India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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nvishal
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 10 Feb 2020 23:27

Prithvi missiles, nasams 2 and s400. What is the plan?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vamsee » 10 Feb 2020 23:28

Sumeet,

I am surprised and disappointed because we have developed good competence in this area with Akash/ MRSAM / QRSAM & now planning XRSAM and S-400 in near future. So why spend ~2 Bn for a sanctions prone US system? It would have been a better option if we just focused on our own systems.

Since it was not in news & appeared suddenly, I was surprised.

--Vamsee

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nam » 10 Feb 2020 23:34

Looks like the ground is been made for selling Aim120 C7 to PAF. With we having C7 & Meteor, it will be not disturb the "balance of power".

Amazing speed from AON to US approval, while everything else moves at snail's pace.

If GoI wants things can move fast..
Last edited by nam on 10 Feb 2020 23:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 10 Feb 2020 23:40

This is what Chinese observers claim

China Says India Can’t Build An Effective Missile Defense System
nationalinterest dot org /blog/buzz/china-says-india-can%E2%80%99t-build-effective-missile-defense-system-120006

“Generally speaking, although India has made considerable progress in the independent R&D and deployment of ballistic missile defense system in recent years, it is still faced with a string of difficulties, such as inadequate capital, unsmooth R&D process, heavy reliance on other countries regarding key technology, and incomplete systems,” writes Fang Xiaozhi, a researcher at the BRI Institute of Strategy and International Security at Fudan University. “New Delhi has a long way to go before it can establish a truly effective ballistic missile defense system and fully exert its real combat force.”


Indian BMD is a two-tiered system similar to the U.S. Safeguard system of the 1960s: long-range Prithvi rockets (based in the Prithvi tactical ballistic missile) for exo-atmospheric intercepts in space, and the Advanced Area Defense missile for endo-atmospheric intercepts within the Earth's atmosphere, when the target warhead is descending through the atmosphere.


“India has adopted the most conservative plan in all its anti-missile tests - only intercepting a target whose launching spot, flying velocity and direction, altitude or ballistic parameters are all known and there is no actively maneuvering and changing trajectory,” Fang said. “This testing approach of ‘hitting a fixed target’ doesn’t comply with real combat situation, nor can it truly test the anti-missile system’s stability and reliability, so the testing results are hardly reliable.”

Fang also asserted that India doesn’t have the technological backbone for effective missile defense. “A missile defense system is a very complicated project that reflects a major country’s overall strength, and it requires a thorough and solid technical foundation in terms of anti-missile early warning system, missile interception system and command and control system, in all of which India has nothing much to say for itself. Compared with Russia, the US, Israel and other countries with strong anti-missile capabilities, India’s technology is completely left behind and its R&D has had too many twists and turns. Besides, it has conducted too few tests, far from enough for it to fully understand the technology.”

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vamsee » 10 Feb 2020 23:52

^^^^^

When did China became Raja Harishchandra? Why should we swallow their propaganda uncritically? BRF has literally tracked every single indigenous program with a magnifying glass & studied almost every single obscure info from CAG reports to chaiwallah info. Our Missile program is extremely good.

--Vamsee

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 11 Feb 2020 00:24

Then why are we buying nasams and s400?

If I remember correctly, NASAMS was originally requested by india after the S400 shitstorm where the Americans had threatened us with sanctions. Trump will visit soon so that's why they've put this approval page of their site. They just want India to buy their stuff even though it is redundent. Although, some members here had argued that NASAMS was a cheaper alternative to strike drones type targets

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 11 Feb 2020 00:49

nvishal wrote:Then why are we buying nasams and s400?

If I remember correctly, NASAMS was originally requested by india after the S400 shitstorm where the Americans had threatened us with sanctions. Trump will visit soon so that's why they've put this approval page of their site. They just want India to buy their stuff even though it is redundent. Although, some members here had argued that NASAMS was a cheaper alternative to strike drones type targets

S400? Because there is no other system that offers not only limited bmd but also very potent ultra long range Sam capability vs cruise missiles and aircraft. Add to this its mobility. That's a rather unique niche.

NASAMS? I'm really not sure why when there is Akash. Should have got guardians instead. Could be some kind of inter service rivalry because the Navy is getting the mh60s.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Prem » 11 Feb 2020 03:15

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1 ... 76199?s=20

President
@realDonaldTrump & @FLOTUS
will travel to India from February 24-25 to visit Prime Minister @narendramodi!

The trip will further strengthen the U.S.-India strategic partnership & highlight the strong & enduring bonds between the American & Indian people.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Gerard » 11 Feb 2020 03:51

nvishal wrote:Prithvi missiles, nasams 2 and s400. What is the plan?


As per the proposed air defense plan for Delhi, the outermost layer of the missile shield will consist of two-tier ballistic missile defence (BMD) system being developed by state-run DRDO, the second layer will be through the highly automated and mobile S-400 systems, and the innermost layer of protection will be through the NASAMS.
The innermost layer will be a combination of different weapons like Stinger surface-to-air missiles, gun systems and AIM-120C-7 AMRAAMs (advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles), backed by three-dimensional Sentinel radars, fire-distribution centres and command-and-control units.
The DRDO system’s AAD (advanced air defence) and PAD (Prithvi air defence) interceptor missiles are currently geared to intercept enemy missiles, in the 2,000-km class, at altitudes from 15-25 km to 80-100 km. The second layer consisting of S-400 systems will have missiles with interception ranges of 120, 200, 250 and 380 km, backed by their associated battle-management system of command posts and launchers, long-range acquisition and engagement radars. This is followed by Barak-8 medium-range surface-to-air missile systems with 70-100 km interception range, and the indigenous Akash area defence missile systems with a 25-km range.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/24908 ... kHSJNEpCf0

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 11 Feb 2020 04:57



Manga: Make america newly great again

(Added later) Oh, she already got that on her website https://manga4va11.com/home/

"Make AmericaNs Great Again"

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 11 Feb 2020 06:14



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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 11 Feb 2020 14:40

Vamsee wrote:^^^^^

When did China became Raja Harishchandra? Why should we swallow their propaganda uncritically? BRF has literally tracked every single indigenous program with a magnifying glass & studied almost every single obscure info from CAG reports to chaiwallah info. Our Missile program is extremely good.

--Vamsee


Exactly. The Chinese are fishing for info, and lets not be silly and insecure enough to provide it to them.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nam » 11 Feb 2020 14:48

nvishal wrote:Then why are we buying nasams and s400?


I wish we have paid the blood money for some other kit. However the Aim120 is the only silver lining. And it will allow us to extend QRSAM to cover drone and cruise missile.

But then the only worth buying things which only the US has: C130,C17 & F35.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rony » 12 Feb 2020 02:05

Long read but lots of interesting info. US-German-Swedish-Swiss collaboration under CIA leadership. Siemens and Motorola also involved along with Crypto. This explains why the US is so concerned about Huawei which is doing what they themselves did for decades and most likely still doing.

How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries including India for decades

The company, Crypto AG, got its first break with a contract to build code-making machines for U.S. troops during World War II. Flush with cash, it became a dominant maker of encryption devices for decades, navigating waves of technology from mechanical gears to electronic circuits and, finally, silicon chips and software.

The Swiss firm made millions of dollars selling equipment to more than 120 countries well into the 21st century. Its clients included Iran, military juntas in Latin America, nuclear rivals India and Pakistan, and even the Vatican.

But what none of its customers ever knew was that Crypto AG was secretly owned by the CIA in a highly classified partnership with West German intelligence. These spy agencies rigged the company’s devices so they could easily break the codes that countries used to send encrypted messages.

The decades-long arrangement, among the most closely guarded secrets of the Cold War, is laid bare in a classified, comprehensive CIA history of the operation obtained by The Washington Post and ZDF, a German public broadcaster, in a joint reporting project.

The account identifies the CIA officers who ran the program and the company executives entrusted to execute it. It traces the origin of the venture as well as the internal conflicts that nearly derailed it. It describes how the United States and its allies exploited other nations’ gullibility for years, taking their money and stealing their secrets.

The operation, known first by the code name “Thesaurus” and later “Rubicon,” ranks among the most audacious in CIA history.

“It was the intelligence coup of the century,” the CIA report concludes. “Foreign governments were paying good money to the U.S. and West Germany for the privilege of having their most secret communications read by at least two (and possibly as many as five or six) foreign countries.

From 1970 on, the CIA and its code-breaking sibling, the National Security Agency, controlled nearly every aspect of Crypto’s operations — presiding with their German partners over hiring decisions, designing its technology, sabotaging its algorithms and directing its sales targets.

Then, the U.S. and West German spies sat back and listened.

They monitored Iran’s mullahs during the 1979 hostage crisis, fed intelligence about Argentina’s military to Britain during the Falklands War, tracked the assassination campaigns of South American dictators and caught Libyan officials congratulating themselves on the 1986 bombing of a Berlin disco.

The program had limits. America’s main adversaries, including the Soviet Union and China, were never Crypto customers. Their well-founded suspicions of the company’s ties to the West shielded them from exposure,
although the CIA history suggests that U.S. spies learned a great deal by monitoring other countries’ interactions with Moscow and Beijing.


The German spy agency, the BND, came to believe the risk of exposure was too great and left the operation in the early 1990s. But the CIA bought the Germans’ stake and simply kept going, wringing Crypto for all its espionage worth until 2018, when the agency sold off the company’s assets, according to current and former officials.

The company’s importance to the global security market had fallen by then, squeezed by the spread of online encryption technology. Once the province of governments and major corporations, strong encryption is now as ubiquitous as apps on cellphones.

Even so, the Crypto operation is relevant to modern espionage. Its reach and duration helps to explain how the United States developed an insatiable appetite for global surveillance that was exposed in 2013 by Edward Snowden. There are also echoes of Crypto in the suspicions swirling around modern companies with alleged links to foreign governments, including the Russian anti-virus firm Kaspersky, a texting app tied to the United Arab Emirates and the Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei.

The Swiss government announced on Tuesday that it was launching an investigation of Crypto AG’s ties to the CIA and BND. Earlier this month, Swiss officials revoked Crypto International’s export license.

The timing of the Swiss moves was curious. The CIA and BND documents indicate that Swiss officials must have known for decades about Crypto’s ties to the U.S. and German spy services, but intervened only after learning that news organizations were about to expose the arrangement.

By the end of the 1960s, Hagelin was nearing 80 and anxious to secure the future for his company, which had grown to more than 180 employees. CIA officials were similarly anxious about what would happen to the operation if Hagelin were to suddenly sell or die.

Hagelin had once hoped to turn control over to his son, Bo. But U.S. intelligence officials regarded him as a “wild card” and worked to conceal the partnership from him. Bo Hagelin was killed in a car crash on Washington’s Beltway in 1970. There were no indications of foul play
.

In 1967, Hagelin was approached by the French intelligence service with an offer to buy the company in partnership with German intelligence. Hagelin rebuffed the offer and reported it to his CIA handlers. But two years later, the Germans came back seeking to make a follow-up bid with the blessing of the United States.

In a meeting in early 1969 at the West German Embassy in Washington, the head of that country’s cipher service, Wilhelm Goeing, outlined the proposal and asked whether the Americans “were interested in becoming partners too.”

Months later, CIA Director Richard Helms approved the idea of buying Crypto and dispatched a subordinate to Bonn, the West German capital, to negotiate terms with one major caveat: the French, CIA officials told Goeing, would have to be “shut out.”

West Germany acquiesced to this American power play, and a deal between the two spy agencies was recorded in a June 1970 memo

A Liechtenstein law firm, Marxer and Goop, helped hide the identities of the new owners of Crypto through a series of shells and “bearer” shares that required no names in registration documents. The firm was paid an annual salary “less for the extensive work but more for their silence and acceptance,” the BND history says.

Each year, the CIA and BND split any profits Crypto had made, according to the German history, which says the BND handled the accounting and delivered the cash owed to the CIA in an underground parking garage.

From the outset, the partnership was beset by petty disagreements and tensions. To CIA operatives, the BND often seemed preoccupied with turning a profit, and the Americans “constantly reminded the Germans that this was an intelligence operation, not a money-making enterprise.” The Germans were taken aback by the Americans’ willingness to spy on all but its closest allies, with targets including NATO members Spain, Greece, Turkey and Italy.

Mindful of the limitations to their abilities to run a high-tech company, the two agencies brought in corporate outsiders. The Germans enlisted Siemens, a Munich-based conglomerate, to advise Crypto on business and technical issues in exchange for five percent of the company’s sales. The United States later brought in Motorola to fix balky products, making it clear to the company’s CEO this was being done for U.S. intelligence. Siemens declined to comment. Motorola officials did not respond to a request for comment.

To its frustration, Germany was never admitted to the vaunted “Five Eyes,” a long-standing intelligence pact involving the United States, Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. But with the Crypto partnership, Germany moved closer into the American espionage fold than might have seemed possible in World War II’s aftermath. With the secret backing of two of the world’s premiere intelligence agencies and the support of two of the world’s largest corporations, Crypto’s business flourished.

The NSA’s eavesdropping empire was for many years organized around three main geographic targets, each with its own alphabetic code: A for the Soviets, B for Asia and G for virtually everywhere else.

By the early 1980s, more than half of the intelligence gathered by G group was flowing through Crypto machines, a capability that U.S. officials relied on in crisis after crisis.

In 1978, as the leaders of Egypt, Israel and the United States gathered at Camp David for negotiations on a peace accord, the NSA was secretly monitoring the communications of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat back to Cairo.

A year later, after Iranian militants stormed the U.S. Embassy and took 52 American hostages, the Carter administration sought their release in back-channel communications through Algeria

At one point, the NSA intercepted Libyan communications indicating that the president’s brother, Billy Carter, was advancing Libya’s interests in Washington and was on leader Moammar Gaddafi’s payroll.

Inman referred the matter to the Justice Department. The FBI launched an investigation of Carter, who falsely denied taking payments. In the end, he was not prosecuted but agreed to register as a foreign agent.

Throughout the 1980s, the list of Crypto’s leading clients read like a catalogue of global trouble spots. In 1981, Saudi Arabia was Crypto’s biggest customer, followed by Iran, Italy, Indonesia, Iraq, Libya, Jordan and South Korea.

To protect its market position, Crypto and its secret owners engaged in subtle smear campaigns against rival companies, according to the documents, and plied government officials with bribes. Crypto sent an executive to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, with 10 Rolex watches in his luggage, the BND history says, and later arranged a training program for the Saudis in Switzerland where the participants’ “favorite pastime was to visit the brothels, which the company also financed.”

At times, the incentives led to sales to countries ill-equipped to use the complicated systems. Nigeria bought a large shipment of Crypto machines, but two years later, when there was still no corresponding payoff in intelligence, a company representative was sent to investigate. “He found the equipment in a warehouse still in its original packaging,” according to the German document.

In 1982, the Reagan administration took advantage of Argentina’s reliance on Crypto equipment, funneling intelligence to Britain during the two countries’ brief war over the Falkland Islands,

Reagan appears to have jeopardized the Crypto operation after Libya was implicated in the 1986 bombing of a West Berlin disco popular with American troops stationed in West Germany....

Iran, which knew that Libya also used Crypto machines, became increasingly concerned about the security of its equipment. Tehran didn’t act on those suspicions until six years later.


Crypto had become an Oz-like operation with employees probing to see what was behind the curtain. As the 1970s came to a close, the secret partners decided to find a wizard figure who could help devise more advanced — and less detectable — weaknesses in the algorithms, someone with enough cryptological clout to tame the research department.

The two agencies turned to other spy services for potential candidates before settling on an individual put forward by Sweden’s intelligence service. Because of Hagelin’s ties to the country, Sweden had been kept apprised of the operation since its outset.

U.S. spy agencies intercepted more than 19,000 Iranian communications sent via Crypto machines during that nation’s decade-long war with Iraq, mining them for reports on subjects such as Tehran’s terrorist links and attempts to target dissidents.

Iran’s communications were “80 to 90 percent readable” to U.S. spies, according to the CIA document, a figure that would likely have plunged into the single digits had Tehran not used Crypto’s compromised devices.

In 1989, the Vatican’s use of Crypto devices proved crucial in the U.S. manhunt for Panamanian leader Manuel Antonio Noriega. When the dictator sought refuge in the Apostolic Nunciature — the equivalent of a papal embassy — his whereabouts were exposed by the mission’s messages back to Vatican City.

For years, BND officials had recoiled at their American counterpart’s refusal to distinguish adversaries from allies. The two partners often fought over which countries deserved to receive the secure versions of Crypto’s products, with U.S. officials frequently insisting that the rigged equipment be sent to almost anyone — ally or not — who could be deceived into buying it.

In the German history, Wolbert Smidt, the former director of the BND, complained that the United States “wanted to deal with the allies just like they dealt with the countries of the Third World.” Another BND official echoed that comment, saying that to Americans “in the world of intelligence there were no friends.”

The Cold War had ended, the Berlin Wall was down, and the reunified Germany had different sensitivities and priorities. They saw themselves as far more directly exposed to the risks of the Crypto operation. Hydra had rattled the Germans, who feared the disclosure of their involvement would trigger European outrage and lead to enormous political and economic fallout.

In 1993, Konrad Porzner, the chief of the BND, made clear to CIA Director James Woolsey that support in the upper ranks of the German government was waning, and that the Germans might want out of the Crypto partnership.

German intelligence officials rued the departure from an operation they had largely conceived. In the German history, senior intelligence officials blame political leaders for ending one of the most successful espionage programs the BND had ever been a part of.

With their departure, the Germans were soon cut off from the intelligence that the United States continued to gather. Burmeister is quoted in the German history wondering whether Germany still belonged “to this small number of nations who are not read by the Americans.”

The Snowden documents provided what must have been an unsettling answer, showing that U.S. intelligence agencies not only regarded Germany as a target, but monitored German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s cellphone.

By the mid-1990s, “the days of profit were long past,” and Crypto “would have gone out of business but for infusions from the U.S. government.”

As a result, the CIA appears to have spent years propping up an operation that was more viable as an intelligence platform than a business enterprise. Its product line dwindled and its revenue and customer base shrank.

But the intelligence kept coming, current and former officials said, in part because of bureaucratic inertia. Many governments just never got around to switching to newer encryption systems proliferating in the 1990s and beyond — and unplugging their Crypto devices. This was particularly true of less developed nations, according to the documents.

After the BND’s departure, the CIA expanded its clandestine collection of companies in the encryption sector, according to former Western intelligence officials. Using cash amassed from the Crypto operation, the agency secretly acquired a second firm and propped up a third. The documents do not disclose any details about these entities. But the BND history notes that one of Crypto’s longtime rivals — Gretag AG, also based in Switzerland — was “taken over by an ‘American’ and, after a change of names in 2004, was liquidated.”

Crypto itself hobbled along. It had survived the transitions from metal boxes to electronic circuits, going from teletype machines to enciphered voice systems. But it struggled to maintain its footing as the encryption market moved from hardware to software. U.S. intelligence agencies appear to have been content to let the Crypto operation play out, even as the NSA’s attention shifted to finding ways to exploit the global reach of Google, Microsoft, Verizon and other U.S. tech powers.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 12 Feb 2020 10:55

Washington Post.
The CIA secretly spied upon India and others bu secretly owning along with W.zGermany, Swiss encryption co., Crypto AG,which supplied crypto eqpt. ZTto India,Pak,,Iran,etc. The firm was liquidated only in 2018. The devices were rigged so that the encrypted messages Crypto eqpt. is still being used by over a doz. countries.
and codes used by client states were broken.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Manish_P » 14 Feb 2020 10:48

US Declares India As A Developed Nation

Under Trump’s administration, The United States Trade Representative’s (USTR’s) office has declared India as a developed economy.

The Trump administration is changing a key exception to America’s trade-remedy laws to making it easier for the U.S. to penalize about two dozen ‘so-called developing countries’ including China, India and South Africa.

The GSP is America’s oldest preferential trade scheme, which offered Indian exporters tariff-free access. This move is expected to stop all chances of India reclaiming its benefits under the US’ Generalized System of Preferences (GSP) scheme. According to the data from the USTR’s office, India is the largest beneficiary nation under the GSP, with total benefits from tariff exemptions amounting to $260 million in 2018.

According to the government’s estimate, on the criteria of a developing country having less than 0.5 per cent share of global trade, India crossed the limit a few years back. As of 2017, India’s share in global trade was 2.1% for exports and 2.6% for imports.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 16 Feb 2020 11:33


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Arun.prabhu » 16 Feb 2020 19:32

Incorrect. CIA wouldn't need to break the codes. They'd have built in weaknesses that allow them to decrypt anytime as well as backdoors with superuser access to any system they sell us. Or course, the Russians and the Israelis and the French and the English would also have their own backdoors. This is why one shouldn't buy foreign. Make in India is the only way to go!

As for how unfair it is, if we go whining, they'll deny it to our face with a bald faced lie if the relationship is good or they'll tell us to suck it up, buttercup if it isn't. Anyways, I'd be most disappointed if our RAW aren't doing the same thing when we sell products to our client states.

Philip wrote:Washington Post.
The CIA secretly spied upon India and others bu secretly owning along with W.zGermany, Swiss encryption co., Crypto AG,which supplied crypto eqpt. ZTto India,Pak,,Iran,etc. The firm was liquidated only in 2018. The devices were rigged so that the encrypted messages Crypto eqpt. is still being used by over a doz. countries.
and codes used by client states were broken.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 17 Feb 2020 15:14

this is the price that we are paying for the S-400. :mrgreen:

this high priced and needless piece of ameriki crap.


from swarajya mag.



US NASAMS Missile Shield For New Delhi: India Worried Over Very High Price Tag

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chanakyaa » 18 Feb 2020 07:53

India offers U.S. dairy, chicken access in bid for elusive trade deal with Trump
India, the world's largest milk-producing nation, has traditionally restricted dairy imports to protect the livelihoods of 80 million rural households involved in the industry.

India has offered to partially open up its poultry and dairy markets in a bid for a limited trade deal during U.S. President Donald Trump's first official visit to the country this month, people familiar with the protracted talks say.

India, the world's largest milk-producing nation, has traditionally restricted dairy imports to protect the livelihoods of 80 million rural households involved in the industry.


Access to Indian poultry and dairy markets, medical devices, lower customs duties on motorcycles, walnuts, toys, electronics

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vayutuvan » 18 Feb 2020 10:46

hmm. what are we getting in return?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Arun.prabhu » 18 Feb 2020 12:44

I would assume little in return, but perhaps we’ll be pleasantly surprised. Trump and lighthizer are very clear about everyone’s position in the hierarchy wrt America.

Vayutuvan wrote:hmm. what are we getting in return?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vikas » 18 Feb 2020 13:01

Even if we open up Poultry and dairy segments for USA, Doesn't that mean we have to offer same terms and conditions and tariff to other nations too as per WTO.
Also can American corporation fight in Indian market for long ?
Other than Amazon and soft drinks makers I am yet to see many success stories where American players had to compete with others (including local players) to get hold of Indian market and they won.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 18 Feb 2020 13:06

Vayutuvan wrote:hmm. what are we getting in return?


better than "importing" "california" err cashmeri walnuts, almonds and pistachios from POK, enriching jehadis on both sides of the border

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Feb 2020 13:45

chetak wrote:
Vayutuvan wrote:hmm. what are we getting in return?


better than "importing" "california" err cashmeri walnuts, almonds and pistachios from POK, enriching jehadis on both sides of the border


And I strongly believe thats how the Pulwama bomb also came this side

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vikas » 18 Feb 2020 16:43

Aditya_V wrote:
chetak wrote:
better than "importing" "california" err cashmeri walnuts, almonds and pistachios from POK, enriching jehadis on both sides of the border


And I strongly believe thats how the Pulwama bomb also came this side


And money for stone pelters too.
See the time line correlation between stone pelting becoming common and trade at Kashmir LOC.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vishvak » 19 Feb 2020 01:30

Since J&K is UT are not be stone pelters penalised for vandalism.
Other than Amazon and soft drinks makers

Well usually compitition takes down prices which is what is needed wrt Chinese imports.
And strict conditions about the above two points ie price lowering and Chinese stuff only.
Or course, the Russians and the Israelis and the French and the English would also have their own backdoors

Why need seperate spoofing software.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ricky_v » 19 Feb 2020 12:31

https://www.cfr.org/article/field-guide-us-india-trade-tensions
India is the largest market for California almonds, accounting for about $600 million in 2018 exports according to the California Almond Board. Chickpeas, of which India is one of the world’s largest buyers, were hit with [PDF] a 10 percent tariff on top of a 2017 globally applied tariff of 60 percent. The USA Dry Pea & Lentil Council described pulse exports as “devastated” by trade wars underway since 2017.

Negotiations over U.S. dairy products have gone on for years. It is difficult for U.S. dairy farmers to sell their products in India, according to the International Dairy Foods Association [PDF], because India requires that dairy products are “derived from a dairy cow that has been fed a vegetarian diet for its entire life.” India defends its position on religious and cultural grounds, whereas the association calls these requirements “scientifically unwarranted.”

The following year, USTR explained the impact of the price controls in its National Trade Estimate report [PDF] (p.235). U.S. manufacturers sought permission from the Indian regulatory authority to pull these devices from the market but were denied, forcing U.S. suppliers to “sell their products at a loss in the Indian market for up to eighteen months.”

Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 19 Feb 2020 22:41

Importing almonds and walnuts from California is a good thing because of the associated water footprint - these are very water intensive crops. In effect, the US utilizes its own water resources to produce almonds for export to India. Same for meat products - they have a substantial water and resource footprint compared to plant based foods.

On the question of daily products, the US needs to run cattle that is feed only vegetarian feed if they want to do business with India. That is what the customer demands and the customer is always right. Whether they think it is scientifically unwarranted or not is irrelevant. India has every right to ensure compliance with its wishes on any imports.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby V_Raman » 20 Feb 2020 00:52

One requirement India should have on milk should be for A2 protein. Most of USA milk is of A1 protein while Indian (and i believe most european cows) produce milk A2 protein. A1 protein is suppose to cause lactose intolerance.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby V_Raman » 20 Feb 2020 00:53

The biggest import India can do from USA is CNG - till then trade imbalance will persist.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby A_Gupta » 20 Feb 2020 01:08

Brought to you by your friends at Brietbart - Bash the Indian Worker Fest.
From Brietbart to Fox to Trump's ear.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... s-legally/

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vips » 20 Feb 2020 01:15

V_Raman wrote:The biggest import India can do from USA is CNG - till then trade imbalance will persist.


Yes.India should also propose to the US to give preference to and increase its imports from India and in return India should commit to nullify the imbalance in its favor by buying military hardware from US. Its a win-win, India gets to export more and get cutting edge stuff and US secures India as a export market/ strategic ally.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 20 Feb 2020 03:10

chetak wrote:this is the price that we are paying for the S-400. :mrgreen:

this high priced and needless piece of ameriki crap.


from swarajya mag.



US NASAMS Missile Shield For New Delhi: India Worried Over Very High Price Tag


Chetak, What if these are deployed in Kashmir? Will Swift Retort be Broken Nose?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chanakyaa » 20 Feb 2020 08:41


The article is very one sided with classic selection biases. The author conveniently switches between "goods" and "goods and services" when convenient. Nice infographics on the bilateral trade on "goods", but nothing on "services". I don't buy the argument that India has goods & services surplus, but I don't have solid data. Is there good information on, if following areas are accurately accounted for?

Imports
1. Microprocessor chips that goes in Computer, Phone, gadgets and everything digital
2. Softwares that runs on desktop
3. Smartphone maker's payment related to Android, when a Android is sold in India
The hidden costs of building an Android device
4. Google/FB etc. searches, Email is a service, which is an import and it leads to advertisement revenue (Email is free not because someone wanted to do public service)
5. All the electronic components which come via finished electronic maal from China/Japan/Korea

And, what about ownership of assets across the border? It rarely makes into the argumets.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 20 Feb 2020 08:45

Vips wrote:
V_Raman wrote:The biggest import India can do from USA is CNG - till then trade imbalance will persist.


Yes.India should also propose to the US to give preference to and increase its imports from India and in return India should commit to nullify the imbalance in its favor by buying military hardware from US. Its a win-win, India gets to export more and get cutting edge stuff and US secures India as a export market/ strategic ally.



"cutting edge stuff "is a relative term.

we will only get defanged, tamed down, feature constrained "export" quality stuff.

The India version of the P8 is a case in point.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chanakyaa » 20 Feb 2020 08:48

V_Raman wrote:One requirement India should have on milk should be for A2 protein. Most of USA milk is of A1 protein while Indian (and i believe most european cows) produce milk A2 protein. A1 protein is suppose to cause lactose intolerance.

I recently took some interest in efforts towards revitalizing pure desi breeds like Gir, Sahiwal etc. Looks like lots of good efforts are going towards reviving local breed's production. Hope allowing the imports do not affect those efforts. Separately, wasn't the New Zealand company that popularized the A1/A2 thing? Separately, I never really understood in khan land why kaliphornia almonds are sweet (yikes) but the almond cake is artificially make bitter...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby mappunni » 20 Feb 2020 08:57

chanakyaa wrote:
V_Raman wrote:One requirement India should have on milk should be for A2 protein. Most of USA milk is of A1 protein while Indian (and i believe most european cows) produce milk A2 protein. A1 protein is suppose to cause lactose intolerance.

I recently took some interest in efforts towards revitalizing pure desi breeds like Gir, Sahiwal etc. Looks like lots of good efforts are going towards reviving local breed's production. Hope allowing the imports do not affect those efforts. Separately, wasn't the New Zealand company that popularized the A1/A2 thing? Separately, I never really understood in khan land why kaliphornia almonds are sweet (yikes) but the almond cake is artificially make bitter...


A2 Milk is available mostly in stores that sell natural food and now even Costco is selling it. Yes A2 was popularized by New Zealand company and have only seen this from a dairy farm in Colorado.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 20 Feb 2020 13:12

Top import partners of india 2015

1 China 61.5b 15.8%
2 Saudi Arabia 21.4b 5.5%
3 Switzerland 21.1b 5.4%
4 United States 20.5b 5.2%
5 United Arab Emirates 20.3b 5.2%
6 Indonesia 13.9b 3.5%
7 South Korea 13.1b 3.4%
8 Germany 11.8b 3%
9 Iraq 11.3b 2.9%
10 Nigeria 10.2b 2.6%

The US share continues to fall and the share of China continues to increase. The reason is affordability. The only way US can stay in the game is if it can undervalue its currency($US). Neither bush or obama knew what to do. In the recent years, the americans have been trying to push defence sales to try to balance their sheets. The Americans cannot sell their goods in India even if they got top shelf space in malls and kirana stores.

The west is in a sinking ship. Concentrate on trade with non-western states.


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