indianness that we seek to propagate around us. note that arguably the reason this indianness has survived centuries of onslaught in india itself was precisely because there was no organized structure to it

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 17 Oct 2018 09:49

g.sarkar wrote:Mortji,
A good friend of mine, who happens to be African-american, worked with me in Corrections. He retired as a parole agent and is now with Child Protective Agency in Houston, TX. He tells me that there are still counties in Texas where blacks are not allowed to stay after sun-down. As an ex Californian, he has to be very careful about where he goes. Houston is OK, but the neighboring counties could be dangerous for him.
Arjunji, as ex-peace officers we all keep fire-arms at home, no permission is required.
Gautam


Having traveled by road through state highways from eastern Colorado all the way through Georgia, I will say that your friend describes what it was through the 1970s. Most of Texas is now experiencing urban or suburban sprawl. Economic growth has been the mantra in Texas. The governor, a Republican, Greg Abott in the last year has visited India and even met with Modji to push India-Texas commercial ties. Everything from oil and gas to Mahindra’s North American headquarters in Texas, to welcoming Infosys. He’s been on record to welcome immigrants from India.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas-politics/2018/03/24/greg-abbott-india-governor-first-lady-draped-marigolds-mumbai

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby disha » 17 Oct 2018 10:04

All of what Rudradev'ji said is possible only when Desis have pride in their own culture and way of life. The newer generation desis have seldom read Ramayana or Mahabharata and go around asking questions like "show me one single contemporary of Shakespeare in India" when told the great literary achievements of Indians. When told that half of the population on earth owes their lives to a single desi (Dr. Yellapragada Subbarow) they scoff and call you ignorant and retarded jingo.

For Desis to achieve something, they need to get some spine in first place. After that some confidence and then some belief.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 17 Oct 2018 10:17

Mort Walker wrote:Having traveled by road through state highways from eastern Colorado all the way through Georgia, I will say that your friend describes what it was through the 1970s. Most of Texas is now experiencing urban or suburban sprawl. Economic growth has been the mantra in Texas. The governor, a Republican, Greg Abott in the last year has visited India and even met with Modji to push India-Texas commercial ties. Everything from oil and gas to Mahindra’s North American headquarters in Texas, to welcoming Infosys. He’s been on record to welcome immigrants from India.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas-politics/2018/03/24/greg-abbott-india-governor-first-lady-draped-marigolds-mumbai

Mortji,
This is not 1970, it is Texas 2018. If you want, I can ask my friend the names of the counties where there is still a sundown law.
Gautam

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 Oct 2018 10:22

^^in this conversation my question may be slightly OT, but does anyone know of the origins of soft proscription of sea travel in hinduism. There are many mainstream stories, e.g., about ramanujam and vivekanad talk about it. I have always countered it using
1. Ramayan stories of sea travel of shriram and hanuman
2. historical sea travel from days of harrappa and continuity
3. sparsity of veg food, which was common for brahmins

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 17 Oct 2018 11:06

Mort Walker wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:Mortji,
A good friend of mine, who happens to be African-american, worked with me in Corrections. He retired as a parole agent and is now with Child Protective Agency in Houston, TX. He tells me that there are still counties in Texas where blacks are not allowed to stay after sun-down. As an ex Californian, he has to be very careful about where he goes. Houston is OK, but the neighboring counties could be dangerous for him.
Arjunji, as ex-peace officers we all keep fire-arms at home, no permission is required.
Gautam


Gautamji,
Have lived in Texas for over a decade plus. The sun down laws are you talking about is from the Jim Crow era. During my drives to visit family in San Antonio or Houston, I avoid interstate highways and take state highway weaving thru small town Texas and even have stayed at B&B in small Hill county towns. No form of overt racism exists. Most of the convenience stores and gas stations are owned and operated by Indians, mind you I am talking about really small towns.

You might have been told wrong information about Sun down laws.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 17 Oct 2018 11:10

Mortji,
The city where I live Frisco TX, after English speakers, next comes Telugu speakers and then Spanish speakers. And Frisco TX is the fastest growing city in the US.

Governor Abott has high regards for Indians as good folks contributing towards a vibrant Texas.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 17 Oct 2018 18:27

mappunni wrote:Mortji,
The city where I live Frisco TX, after English speakers, next comes Telugu speakers and then Spanish speakers. And Frisco TX is the fastest growing city in the US.

Governor Abott has high regards for Indians as good folks contributing towards a vibrant Texas.


Mappunniji,

Living nearby I eat at Chennai cafe every few months and visit your Hanuman temple. So I know exactly what you talk about. My wife and I will probably retire near Frisco in the next decade. I have seen your town grow up since the late 1980s. What Gautam is talking about has been in the past of in parts of east Texas. I also visit down near south Austin to Salt Lick BBQ next to Barsanadham Asharam!

BTW, Abbott was trying to get American Airlines and Air India to get direct non stop flights from DFW to DEL in order to push India Texas commerce.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 17 Oct 2018 22:03

Karthik S Please start the discussion here

viewtopic.php?p=2300054#p2300054

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 18 Oct 2018 01:39

mappunni wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:

Gautamji,
Have lived in Texas for over a decade plus. The sun down laws are you talking about is from the Jim Crow era. During my drives to visit family in San Antonio or Houston, I avoid interstate highways and take state highway weaving thru small town Texas and even have stayed at B&B in small Hill county towns. No form of overt racism exists. Most of the convenience stores and gas stations are owned and operated by Indians, mind you I am talking about really small towns.
You might have been told wrong information about Sun down laws.

Mappunniji,
Let me get back to you on this.
Gautam

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Oct 2018 01:53

ArjunPandit wrote:^^in this conversation my question may be slightly OT, but does anyone know of the origins of soft proscription of sea travel in hinduism. There are many mainstream stories, e.g., about ramanujam and vivekanad talk about it. I have always countered it using
1. Ramayan stories of sea travel of shriram and hanuman
2. historical sea travel from days of harrappa and continuity
3. sparsity of veg food, which was common for brahmins


Philip Mason in his work on the history of the British Indian Army, ""A Matter of Honour - An Account of the Indian Army, its officers & men" notes an episode where sailors were recruited from some community in (what is now) Tamil Nadu for a campaign in the Bay of Bengal. Conditions were horrible and many sickened and died. The next time the British tried to recruit from that community, they were politely told that no one would sign up, it was against their religion.

PS: note that e.g., Singapore was settled by Hindus who went by sea travel.

PPS: interesting article: https://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/s ... temid=3065

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 18 Oct 2018 05:16

Ok. No more continuation.
Thanks.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cybaru » 18 Oct 2018 05:35

Wow, this looks like the nukkad thread, I generally don't stop by here, but wanted to see if there were going to be some sanction responses to s-400..

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 18 Oct 2018 06:09

How about you tell your views?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 18 Oct 2018 07:37

I second Cybaru. This topic, while interesting in itself, seems more suited to the "understanding US" thread. Too many times has this thread derailed and mods seem okay with it for whatever reasons.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Oct 2018 07:44

Rudradev wrote:You are wrong, sir. Read UlanBatori's post in the "Understanding the US Thread" about the Rapid Response Team, organized by Ram Narayanan of Buffalo, NY during the Kargil War era. I was part of it too. We did not fix everything, but we achieved more than we could have expected by being politically assertive. We definitely achieved more than we would have if we never tried.

rdji, interesting post.
In those days it seemed way too dangerous to ask who was who.
There was a Ranjit XXX there, any idea what became of him? Exceptionally sharp and fast writer, his logic was razor-sharp. But all these armchair warriors speculating on what can be done have no idea how much we actually got done. That RR team was a powerful concept: if we could ever extend that to a national/global network and hit every paki-type editorial, we could swamp "mainstream media" much better than even the "Y" do.

One big idea that I had (never had time to pursue!) was to preserve all the letters we wrote, and just post them on our own sites instead of having them do into the black holes of the idiot editors. One could really trash some of the twerps such as NYT, instead of being disapointed that they don't publish our letters. My own strategy evolved quickly to make sure my letters caused more ulcers and led them to earlier deaths, rather than trying to play on their grounds by their rules.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 18 Oct 2018 17:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 18 Oct 2018 09:02

Mort Walker wrote:
Mappunniji,

Living nearby I eat at Chennai cafe every few months and visit your Hanuman temple. So I know exactly what you talk about. My wife and I will probably retire near Frisco in the next decade. I have seen your town grow up since the late 1980s. What Gautam is talking about has been in the past of in parts of east Texas. I also visit down near south Austin to Salt Lick BBQ next to Barsanadham Asharam!

BTW, Abbott was trying to get American Airlines and Air India to get direct non stop flights from DFW to DEL in order to push India Texas commerce.


Mortji,
Hahahahaha. Welcome!! There is also a Mallu Krishna temple in Carrollton area which you also want to visit. Friends who work at AA tell me chances of AA getting non-stops to anywhere in India is out of the question at least for now.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 18 Oct 2018 09:20

Mmm, UBji, maybe some things aren't totally safe to mention even after all these years, so you might want to edit that section of the post accordingly. :eek:

I do remember a Ranjit who was especially incisive. No idea what became of him or any of the rest, though (and no way for me to look up RRT contacts or archived material, because I stopped using the relevant hotmail ID a long time ago and then got locked out of it). Maybe RamN knows? I'm not even sure where he is, or if still active anymore. All hail to him, though.

Yes, an amazing amount was achieved for a time when there was no social media, no "comments" section after every online article, precious few online discussion boards... when emails often seemingly went straight into the void (to be really sure someone was reading a response, you had to use snailmail or Fax... I remember reaching Ted Koppel on ABC Nightline that way). Pre facebook, twitter, youtube, whatsapp or any of the myriad channels that the internet now provides for the common web user to speak truth (or, often, dung) to power.

I think it may have been the first time Constable, Crossette, Margolis, Amanpour & the like had ever heard from Indians outside the charmed circle of native informants they cultivated in Lutyens Delhi. The shock must have beggared their (already poor) imaginations.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 18 Oct 2018 09:50

a concrete example of DT tariffs hurting cheen ecosystem. the co is ARRIS - a sort of coalition of network equipment cos I am familiar with - ruckus wireless is also part of them. they have a SW development office near ulsoor lake here.

https://www.lightreading.com/cable/cabl ... n=10172018

"The China Tariffs impose additional costs on broadband devices and infrastructure equipment, ultimately taxing US businesses and consumers and increasing the cost of providing competitive internet services," an Arris spokesperson said in a statement to Light Reading. "The only viable long term solution to the issue is to move production and supply chain for these devices and equipment outside of China. ARRIS is working aggressively with our partners and suppliers to make these changes as quickly as possible, and expect to be complete in 1H19."

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby SSridhar » 18 Oct 2018 11:15

X-posted from IFP thread . . .
Putin visit revitalises India-Russia ties - G.Parthasarathy, Business Line
The United States believed that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, a new Russia could be brought to its knees by economic pressures and political manoeuvres. Washington sought to see that Moscow’s leadership remained in the hands of individuals like the occasionally sober President Boris Yeltsin. They had not counted on a young former KGB agent Vladimir Putin assuming leadership, determined to restore Russia’s influence in the emerging world order.

Putin thwarted US backed initiatives to undermine Russian influence in neighbouring former Soviet Republics, like Georgia and Ukraine, where Russia annexed its erstwhile naval base in Crimea. He thereafter used military assistance to successfully back the secular Syrian Government of Bashar al Assad, against American backed Islamic fundamentalists.

Successive governments in India have wisely not made the mistake of underestimating the power and influence of a new Russia
, emerging from the ashes of the Soviet Union. While trade and investment ties with Russia have been limited in recent years, the Russians have remained reliable suppliers of frontline defence equipment to India, at competitive prices.

India has also joined forums like BRICS and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, where it can exchange views with both Russia and China, on issues of security and economic cooperation, particularly across the Eurasian land mass. Moreover, given the rise of an aggressive and assertive China, our economic, diplomatic and military ties with the US, Japan and the EU have been significantly strengthened.

But, things have now come to a head, with the passing of American legislation “CAATSA,” to impose sanctions against countries that buy sophisticated weapons systems from Russia. This is as much to “punish” Russia as to “enrich” the American arms industry! American officials have testified in the US Congress confirming that one of the main aims of CAATSA is to wean countries away from Russian arms purchases and turn to the US.

Long-standing friend

Russia has remained a major partner for five decades now, as a reliable supplier of defence equipment and diplomatic support, especially in difficult times. Moreover, Russian cooperation in crucial areas, like our space programme continued, even when the Americans imposed sanctions on India, after its nuclear tests. It was the inability of the US to isolate India globally, because of support from countries like Russia and France that led to Washington ending sanctions. {The underlined part may not be entirely true, but there is no doubt about the support from these countries} Washington thereafter designated India as valued “partner” across the “Indo-Pacific,” primarily to balance and counter a territorially aggressive and economically assertive China.

The last two decades have seen a significant turnaround in India-US relations. American arms supplies to India, estimated at $18 billion, have included sales of maritime patrol aircraft, 130 mm. artillery guns, C17 and C130 Transport aircraft and Apache Attack Helicopters. Moreover, further acquisitions from the US are under consideration. This is apart from bilateral agreements for practical military cooperation, and an unprecedented military basing agreement. Joint exercises between the militaries of India and the US are now a regular feature. While India shares some strategic objectives with the US, we cannot agree to give the US the right to veto our acquisitions from Russia, thereby adversely affecting our national security. The US made it clear that India opens itself to American sanctions if it undertakes any move to acquire the much-needed S400 Air Defence Missiles from Russia.

These missiles are unquestionably the best defences we can acquire to defend the Capital Delhi, other cities and strategic defence targets against attacks by missiles or aircraft, launched against them. Even the US does not possess such a missile defence system, which we need now more than ever, especially given the depleted strength of our Air Force.

China has already been targeted by the recent American legislation for acquiring the S400 Missile defence system and the SU 35 advanced fighter aircraft. US President Donald Trump has warned that India will “find out” how the US will react to the S300 Agreement “sooner than you think”.

While the S400 missile defence deal, could be subjected to American sanctions, there can be no question of us demeaning ourselves, by going with a virtual begging bowl to the Americans, asking them not to apply sanctions, on every arms deal, we propose to sign with Russia. We should bear in mind that there are several crucial weapons systems where we have decided, in principle, will be acquired from Russia.

Crucial weapons systems

These crucial weapons systems include lease of another nuclear attack (SSN) Submarine, over 200 Light Helicopters to be built in India, four naval frigates, conventional submarines to be largely built in Indian shipyards, and an estimated 6,00,000 AK103 assault rifles, also to be made in India. Our Jawans urgently need these rifles, as the present weapons they carry are far from satisfactory.

Following the recent American sanctions on arms purchases from Russia, India was faced with the prospect of its leading banks, with large dollar holdings, facing crippling American sanctions, if they made payments for large arms purchases from Russia. The only viable alternative for India and Russia was to devise measures to avoid and sidestep possible American pressures. We have now reportedly devised measures to face up to the threat of American financial sanctions.

One agreement signed during the Putin visit received little attention. This was an agreement reportedly between three Indian banks — Syndicate Bank, Indian Bank and Vijaya Bank — and Russia’s “Sberbank”. The Agreement reportedly facilitates payments for all Defence related transactions between India and Russia, not in the “Almighty” American dollar, but in rupees and Russian roubles. It remains to be seen whether and what sanctions Indian defence organisations involved in such transactions will be subjected to. Many of them could ironically be essential partners in any defence deal, which India decides to sign with the US also!

Three decades ago, the US threatened to cut off fuel supplies of enriched uranium for India’s Tarapur nuclear power plant, unless we agreed to place all our nuclear facilities under international safeguards. The then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi refused to oblige and turned to France for supply of nuclear fuel. Two decades later, former US President George Bush ended all unilateral nuclear restrictions on India.

One hopes that this will be remembered by the US, when it comes to its ill-advised sanctions on acquisitions of Russian arms by key Asian countries like Vietnam and Indonesia also. India, Vietnam, Indonesia, and the US, will derive no benefit from application of the present ill-advised American sanctions.

The writer is former High Commissioner of Pakistan



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