India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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krishna_krishna
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 01 Aug 2019 03:32

Rudradev wrote:
I do not agree with this assessment,

Here's my take on this.

The US will never get out of Afghanistan. Never, not for any reason.

The answer is clear. The US wants to continue its post 9/11 relationship with Pakistan, because it intends to sustain indefinitely its post 9/11 presence in Afghanistan (with the option to ramp up even further if required). The Krrachi route must remain open.


Rdevji, my Pranams for detailed reasoning as usual.I agree with some points that you raised and don’t on some.

Let me begin with where I agree with you, when Obama announced that date of withdrawal and during end of that term I had conversation with a gentleman who was retiring from his 3 or 4th deployment in Afghanistan. His exact words were “ We will have some presence there, that is how it is being planned”. So to that point I agree that Umbrica plans to never leave that place and always have that outpost and for that to viable assured supply route via porkistan must be open and available.This is where a price is paid by massa to porkistan with this new immy dummy love(nothing new this arrangement was going on for sometime), I am in agreement till this point.

Now I also believe Umbricka lost to talibunnies, even though they will never admit it publicly so hence a face saving route is needed with an agreement with them (Tbunnies)to allow their few bases to function without any threat from the bunnies.This is where game is messed up, bunnies want every massa soldier/contractor/even garbage bin out of their country as first condition to have any dialogue (you know how many rounds have happened).Till that is not agreed they will make life of massa hell.If you read porky army’position they also want this to happen and so does China.

What porkistan will do is continue chai biscuit and promise to bring bunnies to negotiating table and gather baksheeh as usual.Since they have some control but not full, this most they can promise.

What I see in the end is massa winding up this outpost one day, not now but may be five years from now or till they regularly pay to porkistan and are ready to gather body bags of soldiers/contractors at regular intervals. We know how is that appetite of massa on body bags.

This is good for India in the long run , will post part II on that

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby kit » 01 Aug 2019 03:58

I think the porkis and Americans hold each other balls and no signs on letting it go., all the porkis need to get the Americans to go back in is a little talibunny attack by the ISI where it hurts most., America predictably goes right back to Afghanistan and stays put... maybe america will bankroll chinese projects in porkistan :mrgreen:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chanakyaa » 01 Aug 2019 08:08

krishna_krishna wrote:Straight from horse’s mouth, us and nato forces to leave Afghanistan by November 2020:
...

Krishna-ji, RD saar provided a nice analysis, but from a timing perspective, such headlines in MSM have consistently proved one and only thing and that is "elections are just around the corner". "Brining troops home", "Abortion", "Guns", "Yesus", "Eyeran (some bogeyman)", "Immigrants" are all in preparation of debates and upcoming elections. POTUS goes in front of the crowd saying that he is keeping his election promise, crowd claps, elections are won, and people forget to ask what happened to troop reduction. Out of curiosity, I tried to pull various articles to calculate a base number of troops and various increases/decreases from public announcements and you can't get final number to match (not counting private contractors), assuming the final number itself is reliable.

This is what you SAY when running for POTUS
This is what you DO when you are POTUS
This is what you SAY when running for Re-Election

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Anujan » 01 Aug 2019 09:07

I am not sure if US forces will continue to stay in Afghanistan.

The taliban have made it clear that negotiations will go in two phases.
1. US forces withdraw from Afghanistan
2. Taliban negotiates with elected government in afghanistan

US does not really care about (2). Whether democracy lives or dies or a warlord rules. For (1), the acceptable bargain is to ensure that Afghanistan does not become a base for attacks against the US. Not western interests, US. DT has indicated that US will pursue its own security, and is not really interested in taking NATO countries along with him. So the likely bargain is that US forces withdraw, taliban guarantees that Afghanistan will not be used as a base for attacks against the US. DT declares victory. Taliban enjoy actual victory and go on to overthrow the democratically elected government. Preparations are being made for this, consider the suicide attack on Saleh just before elections.

If this is the deal, then it imposes two dilemmas.

1. If US forces (or contractors of whoever) stay in afghanistan, how to ensure their security? Because it is clear that afghan army cannot fight off the taliban by themselves, and therefore the democratic government should kneel to taliban. Which means taliban is in power and they wanted US forces out and they can make life very difficult for US

2. Then how to enforce the deal?

US will strike a grand bargain with Pakistan, to take over one of their bases for a permanent presence. Somewhat like SOKO or West Germany. And they will treat afghanistan like NoKo.

This benefits Pakistan. For all their bravado (If US does not give money, Pakistan will take money from China and will embrace china etc etc.), US has demonstrated to Pakistan that they can trample Pakistan's economy by holding up CSF, getting Pakistan into trouble in multilateral financial institutions (like FATF) and if all that fails, cosy up to India and make sure that no F16s work during the next Balakot. Pakistan has learned that China cannot replace US, Saudi-US nexus is the only thing that can keep their economy and security afloat. So Pakis will hand over Jacobabad for $2B rent per year. Pakistan has realized its economy and security is built on GUBO to US.

US will occupy Jacobabad to keep an eye on China, Iran, make sure Telebunnies are sticking to their part of the deal.

There is no strategic or economic reason for US to stay in Afghanistan. There are a 1000 strategic reasons for US to get bases in Pakistan.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Aug 2019 14:52

^^anujan ji..few questions for you
1. wouldnt needling russia iran and china by just being there a good enough reason to be in afghanistan...ok waging a multi trillion war is certainly not good enough..
2. i agree with last part of being in pakistan and taking over jalalabad..but wouldnt the increased chinese presence pose a challenge?
3. What happens to indian gunships gifted to afghanistan...
4. if it goes that ways..then dont you think it is huge + to pakistan, not dhoti shivering, but pretty much everyone: US, Russia and china will be on the side of talibunny and paki..only India will be left with the national govt.I dont think things are as close with Iran as they were in past..but lets see..
Next question is what does pakis do with this new kinematics... lets keep the powder dry..

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Anujan » 02 Aug 2019 00:01

Remember that US withdrew completely from Iraq (yes there are about 5000 troops there but face quite a hostile environment). BO had no interest in nation building. DT less so. In fact he wanted Iraqis to pay!

Iraq is a far more hospitable terrain with better facilities, connectivity and strategic importance (cough oil/Iran cough) than Afghanistan. I'm not sure something as vague as "needling Russia/china" justifies staying in Afghanistan, if US does not want to stay in Iraq since it has a base in Qatar.

Pakistan is another matter. They want to play off china against US. They now realize what kind of moneylender-giri is happening with CPEC and china. If Pakistan cannot repay Chinese loan, china will take over assets. Like how it has done in srilanka. Apparently china wants to settle 500,000 Chinese in gwadar for example. :shock:

Pakis are stupid but not that stupid. If China is truly taller than ocean and deeper than mountain, how many paki elites own property in China and how many children of paki elites are in China (vs US and UK). They need someone to balance China's power in Pakistan. US needs a base to mess with BRI and China and keep a watch over Afghanistan. It's a perfect marriage made in GUBO.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 02 Aug 2019 01:48

I would earnestly hope that the US seeks and is granted a base in Pakistan... nothing could accelerate the unraveling of TSP as rapidly as that.

However, aside from the sheer impracticality of Washington & Slumbad ever arriving at such an agreement, I don't necessarily accept the premise that the US would prefer a base in Pakistan to that in Afghanistan.

First of all, it's true that the Taliban have made life difficult for US troops in Afghanistan. But would things be better for them cramped up in an isolated base in a far more radicalized and crowded Pakistan?

Afghanistan Population Density: ~45 /sqkm. Many are pro-Taliban, but a significant % of Afghans are Uzbeks, Tajiks, Hazaras, and non-Ghilzai Pathans who are neutral or relatively pro-US as the "enemy of my enemy".

Pak Population Density: ~270 /sqkm. 99% rabidly jihadi [other than groups such as BLA or PTM which are in open revolt against govt-- and these few holdouts are highly overmatched by the Pak govt, in contrast to Uzbek/Tajik warlords in Afghanistan who exercise considerable power within their fiefdoms].

Afghanistan Security Forces: ANA, ANP. Essentially trained and shaped by the Americans, and for the most part vetted for loyalty/inclined to be relatively pro-US.

Pak Security Forces: TSPA, ISI, and jihadi Tanzeems. The former two, at least, armed with nukes.

Afghanistan ruling dispensation: Afghan National Govt, corrupt/inefficient but ultimately dependent on US for survival.

Pak ruling dispensation: TSPA, ISI, jihadi Tanzeems. Very happy to cut a deal with PRC, Russia, or anyone else. Has four fathers, while modern Afghanistan really only has one.

All of the above point to the answer being "no".

Second, what latitude would the US have to influence anything in Pakistan even with a sizeable military presence at a base (or two) there?

Pakistan is a far more complex system. It has far more connections with the outside world than Afghanistan does (connections with Sunni Gulf nations, China, Turkey, even Russia) and internally has a much stronger grassroots sense of national identity/sovereignty than present-day Afghanistan.

If you put 20,000 troops in a place like Afghanistan, which has ~35 million people but zero functioning national institutions, you have difficulties associated with chaos and ungovernability, but at least a chance of imposing your will through sheer brute force at times.

If you put 20,000 troops in one or two bases in Pakistan, with ~200 million people, a functioning and powerful authoritarian deep-state, strong jihadi institutional structure, large masses of citizens with long-standing commitments to this or that political organization... you are a drop in a bucket. A drop that, even if it ventures outside the bucket, will face what people like Raymond Davis faced on a regular basis. Not to even mention the fact that PLA is already embedded at various locations up and down the CPEC route, and Chini intelligence has the run of the country along with significant first-mover advantage at cultivating influence. Do remember that very recently, many top jernails of TSPA were purged out of its ranks on "corruption" charges (their actual offense was being too pro-American, and their exits were managed by pressure from Beijing).

All of this is complete anathema to the US governing establishment. Echoing Gen Douglas MacArthur before him, former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates once remarked: "“any future defense secretary who advises the president to again send a big American land army into Asia… should ‘have his head examined". When the US thinks of Asia it is thinking precisely of places like the Indian Subcontinent, SE Asia, and China: vast incomprehensible places with long histories, complex social and political dynamics, and above all gigantic populations.

I don't think anyone in Washington is seriously entertaining this idea, even if (for the moment) some in the Paki establishment might see it as a bright idea to acquire easy money.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 02 Aug 2019 01:55

In addition: one serious handicap suffered by US presence in Afghanistan to date has been the fact that it has used official US military personnel. This means it is subject to oversight by both the US Congress and by "human rights" type groups for anything that could possibly look like an atrocity or violation of the rules of engagement.

When you deploy a 100% privatized military force made up of contractors, all that is out the window. You CAN, actually, use force in ways that were previously prohibitive but would be far more effective... nobody else is going to see what you do, or even if they see it, they can't do anything about it.

I think this is part of what Trump was hinting at with repeated references to winning the war in a very short time, through a process that would kill 10 million Afghans.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Anujan » 02 Aug 2019 04:35

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... fbde221205

News just now:

The Trump administration is preparing to withdraw thousands of troops from Afghanistan in exchange for concessions from the Taliban, including a cease-fire and a renunciation of al-Qaeda, as part of an initial deal to end the nearly 18-year-old war, U.S. officials say.

The agreement, which would require the Taliban to begin negotiating a larger peace deal directly with the Afghan government, could cut the number of American troops in the country from roughly 14,000 to between 8,000 and 9,000, the officials said.....The proposal is likely to be viewed skeptically by some U.S. and Afghan officials who question the Taliban’s honesty and wonder how the United States can verify whether Taliban leaders are following through.....The Taliban has refused to talk with the Afghan government, which it calls a puppet regime, until it reaches a deal with the United States on its troops.....But some Afghan officials fear that a preliminary deal outlining a U.S. withdrawal could weaken their negotiating position during intra-Afghan talks and eventually leave them alone to fight the battle-hardened Taliban.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby schinnas » 02 Aug 2019 19:13

Orange keeps his election promise. Screws allies and afghanis.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 02 Aug 2019 19:50

Trump loafer is at it again, repeating his 'mediation' offer and continues to do equal equal nonsense with his 'both' Talibna Khan and ModiJi are good guys. I don't think India's reactions, both his lie that ModiJi asked him to mediate, and registering official protest on his gift of F-solas to TSP have had any effect. He is toying with India and having a chuckle as India fumes.

Its been a while since I read TSP media, but whats the reaction from there? Tone is triumphant? Usually, all that TSP needs is feel good equal equal on the front end, and with that in the bank, they act quietly with their pigLeTs in the background to show Trump that the 'decades long Kashmir dispute' is raging and if only he mediates (meaning force India to hand over Kashmir valley on a silver platter to TSP), TSP will not only help in AfPak but even be personal hygienists for Melanie Trump by cleaning her toilets etc, and Maleeha Lodhi will be her hairdresser for free.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby schinnas » 02 Aug 2019 22:12

TSP aam aadmi has better things to focus on such as price of roti and naan rather than Trump's mediation offer which will go nowhere.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Shwetank » 03 Aug 2019 03:34

While looking up past CIA senior figures, found his daughters had converted to sikhism which led me to an article from 1979 about the Sikh Dharma Brotherhood! Surprisingly, number of senior official kids converted. Wonder what happened to this community in washington?
The Sikhs of Washingtón: Family Life and Prosperity
..In an era when exotic religions have gained often dubious reputations, the Sikhs have gained admiration for their disciplined and industrious way of life. For the most part they are whites, middle and upper income, some of them the sons and daughters of Congressmen or high Government officials..

...To all this the American Sikhs have added strict vegetarianism, the white turbans for women as well as men, and the practice of strenuous tantric yoga done in male‐female pairs...
... Typical of the group is the 29-yearold public relations director, Sat‐Peter Singh Khalsa. He is the former Peter Blachly, the son of a State Department public information officer, and he lived what he recalls as a comfortable, middle‐class life. He attended the exclusive St. Albans Academy here and then prestigious St. John's College in Annapolis, Md., where he studied Plato and Aristotle and mastered what he now calls “intellectual acrobatics.”

But something was missing. “Outside,” he said, “I lived up to all the social programming, but inside there was a great dichotomy. I always wanted to reach out and touch people, to communicate with a powerful spiritual sense. I had a rock band and the music seemed one way.’

He also tried drugs, he said, before he came to the Sikh yoga classes. “It was such a powerful experience that became a Sikh,” he said. “With discipline and daily routine of yoga, I've learned to alter my behavior and change for the positive.”
Family life also helps, members say, because the Sikh dharma, or law of life, encourages families and children and the maintenance of a household. The role of women, who use no makeup and practice natural childbirth, is both traditional and enlightened, Sikh followers contend.

Guru Sangat Kaur Khalsa, 29, a member of the sect for seven years, says there is no second‐rate status for women Sikhs, who hold office in the organization and learn martial arts. “There's no competition between men and women,” she said. “Physically they're a different species. Women are the source, the mothers of the earth, graceful and divine.”

In an age when inflation is pressing on family life, when working mothers are strapped to find ways of taking care of their children, the Sikhs seem to have found an accommodation. All members help take care of the children and new mothers get 40 days off while other members fill in for them in their jobs. Men cook, and some stay home full‐time to watch their families.

“I iron all my own clothes,” said SatPeter Singh Khalsa. “My wife doesn't like to do ironing.”...

...The Sikhs have contacts on Capitol Hill, especially in the offices of members whose sons or daughters are in the sect, and they have succeeded in making their presence felt. In 1973, they successfully lobbied the Army to rescind, for Sikh service personnel, its short‐hair regulations. Unshorn hair is one of the precepts of their religion, as is yoga, vegetarianism and their all white cotton uniforms and turbans...

...The group in this city, now 10 years old, is one of 100 such communities with 150,000 members in the United States and Canada, and it has flourished, especially in the commercial sense of the word...

...The Sikh Dharma Brotherhood encourages hard work, family ties and equal status of women.


It seems they became this organization with wikipage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3HO
Orthodox Sikhs, including the Sikh leadership in Amritsar, do not consider 3HO as Sikhs.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 03 Aug 2019 11:10

CRamS wrote:Trump loafer is at it again, repeating his 'mediation' offer and continues to do equal equal nonsense with his 'both' Talibna Khan and ModiJi are good guys. I don't think India's reactions, both his lie that ModiJi asked him to mediate, and registering official protest on his gift of F-solas to TSP have had any effect. He is toying with India and having a chuckle as India fumes.

Its been a while since I read TSP media, but whats the reaction from there? Tone is triumphant? Usually, all that TSP needs is feel good equal equal on the front end, and with that in the bank, they act quietly with their pigLeTs in the background to show Trump that the 'decades long Kashmir dispute' is raging and if only he mediates (meaning force India to hand over Kashmir valley on a silver platter to TSP), TSP will not only help in AfPak but even be personal hygienists for Melanie Trump by cleaning her toilets etc, and Maleeha Lodhi will be her hairdresser for free.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... DIjaK.html
India, US to ink two key defence pacts this week

India is fuming so much that it is preparing to sign a few new agreements with the US! :rotfl: Understandable given your liking for rNDTV style rhetoric.

While a nation moves ahead some folks are still trapped in the "old and dated" equal equal narrative and dhoti-shiver at farts. India/Modi does not seem to be buying your enthusiasm for Indo-TSP relationship nor your concern for Indo-US relationship.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 03 Aug 2019 16:18

One analyst in the media said that the US with its creeping agreements is aiming to obtain in the future the
holy grail of military bases in India.It is abundantly clear from agreements signed so far, that " cooperative engagement" of Indian military assets, especially naval assets is what the US is hell- bent upon, why it is adamant upon preventing India by any means buying Ru milware.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vijayk » 03 Aug 2019 17:51

https://thewire.in/world/trump-kashmir- ... iran-india
Trump Sees Kashmir – and Pakistan Too – Through the Prism of Iran
For all his apparent bumbling and oddball comments, the US president knows what he wants, and he goes unashamedly for it.


This time, Trump’s priority is to contain Iran. Israel has for decades been paranoid over Iranian rhetoric about wiping Israel off the face of the Earth. That fixation increased manifold when the US opened a clear land route from Iran to Israel. Pared to the bone, the strategic bottom-line of what the US’s failed 2003 invasion of Iraq achieved was to open that land route. A pro-Tehran government took power in Baghdad while pro-Tehran forces already held sway in Damascus and Beirut.

For Israel, that open land route was a nightmare.

It so happened that anti-Shia Wahabism spread widely over the past 15 years, and became the driving force of hugely successful terror groups.

Af-Pak connection

If the most vital strategic outcome of the Iraq invasion was to increase Iran’s influence over Iraq, the US is absolutely determined to ensure that Iran does not gain any strategic elbow-room in Pakistan to its east or in Afghanistan to its northeast.

While George W. Bush was still in office, it was already clear that the US would re-instal the Taliban in Afghanistan. The objective was to ensure that there was no chance that Kabul might be well-disposed toward Iran.

The US was too weak in Afghanistan to be able to shape a new anti-Shia force. So, since the Taliban was gaining ground in any case, the US negotiated with it through Doha-based interlocutors. That’s been happening for a decade now. It was in a slow lane under Obama. With Trump, it’s on the fast track.

Now that the Taliban is rapidly regaining ground-level power in Afghanistan, the Trump administration has gone hell for leather against Iran.

His effort is not just to stop Iran’s nuclear programme, which Obama and other world leaders had managed, but to crush Iran as a power in the region.

For that to work, the US must ensure that Iran is blockaded. That’s where Pakistan comes in.


Pakistan’s generals have talked so much and so long of wanting ‘strategic depth’ against India through influence over Afghanistan that we tend to ignore the fact that Pakistan has long borders with not just India and Afghanistan, but with Iran too. Pakistan could well give Iran strategic depth.

On the other hand, getting Pakistan to play its strategic chess game in the region would be a two-in-one for the US’s efforts in the region – blocking putative covert Pakistani assistance to Iran and, through Pakistan, control over important Taliban factions in Afghanistan.

If Pakistan’s quid pro quo for that is Kashmir, it’s a price the US’s actual policymakers would happily negotiate.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 04 Aug 2019 03:39

Guys, please view my following tongue'n-cheek satire in the right spirit. Unlike most American who are either apathetic or India/Hindu haters among them, especially in CIA/Pentagon/think tanks who wink wink nod nod chuckle chuckle whenever TSP attacks India with its pigLeTs, I do not condone any mass shooting death in US.My condolences.

Breaking news: Mass shooting in El Paso TX. Indian PM ModiJi called up US president Trump and offered to mediate between the killer and victims. PM ModiJi further went on to add that both the killer and the victims are beautiful people just as Trump said ModiJi and leader of the terrorist entity called Pakistan are ‘great guys’

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/el-pas ... index.html

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 05 Aug 2019 00:38

Trump's hurry to leave Afghanistan is probably the reason that Bakis got a lot of free passes in recent days. Also, perhaps why Modi/GOI "might" want to move quickly on Kashmir ... if in fact that is the reason for the latest Kashmir political turmoil. May be certain steps taken now, e.g. trifurcation, will allow GOI to isolate Kashmir and deal better with the evolving situation there with the coming changed dynamics in Afghanistan.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4560 ... an-by-2020
Trump told advisers he wants to pull US troops from Afghanistan by 2020 election: report

Update 1: Anujan saar has posted the news a couple of days back. With a hard date like say a month or 2 before election 2020 US presidential elections, the Taliban have the upper hand like the last time.

Update 2: While it will generate immense pressure on our Jammu & Kashmir border, India has progressed from the late 1980's and a few red-lines have been broken along the way, most recently the Air power usage and the No-clear red-lines. BUT that is cold comfort for the cost that India will have to bear in the short term. Perhaps the coming era will prove decisive given that defense will not longer suffice. Real test of Modi is about to begin.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 06 Aug 2019 01:35

Trump wants to claim, for electoral reasons, that he has brought US troops back from Afghanistan and ended the war.

The entire US national security establishment will never allow him to actually do it.

So there will be a compromise. From aam US janta's point of view, official US military personnel will return (some, anyway) to the tune of widely-publicized parades and heavy spin from the pro-Trump media. From our point of view, Afghanistan will remain under US military occupation by contractors (and Pakistan will continue to receive baksheesh to keep the supply lines open for them).

The proposal to privatize the occupation of Afghanistan with contractors instead of US military personnel is not imaginary... it has been in the works since October last year. Ghani govt is reported to have opposed the idea, but what clout do they have? If the choice is between that vs. ending up Najibullah'd on a lamp-post, no guesses which path they will choose.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rahul M » 06 Aug 2019 07:22

Any official unkil reaction so far regarding yesterday's moves ?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 06 Aug 2019 07:29

Rahul M wrote:Any official unkil reaction so far regarding yesterday's moves ?


A four-line statement from state department spokesperson Morgan Ortagus contained no censure or condemnation
of India’s action, but expressed concern about “reports of detentions” and urged “respect for individual rights and discussion with those affected communities.

The statement also called on all parties “to maintain peace and stability along the Line of Control".

There was no mention of Pakistan in the statement.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 06 Aug 2019 08:02

Why do we even care? What happened yesterday was an entirely internal business, so no one has any locus standi on it.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Pulikeshi » 06 Aug 2019 10:13

Rahul M wrote:Any official unkil reaction so far regarding yesterday's moves ?


Unkil wants exit! (From Af and tried to be smoke the Kashmiri stuff pipe prematurely)
Chinkil’s Xi tail (HK) is on fire!
UK is in Brex-tit!
GCC are with the Yindu
Paki is bankrupt!
India is in offensive defense onlee! :mrgreen:

Mere Peeche Kisi Ne Repeat Kiya Toh
Saala Maine Tere Muh Pe Maara Mukka :rotfl:

UN and world comeunity beer & popcorn for sasta onlee! Kele kaa aur Union Territory banana! :P

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 07 Aug 2019 07:31

I believe since 370 is done. Some thought needs to be applied to study recent past on how this applies to other equations in the region and what are possible outcomes from this.

I believe since Pulwama attack USA was told that this is what we are planning to do, massa intervened (after Balakot) and asked India to postpone this till Afghanistan is sorted out to benefit of Massa and in return they made sure Abhinandan came back , FATF noose and deescalation from porkis. (Some promises made, understand this was before elections).

Now here is what things got interesting , massa stuck deals with porkis on other hand that the pressure we have on you we can release via your help in Afghanistan. Porkis agreed to that with guarantee of US mediation on Kashmir and importantly India will have no role to play in Afghanistan. IF you see or follow us special envoy ,he had totally ignored India. Following incidents happened in recent past :

1) Pressuring India to separate from Iran even though they know importance this relationship has on India, including possible sanctions which they kept throwing down the road every few months.
2) Pressuring to buy us teen cans, stay away from S400 and Russia.
3) Trade penalties
4) India out of any potential future of Afghanistan
5) Mediation into Kashmir there by contain India via Pakistan

I believe last two were red lines that us deep state crossed where India decides enough is enough. Once the money was released and F-16 support announced with possible us mediation in future.

India decides to cut the jugular, we do it systematically without much noise in open. We dared massa the middle finger, we have might and will to execute it. With one stroke porkis are quiet, the shoulders on which they were jumping turned out to be hollow. US was able to nothing for prokis in this case as their options viz a viz desh are limited. Not in their wildest dream they thought this to be reality at this time.

Where as timing of this was purely aimed and directed towards actions of massa (reciprocate in the same coin), if you remember that there were us weapons shown that were captured to show mirror that your weapons which you choose to donate and overlook have always been used against us and we will not take it anymore. So within days of announcement of mediation , wheels are set in motion.

Now when the envoy Zalmay Khalilzad comes to India to lecture on Afghanistan, they are greeted with new world realities. Today is not the same world that he tried to negotiate with porkies, its a different world altogether.

Now if we look future from this, I see following happening :

Porkis will retaliate they do not have options, the only option they have is another terror attack which IK said publicly that it will happen. The question is can we make this final battle to take this to its logical conclusion since after Indian response porkies will again respond.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 07 Aug 2019 11:06

krishna_krishna wrote:
Rahul M wrote:Any official unkil reaction so far regarding yesterday's moves ?


A four-line statement from state department spokesperson Morgan Ortagus contained no censure or condemnation
of India’s action, but expressed concern about “reports of detentions” and urged “respect for individual rights and discussion with those affected communities.

The statement also called on all parties “to maintain peace and stability along the Line of Control".

There was no mention of Pakistan in the statement.

Also "noted" that India told them it is internal matter for India.
Morgan Ortagus uvacha...
...We are closely following the events in Jammu and Kashmir. We take note of India's announcement revising the constitutional status of Jammu and Kashmir and India's plan to split the state into two union territories ... note that India has described the actions in J&K as "strictly an internal matter".

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 13 Aug 2019 18:13

Meanwhile...
New York Congressman issues public apology: (after his stupid anti-India Kashmir comment)

Congressman Tom Suozzi, issued a public apology to Indian Americans for not consulting them before shooting of a letter to US State Department on the Kashmir issue.


The Congressman issued an apology...<ityadi > and said that he would make sure in future to consult with all of his constituents.. which IMO is a good thing.​

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 13 Aug 2019 18:24

There are many "calls" from Pakis to "protest" in front of Indian consulates/embassies in US (and other places too) on August 15. Some of these calls are coming from tweets from higher Pakis like Rehman Malik (whose twitter account, if I hope will be blocked soon). Please do your duty and inform local police.

Americans - Please give a heads up to local police/homeland security. Very likely to catch some terrorists..also reply/tweet that you are doing publicly - this may prevent some some not-so-bright but relatively innocents misguided liberals to join the crowd.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 14 Aug 2019 00:06

Amber G. wrote:There are many "calls" from Pakis to "protest" in front of Indian consulates/embassies in the US (and other places too) on August 15. Some of these calls are coming from tweets from higher Pakis like Rehman Malik (whose twitter account, if I hope will be blocked soon). Please do your duty and inform the local police.

Americans - Please give a heads up to local police/homeland security. Very likely to catch some terrorists..also reply/tweet that you are doing publicly - this may prevent some not-so-bright but relatively innocents misguided liberals to join the crowd.


AmberJi,
Doing my small part. Is anyone going to be in Houston for Howdy Modi event on September 22nd? Any chance of BR Jirga happening? :mrgreen:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 14 Aug 2019 03:28

Is it possible to contact ICE and let them know there will be possible accumulations of multiple undocumented aliens from Pakistan in front of Indian consulates/embassies in the US on August 15th? And also spread the word on Twitter etc. that ICE will be waiting for these vermin :mrgreen:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 14 Aug 2019 03:45

Done. If you are on Twitter, please RETWEET widely.

https://twitter.com/Indosphere/status/1 ... 6948473859

Ultra-Rationalist
@Indosphere
Dear @ICEgov
just FYI: multiple undocumented Pakistani immigrants, filled with Jihadist fervour, plan to demonstrate outside Indian consulates/embassies in US cities on August 15th 2019. Happy hunting!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby tandav » 15 Aug 2019 12:40

Anujan wrote:I am not sure if US forces will continue to stay in Afghanistan.

The taliban have made it clear that negotiations will go in two phases.
1. US forces withdraw from Afghanistan
2. Taliban negotiates with elected government in afghanistan

US does not really care about (2). Whether democracy lives or dies or a warlord rules. For (1), the acceptable bargain is to ensure that Afghanistan does not become a base for attacks against the US. Not western interests, US. DT has indicated that US will pursue its own security, and is not really interested in taking NATO countries along with him.
If this is the deal, then it imposes two dilemmas.

1. If US forces (or contractors of whoever) stay in afghanistan, how to ensure their security?

2. Then how to enforce the deal?

US will strike a grand bargain with Pakistan, to take over one of their bases for a permanent presence. that no

Lots of stuff snipped



Why should Afghanistan or Pakistan remain as a single nation. AFPAK will probably function better as separate states comprised of its ethnolinguistic groups: Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, Aymāq, Turkmen, Baloch, Pashai, Nuristani, Gujjar, Arab, Brahui, Pamiri (Afghanistan), Sindhi, Punjabi, Baloch (Pakistan)

Many of these groups span the AFPAK region and need separate nations to function better. Islam is not a very good glue as the most murderous of these tribes goes on to call their own brand of Islam as most true and commits genocide on all else.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Prem » 19 Aug 2019 10:23

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... a-dividend
The India Dividend
New Delhi Remains Washington’s Best Hope in Asia


Almost 20 years ago, acting on such expectations, Washington began resolving the disagreements that had held U.S.-Indian relations back through the Cold War and into the 1990s. During George W. Bush’s presidency, U.S. officials gave up their long-standing insistence that India relinquish its nuclear weapons, allowing Washington and New Delhi to sign a landmark nuclear accord and opening the way to heavy U.S. investments—diplomatic, economic, and military—to facilitate India’s rise. Successive U.S. administrations provided liberal access to military technologies and promoted India’s role in international institutions, culminating in President Barack Obama’s endorsement of Indian aspirations to permanent membership in the UN Security Council. Albeit imperiled by the Trump administration’s disregard for allies and partners, this basic U.S. approach continues to this day.
Yet the logic of the U.S.-Indian partnership remains misunderstood by many, especially in the United States. The transformation of U.S.-Indian ties since the early years of this century has given rise to expectations that, sooner or later, the two countries would become allies in all but name, closely aligned on virtually every major foreign policy issue. That such an accord has not materialized has brought creeping disappointment and doubt about the relationship’s long-term viability.Critics carp that the United States has overinvested in India—that the favors accorded to New Delhi have not been worth the return. They point, for instance, to India’s failure to select a U.S. fighter for its air force or to its inability to conclude the nuclear reactor purchases promised under the breakthrough nuclear agreement. Even supporters of theTO R

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 20 Aug 2019 11:04

Amber G. wrote:Morgan Ortagus uvacha...


Morgan Ortegas worked in the DoS. She is a CIA operative IMHO.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 20 Aug 2019 22:58

^^^ Meanwhile a day after NaMo and Trump talk - Mark Esper (US Defense Secretary) says something like >> that Kashmir is an internal matter for India. 8)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ldev » 21 Aug 2019 18:33

What Trump really spoke about to Modi and Imran Khan

US President Donald Trump’s phone calls to prime ministers Narendra Modi and Imran Khan Monday were less about India-Pakistan tensions over Kashmir and more about his country’s exit from Afghanistan and trade with New Delhi, sources told ThePrint.


However, according to sources, his call to Khan was focused on ensuring that Pakistan does not divert its attention from the Afghanistan peace process, as Islamabad has hinted in the wake of India’s decision to strip Kashmir of its special status.

The call to Modi, meanwhile, was meant to convince India to hammer out a substantial trade package for the benefit of American firms and farmers, the sources added.


According to a statement issued by the Ministry of External Affairs after the Trump-Modi call, the PM “expressed the hope” that Commerce and Industry Minister Piyush Goyal will meet US trade representative Robert Lighthizer “at an early date to discuss bilateral trade prospects for mutual benefit”.

With the US not being able to make much headway in hammering out a trade deal with China, the Trump administration is now focusing more heavily on India to get tariff-free access for its agricultural goods and medical devices.

This, despite Washington’s grievances with New Delhi over data localisation issues that are impacting the operations of American conglomerates.

According to sources, Trump wants India to cough up a substantial trade deal before he heads for the 2020 presidential elections.

“Any trade deal with the US will require substantial give-and-take,” Shankar said. “Trump is not able to make a deal with China, so his focus is on India now.”

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 21 Aug 2019 23:50

Vayutuvan wrote:
Amber G. wrote:Morgan Ortagus uvacha...


Morgan Ortegas worked in the DoS. She is a CIA operative IMHO.


I thought she was a Faux Neus bimbo.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby yensoy » 22 Aug 2019 10:39

India, other countries must fight terrorists in Afghanistan, says Donald Trump https://www.thehindu.com/news/internati ... 218527.ece

“At a certain point Russia, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey they are going to have to fight their battles too. We wiped out the caliphate 100 per cent. I did it in record time.” Mr. Trump told reporters at the White House while responding to a question on the reemergence of the Islamic State in Afghanistan.
...
“Look, India is right there. They are not fighting it. We are fighting it. Pakistan is right next door. They are fighting it very little. Very, very little. It’s not fair. The United States is 7,000 miles away, Mr. Trump said.


So now we know, that's his pound of flesh.

I'm all for increasing our presence Afghanistan, but how do we go there? One of 3 possibilities must happen, and Trump/SD/Pentagon/American public must be educated of these options:
1. We regain control of PoK and build a road through the Wakhan corridor into Afghanistan
2. Baluchistan gains independence from Pak, with a India-friendly government and public; we get long term guaranteed access to Afghanistan from Gwadar
3. US figures out its sh!t with Iran, and lets us do business with them, so we can continue to use Chabahar as a way into Afghanistan

No deal if one or more of the above conditions isn't met.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby banrjeer » 22 Aug 2019 12:04

Mr Trump there are two options

free Balochistan or let India take Gilgit-Baltistan with a little bit of support from you.
and the troops get to go home in a few years.

China needs to be assured that their highway won't be touched and their investment's will be in better hands.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 22 Aug 2019 13:25

banrjeer wrote:Mr Trump there are two options

free Balochistan or let India take Gilgit-Baltistan with a little bit of support from you.
and the troops get to go home in a few years.

China needs to be assured that their highway won't be touched and their investment's will be in better hands.


Why do you want to give assurance to cheen to take back our own land? It was a risk they took while investing in a land that's been occupied by another country.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby V_Raman » 22 Aug 2019 13:32

I have always believed in Indian troops in AFG. It is possible with India gets back Gilgit-Baltistan and be able to support its troops to AFG. That could be a grand bargain with the USA if we can handle China.


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