Maldives Civil-Military Issues

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chetak
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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby chetak » 10 Feb 2018 11:57

pankajs wrote:Going by that logic we have already lost to China closer to home i.e. in Bakistan. The most recent example of that was India's *helplessness* wrt CPEC and that too in a territory that India claims as its own.

You see the ASEAN countries had no business looking to India even before this latest Maldives crisis. I even wonder what the so called QUad expects from such a wuss India.

Truth hurts but truth is the truth and need to be spoken.


The quad as well as asean expect Indian body bags as opposed to their own body bags.

That is what each and everyone of them expect, India will lead, Indians will die and the rest will enjoy the grand party.

Come one and all, after India tangles with the hans on their behalf.

None of them, including the amrekis have the balls to go it alone.

Modi is far smarter that that.

These are the very guys who looked down upon him after gujarat, unofficially sanctioned him personally.

These guys now think that by merely turning up they are entitled to prosperity, riding on Modi's shoulders.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Philip » 10 Feb 2018 11:59

Pankaj, Pak was lost to India a very long time ago.Beginning at independence and sealed after '62.The Chinese dictum of Chairman Mao, " my enemy's enemy is my friend" ,saw them fornicate with each other in an eternal carnal relationship with malice towards India.Their insatiable lust for each other is mat he'd with equivalent hatred for India.Pakistan has also been the catamite of the US.Every which way it has sold itself to wage war against India.The Chinese were happy as the Pakis kept doublecrossing the US while taking its greenbacks.This allowed them to boost Pak's nuclear and military might and further get Pak into an unbreakable military relationship with it dashing any chance of a peace with India which a Paki political party might wish.Inveigling
Nepal and the Maldives into its "orbit",as a later springboard, is fully evident now as more of the Chin master plan is revealed.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby abhijitm » 10 Feb 2018 12:26

chetak wrote:The quad as well as asean expect Indian body bags as opposed to their own body bags.

That is what each and everyone of them expect, India will lead, Indians will die and the rest will enjoy the grand party.

Come one and all, after India tangles with the hans on their behalf.

None of them, including the amrekis have the balls to go it alone.

Modi is far smarter that that.

These are the very guys who looked down upon him after gujarat, unofficially sanctioned him personally.

These guys now think that by merely turning up they are entitled to prosperity, riding on Modi's shoulders.

ASEAN is one of the angles but the most important point is a nook being tightened around our neck and we need to react.

To the point that Modi is much smarter.. yes he is as long as Indian elections are concerned. He is using every foreign nation to get more votes here. It is no coincidence he invited ASEAN on republic day when NE elections are just around the corner and had meetings with them with BJP NE CMs.

And since we are assuming smartness... lets assume ASEAN leaders are smart enough to realize Modi just used them for his election campaign and he has no interest to project as India being a balance provider in ASEAN region.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Philip » 10 Feb 2018 13:24

Brig.Mahalingam on India Today TV right now commenting upon the on-going Jammu attack.Reports of a Paki naval task force heading towards the Maldives.Any further I do.?

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby SSridhar » 10 Feb 2018 13:24

India has to do what is in its best national interests, irrespective of political affiliations. So, what do we think? Allowing China to gobble up a strategic outpost in IOR (which will open up other similar island-nations for Chinese control) or fight over other irrelevant things? One of the intents of MSR is to grab these island nations in IOR.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 10 Feb 2018 13:27

Ahh ... this is getting interesting finally. The current Maldevian dispensation had requested Chinese protection that much was known. Baki task force getting to Maldives is good .. very very good indeed! Wonder when Sri Lanka will send its task force.

But I am afraid folks are going to be disappointed again.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby SSridhar » 10 Feb 2018 13:31

If the story about Pakistani Naval Task Force is true, then China has sub-contracted the task to Pakistan.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 10 Feb 2018 13:32

I don't buy that Bakis will send a task force to Maldives [That is what I meant that folks will again be disappointed] but will wait for conformation. As the Americans says never say never and stranger things have happened before.

My feeling at this point is that someone wants India to show its hands first by spreading such bytes but one can never discount any possibility no matter how absurd.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby abhijitm » 10 Feb 2018 13:38

If paki ships have left for Maldives then we will be having news in mainstream media. These things you cannot hide.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 10 Feb 2018 13:39

Also a *Task force* means what actually?

Suppose the bakis send one ship loaded with water, another loaded with food and yet another loaded with fuel will such a flotilla be considered a *task force*? All merchant ships of course.

Now suppose India allows such a flotilla to reach Maldives will it be considered a capitulation by India infont of a show of force by Bakistan?

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 10 Feb 2018 13:52

Also in these days of social media and fake news one has to be very careful with *news*.

Remember how Maldives had *Snubbed* India by ignoring it while sending its emissaries to China, Bakistan and Saudi Arabia? Almost all *reputed* Indian media houses ran that story forcing the Maldevian embassy to correct that perception.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 10 Feb 2018 14:01

From bakistani press
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1631044/1- ... nvoy-told/
Pakistan not to support emergency, Maldives envoy told
An official source in knowledge of the matter said PM Abbasi conveyed to the visiting foreign minister that Pakistan had no intention to side with Maldives president after he took a highly controversial step to impose emergency.

“Our government is vocal about condemning the proclamation of emergency by former dictator General (retd) Pervez Musharraf in 2007 in Pakistan (mainly to tighten noose around the Supreme Court judges).

“How can we support the proclamation of emergency in Maldives where the Supreme Court is also bearing the brunt?” a close aide of the prime minister commented, requesting anonymity.

The source said the visiting minister has invited the premier to visit Maldives but Abbasi ‘politely regretted’ the invitation saying it was not suitable to visit the country in the present circumstances since such a step would be tantamount to supporting the emergency rule.

According to the PM Office, the prime minister stated during the meeting that Pakistan firmly adhered to the policy of non-interference in the affairs of other countries and would continue to adhere to the principles of the UN charter in this regard.

If Bakistan were a normal country the above would be sufficient to summarize that no *task force* would be embarking on a journey to Maldives anytime soon. But we live in exceptional times and Bakistan is an exceptional country ...

I would still bet good money that folks are going to be disappointing wrt a Baki *task force* going to Maldives.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 10 Feb 2018 14:20

Let me hazard a *guess* based on what has happened, what has been reported and GOI's radio silence.

I think Indian Navy is out and around Maldives with some strength while still maintaining some distance to give a look of normalcy in the region. It is in a position to quickly insert itself into the situation and clean up the mess before anyone can even attempt to seize the initiative e.g. China.

This is know/has been made know to the Americans, the Chinese, the bakis and the Mladevians. This quite confidence accounts for GOIs radio silence on the matter. It also accounts for the Maldevian request for protection from China. It also accounts for China's reluctance to spring to the aid of the current Maldevian regime and their insistence of non-interference in the internal matters of the country by outside powers. This confidence also seems to be the reason for GOI rebuffing the Maldevian regime's request for a meeting.

Imagine if there was a dash for the Maldives between India and China is such a situation. My bet would be on Indian beating China hands down and a loss of face for China and its leadership. No wonder China's paeans to *International law*.

The above scenario, to my limited understanding, accounts for all that has transpired till date. I may be wrong of course.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 10 Feb 2018 14:28

Now let me add a further chanikyan.

If India is able to resolve this in its favor with some military action its currency in the global market will rise no doubt. BUT IF India is able to resolve this in its favor without military action it currency in the global market will rise much more.

This is a test of nerves that is playing out in Maldives and I hope India comes out on top without having to resort to military action.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pushkar.bhat » 10 Feb 2018 15:18

No action next two days we have our weekly off only. Indian phoren serbis.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby symontk » 10 Feb 2018 18:43

SSridhar wrote:If the story about Pakistani Naval Task Force is true, then China has sub-contracted the task to Pakistan.


It is for Chinese to identify secret Indian forces inside Maldives territory (they have thousands of islands). I wont be surprised if Chinese subs arent lurking nearby

The modus operandi is to scare with Pakistani navy and thus Indian comms reveal secret locations

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Gagan » 10 Feb 2018 20:01

Military action will be bloody and very messy
Keyboard warriors here are on a overdrive with little information, and planning grandiose invasions

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Bart S » 10 Feb 2018 20:23

Gagan wrote:Military action will be bloody and very messy
Keyboard warriors here are on a overdrive with little information, and planning grandiose invasions


It's the price of liberty and nation building. No great power in history has every become one solely by diplomacy and exchange of dossiers. :D

But hopefully it will be bloody and messy for our opponents mainly.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Philip » 10 Feb 2018 20:35

We need local Intel to identify where the head of the snake is to cut it off.Once that happens, the rest will fall into place like an over ripe fruit.Knowing what the Maldivians are like, scared that the US will detonate an N-bomb and that they will all be submerged! One of the most depressing nationals I've met.No wonder so many have gone to Syria and Iraq to earn their 72!

There will be no bloody intervention.A swift efficient change of the top ridership is sufficient.The despot is a hated figure.
Last edited by Philip on 11 Feb 2018 03:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby SiddharthS » 10 Feb 2018 21:00

There is a flawed notion that's been floating around, which says, whatever the leader does is right, as oppose to coming to the understanding of what is 'right' and then beholding the leader to that standard. And What is 'right' depends on what are your national interests.

Much of the uncertainty stems from the fact that no one - after Nehru - has been able to articulate a vision for India, and subsequent policies to buttress that vision. Neither external vision(to spell out the vision to the world and act accordingly) nor internal vision(act accordingly and achieve the results but don't spell it out to the world) has been articulated, giving rise to the confusion and hesitation.

So every time a crisis - like Sri Lanka or Maldives - occurs we're astonished, we're uncertain of our role. Debate ensues, few sermons are sprinkled in ,but ultimately we go back to the drawing board to carve out our role and do nothing.

If we articulated Indian Vision properly and policies to buttress that vision, much of the uncertainty would go away. If we stated that Indian Ocean is India's Ocean then suddenly what's happening in the Maldives seems to be antithetical to Indian interest. To realize that vision we would need military bases in Mozambique, Agalega, Seychelles, Oman, and Maldives; except Maldives, all these countries have already offered us the bases. We'd also have to keep China away from Indian Ocean, keep it busy in SCS, and for that we'd have to prop up Asean states especially Vietnam, which is ever so ready to fight china, And they have already offered us a base in Nha Trang.

Everything comes down to whether India has a vision, and policies to guide towards that vision to become a respected power in the region and the near abroad.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pushkar.bhat » 10 Feb 2018 21:34

Philip wrote:We need local Intel to identify where the head of the snake is to cut it off.Once that happens, the rest will fall into place like an over ripe fruit.Knowing what the Maldivians are like, scared that the US will detonate an B-8bomb and that they will all be submerged! One of the most depressing nationals I've met.No wonder so many have gone to Syria and Iraq to earn their 72!

There will be no bloody intervention.A swift efficient change of the top ridership is sufficient.The despot is a hated figure.


Sir Phillips a regime change will be relatively easy. Other then a couple of Poor guys who will get hit by us in the opening hours of the operations I doubt there will be too many casualties. Having said that its important that we answer the following questions before we land boots in the country.

1. Who will replace Yameen? Mohamed Nasheed may will not be the best choice if we have to conduct free and fair elections.
2. Who all in the island are party with Chinese and who are just playing along? Removal of both wahabi and chinese elements will be critical to long term sustenance of democracy in the country?
3. Through what means will we ensure long term strategic interests in the country? We need to do this without compromising the sovereignty of the country?
4. What will be the sequence of events for the ultimate restoration of a democratic regime in the country that reflects the aspirations of the people?
5. What changes need to happen to institutions to ensure that they never slide back into the Chinese cesspool?
6. What will happen of the current regime? Specially President Yameen, Attorney General Anil and Head of Maldives Defense Forces Maj Gen Ahmed Shiyam?
7. What is the exact exit strategy we have in place from this operation?

I guess we are good once we have answers to the above questions.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby anupmisra » 10 Feb 2018 22:25

While there is no further update from that Maldivian MP, Mohamed Musthafa, who first tweeted this "Pakistani Navy vessels are due to arrive in Maldives" a couple of days ago, and lets not assume that it is happening, one outcome is certain that if Maldives goes the chini way, India would have lost a dominant position in the Indian Ocean, its naval patrols will be exposed, and the US bases in Diego Garcia and the Gulf would severely be compromised. It is in Indian and American interest to keep China out of this region.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Gagan » 10 Feb 2018 22:26

What I see in terms of people's opinion on this dhaga is directions to the Government on how to run policy

Look at the level of advise being dispensed.
1. Have intel on the ground
2. Invade the country, throw the sitting president - duly elected by his people into jail and bring the opposition (Duly defeated in an election, and whose pro-India antecedents are a bit suspect) into power

Hain ji! People out here seem to have enough guts to sink a battleship before lunch, or what?
Or have people here want the Indian military to do in Maldives, what the Pak Fauj does inside pakistan hain ji?
Aren't posters here asking for an Indian assisted Military Coup on a sitting government ? What is the average age of the posters here, 15?

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Gagan » 10 Feb 2018 22:26

Paki rust buckets should be fair game no?
What if they get stuck on a sand bank during low tide?

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby abhijitm » 10 Feb 2018 22:28

pushkar.bhat wrote:
Philip wrote:We need local Intel to identify where the head of the snake is to cut it off.Once that happens, the rest will fall into place like an over ripe fruit.Knowing what the Maldivians are like, scared that the US will detonate an B-8bomb and that they will all be submerged! One of the most depressing nationals I've met.No wonder so many have gone to Syria and Iraq to earn their 72!

There will be no bloody intervention.A swift efficient change of the top ridership is sufficient.The despot is a hated figure.


Sir Phillips a regime change will be relatively easy. Other then a couple of Poor guys who will get hit by us in the opening hours of the operations I doubt there will be too many casualties. Having said that its important that we answer the following questions before we land boots in the country.

1. Who will replace Yameen? Mohamed Nasheed may will not be the best choice if we have to conduct free and fair elections.
2. Who all in the island are party with Chinese and who are just playing along? Removal of both wahabi and chinese elements will be critical to long term sustenance of democracy in the country?
3. Through what means will we ensure long term strategic interests in the country? We need to do this without compromising the sovereignty of the country?
4. What will be the sequence of events for the ultimate restoration of a democratic regime in the country that reflects the aspirations of the people?
5. What changes need to happen to institutions to ensure that they never slide back into the Chinese cesspool?
6. What will happen of the current regime? Specially President Yameen, Attorney General Anil and Head of Maldives Defense Forces Maj Gen Ahmed Shiyam?
7. What is the exact exit strategy we have in place from this operation?

I guess we are good once we have answers to the above questions.

only 7 questions? I am sure if you gather few more to brainstorm to find reasons you can come up with many many more.

Forgive my sarcasm. But you seem to be fixed on not acting and then finding justifications. :)

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Gagan » 10 Feb 2018 22:41

Going forward, the larger question that needs to be answered is this.
Does a neighbour of India have a right to invite China into their country for business and infrastructure?
The Chinese want that business but also want to use that country to establish a military base for surveillance, spying and worse on india.

The larger issue is what should India's response be? Does the GoI have a response?
Do other nations around the world have a set response for this?

What are US / Russia / China / France / Germany etc doing, when faced with such a situation?

This template of China is being replicated in all of India's neighbourhood. Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Bangaldesh, Maldives.

WRT Doklam, that Plateau is Bhutanese territory. One wonders what arrangement the Government of Bhutan had with the Chinese, such that the Chinese now have a well laid out infrastructure on that plateau. Is anyone here privy to the agreement or understanding that went on between India, Bhutan and/or China on Doklam? The emissaries of these nations must have talked to each other no?

I am asking people to not jump to conclusions and type something out as a kneejerk reaction, blasting the government of the day, who IMHO is the best GoI one has had in several decades.


Again, I point out that there is a very critical difference between the ground situation during operation Cactus, and now. That difference is not being appreciated by people here. This will be made a political issue in India - one can bet that the Congress I will say - Rajiv Gandhi intervened and 56" did not. Are posters here posting stuff to prepare ground for such an effort back home hain ji?

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby chanakyaa » 10 Feb 2018 22:51

pushkar.bhat wrote:...
1. Who will replace Yameen? Mohamed Nasheed may will not be the best choice if we have to conduct free and fair elections.
2. Who all in the island are party with Chinese and who are just playing along? Removal of both wahabi and chinese elements will be critical to long term sustenance of democracy in the country?
3. Through what means will we ensure long term strategic interests in the country? We need to do this without compromising the sovereignty of the country?
4. What will be the sequence of events for the ultimate restoration of a democratic regime in the country that reflects the aspirations of the people?
5. What changes need to happen to institutions to ensure that they never slide back into the Chinese cesspool?
6. What will happen of the current regime? Specially President Yameen, Attorney General Anil and Head of Maldives Defense Forces Maj Gen Ahmed Shiyam?
7. What is the exact exit strategy we have in place from this operation?

I guess we are good once we have answers to the above questions.

Pushkarji, your questions are valid and answers to similar questions are prepared before doing anything (diplomacy/mili). Please allow me to show the other side of the coin.

Do you think Chinese, when entered Maldives, had answers to similar questions?
Do you think the Chinese interested in the strategic interests of the country?
When the Chinese bribed the local government for their purposes, do you think they had kindness in their heart for the local population and institutions?
When Yameen jailed elected MPs do you think he was worried about fair and free democracy?
Do you think Americans had answers to similar questions when they entered Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Vietnam etc. etc.?
When various groups in the ME are supplied weapons, do you think providers of such weapons have answers to similar questions?
Millions of innocent people have died in Syria, do you think countries have answers to similar questions when they fly their fancy aircrafts?
Do you think France has answers to similar questions to similar questions for their occupancy of Algeria, Libya, and other African countries?
Do you think those who authorized operation in Libya had answers to long term strategic interest of the country in their heart?
Do you think Russia should have waited to answers to similar questions before entering Crimea?
When Sunni cabal supplied weapons to various groups in Syria, do you think they thought about the future of all innocent children in Syrian schools?

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pushkar.bhat » 10 Feb 2018 23:10

@chanakyaa and @abhijitm I am in complete agreement with you. In fact I am personally perplexed on why we have taken so long to tighten the screws on Yameen. Please don't construe my questions as a reason not to act.

I believe that we were so successful in Bangladesh war (1971) because we were very clear in our intent and the armed forces had a clear mandate. The Indian armed forces have always looked to the civilian government for a clear statement of intent and objective. We need to have that clearly defined. Sri lanka ops were a failure because our peace keepers were suddenly asked to jump into active combat. Give the boys a clear objective and we can be sure that they will succeed.

I am sure the questions that I have listed are among the many that must have been brainstormed before we rush into Maldives. Some of them are critical since they will present themselves within hours of our landing into the Island Atolls. Other we will have a few weeks to ponder upon and seek answers to.

Remember Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria are classical examples of rushing in without a exit plan. Crimea was successful because Russia had annexation of the peninsula as a clearly defined objective. Russia had the entire game plan perfected before it launch a Hybrid war with little green men against Ukraine. We see the Syrian campaign by Russia as a similarly well thought out exercise. I am not overtly concerned about breaking a few eggs. I just want to be sure that the eggs are not ours and that we are executing to effect.

Hope that clarifies my post and stance.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby sudarshan » 10 Feb 2018 23:28

Valid questions, and any sane government should ponder these, and define long-term objectives. That the Americans, Chinese, French, etc. don't do this, means that their governments are insane by definition. Their policies are short-sighted.

However, many of these questions should have been pondered years ago, not at crisis time. The reason forumites behave like "15 year olds" (Gagan's term) is that they have a serious lack of trust in any Indian govt. The Modi govt. is definitely different, and his strategy is to keep his cards close to his chest, unlike the loud-mouthed strategies of the Americans or Chinese. In fact, nothing is so unnerving to the Chinese psyche, as an opponent who doesn't blink, who doesn't bluff and bluster, doesn't do the "karate thing," (where they yell loud and aggressively to intimidate the opponent while threateningly waving their arms and legs), but who is nevertheless confident, watching out for a weak point to attack. Modi actually did this to perfection in Doklam.

If Indian warships indeed have the Maldives within sights, and if arms are being twisted behind the scenes, that is enough to make Yameen nervous - an overwhelming power like India, which is currently maintaining distance, but which can't be trusted not to close in at a moment's notice. Kind of like the wolf circling its nervous prey, waiting for a stumble or a sneeze - and then the attack will be swift and devastating.

I still trust Modi and Doval to act when needed. It's just the trust deficit with previous govt.s (especially Congress under Sonia Gandhi, fronted by MMS), and the fact that the stakes here are so high. That said, I can't fault Modi's handling of Doklam either.

A reasonably good strategy, in the absence of outright military intervention, would be to keep Yameen guessing and nervous. Provoke him into making some irretrievable mistake. Folks would argue that he's already made that irretrievable mistake - maybe so. Or maybe folks underestimate India's tentacles in the Maldives. I'll wait and see, and maybe learn a lesson or two from Modi's strategies.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Rudradev » 10 Feb 2018 23:50

Singha wrote:this thread is like the MRCA thread. we will still be sitting here after 3 years it seems.

very disappointed in our MEA, NSA and PMO. :-?

Actually it is like the Uri Attack thread.

After the attack: "nothing is happening, we need to hit back, Modi and Doval won't do anything, they are kandle kissers like MMS" :(( :(( :((

Then the Surgical Strike took place and for a BRIEF, very BRIEF period we had a celebratory thread and default rona-dhona was switched off.

Too brief though apparently. Goalposts were moved again to justify a return to ro-dho default during Doklam (because we didn'f make a grab for Lhasa) and yet again, now with the Maldives.

No wonder Modi & Amit Shah have completely ignored the "Jingovaadi Hindu Nationalistic middle class" in their electioneering strategy. Even on BRF we repeatedly demonstrate how fickle, unreliable, eternally dissatisfied, childishly impatient, and hopelessly entitled we are. We are the Lehman Brothers of vote banks and every party knows it.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Trikaal » 11 Feb 2018 00:04

pankajs wrote:Going by that logic we have already lost to China closer to home i.e. in Bakistan. The most recent example of that was India's *helplessness* wrt CPEC and that too in a territory that India claims as its own.

You see the ASEAN countries had no business looking to India even before this latest Maldives crisis. I even wonder what the so called QUad expects from such a wuss India.

Truth hurts but truth is the truth and need to be spoken.

I agree with you but failure on CPEC front is still excusable. It goes through lands occupied by a country traditionally our biggest rival. Getting your enemy to toe your line is admittedly hard so CPEC wasn't viewed as a direct face-off between india and china. This however is very embarrassing. The ground zero this time is a pseudo-indian colony which until very recently even did the diplomatic equivalent of breathing only after taking India's permission. Losing face and control here would be a diplomatic failure of epic proportion. We have already lost nepal. Another loss cannot be afforded.

Trikaal
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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Trikaal » 11 Feb 2018 00:08

Rudradev wrote:
Singha wrote:this thread is like the MRCA thread. we will still be sitting here after 3 years it seems.

very disappointed in our MEA, NSA and PMO. :-?

Actually it is like the Uri Attack thread.

After the attack: "nothing is happening, we need to hit back, Modi and Doval won't do anything, they are kandle kissers like MMS" :(( :(( :((

Then the Surgical Strike took place and for a BRIEF, very BRIEF period we had a celebratory thread and default rona-dhona was switched off.

Too brief though apparently. Goalposts were moved again to justify a return to ro-dho default during Doklam (because we didn'f make a grab for Lhasa) and yet again, now with the Maldives.

No wonder Modi & Amit Shah have completely ignored the "Jingovaadi Hindu Nationalistic middle class" in their electioneering strategy. Even on BRF we repeatedly demonstrate how fickle, unreliable, eternally dissatisfied, childishly impatient, and hopelessly entitled we are. We are the Lehman Brothers of vote banks and every party knows it.


Comparing the two situations is wrong and unfair since this situation is completely different. In Uri attack scenario, india could afford to lay low, pick our battlefield and then hit at the time of our choosing. Here we do not have the same luxury. This battle is both military and diplomatic. Saying that we will respond later is not an option. Right now india has a very valid cassus beli, something that might not exist tomorrow, or the damage to maldivians might be too severe by then. The clock here is ticking.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Bart S » 11 Feb 2018 01:40

Gagan wrote:I am asking people to not jump to conclusions and type something out as a kneejerk reaction, blasting the government of the day, who IMHO is the best GoI one has had in several decades.


Again, I point out that there is a very critical difference between the ground situation during operation Cactus, and now. That difference is not being appreciated by people here. This will be made a political issue in India - one can bet that the Congress I will say - Rajiv Gandhi intervened and 56" did not. Are posters here posting stuff to prepare ground for such an effort back home hain ji?



Rudradev wrote:No wonder Modi & Amit Shah have completely ignored the "Jingovaadi Hindu Nationalistic middle class" in their electioneering strategy. Even on BRF we repeatedly demonstrate how fickle, unreliable, eternally dissatisfied, childishly impatient, and hopelessly entitled we are. We are the Lehman Brothers of vote banks and every party knows it.


You guys seem overly concerned about the wellness of the BJP, to the extent of putting down people who are looking at national interests. No party is above the nation, they are just servants who are duty-bound to take national interests forward. Most posters who are upset already have a soft corner for the party in question, but are perfectly justified and correct in looking at national interests first and demanding that the GOI follow them, rather than looking out for the party in power and trying to make pseudo-chanakiyan excuses to protect the image of said party.
Last edited by Bart S on 11 Feb 2018 01:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Pulikeshi » 11 Feb 2018 01:44

Rudradev wrote:No wonder Modi & Amit Shah have completely ignored the "Jingovaadi Hindu Nationalistic middle class" in their electioneering strategy. Even on BRF we repeatedly demonstrate how fickle, unreliable, eternally dissatisfied, childishly impatient, and hopelessly entitled we are. We are the Lehman Brothers of vote banks and every party knows it.


Lolz - There is an old saying in a forgot Indian language:
The wrestler won the bout against a giant, but swaggered on of the ring only to slip on wet mud!

India has secured berthing rights in several South China Sea ports, established a security pact with ASEAN and the QUAD, and is now making deals with GCC countries to get oil at better than international prices. There is even security pact with ME countries. Chinese bases are either economically unviable or have near US or India military presence. The Goldilocks zone for India is for US and China to be just enough uncomfortable with each other.

All this swine of pearls, India feeling choked in IOR, etc. are media manthan nonsense. The real question is has the Indian Lakshman Reka shifted due to increased capabilities and security alliances? If so, does it mean unlike before will India tolerate more in the IOR/Indo-Pacific or less. My two naya paise!
For the particularly dense let me point this out - if my neighbors go into debt to a large bully bank, who do you think they are going to come begging for protection when they default? :twisted:

China is offering wet mud for India to slip on... just as India offered the same at Doklam to China :mrgreen:

The Jingovaadi Disssatisfied - need to realize that Indian Navy is already there, and if needed can act. The situation today is not only a changed capabilities that China presents, but also the changed capabilities and context India finds itself in - I’d say my assessment is India is comfortable!
All the arm chair warriors please to find different popcorn match, till it is time for Maldives onlee! :mrgreen:
Perhaps a psychotherapy thread is needed for all the jingovaadi dissatisfied :P
Last edited by Pulikeshi on 11 Feb 2018 01:48, edited 1 time in total.

Bart S
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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Bart S » 11 Feb 2018 01:46

Pulikeshi wrote:The Jingovaadi Disssatisfied - need to realize that Indian Navy is already there, and if needed can act.



Can you cite any evidence or sources for this? As far as we know so far it is just conjecture.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Pulikeshi » 11 Feb 2018 01:49

^^^ onlee chaiwallas pakoda making brother’s sixth wife removed whispered in my ear as I sat eating paan on a sunny beach in Seychelles :mrgreen:

KL Dubey
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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby KL Dubey » 11 Feb 2018 01:59

Pulikeshi wrote:^^^ onlee chaiwallas pakoda making brother’s sixth wife removed whispered in my ear as I sat eating paan on a sunny beach in Seychelles :mrgreen:


On a related topic, as I understand our Seychelles base on Assumption island is pretty well along in terms of infrastructure.

As for the two Mauritian islands (Agalega), I don't think any construction has started (?)

Bart S
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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Bart S » 11 Feb 2018 02:02

Pulikeshi wrote:^^^ onlee chaiwallas pakoda making brother’s sixth wife removed whispered in my ear as I sat eating paan on a sunny beach in Seychelles :mrgreen:


Exactly my point.

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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby nam » 11 Feb 2018 02:07

Can some one provide more details on why the current president is so anti-India? What did we do to him? Is it because we openly supported the ex-President?

kit
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Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby kit » 11 Feb 2018 02:41

one thinks an Indian expeditionary force is ready to sail under UN auspices !


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