India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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UlanBatori
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2019 12:55

Come to think of it: Afghanistan was not mentioned either by NaMo or DT. Is this the case of the Dog That Did Not Bark? There was not much outright occasion to mention it, but still..
Also, something is clearly happening behind the scenes w.r.t. Iran-Israel. I HOPE they have been reading UBCN projection of how to solve the AfPak in one stroke: Iranian Republican Guards with armor protecting the southern Afghanistan border, with joint Indian-Iranian air cover (maybe NATO too, but then the word SYRIA resonates in my skull). The coordinated Baloch-Pashtun-Sindh-Balwaristan protest outside the Houston event clearly indicated some behind-the-scenes work involving desi entities (no specifics offered, thanx). Their call was for US and Indian Govts to help them get freedom from Terroristan. Now the Dog's Silence becomes more curious..

Why do I say that there is something new brewing wrt Israel/Iran? Nut&Yahoo, if he survives in "power" to keep out of jail, is going to have to get Gantz's support/tolerance. Though Gantz is (like most Israelis) ex-IDF, the word is that he is in the Bizz lobby. Reading Jerusalem Post recently was an eye-opener: they were blaring Iran's declaration of bizzful intent!

Now start imagining things: Israelis think ahead about survival. If they can armtwist a deal with Iran, they can leap off the sinking KSA, with American approval. DT is still talking about Iran as sponsor of "IT" in his contortions to Dimran, but Ayatollah Bolton is gone, and Trump is being proven right in backing off irreversible actions wrt Iran. His present advisors may see that KSA is teetering literally on the edge. A radical shift with US-Iran-Israel at more-or-less marriage of convenience, looks like the best bet for US policy in ME. If that solves Af-Pak, well and good. If it solves Af-Pak by turning it into just Pak, DT will have cut off PeeAllSee's ambitions both in Iran and in Gwadar, and nicely trashed CPEC. Who knows? Failure of CPEC would be 1000 times the consequences of Doklam Loss-e-Face, and result in huge overcrowding of Gobi Le-Education Lesolt ---- best chance to cause some Intelesting Times in Beijing and Shanghai.

All in all, vely vely intelesting times indeed. Enough Forward Thinking for one din.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vikas » 24 Sep 2019 13:15

Gandhi Peace prize you mean..(Who knows Nehru outside lootens Delhi)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 24 Sep 2019 13:24

Vikas wrote:Gandhi Peace prize you mean..(Who knows Nehru outside lootens Delhi)

If there's no Nehru Peace Prize, of course DT must be the first recepient of it. All the more importance for him.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vikas » 24 Sep 2019 13:30

Another course of action for GoI could be
- To loosen our ties with nutties in Tehran. They have this propensity of barking against India and have no future in short or long term.
Downside would be loss of access to Afghanistan but then Saudi Uncle can force Bakis to allow Indian access to Afghan to help birader Sunni Islamic mulk.
We also get to bring Taliban on our side who eventually will run over A'stan in few years.

- To deepen our collaboration with Sunni world to the extent offering protection to House of Saud and neighboring kingdoms.
This gives us access to largest source of hydrocarbons as well increases our influence on the Islamic world.
Also helps us in controlling narrative in countries like Malaysia and other Non Arab Islamic countries.

- Brings up better coordination with USA with respect to middle east policy.
- Not having the baggage of Iranian crazies helps us chart independent course of action in our Mid east policies which are hampered by Iranian connection.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 13:35

https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1176304710917246976
Sidhant Sibal @sidhant

Trump, Imran discussed ways to de-escalate tension between Pakistan and India, including combatting terrorism, and the importance of Indo-Pakistani dialogue to resolve disputes between them: White House

Ordinary statement put out by the White House. Nothing on Kashmir wrt the current climate or in general. Rest is fluff that is acceptable to India.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nam » 24 Sep 2019 13:37

Suraj wrote:
Vikas wrote:Gandhi Peace prize you mean..(Who knows Nehru outside lootens Delhi)

If there's no Nehru Peace Prize, of course DT must be the first recepient of it. All the more importance for him.


If Obama can get Nobel for bring peace in Europe, then Trump should get one from us for "preventing war with Iran, despite loosing a expensive Global Hawk".

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 13:39

chetak wrote:Why do we get into shitty situations like the "wuhan sprit" and such nonsense especially when dealing with a two faced criminal enterprise like the cheeni goonda gang.

Haven't we the spine to push a counter narrative like the "tibet spirit" or the "two cheeni spirit"

trump has the cheeni Kumquats (金橘 Jīn jú) in tight vise and is tightening it further.

Prepare for a new round of "Wuhan spirit" or perhaps it is "Mahabalipuram spirit".
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 483163.ece
Mahabalipuram Shore temple to get world class illumination for Modi-Xi summit in October

Why this sudden liking for "Tibet spirit"? Was "Wuhan spirit" needling India?
Last edited by pankajs on 24 Sep 2019 13:40, edited 1 time in total.

nam
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nam » 24 Sep 2019 13:40

Vikas wrote:Another course of action for GoI could be
- To loosen our ties with nutties in Tehran. They have this propensity of barking against India and have no future in short or long term.
Downside would be loss of access to Afghanistan but then Saudi Uncle can force Bakis to allow Indian access to Afghan to help birader Sunni Islamic mulk.


There is no loss of access. Iran will not shutdown the port. It is making money for them and Afghanistan will be really p*** if they close the port.

Getting Afghanistan on board was the smart thing we did.

In a way, there is nothing in Afghanistan, that we need to loose sleep over a port.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 24 Sep 2019 14:01

nam wrote:
Vikas wrote:Another course of action for GoI could be
- To loosen our ties with nutties in Tehran. They have this propensity of barking against India and have no future in short or long term.
Downside would be loss of access to Afghanistan but then Saudi Uncle can force Bakis to allow Indian access to Afghan to help birader Sunni Islamic mulk.


There is no loss of access. Iran will not shutdown the port. It is making money for them and Afghanistan will be really p*** if they close the port.

Getting Afghanistan on board was the smart thing we did.

In a way, there is nothing in Afghanistan, that we need to loose sleep over a port.


I fully agree with you.

better to go low key on this chabahar fiasco, what with the iranis constantly in blackmail mode.

their business tactics are predatory, to say the least, and they are constantly whining and greedy to grab as much as they can while giving India very little in return.

these guys need to be shown their place and we don't need to be so placatory towards them.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 14:06

CRamS wrote:I saw the press conference of Taliban Khan and Trump bahadur in its entirety.

Its very painful and frustrating that despite yesterday's bonhomie, nothing has fundamentally shifted in the India-US-TSP triangular equation. As I point out in my report of yesterday's event, unless US recognizes and acts accordingly, namely, that TSP is the epi-center of terror, especially directed against India, India US relations are stuck.

Strange for folks to expect overnight change in a country's foreign policy on the back of a joint rally. OTOH, if one uses a longer-term lens of 20 years one can observe quite a dramatic change in the "India-US-TSP triangular equation".

However, I guess, if one is a member of sky is falling club, one learns to seeing things day to day. Theek hai.

CRamS wrote:I mean leaving aside all the gas from Trump lavishing extensive praise on Taliban Khan and TSP, the answer to one question stood out. And that was when one Paki asked if Trump endorses ModiJi's statement that all terror including 9/11 and 26/11 can be traced to TSP. To which all that Trump could summon was that it is Iran that is terror hub.

Again, members of sky is falling club have a different yardstick than most observers of foreign policy. As far as I am concerned, Frump did NOT swat down that linkage, rather focused on Iran.

BTW, the linkage of Bakis to 9/11 and 26/11 is based on FACT, acknowledged officially around the globe, and not Modi's conjecture. But it is understandable that members of sky is falling club take it day to day and need to be reassured that the sky has not fallen every single day. Theek hai.

CRamS wrote:I mean even if he wanted to be nice to TSP, he could have said there are issues of radical Islamist terror with TSP but bla bla (something to soothe TSP ego). Some crap, even that would be too benign, but to completely side step TSP terror is sure dampener from yesterday. I cannot imagine TSP is so important for Trump's game plan in Afghanistan that he could not even summon the honesty to endorse what ModiJi said because even if he wants to discount 26/11 because it was an attack on us SDREs, OBL was found in Abbottabad hiding under the asses of TSPA/ISI

Yes TSP is important to America for the fig leaf of honorable exit. US can ofcourse fight it out or just bail out like it did in Vietnam. However, it misses the point in that US is never going to give up on its bakistan project till it is forced, by its own inability, to junk the project. We are still quite a distance from that time.

Based on your logic, Frump also did not endorse Modiji on baki linkage to 9/11 because perhaps the attack was on White Americans predominantly. What to do ... it is Frump being Frump. AND yes yes, the orchestrator of 9/11, OBL was found in Abbottabad hiding under the asses of TSPA/ISI.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 14:28

Its all happening folks and till now it has been ok from India's pov.

https://twitter.com/setholdmixon/status ... 7078573062
Seth Oldmixon @setholdmixon

So far this week, Pakistan’s Prime Minister told an audience in Washington that the ISI trained al Qaeda (!?!) and President Trump mocked a Pakistani reporter for giving a political speech instead of asking a question.

And it’s not yet 5pm on Monday.

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 1909082112
Aditya Raj Kaul @AdityaRajKaul

The moment when a Pakistani Journalist goes into a rhetoric mode on Kashmir, Trump asks Imran Khan: ‘Where do you get reporters like these? Then asks the reporter: ‘Are you from his (Imran) team? You are making a statement, not asking a question’. Pak Channel stops broadcast.

https://twitter.com/iMac_too/status/1161614061512974336
iMac_too @iMac_too

If Modi is lucky to have Pappu as his principal rival in India, he's doubly lucky to have Im the Dim as his counterpart in Pakistan

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 15:19

Another namuna ... A person of Indian descent plumbing the depth is countered by an American pointing out the heights. Hell hath no fury like a women scorned or some such gyan I overheard.

https://twitter.com/NarangVipin/status/ ... 1331766272
Vipin Narang @NarangVipin

Paging the Indian MEA. Houston, you may have a problem.

https://twitter.com/Cold_Peace_/status/ ... 9410591744
Jeff M. Smith @Cold_Peace_

Trump's always had nice words for both Modi & Khan. But past the optics, policy has been quite partial.

With India there are trade/sanctions disputes but
also COMCASA/STA-1/Quad/BRI/CENTCOM/Kashmir support.

With Pakistan it's been sanctions/FATF/aid suspended. No deliverables.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 16:45

BTW, for folks who are still quacking in their boots re: Frump's latest press con. When Amreeka really starts getting obnoxious this is what it does.

https://twitter.com/SumannSharrma/statu ... 4092437505
Human rights abuses of Uyghur Muslims in China to come up at UN
Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 24 Sep 2019 16:54

twitter


Election Commissioner Ashok Lavasa’s Wife Faces I-T Investigation For Tax Evasion And Holding Directorship In Multiple Firms. Novel Singhal joined as an independent director in 4 power firms on the same day. Lavasa was a Secretary in Ministry of Power



twitter


“As a class 1 officer in bank, I developed huge corporate expertise to hold directorships.”
Election Commissioner Ashok Lavasa’s wife explaining her independent directorship in 12 big private companies when her husband was a Secretary in related ministries.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 17:03

Vikas wrote:Another course of action for GoI could be
- To loosen our ties with nutties in Tehran. They have this propensity of barking against India and have no future in short or long term.
Downside would be loss of access to Afghanistan but then Saudi Uncle can force Bakis to allow Indian access to Afghan to help birader Sunni Islamic mulk.
We also get to bring Taliban on our side who eventually will run over A'stan in few years.

- To deepen our collaboration with Sunni world to the extent offering protection to House of Saud and neighboring kingdoms.
This gives us access to largest source of hydrocarbons as well increases our influence on the Islamic world.
Also helps us in controlling narrative in countries like Malaysia and other Non Arab Islamic countries.

- Brings up better coordination with USA with respect to middle east policy.
- Not having the baggage of Iranian crazies helps us chart independent course of action in our Mid east policies which are hampered by Iranian connection.

Too many super-super low probability events that need to line up ALL at the same time for success that one can guess the chance of final outcome (success) as zero.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2019 17:36

Iran will not always be crazy.
KSA WILL always be cra* with decreasing amounts of oil under it and increasing amounts of oil fires above. No history and no prospect of civilization. In the long term, the Sunni-Shia lovefest imo will lead to the Shia leaving Islam. Once the present Ayatollah hold is loosened (and that may be the contribution of the Trump regime) the ancient ppl may rise and say "Never Again" to fanatic Islam.
One more attack and KSA with its deeply radicalized Sunni Islam may refuse to let Shia into Mecca. Or there may be one more massacre of Shia at Mecca like there was a couple of years ago. Shia observances are much more like other religions than like Sunni Islam.

Point is that of all the nations in the Dunia, other than Israel and India and MAYBE Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and Myanmar, Iran is the only nation that can potentially revive and hold on to an ancient set of beliefs and culture that goes BCE.

All these nations are in India's sphere of influence, as neighbors. OK< maybe Japan will go there as well as Korea but I don't know. Iraq and Syria are probably beyond hope now, sadly. Indonesia MIGHT follow suit if there is a general movement away, but their brand is relatively moderate so probably not.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 24 Sep 2019 19:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 24 Sep 2019 19:46

PankajJi et. al, good points in response to my observations. Keenly waiting for any joint statement or press conference after today's meeting between ModiJi and Trump bahadur. Then we can look at the whole situation holistically and gauge the hits and misses.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 20:20

IF one want's to evaluate Modi trip very narrowly, based on the recent noise surrounding Kashmir A.370 action, Modi has already scored and won!

Trump/Modi rally is over and so is Trump-Dimram talks. Kashmir, either generally or specifically wrt latest Indian action, has not figured in US/Trump talking points beyond the usual polite position. In contrast, Trump called spoke of Radical Islamist Terrorism and the need to fight it and Modi spoke on the 9/11 and 26/11 having its origin in bakistan. In effect, Trump/US has endorsed Indian strike on Balakot!

What else is left? Dimran can bark as much as he want at UNGA. He could not even get a resolution introduced at UNHRC, when all that was needed was just 16 votes, with OIC members having 15 votes and China's backing! This inspite of the full backing of all kinds of dubious human right organization across the world, full anti-Modi Indian sickular and seekoolar brigade backing, individual political actor backing in many bestern capitals and backing of almost all bestern press including your favorite "NYT/WaPo/Gardian/LA Times"!

The sky is not falling no matter what happens next between Trump-Modi. We are past the hump as they say. The outcome was sealed after Howdy Modi rally, especially with Trump's speech. Rest is all fluff, a little more or a little less. Doesn't matter to me.

Apart from Kashmir/A.370, there was hardly any issue on which India could have been pinned down this year. Rest is all gains or not. BTW, the way Modi handled Trump during Howdy Modi has increased Modi's stature with world leaders across the world. If we get to see their private interactions, which we will not, we will see a perceptible shift in the posture of "most" other leaders when talking to Modi. Make no mistake.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 24 Sep 2019 21:11

Pankaj, not so fast. Trump has again re-iterated his mediation BS. Now while one can point to the fact he does preface this mediation BS with 'if both sides want it', his latest statement is that he is 'concerned'. So lets not dismiss this out of hand. When he keeps repeating this mediation despite India showing the middle finger means he is pushing the button. Something is definitely cooking.

Leaving aside the bad optics post Houston, there is potential impact on the ground. TSP and its KM proxies will continue to be irredentist, and will slowly but surely up the pigLeT ante to get Trump's attention. And each time Trump repeats this mediation BS without underscoring the crux of the problem: TSP, pigLeTs, radical Islam, it only encourages TSP and KMs further, and ModiJi's attempt to bring genuine normalcy becomes that much more difficult.

From rediff:


0:02 Trump again pitches to help between India & Pak:
US President Donald Trump on Tuesday once again made a pitch to help resolve differences between India and Pakistan, in the fourth offer at mediation which India has strongly opposed so far.

"I think as far as Pakistan is concerned, India, they're talking, I'm certainly willing to help. I think they would in a certain way like my help. But they've to both want it. They have very different views and I'm concerned about it," he told reporters ahead of his address to the UN General Assembly.

The statement comes less than 24 hours after Trump, with Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan by his side, renewed his offer of arbitration on Kashmir.

India responded curtly to the offer, saying its position - that there can be no third-party mediation - is known.

The Foreign Ministry urged the media to wait for Tuesday, when President Trump and Prime Minister Narendra Modi are set to meet for talks.

Addressing a joint briefing before his talks with Imran Khan, President Trump said if India and Pakistan wanted him to mediate on Kashmir, he was "ready, willing and able".

"If I can help, I will certainly help... If both (India and Pakistan) want, I am ready to do it... I have very good relationship with Prime Minister Modi. I have very good relationship with Prime Minister Khan... I would be an extremely good arbitrator. I have never failed as an arbitrator," said the US president, despite India rebuffing the suggestion twice before.

Last edited by CRamS on 24 Sep 2019 21:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 21:14

CRamS wrote:Pankaj, not so fast. Trump has again re-iterated his mediation BS. Now while one can point to the fact he does preface this mediation BS with 'if both sides want it', his latest statement is that he is 'concerned'. So lets not dismiss this ut of hand. When he keeps repeating this mediation despite India showing the middle finger means he is pushing the button. Something is definitely cooking.

Leaving aside the bad optics post Houston, there is potential impact on the ground. TSP and its KM proxies will continue to be irredentist, and will slowly but surely up the pigLeT ante to get Trump's attention. And each time Trump repeats this mediation BS without underscoring the crus of the problem: TSP, pigLeTs, radical Islam, it only encourages TSP and KMs further, and ModiJi's attempt to bring genuine normalcy becomes that much more difficult.

From rediff:


0:02 Trump again pitches to help between India & Pak:
US President Donald Trump on Tuesday once again made a pitch to help resolve differences between India and Pakistan, in the fourth offer at mediation which India has strongly opposed so far.

"I think as far as Pakistan is concerned, India, they're talking, I'm certainly willing to help. I think they would in a certain way like my help. But they've to both want it. They have very different views and I'm concerned about it," he told reporters ahead of his address to the UN General Assembly.

The statement comes less than 24 hours after Trump, with Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan by his side, renewed his offer of arbitration on Kashmir.

India responded curtly to the offer, saying its position - that there can be no third-party mediation - is known.



The Foreign Ministry urged the media to wait for Tuesday, when President Trump and Prime Minister Narendra Modi are set to meet for talks.

Addressing a joint briefing before his talks with Imran Khan, President Trump said if India and Pakistan wanted him to mediate on Kashmir, he was "ready, willing and able".

"If I can help, I will certainly help... If both (India and Pakistan) want, I am ready to do it... I have very good relationship with Prime Minister Modi. I have very good relationship with Prime Minister Khan... I would be an extremely good arbitrator. I have never failed as an arbitrator," said the US president, despite India rebuffing the suggestion twice before.

Saaru you can keep waiting for the sky to fall on you all you want. I am done after the Trump-Dimran meeting where Dimran wasn't able to get anything out of Trump. He can bark as much as he wants at UNGA.

BTW,
1. He has re-ignited you and I can understand that but not myself. I am comfortable.
2. Quite a few countries have expressed their "concern" and that is nothing new. You can cultivate all the concerns you want while I sleep peacefully with the confidence that Dimran got nothing for his efforts except a few words that are meaningless.
3. Bad optics? :rotfl: You too have become a drain inspector searching for gold. Best of luck.
4. Kashmir is limping towards normalcy inspite of all Bakis antics for the past months. Theek hai.
5. How scared must you be with the mention of "mediation" and how little it take to trigger you. I sympathize with you. However, Modi is made from different stuff.

Just so you can do some more dhoti shiver, please put this video in loop and watch to your hearts is filled with dread, if that is what swings it for you. Ejnoy!


In the meanwhile, I am enjoying some other videos that I will be posting on the Terroristan thread.
Last edited by pankajs on 24 Sep 2019 21:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 24 Sep 2019 21:29

Trump isn't interested in mediating anything. He knows he has no interest in sitting down for long hours to understand the deep nuances of a complex problem, putting aside his own self and and patiently focusing on getting two other parties to get along well, such that they're at the center of attention. He's interested in attention and publicity for HIMSELF with the lowest possible amount of effort on his part. Ever seen a bombastic attention seeker ever succeed in a quiet patient mediator's role ? Nope.

He knows that any actual mediation will be about the parties themselves, not about attention for him. However, if he keeps offering to mediate, and the two countries happen to later talk, he gets to spin it as having been the mediator, without going anything more than gas about it.

Take a while to understand the man and his motives - he wants attention and recognition. He has no interest in actually doing work for it, he just wants to maneuver himself into a position to walk away with some of the spoils.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 24 Sep 2019 21:41

Most laughable part about Talib's CFR interview is his so called 'concern for climate change'. I mean this is like a congenital thief wanting to talking about interests rates and not introspect about his abhorrent behavior. This climate change talk has become another 'liberal' fashion. Not that climate change is not a serious issue, but more so because chutiyas like Talib have no clue on what it entails.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Sep 2019 23:52

Suraj wrote:Treating Trump like any prior establishment POTUS is a mistake. That is not how he works. To expect stable policy position statements from him is like expecting calm, rational and mature behavior from a pre-teen. But it's a mistake to just see him as immature. Maybe he is, but it's more worthwhile to focus on his motives than his personality.

He is a mercantile-minded businessman and an egotist. His standard operating procedure is to place himself into any business where he thinks he can rattle the cage a bit, position himself as some kind of deal-maker, and hopefully get some kind of recognition for it, or concessions from others who were taken aback by his aggressive maneuvering and handed him the initiative.

He also holds a long grudge against Obama, dating back to when he was publicly made fun of by the latter at the WH press correspondents dinner in the early 2010s. Domestic policy wise, he's been intent on eliminating some of the things that comprise BOs legacy, and elsewhere, seeks parity with BO (e.g. a No Bill Piss Prize).

Trump LOVES attention. More importantly, he hates not being at the center of it. In that regard, handing him the Nehru Prize or something is a great idea. A yuuge grand ceremony of course, far in excess of anything else. Lots of bling and gold as well . Why make him search for a Piss Prize, when one can easily be handed to him - with a useful name like Nehru on it too.

Love the idea. It will trigger the Nehru-bhakts of libleft so nicely. Yummmm.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 25 Sep 2019 00:04

The bakis tried the noball pi$$ prize bait too to lure Trump.

https://twitter.com/iamthedrifter/statu ... 3462760448
Ayesha Siddiqa @iamthedrifter

Just watched Trump-Imran presser - Trump avoided every question on Kashmir doesn't look like he will attend to the issue despite the PM and journalists tried hard to catch his attention

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Sep 2019 00:13

CRamS wrote:Pankaj, not so fast. Trump has again re-iterated his mediation BS. Now while one can point to the fact he does preface this mediation BS with 'if both sides want it', his latest statement is that he is 'concerned'. So lets not dismiss this out of hand. When he keeps repeating this mediation despite India showing the middle finger means he is pushing the button. Something is definitely cooking.

Leaving aside the bad optics post Houston, there is potential impact on the ground. TSP and its KM proxies will continue to be irredentist, and will slowly but surely up the pigLeT ante to get Trump's attention. And each time Trump repeats this mediation BS without underscoring the crux of the problem: TSP, pigLeTs, radical Islam, it only encourages TSP and KMs further, and ModiJi's attempt to bring genuine normalcy becomes that much more difficult.

From rediff:


0:02 Trump again pitches to help between India & Pak:
US President Donald Trump on Tuesday once again made a pitch to help resolve differences between India and Pakistan, in the fourth offer at mediation which India has strongly opposed so far.

"I think as far as Pakistan is concerned, India, they're talking, I'm certainly willing to help. I think they would in a certain way like my help. But they've to both want it. They have very different views and I'm concerned about it," he told reporters ahead of his address to the UN General Assembly.

The statement comes less than 24 hours after Trump, with Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan by his side, renewed his offer of arbitration on Kashmir.

India responded curtly to the offer, saying its position - that there can be no third-party mediation - is known.

The Foreign Ministry urged the media to wait for Tuesday, when President Trump and Prime Minister Narendra Modi are set to meet for talks.

Addressing a joint briefing before his talks with Imran Khan, President Trump said if India and Pakistan wanted him to mediate on Kashmir, he was "ready, willing and able".

"If I can help, I will certainly help... If both (India and Pakistan) want, I am ready to do it... I have very good relationship with Prime Minister Modi. I have very good relationship with Prime Minister Khan... I would be an extremely good arbitrator. I have never failed as an arbitrator," said the US president, despite India rebuffing the suggestion twice before.


I agree with you to the extent that it would be good to remove all hope from Pakis, of the Pakistani as well as the Indian variety, with one single declaration, to be cast in concrete forever, from the world leader with the most fearsome military. But that's not going to happen, for a lot of very good reasons.

I think our task here is to take readings, separate the wheat from the chaff, identify what are the signals, what progress is being made, and learn & correct our readings as they match up with events on the ground.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Sep 2019 00:18

Suraj wrote:Trump isn't interested in mediating anything. He knows he has no interest in sitting down for long hours to understand the deep nuances of a complex problem, putting aside his own self and and patiently focusing on getting two other parties to get along well, such that they're at the center of attention. He's interested in attention and publicity for HIMSELF with the lowest possible amount of effort on his part. Ever seen a bombastic attention seeker ever succeed in a quiet patient mediator's role ? Nope.

He knows that any actual mediation will be about the parties themselves, not about attention for him. However, if he keeps offering to mediate, and the two countries happen to later talk, he gets to spin it as having been the mediator, without going anything more than gas about it.

Take a while to understand the man and his motives - he wants attention and recognition. He has no interest in actually doing work for it, he just wants to maneuver himself into a position to walk away with some of the spoils.

Trump is like an animal that has been trained to do a few tricks, and will keep trying the same tricks over and over again. To be fair, most human beings, most leaders, and certainly the Indian left-libs are all like that. They are not thoughtful IIT / IIM / McKinsey types who will gather information, analyze and develop a solution. That's a mental faculty that requires talent, training and development. It is not the norm for "regular folks."

One of Trump's businesses in NYC / NJ before the Apprentice days was to inject himself in the middle of a business negotiation, & without putting any of his own money into it, just lend his brand and collect hefty consultation fees. That is the instinct that kicks in with India / Pakistan. There may not be monetary fees (though, knowing Trump, there may well be) but at least there will be prestige and brand enhancement.

Modi has Trump's number. And even as we speak, Trump is benefiting a lot among Indian-Americans due to the Modi association. Just look at the HowdyMody video to see who grabbed whose hand and raised it up, who was playing the senior role and who was playing the junior role. Trump understands that Modi has given him this boost, essentially for free, asking for nothing in return right away, just banking it for later use.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby kit » 25 Sep 2019 01:26

KLNMurthy wrote:
Suraj wrote:Trump isn't interested in mediating anything. He knows he has no interest in sitting down for long hours to understand the deep nuances of a complex problem, putting aside his own self and and patiently focusing on getting two other parties to get along well, such that they're at the center of attention. He's interested in attention and publicity for HIMSELF with the lowest possible amount of effort on his part. Ever seen a bombastic attention seeker ever succeed in a quiet patient mediator's role ? Nope.

He knows that any actual mediation will be about the parties themselves, not about attention for him. However, if he keeps offering to mediate, and the two countries happen to later talk, he gets to spin it as having been the mediator, without going anything more than gas about it.

Take a while to understand the man and his motives - he wants attention and recognition. He has no interest in actually doing work for it, he just wants to maneuver himself into a position to walk away with some of the spoils.

Trump is like an animal that has been trained to do a few tricks, and will keep trying the same tricks over and over again. To be fair, most human beings, most leaders, and certainly the Indian left-libs are all like that. They are not thoughtful IIT / IIM / McKinsey types who will gather information, analyze and develop a solution. That's a mental faculty that requires talent, training and development. It is not the norm for "regular folks."

One of Trump's businesses in NYC / NJ before the Apprentice days was to inject himself in the middle of a business negotiation, & without putting any of his own money into it, just lend his brand and collect hefty consultation fees. That is the instinct that kicks in with India / Pakistan. There may not be monetary fees (though, knowing Trump, there may well be) but at least there will be prestige and brand enhancement.

Modi has Trump's number. And even as we speak, Trump is benefiting a lot among Indian-Americans due to the Modi association. Just look at the HowdyMody video to see who grabbed whose hand and raised it up, who was playing the senior role and who was playing the junior role. Trump understands that Modi has given him this boost, essentially for free, asking for nothing in return right away, just banking it for later use.


There is one.Keep off kashmir. POK is going to be Indian. Trump is not so stupid.He seems to have got that right, whatever the Im the dim says and does , trump would give some lip talk to keep him happy. I want to see what the paki Army does next seeing their dimmy failing everywhere. And *that* is what India is really waiting for.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 25 Sep 2019 01:37

KLNMurthy wrote:Modi has Trump's number. And even as we speak, Trump is benefiting a lot among Indian-Americans due to the Modi association. Just look at the HowdyMody video to see who grabbed whose hand and raised it up, who was playing the senior role and who was playing the junior role. Trump understands that Modi has given him this boost, essentially for free, asking for nothing in return right away, just banking it for later use.

I couldn't agree more. Modi gets Trump's character and motives, even though most posters here are making the mistake of viewing his actions from the perspective of their concerns and not Trump's. That's the wrong way to look at it. Understand what he covets, and his actions make sense very quickly.

The reality is that anything involving Trump is first a set of actions where DT is trying to get something for himself. The man isn't interested in the details of a peace process or a trade negotiation. He's a rent seeker interested in getting $$ and recognition for himself by association. His own country's nuanced interests are also beyond his pale.

Modi understands this. Trump is a man who likes the spotlight on him. Anything Trump can get that makes him look good, or makes him look like he did something Obama couldn't, he'll take. That's why it makes great sense for Trump for be the first (and only) awardee of the Nehru Peace Prize for contributions to whirled peas. It has to be a colorful shiny trophy, that he can keep on his mantelpiece.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Sep 2019 01:44

I think GoI is missing a huge opportunity. Use Trump to mediate how TSP will return PoK so it can be merged back into J&K.

Give Trump the Nehru Piss Prize (which puts him with the likes of Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King), and hand him a big lottery type check of Rs. 25 million. He’ll have a smile from ear to ear.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 25 Sep 2019 01:48, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 25 Sep 2019 01:46

kit wrote:There is one.Keep off kashmir. POK is going to be Indian. Trump is not so stupid.He seems to have got that right, whatever the Im the dim says and does , trump would give some lip talk to keep him happy. I want to see what the paki Army does next seeing their dimmy failing everywhere. And *that* is what India is really waiting for.

Trump is not interested in Kashmir or the dispute. It's doubtful whether he even understands that the dispute is not about wool garments.

He's interested in the name 'Trump' somehow having been associated with anything that later happened there, that his PR can spin as being something he had to do with.

That means he's not telling us to do any particular thing because he doesn't know anything about the matter to tell anyone to do anything. He's not constraining our space to act there. The Bakis *think* he can do so.

Modi is quite happy to do what he intends to do in J&K. And then call DT and tell him thanks for your support and encouragement, whereupon DT will immediately telephone Oslo and demand a No Bull Piss Prize for whatever it is Modi told him he did.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Sep 2019 01:46

kit:I want to see what the paki Army does next seeing their dimmy failing everywhere. And *that* is what India is really waiting for.


Very interesting. A batsman with his batting average, or a bowler who gets hit for as many 6s with no wickets, would be out of the team, hain? Bakis, esp. PA are amazingly patient with the performance of their PeeEm. Wonder for how long.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vimal » 25 Sep 2019 01:48

Mort Walker wrote:I think GoI is missing a huge opportunity. Use Trump to mediate how TSP will return PoK so it can be merged back into J&K.

Give Trump the Nehru Prize (which puts him with the likes of Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King), and hand him a big lottery type check of Rs. 25 million. He’ll have a smile from ear to ear.


That actually sounds quite plausible. Almost like a Judo move where you use the momentum of your opponent to defeat them.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby kit » 25 Sep 2019 01:50

Suraj wrote:
kit wrote:There is one.Keep off kashmir. POK is going to be Indian. Trump is not so stupid.He seems to have got that right, whatever the Im the dim says and does , trump would give some lip talk to keep him happy. I want to see what the paki Army does next seeing their dimmy failing everywhere. And *that* is what India is really waiting for.

Trump is not interested in Kashmir or the dispute. It's doubtful whether he even understands that the dispute is not about wool garments.

He's interested in the name 'Trump' somehow having been associated with anything that later happened there, that his PR can spin as being something he had to do with.

That means he's not telling us to do any particular thing because he doesn't know anything about the matter to tell anyone to do anything. He's not constraining our space to act there. The Bakis *think* he can do so.

Modi is quite happy to do what he intends to do in J&K. And then call DT and tell him thanks for your support and encouragement, whereupon DT will immediately telephone Oslo and demand a No Bull Piss Prize for whatever it is Modi told him he did.


You might as well be prophetic , boss !! .. its going to be time soon .. and this time its going to be POK ( and exactly why did china halt its investments in POK and ?)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Sep 2019 01:52

Then India has a border with Afghanistan and help the US out to stabilise the region bring world piss. All thanks to the Donald’s visionary efforts using the “Art of the Deal”.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 25 Sep 2019 01:53

kit:I want to see what the paki Army does next seeing their dimmy failing everywhere. And *that* is what India is really waiting for.



Why? India has no more interest in ousting Dimran from Pakistani PM-ship than BJP has in ousting Pappu & Family from ruling over the INC. Not that anyone who replaces Dimran is likely to be competent, exactly, but would they actually walk up to the international spotlight and say things like "Our Army & ISI trained Al-Qaeda"? :D

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 25 Sep 2019 01:55

Guys, nobody is stupid including dare I say Talib and his TSPA/ISI handlers. What Trump has effectively done with his equal equal BS is that at the very least, there are no political/diplomatic repercussions for TSP's thuggery and they can continue down the same path. Because lets face it, TSP knows that its trump card (no pun) is pigLeT havoc. Trump has assured them that there will no repercussions for that. This is complete trun around from the Trump of yore where he demanded good behavior from TSP. Why he gave in beats me.

I mean its like a judge telling a rapist and a rape victim, both of you are my friends and you are both my munnas and I will sit and have chai biskoot with both of you if want. So basically, the rapist and rape victim are at the same moral equivalence in the eyes of the judge. I would say the rapist will be laughing his ass off to the bank.

Ultimately, as I said earlier, its the ground situation. Recalcitrant KMs in collusion with TSP and ModiJi haters in India are going to continue to defy and embarrass Indian govt, the same cycle of accusations and counter accusations will continue, and both will cling on to some dog bone Trump threw in their favor. After FATF desists from putting TSP on the black list, for sure they will activate pigLeTs and it will be de javu all over again. My hope is the Indian army is prepared to deliver muh thod jawab.

It is neither naive nor unreasonable to expect Trump to have issued a statement in public that for any progress, TSP will have to stop terror and that includes terror against India. If after all that bonhomie in Houston, he cannot say something as reasonable as that in favor of a strategic partner, and after all the praise of ModiJi and India he doled out; then I think the whole show was a charade.

And it f!king annoys me no end that this buffoon Trump is obsessed with Iran. I mean Iranian TFTA honchos will GUBO before him infinitly more than TSP RAPE will, but still he wants to annihilate them for whatever reason.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Sep 2019 01:58

^^^You have so little faith in the IA and MAD.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 25 Sep 2019 02:11

Trump isn't obsessed with Iran in particular. Of course the meat of the Iran issue is SD driven. But Trump is obsessed with anyone who makes him look bad. He has a longer history with Elton John and has been more obsessed with that pop star than he is with whoever is the current Ayatollah! All because Trump wanted EltonJ to play at his inauguration and the latter told him no thanks. If you publicly mock him, he'll NEVER forget it. They say this moment is when Trump decided he would contest for President:


Trump does not like others making him look bad in public. The best thing to do when he makes demands is not respond angrily and tell him his place, but to soothingly nod and say the discussions will be formalized for later (all complete bs). Within a while he'll have context switched to some other twitter rant.

That's why the whole 'how dare he stick his nose in our business' reactive response is a bad idea. He's already barged into everyone's business and will keep doing so, because he's interested in his own self interest being associated with it. Just get on with it and tell him he'll totally be part of whatever is decided upon, and before you can finish the sentence he'll have moved on to something else.

He doesn't have the interest or attention span to actually constrain India's interests. He's only interested in getting credit for anything that happened, somehow.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby kit » 25 Sep 2019 02:13

Rudradev wrote:
kit:I want to see what the paki Army does next seeing their dimmy failing everywhere. And *that* is what India is really waiting for.



Why? India has no more interest in ousting Dimran from Pakistani PM-ship than BJP has in ousting Pappu & Family from ruling over the INC. Not that anyone who replaces Dimran is likely to be competent, exactly, but would they actually walk up to the international spotlight and say things like "Our Army & ISI trained Al-Qaeda"? :D


maybe the Dim thought it was a bargaining card :mrgreen: ( oh look we did this, so you know what we "can" do :rotfl: )., honestly i think the stars align at these moments in history keeping idiots exactly they are needed.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 25 Sep 2019 02:18

Suraj wrote:
Vikas wrote:Gandhi Peace prize you mean..(Who knows Nehru outside lootens Delhi)

If there's no Nehru Peace Prize, of course DT must be the first recepient of it. All the more importance for him.


Either of the prizes to Trump may cost a few thousand greenbacks to put up the show, but the look on the faces of the liberandus would be priceless, especially so because they would feel that something like that should have been given to Billary or Ombaba first.


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