Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

The Rohingya Menace

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Shanmukh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2804
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Shanmukh » 11 Sep 2017 05:14

Lord Buddha would have helped the Rohingyas, says Dalai Lama. But he cleverly doesn't say to whom the whole thing is addressed - Burma or India.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/lord-bud ... ma-1748490

Russia as usual has no such qualms. Dozens of those protesting for Rohingyas held by the Russians.

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/russia-d ... ya-1748427

Australia should take in 20K Rohingya refugees, say the Greens.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... yebu4.html

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3521
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Karthik S » 11 Sep 2017 10:12

Ah, my fav city.

Dhanya Rajendran‏Verified account
@dhanyarajendran
Follow
More
Hundreds take to the streets in Hyderabad to protest Centre's plans to deport Rohingyas

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9128
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby arun » 11 Sep 2017 11:52

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden belief based violence sees Mohammaddens of the minority Shia sect and Hazara ethnic group yet again rouse the predatory instincts of fellow Mohammaddens of the majority Sunni sect in the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Gunmen kill 4 minority Shiites in Pakistan

I am pretty sure that one will not see a smililar sized march of solidarity to condemn Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden belief inspired violence perpetrated against Mohammaddens of the Shia sect and Hazara ethnic group in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan simply because the slaughter was committed by fellow Sunni Mohammaddens and not as alleged by Kaafir Non-Mohammaddens, Buddhist Myanmarese in the below case:

Thousands march to show solidarity with Rohingya Muslims

I am also pretty certain that the Presidents of Sunni Mohammadden majority Turkey and the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan will not any time soon be discussing the plight of Shia Mohammaddens of Hazara ethnic origin simply because the slaughter was committed by fellow Sunni Mohammaddens and not as alleged by Kaafir Non-Mohammaddens, Buddhist Myanmarese in the below case

President Mamnoon, Erdogan discuss plight of Rohingya Muslims

siddhu
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 37
Joined: 16 Aug 2016 16:02

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby siddhu » 11 Sep 2017 12:33

We should offer to airlift all the Rohingya to the countries that are so concerned about so called refugees let them feed them.

AjayKK
BRFite
Posts: 1511
Joined: 10 Jan 2008 10:27

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby AjayKK » 11 Sep 2017 13:27

Falijee wrote:Fix Your Own "Rohingyas Problem" First, Before Protesting To The Govt Of Myanmar !

Rohingya Muslims who fled Burma decades ago did not escape persecution
Taimur Khan

Old article but relevant in the present circumstances !

As Pakistanis vent their outrage over violence towards the Rohingya in Myanmar, their own Rohingya are facing many of the same hardships and are among Karachi's poorest and most vulnerable communities. Taimur Khan reports from Karachi


OT post.
If you haven't seen it, the 2015 Hindi film "Welcome 2 Karachi" makes a good caricature of Pakistan and all its segments including the trigger-happy Pathans, the power-hungry Baloch and Sindh politicos, the bumbling Pakjabis and the Talibanis, the credit-hogging Americans etc.

In the movie a BD-Rohingya tea seller is shown on the streets of Karachi outside the (fictional)Indian Embassy, and true to form, he pulls out a gun and starts an unintended mini riot in the area.

The movie does not have a great plot and is a bit geographically-challenged as well (Talibani hijacks Arshad Warsi's car in Karachi and takes them to FATA). It is not on the scale of 'Tere Bin Laden' but an average one-time watch.


Ko Moe Myint and Kyaw Zwa Moe of the Irrawaddy News present a report on the situation

Kyaw Zwa Moe: Welcome to Dateline Irrawaddy! It has been 10 days since Muslim terrorists launched attacks in Rakhine State’s Maungdaw District. According to government figures as well as information we’ve collected, about 500 people were killed in 10 days. Our reporter Ko Moe Myint recently went to Maungdaw to interview the people there and also witnessed attacks and damage. We’ll discuss who he interviewed, what he saw and the situation on the ground. I’m Irrawaddy English editor Kyaw Zwa Moe.

https://www.facebook.com/theirrawaddybu ... 908435187/

KZM: According to a government release, around 400 ARSA [Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army] members were killed. The worst thing is reports that more than 80 Hindus—[Moe Myint] also interviewed some Hindu community members—were allegedly killed. You went to Maungdaw where attacks were taking place and houses were burned down. Would you recount what you saw?

Moe Myint: As soon as we got into Buthidaung, we could feel the severity of the conflict in Maungdaw. We saw clouds of smoke billowing into the sky. As soon as we arrived at Buthidaung Jetty, we heard the bad news that four Arakanese people were killed near Zula village in Maungdaw’s three-mile camp. There is a village called Myo Thugyi which is just a five-minute walk out of Maungdaw. It is a big Muslim village. There are around 1,200 houses there. All the houses were torched and none of them remained intact.

I went to Maungdaw after attacks in Oct. 9, 2016. At that time, the situation was different. Myo Thugyi village was lively with bazaars and students. But now, all of the houses have been reduced to ash. The whole village is gone. This was the first sign of the immensity of the conflict on the ground. I went to [relief] camps and interviewed Hindus. After the conflict broke out on Aug. 25, Muslim crowds threatened them [they said]. Hindus live together with Muslims in No. 4 and No. 5 wards [of Maungdaw]. All those wards have been torched. Witnesses said arson attacks were carried out by religious extremists. I also witnessed [their feelings].

KZM: You mean Hindu witnesses?

MM: Yes.

KZM: You have also reported about this. Were [Hindus] killed by Muslim militants?

MM: Muslims made threats. Some shot with a gun and one [Hindu] was killed. I also interviewed the mother of a victim.
She could identify from where the gun was fired.
But things are different from what we usually see in movies—not every one of them is shooting with a gun. Some have improvised firearms, some have guns and some have swords. They are a large crowd and it is easier for them to threaten and attack small groups of people. Hindus are the minority there and they dare not talk back to them. What they can do is to avoid conflict. So, they flee. But the town is too small, only four or five wards. So, they flee to Arakanese wards. They escaped, but unluckily some were killed on the way.

KZM: According to witnesses, how many Hindus were killed?

MM: I met the survivors of a family whose members included children [and said] about four or five [members of the family] were killed. She was a Hindu woman called ‘Kamala’ who was receiving treatment at Buthidaung Township Hospital. Her 12-member family came back from southern Maungdaw on Aug. 26 and 27 after conflict broke out. And they took a rest at three-mile camp where police were providing security. They followed a police convoy to go to Ward No. 4 [in Maungdaw]. But by that time, that ward had already been reduced to ashes. The security convoy encountered hundreds of Muslim militants in Myo Thugyi village on their way to Maungdaw. It was followed by an exchange of fire, and the Hindu family fled in fright to the district court, which was under construction. The security convoy didn’t care about the people who were travelling behind them. Perhaps they wanted to avoid conflict with large crowds or perhaps they hadn’t noticed the people travelling behind them. They left. The [Hindu] family was too frightened and so they fled into a nearby building. Some of the people in the crowd had guns and they shot [at them]. Kamala was hit. She was shot in the chest and lost consciousness. The rest were killed with swords. Witnesses told us that [attackers] said words related to religion like ‘Allah is taking you. So you must go. :roll: ’ [Attackers] left her because they thought she was dead. We can say her account is very credible.

KZM: Did you interview any Muslims living in Maungdaw or Sittwe? What did they say?

MM:
I met about six Muslims. Most of them were educated and businesspeople. Anyway, it is fair to say they were educated. They said they condemned such violence. Violence disrupts regional stability and order. They are in hardship now. There were attacks on 30 locations in Maungdaw District, and that also impacts urban areas. Grassroots poor Muslim families who have to rely on rivers and creeks for their daily livelihoods and who know nothing about politics also suffered from the impact of that conflict. They could not go to the market. There is no food and they have to share food with each other. There are two separate things here: ARSA claimed that it fights for its political goal, but its actions have shifted to terrorism. Their acts cannot move the situation for everyday people in a positive direction. At least, they should have displayed tolerance. Kofi Annan’s [Rakhine State Advisory] Commission formed by Daw Aung San Suu Kyi has also provided recommendations. But [ARSA] didn’t wait for the implementation of those recommendations, and instead it launched attacks.

MM: We discussed this in last week’s Dateline. Attacks were launched on Aug. 25, the same day Kofi Annan submitted his recommendations to the government, the president and Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. The government said it would implement those recommendations. Then, immediately, attacks followed. It is fair to say attacks were launched even before that. [ARSA’s] response is that they didn’t accept Kofi Annan’s recommendations and their implementation by the government. They responded in a violent way.

MM: I think they are undermining the positive move made by Daw Aung San Suu Kyi’s government to solve the problem. Viewing ARSA’s recent official video clips on YouTube, its ultimate political goal is to build an Islamic State [for the Rohingya]. To put it bluntly, it is no longer about human rights. It is about self-interest, which is contrary to human rights. Reconciliation, I think, would be difficult in Maungdaw if they work to that end.

KZM: You mean it will be hard to reconcile between the two communities?

MM: Not just two sides, it is three parties now. One more party has been involved—the Hindu community. I’ve asked Hindus, and all of them unanimously said they dare not live together with [Muslims]. They will not go back to stay within Muslim quarters anymore and also refuse to accept government suggestions that they live together with Muslims. They asked the government for segregation.

KZM: What about other sub-ethnic groups such as the Mro [an Arakanese sub-group]? Did you interview them and what did they say?

MM: Mro people also dare not live [alongside Muslims]. They know nothing about politics. They don’t know who the Rohingya are. To put it bluntly, they don’t even know who the president of Myanmar is. Such people who lead a simple life on farms and who know nothing about urban life were killed, and fell victim to the conflict. They are frightened to death. They have lived and worked on hillside farms for generations and never experienced this before. Now, they have all moved.

KZM: Before you went to Maungdaw, the government declared ARSA a terrorist organization. Did you witness its activities on the ground in Maungdaw? To what extent is it involved in the Maungdaw [attacks]?

MM: What I found out is—I didn’t witness it—from the car I was in, I saw the location of a mine explosion on the way. It is obvious that ARSA has influence over local Muslim people. When I interviewed Muslim sources about ARSA, they were reluctant to answer. We must understand this. I also understand this, so I don’t disclose the identity of Muslim sources. Because if they criticize the government—they are businessmen and educated—it could impact their long-term relations [with the government]. But on the other hand, if they criticize ARSA and if we disclose their identity—there are previous examples of Muslim men beheaded after they gave interviews to the government. The situation is dangerous for them in the conflict zone.

KZM: Do you think this conflict will go on?

MM: It is very likely that it will continue. An Islamic State, which is the ultimate goal of ARSA according to their online video clips, will continue the conflict. This is quite sure. And regarding the geographical location of Maungdaw, it is surrounded by three large Muslim villages. There are at least 30,000 people. Of them, only Myo Thugyi is gone and two others remain intact. No houses were burned and there was no conflict there. So, it is fair to say there is still some hope for remedy. But if the goal of an Islamic State is real and people from those villages join them, the problem will get worse.

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12854
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby negi » 11 Sep 2017 13:38

India should intervene in military capacity and take this conflict beyond our frontiers otherwise we will end up talking needlessly while lot of refugees make it into our lands .

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3521
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Karthik S » 11 Sep 2017 13:45

negi wrote:India should intervene in military capacity and take this conflict beyond our frontiers otherwise we will end up talking needlessly while lot of refugees make it into our lands .


You'll intervene where exactly?

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 21383
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby SSridhar » 11 Sep 2017 15:08

Rohingya militants declare ceasefire - AFP
Rohingya militants in Myanmar, whose raids sparked an Army crackdown that has seen nearly 300,000 Muslim Rohingya flee to Bangladesh, on Sunday declared a unilateral ceasefire but the government declared it would not negotiate with “terrorists”.

The UN said 2,94,000 Rohingya refugees have arrived in Bangladesh since the militants’ attacks on Myanmar security forces in neighbouring Rakhine state on August 25 sparked a major military backlash.

“The Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA) hereby declares a temporary cessation of offensive military operations,” the group said in a statement on its Twitter account. It urged “all humanitarian actors” to resume aid delivery to “all victims of humanitarian crisis irrespective of ethnic or religious background” during the one-month ceasefire until October 9.

In addition to Rohingya, some 27,000 ethnic Rakhine Buddhists as well as Hindus have also fled violence in the northern part of Rakhine state. ARSA called on Myanmar to “reciprocate this humanitarian pause” in fighting.

Myanmar, which has previously labelled ARSA as “terrorists”, appeared to reject the overture. “We have no policy to negotiate with terrorists,” Zaw Htay, a senior government spokesman, tweeted late Sunday. Rohingya refugees say the Army operations against ARSA led to mass killing of civilians and the burning of hundreds of villages, sending them across the border.

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6431
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby IndraD » 11 Sep 2017 17:22

Kerala IUML to launch agitation against Indian govt move to send back Rohingyas
“The IUML will launch agitation inside and outside the Parliament against the move to send back the Rohingyas. The union government’s stand in offering help to the people in distress is very disappointing,” he said, the Times of India reports.

“Aung San Suu Kyi had not even condemned the continuing killings in her country,” Thangal said. “It is really regrettable that unspeakable violence is unleashed on Rohingyas in Myanmar under the Nobel laureate Suu Kyi. The violence in Myanmar has assumed the proportion of the worst genocide in the history of the world. Even the United had said that Rohingyas are the worst tortured people in the world,” the IUML chief said.

He added, “The Rohingyas have been denied opportunity to education and jobs. The atrocities on them are decades-old. What is more disturbing is the fact that the violence is being perpetrated in the name of Lord Buddha, who advocated non-violence.” http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/ke ... gyas-68177

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6431
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby IndraD » 11 Sep 2017 17:23

Shanmukh wrote:Australia should take in 20K Rohingya refugees, say the Greens.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... yebu4.html

Why ME shoud not accomodate them: they are not more than 1 million.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60187
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Singha » 11 Sep 2017 17:29

the GCC and its followers should accomodate them. the OIC can allocate quotes based on population and resources and show their solidarity.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 21383
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby SSridhar » 11 Sep 2017 17:37

It has been one heck of a series of multiple agitations, almost all of them with the sole aim of painting our PM with the vilest of black brushes, since May 2014. The Rohingya issue is another one in that dubious list.

The Hindu wrote an edit on that yesterday and there have been at least two op-eds of support on the issue every single day in the last couple of days. Today, there is one by a Bangladeshi who claims that India's Bali dissociation "puts into question its respect for human rights and the treatment of minorities". The guy never revealed his nationality and even the byline says, "Prof. Syed Munir Khasru is Chairman of the international think tank, The Institute for Policy, Advocacy, and Governance (IPAG)". Of course, The Hindu's dirty acts of publishing only very few comments whenever there is a great opposition to its views notwithstanding, 80% of the few published comments have been critical of the article and gained a lot of reader support.

The Hindu is on a roll with the Rohingya issue and the Gauri Lankesh case.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9095
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Yagnasri » 11 Sep 2017 17:43

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 80yFJ.html

Moral lectures will be given with increasing frequency as the 2019 approched. MSM will repeat them faithfully.

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12854
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby negi » 11 Sep 2017 19:09

Karthik S wrote:
negi wrote:India should intervene in military capacity and take this conflict beyond our frontiers otherwise we will end up talking needlessly while lot of refugees make it into our lands .


You'll intervene where exactly?

Well if this means giving the Myanmar army a sound beating and forcing their government to absorb the Rohingyas then so be it , that is the most 'viable && effective' resolution to this issue . Everything else however morally correct won't be viable.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3521
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Karthik S » 11 Sep 2017 19:12

negi wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
You'll intervene where exactly?

Well if this means giving the Myanmar army a sound beating and forcing their government to absorb the Rohingyas then so be it , that is the most 'viable && effective' resolution to this issue . Everything else however morally correct won't be viable.


You don't mean it I believe. Conducting military operation on an ally to help rohingyas resettle in Myanmar?

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12854
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby negi » 11 Sep 2017 19:21

Rohingyas are already settled in Myanmar no one can do anything about it just like we cannot do anything with illegal BDs and Rohingyas in India; my suggestion is perhaps sentimentally not compliant with general feelings but feelings never help national interests . Our interest lies in preventing influx of more Rohingyas into India and that cannot happen with Myanmar not giving official resident status to all Rohingyas not unless Myanmar drops a huge H bomb on the whole area and be done with it .

We all keep trash-bins to keep our houses clean , you cannot wish away the garbage and the trash-bin . If Myanmar does not keep the Rohingyas someone else will have to .

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1483
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby chola » 11 Sep 2017 19:27

negi wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
You'll intervene where exactly?

Well if this means giving the Myanmar army a sound beating and forcing their government to absorb the Rohingyas then so be it , that is the most 'viable && effective' resolution to this issue . Everything else however morally correct won't be viable.


I rather we give the Beedees a sound beating to accept their kith and kin from BOTH Myanmar and our NE to be perfectly honest.

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12854
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby negi » 11 Sep 2017 19:29

^ BD is buffer between us and Rohingya nonsense , if we foment trouble in BD chances of people moving into WB and Assam are higher than them moving to Mynamar . Stable BD is in our interest make no mistake so is Myanmar and hence my suggestion.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3521
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Karthik S » 11 Sep 2017 19:33

What about illegal BD nonsense sir? So won't your logic apply to BD as well as Chola sir suggested? Two branches of Sanathan Dharma battling out for whom?

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12854
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby negi » 11 Sep 2017 19:45

^ There is a subtle difference here; people moving from BD to WB and Assam are crossing over even during the peace time purely in search of jobs and better opportunity ,common language and a porus border does not help . However Rohingya issue is different those guys are moving across due to turmoil in Myanmar ; should we do something about BD situation ? Sure but I am not sure what can be done even for Massa building a wall at the border is a tough ask our border with BD is a mess it's almost like a state surrounded by India on the 3 sides.

periaswamy
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 51
Joined: 07 Jul 2017 20:50

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby periaswamy » 11 Sep 2017 21:00

Why is it in India's interest to make enemies of the Myanmar govt.? Pretty stupid idea to destroy perfectly good relations with any ally that is crucial to the stability of India's NorthEastern States. People have already forgotten how difficult it was to manage the north east when Myanmar army and govt. were not cooperating? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Bangladesh, on the other hand, has deliberately destabilized India whenever the BNP came into power and will definitely do so if the jihadis in BNP come to power again. It is only under Sheikh Hasina has something positive being happened -- let us not forget it is the same usual suspects (who are berating India for not accepting the rohingya jihadis) are the same ones that have been trying to topple Sheikh Hasina for her take down of paki-friendly jihadi forces in BD.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8354
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Sep 2017 21:19

Are these ppl the same as "Kachin Rebels" of long ago? Sad. Cousin Imtiaz is an honorable VBIED driver in Iraq, Aunt Ayesha became shaheed in a market in Yangon when she answered a call on her cellphone while wearing her new imported Mecca Jacket, brother Yasser went to England and became shaheed in the subway July 7, Pappa Yusuf inflated a market in Belgium, but otherwise this is an absolutely innocent family, NONE of the present members has ever been a suicide bomber. NEVER. So why this prejudice, hain?

periaswamy
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 51
Joined: 07 Jul 2017 20:50

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby periaswamy » 11 Sep 2017 21:26

Kachin Rebels were to the northeast of Myanmar IIRC, bordering China, whereas these Rohingyas are towards the southwest in the states close to BD.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47346
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby ramana » 11 Sep 2017 21:30

The British are going full bore on the Rohingya refugee issues to tar and feather Myanmar and India.
They have pressed their minions in their and desi media, BBC, and in UNHCR.
The UNHCR chairman is Saudi Arabian diplomat, as Saudi Arabia is the chairman this time, and he got his experience in Bosnia!!!!

Looks like this is a UK led escalation of the Rohingjya issue to give blow to AngSan Su Kyii and Modi.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47346
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby ramana » 11 Sep 2017 21:34

UlanBatori wrote:Are these ppl the same as "Kachin Rebels" of long ago? Sad. Cousin Imtiaz is an honorable VBIED driver in Iraq, Aunt Ayesha became shaheed in a market in Yangon when she answered a call on her cellphone while wearing her new imported Mecca Jacket, brother Yasser went to England and became shaheed in the subway July 7, Pappa Yusuf inflated a market in Belgium, but otherwise this is an absolutely innocent family, NONE of the present members has ever been a suicide bomber. NEVER. So why this prejudice, hain?


No Kachin are close to China border.

These are Rohingjyas located in Rakhin province, which is close to Bangla Desh.
This problem is British created when partition of Burma from British India was doe in 1935.
The Rohinjgjyas are not in Europe.

Please at least read wiki.

UK wants India to absorb them and Myanmar to not expel them.

Bangladesh is making noise about 300,000 Rohingjyas.

What about the 20 million Bangladeshis in India???

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9128
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby arun » 11 Sep 2017 21:38

^^^ UNHCR Head Prince Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein is a member of the Hashemite royal family making him Jordanian (or) Iraqi. Definitely not Saudi.

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6431
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby IndraD » 11 Sep 2017 21:53

thanks ramana sir for info
may I add it was UK which used veto power to get Saudi on UNHRC seat.

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6431
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby IndraD » 11 Sep 2017 21:55

Myanmar Leader Backs Buddhist Monks’ Calls for Laws to ‘Protect’ Religion, Race http://www.rfa.org/english/news/myanmar ... Nc.twitter

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3674
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Peregrine » 11 Sep 2017 23:22

ramana wrote:The British are going full bore on the Rohingya refugee issues to tar and feather Myanmar and India.
They have pressed their minions in their and desi media, BBC, and in UNHCR.
The UNHCR chairman is Saudi Arabian diplomat, as Saudi Arabia is the chairman this time, and he got his experience in Bosnia!!!!

Looks like this is a UK led escalation of the Rohingjya issue to give blow to AngSan Su Kyii and Modi.

ramana Ji :

An old article : 26-06-2014

The Scandal of Ambassador Zeid

Why the new United Nations human rights advocate is the wrong man for the job.

On June 16, the 193 member states of the United Nations General Assembly unanimously approved Prince Zeid Raad Zeid al-Hussein of Jordan as the new High Commissioner for Human Rights, charged with spearheading the U.N.’s human rights activities.

The nomination of long-time career diplomat Ambassador Zeid (shown in the photo above at right) has been largely met with approval from major human rights organizations. Human Rights Watch’s executive director Kenneth Roth tweeted that Zeid had "a strong rights record." Suzanne Nossel, former director of Amnesty International USA and current executive director of PEN America, also wrote a mostly positive piece on Ambassador Zeid in Foreign Policy.

These positive reactions are based on Ambassador Zeid’s role in advancing the International Criminal Court and seeking to hold U.N. peacekeeping personnel accountable for sexual violence. Diplomats from Western democracies also highlight Zeid’s Muslim and Arab background combined with his progressive credentials as crucial for bridging the gap between the U.N.’s Western states and Asian (particularly Islamic) countries.

But there are grounds for concern about how Ambassador Zeid will treat what is arguably the most consequential human right: the right to freedom of expression. Jordan’s voting record on the highly divisive attempt to force U.N. states to criminalize the "defamation of religion" leaves a huge question mark about how aggressively Ambassador Zeid will defend free speech in the sphere of religion, where this right is constantly under attack at both the national and international level.

From 1999-2010, member states of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) successfully tabled resolutions on "combating defamation of religion" as part of their campaign to implement a global blasphemy ban under human rights law, in the Human Rights Council (known as the U.N. Commission on Human Rights until 2006) and the General Assembly. During both of Ambassador Zeid’s periods as Jordan’s ambassador to the U.N., Jordan voted in favour of these resolutions when they were introduced at the General Assembly. Both of the resolutions passed. The 2010 resolution commended "the recent steps taken by Member States to protect freedom of religion through the enactment or strengthening of domestic frameworks and legislation to prevent the vilification of religions and the negative stereotyping of religious groups" and urged the international community to follow suit.

Jordan’s voting record in the U.N. is consistent with the country’s domestic record on blasphemy. In 2006, two newspaper editors who reprinted cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad previously published by the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten were sentenced to two months of imprisonment. In 2011, Jordan initiated a trial in absentia against Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, the creator of the offending cartoon, as well as 19 Danish journalists and editors who had published the cartoon in various news outlets. In 2009, Jordanian poet Eslam Samhan was sentenced to imprisonment and a fine for blasphemy after having included Quranic verses in his poetry. It was developments such as these that the 2010 resolution on defamation of religion hailed and sought to enact at the international level, turning human rights into a weapon against religious dissent and non-conformism rather than principles protecting the freedom of conscience and pluralism.

In 2011, the United States and the OIC brokered a compromise, Human Rights Council Resolution 16/18, that aims to protect individuals, rather than religions, from religious discrimination and intolerance, and to promote "open, constructive and respectful debate." While this uneasy truce stopped the parade of anti-defamation resolutions, it did not end efforts by OIC members to prosecute those deemed to have insulted Islam. Only in 2013, the ministers of justice of the League of Arab States approved an extremely wide-ranging draft blasphemy law that not only aims at criminalizing allegedly blasphemous utterances (including miming!) but also envisaged extraterritorial jurisdiction, meaning that someone deemed to have blasphemed in the United States or Europe would be liable to prosecution in Arab League member states. OIC member states like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Egypt continue to aggressively enforce blasphemy and religious insult laws, often targeting members of vulnerable religious minorities or free thinkers straying from state-sanctioned orthodoxy (most of whom are Muslims). According to the 2013 Freedom of Thought Report, different forms of "blasphemy" are still a crime in 55 countries (including several European ones, only some of which enforce them). According to these laws, blasphemers can end up in prison in 39 of those countries; in six of them blasphemy qualifies as a capital offense.

While it is hardly surprising that Jordan voted along with the OIC block on defamation of religion, it is fair to ask if Ambassador Zeid agreed with his government’s disdain for the freedom of expression or was simply toeing the line determined in Amman. Either way, the ability to stand firm on human rights principles in the face of overwhelming pressure is the quality most essential for a successful High Commissioner. Ambassador Zeid’s record on freedom of expression suggests either too great a willingness to compromise on human rights principles or a lack of civil courage, neither of which would recommend him for the job. To dispel these fears and pre-empt any OIC attempts to reintroduce the concept of defamation (or guises thereof), Ambassador Zeid should move swiftly to declare in no uncertain terms that freedom of expression includes the right to criticize religion even when offensive to religious feelings. That would be in line with the efforts of his predecessor, Navi Pillay, as well as the U.N.’s Human Rights Committee and the U.N. Special Rapporteurs on Freedom of Opinion and Expression and Freedom of Religion or Belief. Most importantly it would also be consistent with international human rights law. No other position should be acceptable for the U.N.’s High Commissioner for Human Rights.

Cheers Image

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3521
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Karthik S » 11 Sep 2017 23:58

Agree with Global Times on this one.

Malala has a lot to learn before hitting out at Suu Kyi


http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1065361.shtml

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6431
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby IndraD » 12 Sep 2017 01:42

UK should stop training Myanamar army (what spin is this? :wink: )
A group of 157 MPs on Saturday called on Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson to halt Britain’s military training in Myanmar, which cost the UK around £305,000 last year, according to the Independent.
Answers to written parliamentary questions reveal that Britain does not train for combat, but seeks to educate Myanmar soldiers on democracy, leadership and the English language.
Back in November, the former Armed Forces Minister Mike Penning said it is yet unknown whether the Myanmar soldiers trained by the UK have any involvement in operations carried out against the Rohingya.
Moreover, he added that officials had not verified if Britain’s training efforts had improved the country’s human rights.
In a letter to Johnson, the parliamentarians, led by Labour MP Rushanara Ali, who co-chairs the all-party parliamentary group for democracy in Myanmar, said: “Based on reports from the United Nations, human rights organisations and Rohingya organisations, we are witnessing human rights violations on a scale extreme even by the standards of Myanmar’s (Burma’s) history.


https://www.rt.com/uk/402944-rohingya-m ... -training/

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47346
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby ramana » 12 Sep 2017 02:57

What kind of BS is that training?

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3521
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Karthik S » 12 Sep 2017 08:30

IIRC, the britards train in Jungle warfare in the jungles of Myanmar. Not sure if their army is training Burmese army.

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12854
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby negi » 12 Sep 2017 10:56

periaswamy wrote:Why is it in India's interest to make enemies of the Myanmar govt.? Pretty stupid idea to destroy perfectly good relations with any ally that is crucial to the stability of India's NorthEastern States. People have already forgotten how difficult it was to manage the north east when Myanmar army and govt. were not cooperating? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Bangladesh, on the other hand, has deliberately destabilized India whenever the BNP came into power and will definitely do so if the jihadis in BNP come to power again. It is only under Sheikh Hasina has something positive being happened -- let us not forget it is the same usual suspects (who are berating India for not accepting the rohingya jihadis) are the same ones that have been trying to topple Sheikh Hasina for her take down of paki-friendly jihadi forces in BD.

This is example of talking good principles but tell me sir on ground zero whatever you said how does it actually help our interests ? If we are to support Myanmar and say Rohingyas are completely ousted from Myanmar we should be able to then control where they will settle , fact is practically we cannot do that simply because we have not been able to seal our borders with BD (which I have already alluded to) , BD is not some god's own country where Rohingyas would like to settle so they will cross-over into WB and Assam just like BDs . Long story short the only permanent thing should be looking after our interests it is not selfish to look after interests of over a 1 billion people .

As for learning a lesson from history I have learnt them very well i.e. mushy talk and good principles only get people killed . We have always tried to take a so called principled stand and fckd things up right from 62 to NAM and such $hite . Myanmar will have good relations with anyone who wields a bigger stick we need not care about them , if Myanmar wants to push out the Rohingyas and someone here claims we should support such a move then people need to answer the part about where will Rohingyas move to (I have clearly explained why they are most likely to move to India , now if people want think being nice in Myanmar's books is worth this trouble then I rest my case)

periaswamy
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 51
Joined: 07 Jul 2017 20:50

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby periaswamy » 12 Sep 2017 11:05

negi:This is example of talking good principles but tell me sir on ground zero whatever you said how does it actually help our interests ? I


I am actually not talking principles at all. India's interests lie in ensuring that NE militia groups do not find sanctuary in Myanmar India border, as they used to in the past. This means India must ensure that Myanmar remains a strong ally, and if India wants to ensure that Rohingyas do not flood India, then it is up to us to seal the porous borders.

As an alternative, consider the list of problems that will arise, if NE militia groups are allowed to linger in Myanmar and the Myanmar govt. refuses to cooperate with India on that front. Is that an improvement to the situation today? If not, then it is smarter to not move in that direction.

One has to define "interests of Indian people" very specifically to avoid making bad decisions -- defending India's territorial integrity and ensuring political stability is definitely in the interests of the India public at large.
Last edited by periaswamy on 12 Sep 2017 11:10, edited 1 time in total.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3521
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Karthik S » 12 Sep 2017 11:08

negi wrote:
periaswamy wrote:Why is it in India's interest to make enemies of the Myanmar govt.? Pretty stupid idea to destroy perfectly good relations with any ally that is crucial to the stability of India's NorthEastern States. People have already forgotten how difficult it was to manage the north east when Myanmar army and govt. were not cooperating? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Bangladesh, on the other hand, has deliberately destabilized India whenever the BNP came into power and will definitely do so if the jihadis in BNP come to power again. It is only under Sheikh Hasina has something positive being happened -- let us not forget it is the same usual suspects (who are berating India for not accepting the rohingya jihadis) are the same ones that have been trying to topple Sheikh Hasina for her take down of paki-friendly jihadi forces in BD.

This is example of talking good principles but tell me sir on ground zero whatever you said how does it actually help our interests ? If we are to support Myanmar and say Rohingyas are completely ousted from Myanmar we should be able to then control where they will settle , fact is practically we cannot do that simply because we have not been able to seal our borders with BD (which I have already alluded to) , BD is not some god's own country where Rohingyas would like to settle so they will cross-over into WB and Assam just like BDs . Long story short the only permanent thing should be looking after our interests it is not selfish to look after interests of over a 1 billion people .

As for learning a lesson from history I have learnt them very well i.e. mushy talk and good principles only get people killed . We have always tried to take a so called principled stand and fckd things up right from 62 to NAM and such $hite . Myanmar will have good relations with anyone who wields a bigger stick we need not care about them , if Myanmar wants to push out the Rohingyas and someone here claims we should support such a move then people need to answer the part about where will Rohingyas move to (I have clearly explained why they are most likely to move to India , now if people want think being nice in Myanmar's books is worth this trouble then I rest my case)


Let's ship the RMs to Rakhine state, let's sternly tell Myanmar it's their problem, they can solve it however they wish. No need for us to take any military action on anyone. So far we haven't heard anything from the Burmese regarding not taking RMs back. Let's not complicate things.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3521
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby Karthik S » 12 Sep 2017 11:10

periaswamy wrote:
negi:This is example of talking good principles but tell me sir on ground zero whatever you said how does it actually help our interests ? I


I am actually not talking principles at all. India's interests lie in ensuring that NE militia groups do not find sanctuary in Myanmar India border, as they used to in the past. This means India must ensure that Myanmar remains a strong ally, and if India wants to ensure that Rohingyas do not flood India, then it is up to us to seal the porous borders.

As an alternative, consider the list of problems that will arise, if NE militia groups are allowed to linger in Myanmar and the Myanmar govt. refuses to cooperate with India on that front. Is that an improvement to the situation today? If not, then it is smarter to not move in that direction.

One has to define "interests of a brilliant people" very specifically to avoid making bad decisions -- defending India's territorial integrity and ensuring political stability is definitely in the interests of the India public at large.


+1, was about to mention the same. Remember the our operation into Myanmar ?

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12854
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby negi » 12 Sep 2017 11:12

^ Sir 40k Rohingyas have already crossed over , imagine if we no one intervenes in Mynamar and they displace out all the Rohingyas and they move into Assam and WB we will be looking at a much bigger problem as against militancy in NE; you have to realize that militancy in NE is very very local however Rohingyas could be potential recruits for ISI and their sphere of influence would not be limited to a region or state in particular. Myanmar is no TSP or China so we can conduct surgical strikes there we do not need support of their government per se , we conducting surgical strikes is dependent on kind of spine the government at center has because I find it funny that world's second largest Army would need to think about diplomatic relations with a small country before being able to conduct any strikes .
Last edited by negi on 12 Sep 2017 11:18, edited 1 time in total.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15627
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby chetak » 12 Sep 2017 11:14

Pakistan, ISIS allegedly behind Rakhine imbroglio

Indian and Bangladesh intelligence officials say that they have intercepted three long duration calls between Hafiz Tohar, military wing chief of Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA) on 23rd and 24th August that hold the key to why the militant group unleashed the pre-dawn offensive against Myanmar security forces.

Hafiz Tohar set up the Aqa Mul Mujahideen (AMM) and was trained in Pakistan by the dreaded Lashkar e Tayyaba (LET) after he was recruited by Abdul Qadoos Burmi, the chief of Harkat ul Jihad al Islami -Arakan (HUJI-A) from Kyauk Pyin Siek village of Maungdaw in 2014.

He merged his group into the ARSA after it was formed in the summer of 2016 and is widely believed to be behind the deadly attacks on Myanmar security forces from October 9-10 last year and on Aug 25 this year.

Following the training of a few initial recruits of the AMM in Pakistan, new cadres were recruited from among Rohingya youth in Rakhine State and refugee camps in Bangladesh’s Cox’s Bazaar.

They were then trained in camps set up on the Bangladesh-Myanmar border, specially one at Naikhongcherri in the Chittagong Hill Tracts of Bangladesh.

One "Major Salamat" of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, deputed for under cover operations with the LET,was responsible for these training during April-May 2016.

63 JMB activists from Bangladesh responsible for the suicide bombings in that country and 88 ARSA activists were trained in the Naikhongcherri base in April-May 2016, according to information revealed by two top JMB activists when interrogated by Bangladesh intelligence.

This base was recently raided by the Bangladesh army, and six JMB rebels were captured. During interrogation, they confirmed information about this base and the joint JMB-ARSA training stint conducted by ISI that Bangladesh intelligence had garnered from top JMB leader Abul Kashem.

Kashem's information led to the raid on this hideout three months ago.

They found contact numbers of one "Brigadier Ashfaq' and of 'Major Salamat' of ISI and one ISIS recruiter in Iraq.

Bangladesh intelligence put these numbers on surveillance and also passed their numbers to Indian R&AW external intelligence agency which has superb Signals Intelligence capabilities with a regional reach.

Ashfaq is said to be the office in charge of ISI's eastern operations, and he had recently met BNP leader and former PM Khaleda Zia and her son Tarique in London.

Bangladesh media, quoting their intelligence sources, had reported that the ISI officer and Begum Zia discussed ways to bring down the Hasina government in Dhaka and boost the Rohingya insurgency in Rakhine, for which support of the BNP-Jamaat e Islami was needed because ruling Awami League is not sympathetic to Rohingyas.

On 23 August at 11.32am Bangladesh time, there was a call from Ashfaq's number to a Bangladesh Grameenphone mobile used by Hafiz Tohar. The call lasted 37 minutes, and Ashfaq told hafiz that ARSA has to hit multiple targets within the next 48 hours. Tohar said though his squads were in a position to strike, suggesting long planning and mobilisation, it would not be possible to strike the multiple targets before midnight of 24th August.

Indian intelligence also intercepted this call and could fully break the coded language that Bangladesh intelligence had not been able to decipher fully.

"Kala Admi report detehi hamla ho," said Ashfaq and Zohar replied :" Ji Janaab , jo hukum , par 24 rat se pahle nahi hoga."

"Kala Admi" or " Black Man" is surely Kofi Annan and the ISI officer was asking for the attacks to be launched immediately after Annan submitted his report.

Tohar agreed but said it would not be possible before midnight of 24th Aug. Tohar speaks clear Urdu due to his long stay in Pakistan.

The second call came on 24th Aug at 2.13pm Bangladesh time and lasted for 28 minutes.

Ashfaq asked when 'Kala Admi" (Annan) is making his report public. Tohar said 3pm , just a few minutes from now.

Ashfaq pleaded for launching the attacks as quickly as possible, soon after dark.

Tohar said ' runners' have been sent to all the ARSA squads with instructions to launch the attacks at midnight.

"Der kyon kar rahe ho," (why so late) asked an agitated Ashfaq.

"Message paunchaneme time lagta hai Sir", (Takes time to reach the message ), Tohar insisted.

Obviously, ARSA was sending the message through physical runners in person, maintaining a total radio silence for fear of detection.

At 6.02 pm came a call from an Iraq number with someone introducing himself as "Al-Amin of Daesh" on the line to Tohar.

The call was shorter than the Ashfaq-Tohar calls, lasting under 14 minutes.

The ISIS wished ARSA the best in its jihad against the Burmese colonialists, Buddhist and Hindu fanatics.

These three calls simultaneously intercepted by Bangladesh and Indian intelligence makes it clear ARSA and their backers (ISIS and ISI) were determined to cause problems for the Aung San Suu Kyi government which had committed to set up an inter-ministerial committee to implement the recommendations made by Kofi Annan-led Rakhine Commission.

It is nor clear whether Bangladesh or India raised a red flag with Myanmar to warn them of an impending attack.

Perhaps the absence of an intelligence sharing mechanism did not enable the transfer.

" After ISIS's huge failures in the Middle East in the face of Russian and US-led Western military action, there is a clear attempt to create a new theatre of jihad where the narrative of torture and human rights violations reinforced by heavy handed Burmese action can unsettle the Sheikh Hasina regime and destabilise India's east," said a top Indian intelligence official in Yangon before PM Modi's visit to review security arrangements.

"That will divert Indian military attention from Kashmir and Bangladesh from its battle against JMB and other jihadis. This is a clear Pakistani ploy."

That would explain why India and Bangladesh, mindful of their own security threats, have not bought into the narrative of 'genocide' as some in the West and many in the Islamic World have.

"The ARSA is determined to thwart Daw Suu Kyi's good intentions to implement the Kofi Annan report. They want to brutalise the discourse in Rakhine and help re-militarise the area so that the narrative of torture and extra-judicial killings help them boost the level of jihad and find recruits," said a top Bangladesh intelligence official.


periaswamy
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 51
Joined: 07 Jul 2017 20:50

Re: The Rohingya Menace

Postby periaswamy » 12 Sep 2017 11:17

negi, the rohingyas are ripe for being influenced by the jihadis, which is exactly why the Indian govt. is explicitly stating that it has no obligation to provide refuge to the rohingyas. I suggest you go read up on how India had a tough time controlling the militias when they had sanctuary in Myanmar and the Myanmar govt. refused to cooperate in taking down these anti-India militia -- this was less than 10-15 years ago. Sustained engagement has turned the situation around for India, to the point where the kaladan project (whenever the Indian govt. actually manages to finish and operationalize) and other joint projects improve the connectivity and trade between NE states and the rest of India, bypassing the Chicken's neck bottleneck.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], SSharma and 31 guests