Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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ArjunPandit
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Sep 2019 22:39

A_Gupta wrote:
China is planning to invest $280 billion in Iran’s oil, gas, and petrochemical sectors that are being affected by US sanctions, according to Petroleum Economist magazine.

how reliable is the link..havent heard much on this news..

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Sep 2019 22:43

Rsatchi wrote:Last night was Part II of BBC two china series: about HK demostrations, Chinese billionaires and fronts trying to buy influence
Repeatedly spoke about United Front a Chini commie organisation ( a la Amensty International) trying to peddle Chinese line and buying influence.
Some spine by Pee Pee See given so much Chini influence in the UK.
Is this something like Cash-moor = Chini so to be secular in their own way. :lol:

i also watched not sure if it was the first part or second part..but i think they were quite polite of the chinese influence buying..i wonder if bbc would have been that kind if fellow muslims or earlier british subjects were involved. I had many discussions with chinese to guage their thoughts on this..they're of the viewpoint that hong kongers were not appreciative of the economic and other benefits extended to HK and they wont be treated as favored baby all the time...chinese govt can plan for other alternatives to hk..
hearing them it struck me that there may be chinese game of letting hk fritter away and let business/industries move away to mainland china over years..

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rsatchi » 11 Sep 2019 16:16

Part I & II all about XI rise and problems in HK and Xijiang and concentration camps(which pee pee see has not guts to call a spade a spade) interviews from people who have escaped and watching their kids being brain washed.!! But no big reaction from Lizard. Why??
Ignoring pee pee see.
Seems to be sending lot of their youths for higher studies to UK.
Maybe a long term plan to peddle influence and set up call centres/back offices in Chini to compete with India.
So for the time being not to take panga with the Britshits given that HK is daily on the news

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 11 Sep 2019 22:08

India-China spat delays deal covering a third of global trade

- The main source of tension is between India and China over the amount of goods with preferential tariffs, according to a person familiar with the negotiations who asked not to be identified

- The person said India was also unhappy with the position of Southeast Asian countries on the free movement of professionals and is weighing whether to be part of the deal at all

NEW DELHI: A spat between the world’s most populous countries is holding up a pan-Asian trade agreement encompassing nearly a third of all global trade.

Trade ministers from 16 Asia-Pacific countries this week hailed a “critical milestone” after seven years of talks and vowed to wind them up before a regional summit in November. But officials involved in the process say major sticking points remain around market access and the ability of workers to find employment in other countries.

The main source of tension is between India and China over the amount of goods with preferential tariffs, according to a person familiar with the negotiations who asked not to be identified. The person said India was also unhappy with the position of Southeast Asian countries on the free movement of professionals, particularly in the IT sector, and is
weighing whether to be part of the deal at all.

Covering nearly half of the globe’s population, the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership was proclaimed “the world’s biggest regional free trade deal” when talks started in 2012. Shortly after President Donald Trump took office in 2016 and pulled the US out of an Asia-Pacific trade deal, President Xi Jinping sought to accelerate talks on the Asia-wide pact to cement bolster China’s influence.

Sticking points

But negotiators have repeatedly blown through deadlines, mostly because Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government is worried about exacerbating a trade deficit with China and the rest of Asia isn’t willing to accept large amounts of Indian workers in return for greater market access. The talks include the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations,
Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, India and China.

“I’m not too optimistic because of the differences among the member countries, especially towards how they see RCEP benefiting the economy versus the challenges it creates,” said Yeah Kim Leng, an economics professor at Sunway University in Malaysia who is an external member of the Malaysian central bank’s monetary policy committee.

“The big question now is if they would like to proceed without India, which could cause some big push back from New Zealand and Australia,” he said. “Which would in turn make the process take a longer time.”

Officially, the group is sticking together. Thai commerce minister Jurin Laksanawisit on Tuesday evening said each of the 16 nations negotiating the trade pact, including India, supports the conclusion of the talks by November.

“Everything is on track,” Jurin told reporters. “We made progress in every meeting over the past week.”

Monideepa Mukherjee, a spokesperson for trade ministry, wasn’t immediately available for comment. On Monday, external affairs minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar openly blamed China for what he described as “unfair” trade policies that created “an enormous trade deficit.”

‘No return’

China hasn’t commented officially on the latest round of talks. On August 29, China's commerce ministry spokesman Gao Feng said Beijing would play a constructive role and “push for the conclusion of the negotiations as scheduled.”

“The Chinese side is still optimistic,” said Wang Huiyao, an adviser to China’s cabinet and founder of Center for China and Globalization. “China wants it because of the Sino-US trade war,” he added, saying the deal would be a “way for the region to show that it opposes unilateralism.”

Many member countries insist the advantages of a regional pact outweigh any lingering doubts, particularly as they cope with the fallout of slowing global economic growth and enduring US-China trade war. The next round of negotiations are expected to be held later this month in Danang, Vietnam.

Indonesian minister of trade Enggartiasto Lukita warned in a statement on Monday that the talks had reached a “point of no return.” He acknowledged negotiations remained far apart in some areas, and some solutions proposed by individual countries didn’t work for the “outlying majority.”

“A settlement this year is very urgent,” Lukita said. “If not, the RCEP negotiations will lose important momentum that can drive changes and progress in the world economy.”

Ray of hope

Still, not everyone is despairing at the agreement’s progress.

Striking a tone of cautious optimism, Rebecca Fatima Sta Maria, executive director of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Secretariat, noted talks around the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership took eight years from start to ratification.

“I only worry when people stop talking -- not when they are still coming to the table for discussions,” Sta Maria, former secretary-general of Malaysia’s trade ministry, said in an email. “In my experience, trade negotiations can be unpredictable and we may frustrate ourselves if we try to pin down a magic formula, other than patience and an open mind.”

Sta Maria said she looks forward to more good news in November. She’d said in May that lack of progress this year on RCEP would be “embarrassing,” especially for Southeast Asia economies that have pushed for the deal.

Cheers Image

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 12 Sep 2019 09:46

Indian, Chinese soldiers get into scuffle in Ladakh - Rajat Pandit, ToI
Border tensions between India and China flared up yet again on Wednesday with a prolonged confrontation between the rival troops in eastern Ladakh, even as the Indian Army gets all set to hold a major war game to test its new integrated battle groups (IBGs) in Arunachal Pradesh next month.

Sources said the face-off between Indian and Chinese soldiers began on the northern bank of the 134-km-long Pangong Tso (Tso means lake), two-thirds of which is controlled by China as it extends from Tibet to Ladakh, soon after dawn on Wednesday.

“Indian soldiers were on a patrol when they were confronted by People’s Liberation Army soldiers, who strongly objected to their presence in the area. This led to a scuffle between the rival soldiers, with both sides sending some reinforcements to the area… the face-off was in progress at the site till the evening,” said a source.

The Army, on being contacted by TOI, only said that delegation-level talks led by brigadier-rank officers “had been sought and agreed to by the two sides” as per the established bilateral mechanism to defuse tensions. “Such incidents often take place due to differing perceptions of where the Line of Actual Control (LAC) actually lies … they are usually resolved through border personnel meetings, flag meetings and the like,” said an officer.

The disputed “Finger-5 to Finger-8” (mountainous spurs) area on the north bank of Pangong Tso, incidentally, had witnessed a violent clash between Indian and Chinese soldiers, with stones and iron rods being used to injure each other, on August 15, 2017.

The incident had coincided with the then much more serious troop face-off at the Bhutanese territory of Doklam near the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction that year. Though the two armies had disengaged from the face-off site at Doklam after a 73-day confrontation, the fallout has been that the PLA has constructed military infrastructure and helipads as well as permanently stationed troops in north Doklam, as was earlier reported by TOI.
Interestingly, the Indian Army will be holding its “Him Vijay” exercise in Arunachal Pradesh at a time when Chinese President Xi Jinping is expected to visit India for the second informal summit with PM Narendra Modi. The first summit at Wuhan in April 2018, in the aftermath of the Doklam face-off, had led to “strategic guidance” to the two militaries to manage and defuse troop confrontations during patrolling in accordance with existing protocols and mechanisms.

Sources said China has not been informed of the “Him Vijay” exercise because it will not be held close to the border in Arunachal Pradesh. It will witness around 15,000 soldiers in three IBGs, carved out of the 17 Mountain Strike Corps, being tested for mountain warfare in terms of operational viability and logistics. The IAF, in turn, will deploy C-17s, C-130Js and AN-32 aircraft as well as helicopters for airlift of soldiers and equipment as well as inter-valley transfer.

The Army is raising the new IBGs, with a potent mix of infantry, tanks, artillery, air defence, signals and engineers, to ensure they can mobilise fast and strike hard across the borders with Pakistan and China. The IBGs for the western front have already been “test-bedded and exercised” in war games in April-May in the plains of Jammu, Punjab and Rajasthan as part of the Army’s overall plan to reformat its entire war-fighting machinery and sharpen the “cold start” doctrine, as was reported by TOI earlier.

The IBGs bring together all fighting arms and support units into self-contained units even during peacetime to ensure much faster mobilisation for cross-border strikes. “The existing structures, under which the different elements largely marry up only during actual combat, are outdated. The IBGs are being fine-tuned through such exercises,” said an officer.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 12 Sep 2019 11:45

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/indi ... 190912.htm
Indian, Chinese soldiers face-off near Pangong lake in eastern Ladakh, tensions ease after talks
Soldiers of the Indian and People’s Liberation Army of China were engaged in a face-off near Pangong lake in Ladakh on Wednesday. Tensions were eased after delegation-level talks.

India Today Web Desk, New Delhi, September 12, 2019
HIGHLIGHTS
India, China troops engage in heated exchange in eastern Ladakh
Face-off after Chinese objected to patrol by Indian soldiers in the area
Issue resolved during delegation-level talks between the two sides

Tensions along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) flared up on Wednesday following a face-off between Indian and Chinese troops in eastern Ladakh. The standoff that lasted a day, however, ended after delegation-level talks were held.
The Indian and Chinese troops were reportedly engaged in a confrontation near the northern bank of the Pangong lake in Ladakh, two-thirds of which is controlled by China.
Army sources said tensions escalated when Indian troops on patrol were confronted by the soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army of China. This resulted in a scuffle with the two sides sending more soldiers to the area, sources added.
"There was a face-off between the two armies but it got over after the delegation-level talks between two sides. The face-off is over now and it had de-escalated and disengaged fully after delegation-level talks yesterday [Wednesday]," the Indian Army said.
.....
Gautam
Lizard showing Dimran that they are on his side.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby vishvak » 12 Sep 2019 12:22

Sta Maria said she looks forward to more good news in November. She’d said in May that lack of progress this year on RCEP would be “embarrassing,” especially for Southeast Asia economies that have pushed for the deal.

Wonder why southeast Asian economies are waiting for 'good' news etc etc against clear opposition views.

Just reminds of Chinese setting up courts within China and calling them 'international' to resolve OBOR/BRI disputes. Hope all sides remember that right from the start.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 13 Sep 2019 04:31

Gautam, It could be related to upcoming Xi JinPing visit to India.

Here is Pangong Tso or Lake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangong_Tso

Please watch embedded video in this link:

https://www.ibtimes.com/indian-chinese- ... kh-2825958


Also Pangong Tso was the site of 1962 war.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 13 Sep 2019 07:42

ramana wrote:Gautam, It could be related to upcoming Xi JinPing visit to India.

Precisely my thoughts too.

The China border has been quiet after the Wuhan meet last year.

The Chinesee have always behaved like this ahead of an important visit.

During the Chinese President, Xi Jinping’s state visit in September 2014, there were two incidents in Depsang and Chumar. In fact, the Chumar incident rapidly spun out of control.

In April 2013, in a deep incursion, Chinese troops entered the Indian Territory in the Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector setting the stage for a face-to-face situation with Indian troops which continued for 21 days. This put the visit of Li Keqiang (who had been specially accommodated by Man Mohan Singh at very short notice upon a direct request from Xi Jinping) in jeopardy. Somehow, this was resolved by the visit of our Foreign Minister, Salman Kurshid to Beijing and Li’s visit took place. This was soon followed by the Chumar incident which occurred in June 2013 just two weeks before the first ever visit by an Indian defence minister in seven years. Much earlier, during the then Indian Foreign Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee’s path-breaking trip to Beijing, in c. 1979, China launched a war against Vietnam to “teach it a lesson” and this unsettling phrase of 1962 made Vajpayee cut short his Beijing visit. During the first ever Head of State visit to China by the Indian President R.Venkatraman in c. 1992, China conducted its first megaton nuclear test.

This is imperial and dismissive behaviour by China to show that they do not take us seriously at all.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sanjaykumar » 13 Sep 2019 07:45

This is imperial and dismissive behaviour by China to show that they do not take us seriously at all.


Ipso facto they do.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pandyan » 13 Sep 2019 08:58

This was the situation in 2012 (if you recall):
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-deploys-hi-tech-boats-to-counter-China-in-Ladakh-lake/articleshow/16634214.cms
Now, at least on one particular stretch along the unresolved 4,057-km Line of Actual Control (LAC), Indian soldiers can finally cock a snook at Chinese troops after years of being aggressively needled.
Indian soldiers are armed with spanking new high-tech QRT (quick-reaction team) boats to patrol the highly-picturesque but equally-contentious Pangong Tso (Tso means lake in Ladakhi) in eastern Ladakh, which has emerged as a major flashpoint between the world’s largest and second-largest armies over the last decade
...
Equipped with over 20 well-armed boats, People’s Liberation Army troops have been virtually running circles around Indian troops handicapped by slow, outdated vessels. In the past, Chinese boats have even disabled Indian boats by ramming into them.
"Now, we have received 11 of the 17 QRT boats, each of which can carry 16 to 18 soldiers, ordered from the US. With these high-speed interceptor boats, fitted with radars, infra-red and GPS systems, we can do robust reconnaissance and area domination patrols,’’ said an officer.
"If the Chinese come one km into our territory, we can go three km into theirs. Earlier, apart from some smaller vessels, we had only a couple of large speed boats, mounted with machine guns and capable of carrying 10 soldiers,’’ he added.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 13 Sep 2019 09:12

For the US to win, it must convince its allies to not take advantage of the China market while Amreeka is fighting a goddam trade and technology war with Cheen.

The pressure is on Israel now (Japan, Korea and Germany are already in the doghouse over Cheen.)

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/11/757290503/theres-a-growing-sore-spot-in-israeli-u-s-relations-china

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-12/the-u-s-is-pressuring-israel-to-rethink-investment-from-china

Israel's involvement with the J-10 and its Lavi/F-16 technology has always been a sore spot.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/chinas-j-10-vigorous-dragon-did-israel-help-build-deadly-fighter-80136

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 13 Sep 2019 09:44

India, since its independence, has recognized only the Johnson-Ardagh Line in Ladakh which gives the entire Aksai Chin to India with Shaidullah (Xiadulla now) at the north end and Pongong Tso at the southern end. After constructing the G219 Tibet-Xinjiang Hwy, the Chinese want a greater depth to protect it. Also, the gap between Pangong Tso and the Spanggur Tso leads to Chushul.

Those QRT boats changed the scenario for our Army. In June 2014, the PLA, who were on board four of their interceptor boats, had crossed over into the Indian side of the lake, even as they were moving from the Northern areas of the lake to the Southern side. Within 20 minutes of the Chinese soldiers and their boats being spotted, the Indian troopers boarded four of their boats to intercept them and chased them away.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rsatchi » 13 Sep 2019 14:48

Quite hard hitting part 3 of the China series on pee pee see two last night.
concluding section on industrial espionage and chini military directly involved in industrial hacking.
Also how the Bristshits got shafted by chini military implants and loosing techs to chini.
As I had posted earlier large number of chini students in UK and now they are realising that a fair number of them are military implants sent to steal technology.
Britshits are still ready to call a spade a spade.
'I want more GUBO' syndrome maybe. :((

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby hanumadu » 13 Sep 2019 16:15

Are they stealing or are they learning from the west and taking it back to their country? IMO, that's technically not stealing if they are not doing anything illegal - that is stealing blue prints or formulas or code without the knowledge of the establishments they work for. I doubt foreign citizens are allowed to work on strategic technology projects.

Anyway, the Chinese are fools to be so aggressive and high profile about 'stealing' the technology from the west. They even gave it a name - 'Thousand Talents'. Can't understand the chinese hurry to be number one.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby williams » 13 Sep 2019 16:46

SSridhar wrote:
ramana wrote:Gautam, It could be related to upcoming Xi JinPing visit to India.

Precisely my thoughts too.

The China border has been quiet after the Wuhan meet last year.

The Chinesee have always behaved like this ahead of an important visit.

During the Chinese President, Xi Jinping’s state visit in September 2014, there were two incidents in Depsang and Chumar. In fact, the Chumar incident rapidly spun out of control.

In April 2013, in a deep incursion, Chinese troops entered the Indian Territory in the Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector setting the stage for a face-to-face situation with Indian troops which continued for 21 days. This put the visit of Li Keqiang (who had been specially accommodated by Man Mohan Singh at very short notice upon a direct request from Xi Jinping) in jeopardy. Somehow, this was resolved by the visit of our Foreign Minister, Salman Kurshid to Beijing and Li’s visit took place. This was soon followed by the Chumar incident which occurred in June 2013 just two weeks before the first ever visit by an Indian defence minister in seven years. Much earlier, during the then Indian Foreign Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee’s path-breaking trip to Beijing, in c. 1979, China launched a war against Vietnam to “teach it a lesson” and this unsettling phrase of 1962 made Vajpayee cut short his Beijing visit. During the first ever Head of State visit to China by the Indian President R.Venkatraman in c. 1992, China conducted its first megaton nuclear test.

This is imperial and dismissive behaviour by China to show that they do not take us seriously at all.


It could also be a reaction to India asking their foreign minister to reschedule his visit.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 13 Sep 2019 16:50

If US was serious, then shipping and receiving teams of all US based companies would be as annoyed to ship to China as they are when shipping to India. So far I haven't noticed that. Shipments are still heading out of US to China without any hassle.

The same with Chinese students and faculty. ITAR and export laws are clear. US can certainly start enforcing them when it comes to Chinese. So far the enforcement and vigilance is not up to the level. By now all US universities should have been put on notice and violators taken to courts to set new bar but hasn't happened yet. So far only students and faculty have been affected but no university's leadership.

May be there's a lag in the system, there's swamp to drain, it's a charade for election, etc. Still too hard to say if US is serious or just the election ploy to swing votes. At the three year mark of current US govt, I was hoping to see suppliers annoyed to the same level when shipping to India and/or drop off of chinese in academia. Neither has been observed.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rsatchi » 13 Sep 2019 17:43

hanumadu wrote:Are they stealing or are they learning from the west and taking it back to their country? IMO, that's technically not stealing if they are not doing anything illegal - that is stealing blue prints or formulas or code without the knowledge of the establishments they work for. I doubt foreign citizens are allowed to work on strategic technology projects.

Anyway, the Chinese are fools to be so aggressive and high profile about 'stealing' the technology from the west. They even gave it a name - 'Thousand Talents'. Can't understand the chinese hurry to be number one.

Not just studying there to improve knowledge but actively conniving to steal research done in the field so as to jump start in chin.
Also hiding facts that they are active serving officers in the army while enrolling in tech fields dealing in sensitive technology. Some of the Britshit Unis are in dire straits and hence allow foreign students on paying hefty fees(like our donation system in private colleges :lol: )
Also masquerading as sales executive etc and stealing genetic techs and getting in touch with Chini officials.
Interesting story of a guy who stole genetically modified corn seeds planted in experimental fields in Iowa and then attending official dinner in honour of visiting the then VP XI gin. :shock:
Five serviing Chini military men indicted in US for cyber attacks and stealing techs. XI gin promised Om Baba that he will honour intellectual property rights and then said thenga!! :D
German/European solar company went bust after chini stole not only their tech(Chini government gave massive subsidy to undercut goras) but also all the papers relating to Chini company being sued in US :rotfl: It was game over.

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 13 Sep 2019 18:41

Piece offering

Ren Zhengfei may sell Huawei’s 5G technology to a Western buyer

The Chinese telecoms giant’s boss considers creating a competitor for his company

In an atrium designed to evoke ancient Greece—ringed by stone columns and six towering approximations of the Caryatids—it was fitting that Ren Zhengfei, chief executive of Huawei, should extend an olive branch to the West: a piece of his company. The palatial edifice on Huawei’s sprawling campus in Shenzhen houses an exhibition hall proudly displaying the Chinese telecommunications giant’s “fifth-generation” (5g) technology. The ultra-swift, and ultra-coveted, mobile-phone networks will soon connect everything from cars to industrial robots.

It is this 5g technology—central to Huawei’s future revenue growth—that Mr Ren said he was ready to share, in a two-hour interview with The Economist on September 10th. For a one-time fee, a transaction would give the buyer perpetual access to Huawei’s existing 5g patents, licences, code, technical blueprints and production know-how. The acquirer could modify the source code, meaning that neither Huawei nor the Chinese government would have even hypothetical control of any telecoms infrastructure built using equipment produced by the new company. Huawei would likewise be free to develop its technology in whatever direction it pleases.

Huawei has been on a charm offensive this year. It has wheeled Mr Ren out once a month since January for interview bonanzas with international media outlets. But the idea of transferring its 5g “stack” to a competitor is by far the boldest offering to have surfaced. “It’s hard to come up with similar precedents in the history of technology,” says Dan Wang of Gavekal Dragonomics, a research firm.

Mr Ren’s stated aim is to create a rival that could compete in 5g with Huawei (which would keep its existing contracts and continue to sell its own 5g kit). To his mind, this would help level the playing field at a time when many in the West have grown alarmed at the prospect of a Chinese company supplying the gear for most of the world’s new mobile-phone networks. “A balanced distribution of interests is conducive to Huawei’s survival,” Mr Ren says.

No kidding. A months-long assault by America has pummelled the firm, whose global networks it suspects of allowing China to spy on others. America has also attempted to press allies not to use Huawei’s equipment as they begin to build their own 5g networks. In May American companies were barred from selling components and software to Huawei on the ground that it posed a national-security risk. Last month America restricted government agencies from doing business with it (the firm is challenging this ban in court).

At first glance, Mr Ren’s gesture has much going for it. If the sale eventually gave rise to a thriving competitor, countries such as Australia (which has banned Huawei’s gear) would no longer have to choose between, on the one hand, technology in their networks that is both cutting-edge and cheap, as Huawei’s is, and, on the other, fears of Chinese eavesdropping. They could have the best technology from an ally instead. Decisions on the purchase of telecoms equipment could then return from politicians to pragmatic boardrooms.

The gesture may also convince those suspicious of Huawei’s tech that the firm’s business intentions are hard-nosed. Mr Ren says money from the deal would allow Huawei to “make greater strides forward”. The value of the firm’s entire 5g technology portfolio, if it were sold, could run to tens of billions of dollars. In the past decade the company has spent at least $2bn on research and development for the new generation of mobile connectivity.

In saying he wants to create a fairer technological race, Mr Ren is also attempting to dissociate American security fears from those of Huawei’s market dominance. His offer is “essentially calling their bluff”, says Samm Sacks of New America, a think-tank in Washington. As she points out, America’s government is working out how to create a rival to Huawei, whether by fostering American firms or helping bolster its two main global competitors, Ericsson, a Swedish firm, and Nokia, a Finnish one. Moves are also afoot to make certain components of mobile networks interchangeable with each other, to let carriers mix and match suppliers more easily. Openran, a standards body, wants infrastructure manufacturers like Huawei to agree on standards for the technology in their networks that shuttles data around to make joint operation easier. Huawei has so far declined to join.

Yet questions over the feasibility of the deal abound. Would China accept hiving off a core part of one of its few globally powerful corporations? For better or worse, 5g has become a proxy for superpowerdom. As Mr Ren told The Economist, “5g represents speed” and “countries that have speed will move forward rapidly. On the contrary, countries that give up speed and excellent connectivity technology may see economic slowdown.”

Even if the Chinese state gave its blessing, who might be the buyer? Mr Ren says he has “no idea”. Analysts suspect that giants such as Ericsson and Nokia would balk at an offer out of pride, and would question the value of Huawei’s tech. (Having posted losses last year, they are also short of cash.) The technology may not help a smaller firm compete on an equal footing with Huawei. The Chinese company is so well entrenched with big operators, say consultants, that it would not make financial sense for most of them to take on a new supplier. Samsung, a South Korean electronics giant, has deep pockets and a smallish but growing networking-gear business—and without rival bidders, it could drive a hard bargain. A consortium of buyers is possible; who would make one up is unclear, however.

Suitors may be put off by other considerations. If Huawei really is ready to transfer all its technology to another company, then, as Mr Wang points out, “it has to accept the risk of a major competitor in the future”. But Huawei’s dominance owes as much to technology as to its low prices and the speed at which it can roll products out, says Ms Sacks. Its willingness to serve places Western firms steer clear of is also a factor: who else besides Huawei would wade through malarial swamps in Africa and haul base stations up the flanks of Colombian mountains? Mr Ren knows this. Asked whether he thought that an American firm, with Huawei’s precious know-how in hand, would be able to pull it off, he said, with swagger, “I don’t think so.” But potential buyers know it, too.

Lastly, few believe that a sale would placate America’s national-security apparatus, at least in the short run. A new competitor would almost certainly still need to make equipment in China, which produces half of America’s telecoms kit. Concerns about Chinese meddling would not go away. And Huawei’s latest offensive is not all charm. Last week it accused American officials of committing infractions while posing as Huawei workers, in order to “bring unsubstantiated accusations against the company”. It also accused America’s government of targeting it with cyber-attacks. That may sour relations.

Could Mr Ren’s proposal, then, be a sign of desperation? Not a bit of it, he says. He claims that Huawei has found alternative suppliers for its network-infrastructure business that are unaffected by its blacklisting by America. He denies that the company will make a loss in the coming year.

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Nonetheless, the consumer business is under pressure. Half of the company’s $105bn in sales last year came from the 208m smartphones it sold around the world. So did an outsize share of profits. This business is in deep trouble. Phones that Huawei sells outside China are desirable communication devices largely thanks to proprietary software available exclusively from Google. Android, Google’s mobile operating system, which Huawei uses, is open-source and freely available. But the American tech giant’s own apps are not. Because Google is American and its apps are compiled in America, the Commerce Department’s ban on sales of American technology to Huawei applies to them.

Mr Ren says that Google has been lobbying the Trump administration to allow it to resume supplying Huawei with proprietary Android software, but so far to no avail. Unless American policy changes, Huawei will remain stuck with the open-source version of Android, without any of the apps that consumers have come to expect. The Chinese firm is in the process of developing its own operating system, Harmony os, but it will be no rival to the mature Android ecosystem for years to come.

Sandboxed

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This means that all new Huawei phones will ship without Gmail, Google Maps, YouTube or, crucially, Google Play Store. The Play Store is what allows Android users to download apps like WhatsApp, Instagram and Facebook easily. WhatsApp in particular has become a standard mode of communication in much of the world outside America. Unless its government lets up, Huawei’s new smartphones will be little more than decent cameras that make phone calls. The firm will launch the Mate 30, the first top-end phone since its blacklisting, on September 19th in Munich. Huawei claims its hardware features will buoy sales. But a phone which lacks basic functions is unlikely to be a hit. A weakened consumer business would dent profits.

Huawei’s share of the Chinese smartphone market, where it has never relied on Google’s apps, is growing fast. But two-fifths of its annual phone sales, or roughly $20bn, come from outside the country. Though the firm’s executives repeatedly declined to share any projections, firm-wide revenue growth in the eight months to August slowed to 20%, year on year, from 23% in the first half of 2019. If the Mate 30 and its successors flop, Huawei stands to lose billions of dollars in annual revenue.

Similar supply-chain challenges affect other parts of its business. Its coders are busily writing software tools known as compilers and libraries, themselves used to create the software that powers all manner of electronic devices, not just smartphones but also networking gear. As with Android, Huawei would have to create its own version of these, and a technological ecosystem around them. Such ecosystems take years to evolve, and there is only so much one company can do to stimulate this evolution, which relies on third-party developers, with their own goals and incentives. Huawei’s expertise in high, hard technology is of little use here.

And, Mr Ren’s assurances notwithstanding, Huawei’s finances are being squeezed. Even he concedes that its relations with large Western banks such as hsbc and Standard Chartered have been disrupted. Still, the firm has plenty of cash and he says that smaller banks remain willing to lend to it. The Chinese Development Bank, which has reportedly extended credit lines to Huawei and zte, a Chinese competitor, in the past, may stump up if needed. Mr Ren and his underlings repeatedly claim that cashflow is “healthy”, pointing to the firm’s furious building work. It has just finished a 120-hectare, $1.4bn research campus.

Huawei is being forced to transform itself from a company that makes and sells hardware into one that also makes many components that it used to buy from others. This kind of shift strains a firm. Its cash cow is under threat even as it has to invest heavily to replace the suppliers and software it can no longer get from America. Mr Ren may hope that his mooted sale of Huawei’s 5g technology will give him sufficient fuel for the company to fly ever higher. But peer behind the showy frescoes in Shenzhen, and his showier gesture, and Huawei’s future looks decidedly hazy.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby A_Gupta » 13 Sep 2019 19:28

ArjunPandit wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:
China is planning to invest $280 billion in Iran’s oil, gas, and petrochemical sectors that are being affected by US sanctions, according to Petroleum Economist magazine.

how reliable is the link..havent heard much on this news..


This link points to Iranian reporting ( translate.google.com helps).
https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1398 ... 9%86%D8%AF

Here's some more (but not original reporting)
https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/the-pr ... cold-29686

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby A_Gupta » 13 Sep 2019 19:30

FYI, the last part of that Iranian reporting above says:

"Chinese customs data show that the country imported more than 925,000 barrels of crude from Iran in July, up 4.7 percent on a monthly basis. According to Iranian sources, China's actual oil imports are higher than China's, with additional barrels being kept in floating reserves around China and not passing through customs to be recorded in official statistics."

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby A_Gupta » 13 Sep 2019 19:39

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1553431
US sanctions bringing China and Iran together
Trump’s policies have energized Iranian interest in China. While, following the striking of the nuclear deal, Iran was focusing on Europe to build commercial ties and boost its industrial infrastructure, today all eyes are on China. CITIC Group, a state-owned investment firm, has given a $10 billion credit line to Chinese companies to finance water, energy and transport projects in Iran. The China Development Bank has also committed to deals worth $15 billion. And China has signed several deals with Iran to invest in its oil and gas infrastructure, including a project in the giant South Pars gas field.
China can also use its relations with Iran as a way to weaken the prestige of the US around the world and as retaliation against Trump’s trade war. Beijing is reluctant to abide by the US sanctions as it is committed to many projects in Iran, which the latter is supposed to pay for with oil. There is a synergy between the two countries: Both are confronted by the US, and China is a consumer of oil while Iran is a supplier of the precious commodity. Iran can resort to the infrastructure projects presented in the BRI to boost its economy and compensate for the losses incurred as a result of the US sanctions. Development projects tend to have a multiplier effect, i.e., the money spent on them cascades through several layers of the economy and has a larger effect than the original sum spent.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kati » 14 Sep 2019 20:56

RCMP Intelligence Director Charged Under National Secrets Act

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/vb5e ... ide-report

He was allegedly selling state secret to Panda....

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kati » 14 Sep 2019 21:00

Chinese-born Australian lawmaker under fire over past links

https://news.yahoo.com/chinese-born-aus ... 11428.html

She was allegedly furthering Panda's agenda in Australia from inside.....(a deep cover agent?)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kati » 15 Sep 2019 05:47



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