Maldives Civil-Military Issues

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23128
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby SSridhar » 07 Jul 2018 07:27

Maldives jabs India again, signs power deal with Pakistan - ToI
Now locked in a bitter political stand-off with India, Maldives continues to pose fresh security challenges for India almost on a monthly basis. After the helicopter and work permit snub, Male has now signed a capacity-building agreement in the power sector with Pakistan.

Officials of the Maldives state electricity company, Stelco, visited Pakistan last week and signed an MoU for cooperation in "institution-building" activities. The timing of the MoU is significant for India as it comes when Male has stopped issuing work permits to Indians delaying work on projects being handled by India like the construction of a police academy.

Indian officials here are struggling to figure out what Male wants from Pakistan when Stelco's all major projects are already being handled by Chinese companies.

"Given its precarious financial situation, Pakistan cannot do much to help Maldives. But President Yameen is trying his best to reduce Indian footprint and bring in elements hostile to India to undermine Indian influence in Maldives," said an Indian official.

One reason why Maldives has dragged its feet on India's proposal for deploying a Dornier surveillance aircraft on its territory is said to be its consideration of an offer of a similar aircraft from Pakistan.

While Male has again reminded India that the deadline for removing its naval choppers has expired, it has remained evasive on accepting India's Dornier aircraft offered in 2016. "The talk about Dornier seems to have all along been a deceptive tactic of Male meant to soften its decision to get rid of Indian helicopters. Yameen actually doesn't want any Indian footprint in Maldives," said an official here.

Indian officials said Male probably doesn't realise that acquiring an aircraft is not enough as operation of such assets require considerable technical manpower and support infrastructure. "Who will pay for the deployment of the maintenance staff and aircraft servicing? Maldives until now has got everything on a platter from India," said a source.

Indian authorities believe that the presence of Pakistani officials will see development of covert intelligence modules which will target India. The fear is that this might complicate the security situation in Maldives which is struggling to check radicalisation. {It may be struggling to check a particular form of radicalization but not every radicalization. They may also believe in exporting such radicals as they get closer to Pakistan. We know that ISI already uses 'Project Colombo' to target South India, especially Tamilnadu and now they may want 'Project Male' also. They have had Nepal under their belt for a long time. They might have made a snake oil sales pitch to Abdulla Yameen that the IS brand of radicals returning from Syria could be converted in order to minimize risk for his government and re-exported to India under its control. Of course, this is all my speculation. But, I feel that Abdulla Yameen is personally so anti-India, for whatever reason, that he is blinded by the 'appeal of a tiny island nation harassing the mighty India'. Pakistan and Maldives are so firmly under the Chinese thumb that it won't be surprising if 'Project Male' has its tacit approval even as it piously espouses counterterrorism measures as part of SCO.}

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10443
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 07 Jul 2018 09:39

There was another article yesterday where Yameen was described as rabidly anti-Indian from his days as a junior minister in past government. This was in relation to his anti-India rhetoric in the upcoming elections.

One reason GOI has been careful till date wrt Maldives is just to avoid making India the central argument in the upcoming elections. The same kind of rhetoric was used by Oli in Nepal.

BTW, One things our neighbors including Bakistan, Nepal and now Maldives have learned successfully is how to press the Indian media buttons. As a example this line could have been avoided or made more neutral while still reporting the facts if the case. "Maldives continues to pose fresh security challenges for India almost on a monthly basis".
Last edited by pankajs on 07 Jul 2018 09:44, edited 1 time in total.

JohnTitor
BRFite
Posts: 1344
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby JohnTitor » 07 Jul 2018 09:42

I don't see why we are entertaining this nonsense.

We should start making life harder for them, including telling them that when they start sinking, they should contact their Pakistani and Chinese brethren for help and not come with begging bowls in hand to India.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10443
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 07 Jul 2018 09:46

How will reminding them of "ocean rising and its implications for Maldives" make life harder in the present?

And if we want a democratic process any aggressive posturing by India would only make Yameen election campaign easier.

The other option is to go in and drag him out of there and put in someone else in charge. But that person, if he has any sense, will turn on India just like in Nepal else be open to the charge of being an Indian stooge in the next elections.

The last option is to takeover Maldives and appoint a viceroy. How about that?

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10443
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 07 Jul 2018 10:00

There was this article I read yesterday about the 3 blunders India committed in Nepal.

1. Helping overthrow the Monarchy. [Manmohan Singh] {For all it power play wrt India, monarchy doesn't seem so bad NOW when looked from the current situation}
2. Help bring the Maoist in power. [Manhohan Singh] {Imagine India helping bring an Islamist or a closet Islamist in power in Male who goes rogue worse than Yameen. That is always the risk and "democracy" and competitive politics does bring out the worst faster.}
3. Nepal blockade. [Narendra Modi] {For many folks who are disappointed that India is not "acting" like a soup pawa with the punny Maldives need to study the Nepal debacle}

Even in Nepal, a Hindu country, India was made into a punching bag and Oli won on his harsh anti-India rhetoric. One needs to learn the lessons. The only way of "ensuring Indian writ in Maldives" is the viceroy option else leave it alone and watch it self-destruct. The only people who can save Maldives are Maldivians with some covert help from the world including India and that means that we stay zip and not make any overt aggressive moves without a clear infringement on the Indian domain.

One need not agree with the author but it was certainly worth a read. I will try and locate the article and post it here.

sanjayc
BRFite
Posts: 269
Joined: 22 Aug 2016 21:40

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby sanjayc » 07 Jul 2018 10:39

pankajs wrote:There was this article I read yesterday about the 3 blunders India committed in Nepal.

1. Helping overthrow the Monarchy. [Manmohan Singh] {For all it power play wrt India, monarchy doesn't seem so bad NOW when looked from the current situation}
2. Help bring the Maoist in power. [Manhohan Singh] {Imagine India helping bring an Islamist or a closet Islamist in power in Male who goes rogue worse than Yameen. That is always the risk and "democracy" and competitive politics does bring out the worst faster.}
3. Nepal blockade. [Narendra Modi] {For many folks who are disappointed that India is not "acting" like a soup pawa with the punny Maldives need to study the Nepal debacle}

Even in Nepal, a Hindu country, India was made into a punching bag and Oli won on his harsh anti-India rhetoric. One needs to learn the lessons. The only way of "ensuring Indian writ in Maldives" is the viceroy option else leave it alone and watch it self-destruct. The only people who can save Maldives are Maldivians with some covert help from the world including India and that means that we stay zip and not make any overt aggressive moves without a clear infringement on the Indian domain.

One need not agree with the author but it was certainly worth a read. I will try and locate the article and post it here.


Strangely, India seems to the only country in the world for which any retaliatory moves against any other country are declared impractical and the best strategy recommended is to "grin and bear it." Why is it necessary for us to promote democracy in Maldives or even Nepal? Why not install friendly dictators who are loyal to us? Also, reciprocity is the name of the game in international relations. If Maldives is making it harder for Indians to get visas, how about India doing the same for Maldives citizens who come to India in droves for medical treatment? How about restricting supply of fruits and vegetables to that country and deny its airlines overflight rights over Indian territory? Without fear there is no respect.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10443
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 07 Jul 2018 10:50

On your first line ...I could list the mightiest of countries that "grin and bear it". Lets start ... How about America or Russia or China?

BTW, if one is inclined to read my whole post one would note the following.

1. I have never said that we must put not reciprocal restrictions on Maldives.
2. I have stated that Viceroy model is the best if "India wants its writ"
3. Short of Viceroy arrangement we MUST "grin and bear it"
4. Or, may be indulge in covert action in coordination with the other powers

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17710
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby chetak » 07 Jul 2018 11:15

JohnTitor wrote:I don't see why we are entertaining this nonsense.

We should start making life harder for them, including telling them that when they start sinking, they should contact their Pakistani and Chinese brethren for help and not come with begging bowls in hand to India.


We are Hindus, saar.

When they start to sink, we will be the first to reach their innundated shores, begging them to accept our hospitality, our eternal vasudeva kutumbakam policy and all that schitt.

we are incorrigible onlee.

dinesha
BRFite
Posts: 1059
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 11:42
Location: Delhi

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby dinesha » 07 Jul 2018 13:11

India emerging as a favourite punching bag for Maldives President
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 887694.cms
Besides stifling the Opposition, Yameen has decided to adopt an anti-India strategy as a poll plank in the backdrop of his loosening grip on Maldivian politics.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10443
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 07 Jul 2018 13:22

^
Yes that was the article that was referring to in my earlier post.

pankajs wrote:There was another article yesterday where Yameen was described as rabidly anti-Indian from his days as a junior minister in past government. This was in relation to his anti-India rhetoric in the upcoming elections.

One reason GOI has been careful till date wrt Maldives is just to avoid making India the central argument in the upcoming elections. The same kind of rhetoric was used by Oli in Nepal.

BTW, One things our neighbors including Bakistan, Nepal and now Maldives have learned successfully is how to press the Indian media buttons. As a example this line could have been avoided or made more neutral while still reporting the facts if the case. "Maldives continues to pose fresh security challenges for India almost on a monthly basis".
Last edited by pankajs on 07 Jul 2018 13:25, edited 1 time in total.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17710
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby chetak » 07 Jul 2018 13:25

dinesha wrote:India emerging as a favourite punching bag for Maldives President
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 887694.cms
Besides stifling the Opposition, Yameen has decided to adopt an anti-India strategy as a poll plank in the backdrop of his loosening grip on Maldivian politics.


anti India rhetoric and how he stood up to a big, bad, Hindu India and her hegemonistic tendencies will also form his main election plank. Religon is the last resort of a scoundrel as the pakis have successfully proved time and again.

By our clumsy moves, led by our great MEA, we have blundered into a quagmire and stirred a hornet's nest.

One would have thought that diplomacy is all about smooth, silent and successful negotiations.

They seem intent on pushing the MoD into fronting the maldives fiasco.

JohnTitor
BRFite
Posts: 1344
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby JohnTitor » 08 Jul 2018 05:40

Whether you like it or not, India is a topic of discussion in Maldives. A couple of my friends work there as doctors.

Might as well retaliate than look like victims, quietly allowing them to show us our place every step of the way. As Sanjay said, India and Indians seem to be the only country where we have to bear it.. same “Chaltha hai” attitude and “adjusting nature “ Indians display so proudly in everyday life.

At a national level, nothing is personal and everything is fair. Don’t like the US sanctions? Don’t agree with the invasion of the Middle East? Well tough, it’s all fair as far as real politic is concerned. Pussyfooting has got us nowhere and Pakistan is proof of it. It is also the reason NAM (bandits pet project) is a joke. Strength respects strength, there’s no such thing as morals at a national level.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19640
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Philip » 08 Jul 2018 10:14

Writing off the Maldives to the Chins and Pakis just becos some of them are in the atolls as "workers", when both China and Pak are thousands of kms away is an abject expression of acute defeatism.There is a limit to insults and overt and covert anti- Indian chicanery from the current despot.The time is long past to have intervened and removed the " rotting fish" of the regime whose stench is polluting the IOR.Dust off the files of Op.Cactus dear PM.The window of opportunity may close rapidly with greater Chin involvement and establishment of Chin mil. bases which can sprout up in a jiffy as they have in the ICS.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10443
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby pankajs » 08 Jul 2018 10:37

Yea .. "Insult" should be guiding principle of our foreign policy.

pankajs wrote:There was this article I read yesterday about the 3 blunders India committed in Nepal.
<snip>
One need not agree with the author but it was certainly worth a read. I will try and locate the article and post it here.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis ... aoQNI.html
India’s mistakes have allowed China to make inroads into Nepal - Brahma Chellaney

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19640
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Philip » 08 Jul 2018 14:05

Tx. for the BC article.There is a definite disconnect or failure in our MEA establishment in understanding the limitations of diplomacy not backed by mil. muscle.The Nehruvian model of the force of moral strength post- Independence worked in some measure with newly independent former colonies and thanks to our leadership in NAM, until '62 exposed its weak foundation- not backed by military force.This was then, replaced by the real-politik of Mrs.G, which won us a famous victory, carried on pro-actively by Rajiv, but afterwards replaced by a " pseudo- Nehruvian" model which was rotten to the core , reflecting the corruptness of the regime of Snake-oil Singh.

Prachanda, was he not a JNU product? I remember some years ago discussing the same with one who had strong JNU academic connections. JNU , a hotbed of revolt against the system.The destruction of the Hindu Nepalese monarchy as BC says was an unmitigated disaster, allowing the Commies , and the Chinese to take over and turn Nepal into a frontline inimical neighbour of India. This underscores the acute ignorance of the fundamental security dimension to India that should
govern our regional diplomacy.We ignored it at our peril in Nepal, Sri Lanka, the Maldives and are reaping the consequences.

We now have a rabid Islamic fundoo anti- Indian preacher being felicitated by the Malaysian PM.What a snub! One would've instead of futilely asking for his extradition preferred a dose of Mossad medicine!

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17710
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby chetak » 08 Jul 2018 20:09

JohnTitor wrote:Whether you like it or not, India is a topic of discussion in Maldives. A couple of my friends work there as doctors.

Might as well retaliate than look like victims, quietly allowing them to show us our place every step of the way. As Sanjay said, India and Indians seem to be the only country where we have to bear it.. same “Chaltha hai” attitude and “adjusting nature “ Indians display so proudly in everyday life.

At a national level, nothing is personal and everything is fair. Don’t like the US sanctions? Don’t agree with the invasion of the Middle East? Well tough, it’s all fair as far as real politic is concerned. Pussyfooting has got us nowhere and Pakistan is proof of it. It is also the reason NAM (bandits pet project) is a joke. Strength respects strength, there’s no such thing as morals at a national level.


There are a great number of maldivians working in India and many as doctors and as other professionals. Even in a place like bangalore, kerala they are present in great numbers plus a very considerable "floating" population of maldivians here for "medical" treatment and surprise, surprise, many "maldivians under medical treatment" have their children working here.

It goes without saying that aadhar and pan cards are possessed by many of these people.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4662
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Neshant » 09 Jul 2018 01:47

I'd be careful about directing any ire towards Maldivians (who generally love India) as opposed to one guy Yameen who does not.

The whole reason he is a dictator is because he could not get democratically elected.

The upcoming elections will be rigged.

What is important however is once he is dethroned from power (as always occurs with every dictator), the Supreme Court judges who collaborated in perpetuating his dictatorship be imprisoned and/or hung. That act alone makes it 100X more difficult for any future coup to succeed against an elected govt.

In Pakistan, some honorable judges chose to step down rather than declare their aliegance to Musharaff's coup when told to do so or quit. One even said "he could not sit on the bench and lie" when he chose not to continue. The judges that stayed on kept their job but exposed themselves as being corrupt frauds. Ironically they dreaded the return of any elected govt who might charge them with dereliction of duty as Supreme Court judges - who are supposed to be the legal guardians of the nation.

JohnTitor
BRFite
Posts: 1344
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby JohnTitor » 09 Jul 2018 14:42

Philip, NAM was always a failure. The reason it felt like it worked was because it made bandit and his clan feel good trying to preach morals to superpowers.

At the end of the day, it was the same as a bunch of losers complaining about how the bullies took their lunch money. The saying misery loves company is quite apt.

When both the superpowers knew they could blow all of NAM out of the planet there is no question of treating you as equals.

In geopolitics, as in real life, strength respects strength. Even on the roads, when something happens the one who shouts loudest usually manages to scare off the other, even if he was technically in the wrong.

I'm not saying we should invade Maldives or anything like that, just that the wait and watch won't yield any results. We should do what we need to do to secure our interests just as the big boys do.

nam
BRFite
Posts: 1571
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby nam » 09 Jul 2018 15:31

Issue a travel warning, saying Indian citizens could be targeted by political workers given the current turmoil in the island.

"India loves Maldives, however the safety of our citizens is of prime importance" yada yada.

Once Indian tourist dry up.... ask the opposition to raise the issue of job losses to the local economy because of the president personal enmity with India.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19640
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Philip » 09 Jul 2018 20:28

Point about our workers fleeing at the threat from a bunch of fishermen.What has India told the Maldivian regime? Has any stern warning been given? But some postulate that Chinese worketrs if affected could lead to a Chinese mil. response! Defeatism supreme.

tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2522
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby tsarkar » 09 Jul 2018 20:57

Abdullah Yameen is a scoundrel and the popular support is with Mohamed Nasheed. Anyone visiting other Islands in the archipelago will find immense support for Nasheed there. Yameen has also Islamicized the country similar to Zia ul Haq to deflect his dictatorial taste for power. Many radicalized islanders have joined ISIS in ME.

Most Maldivian have economic ties with India directly (fishing, tourism) and like economic growth through India

We need to take military action to ensure free & fair elections happen and aspirations of the people are met. MEA needs to build support with US, Russia and European States before Yameen builds up Pakistani and Chinese strength in the Island.

Militarily, a parachute battalion + supporting units (~1000) can be dropped in an hour and an amphibious brigade (~ 6000) can be deployed in less than 24 hours.

China and Pakistan are too far to intervene and can be blocked by Western & Eastern fleet Destroyers and Submarines.

We need to deploy the military option before Pakistani and Chinese "workers" build up in sufficient numbers. If Pakistan or China get a foothold in Maldives, we lose our strategic depth in South India.

A complete revamp of Indian Foreign Service / Ministry of External Affairs is required. Other than a few handful, most of them are useless careerists not able to guide the government.

Its not about Maldives, its about strategic depth in South India that is unaffected by issues affecting Northern Borders and is the industrial, economic and agricultural depth of India.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19640
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Philip » 10 Jul 2018 07:43

Well put! We lost India 500 years ago to the intruding western seapowers of Portugal, the Dutch and the English. Are we to risk our hard fought independence spanning centuries by turning a blind eye to the "intruder from the east"?

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17710
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby chetak » 10 Jul 2018 12:34

tsarkar wrote:Abdullah Yameen is a scoundrel and the popular support is with Mohamed Nasheed. Anyone visiting other Islands in the archipelago will find immense support for Nasheed there. Yameen has also Islamicized the country similar to Zia ul Haq to deflect his dictatorial taste for power. Many radicalized islanders have joined ISIS in ME.

Most Maldivian have economic ties with India directly (fishing, tourism) and like economic growth through India

We need to take military action to ensure free & fair elections happen and aspirations of the people are met. MEA needs to build support with US, Russia and European States before Yameen builds up Pakistani and Chinese strength in the Island.

Militarily, a parachute battalion + supporting units (~1000) can be dropped in an hour and an amphibious brigade (~ 6000) can be deployed in less than 24 hours.

China and Pakistan are too far to intervene and can be blocked by Western & Eastern fleet Destroyers and Submarines.

We need to deploy the military option before Pakistani and Chinese "workers" build up in sufficient numbers. If Pakistan or China get a foothold in Maldives, we lose our strategic depth in South India.

A complete revamp of Indian Foreign Service / Ministry of External Affairs is required. Other than a few handful, most of them are useless careerists not able to guide the government.

Its not about Maldives, its about strategic depth in South India that is unaffected by issues affecting Northern Borders and is the industrial, economic and agricultural depth of India.


They are all mere baboo(n)s. They are not leaders but followers with a knack of avoiding responsibility.

RVS Mani's book on Hindu terror and a few other such books show how ministers avoided signing on files and how senior baboo(n)s adroitly "delegated" such responsibilities by verbally directing their juniors to sign papers, file notings, draft and make court affidavits and make court appearances so as to never come personally in the direct line of fire. Elsewhere, this is very imaginatively called " plausible deniability".

What guidance do you expect from these baboo(n)s?? because to a man (or woman, as the case may be) they are all trained followers, dedicated status quoists, the non imitative taking, do not rock the boat variety, and time serving, perks and privileges draining hard core followers. This is like the role of the pilot and copilot in the cockpit. One has full responsibility and the other has nil responsibility as well as very little work to do and this is often limited to radio communication, undercarriage up/down, flaps up/down and they are done for the day.

IAS does not breed leaders and nor is it designed to do so unless some of the members show personal traits and the ability to access and collect the collect funds, wrangle magsaysay awards and start xtian funded FFNGO for personal profit. These chosen guys undergo a offshore mandated deep selection process and are chosen to further offshore interests as opposed to national interests.

Look at the deliberate mess created in the GST as one example. It does not take rocket scientist to merely augment and look at tax administration from a slightly different angle. The unholy mess created is purposeful as well as subversive and the real "leaders", the self serving politicos are completely oblivious to the chaos as it serves them well.

As I have always maintained, before any law is made, the hidden loopholes as desired by powerful, dedicated, entrenched lobbies and deep state interests are first factored in and only then the law is made. Political affiliations just do not matter but interest groups always do.

The IAS is the offshoot of the britshit purpose designed ICS which was deeply premised and devised on the development of a cadre of self perpetuating and dedicated unquestioning followers, enslaved to foreign masters to carry out their wishes and push their agenda with the specific purpose of subjugating the Indian populace. This is also how the police forces work. Instead of serving their erstwhile colonial masters, they now serve their new masters, the inheritors of such colonial forces with renewed vigor. Any doubts as to why police reforms have never taken off in India??

The "foreign masters" part has now been replaced by political masters and caste oriented cliques. The original design of such "administrative" services which has proliferated in alarming numbers still continues to steadfastly work to safeguard the interests of the successors of the erstwhile colonial powers.

A complete revamp of Indian Foreign Service / Ministry of External Affairs is required. Other than a few handful, most of them are useless careerists not able to guide the government.



We need much more than mere baboo(n)s to handle the situation. Our national attention and resources is currently concentrated and focused on 2019 with heavyweights as well as baboo(s) fearful of the changes that 2019 may bring and so they are all looking, jockeying, scheming and plotting, to find niche and safe perches from which to best exploit the change, if and when it come.

This is also one of the few times that the baboo(n)s are precariously and awkwardly positioned, ear to the ground, noses to the grindstone, asses defenselessly elevated and completely uncovered, scurrying for cover so as not to be tagged by the next(?) ruling dispensation who may not be so kind to overlook their ghadari.

A safe harbor is what they all seek and maldives is far from their minds. Another dispensation may well have a radically different take on happenings in the strategic sphere and may not object too strenuously to a chinese presence in our region. The baboo(n)s may well be seeking to balance possible emerging power shifts.

The callous and single minded emasculating of the IN over the last decade or so may give us a clue as to which way the worm may turn if offshore forces prevail. A poverty ridden, tame and economically enslaved India may best serve the interests of a lot of players well.

Arima
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 34
Joined: 05 Apr 2018 14:45

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Arima » 10 Aug 2018 20:00


ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50754
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2018 02:06

Philip wrote:Tx. for the BC article.There is a definite disconnect or failure in our MEA establishment in understanding the limitations of diplomacy not backed by mil. muscle.The Nehruvian model of the force of moral strength post- Independence worked in some measure with newly independent former colonies and thanks to our leadership in NAM, until '62 exposed its weak foundation- not backed by military force.This was then, replaced by the real-politik of Mrs.G, which won us a famous victory, carried on pro-actively by Rajiv, but afterwards replaced by a " pseudo- Nehruvian" model which was rotten to the core , reflecting the corruptness of the regime of Snake-oil Singh.

Prachanda, was he not a JNU product? I remember some years ago discussing the same with one who had strong JNU academic connections. JNU , a hotbed of revolt against the system.The destruction of the Hindu Nepalese monarchy as BC says was an unmitigated disaster, allowing the Commies , and the Chinese to take over and turn Nepal into a frontline inimical neighbour of India. This underscores the acute ignorance of the fundamental security dimension to India that should govern our regional diplomacy. We ignored it at our peril in Nepal, Sri Lanka, the Maldives and are reaping the consequences.

We now have a rabid Islamic fundoo anti- Indian preacher being felicitated by the Malaysian PM.What a snub! One would've instead of futilely asking for his extradition preferred a dose of Mossad medicine!



Philip, MEA is the last bastion of Nehruvian thinking. essentially hectoring based on strategic factors and not on reality.

The destruction of Nepal monarchy by MMS govt was to facilitate Evangelical jihad. It has along history. During Rajiv Gandhi time MEA was hyperventilating about cutting off supplies to Nepal for a small infraction.


The biggest problem is that Congress was on a hurry to integrate many states but had no clear outline or road map of which states are included and which are not.
Clearly Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Nepal, Burma were not included in the integration framework. However this was never stated leading to anxiety. And chance for these countries to listen to fear mongers from outside.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9853
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Aug 2018 18:16

Question is whether to intervene before elections or intervene IN elections and bring a pro Indian entity to power. Look at how cheen dealt with SoKo. Anti-cheen president-bibi now in jail. Moon kissing Xi's moon.

Chankians in Dilli up to this level of sophistication or not? Scare the heck out of the population to make them come out and vote (last chance) against the ISIS. ***THEN*** roll back the pakis and the cheens, and instead of a few helicopters or a Dornier, base some AN-12s, a couple of divisions of IA, and a squadron of Su-30s, along with a few destroyers in the vicinity. Time is right globally to pull it off.
Sea-lane security; Protecting International Commerce

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17710
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby chetak » 11 Aug 2018 18:57

pankajs wrote:Yea .. "Insult" should be guiding principle of our foreign policy.

pankajs wrote:There was this article I read yesterday about the 3 blunders India committed in Nepal.
<snip>
One need not agree with the author but it was certainly worth a read. I will try and locate the article and post it here.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis ... aoQNI.html
India’s mistakes have allowed China to make inroads into Nepal - Brahma Chellaney


It was certainly a hugely massive blunder and one that could put India at significant risk in the days to come.

We actually had the govt of the time sending yechury as the "envoy" to reason with the nepalis.

It was akin to telling a pig to go roll in the shit and the pig enjoyed doing just that. After his "visit" things went rapidly downhill for India.

Did no one suspect that it was exactly what the hans wanted?? and they very cleverly used yechuri to accomplish it?? Even with their minuscule numbers, the poisonous commies were/are able to manipulate an ally who is very much larger.

We lost this one purely because of bad advice from all concerned, especially the NSA and the Foreign Minister + the entrenched lootyens lobby in the MEA.

The main aim of western offshore powers at the time was to introduce "secularism" into the nepali constitution, so they did not object too loudly as they could launch their India conversion operations from the haven of a secure and safe neighbouring state with very conspicuous "open" borders.

As expected, massive conversions have already taken place since in nepal and the goras are rapidly continuing to gather even more converts.

God is significantly absent throughout the Constitutions of India and Nepal. Although believers, atheists, and agnostics are treated alike by the Constitutions of India and Nepal, ‘one nation under one god’ is the allegiance which the charters of the remaining member states of South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) seek for their citizens.

In this context, Article 2 of the Constitution of Afghanistan envisages that the sacred religion of Islam shall be the religion of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. The charter also commands that all the laws should be in conformity with the principles of Islam.
Similarly, “Pakistan shall be known as the Islamic Republic of Pakistan”, says Article 1 of the Constitution and adopts Islam as the state religion in the succeeding clause.
“Maldives is a sovereign, independent, democratic republic based on the principles of Islam,” reads Article 2 of the Constitution of Maldives.

Sharing a similar notion, the preamble of the Constitution of Bangladesh commands to follow the high ideals of absolute trust and faith in the Almighty Allah and its Article 2A ensures Islam as the state religion.

The Constitutions of Bhutan (Article 3) and Sri Lanka (Article 9) give Buddhism the foremost place.

Now, it’s clear beyond any iota of doubt that Nepal and India are the two countries in South Asia which are secular in nature while the other states are not (as they have adopted Islam or Buddhism as their state religion).

Interestingly, secularism is the most loved word in ‘new’ Nepal and ‘Hinduism’ is the most abused one. If you advocate for re-establishing Nepal as a ‘Hindu State’, a section of people may term you anti-secular, regressive force or a person with outdated vision. Beyond this, some eyes with myopic vision perceive, “Hindu concerns abets communal tension.”

Now, secularism is implicit in entire constitutional framework. What does secularism in Nepali context mean? Some say, it’s a constitutional value that seeks to manage diverse and plural society of Nepal into a bond of trust for achieving a national goal.
However, “It was the Hindu identity of the state that was crucial in bringing Madheshi and ‘Pahadi’ (Hill) communities together, despite fundamental differences of language, caste, ethnicity, colour and regional consciousness as well as power sharing. Since the 18-May-2006-Declaration removed that very binding force, identity crisis was unavoidable among various communities of Nepal,” writes Dr Nirmala Mani Adhikary, Journalism faculty at Kathmandu University, in his scholarly article published in Shweta Shardul (Vol. 7, 2010) journal. He finds the change not in the benefit of nation as a whole as “The Hindu identity was, and is, such an agency which was, and is, shared by the vast majority of both Pahadi and Madheshi people.”

Dr Adhikary further writes, “The triumph of secularism over the Hindu identity of the state in Nepal has brought all communities, groups, and castes in the crossroads, where traditionally accepted identities are not simply working. Not only Madheshi but all, even ‘Pahadi’ Brahmans and Kshetris, are affected. However, the effect is even significant in case of the Madheshis. For Madheshi people of Nepal, the religious and national identities were practically same. Now, its bond of togetherness, being Hindu citizen of a Hindu nation, has been wiped out.”

Merits and demerits aside, is the secular model applicable in our social setting? It is to be noted that secularism is a western concept that originated in Europe when the separation of Church and state was essential. Nepal had never had an organised Church, so, “the notion of secularism itself is not understandable in Nepali context,” says Dr Adhikary, who has authored more than three dozens of scholarly books on communication and philosophy.

Moreover, ‘new’ Nepal’s secularism is based on the erroneous assumption that religion is entirely a personal affair with which state has nothing to do. However, when it comes to pilgrimage, a Hindu can expect no financial helps from the government of Nepal. However, there is something called Central Hajj Committee (CHC) established within the premise of Singh Durbar which receives Hajj subsidiary from the government and foreign states too. How can we say that religion is separated from state affairs?

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2668
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby kit » 17 Aug 2018 04:01

Maldives GDP = debt servicing to China. China owns them literally. I dont think the Maldives will ever be able to repay them before it sinks into the ocean in 60 years.

anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8160
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby anupmisra » 17 Aug 2018 04:27

kit wrote:Maldives GDP = debt servicing to China. China owns them literally. I dont think the Maldives will ever be able to repay them before it sinks into the ocean in 60 years.


No worries for the chinis there. They are good at building artificial islands from atolls.

anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8160
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby anupmisra » 22 Aug 2018 00:45

Yindoo ingrates! How can you refuse such as generous financial offer despite all the misgivings?

India unlikely to accept foreign financial assistance for flood-relief operations in Kerala

The government of Maldives has also decided to donate $50,000 (Rs 35 lakh) for flood affected people in Kerala.
However, sources said India is unlikely to accept the assistance.


Hey, they can fly it in the helicopters they want to return.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... VhqBN.html

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20905
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Prem » 22 Aug 2018 02:36

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-fr ... -paradise/
Maldives: A crisis in paradise

Abdallah Yameen took power in 2013 and brought in China, which had not even had an embassy before 2012. Gayoom’s half-brother, Yameen has greatly expanded the airport with Chinese aid money and is constructing a bridge to connect it to Malé, also with China’s aid money. More tourists are arriving than ever, many from China. The country is now heavily in debt to China, with which Yameen also signed a controversial free trade agreement. Many of Yameen’s opponents fear the country is in a Chinese-designed debt trap that Beijing will use to extract political and military concessions from Malé. In the worst case, Yameen might give the Chinese a military base.Saudi Arabia has also invested heavily in the Maldives. The young Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is a frequent visitor. The Saudis have bought entire islands for private use. This too has been widely criticized by the opposition. The Saudis are building a new national mosque, which will be the nation’s largest, in Malé—it is named after King Salman. The Saudis and Chinese are cooperating on several projects.The Maldives has, in return, supported the Saudis on the diplomatic front. It supports the war in Yemen, backed Saudi Arabia’s boycott of Qatar last year, and have supported Riyadh in its current quarrel with Canada. The Saudis, for their part, supported Yameen’s decision in February to impose a state of emergency and arrest several top judges who ruled that Yameen must open the election process up. Yameen also sent his half-brother and former President Gayoom to jail. The state of emergency was lifted after 45 days, but the country is not calm.

India is the strongest critic of Yameen’s moves toward dictatorship. It has criticized the pressures put on the supreme court and parliament under the state of emergency and said elections should proceed in a free and fair manner. The Indians expect that a rigged vote this September will consolidate Yameen’s dictatorship.A senior Indian diplomat told me last week that New Delhi fears that the Maldives will turn into a hostile port inclined toward China athwart the crucial shipping lanes of the Indian Ocean. Combined with China’s powerful position in Pakistan and gains in Sri Lanka, India feels surrounded. The announcement last weekend that the Maldives wants the small Indian helicopter rescue mission in the islands to go home will only add to the jitters in Delhi.The Trump administration is unlikely to care much about the demise of democracy in a far-away archipelago. President Trump made it abundantly clear when he visited Riyadh in 2017, his first foreign port of call as president, that human rights and democracy are not on his agenda. So India is probably going to be on its own.American interests are at stake for another reason. Per capita, the Maldives produces more jihadis than any other country, according to Norwegian researchers. Over 200 have gone to fight in Syria for al-Qaida or the Islamic State. In Malé, they are regarded as heroes. The decades of dictatorship and Saudi proselytization have encouraged the radicalization of Islam in paradise. The islands’ strategic location, the complex regional power play for influence in Malé, and the jihadis’ breeding rate should get Washington’s attention even in the Trump era. Washington should consult closely with New Delhi and others to promote free elections and a open political process. The Maldives can be a concrete issue for the U.S.-India dialogue.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4662
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Neshant » 29 Aug 2018 04:30

The guy is about to rig the elections and does not want any witnesses.
Every dictator however ends up the same way - being ousted through violence and often death.
Surely he knows his time at the top won't be for very long.

------

Maldives-India tension is on, Delhi unlikely to remove contentious copters before polls

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 585919.cms

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4662
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Neshant » 29 Aug 2018 14:55

The results will only have legitimacy if UN observers are monitoring the polls.

------

Maldives opposition leader: Gov't may rig next month's polls

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 567304.cms

Bhaskar_T
BRFite
Posts: 244
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 19:09

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Bhaskar_T » 24 Sep 2018 04:14

Hoping the claim below by Mr. Solih that he has won the Maldives Presidential election becomes reality and a friendly-neighborhood in Maldives is set for warm relations with India. Once this happens, I request one of BRF seniors to fly the standing-by India-Helis in Maldives and drop Mithai over Maldives. :rotfl:


Maldives election: Ibrahim Mohamed Solih claims victory

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45592375

Ibrahim Mohamed Solih holds an unbeatable lead over Abdulla Yameen, with 437 of 472 ballot boxes counted, media in the Indian Ocean islands say.

But the national electoral commission has not yet announced any results.

Observers had believed the election was rigged in favour of Mr Yameen, who favours closer ties with China, while Mr Solih leans towards India.

President Yameen's government stands accused of crushing dissent.

Police raided opposition headquarters on the eve of the vote.

Mr Solih said his win was "a moment of happiness, a moment of hope" and urged a peaceful transition of power for the Indian Ocean archipelago.

He said he had won by a 16% margin over Mr Yameen, with 92% of votes counted.

The head of Mr Solih's Maldivian Democratic Party said the result would "bring the country back to the democratic path".


Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4662
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Neshant » 24 Sep 2018 06:20

Would the present dictator give up power so easily?

What then was his purpose in jailing supreme court judges and others.

I'd wait to see how things unfold first.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11005
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Gagan » 24 Sep 2018 07:40

Democracy will be brought to Maldives - AoA to that !

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11005
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Gagan » 24 Sep 2018 07:41

Yameen might have to go into exile - somewhere. In KSA?

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20905
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Prem » 24 Sep 2018 08:20

https://maldivestimes.com/maldives-beni ... way-ahead/
Maldives: Benign neglect isn’t the way ahead

This coming Sunday, the tiny Indian Ocean archipelago that has repeatedly thumbed its nose at India, like few others in the South Asian theatre — barring Nepal and Bhutan — goes to the polls. Incumbent President Abdulla Yameen is seeking a second five-year term in a Maldives that is roiled by uncertainty, with election monitoring watchdogs such as Transparency Maldives openly expressing concern that the presidential polls could be called off at the last minute, as the ruling party is expected to resurrect “farcical plots” as a ploy to impose an emergency.If he does, it will be the third time that the canny President Yameen would have played the “coup” card.Both his police chief and defence minister have parroted the same line, saying that they have information about “plots to destabilise the country and create unrest” and warned of “dangerous acts on polling day”, that they say seeks to reinforce the operation narrative to the international community that polls would be neither free nor fair.
President Yameen, in fact, has everything riding on this re-election. If the joint Opposition candidate, Ibrahim Mohamed Solih, wins — given that the election is free and fair — retribution will be swift. The President could face impeachment and jail. In 2013, Mr Yameen’s margin of victory against the popular Mohammed Nasheed was a wafer-thin 6,300 votes out of a voter base of 260,000 voters. This time, the incumbent must ensure that “Ibu” Solih, a candidate backed not just by former President Nasheed’s Maldivian Democratic Party but also Gasim Ibrahim’s Jamhoory Party and the Islamist Adalath Party, as well as former President Abdul Gayoom’s faction of Mr Yameen’s own Progressive Party of the Maldives, does not close the gap.The nomination of Ibu as the joint Opposition candidate after his quiet meeting with mentor Mohammed Nasheed in Colombo, when the latter agreed to step out of the presidential race as did Gasim Ibrahim, was seen as something of a coup. But enough to deliver the coup de grace on Sunday?Clearly, Mr Yameen has not been complacent. The run-up to the presidential polls has been marked by an unprecedented crushing of dissent, the jailing of anyone who has stood in his way, including his half-brother and “father of the nation”, the pro-India leaning Mr Gayoom whom he has accused of colluding with the Chief Justice to unseat him from office.The ailing Mr Gayoom’s health is fading, but Mr Yameen has so far refused to allow him to be moved permanently to a hospital or place him under house arrest to facilitate treatment at home amid reports that the family’s plea to allow the 80-year-old to travel abroad was given a thumbs down. Mr Gayoom’s son and son-in-law are also in jail, as is the Chief Justice and two senior Supreme Court judges — openly pro-India — who ordered the release of Opposition leaders who had been detained by Mr Yameen; all 15, uniformly charged with terrorism and attempting to overthrow the government.Opposition leaders ranging from those in Mr Gayoom’s camp to members of the Mohammed Nasheed-led MDP have consistently been raising their concerns over voter fraud and intimidation, and threats faced by their elected representatives. Eva Abdulla, a serving member of Parliament for the MDP, recounts how she and other members of her party and the Opposition are routinely followed and have their phones tapped.Ms Abdulla says the Opposition is banking on the overwhelming numbers they expect to mobilise against the President to offset the PPM’s tactics, pointing to the results of the local council elections held last year that the ruling party was unable to subvert.Days before the polls, the Opposition has simultaneously stepped up moves to prove that the President and his circle of advisers, including the former vice-president, had allegedly indulged in “money-laundering, bribery and corruption” to the tune of millions of dollars under the cover of getting a Singapore-based businessman to invest in the Maldives. The Opposition released mobile phone records on Wednesday that showed transcripts of a conversation between the Singapore-based businessman and the Maldivian middleman on the day that the Maldivian President was visiting Singapore. Phone recordings of a conversation between the President and his wife Fahimath, discussing how to manage the poll, have similarly gone viral.
For New Delhi, which has the borne the ignominy of being reduced to a bit player in its own backyard under Abdulla Yameen — his open embrace of China while cutting India out, no doubt, a spillover from governments past — this may be time for a reset. While the Narendra Modi government has refrained from an open avowal of the united Opposition, its concerns over whether Mr Nasheed is a front for the UK has to be weighed against the growing footprint of the Chinese, with the China-Maldives Friendship Bridge that connected two main islands winning the President major brownie points domestically. Will an undivided Opposition be able to counter a street-smart President who has everything to lose?
Either way, be it a Yameen or a Nasheed proxy calling the shots in Male, its time for India to dust off a fresh Maldives initiative. Benign neglect cannot be the way forward.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4662
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby Neshant » 24 Sep 2018 10:53

The judges who were imprisoned for upholding the law should be freed immediately and the ones sitting on the bench currently should be jailed for life.

Review all the OBOR deals done by the previous govt designed to sink the nation into debt to China and declare them null & void.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1444
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Maldives Civil-Military Issues

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Sep 2018 11:47

^^I suspect India is not alone. Khan has committed itself to the game and India has their support. There was a threat of financial sanctions from khan and EU too. Time to get our act right.
That said admiral has a lot of mithai to be left to be distributed to BRFites.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: srin and 31 guests