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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby vijaykarthik » 06 Dec 2017 15:24

^ Another 20-30 years and India will mention that they are looking upto China to learn a lot about Buddhism and the ideas of non-violence and Dharma.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Bart S » 06 Dec 2017 17:55

SSridhar wrote:[url=http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/china-india-vow-to-protect-globalisation/article21270028.ece]China,
He said Chinese investment in manufacturing could generate large-scale employment in India. Besides, India could benefit from Chinese experience gained from innovation-based “fourth industrial revolution” that focussed on advanced robotics, artificial intelligence, electric vehicles and internet-of-things. {It is a shame that an India that had a huge lead over China in Computing could not formulate policies and implement them to thrust the country into the forefront in AI, Robotics & IoT. Today, we want to learn from China!} India could learn from China’s rich experience in developing infrastructure.

The two sides also discussed the latest innovations in electric vehicles, clean energy, higher education and Special Economic Zones.


Coming from the chairman of the NITI Ayog, this is absolutely pathetic. It indicates that the govt has given up on the idea of even competing with China on those areas (most of which we are eminently capable of competing with and beating them at!).

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby NRao » 06 Dec 2017 20:22

Bart S wrote:
SSridhar wrote:[url=http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/china-india-vow-to-protect-globalisation/article21270028.ece]China,
He said Chinese investment in manufacturing could generate large-scale employment in India. Besides, India could benefit from Chinese experience gained from innovation-based “fourth industrial revolution” that focussed on advanced robotics, artificial intelligence, electric vehicles and internet-of-things. {It is a shame that an India that had a huge lead over China in Computing could not formulate policies and implement them to thrust the country into the forefront in AI, Robotics & IoT. Today, we want to learn from China!} India could learn from China’s rich experience in developing infrastructure.

The two sides also discussed the latest innovations in electric vehicles, clean energy, higher education and Special Economic Zones.


Coming from the chairman of the NITI Ayog, this is absolutely pathetic. It indicates that the govt has given up on the idea of even competing with China on those areas (most of which we are eminently capable of competing with and beating them at!).


Very unfortunately the Chairman - at least in those areas - is right.

What is unnerving about China is that she is the only country that has a national vision on these matters and as a result has a coordinated effort. Their stated goal is to *dominate* (in these four areas). And they are putting their money where their mouth is - funding like no one else. China has attracted some of the best researchers from the West and provided them with absolutely top notch labs. All they need to do now is to scale up.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 07 Dec 2017 07:36

^I agree.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby brvarsh » 07 Dec 2017 08:03

North Korea could be India's best card to play against China. Its an open secret who is behind North Korea and surreptitiously helping them. Even today's news has China saying they will support NK in any war. What is our secretaries and embassies doing? This is an open opportunity.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Pulikeshi » 07 Dec 2017 08:48

SSridhar wrote:China, India vow to protect globalisation - Atul Aneja, The Hindu

He said Chinese investment in manufacturing could generate large-scale employment in India. Besides, India could benefit from Chinese experience gained from innovation-based “fourth industrial revolution” that focussed on advanced robotics, artificial intelligence, electric vehicles and internet-of-things. {It is a shame that an India that had a huge lead over China in Computing could not formulate policies and implement them to thrust the country into the forefront in AI, Robotics & IoT. Today, we want to learn from China!} India could learn from China’s rich experience in developing infrastructure.


Not sure where China leads. AI and Robotics have a tendency to do away with jobs and Manufacturing and IoT are increasingly software driven.
These machinations and stategyms by China continue to baffle the naive if anything! :eek: :mrgreen:

As far as Niti Ayog - seems like fluffery - what deals have been signed or have a potential to be with what Chinese companies in these areas?
I think India is also working on a peaceful Asia if not world with China - there India does indeed have a lot to learn from China! :mrgreen:
</sarc never off>

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Arjun » 07 Dec 2017 09:01

Completely agree with Bart, N Rao & Sridhar.

The lack of vision from the Indian end, especially over the last 2 years - in AI, IoT, drones and the like has been truly pathetic. China is today regarded pretty much as on par with or perhaps even ahead of the US in AI...India is hardly perceived as a front-runner in the AI race. Leave alone the US, China - even Russia, Israel, Canada, Europe may be ahead of India.

The one significant comment from Indian government Luddites in the interim has been that it will never allow self-driven cars on Indian roads !

From being regarded as a leader in Software to this state of affairs is a HUGE, HUGE fall :roll:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Bart S » 07 Dec 2017 11:51

Arjun wrote:From being regarded as a leader in Software to this state of affairs is a HUGE, HUGE fall :roll:


To be fair though, we were never a leader in software, except in the eyes of DDM type morons and our own delusions. We were a leader in software services outsourcing, i.e basically bodyshopping and labour arbitrage. I say were, because with cloud and automation that sector is shrinking rapidly in relevance.

Whereas China focussed on IPR generating product development efforts which resulted in the likes of Huawei, who alone spend upwards of $10B on R&D every year.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Arjun » 07 Dec 2017 13:39

India has been and still is the global leader in software services....and that market is not going to crash but will continue to chug along though not at the high growth rates of the past. In fact, even in AI - India perhaps has the largest number of sheer people working on that front - all for the benefit of the US and even Chinese firms that are setting up their own shop to attract talent in India.

In the mid 2000s India seemed to have the potential to be at least a #2 in software (as opposed to software services) behind the US. Unfortunately that has been belied.

While there were other reasons, one reason was certainly the Chinese policy of proactively keeping the US internet giants out of China and in developing their own sector.

While earlier one could have stated that India seemed to have the intent to be a leader in software - with the current government I am not even sensing that they have the intent. There are so many morons in India who think India will become a 'vishwaguru' and soft power leader on the back of some silly films of stars dancing around trees...when the reality is that all the soft power as well as hard power will accrue to whichever country shows leadership in science and technology !!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 07 Dec 2017 14:59

I wrote shortly after Xi’s long-winded speech that the most dangerous part of his reign would be his stated focus on technology and science.

Cheen is a giant sized Singapore — an one party dictatorial state with the benefit of deadly competitive, hyper-aggressive private sector.

Money, protection and direction from the dictator’s government but a churning, frothing, dog-eat-dog business sector to drive innovation. Look at their cellphone and telecom companies as cues. Look at their drones both civilian and military. Their e-commerce companies.

Also we are reaching a stage where the most disruptive trends in science and technology such as exa-scale supercomputing, quantum communications, hypersonics, etc. require such long lead time and investment that only the most focused governments with printing presses can make a go at them.
Last edited by chola on 07 Dec 2017 15:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 07 Dec 2017 15:06

chola wrote: hyper-aggressive private sector.

dictator’s government

Both these assessments are wrong.

1.There's no private sector in China.

2. It's not dictatorship type of govt in China.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 07 Dec 2017 15:18

TKiran wrote:
chola wrote: hyper-aggressive private sector.

dictator’s government

Both these assessments are wrong.

1.There's no private sector in China.

2. It's not dictatorship type of govt in China.


Call it what you want. The Alibaba, Xiaomei, etc. are not commie-style SOEs. Their whole export machine is dependent on millions of private entrepreneurs occupying the entire lengths of value chains.

Without this non-state “private” sector, Cheen’s impact on trade would have been the same as the USSR’s.

As far as a dictatorship is concerned, it is the same as Singapore version not North Korea’s. But it is most definitely a dictatorship.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Arjun » 07 Dec 2017 15:22

chola wrote: But it is most definitely a dictatorship.

And it seems to be meritocratic....so a meritocratic dictatorship, then ?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 07 Dec 2017 15:32

Arjun wrote:
chola wrote: But it is most definitely a dictatorship.

And it seems to be meritocratic....so a meritocratic dictatorship, then ?


I think so.


This is not something special to the PRC chinis.

This is par for course among chini-types.

Singapore. SoKo. Taiwan. And Japan. All meritocracies headed by strongmen ruling over single parties especially in their early stages when they had their most explosive growth.

Unlike Africa or South America or Bharat, these strongmen filled their gormints with babus who bridged the gap with the developed West within two generations. So meritocracy is an appropriate term.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 07 Dec 2017 16:09

^^^you may wanna call it private sector with Chinese characteristics...

In private sector the motive is "profit", and there ends the motive. But Chinese enterprises are beyond profit motive. They want technology, beg borrow or steal, doesn't matter. For example if a multinational company comes to India and says I am interested in 'make in India", I will give this much of cut to you, the Indian companies will take the offer and would try to maximize the profits, but in China, there will be a party guy sitting in the board with a multiple agendas for stealing the technology. His objective is not profit, though it is one of the several aims. That is called "pvt sector with Chinese characteristics".

As far as the government is concerned, emperor Xi is a visionary face to a revisionist state. This is called as "communism with Chinese characteristics". People spend decades to understand China trying to compare China govt with the known types of governance around the world. It's different. It's called "Chinese characteristics". It's entirely different to what happens around the world. If you understand "Chinese characteristics" you understand China. Otherwise you will always come to wrong conclusions, wrong assessments and wrong policies and finally accuse China "they didn't play by the rules". It's all your own understanding of rules which is wrong.

For example, there's no judiciary in China., If you accuse China "it's blatant violation of international law to occupy shoals in Philippines waters", you are naieve. But if you know that in China the law is "HAATH MEIN PAISA CH00TH MEIN L@VD@ " then you also would have occupied shoals with US help and shown a middle finger to them. That is the difference. Still Philippines can start construction of artificial islands, but it's easy to accuse China, than to do some work on the ground err sea...

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Chandragupta » 07 Dec 2017 16:39

We are numero uno body shop providers & service providers. Not a single world beating software product ever came from India in the last 2 decades. The less said about hardware the better. Chinese have better software / embedded system capabilities than us. Wechat/Alibaba/Baidu etc they have better indigenous platforms than us, by a long long shot. We have zilch.

I work in electronics/IoT/smart devices and the sheer capabilities of the Chinese are atleast 20-25 years ahead of India's. No policy, no plans, no foresight just bumbling ahead like headless chickens.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Singha » 07 Dec 2017 16:53

this is relevant to the developments in AI in Cheen
they are strongly competitive at top level it seems and their market size and data bank is huge too.
the others who can compete like the US giants are walled off.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/busi ... v=top-news

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 07 Dec 2017 17:45

India clarifies on UAV crash as China protests ‘violation of airspace’ - The Hindu
An Indian Army UAV that crashed into the Chinese side of the border was on a regular training mission and lost contact with ground control due to technical problem, the Ministry of Defence said in New Delhi in a statement. It also claimed that “as per standard protocol, the Indian border security personnel immediately alerted their Chinese counterparts to locate the UAV”.

The Indian clarification came in the wake of China’s Defence Ministry accusing India of violating its airspace. “The Indian move violated China's territorial sovereignty. We strongly express our dissatisfaction and opposition," the deputy director of the Chinese Army’s western theatre combat bureau, Zhang Shuili, said in a statement.

In response, the Indian side said, “An Indian UAV which was on a regular training mission inside the Indian territory lost contact with the ground control due to some technical problem and crossed over the LAC in the Sikkim Sector.”

The MOD said the Chinese side reverted with the location details of the UAV. The exact cause of the incident is under investigation.

An MOD spokesperson said, “The matter is being dealt with in accordance with the established protocols through institutional mechanisms to deal with situations along the India- China border areas.”


PTI adds:

China’s protest

Earlier, the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told a media briefing in Beijing that “an Indian Unmanned Aerial Vehicle, (UAV) invaded China’s airspace and crashed in the Sikkim section of China-India border”. He said the Chinese border troops had taken a “professional and responsible attitude” to verify the device.

“I want to point out that the Sikkim section of the China India border has been delimited,” he said, in an apparent reference to the 1890 China-British Treaty.

Mr. Geng did not spell out when the incident had taken place.

“The action of the Indian side violated China’s sovereignty and it is not conducive to the peace and tranquillity of the border area and China is dissatisfied with this and lodged solemn representation with the Indian side,” Mr. Geng said.

In its diplomatic protest to India, “China asked the Indian side to stop the activities of the devices near the border and work with China to maintain peace and tranquillity of the border areas”, he said.

Mr. Geng refused to not confirm if the incident had taken place near the Doklam, where the two countries were locked in a 73-day-long border standoff which ended on August 28.


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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby vijaykarthik » 08 Dec 2017 08:08

chola wrote:
Arjun wrote:And it seems to be meritocratic....so a meritocratic dictatorship, then ?


I think so.


This is not something special to the PRC chinis.

This is par for course among chini-types.

Singapore. SoKo. Taiwan. And Japan. All meritocracies headed by strongmen ruling over single parties especially in their early stages when they had their most explosive growth.

Unlike Africa or South America or Bharat, these strongmen filled their gormints with babus who bridged the gap with the developed West within two generations. So meritocracy is an appropriate term.


Wrong. In the case of China, they practice nuanced cyber terrorism. Its not without reason that execs of big companies take a disposable laptop with them when they travel to China (so they can discard it immediately after). China cheats. As simple as that. That can under no definition be called meritocracy. Its laughable to call it meritocracy, by any standard.
In the case of Japan, they haven't been able to have a strong govt till Abe came in. They had a lot of shaky govts for more than a decade and a half.

And as multiple people have mentioned before, nothing China has been doing is stellar or ground breaking. Countries earlier have tried to do the exact same thing and they haven't been successful - large powers like US or Japan. Even Germany, albeit at a much lesser level. They have a lot more brain power than China can ever produce and if they havent been successful, its a given that China will have a lot more trouble than the rest of them. Particularly when most of the things they have done or are trying to do currently are a mimic of what the earlier countries, at their respective earlier stages, had done.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Pulikeshi » 08 Dec 2017 08:19

Singha wrote:this is relevant to the developments in AI in Cheen
they are strongly competitive at top level it seems and their market size and data bank is huge too.
the others who can compete like the US giants are walled off.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/busi ... v=top-news


Good article, but - How does one productize spying on ones own citizens?

Maybe there could be a different model: http://indiastack.org/ But it is too janky onlee no?
(Seriously do read up on the blogs... there is tons of good work going on...)

But, back to Rhona Dhona - India is doomed onlee as they have not graduated from being cyber coolies!
If only India spied on her citizens and collected massive amounts of data and did AI it could be productized by someone somehow! :mrgreen:
</sarc never off>

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby vijaykarthik » 08 Dec 2017 17:01

China’s embassy in Islamabad has warned Chinese organisations and citizens in Pakistan to be on alert for potential terror attacks.
SCMP TODAY: HK EDITION
The embassy said in a statement on its website on Friday it had been informed that terrorists were planning “a series of attacks soon” against Chinese.
“The embassy alerts all Chinese organisations and citizens in Pakistan to stay vigilant, safeguard personal security, reduce time spent outside and avoid going to crowded places as much as possible,” the statement said.
Chinese should cooperate with Pakistani police and military and contact the Chinese embassy if necessary, it added.
In June, Islamic State said it had killed two Chinese citizens it kidnapped.
The Pakistani interior ministry said the two Chinese had claimed to be learning the Urdu language from a Korean national in Jinnah town in Quetta but “were actually engaged in preaching”.
Quetta is the capital of Balochistan province, which is at the centre of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor – the biggest single project under Beijing’s belt and road trade and infrastructure strategy.
The project includes plans for roads, railways and gas pipelines linking China’s far west hinterland of Xinjiang to the China-operated port of Gwadar on Pakistan’s southern coast.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomac ... Isdrjuah9f

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby vijaykarthik » 08 Dec 2017 17:05


China denies making impossible demands for collapsed US$14 billion infrastructure deal with Pakistan
Beijing did not ask for ownership rights to Diamer-Bhasha dam, an unnamed official with China’s top planning agency was quoted on state media

An official with China’s top planning agency said it does not accept Pakistan’s claim that it decided to cancel a US$14 billion infrastructure deal with China because Beijing was making demands that were impossible to meet, state media reported.

The Chinese government did not ask for ownership or operation rights to the Diamer-Bhasha dam or seek to take another Pakistan dam in exchange for striking an agreement with Islamabad, the state-run Xinhua news agency on Thursday quoted an unnamed official with the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) as saying.

The conditions “did not exist”, the official was quoted. “The recent reports on Pakistani media contained factual mistakes”, “or they only reflected the stands of individual officials”.
Pakistani media had reported last month that the project was excluded from the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) framework because Islamabad was unable to meet China’s “strict conditions” for agreement.

The Chinese conditions were “not doable and against our interests”, Pakistan’s Express Tribune quoted Water and Power Development Authority chairman Muzammil Hussain as saying on November 14.

Hussain said the conditions centred on project ownership, operation and maintenance costs and possibly giving China operational rights to another Pakistani dam, according to the report.
The official with the NDRC, an agency under the State Council with broad administrative and planning control over the Chinese economy, was quoted as saying the two governments are still in touch regarding cooperation on the Diamer-Bhasha dam, although the facility is not part of the CPEC plan.

The official said Chinese companies had made large investments to generate profit from the Gwadar Port since taking over management rights. Gwadar Port, a deep-sea port on the Arabian Sea at Gwadar in Pakistan’s Balochistan province, is seen as vital to the US$57 billion CEPC plan and a crucial element of China’s massive trade and infrastructure undertaking, the “Belt and Road Initiative”.

The CPEC, a flagship project under the Belt and Road Initiative, is considered vital to open up trade along land and sea corridors from Asia to Africa to Europe.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies ... Isdrjuah9f

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 08 Dec 2017 17:08

Don't know much about this dam, is it on Indus upstream? Can it be used to divert water in to Tibet?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 08 Dec 2017 17:46

vijaykarthik wrote:
chola wrote:
I think so.


This is not something special to the PRC chinis.

This is par for course among chini-types.

Singapore. SoKo. Taiwan. And Japan. All meritocracies headed by strongmen ruling over single parties especially in their early stages when they had their most explosive growth.

Unlike Africa or South America or Bharat, these strongmen filled their gormints with babus who bridged the gap with the developed West within two generations. So meritocracy is an appropriate term.


Wrong. In the case of China, they practice nuanced cyber terrorism. Its not without reason that execs of big companies take a disposable laptop with them when they travel to China (so they can discard it immediately after). China cheats. As simple as that. That can under no definition be called meritocracy. Its laughable to call it meritocracy, by any standard.
In the case of Japan, they haven't been able to have a strong govt till Abe came in. They had a lot of shaky govts for more than a decade and a half.

And as multiple people have mentioned before, nothing China has been doing is stellar or ground breaking. Countries earlier have tried to do the exact same thing and they haven't been successful - large powers like US or Japan. Even Germany, albeit at a much lesser level. They have a lot more brain power than China can ever produce and if they havent been successful, its a given that China will have a lot more trouble than the rest of them. Particularly when most of the things they have done or are trying to do currently are a mimic of what the earlier countries, at their respective earlier stages, had done.


The PRC is most definitely a damn meritocracy when you need to use the world’s sole Super Power and the two most technically advanced and efficient states to find fault with it.

What makes you think creating an system of cheats is simple and doesn’t require the best to fill out their babudom? And no it is not new, the Japs, Koreans and Taiwanese cheated in the same way before they pulled ahead and become independent with their own designs.

The very fact that execs of big companies feel that they must be in Cheen in spite of all the risks of espionage is the greatest proof of a meritocracy in the PRC. Why the hell would the MNCs bother even being in Cheen? Oh there is a goddam market greater than even the US for everything from cars to baby formula.

That giant market cannot appear without a system of babus that rose on merit.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 08 Dec 2017 18:27

Meritocracy has played an important role in Imperial China for a long time, even during the brief Republican period after the last Qing emperor was thrown out early last century and during much of Communist rule thereafter. Most certainly in Xi Jinping's first term and there is no reason to doubt it after the 19th Congress.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 08 Dec 2017 18:35

Udangudi project: HC rejects [Chinese] consortium’s plea - The Hindu

The following is a likely normal reaction by a consortium that lost a mega bid. But, this litigation put the project back by two years already. If the Chinese take the matter to the SC, God knows how many more years might be lost. Knowing the holistic approach of the Chinese state against Indian interests, the Chinese could deliberately employ such tactics to arrest India's growth, with the slow Indian judicial process unwittingly helping the Chinese.

Secondly, look at the Smart Alec Chinese that the Judge has exposed in his judgement. The Chinese are focussing on and targetting BHEL.

The Madras High Court on Thursday dismissed a writ petition filed by CSEPDI-TRISHE, a consortium of Chinese State-owned company Central Southern China Electric Power Design Institute and an Indian private company Trishe Energy Infrastructure Services, seeking a direction to the Tamil Nadu Generation and Distribution Corporation (Tangedco) to award a tender to it for the 2 X 660 MW Udangudi Supercritical Thermal Power Project.

Rejecting the petition pending in the court since 2015, Justice K. Ravichandrabaabu permitted Tangedco to go ahead with the process and award the tender to Bharat Heavy Electrical Limited (BHEL).

He, however, refused to award compensatory costs to Tangedco, since the petitioner consortium had approached the court immediately after the tender was floated in 2015 and the process could not be finalised only because of interim orders passed by the court.

Holding that Tangedco had rightly rejected petitioner’s bid, the judge said: “It is evident that the petitioner (consortium) have not conducted themselves fairly and strictly in accordance with the terms and conditions of the tender more particularly by not complying with furnishing of mandatory requirements/details in Cover B. Instead, it is evident that the petitioner had furnished vital information only by way of supplementary bid after opening of the Cover A of both parties.

“Therefore, this court finds that the petitioner has certainly played an unfair game with hidden agenda... It is also evident that the petitioner wanted to know the other side story first before ever they could tell their story so as to enable them to alter their story in order to suit the requirement of the Tangedco. Therefore, I find that the decision to reject the petitioner’s tender was rightly taken by the respondent Corporation with which I find no mala fide, illegality, arbitrariness or unreasonableness,” the judge said.


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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 09 Dec 2017 14:36

Australian security agency flags politicians with ties to China intelligence - Straits Times
The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) has identified about 10 political candidates at state and local government elections whom it believes have close ties to Chinese intelligence services.

According to The Australian, these candidates are seen by security officials as a deliberate strategy by Beijing to wield influence through Australian politics.


These details, disclosed in the newspaper's weekend edition on Saturday (Dec 9), have emerged after Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull unveiled new anti-interference laws on Tuesday (Dec 5) where he expressly referred to concerns about China's influence.

China has insisted it has no plans to interfere in Australian domestic affairs, after Canberra announced laws to curb espionage and ban foreign political donations.

Most of those whom security services identified as having close ties to Chinese intelligence services and the Communist Party were candidates at local government elections, reported The Weekend Australian, but concerns have been raised about state and federal figures as well.

At least one of those candidates is believed to be in elected office today. His relationship with the Chinese security services is alleged to have been cultivated before he was elected.

According to the newspaper, Australian intelligence believes the cultivation of political candidates is part of an orchestrated campaign by Beijing to insert agents of influence into Australian parliaments. The extent of China's influence was described to the newspaper as being "patchy but deep".

The focus in recent months has been on alleged attempts by China to interfere in Australian politics and universities, particularly in in western Sydney, where parties vie for the support of ethnic constituencies.

In its annual report this year, ASIO said it had "identified foreign powers clandestinely seeking to shape the opinions of members of the Australian public, media organisations and government officials in order to advance their country's own political objectives.

"Ethnic and religious communities in Australia were also the subject of covert influence operations designed to diminish their criticism of foreign governments.

"These activities - undertaken covertly to obscure the role of foreign government - represent a threat to our sovereignty, the integrity of our national institutions and the exercise of our citizens' rights."

Mr Turnbull has stressed that the new anti-interference laws were not aimed at a single country.

"Foreign powers are making unprecedented and increasingly sophisticated attempts to influence the political process, both here and abroad," he said on Tuesday.

Beijing has strongly rejected allegations of its meddling, dismissing them on Wednesday as fabricated news stories which "reflected a typical anti-China hysteria and paranoid (sic)."


Just imagine how many such agents of influence would be in in India with millions of communist comrades whose top leadership just recently went to Beijing after the 19th congress to understand Comrade Xi Jinpings 'Chinese Characteristics' in communism ! Then, there are plenty of left-leaning media houses, so called left-liberal-seculars-intelligentsia et al?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kit » 09 Dec 2017 17:09

SSridhar wrote:Australian security agency flags politicians with ties to China intelligence - Straits Times
The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) has identified about 10 political candidates at state and local government elections whom it believes have close ties to Chinese intelligence services.

According to The Australian, these candidates are seen by security officials as a deliberate strategy by Beijing to wield influence through Australian politics.


These details, disclosed in the newspaper's weekend edition on Saturday (Dec 9), have emerged after Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull unveiled new anti-interference laws on Tuesday (Dec 5) where he expressly referred to concerns about China's influence.

China has insisted it has no plans to interfere in Australian domestic affairs, after Canberra announced laws to curb espionage and ban foreign political donations.

Most of those whom security services identified as having close ties to Chinese intelligence services and the Communist Party were candidates at local government elections, reported The Weekend Australian, but concerns have been raised about state and federal figures as well.

At least one of those candidates is believed to be in elected office today. His relationship with the Chinese security services is alleged to have been cultivated before he was elected.

According to the newspaper, Australian intelligence believes the cultivation of political candidates is part of an orchestrated campaign by Beijing to insert agents of influence into Australian parliaments. The extent of China's influence was described to the newspaper as being "patchy but deep".

The focus in recent months has been on alleged attempts by China to interfere in Australian politics and universities, particularly in in western Sydney, where parties vie for the support of ethnic constituencies.

In its annual report this year, ASIO said it had "identified foreign powers clandestinely seeking to shape the opinions of members of the Australian public, media organisations and government officials in order to advance their country's own political objectives.

"Ethnic and religious communities in Australia were also the subject of covert influence operations designed to diminish their criticism of foreign governments.

"These activities - undertaken covertly to obscure the role of foreign government - represent a threat to our sovereignty, the integrity of our national institutions and the exercise of our citizens' rights."

Mr Turnbull has stressed that the new anti-interference laws were not aimed at a single country.

"Foreign powers are making unprecedented and increasingly sophisticated attempts to influence the political process, both here and abroad," he said on Tuesday.

Beijing has strongly rejected allegations of its meddling, dismissing them on Wednesday as fabricated news stories which "reflected a typical anti-China hysteria and paranoid (sic)."


Just imagine how many such agents of influence would be in in India with millions of communist comrades whose top leadership just recently went to Beijing after the 19th congress to understand Comrade Xi Jinpings 'Chinese Characteristics' in communism ! Then, there are plenty of left-leaning media houses, so called left-liberal-seculars-intelligentsia et al?


I know of one particular very high ranking communist politician from kerala who makes almost every other weekend trips to Dubai to cultivate his "assets" ..same for quite a few of their ilk and the congi party .. money transfers are involved and off shore havens .. take money from every tom dick and harry and promise the moon

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 09 Dec 2017 20:10

India’s growing soft power in China - Atul Aneja, The Hindu
The India-China soft power embrace, evident from the runaway success of Aamir Khan’s Dangal, appears to be getting warmer. On a cold November evening, when even hardy Beijingers were considering the wisdom of staying at home, hundreds of Chinese headed for Future theatre, one of the emerging cultural hubs in the city.

They were attracted by the prospects of a joint on-stage dance and musical performance by Indian and Chinese artistes. Rukmini Chatterjee, the veteran choreographer and dancer, was marshalling the performance from the Indian side. She was joined by the Chinese contemporary choreographer Aimin Teng. The storyline of Shiv Yin was deceptively simple: the triumph of love over barriers of anger, jealousy and even violence. But it was the mediation of the storyline with classical Indian dance forms — Kathak and Bharatnatyam — and Chinese contemporary dance finesse that infused soul into the performance. Both the young Indian artistes — Kathak dancer Kantika Mishra and Bharatanatyam performer Souraja Tagore — held their ground in front of a predominantly foreign audience.

The fluidity, energy and masculine elegance of the Chinese artistes — Chen Xin, Chen Xiuzhuang, Jia Tianyu and others — belonging to The Beijing City Contemporary Dance Company, blended easily with the feminine grace of the Indian performers. “I don’t think I will call Shiv Yin a manifestation of artistic fusion,” said Ms. Chatterjee in a conversation with The Hindu. “While there are similarities between our artistic heritages, there are also stark distinctions. We, therefore, have two distinct styles — Indian and Chinese — in dialogue with each other rather than in fusion.”

Artistic communication

Nevertheless, the choreographer, who spent 27 years in Paris before moving into India, is all for a pervasive Indian and Chinese artistic communication in the future. “I learnt from my stay in China so far that the spiritual and philosophical content of the Indian artistic tradition is apparently stronger. But the contemporary Chinese performers have a much better grasp of the physicality of their art, probably because of a powerful martial arts background. We need to learn from that.”

At a deeper lever, the storyline of Shiv Yin flirted with the Taoist philosophical concept of Yin and Yang. In doing so, the performance echoed the core of the Yin and Yang principle. In Taoist tradition, Yin and Yang describe the interconnectedness and interdependence of seemingly opposite or contrary forces, as the basis of creation.

After an outing to the coastal city of Fuzhou, the artistes from the two countries now travel to India, where performances at the Serendipity festival in Goa, Ahmedabad and Delhi are slated later this month
. Shiv Yin, in drawing Chinese audiences, may have benefited by the mega-success of Dangal, which has generated much interest and attuned young people to India’s fascinating if not turbulent transition.

Among other undertakings which have kept India’s soft-power push alive, yoga, arguably, continues to remain on top of the tree. In fact, China’s Minzu University, headquartered in Kunming, has now begun to offer the country’s first master’s degree in yoga. The three-year course will include two years of study in China and a final year in India. Classes will be detailed, covering lessons on yoga asanas, yoga physiology, yoga anatomy, yoga therapy and meridian theory, so central to acupuncture in traditional Chinese medicine.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 09 Dec 2017 20:13

Sri Lanka formally hands over Hambantota port on 99-year lease to China - PTI
Sri Lanka on Saturday formally handed over the strategic southern port of Hambantota to China on a 99-year lease, in a deal dubbed by the opposition and trade unions as “a sell-out.”

The government’s grant of large tax concessions to Chinese firms have also been questioned by the Opposition.


Two Chinese firms — Hambantota International Port Group (HIPG) and Hambantota International Port Services (HIPS) — managed by the China Merchants Port Holdings Company (CMPort) and the Sri Lanka Ports Authority will own the port and the investment zone around it, officials said.

Prime Minister Ranil Wickremesinghe during a visit to China in April had agreed to swap equity in Chinese infrastructure projects launched by former president Mahinda Rajapaksa in his home district.

Sri Lanka owed China $8 billion, then Finance Minister Ravi Karunanayake had said last year.

‘To be major port in Indian Ocean’

“With this agreement we have started to pay back the loans. Hambantota will be converted to a major port in the Indian Ocean,” Mr. Wickremesinghe said while addressing the handing over ceremony held in parliament.

“There will be an economic zone and industrialisation in the area which will lead to economic development and promote tourism,” the Prime Minister said.

The Sri Lankan government had signed a $1.1 billion deal in July to sell a 70 per cent stake in the Hambantota port to China.

Sri Lanka received $300 million as the initial payment under the 99-year lease agreement.

The port, overlooking the Indian Ocean, is expected to play a key role in China’s Belt and Road initiative
, which will link ports and roads between China and Europe.

'Will not be used as a military base'


In order to allay India’s security concerns over the Chinese navy’s presence in Sri Lanka, Mr. Wickremesinghe had earlier ruled out the possibility of the strategic port being used as a “military base” by any foreign country.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby NRao » 09 Dec 2017 22:11

'Will not be used as a military base'

In order to allay India’s security concerns over the Chinese navy’s presence in Sri Lanka, Mr. Wickremesinghe had earlier ruled out the possibility of the strategic port being used as a “military base” by any foreign country.


* Forget "a military base", no military asset should ever visit this port


* India needs to ensure Indian goods does not use this facility. It would be nice if India could build a better facility on both the coasts

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 10 Dec 2017 08:39

Centre to take up Brahmaputra issue with China - ANI
Assam Chief Minister Sarbananda Sonowal on Friday said the Centre would take up the Brahmaputra contamination issue with China. The governments of Assam and Arunachal Pradesh suspect that China’s dam building activities could be a reason for the pollution.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 10 Dec 2017 08:49

‘Army acted fast in Doklam’ - The Hindu
When the confrontation with Chinese troops at Doklam started earlier this year, a Brigade Commander walked across and warned Chinese troops to move back, says Lieutenant-General Praveen Bakshi (retd.), who as the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Army Command, was responsible for operations in the region when the two sides engaged in the prolonged standoff.

Only his sahayak accompanied the Brigadier as he walked across to the Chinese side to caution them from coming forward, Gen. Bakshi said
at the Military Literature Festival organised by the Punjab government in Chandigarh on Friday.

The standoff began on June 16 when the Chinese troops entered the tri-junction of India, China and Bhutan to construct a road.

Two days later, 270-plus Indian troops with bulldozers entered the area to stop them.

The standoff ended on August 28, when both sides announced troop withdrawal.

Full autonomy

“Complete operational autonomy had been delegated to the commanders on ground and we were geared up for a long haul,” said Gen. Bakshi, who was overlooked for the post of the Chief of the Army Staff by the Modi government in favour of Gen. Bipin Rawat.

“As we saw Doklam coming, additional formations had been moved to the area beforehand and the troops were well acclimatised,” he said.

Gen. Bakshi also said that the operational coordination among all the agencies was effective and well in place.

He said they assessed that the chance of an all-out war was very low, but expected a skirmish to break out or China to open another front.

‘Refused to back down’

The just-retired Lt. General said Indian troops had formed human chains and refused to back down.

During close surveillance, Indian troops picked up a few instances of the Chinese troops breaking ranks in the night.

Though the standoff formally ended, the situation on the ground has not been a real return to status quo.

The Chinese have managed to construct new bunkers and deployed soldiers in forward positions
, according to the Army.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Pulikeshi » 10 Dec 2017 11:51



China is beating the world at internet - why even US Multi-nationals are there to pay obescience to the Middle Kingdom.
All is doomed! Or that is what my pet super smart Chinese AI tells me every morning... :mrgreen:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Karthik S » 10 Dec 2017 15:21

Any idea how we'll need to tackle PLA Navy ships and subs operating out of Hambantota port in SL? The cheen are going to be there for next 99 years. Can we do a cuba or another doklam on them there if we see naval vessels anchored there.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SriKumar » 10 Dec 2017 15:42

I think officially there might be some clause in there SL-China deal that navy vessels cannot dock. But obviously, all those things would not mean much to China govt and they'll likely try something. Most likely scenario as to how this would come about is what they did while filling up the islands in their eastern seaboard. Some worker on some island had a 'medical emergency' and they were 'forced' to land a military aircraft on the newly created runway to evacuate, for 'humanitarian' reasons. I expect something like this here.....some naval vessel will declare an emergency and say they _have_ to dock at the closest port. Which would conveniently be Hambantota.

The one option here I think is (if the SL govt cooperates) would be that such emergencies would be automatically diverted to some other port nearby, or, have a helicopter evacuation. Ultimately, it all comes down to whether the SL govt acknowledges Indian sensitivities....or not (in which case, plan B has to be put in place). Bottomline is a naval ship being supplied during a war makes the supply base a part of that war effort. I dont know the legalities of such situations but in some cases, that would make the supply base a legitimate target. So in an actual war, things might be more clearer and less confused (relative to a peacetime docking).
Last edited by SriKumar on 10 Dec 2017 15:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SriKumar » 10 Dec 2017 15:52

Pulikeshi wrote:[ ]xlQ1JqObs9c[/youtube]

China is beating the world at internet - why even US Multi-nationals are there to pay obescience to the Middle Kingdom.
All is doomed! Or that is what my pet super smart Chinese AI tells me every morning... :mrgreen:
Good find....the comment at 3:54 is very telling. The anchor says '.....as everyone knows, the internet has been a part of Chinese territory since ancient times..'. :mrgreen:

Now where did I hear that before? Tibet, Dokalam, Mongolia, Diaoyutai/Senkaku islands, the north Natuna Sea, South China/Indo-China sea etc. etc. China might as well save everyone the trouble and declare the all countries of the world has belong to China since ancient times.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 10 Dec 2017 16:25

SriKumar wrote:China might as well save everyone the trouble and declare the all countries of the world has belong to China since ancient times.

That's exactly what they mean by zhongguo, Middle Kingdom.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 11 Dec 2017 07:27

In first winter stay, 1,800 Chinese troops camping at Doklam - Rajat Pandit, ToI
Around 1,600-1,800 Chinese troops have now virtually established a permanent presence in the Doklam area, near the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet trijunction, with the construction of two helipads, upgraded roads, scores of pre-fabricated huts, shelters and stores to withstand the freezing winter in the high-altitude region.

Indian security establishment sources said while India "achieved its strategic objective" of not letting China extend its existing road in Doklam (or the Dolam plateau) southwards towards the Jampheri ridge, the fallout has been "the almost permanent stationing of People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops in the region".

"Earlier, PLA patrols would come to Doklam, which is disputed between China and Bhutan, between April-May and October-November every year to mark their presence and lay claim to the area before going back," said a source.

"Now, after the 73-day eyeball-to-eyeball troop confrontation at Doklam between India and China ended on August 28, the PLA troops have stayed put in what we consider to be Bhutanese territory for the first time this winter. But the status quo prevails at the earlier face-off site," he added.

This fits in with what the Army chief, General Bipin Rawat, meant when he warned in September that China would continue with its efforts to nibble away disputed territories through "salami slicing", muscle-flexing and other measures.
With Indian troops deployed in tactically dominating positions in the trijunction region, China is keen to usurp Doklam to add strategic depth to its narrow Chumbi Valley, which juts in between Sikkim and Bhutan.

India in the past never objected to Chinese military patrols in Doklam but was forced to intervene in mid-June when PLA troops attempted to disrupt the status quo by constructing a road that would have had serious security implications for it.

Indian soldiers came down the ridge slope from their Doka La post to cross into Doklam on June 18 to physically block Chinese troops from constructing the road towards Jampheri ridge, which overlooks India's militarily vulnerable Siliguri corridor, or the so-called "Chicken's Neck" area.

It triggered the face-off at Doklam, leading both the countries to move forward additional infantry battalions as well as armoured, artillery, missile and air defence units to back their small number of troops on the actual stand-off site, as was then reported by TOI. The volatile situation was finally defused on August 28 after hectic diplomatic parleys, with the rival troops disengaging and pulling back over 150 metres from the faceoff site. It paved the way for PM Narendra Modi to attend the Brics summit in Xiamen, China, from September 3 to 5.

Since then, there has been relative calm at the face-off site in Doklam, with the rival troops separated by a distance of well over 500 metres, but both India and China continue to maintain stepped-up force levels along the Line of Actual Control. Apart from constructing accommodation for troops and helipads, China has also upgraded its existing motorable road in Doklam around 10 km north and east of the earlier face-off site. "But the PLA has not undertaken any fresh road construction activity southwards towards the Jampheri ridge," said a source.

Chinese President Xi Jinping further consolidated his power through the 19th congress of the Chinese Communist Party in October with a second five-year term and elevation to the status of party founder Mao Zedong and his successor, Deng Xiaoping. "We will have to wait and watch how things develop in the months ahead," the source added.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby NRao » 11 Dec 2017 08:14

German spy agency warns of Chinese LinkedIn espionage

China is using fake LinkedIn profiles to gather information on German officials and politicians, the German intelligence agency (BfV) has said.
The agency alleges that Chinese intelligence used the networking site to target at least 10,000 Germans, possibly to recruit them as informants.
It released a number of fake profiles allegedly used for this purpose.

BfV head Hans-Georg Maassen said the accounts show China's efforts to subvert top-level German politics.

"This is a broad-based attempt to infiltrate in particular parliaments, ministries and government agencies," he said.

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