West Asia News and Discussions

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g.sarkar
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby g.sarkar » 06 Jan 2020 04:00

vivek_ahuja wrote:
IndraD wrote:while it would be more appropriate for Pk thread
why is it that US holds Iran responsible for American death , carries out strikes against their generals but sucks up to Pakistani army who have caused far more destruction to US interests in Afghanistan?

Pak has nuclear weapons with religious fanatics at the gates trying to get in and grab them. Pak army claims to be the ones standing in the way of them getting to it. Effectively Pak is blackmailing the USA into good behavior.

Vivekji,
You can include North Korea with Pakistan. Both are dirt poor, both have the bum and run by fanatics cum cunning people.
Gautam

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Jan 2020 05:13

If this keeps up, parking and air circulation may be much improved in Quom, Mecca and Medina by the time it is all over. Maybe Tel Aviv and Haifa too. Mesopotamia may return to the pristine state that existed b4 the Babylonians started attempting to build skyscrapers w/o benefit of a plumb line.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Jan 2020 08:28

habal wrote:Gen Wesley Clarke mentioned in an old interview
7 countries and the last one is Iran.
what is the significance of these 7 countries ?
once the democratic, relatively anti-wahabbi regimes are toppled, then field becomes clear to spread fundamentalist wahabbi Islam to destabilize caucusus, russia & china. Esp russia.

Stunning. Which brings me closer to a bitter answer to the whole puzzle of "Who is behind the ISIS?"
I thought the answer was "Turkey with KSA funding and Israeli tech training and US mentorship". But that is not the way to look at it.
Turkey and US are obeying ORDERS from ISIS. The strike on Suleimani is a direct order from those who control ISIS: no different from a car bomb, except done from the air. Same as all those strikes by USAF/COW forces against the SAA in Deir ez Zor just as ISIS attacked. The Israelis firing on SAA just as ISIS attacked. The Turkish Army firing on SAA just as ISIS attacked.


US defense forces are not directing ISIS. ISIS is commanding US forces. The WHOTUS was during BO days, and has again become, a pawn of ISIS' bosses. Trump has been leashed.

Now everything makes sense. Lunatic, yes, but it all fits together.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby abhik » 06 Jan 2020 08:48

John wrote:
abhik wrote:Tow major developments of today:
1) Iraqi parliament votes to expel US forces, big win for Iran, but only if they are actually able to follow through.
2) Iran "officially" walks out of the nuclear deal.

They basically did Trump wants which means Europe can no longer work to side step sanctions and salvaging the deal without US.

If the euros could have done something they would have, they have only proved them selved of being completely toothless, after the US pulled out. Iran's only hope as i see it are the Chinese who are have a strategic interest in blunting US sanctions.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby vishvak » 06 Jan 2020 09:38

The Turkish Army firing on SAA just as ISIS attacked.

From Tal Afar battle, bbc.com dated 2017 August 25
Tal Afar's residents are not viewed as helpless victims by many in the region; for a relatively small population, security sources say a disproportionate number of men from the city filled the ranks of IS as commanders, judges and members of their vicious religious police

The strategy of jihadis looks like to kill 'other minorities' loot and kidnap slaves before running back unless allowed to rule. See the map too. Just to point out overall strategy put in place; there will be again claims of terrorism has no religion but it is always non believers who suffer for sure. When isil horde attacked many of defence simply took away weapons from target ed villages and ran away after taking bribes.
Last edited by vishvak on 06 Jan 2020 09:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ricky_v » 06 Jan 2020 09:45

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/01/05/donald-trump-threatens-iraq-sanctions-expel-us-troops/2821255001/
President Donald Trump threatened to impose deep sanctions on Iraq if it moves to expel U.S. troops and said Sunday he would not withdraw entirely unless the military is compensated for the "extraordinarily expensive air base" there.

Trump's remarks came on the same day that Iraq's Parliament voted to support expelling the U.S. military from its country over mounting anger about a drone strike the president ordered last week that killed Iran's Qasem Soleimani and earlier U.S. airstrikes in the country. The vote was nonbinding.

"We've spent a lot of money in Iraq," Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One as he returned to Washington after spending the holidays at his Florida resort, Mar-a-Lago. "We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that’s there. It cost billions of dollars to build. ... We’re not leaving unless they pay us back for it."

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Vikas » 06 Jan 2020 10:18

What are the odds that Kurds may finally get their homeland in ME in all this chaos. Would be a great strategy to cut down Iraq and Iran and bit of Syria to size although Turkey can be a joker in this pack.
DT may find a new friend, ally and willing partner in them.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Yagnasri » 06 Jan 2020 10:51

He said cultural sites. GoK what he mean by that.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby abhik » 06 Jan 2020 10:53

How does the US supply it's troops in Syria and Iraq? They might get another taste of paki style supply convoy looting/burning. Turkey being another pain in the bu!! would not be helping matters either.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Santosh » 06 Jan 2020 11:54

habal wrote:Gen Wesley Clarke mentioned in an old interview

7 countries and the last one is Iran.

what is the significance of these 7 countries ?
once the democratic, relatively anti-wahabbi regimes are toppled, then field becomes clear to spread fundamentalist wahabbi Islam to destabilize caucusus, russia & china. Esp russia.

Wouldn't this be classified information that he is not supposed to leak?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby tandav » 06 Jan 2020 11:58

I want to know whether
1) General Qassem Soleimani was on a official and public visit to Iraq using his diplomatic passport?
2) General Qassem Soleimani was on a personal visit to Iraq using his nondiplomatic/personal passport?
3) General Qassem Soleimani was on a secret military visit to Iraq without using a passport with the knowledge of Iraqi authorities?
4) General Qassem Soleimani was on a secret military visit to Iraq without using a passport without the knowledge of Iraqi authorities?


If he was assassinated by drones while on otensibly visiting on case 1 & 2, isn't it by definition illegal and a war crime. This is akin to killing say the CDS of India while he is officially visiting say KSA/UAE to review defense treaties by Pakistani State Actors citing something in Kashmir. How would this be acceptable... the cost of personal security of US defense staff across the world has increased tremendously.

In case 3&4 the strike is potentially defensible but it is my understanding that US forces in bases around the world do not submit to country specific entry and exit procedures (do not use passports)... de jure US military bases are points of entry and exit for US forces and any US personnel can also be targeted by any 3rd party using the Soleimani assassination as justification anywhere in the world.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Vikas » 06 Jan 2020 13:17

^^ Tandav Ji, Does not US bombing countries via drones or missiles fall in the same bracket ?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Lisa » 06 Jan 2020 14:09

tandav wrote:I want to know whether
1) General Qassem Soleimani was on a official and public visit to Iraq using his diplomatic passport?
2) General Qassem Soleimani was on a personal visit to Iraq using his nondiplomatic/personal passport?
3) General Qassem Soleimani was on a secret military visit to Iraq without using a passport with the knowledge of Iraqi authorities?
4) General Qassem Soleimani was on a secret military visit to Iraq without using a passport without the knowledge of Iraqi authorities?


If he was assassinated by drones while on otensibly visiting on case 1 & 2, isn't it by definition illegal and a war crime. This is akin to killing say the CDS of India while he is officially visiting say KSA/UAE to review defense treaties by Pakistani State Actors citing something in Kashmir. How would this be acceptable... the cost of personal security of US defense staff across the world has increased tremendously.

In case 3&4 the strike is potentially defensible but it is my understanding that US forces in bases around the world do not submit to country specific entry and exit procedures (do not use passports)... de jure US military bases are points of entry and exit for US forces and any US personnel can also be targeted by any 3rd party using the Soleimani assassination as justification anywhere in the world.


IMHO, accredited Israeli diplomats died/got injured in New Delhi at the hands of Iranian terrorists sent by General Qassem Soleimani. Such rules had been abrogated by the Iranians. He had declared open season on HIMSELF a long time ago.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby vinod » 06 Jan 2020 16:23

Lisa wrote:
tandav wrote:I want to know whether
1) General Qassem Soleimani was on a official and public visit to Iraq using his diplomatic passport?
2) General Qassem Soleimani was on a personal visit to Iraq using his nondiplomatic/personal passport?
3) General Qassem Soleimani was on a secret military visit to Iraq without using a passport with the knowledge of Iraqi authorities?
4) General Qassem Soleimani was on a secret military visit to Iraq without using a passport without the knowledge of Iraqi authorities?


If he was assassinated by drones while on otensibly visiting on case 1 & 2, isn't it by definition illegal and a war crime. This is akin to killing say the CDS of India while he is officially visiting say KSA/UAE to review defense treaties by Pakistani State Actors citing something in Kashmir. How would this be acceptable... the cost of personal security of US defense staff across the world has increased tremendously.

In case 3&4 the strike is potentially defensible but it is my understanding that US forces in bases around the world do not submit to country specific entry and exit procedures (do not use passports)... de jure US military bases are points of entry and exit for US forces and any US personnel can also be targeted by any 3rd party using the Soleimani assassination as justification anywhere in the world.


IMHO, accredited Israeli diplomats died/got injured in New Delhi at the hands of Iranian terrorists sent by General Qassem Soleimani. Such rules had been abrogated by the Iranians. He had declared open season on HIMSELF a long time ago.


This is incorrect!

IRG was responsible israeli diplomat attacks. Open season etc is very bad justification.

Even if he was involved, US can do better than kill someone who is having diplomatic immunity in a foreign country. NOW, it is open season against any diplomats, US or otherwise, by any nation.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby tandav » 06 Jan 2020 16:40

Still not clear which of the 4 cases did Gen Soleimani fall into... given the actionable intelligence information advantage that the US has over most peer countries except China and potentially Russia, my greatest worry is the lowering of the bar for state actor assassinations of persons of importance... Israel does it, Iran does it, North Korea does it... and it is a given due to the near Pariah status of all these nations and potentially the only tool that such nations have to ensure their security. However when the US does it... what is there to prevent say China from declaring open season on our military officials? Is there a balance of power that prevent escalation? Recent the CDS of Taiwan was killed in an aircrash... what if this was a planned assassination?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby chanakyaa » 06 Jan 2020 18:59

Tandav-ji, this has been going on for over 100 years. Allegedly, Br!tsh!t linked group killed arch-duke Ferdinand in 1914 leading to Austro-Hungarian empire declaring a war which lead to WW1. Italy's Enrico Mattei established a separate oil company from seven sisters and industrial advancement in Italy. Magically he dies in a plane crash in 1960s just like the sudden death of Ivar Krueger, a Swedish financier, who offered loans to Rus in difficult times in 1950s, I believe. All these are allegedly of course :D I'm sure there more examples. All these people had plans that were not inline with Br!tsh!t/Bahadur designs. Only diff is that this time it is out all in open, thus new low level as you pointed out. But, without great deal of self-sufficiency including semiconductor and software, and the ability to sanction others, you can't do sh!yt (except kadi ninda).

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby mody » 06 Jan 2020 19:05

Driving up the price of Oil also works for USA now, unlike in the past. Now they are net exporters and all shale oil producers will make more money and higher prices will drive further investments into shale oil in the US and higher production in the years to come.
Venezuela is exporting much less then its capacity. Iran has been out of the formal oil market for the past few months. Trump just warned Iraq with imposing sanctions on them, if they really force the US to remove its forces from Iraq.
Leaves the field open for USA, Russia and Saudi to rule the oil market around the world. India, China, Japan etc. all would have to fall in line.

Rising oil prices now work in favour of USA than against it, as it did in the past. Khan can take bolder, riskier steps without worrying about 1970's style oil embargo.
The recent sanctions on Nordstream 2 pipeline from Russia to Germany and Turkey sending forces to Libya, possibly to scuttle the proposed gas pipeline from the Eastern Mediterranean to Europe are new trends that show the coming fights for energy taking place around Europe. It is also upending old alliances and shaping up new ones. The eastern med pipeline is promoted by Greece, Israel, Cyprus and Egypt, while being opposed by Turey. The sanctions on Nordstream-2 is putting Germany and the US squarely in opposing camps.
In Libya we now have Turkey and Qatar on one side, with Egypt and UAE on the other. Russia is leaning towards to the later countries, with France hedging its bets. In fact France is now leaning towards the LNA, backed by Egypt and UAE, much to the annoyance of Italy, who is favouring the GNA instead.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Rsatchi » 06 Jan 2020 19:09

mmasand wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:https://youtu.be/4GeGlGgeYBY
Listen carefully from 24.29 onwards!!
Musharaff Zaidi claiming Pakistanis fighting in Iraq
is that true?


In reference to Gulf War 1, there were a number of Pak Army regulars in non-offensive roles inside Kuwait. Several thousands stayed back in KSA as an insurance till the mid-90's against Iranian aggression post the Iran-Iraq war.

Off topic but Pakistani overtly supported Iran by supplying stingers, and other ammunition against Iraq in that war.

If you listen it is not Gulf War he is taking about.
This is specifically in response to suleimani killings and he says people from Pak and Afghan recruited to fight? Yaniki Shias recruited from these two countries

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Arun.prabhu » 06 Jan 2020 19:32

Our armed forces? Our PM who is no shrinking violet himself?

If China really did off two or more of our leaders, it'd be just before a shooting war starts. If they hit one, we hit his opposite number or go after their infrastructure projects in Pakistan and a few other not so friendly countries.

But these aren't the questions you should be asking. The ones you should be asking are: why are Pakistani ISI staff, terrorist leaders and Dawood Ibrahim able to freely walk about in daylight after so many attacks on our soil? I have hopes for Modi that he'll rectify these failings in the coming decade. :)

tandav wrote:Still not clear which of the 4 cases did Gen Soleimani fall into... given the actionable intelligence information advantage that the US has over most peer countries except China and potentially Russia, my greatest worry is the lowering of the bar for state actor assassinations of persons of importance... Israel does it, Iran does it, North Korea does it... and it is a given due to the near Pariah status of all these nations and potentially the only tool that such nations have to ensure their security. However when the US does it... what is there to prevent say China from declaring open season on our military officials? Is there a balance of power that prevent escalation? Recent the CDS of Taiwan was killed in an aircrash... what if this was a planned assassination?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Lisa » 06 Jan 2020 19:54

Rsatchi wrote:https://youtu.be/4GeGlGgeYBY
Listen carefully from 24.29 onwards!!
Musharaff Zaidi claiming Pakistanis fighting in Iraq
is that true?


My friend worked as a 'contractor'. He personally vouched for more than one run in against pukis in Basra.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Rsatchi » 06 Jan 2020 20:00

Lisa wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:https://youtu.be/4GeGlGgeYBY
Listen carefully from 24.29 onwards!!
Musharaff Zaidi claiming Pakistanis fighting in Iraq
is that true?


My friend worked as a 'contractor'. He personally vouched for more than one run in against pukis in Basra.

Recent conflict??
And working for Isis or Shia militia :!:

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Vikas » 06 Jan 2020 20:06

tandav wrote:Still not clear which of the 4 cases did Gen Soleimani fall into... given the actionable intelligence information advantage that the US has over most peer countries except China and potentially Russia, my greatest worry is the lowering of the bar for state actor assassinations of persons of importance... Israel does it, Iran does it, North Korea does it... and it is a given due to the near Pariah status of all these nations and potentially the only tool that such nations have to ensure their security. However when the US does it... what is there to prevent say China from declaring open season on our military officials? Is there a balance of power that prevent escalation? Recent the CDS of Taiwan was killed in an aircrash... what if this was a planned assassination?


Assassination by natural cause or act of God have always been around.

Nothing prevents any countryfrom declaring open season on any other state player except for fear of retribution and ladder of escalation. Most of the nations aren't crazy enough to start shooting at each others influential actors but if someone decides to go crazy, They run the risk of targeted killings in return and would result in Mafia turf war kinda situation.
We believe China or Pakhis would not start targeting our senior military officials openly just like they expect India too not to go that route.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Vikas » 06 Jan 2020 20:07

Lisa wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:https://youtu.be/4GeGlGgeYBY
Listen carefully from 24.29 onwards!!
Musharaff Zaidi claiming Pakistanis fighting in Iraq
is that true?


My friend worked as a 'contractor'. He personally vouched for more than one run in against pukis in Basra.


Probably cleaning toilets or being a comfort boy for Jehadis. :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Jan 2020 20:09

Santosh wrote:
habal wrote:Gen Wesley Clarke mentioned in an old interview
7 countries and the last one is Iran.

what is the significance of these 7 countries ?
once the democratic, relatively anti-wahabbi regimes are toppled, then field becomes clear to spread fundamentalist wahabbi Islam to destabilize caucusus, russia & china. Esp russia.

Wouldn't this be classified information that he is not supposed to leak?


Good pooch. Maybe 17 year limit is over and stuff gets deClassified. Or maybe it is plain disinformation and SeeAyyeh are :rotfl: reading about us reading about it. Though I cannot imagine the purpose of making such a claim.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Lisa » 06 Jan 2020 20:11

Rsatchi wrote:
Lisa wrote:
My friend worked as a 'contractor'. He personally vouched for more than one run in against pukis in Basra.

Recent conflict??
And working for Isis or Shia militia :!:


He was protecting 'assets' of a UK company. He said that a large number of the insurgents that they had engaged were pukis. Information volunteered to me when I asked him where most of the insurgents originated from. Was expecting him to say Iran but..... This information was related to me in a conversation roughly 2-3 years ago. Basra was then, according to him, on the whole was stable but he was still instructed to lock and load in the airport itself before moving on. He served there for almost 10 years. Exceptionally good money. £12,000 pm untaxed but job did involve killing now and then!

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Vikas » 06 Jan 2020 20:14

^ Maybe rise of DT is part of the same campaign to reconstruct ME :)

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby abhik » 06 Jan 2020 20:58

UlanBatori wrote:
Santosh wrote:Wouldn't this be classified information that he is not supposed to leak?


Good pooch. Maybe 17 year limit is over and stuff gets deClassified. Or maybe it is plain disinformation and SeeAyyeh are :rotfl: reading about us reading about it. Though I cannot imagine the purpose of making such a claim.

If i remember correctly, the good general ran for POTUS (democratic primaries) in 2004.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby anmol » 06 Jan 2020 23:25

Opinion | Trump Kills Iran’s Most Overrated Warrior

Suleimani pushed his country to build an empire, but drove it into the ground instead.

By Thomas L. Friedman
Opinion Columnist

Jan. 3, 2020

One day they may name a street after President Trump in Tehran. Why? Because Trump just ordered the assassination of possibly the dumbest man in Iran and the most overrated strategist in the Middle East: Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani.

Think of the miscalculations this guy made. In 2015, the United States and the major European powers agreed to lift virtually all their sanctions on Iran, many dating back to 1979, in return for Iran halting its nuclear weapons program for a mere 15 years, but still maintaining the right to have a peaceful nuclear program. It was a great deal for Iran. Its economy grew by over 12 percent the next year. And what did Suleimani do with that windfall?

He and Iran’s supreme leader launched an aggressive regional imperial project that made Iran and its proxies the de facto controlling power in Beirut, Damascus, Baghdad and Sana. This freaked out U.S. allies in the Sunni Arab world and Israel — and they pressed the Trump administration to respond. Trump himself was eager to tear up any treaty forged by President Obama, so he exited the nuclear deal and imposed oil sanctions on Iran that have now shrunk the Iranian economy by almost 10 percent and sent unemployment over 16 percent.

All that for the pleasure of saying that Tehran can call the shots in Beirut, Damascus, Baghdad and Sana. What exactly was second prize?

With the Tehran regime severely deprived of funds, the ayatollahs had to raise gasoline prices at home, triggering massive domestic protests. That required a harsh crackdown by Iran’s clerics against their own people that left thousands jailed and killed, further weakening the legitimacy of the regime.

Then Mr. “Military Genius” Suleimani decided that, having propped up the regime of President Bashar al-Assad in Syria, and helping to kill 500,000 Syrians in the process, he would overreach again and try to put direct pressure on Israel. He would do this by trying to transfer precision-guided rockets from Iran to Iranian proxy forces in Lebanon and Syria.

Alas, Suleimani discovered that fighting Israel — specifically, its combined air force, special forces, intelligence and cyber — is not like fighting the Nusra front or the Islamic State. The Israelis hit back hard, sending a whole bunch of Iranians home from Syria in caskets and hammering their proxies as far away as Western Iraq.

Indeed, Israeli intelligence had so penetrated Suleimani’s Quds Force and its proxies that Suleimani would land a plane with precision munitions in Syria at 5 p.m., and the Israeli air force would blow it up by 5:30 p.m. Suleimani’s men were like fish in a barrel. If Iran had a free press and a real parliament, he would have been fired for colossal mismanagement.

But it gets better, or actually worse, for Suleimani. Many of his obituaries say that he led the fight against the Islamic State in Iraq, in tacit alliance with America. Well, that’s true. But what they omit is that Suleimani’s, and Iran’s, overreaching in Iraq helped to produce the Islamic State in the first place.

It was Suleimani and his Quds Force pals who pushed Iraq’s Shiite prime minister, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, to push Sunnis out of the Iraqi government and army, stop paying salaries to Sunni soldiers, kill and arrest large numbers of peaceful Sunni protesters and generally turn Iraq into a Shiite-dominated sectarian state. The Islamic State was the counterreaction.

Finally, it was Suleimani’s project of making Iran the imperial power in the Middle East that turned Iran into the most hated power in the Middle East for many of the young, rising pro-democracy forces — both Sunnis and Shiites — in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq.

As the Iranian-American scholar Ray Takeyh pointed out in a wise essay in Politico, in recent years “Soleimani began expanding Iran’s imperial frontiers. For the first time in its history, Iran became a true regional power, stretching its influence from the banks of the Mediterranean to the Persian Gulf. Soleimani understood that Persians would not be willing to die in distant battlefields for the sake of Arabs, so he focused on recruiting Arabs and Afghans as an auxiliary force. He often boasted that he could create a militia in little time and deploy it against Iran’s various enemies.”

It was precisely those Suleimani proxies — Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria, the Popular Mobilization Forces in Iraq, and the Houthis in Yemen — that created pro-Iranian Shiite states-within-states in all of these countries. And it was precisely these states-within-states that helped to prevent any of these countries from cohering, fostered massive corruption and kept these countries from developing infrastructure — schools, roads, electricity.

And therefore it was Suleimani and his proxies — his “kingmakers” in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq — who increasingly came to be seen, and hated, as imperial powers in the region, even more so than Trump’s America. This triggered popular, authentic, bottom-up democracy movements in Lebanon and Iraq that involved Sunnis and Shiites locking arms together to demand noncorrupt, nonsectarian democratic governance.

On Nov. 27, Iraqi Shiites — yes, Iraqi Shiites — burned down the Iranian consulate in Najaf, Iraq, removing the Iranian flag from the building and putting an Iraqi flag in its place. That was after Iraqi Shiites, in September 2018, set the Iranian consulate in Basra ablaze, shouting condemnations of Iran’s interference in Iraqi politics.

The whole “protest” against the United States Embassy compound in Baghdad last week was almost certainly a Suleimani-staged operation to make it look as if Iraqis wanted America out when in fact it was the other way around. The protesters were paid pro-Iranian militiamen. No one in Baghdad was fooled by this.

In a way, it’s what got Suleimani killed. He so wanted to cover his failures in Iraq he decided to start provoking the Americans there by shelling their forces, hoping they would overreact, kill Iraqis and turn them against the United States. Trump, rather than taking the bait, killed Suleimani instead.

I have no idea whether this was wise or what will be the long-term implications. But here are two things I do know about the Middle East.

First, often in the Middle East the opposite of “bad” is not “good.” The opposite of bad often turns out to be “disorder.” Just because you take out a really bad actor like Suleimani doesn’t mean a good actor, or a good change in policy, comes in his wake. Suleimani is part of a system called the Islamic Revolution in Iran. That revolution has managed to use oil money and violence to stay in power since 1979 — and that is Iran’s tragedy, a tragedy that the death of one Iranian general will not change.

Today’s Iran is the heir to a great civilization and the home of an enormously talented people and significant culture. Wherever Iranians go in the world today, they thrive as scientists, doctors, artists, writers and filmmakers — except in the Islamic Republic of Iran, whose most famous exports are suicide bombing, cyberterrorism and proxy militia leaders. The very fact that Suleimani was probably the most famous Iranian in the region speaks to the utter emptiness of this regime, and how it has wasted the lives of two generations of Iranians by looking for dignity in all the wrong places and in all the wrong ways.

The other thing I know is that in the Middle East all important politics happens the morning after the morning after.

Yes, in the coming days there will be noisy protests in Iran, the burning of American flags and much crying for the “martyr.” The morning after the morning after? There will be a thousand quiet conversations inside Iran that won’t get reported. They will be about the travesty that is their own government and how it has squandered so much of Iran’s wealth and talent on an imperial project that has made Iran hated in the Middle East.

And yes, the morning after, America’s Sunni Arab allies will quietly celebrate Suleimani’s death, but we must never forget that it is the dysfunction of many of the Sunni Arab regimes — their lack of freedom, modern education and women’s empowerment — that made them so weak that Iran was able to take them over from the inside with its proxies.

I write these lines while flying over New Zealand, where the smoke from forest fires 2,500 miles away over eastern Australia can be seen and felt. Mother Nature doesn’t know Suleimani’s name, but everyone in the Arab world is going to know her name. Because the Middle East, particularly Iran, is becoming an environmental disaster area — running out of water, with rising desertification and overpopulation. If governments there don’t stop fighting and come together to build resilience against climate change — rather than celebrating self-promoting military frauds who conquer failed states and make them fail even more — they’re all doomed.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Lisa » 06 Jan 2020 23:42

vinod wrote:
Lisa wrote:
IMHO, accredited Israeli diplomats died/got injured in New Delhi at the hands of Iranian terrorists sent by General Qassem Soleimani. Such rules had been abrogated by the Iranians. He had declared open season on HIMSELF a long time ago.


This is incorrect!

IRG was responsible israeli diplomat attacks. Open season etc is very bad justification.

Even if he was involved, US can do better than kill someone who is having diplomatic immunity in a foreign country. NOW, it is open season against any diplomats, US or otherwise, by any nation.


Sir,

Very far from incorrect, it's actually very correct. Your explanation sounds a bit like saying 'non state actors' did this not us. All these Iranians are in the same boat together and feel that they should be immune from punishment because the 'dossier' was inclusive. This attitude has persisted in every one of their attacks which are as everyone knows, far too many to list.

Open season is a bad idea when the Americans are doing it but very much the order of the day when the Iranians are. Sorry, no can do. Swift punishment should be the order of the day. I would like to see an Iranian reaction so that they can be shown an example of what unlimited American military power can inflict upon them so that they can truly understand the meaning of word Superpower and how regional and localised their capability is.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby hnair » 06 Jan 2020 23:52

Tom Friedman must have recently shifted job from Marketing Manager of Infosys to PR Manager of Aramco. Guy snorts up latest IPO fumes like nobody’s business

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Prem Kumar » 06 Jan 2020 23:57

When it comes to foreign policy, when asked to bend, the U.S media will crawl.
When it comes to killing brown, non-Christian people, the Left & the Right in the U.S will join hands and sing carols.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 06 Jan 2020 23:57

UlanBatori wrote:Ayatollahs are playing right into Deep State's hands. Announced withdrawal from nuclear accord, and otherwise pissing upwards. Who wins if US forces are "officially" asked to leave Iraq? Is Putin going to provide air cover against the ISIS in Iraq as well as Syria?

The ancient Persian knack of self-goals. All this tamasha is to distract them from finishing the job in Syria and Iraq. Now those are receding dreams. Quds Force cannot survive a B-52 campaign - same fate as Iraqi Imperial Guard in 1991. Shi*tes!!


Initially ISIS took over a third of Iraq.
It was Iranian backed forces that fought them.
So expect more of them.
Then there are the Kurds who will be effected.
Again Iranian forces will fight them to prevent declaring a state.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 06 Jan 2020 23:59

Prem Kumar wrote:When it comes to foreign policy, when asked to bend, the U.S media will crawl.
When it comes to killing brown, non-Christian people, the Left & the Right in the U.S will join hands and sing carols.


What great insight in in this nukkad level post?

I am disappointed that in four days of discussion not one member posted any analysis from Indian interests point of view.

Sad.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 07 Jan 2020 00:02

NRao wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:Has anyone explained what General Suleimani was doing in Baghdad anyway? Why is a foreign General moving in armed convoys in the capital city at the same time as the US Embassy is being ransacked by armed mobs? Coincidence?

For all the boohoo from Iraq about "foreign intervention" blah blah blah, it seems that it is only against western forces. They seem quite at home hosting fellow neighboring islamic military forces and their leaders.


In addition to what John posted, there was a report, just after the assassination, that he was there to better organize the Iranian factions within Iraq to better oppose those fighting in the streets against Iran.

______________

There is the "civilian government" that pretends to be a part of the normal international community. And then there is a parallel, well funded, entity that lives solely to drive their ideology, is beholden to none, but is protected by the civilians (they have no options).

Soleimani was the head of this entity that drove their ideology across four nations: Iran + Iraq + Syria + Lebanon. In addition he has led the efforts in Yemen too. He is not a "foreign general" in any of these geographical areas. It is the other way around: they exist because of the entity he led. Soleimani was the one stop shop: ideology, politics, finance, military, etc.

I see his assassination as a chance to rid the region of this two headed hydra. A very tall order and not by design, granted. But here is the chance to rid the area of "Iranian factions" or at least degrade them substantially.

On tossing out the US, I just do not think will matter. What the US did "officially" now will get done, much like Israel, under the covers.


I also wonder if the tossing out of the US forces lead, some time way into the future (few years), to the recognition of a Kurdistan.


So what role or impact did Soleimani have if any in relations with India?
Please do some research and then post.
Anyone?
With out this we cant really discuss from Indian POV.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Jan 2020 00:50

Friedman is an overt lo-life foreign agent. Of Israel. The oiseule has been "advising' GOTUS to go bomb Iran for many years now. Too many blatant lies in that article, to count. Will wait with popcorn to see someone like The Independent pan him. Again.

Suleimani was a loyal soldier. Living in borrowed time since he was sent into the Iran-Iraq War. If DT hadn't gloated, I would have assumed that the blast in Baghdad was just another day's work. Like the Syrian General Zahreddine who held out at Deir ez Zor for over 3 years and then died in a mine blast days after the city was finally liberated. .
I don't believe that he had any special attitude towards or against India. The stuff about the attack on an "Israeli Diplomat" in Dilli was all just the usual game, nothing at all to be seen there against India. Note that India did not prosecute: one desi journo who worked for an Iranian outfit, was arrested and given bail. In 2013. End of investigation. What do you read into that? GOI did not want to pursue, despite close ties with Israel. Chances are that the said diplo was Mossad and may have been on the "most Wanted" list. Remember Mossad stunts like killing several top ppl in a hotel in Dubai?

OTOH, Pakis claim to hate him because of Balochistan jollies, so I assume that he was a friend of India. And Pakis are again GUBOing for the new preparations by the Great Satan against the gentle Ummah. Which is why a few vacuum implosions in Balochistan may be on the cards.

Suleimani is revered in Iraq because he was personally there at the frontlines in the toughest battles where the ISIS was defeated. Liberation of Kirkuk I believe, maybe Mosul as well. Known for standing around with no "flak jacket" or helmet.

I think the murder was out of sheer spite because of the victories that the Qud forces have racked up.

Deep State has yanked DT's policies over the precipice. I don't know how he is going to recover. I think the impeachment stuff, and then the backstab from the Billy Graham EJ rag, may have cornered him. It seems certain that there are very Deep State agints in the top WHOTUS adviser gang/ NSC. Bad news for America.

(ramanaji, time to sit with popcorn and do some reading of u no what..) As u say, we've seen it all, but may have started to forget.

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West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Peregrine » 07 Jan 2020 01:22

Pakistan won't take sides in Iran-US ‘confrontation’
ISLAMABAD: Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi on Monday said Pakistan would not be dragged into the escalating confrontation between neighbouring Iran and the United States, following the killing of Iranian military commander Qassem Soleimani in a US drone strike last week.
Cheers Image

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 07 Jan 2020 02:33

Why Iran's Qassem Soleimani was on a not-so-secret trip to Iraq when he was assassinated

Qassem Soleimani had recently arrived at Baghdad's airport early on Friday when a Hellfire missile blew up his convoy, killing him and nine others, courtesy of US President Donald Trump.

Why was the Iranian major general in Iraq, a country that Iran had fought in a bitter war three decades earlier?

Soleimani was on a not-so-secret trip to Iraq to meet with politicians and military allies. And we now know that it likely had a secret component: to coordinate an intensifying campaign of rocket strikes to maim and kill some of the 5,000 American troops based there.

Soleimani was Iran's most powerful military figure, a leader of commandos and spies across several countries tasked with achieving the aims of Iran's supreme leader through whatever means necessary. His operatives fought adversaries like ISIS, trained insurgents like the Houthis in Yemen, and provided support to terrorist groups like Hezbollah. In 2007, the US declared the Quds Force that Soleimani led a state sponsor of terrorism.

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In Iraq, Soleimani had recently taken on a larger political role. He met with Iraqi political figures to secure support for the country's embattled prime minister, Adel Abdul Mahdi; the widespread protests that started in October were in part a reaction to Soleimani's presence.

Mahdi said he planned to meet Soleimani later on the day he was killed by the US MQ-9 Reaper drone. Mahdi called it a "political assassination" and said Soleimani's trip was intended to de-escalate tensions with Saudi Arabia.

It's also likely that the trip had a more lethal purpose. In mid-October, Soleimani secretly met with Shiite militia leaders to coordinate attacks against the US in hopes of triggering a US reprisal that would refocus public anger from Iran to the US, Reuters reported on Friday. Soleimani delegated this campaign to Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, a head of Iraq's Popular Mobilization Forces and the commander of the Kataib Hezbollah militia.

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On December 27, Kataib Hezbollah rocket strikes killed one US contractor and wounded several troops, prompting US airstrikes against the militia group, which reacted by storming the US Embassy in Baghdad on New Year's Eve. The Trump administration was forced to rapidly deploy US Marines to defend the compound.

Muhandis was killed in the same strike that killed Soleimani.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Jan 2020 02:51

I wonder if the intended target - or the one informed to Trump for approval, was Muhandis - legiimate reprisal if the rocket attack on the US base did indeed come from the Kataib Hezbollah. The Deep State made sure to choose an instant when Suleimani was with Muhandis. Once it happened they decided to brazen it out. Let me put it this way: Suleimani was overdue for retirement. If he were a Senior yak-herder in Mongolia he would have been put out to pasture. So this hit is a net negative for US interests - unless the Ayatollahs react without careful cold-blooded cunning. If they lash out the will lose it all. OTOH if they just be quiet, Idlib will be free in a couple of weeks, and Turkey, with their feet caught in the Libyan quicksands, will be eager to get out of Syia. The White Helmets Chemical Attack scam is getting exposed - and the Democrats in the US are caught in a situation where they are screaming to de-escalate rather than to bomb Syria.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 07 Jan 2020 02:58

TOP IRANIAN PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER SAYS TEHRAN'S 'SOLE PROBLEM IS TRUMP,' NOT AVERAGE AMERICAN PEOPLE

A top adviser to Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, who has long accused the U.S. government of wanting war, said Sunday that Iran has "zero problems" with average Americans, adding that Iran takes issue with President Donald Trump only.

Hesameddin Ashena, an Iranian politician and upper-echelon member of Rouhani's Moderation and Development Party, made the distinction and has ridiculed the Trump administration's "maximum pressure strategy" for months, frequently mocking the political minutiae and problems emanating from the Trump White House. The top Iranian adviser echoed Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's rhetoric, who has previously said "Death to America" chants are directed at U.S. government leaders and not the American people.

.......................

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Jan 2020 03:01

^NewsWeek BS. "Top Adviser" indeed. NewsWeek has some explaining to do about their reporter quitting after his article on the Douma chemical attack scam was suppressed. No one has ever got anywhere with this "we have nothing against the US PEOPLE only their GOVERNMENT" cra*. In matters of invading other countries, the US People and Govt are really united.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 07 Jan 2020 03:14, edited 1 time in total.


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