Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 22 Mar 2018 10:42

Good news! Trump set to impose scantions and tariffs on China as it is involved in IP theft! India too should hit back strongly economically for the Chin invasion into India in every sphere.We have a $50-60B trade deficit which yhe Chins are using to boost their mil. might and threaten India with.3 cheers for Trump!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 22 Mar 2018 13:09

Xi Jinping - Emperor with Chinese Characteristics for a new Era.

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 22 Mar 2018 15:28

X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

World can learn from 'frenemies' India, China: Akbaruddin

PTI | Mar 22, 2018, 15:06 IST

WASHINGTON: India and China are "frenemies" which are working with each other despite disagreements and the world can learn from their relationship, India's top diplomat at the UN has said.

"In Hollywood there is a term, which has become quite popular. And that, I think, is called frenemies. That's what we have with China. We engaged with them, we compete with them. In some areas we work with them together and in some areas we agree to disagree and move on," India's Permanent Representative to the UN, Syed Akbaruddin, said here on Tuesday.

Responding to a question after delivering the inaugural Ambassador Howard Schaffer Memorial Lecture at the Georgetown University, the senior Indian diplomat said India has engaged with China on its development initiatives like Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) but opposed it on its Belt and Road initiative.

"Belt and Road Initiative, to me, is not a normal multilateral or plurilateral approach...We are not party to that," he said at the event organised by the Georgetown India Initiative.

India skipped China's high-profile Belt and Road Forum last year due to its sovereignty concerns over the USD 50 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), which passes through PoK.

Touted as Chinese President Xi Jinping's ambitious project, the One Belt One Road initiative focuses on improving connectivity and cooperation among Asian countries, Africa, China and Europe.

Asked about his views on India-Pakistan relationship and Islamabad raising the Kashmir issue on UN platform and seeking a plebiscite, he asserted that Pakistan has no internal support on this.

"Frankly to me, issues of India and Pakistan, the way you framed it are yesterday's problems.
This does not mean that we don't need to address them," he said, responding to a question.

"This does not mean that they are not of a serious nature. But in terms of where we look at ourselves 20 years from now or 25 years from now, we don't see these as issues of a nature which will destabilise us in fundamental ways," Akbaruddin said, adding that in the last one year not a single country joined Pakistan in raising the Kashmir issue at the UN General Assembly.

"How come, other than the 13 times, Pakistan spoke, not one other country spoke. So is this today's issue? It's clear that others are not bothered about. The world has too many other issues to focus on. India and Pakistan need to address these as neighbours," he said.

While China and India are frenemies, he said, others can learn from the relationship between the two countries.

"Perhaps what others can learn from our relationship is that despite a border that is the longest undemarcated border in world, there hasn't been casualties on that border since the last 40 years," he said.

"If our western neighbour can also look at that as a model — we agree to disagree, we try and workout, if it doesn't work, we continue to push out own interest. But the way of trying to resolve it through underhand death that by a thousand cuts is not going to help. We are a billion people. With thousand cuts, you would not reach a billion. So it's best if we reconciled to each other," he said.

Reiterating India's position on the long due expansion of the UN Security Council, he rued that the present structure does not represent the current scenario.

"If you do not provide as an opportunity to be part of the solution there are other ways that we would start finding to be contributing to a solution that may not mean something to everyone's liking. But that will inevitably happen," Akbaruddin said.

Cheers Image

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 22 Mar 2018 16:51

Peregrine wrote:"I think, is called frenemies. That's what we have with China. We engaged with them, we compete with them. In some areas we work with them together and in some areas we agree to disagree and move on," India's Permanent Representative to the UN, Syed Akbaruddin, said here on Tuesday.

IMO, China is NOT a frenemy. It is simply an enemy. It opposes us tooth & nail in every international situation where India's unilateral interests are involved. It cooperates where interests of both are pitted against a much larger combination where China alone would not be able to manage it. And, it has worked decisively to sabotage India wherever only bilateral and not international issues are involved.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ashish raval » 22 Mar 2018 17:34

China is a enemy agreed sir. There should be no misconception in bureaucracy about it. How they label is irrelevant but as long as under the hood it is treated as long term enemy it works.

We should accelerate sale of Brahmos batteries to all south china sea nations including Taiwan and never mention one China policy anywhere in bilateral engagements unless they consider one India policy.

I am really surprised that Indian government has taken kittle or no active foreign policy steps wrt China. We need to make himalayas expensive for chinese by actively infiltrating and retreating game forcing them to build infrastructure and maintain them. Need to set up powerful radars as heights to listen Chinese whispers.
Last edited by ashish raval on 22 Mar 2018 22:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby VKumar » 22 Mar 2018 18:17

Now that warm weather is approaching, things may get hotter with terrorists in JK and Chinese making noise in AP.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby shiv » 22 Mar 2018 19:21

VKumar wrote:Now that warm weather is approaching, things may get hotter with terrorists in JK and Chinese making noise in AP.

This is an interesting point and it sets me thinking. I will do some loud thinking here without the benefit of insight or further research that I must do.

Initially the warm weather will melt the snows and ice which means that ground can become slushy, snowy slopes can have avalanches and rivers run fuller - making them more difficult to ford. These may be initial hurdles. But by April-May the time is fine for infiltration on the Pakistan side. (This mush we have known since Kargil).

As regards China - from Aksai Chin to Arunachal I am less certain. Sure the weather is warmer but that also puts great stress on flying - with hot and high really coming into effect. No afternoon flights - only morning flights. In any case by afternoon the warm weather causes a mist to rise in the mountains affecting visibility and (I think) inducing vicious air currents.

By June the monsoons set in - so the time for war may be Oct-Dec.

However the Chinese could surprise us and we must be ready...

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby VKumar » 22 Mar 2018 22:51

PLA has taken over from border police. Today's news.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby shiv » 22 Mar 2018 23:00

shiv wrote:So the Chinese now have a permanent presence in Doklam where they were previously only part-time visitors? Good. Let them experience the harsh winters and high altitude sickness with no hope of any low altitude evacuation for 100s of Km. That tells me where the Communist Party cadre guiding the army will be staying.

Tadaaaaaaaa! As I had said:
http://eng.mod.gov.cn/news/2018-03/21/c ... cY.twitter
Air force sends transport aircraft to Tibet to evacuate sick soldier
The 29-year-old Captain Wang Yuan is a staff officer of an air force unit under the PLA Western Theater Command. Wang's unit has been conducting field camp training since stationed in Tibet in November 2017. In late February, Wang suffered repeated fevers. On March 2, he was rushed to the PLA Tibet Military Command General Hospital. The results of medical experts consultation showed that Wang had Type I respiratory failure, pulmonary edema, loss of lung function, cerebral edema, and severely impaired heart, liver, and kidney functions caused by adenovirus infection. The hospital issued a critical condition notice on the very day.

On the next day, approved by the air force headquarters of the PLA Western Theater Command, a Y-9 transport aircraft took off at 11:32 a.m. from an airport in western Sichuan Province and arrived at Gongga Airport in Lhasa two hours later. Soon after medical workers waiting there immediately transferred Wang Yuan onto the plane, the plane took off again and flew off to Chengdu.

The Y-9 transport aircraft arrived in Chengdu at 16:54 and Wang was rushed to a military hospital for salvage.

"I can't imagine how serious his life-threatening conditions would have developed if the patient had been sent to our hospital one night later," said Chen Zhang, an expert on respiratory diseases and the doctor in charge of Wang's case at the military hospital.



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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby rsingh » 22 Mar 2018 23:17

As I mentioned earlier, most of the officers are Hans. High altitude is a big problem for them.


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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 23 Mar 2018 00:22

^^^ That’s why you never bother with GDP and focus on sales. If you can sell your product you stay in country, if you can’t you leave.

Right now, they buy incredible amounts of cars, aircraft, food items, silicon chips/licensing and luxury goods. We’ll see how much after a few rounds of trade war with Trump.

I have to say this about the trade war. It won’t kick off with the shock and awe type of unleashing where the US hammers them with everything at the beginning to break their will. Something that Unkil is good at doing with smaller nations in war or trade dispute.

The reason is there is a palpable fear in the US biz community that the chinis will simply turn inward and block the US from the high value markets while going to Europe or SoKo/Japan. Which is why a who who’s list of the F500 is already pleading with the White House. A bit different from Japan because of the market size.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kumarn » 23 Mar 2018 08:02

And yet they run a massive trade surplus? Clearly they are not buying enough of whatever you claim they are buying Chola ji.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rudradev » 23 Mar 2018 09:07

More bending-over-backwards by the GOI to appease China.

After canceling any official involvement in the anniversary celebrations for the Dalai Lama's arrival in India... now a conference of global lawmakers on the Tibet issue, originally slated for April, has been called off too.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/g ... ssion=true

GOI seems to be calculating that, with the increased pitch of anti-China baiting by the US (most recently involving the declaration of a tariff war), China must be feeling insecure on the Pacific front... hence, this is the time to try and mend our own fences with China by giving in to all their demands. I predict GOI will be wrong about this. Our overtures will be interpreted as weakness and we will be in for a nasty surprise.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kashi » 23 Mar 2018 09:52

Rudradev wrote:Our overtures will be interpreted as weakness and we will be in for a nasty surprise.


Probably because it IS a sign of weakness and is being seen as much- from the dismayed supporters to the gleeful detractors who are smug and condescending in their articles about the "course-correction."

I ain't no tea-leaves specialist, so if some of the gurus can probably explain to this dimwit, what national interests GoI wishes to protect and enhance in appeasing China, I would be most grateful.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Arjun » 23 Mar 2018 09:59

Yeah...amidst all the ass-licking from India, China was openly passing on its anti-missile technology to Pakistan !

Very obviously, India is looking for something in particular from China at this proposed meet. Whatever it is, looks unlikely that India will get what it wants - and then we go back to regular programming. The quad alliance will likely get formalized with a clear conscience that India did try to make good with China but did not work out.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Mar 2018 10:39

Arjun wrote:Yeah...amidst all the ass-licking from India, China was openly passing on its anti-missile technology to Pakistan !

Very obviously, India is looking for something in particular from China at this proposed meet. Whatever it is, looks unlikely that India will get what it wants - and then we go back to regular programming. The quad alliance will likely get formalized with a clear conscience that India did try to make good with China but did not work out.


With due respect 4 Telescopes without radar is not ABM related, how much the Pakis put a spin on it, all it means is they can photograph some of thier missiles downrange like they have been recently been doing.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 23 Mar 2018 12:11

kumarn wrote:And yet they run a massive trade surplus? Clearly they are not buying enough of whatever you claim they are buying Chola ji.


Look at the car sales numbers for one and soybeans for another. I don’t have to claim anything. The numbers are there.

The US runs a trade deficit on unsophisticated white goods and those are subcontracted by American firms — there isn’t a single well-known chini brand despite all the imports. The US sells high value goods like aircraft and silicon chips. In both cases, the US firms pocket most of the profits. Cheen gets employment (which I don’t discount as a core benefit.)

GM sells more cars in China than the US but since those are made through jv in Cheen, they don’t count against the deficit.

The US doesn’t get to be number one by being dumb. I can tell you there is real fear that this could get out if hand. Wall Street wants pressure to open up financials and technology in Cheen but they don’t want a trade war. Qualcom controls Cheen’s cellphone chips and gains 70% of it profits there.

Trump is giving the Street 30 days to lobby him on account of Cheen before signing the tariffs into law. Trump is unpredictable enough that he’ll really do it.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 23 Mar 2018 12:16

Kashi wrote:I ain't no tea-leaves specialist, so if some of the gurus can probably explain to this dimwit, what national interests GoI wishes to protect and enhance in appeasing China, I would be most grateful.

Me, no tea-leaves expert and no guru either. Our Foreign Secretary said early this month that 'next two months' are crucial. So, we should cut him some slack. Nobody knows what is going on except what I stated already that it had better be something significant as otherwise this concession to China is unwarranted. The trouble is that we may never know, if this ends in a failure, what was even attempted.

On a side note, Gobal Times immediately, the very next day itself, welcomed the announcement from the FS and the shifting of the Tibetan meet. It said, "To play down the Tibetan separatists' celebrations and stop playing the Tibet card is a welcome step by New Delhi".

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 23 Mar 2018 12:42

Donald Trump's 'shock and awe' trade bomb on China risks a superpower conflict
AMBROSE EVANS-PRITCHARD
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... -conflict/

Hair raising though that title may be,it is v.unlikely.It goes against the Chin grain and in any case they are quite inferior in both strategic and conventional weaponry to the US. The US can simply blockade the Chin ports ,interdict its merchant fleet and "pop goes the weasel (XI Gins) "!

It is however past time for India to also impose tariffs upon chin goods as we have a devastating $50-60B trade deficit.Why the Indian Fin. Min. isn't doing anything about it is anyone's guess.Indian biz has taken huge hits thanks to demon and GST and "rewarding" the Chins would give a huge spur to our MSMEs. The media however speak of a Chin trade delegation visiting India instead even as we see further chin advancing in the Doklam region,trying to outflank Indian forces there!

The alleged statements by Nehru to GP,the late diplomat ,doyen of the service,about not trusting the Chins,must be kept in mind by the current GOI and PM,so that we don't fall for "Chinwag" yet again. "Dragon and Elephant must dance together"! What effing rot!
I fear that the servile scaredy-cat entities in the MEA with particular fear of China are like a millstone around the NDA-2's neck in our quest for a more assertive Indian foreign policy.They are "status-quo" monkeys,like the 3 celebrated ones.Or even a fourth,like the new one to the list,tapping away on his smart phone who neither sees,hears,speaks,or does anything!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kashi » 23 Mar 2018 13:05

SSridhar wrote:Me, no tea-leaves expert and no guru either. Our Foreign Secretary said early this month that 'next two months' are crucial. So, we should cut him some slack. Nobody knows what is going on except what I stated already that it had better be something significant as otherwise this concession to China is unwarranted. The trouble is that we may never know, if this ends in a failure, what was even attempted.

On a side note, Gobal Times immediately, the very next day itself, welcomed the announcement from the FS and the shifting of the Tibetan meet. It said, "To play down the Tibetan separatists' celebrations and stop playing the Tibet card is a welcome step by New Delhi".


Our FS is a China expert, he was our ambassador in Beijing till last year. So it's natural that his inputs and insights are definitely at play here. Our previous FS was an America expert and at that time GoI was going out of its way to ally with US in many ways.

I can only hope that our FSs were and are following the PMO's lead and not the other way round, else our foreign policy comes out to be too bureaucratic.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Pulikeshi » 23 Mar 2018 17:14

SSridhar wrote:Our Foreign Secretary said early this month that 'next two months' are crucial. So, we should cut him some slack. Nobody knows what is going on except what I stated already that it had better be something significant as otherwise this concession to China is unwarranted. The trouble is that we may never know, if this ends in a failure, what was even attempted.


Philip wrote: "Dragon and Elephant must dance together"! What effing rot!
I fear that the servile scaredy-cat entities in the MEA with particular fear of China are like a millstone around the NDA-2's neck in our quest for a more assertive Indian foreign policy.They are "status-quo" monkeys,like the 3 celebrated ones.Or even a fourth,like the new one to the list,tapping away on his smart phone who neither sees,hears,speaks,or does anything!


In India’s foreign policy towards neighbors China, Pakistan, etc. there is no “success” or “failure” there is only effective management of interests.
Unless India has the capacity and will to change the status of being a neighbor. So a much longer view, which GOI has historically had, is warranted. There neither be blind belief in the mandarins, nor the “hatoasmi” labeling of them who have and continue to serve India quite well.

One cynical view I have is China should not only own Tibet, but also Pakistan. The more you stretch the Han into unproductive the better.
However, seriously, India may be nudging China on cooperation along NSG, Trade and a few other areas and both sides know this is at best
a ‘friendship with benefits’ not a marriage. The timing may be opportune given the impending trade war and mistrust in US-China relationship.
The only thing India ought not to do is to compromise on BRI or OBOR - no matter what the net benefit the Chinese have to offer to India.
My two naya paisa: best not to sleep with a neighbor! :mrgreen:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 23 Mar 2018 19:06

May be... Just like Indira Gandhi tried to explain Bangladesh situation, before the decisive action... Just may be...

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 23 Mar 2018 21:59

Nobody Knows Anything About China
Including the Chinese government.
By James Palmer | March 21, 2018, 2:59 PM

^^^^^^^
What we've all known for a long time; but nice to have it succinctly summarized.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 24 Mar 2018 06:15

TKiran wrote:May be... Just like Indira Gandhi tried to explain Bangladesh situation, before the decisive action... Just may be...

TK, no, there is no war on the horizon if that's what you mean. Not by China, much less from us.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 24 Mar 2018 06:15

SSridhar wrote:
TKiran wrote:May be... Just like Indira Gandhi tried to explain Bangladesh situation, before the decisive action... Just may be...

TK, no, there is no war on the horizon if that's what you mean. Not by China, much less by us.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 24 Mar 2018 06:52

Tibet is not a card - Suhasini Haidar, The Hindu
The government’s bid to ease tensions with China has been met with some criticism, particularly over a leaked memo to officials telling them to stay away from events that commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Dalai Lama’s 1959 flight to India. This has led to the cancellation of several public events related to Tibet. Much of the criticism stems from the perception that the government is attempting to appease China by giving up its “Tibet card”. Clearly, giving in to China’s aggression on the subject is the wrong pretext to nuance its Tibet policy, and as the government has said, where the Dalai Lama goes within India is a sovereign issue. However, the bigger error may be for the government to be using Tibetan refugees in India as a card in its relations with China.

Deteriorating ties

To begin with, ties between New Delhi and Beijing have deteriorated over the past few years for a number of reasons unconnected to the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan population in India: border incursions, including the standoff at the part of Doklam claimed by Bhutan; India’s strategic shift in line with the U.S.’s Indo-Pacific pivot that targets China; China’s ‘deep-pocket’ inroads into South Asia; and differences on the international stage, including over the Nuclear Suppliers Group membership and terror designations to Masood Azhar. It would be simplistic to assume that these problems would go away if India were to make the Tibetan community and its leader less visible. Therefore, while it is a mistake to play every visit of the Dalai Lama or official meeting with the leader of the ‘Tibetan government-in-exile’, Lobsang Sangay, as a ‘challenge to China’, it is equally ridiculous to portray strictures on their activities as a ‘peace offering to Beijing’.

Second, while Indian strategists have handed down the idea of a Tibet card for decades, it is time to revise this policy with a thorough evaluation of the ground, from New Delhi to Beijing and Lhasa to Dharamshala. For starters, the landscape of Tibet, now crisscrossed with railway lines, super-speed highways, tunnels and airports, has changed drastically in the past two decades. While many have written about the Beijing-Lhasa railway line, the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) now sees many more such engineering marvels (albeit at the cost of its environment), and downtown Lhasa has all the trappings of a modern city. All of this has made Tibet more self-reliant, with more jobs for the next generation. There’s an ongoing demographic shift in Tibet, with Beijing populating areas with majority ‘Han’ Chinese workers, encouraging mixed marriages, and mainstreaming Chinese culture into the region. At the same time, the outflow of refugees from Tibet has been curtailed by the Chinese authorities over the last decade, mainly by convincing Nepal to close a popular route. As a result, the number of new arrivals from Tibet into Dharamshala is down to a trickle and the once bustling informal trade route between India and Tibet has also dried up. Bollywood DVDs, once easily available in Lhasa’s bustling markets, have been replaced by Chinese and Tibetan films.

The new reality means that India’s population of the 100,000 or so registered Tibetan refugees are more cut off from developments in their homeland than ever before. New generations of Tibetans born in India are brought up as exiles, without a real sense of what Tibet may actually be like, should they ever return. As most live separately in about 40 settlements around India, they also have a tenuous link to the host country itself. The government’s attitude towards giving them citizenship has been stern, although it lost its case in the Delhi High Court (Namgyal Dolkar v. Government of India) and must give citizenship to all Tibetan refugees born between 1950 and 1987, the cut-off year. It will be equally important to devise a mechanism for those born after 1987, many now in their twenties, living in this limbo.

The bigger question that looms over the community is that of its future leadership. During his lifetime, the Dalai Lama has been a unifying force, guiding the community through their struggle in a peaceful manner, while accepting an autonomous Tibet as a part of China. While his spiritual incarnation will be chosen through a religious process, his political successor presents a more difficult task — he or she needs to be both groomed and publicly presented to the community at the earliest. The Dalai Lama himself has retained an air of mystery on the subject, suggesting at different times that his successor may be a woman, one born in a “free” land, or there may be none at all. Another possible leader, Ogyen Trinley Dorje, recognised by the Dalai Lama as the head of the Karma Kagyu sect after he escaped to Dharamshala in 2000, has been abroad for the past year. A cryptic message from his office says he will remain in the U.S. for “rest and recovery” from undisclosed “health concerns”, with no word on when he may return to India. The Central Tibetan Administration (CTA), which is empowered to run affairs and is headed by Mr. Sangay, may be the more democratic option, but it will need to carry the entire community with it. For the moment, the CTA is following a “five-50” path, to pursue talks with China in the next five years, while committing to a struggle for a more autonomous Tibet in the next 50 years. However, the past few years have seen a rise in the younger and more radical “Rangtsen” (freedom) groups that says they will settle for nothing short of an independent Tibet.

As a result, the government’s misgivings about officials attending the “Thank You, India” events with the Dalai Lama are minor compared to worries about the more restive Tibetan Youth Congress’s “Bharat Jagran Yatra”, with rallies in several cities across the country to “raise awareness for a free Tibet”. In his lifetime, there is no question that the Dalai Lama holds sway over the whole community; after him, the direction the community takes will be of vital interest to India as well.

Of equal interest are possible talks between the Dalai Lama and the Chinese government. Reports that the Dalai Lama’s special emissary, Samdhong Rinpoche, travelled to Yunnan last year have fuelled rumours that the Dalai Lama is preparing to re-enter talks with China, that were dropped in 2010. Chinese President Xi Jinping, who has now secured his position for the foreseeable future, may well take a more proactive interest in the Tibet issue, which his father once discussed with the Dalai Lama.

Ground realities

In short, the idea that India holds the “Tibet card” is out of step with all the shifts on the ground, and the government needs a proactive policy that takes into account these new realities. There is an urgent need for community outreach, surveys and a referendum, if necessary, to map what the Tibetan community in India wants in its future. For those who want to make India a permanent home, especially those in the new generation, India must reconsider its citizenship laws. Above all, the Indian foreign policy establishment needs to stop seeing the Tibetan population in India as a strategic tool.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kiranA » 24 Mar 2018 08:31

So US is planning 25% tariffs on about 50 to 60 billions of china goods . This amounts to 12-15 billion dollars extra burden on china importers. This money can be taken as loss to chinese firms or paid by american consumers and is loss to american people. Probably a mix of both.

And few years back US imposed a tariff on India by slapping an additional fee of 4000 usd on every h1b petition files by h1b dependent employers - mostly indian companies. Thats almost a billion dollar slap on India taken almost completely by companies as billings rates actually declined while US govt increased costs of business for indian firms.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby panduranghari » 24 Mar 2018 14:12

China in retaliation to tariffs is saying it will dump US treasuries.
I think DT would welcome that. Long dollar trade is currently a very crowded trade. Dumping dollar assets means dollar tanks, making US trade deficits even worse, prompting even more tariffs. China has been caught out here. They never expected this. 40 years of accommodative policies created a behemoth which US can't control.

Going back on the rhetoric is not an option for DT. His interview to Oprah from 1987, DT said the exact same things he is saying in a polished way. Today it's more crass as it's appealing to his vote base.

In reality, this guy is a straight talker. Of course it does not make US our friend, but it certainly causes at least some turmoil in Peking.


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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ashish raval » 24 Mar 2018 14:25

Lol!! Perhaps he doesn't make it clear that dollar has all this privilege of being reserve currency and they all trade in dollars making them buy t-shirt from China at price of throwing some ink on the paper !!! It is perhaps time that dollar privilege should be done with and people should trade in each other' s currency and if all the central banks decide to do that US will be naked piper realising extraordinary privilege comes with a responsibility and if they are not up for it they should be dumped and reverted to gold standard backed currency.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 24 Mar 2018 14:38

panduranghari wrote:China in retaliation to tariffs is saying it will dump US treasuries.
No headline on the 1st page of Google search for the quoted search phrase.

Can you add a link here?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 24 Mar 2018 14:38

Lets do the math for Gold backed currency before suggesting a gold backed currency.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby panduranghari » 24 Mar 2018 14:42

Ashish ji,

Those may be long standing issues and will be solved due to the rules which mathematics imposes, no human input necessary.

But in the short term, the great power pretentions of China will be tested.

The way I see it is, the following things need to be balanced simultaneously:
1/ keep GDP numbers from falling - A
2/ spend surplus on BRI and keep the promises made. -A
3/ keep business profitability in light of increased expenses( tariffs) -A
4/ Prevent coalescing of allied interests by spending money -A
5/ decrease dependence on US dollar for settlement of trade imbalances -B

All A are dollar positive
All B are dollar negative

You may have thoughts on more dollar negative perspectives.

They certainly need enough US treasuries which they are damned if they hold and double damned if they sell.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby panduranghari » 24 Mar 2018 14:46

pankajs wrote:
panduranghari wrote:China in retaliation to tariffs is saying it will dump US treasuries.
No headline on the 1st page of Google search for the quoted search phrase.

Can you add a link here?

N

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2 ... ador-video

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 24 Mar 2018 14:53

^^
Fear disguised as bombast ... Chinese are very good at this.

1. China buys Dollars/Treasuries to keep CNY/USD rate at the desired level for export competitive reasons. Lets suppose the PBOC stops buying Dollar/Treasuries what will happen to the CNY/USD rate?? What will its impact be on its export competitiveness when compared to other East Asian Economies for goods that can be sourced from outside China? What will be its impact on the Chinese exports to the US and Export earning from the US? China is NOT doing charity to the US when it buys Dollars/Treasuries.
2. Lower trade surplus as a result of DT policies == Lesser need for buying Dollar/Treasuries. The *need* to buy lesser treasuries is being presented as the *threat* to buy lesser treasuries. My salute to the Chinese!

Usual Chinese style propaganda and which surprisingly a lot of folks tend to buy without questioning the basic assumptions. ANYTHING the Chinese say MUST first be evaluated as propaganda.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 24 Mar 2018 20:03

China's attempt to change status quo may lead to another Doklam: Indian envoy - IANS, Economic Times
BEIJING: Any attempt by China to change the status quo along the Indian border may lead to another Doklam-like stand-off, India's envoy Gautam Bambawale has said, adding that the best way to prevent such incidents is through candid and frank talks.

In an interview to the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post, Bambwale said the un-demarcated border between India and China is "the most serious problem between the two countries" and they need to redefine the boundary soon.

Bambawale said New Delhi will oppose the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) but won't let the difference over Belt and Road become a dispute with Beijing. He also downplayed the reports of India joining the bloc of the US, Japan and Australia to counter China.


"In order to maintain the peace and tranquillity (along India-China border), there are certain areas, certain sectors which are very sensitive, where we must not change the status quo. If anyone changes the status quo, it will lead to a situation like what happened in Doklam," Bambawale said in the interview published on Saturday.

"The Chinese military changed the status quo in the Doklam area and therefore India reacted to it. Ours was a reaction to the change in the status quo by the Chinese military.

"... when incidents like Doklam happened last year, it meant that we were not frank and candid enough with each other. So we need to increase the level of frankness.

"In the sense that if the Chinese military are going to build a road, they must tell us 'we are going to build a road'. If we do not agree to it then we can reply that, 'look, you're changing the status quo. Please don't do it. This is a very very sensitive area'," he said.

On India's concerns about China's Belt and Road project, Bambawale said if the initiative meets the norms of an international programme then New Delhi has no problem.

"One of the norms is that the project should not violate the sovereignty and territorial integrity of a country. Unfortunately, there is this thing called the CPEC which violates India's sovereignty and territory integrity. Therefore, we oppose it."

The CPEC is the flagship project of China's Belt and Road project, a network of roads, ports and sea lanes that aims to connect Asia, Africa and Europe. India opposes it as it cuts through Kashmir held by Pakistan, but claimed by it.

"We might have differences of opinion on Belt and Road, but that we must not allow that difference of opinion to become a dispute," Bambawale said.

Asked about India's concerns over China making inroads into its neighbourhood, he said New Delhi was not worried about it.

"Let me tell you very clearly that India has its own relationships with all these countries. These are very strong relationships and India is also doing a lot of projects in countries like Maldives, Nepal or Sri Lanka. So, our relationships with these countries are very strong, they are historical, people-to-people contacts."

"I don't think we are worried about what China is doing. Those countries are free to have relationships with any third country, including China."

On the talks of India joining an emerging bloc called Quad, Bambawale sought to allay China's fears. "I do not see India becoming part of any alliance. Let me also repeat what I have already said to you before."

"As far as four countries are concerned, let me tell you very clearly that India has never been a part of any alliance. I think countries like India and China are too big to be part of any alliance," he added.

The envoy said that there are hosts of bilateral meetings lined-up, including the one between Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Summit in June.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2018 20:27

Rohit Vats delivers a slap on Coupta's face
http://www.opindia.com/2018/03/the-prin ... in-doklam/

For some in the English mainstream media, Doklam is a gift which keeps on giving. Various articles and analysis offered on the subject have ranged from few balanced pieces to many which have been sensationalist.

Latest in this series, comes an article from ‘The Print’ which claims that Chinese have found a new route to South Doklam.


read it with images and all at the link above

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2018 20:35

https://twitter.com/bennedose/status/977560984561659904
Quotable quote of the year from @KesariDhwaj : Indian analysts tend to suffer from ‘7-foot China-man syndrome’ where anything & everything which the Chinese do is supposed to have deep profound wisdom behind it. Memorize it!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 24 Mar 2018 20:45

SS ,that was an excellent post on the harsh realities of India playing the "T" card.For too long our MEA mandarins have been pussyfooting with our China policy/ grand strategy which has dramatically deteriorated sincd 2000.As for there being " no failures", only " manging of interests", pray what Indian " interests" have been " managed" in our favour in our neighbourhood in recent times ? I can only think of some partial success in BDesh.Burma a stalemate, China still has the "tilt" in its favour, SL has been a disaster, Nepal a giant snub, the Maldives a catastrophe, and Pak and China a potential holocaust in the future. Afghanistan and Iran are tangential , with laboured progress only, where we seem to take two steps forward then one step backwards every time the White House frowns! We just had our "interests" "sunk" in the Seychelles too.

Fantastic diplomacy overall.With diplomacy of the MEA style, not backed up by our military force, our mortal enemies need not fear India.Our diplomutts will secure defeat for us on the table itself.No need for any fighting!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 25 Mar 2018 06:08

Gautam Bambawale is smoking weed. Chinese do, they don't talk.

First they will construct road and then claim that territory as theirs. That is also frankness.

But this fella wanastha Chinese to say "sir we wanastha build a road, puhleez give us permission". Ney, that's not gonna happen. Chinese are 7feet high.


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