Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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Rony
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rony » 25 May 2020 21:25

Many chinese dont like ccp either. But they are terrified what will happen to china if ccp is not there. And all including those critical of ccp acknowledge that in china's history, ccp 'dynasty' is the one which has expanded china's power enormously in last 40 years or so and as such many chinese admire it. ccp now joins China's 3 great dynasties (han, tang, qing) in terms of extending china's territories. Qing is non-han but it is the one which expanded china's territorial extent more than any other han dynasty. ccp is next only to qing in that aspect .

If you want to beat ccp in the eyes of the chinese, then you have to beat on their h&d. a Indian liberation of Aksai chin and manasarovar will do the job. But i know thats easier said than done. All the real or exaggerated portrayal of chinese power in indian and western press only makes ccp more attractive to the aam chinese.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby khan » 25 May 2020 22:08

Rony wrote:Many chinese dont like ccp either. But they are terrified what will happen to china if ccp is not there. And all including those critical of ccp acknowledge that in china's history, ccp 'dynasty' is the one which has expanded china's power enormously in last 40 years or so and as such many chinese admire it. ccp now joins China's 3 great dynasties (han, tang, qing) in terms of extending china's territories. Qing is non-han but it is the one which expanded china's territorial extent more than any other han dynasty. ccp is next only to qing in that aspect .

If you want to beat ccp in the eyes of the chinese, then you have to beat on their h&d. a Indian liberation of Aksai chin and manasarovar will do the job. But i know thats easier said than done. All the real or exaggerated portrayal of chinese power in indian and western press only makes ccp more attractive to the aam chinese.

Tibet IMO will be a much bigger black eye for CCP. It will make the entire western China seem much more fragile.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Sravan » 26 May 2020 00:03

I said it before and I will say it again. We need to define the playground and bring the stick for the ass whooping. Waiting for Chinese to make the first move is a bad strategy. Pre-emptively take out their capabilities, give them a bloody nose and hold the ground. That’s the only option here.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rony » 26 May 2020 00:22

khan wrote:
Rony wrote:Many chinese dont like ccp either. But they are terrified what will happen to china if ccp is not there. And all including those critical of ccp acknowledge that in china's history, ccp 'dynasty' is the one which has expanded china's power enormously in last 40 years or so and as such many chinese admire it. ccp now joins China's 3 great dynasties (han, tang, qing) in terms of extending china's territories. Qing is non-han but it is the one which expanded china's territorial extent more than any other han dynasty. ccp is next only to qing in that aspect .

If you want to beat ccp in the eyes of the chinese, then you have to beat on their h&d. a Indian liberation of Aksai chin and manasarovar will do the job. But i know thats easier said than done. All the real or exaggerated portrayal of chinese power in indian and western press only makes ccp more attractive to the aam chinese.

Tibet IMO will be a much bigger black eye for CCP. It will make the entire western China seem much more fragile.


True. But are our capabilities as they stand today in comparison to the chinese are sufficient to liberate whole tibet ? Liberating kailash manasarovar and aksai chin first and defending them and other areas of lac from chinese counter attacks will answer if we are capable of liberating whole tibet or not.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 May 2020 00:27

TWITTER
@arunpudur wrote:

Do not assume the present Chinese standoffs in multiple locations like dokhlam.

They are prepared for war to protect POK as without it BRI is dead.

Massive unrest among PLA & it's people. So they need an outside enemy & INDIA is the target.

Spanish flu spread during WW1.
https://twitter.com/arunpudur/status/12 ... 61604?s=19
________________________

The only way Bharat can throw off the dragon for a year, is by taking over POK. This is why so much unrest was being created even before corona. Even Nepal has been pushed away from us. We, as a nation, must be ready for a short battle. We won the 1967 china war
https://t.co/Uyehm6zXW4

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kancha » 26 May 2020 07:41

nandakumar wrote:

I read all the three parts. Congratulations on a painstaking effort. May more keep coming for the benefit of members of this forum. Having said that, I get the feeling that your assessment of the future of the current ruling dispensation in China is overly pessimistic. They aren't going to be overthrown anytime soon. I base it on nothing more than past history. China's past experiments (Great Leap Firward, Cultural Revolution) in nation building had been nothing short of a disaster. Yet it didn't disturb the ruling structure in the least. One can't attribute it entirely to the charisma of Mao. It was quite simply that overwhelming force of State power was employed to subjugate a terrified population. Why would it be different this time?


Thanks for reading what I wrote, Nandakumar.
I'll not dispute your opinion. But I will still maintain my own opinion that things are a LOT different this time round when China stands so massively isolated. I'll once again reiterate what I wrote in the first blog - Trump has indeed put on stake a lot of political capital by openly naming and shaming China in the run up to his re-election bid.
Now couple that with what is actually happening on the US-China front and this is what gives me the reading that China is in for a huge churn. You do have solid grounds to say that the CCP may still survive, but in any case, survival of Xi Jinping himself as also the Chinese economy in its current form is highly doubtful.
The CCP itself is in the midst of a massive internal churning. It may not be directly apparent, but its manifestations are there for all to see, esp in the case of Ladakh incursion. Here is a summary of what I wrote on Twitter last night -

China has already so much fronts on which it is fighting lately - SCS, Taiwan, W.H.O, Trade War, Hong Kong COVID-19 itself - do you really think they would want to open another new front out of the blue?
One thing that is not apparent right away is the internal power struggle going within the CCP. Xi Jinping is fighting for his very survival, for if he loses, he loses not just his position, but his very life will be in danger.
Then there is Trump, openly threatening and now slowly starting to act against Chinese interests. One very interesting threat coming in from the USA is that of announcing the assets of corrupt CCP officials in the US.
Bottomline: A LOT of folks are NOT very happy with Xi Jinping.
What I see in this standoff is another front opened up not against India, but against Xi himself. Remember, one of the top PLA commanders during Doklam was 'purged' soon thereafter on corruption charges.
The PLA has had a tendency to do such nonsense ahead of important events. They've done it before Xi Jinping's visit to India (Gujarat Trip), Doklam happened just before the CCP's National Congress where Xi was to announce his successor, but instead announced appointing himself as Chairman for life and now this, when the 'Two Sessions' was scheduled to take place.
Link


This is what I hold to be the way things are likely to progress. Of course, it may not happen that way and you may be right indeed. But the only way to find out for sure is to wait and watch!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 26 May 2020 08:20

We can't wait and wait and wait for the Chinese moves.It gives the the advantage of surprise .We must similarly strike out on our own first in non- mil. strategy where they stand to lose huge loss of face.Establising dpl. ties with Taiwan regardless of our ties with China forcing them to cut off relations with us! That will end all eco. trade with China,a huge loss of $70 B every year. India recognising Taiwan could be coordinated with some like-minded nations too. It could start a snowball in the anti- Chinese dpl. war.

Cutting off eco. ties ,or imposing harsh duties,banning some items, investment into India, could be a precursor,but the trump cards are the two T factors,Tibet and Taiwan.
Declaring Tibet as COT,Chinese occupied Tibet, would be a bayonet up XI's bunghole,and recognising Taiwan,the coup de grace. There are other methods of showing XI the two fingers,by quick sales or announcements of missiles like BMos,Prahar,etc. to Vietnam,the Phillippines,etc.Sub. tech to Taiwan too.

China it is that must be taught the lesson in 2020,that '62 will not be repeated. The news that the Chins are evacuating all their nationals from India is a sign of the intent of the Chin fuhrer.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sanjaykumar » 26 May 2020 09:23

But first let the poker get red hot. Let the US invest its honour in the Chinese reckoning. Ensure this is not a negotiating tactic.

You will notice China has been very careful to calibrate its rhetoric against the US and to avoid any action such as dumping treasury bonds.

They are also circumspect on India- no raving and barking like an alley junkie such as over Doklam.

I would not be surprised if India has been assertive in Askai Chin. I would not be surprised if the pentagon is giving them the thumbs up.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 26 May 2020 10:44

We don't need the Pentagon's approval to defend our borders! If they support our actions,we welcome it.
If we show stern defiance and a willingness to stand up to China ,fighting for our land,we will earn respect.If we act like wimps,China wins without a fight.That has been its historic tactic. It is a shitworm of a bully,who tries to coerce smaller states into accepting its diktat. When it meets steel,it backs off.A military clash with India will make Asian nations realise how great the threat is of being swallowed up by China. India,as I've kept reiterating has to bd a magnet for other similarly threatened nations to flock to to defy the Chin global agenda. We must be pro- active.Unfortunately our MEA is so pathetic and subservient that it defies description. We can't even handle relations with Nepal!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kumarn » 26 May 2020 11:27

kancha wrote:This is what I hold to be the way things are likely to progress. Of course, it may not happen that way and you may be right indeed. But the only way to find out for sure is to wait and watch!


kancha ji, excellent analysis. However, there could be a simpler explanation to the chinese action this time. May be we did something somewhere else and they are responding.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Tuan » 26 May 2020 18:07

A Paris, France based Think Tank, FIRM is currently conducting a survey on the China Threat.

Here is the link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/China_Threat

This anonymous survey is part of a project Professor Leslie Shaw is working on with Spectre Global Risk in Washington DC to run a conference on the China Threat on Capitol Hill when life gets back to normal.

The conference will have two panels, one on the economic threat and one on the military threat.

It would be greatly appreciated if BRF members could take a couple of minutes to answer the questions and share the survey with your contacts.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 26 May 2020 18:53

Cheen is turning inward. It knows that its exports are dead.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3085969/chinas-economic-strategy-shift-shows-xi-jinping-preparing


China’s economic strategy shift shows Xi Jinping is preparing for ‘worst case scenario’, analysts say

The Chinese president said that Beijing was pursuing a new development plan, focusing on its domestic market rather than an export-led growth model

China’s economy is under pressure from the coronavirus, as well as escalating trade war and technology tensions with the United States


Frank Tang in Beijing
Published: 10:00pm, 25 May, 2020

China’s move to double down on a pivot away from export-led growth in favour of developing its domestic market reflects a strategic shift by Beijing to prepare for the “worst case scenario” after the coronavirus pandemic, according to analysts.

President Xi Jinping told dozens of top economic advisers in Beijing at the weekend that China was pursuing a new development plan in which “domestic circulation plays the dominant role”.

“For the future, we must treat domestic demand as the starting point and foothold as we accelerate the building of a complete domestic consumption system, and greatly promote innovation in science, technology and other areas,” Xi said in comments published by the official Xinhua News Agency.

Xi’s remarks suggest that Beijing is moving towards giving up the “great international circulation” strategy adopted in the 1990s that helped fuel its growth to become the world’s second-largest economy.

...

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 26 May 2020 23:46

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/now- ... 200526.htm
Now, China's relations with Israel nosedive
Source: ANI, May 26, 2020

The US is learnt to have asked Israel to sever ties with China, especially in areas with security risks.
China's onetime cosy relations with Israel are now in steep decline and in line with a pattern which is emerging from Japan to India where China appears to be on an unexplained path of aggression.
The Jerusalem Post, quoting a United States official with knowledge of talks on the matter, said in a report that Washington, DC had last week asked Israel to sever ties with China, especially in areas with security risks.
Even during his trip to Israel on May 13, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had asked Tel Aviv to reconsider some of its joint projects with Beijing.
The recent pressure from US marks an escalation of the heightened feud between Washington, DC and Beijing over the outbreak of coronavirus pandemic.
It also focuses on the establishment of a more robust review process for foreign investments that could pose risks, and a reduction of reliance on China for emergency equipment in light of the pandemic, jeopardizing ties between Jerusalem and Beijing.
Chinese companies are operating in Israel today in deals reaching more than $20 billion and more is on the way.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 27 May 2020 01:02

Unkil should have cut the Israeli connection years ago. Look at the J-10. It is basically the Lavi which in turn was based on the F-16.

Our Phalcon was originally Israel's project for China not us. So who knows what else was passed from Israel to China?

It is unfortunate but the old German perception of the duplicity of these people is rising again in the Yoo Ess because of this double-faced dealing with Cheen.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 27 May 2020 01:09

That said, the chinis are according the Teutons a privileged position. Krauts are taking advantage of this. (Watch the Japs and Koreans do the same.)

For weeks, the F500 in the US had been clamoring to get people back in Cheen because that is the one place where operations are generating revenues. No answers.

But Germans? Fast track passports, chartered flights and all that. Let's see if they need two weeks of quarantine. Or see if they will make exceptions for zee Germans for that too.

https://apnews.com/f2241b58f342c77d54b7ec23155c166d


German companies flying 200 workers to China in mass return

By JOE McDONALD
today

BEIJING (AP) — A flight carrying about 200 employees of German companies to China is to arrive Saturday in the first mass return of foreign workers since Beijing barred most visitors from overseas two months ago to fight the coronavirus.

The employees obtained visas under a “fast track” program aimed at helping revive the economy, said Jens Hildebrandt, executive director of the German Chamber of Commerce in China. The chamber organized this week’s flight and a second planned for June 3.

“There is huge demand,” Hildebrandt said Tuesday.

China, where the outbreak began in December, stopped admitting most foreigners including those with residence permits on March 28 in an attempt to avoid re-importing the virus. Foreign workers already in the country were allowed to stay and visitors could apply for a visa for a business or other urgent reason. But that left thousands of employees of U.S., European and other foreign companies waiting abroad.

...


https://ajot.com/news/u.s-hits-back-at-chinaas-alleged-attempts-to-restrict-airlines

Growing tensions between the U.S. and China have expanded to the airline industry as the Transportation Department accused its counterpart in Beijing of blocking American carriers’ attempts to resume service there.


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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 27 May 2020 03:40

I asked elsewhere:

For starters look at the China-Pak axis.
What are China's threats: Hong Kong Integration, Taiwan, South China Sea island aggression, OBOR, BRI, CPEC, US-China trade war, Wuhan virus crisis, confrontation with India.
Next look at TSP: Kashmir removed from the table, AH-64s negate armored corps, soon S 400 will remove missile threats, Nuke threat is limited to small yield weapons. Jihadis in Kashmir getting slaughtered. COVID has exposed the Thookers brigade, FATAF sanctions looming. Immy-Military relations are unstable. Balochistan on the brink.

And then we have the US to look at. I leave that for someone else.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 May 2020 03:54

Depending on how serious the US is, such an opportunity to set right historical rights comes once in a generation or two.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 27 May 2020 11:35

The US is right now immersed with domestic politics,CV,and the Nov. election. There is a huge divide on at the moment in the US on thf right road to follow.Trump now is under pressure over CV,and unless he focuses the attention on Biden, the election may end up being a referendum on his performance and not who would be a better pres. Biden can simply sit it out on the sidelines,chew gum and watch Trump defeat himself.

India and its problems with China don't figure at all.US interests,now and forever,will not be to "right historical injustices",
as the US over a century has been " injustice" itself,assassinating,manipulating and corrupting leaders and nations all across the world.Remember uncle Henry K's statement about Noriega? " I know he's a b* stard,but he's our b*stard!" US priorities will be on achieving its own self intetests first.

In any Indo-Sino spat,honestly,what is the max. we can expect from the US? Active military intervention? The most we will get is some intel,plus arms and ammo bought at market prices. What will we get from Russia? More or less the same. There is no "Friendship Pact" today as in '71, to give us insurance against Chin attack,but Russia may be pro-active in assisting us militarily for two reasons.
To bring down China a peg or two,as it tries to dominate world affairs, steal western and Ru mil. tech.,and to ensure that if a spat does take place,Ru original weaponry, will prevail over Chin cheap copies.Add to that the weight of diplomacy and gravitas that fraternal close relations,India traditionally brings.
We have to chart our own course and hit China in all spheres as mentioned before.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 27 May 2020 13:02

sanjaykumar wrote:Depending on how serious the US is, such an opportunity to set right historical rights comes once in a generation or two.


True and it is a temporary window too. This will also partially answer Ramana ji's question on America.

Cheen is exceptionally vulnerable this point in time because it had made itself dependent on the 1) US market, 2) US technology and 3) the US dollar to grow. Former US admins had encouraged this dependency. Trump is cashing in on this -- then cashing out.

Cashing out because once this bolt is fired then inevitable de-coupling means that Unkil's hold over Cheen will disappear. Trump's hope is that the de-coupling process will cripple Cheen for good.

If it doesn't then we will be in a brand new world with a truly independent challenger to Amreeka.

1) US market -- Cheen has turned inward during the chini virus pandemic and it is the only major economy in the world where sales are growing; MNCs are desperately trying to get people in not out; the next 5 year plan prioritizes internal market over exports,

2) US technology -- ongoing assault on Huawei and three dozen other chini hi-tech firms are biggest signs of de-coupling; for Trump's gambit to work Huawei and the other must die; if they survive with American-free production chains then American technology lead weakens; US currently holds the majority of Cheen's commercial chip market, it is removing itself from that market -- the market must die in order for that to be a success,

3) US dollar -- digital yuan is coming; this would wean Cheen off the dollar and it could be one of the great disruptive forces in geo-politics; right now all trade including those from Cheen are run through the dollar and through Amreeki banks and institutions, this is how the US can punish Cheen, India or anyone else for trading with Iran for instance -- it makes American policies everyone else's policies; the digital yuan would bypass the US dollar and those US control levers and even if only the China trade uses it, it will have cascading effects on the global financial system with an alternative to the dollar.

Links to digital yuan below. Cheen's domestic market focus in my previous posts above. Articles on the tech war are many. I can provide some if needed.
https://micky.com.au/china-may-launch-its-crypto-yuan-early-for-covid-19-stimulus/


China may launch its crypto yuan early for COVID-19 stimulus

By Martin Young - May 27, 2020

China may launch its crypto yuan early for COVID-19 stimulus

Industry insiders have hinted that China may accelerate the launch of its central bank digital currency in order to counter potential U.S. threats to Chinese financial institutions.



https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20200527/p2g/00m/0bu/034000c



China trials national digital currency in specific areas

May 27, 2020 (Mainichi Japan)

BEIJING (Kyodo) -- China has been trialing payments of its digital currency in specific areas, the central bank governor said on Tuesday, paving the way for its becoming the first country to establish a national electronic payment system.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rsatchi » 27 May 2020 13:11

chola wrote:Cheen is turning inward. It knows that its exports are dead.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3085969/chinas-economic-strategy-shift-shows-xi-jinping-preparing


China’s economic strategy shift shows Xi Jinping is preparing for ‘worst case scenario’, analysts say

The Chinese president said that Beijing was pursuing a new development plan, focusing on its domestic market rather than an export-led growth model

China’s economy is under pressure from the coronavirus, as well as escalating trade war and technology tensions with the United States


Frank Tang in Beijing
Published: 10:00pm, 25 May, 2020

China’s move to double down on a pivot away from export-led growth in favour of developing its domestic market reflects a strategic shift by Beijing to prepare for the “worst case scenario” after the coronavirus pandemic, according to analysts.

President Xi Jinping told dozens of top economic advisers in Beijing at the weekend that China was pursuing a new development plan in which “domestic circulation plays the dominant role”.

“For the future, we must treat domestic demand as the starting point and foothold as we accelerate the building of a complete domestic consumption system, and greatly promote innovation in science, technology and other areas,” Xi said in comments published by the official Xinhua News Agency.

Xi’s remarks suggest that Beijing is moving towards giving up the “great international circulation” strategy adopted in the 1990s that helped fuel its growth to become the world’s second-largest economy.

...

Cholaji
The whole economy built on cheap exports, alleviating poverty and common folks with pocket full of cash that would be hard to replicate with inward looking!!
This is akin to the 'Long March' and 'Cultural Revolution' combined in the present day
Even with authoritarian rule it would be difficult for Xi to control the masses
If they do this then it would the ideal thing that Kahn would be looking for to accelerate the break up
And even the 'Sarkari Billionaires'( to borrow a phrase from LeLi Gen Shah Naseer's brother :lol: ) wont go along the whole way and would eventually defect to west to protect their moolah
I am not saying that the break up is imminent but this action of Xi will definitely set in motion a series of events that may eventually lead to the break up!! and I sincerely hope to see it in my life time
Even today cant believe USSR is gone after having spent whole childhood and adolescent days reading from my neighbours glossy Soviet journal and awe-struck by the mammoth collective farm vehicles :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 27 May 2020 13:55

Rsatchi wrote:

Cholaji
The whole economy built on cheap exports, alleviating poverty and common folks with pocket full of cash that would be hard to replicate with inward looking!!
This is akin to the 'Long March' and 'Cultural Revolution' combined in the present day
Even with authoritarian rule it would be difficult for Xi to control the masses
If they do this then it would the ideal thing that Kahn would be looking for to accelerate the break up
And even the 'Sarkari Billionaires'( to borrow a phrase from LeLi Gen Shah Naseer's brother :lol: ) wont go along the whole way and would eventually defect to west to protect their moolah
I am not saying that the break up is imminent but this action of Xi will definitely set in motion a series of events that may eventually lead to the break up!! and I sincerely hope to see it in my life time
Even today cant believe USSR is gone after having spent whole childhood and adolescent days reading from my neighbours glossy Soviet journal and awe-struck by the mammoth collective farm vehicles :rotfl: :rotfl:


Ah Satchi Saar, but do you know that Cheen's internal market today is actually bigger than Amreeka's? Why are the Germans mass flying their people into Cheen? Because VW alone sell about as many vehicles in Cheen as the entire Indian passenger car market -- about 3m!

In spite of PPEs, exports are pretty much dead from Cheen and yet their economy is powering forward. Again, MNCs have been seeing sales upticks in Cheen for weeks now. They are the one bright spot in boardroom meetings.

Cheen is a continental size economy. Exports might have jumo started their growth but exports cannot sustain it. Not an economy of that size. And they have the USSR to use as an example of what not to do. They are not communist when it comes to economics. They haven't been for decades.

Hopefully Trump can win this war but most American F500 boardrooms see themselves needing to be in Cheen selling despite the trade war and the calls to move out supply chains. That should tell you how the global business community see the internal Chinese market.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rsatchi » 27 May 2020 14:10

chola wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:Cholaji
The whole economy built on cheap exports, alleviating poverty and common folks with pocket full of cash that would be hard to replicate with inward looking!!
This is akin to the 'Long March' and 'Cultural Revolution' combined in the present day
Even with authoritarian rule it would be difficult for Xi to control the masses
If they do this then it would the ideal thing that Kahn would be looking for to accelerate the break up
And even the 'Sarkari Billionaires'( to borrow a phrase from LeLi Gen Shah Naseer's brother :lol: ) wont go along the whole way and would eventually defect to west to protect their moolah
I am not saying that the break up is imminent but this action of Xi will definitely set in motion a series of events that may eventually lead to the break up!! and I sincerely hope to see it in my life time
Even today cant believe USSR is gone after having spent whole childhood and adolescent days reading from my neighbours glossy Soviet journal and awe-struck by the mammoth collective farm vehicles :rotfl: :rotfl:


Ah Satchi Saar, but do you know that Cheen's internal market today is actually bigger than Amreeka's? Why are the Germans mass flying their people into Cheen? Because VW alone sell about as many vehicles in Cheen as the entire Indian passenger car market -- about 3m!

In spite of PPEs, exports are pretty much dead from Cheen and yet their economy is powering forward. Again, MNCs have been seeing sales upticks in Cheen for weeks now. They are the one bright spot in boardroom meetings.

Cheen is a continental size economy. Exports might have jumo started their growth but exports cannot sustain it. Not an economy of that size. And they have the USSR to use as an example of what not to do. They are not communist when it comes to economics. They haven't been for decades.

Hopefully Trump can win this war but most American F500 boardrooms see themselves needing to be in Cheen selling despite the trade war and the calls to move out supply chains. That should tell you how the global business community see the internal Chinese market.

Saar
People will buy LandRover/Jag/VW if they have money in their pockets!!
And that is happening because of cheap exports!!
If that dries up then dissent would flare up!! 8)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 27 May 2020 14:17

^^^ I applaud your optism! But then they should have collapsed in 2008 and 2020 when exports dried up for them. No, exports are just one of their drivers and not the most important one.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 27 May 2020 16:30

Unlike India, we are talking about a country that constantly teaches about its glorious past and is culturally prepared to see deaths in millions for the civilizational causes. Millions of Chinese have died in last 8 decades and that hasn't resulted in any worthwhile dissent. China also has aging population.

Chinese don't need to amass dollars that they would be concerned about the cheap exports. If anything, they seem to be intentionally gating exports to generate dissent outside China. There are tons of small businesses in US waiting for their stuff to arrive. For example, a boutique supplement guy that I know in US is practically bankrupt because his Chinese manufacturing unit is not being allowed to restart under the excuse of virus.

Chinese were doing what they were doing to get technology parity with the western world. And they are almost there. They don't have to keep trading their environmental resources and lives anymore.

China also has many foreign elections to manipulate. That may also mean delaying cure for the virus as long as possible to change election processes.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 27 May 2020 19:34

^^^ The game being played by the US and Cheen is very messy. On one hand, it is straight forward. The Trump admin is giving up future dominance in the chini market place by trying to crash that market now. But US firms still want to be in that marketplace even as the pressure to remove the supply chains from Cheen increases.

This will have unpredictable consequences especially for third parties like India. The decoupling is forcing Cheen to self-develop technology. It might blunt the chinis' attempt to match Unkil.

But it will also leave them with a whole new set of indigenous capabilities in the tech space that they hadn't had before because they were dependent on the US. And certainly capabilities that India hadn't even started on.

https://technode.com/2020/05/27/tsmc-prepares-for-us-china-chips-decoupling/


In times of geopolitical uncertainty, both governments and companies are trying to diversify their semiconductor supply chain. Because the semiconductor value chain is highly concentrated, US export control measures are highly disruptive.

Huawei’s latest announcement of collaboration with the French-Italian chipmaker STMicroelectronics is one way for Huawei to lessen their reliance on US-origin technology and get on better terms with European governments.

Meanwhile, Intel has just invested in a Chinese EDA company, potentially signaling to the Chinese government that they support a healthy Chinese semiconductor ecosystem.

While the US government is trying to isolate China’s semiconductor industry and prevent some of China’s national champions from making technological advances, corporations are continuing to make investments in a globalized industry.

Many suppliers within the semiconductor value chain will struggle not to fall victim to the tech rivalry between China and the US. This value chain is highly efficient, but not at all resilient, and every new export control measure the US government implements will be met by the Chinese Communist Party with accelerated efforts for self-sufficiency.


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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 27 May 2020 23:07

Trump's tweet offering to mediate between India and China is clumsier than "a bull in a china shop",pardon the pun! It underscores the unreliability of the US as a so-called " strategic ally", in which the current dispensation has invested v.heavily,hoping that the US would silence Pakistan and act as a counterweight to China,supporting India.
In both expectations we've been proverbially " shafted". Pak has not been brought down to its knees ,it is off the hook economically and is the real victor in the Afghan war, thanks to the Americans as I predicted 2 decades ago,would leave Afg.
beating the retreat as it did in Vietnam. It's made a deal with the Taliban though to allow it to exit quietly,not as it did in Saigon! Another Saigon scramble from the embassy rooftop by the valkyries would be history repeating itself ,this time not tragedy but as farce! Pak the godfather of the Taliban naturally is celebrating,while we were well and truly shafted by the US who NEVER allowed us any say in the affairs of Afghanistan. So all our investment in Afg. over decades will have come to naught once the ungodly Talibs take over.

Did anyone really expect the US cavalry come galloping to our rescue in the current stand-off with the ongodliest of all, China? Only the most naieve
of observers could think so. It's all about sales of US arms to India and a willingness to be cannon fodder if a Sino-US dispute hits the fan. We are alone militarily and will have to do any fighting ourselves. We could've put China on the defensive diplomatically
with some pro-active diplomacy garnering international support, and played the Tibet and Taiwan card earrlier,but that bus has left the station some time ago. Playing these cards now are still an option,but the momentum on the ground is with China. We should've prepared for this a long time ago and forced China on the defensive. We now have it threatening us and encroaching across the LAC in 3 locations,a pre-planned move,no excuse of a local commander getting over-excited.So much for the grand red carpet laid out for XI at Mahabalipuram! I told you so that he was all bogus .We are finding out the hard way.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Raveen » 27 May 2020 23:39

Philip wrote:Trump's tweet offering to mediate between India and China is clumsier than "a bull in a china shop",pardon the pun! It underscores the unreliability of the US as a so-called " strategic ally", in which the current dispensation has invested v.heavily,hoping that the US would silence Pakistan and act as a counterweight to China,supporting India.
In both expectations we've been proverbially " shafted". Pak has not been brought down to its knees ,it is off the hook economically and is the real victor in the Afghan war, thanks to the Americans as I predicted 2 decades ago,would leave Afg.
beating the retreat as it did in Vietnam. It's made a deal with the Taliban though to allow it to exit quietly,not as it did in Saigon! Another Saigon scramble from the embassy rooftop by the valkyries would be history repeating itself ,this time not tragedy but as farce! Pak the godfather of the Taliban naturally is celebrating,while we were well and truly shafted by the US who NEVER allowed us any say in the affairs of Afghanistan. So all our investment in Afg. over decades will have come to naught once the ungodly Talibs take over.

Did anyone really expect the US cavalry come galloping to our rescue in the current stand-off with the ongodliest of all, China? Only the most naieve
of observers could think so. It's all about sales of US arms to India and a willingness to be cannon fodder if a Sino-US dispute hits the fan. We are alone militarily and will have to do any fighting ourselves. We could've put China on the defensive diplomatically
with some pro-active diplomacy garnering international support, and played the Tibet and Taiwan card earrlier,but that bus has left the station some time ago. Playing these cards now are still an option,but the momentum on the ground is with China. We should've prepared for this a long time ago and forced China on the defensive. We now have it threatening us and encroaching across the LAC in 3 locations,a pre-planned move,no excuse of a local commander getting over-excited.So much for the grand red carpet laid out for XI at Mahabalipuram! I told you so that he was all bogus .We are finding out the hard way.


Where does the Kremlin stand on all of this, care to share your ground reports?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby khan » 27 May 2020 23:54

IMO, Russians will side with the Chinese, just like they did when China tried to have a UNSC hearing when article 370 was revoked.

I am actually surprised people are expecting anything from Russia. The Russian policy seems to be support China over India and support India over the West for things like Nuclear tests etc.

India might not even get arms and spares for equipment already purchased from Russia if there is a serious China problem.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Raveen » 28 May 2020 00:24

khan wrote:IMO, Russians will side with the Chinese, just like they did when China tried to have a UNSC hearing when article 370 was revoked.

I am actually surprised people are expecting anything from Russia. The Russian policy seems to be support China over India and support India over the West for things like Nuclear tests etc.

India might not even get arms and spares for equipment already purchased from Russia if there is a serious China problem.


Without a doubt - Russia is a nuisance threat that plays the larger game by propping up other nuisances such as China. They lack the might, capability, and the wherewithal to face off against anyone of any significance so they will absolutely side with China just to piss of the US. No special treatment for India - those days are long long gone.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kati » 28 May 2020 03:01

Huawei CFO Meng loses key court fight against extradition to United States

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN233151

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kati » 28 May 2020 03:01

^^^^
Will be interesting to see how the furious Panda behaves now.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kati » 28 May 2020 03:08

Meng Wanzhou loses key court fight, must stay in B.C. to fight extradition

https://globalnews.ca/news/6992243/meng ... -ruling-2/

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kati » 28 May 2020 03:53

Red Panda Uvacha (through Global Times):

Ruling on Meng shows Canada lost judicial, diplomatic independence to US bullying: experts
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1189734.shtml

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kati » 28 May 2020 13:01

US Congress approves China sanctions over ethnic crackdown
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-congress- ... 17134.html

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rsatchi » 28 May 2020 14:17

Kati wrote:US Congress approves China sanctions over ethnic crackdown
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-congress- ... 17134.html

Katiji
All these will set up another 'Cold War' scenario
I am ready to go out on a limb here that any Panda moves on Hong Kong will be the tip of the spear driven deep into mainland
Kahn and others are waiting for gloves to come off and the wheels will be set in motion.
How will 'Dharmic Forces' withstand the pressure from Kahn to pick a side.
Long term (i.e., 10-20 yrs following the fall of Beijing so to speak :D ) will the cycle be repeated in India by Kahn unless we swear unending fealty!! :roll:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Ashokk » 28 May 2020 16:45

#vivaTaiwan: Now, China faces backlash over Taiwan in Brazil
In the post-pandemic era, Beijing must acknowledge that sinophobia is the new normal. China is under the illusion that its arm-twisting methods still work.

However, this time, it’s got a shock in Brazil. The Chinese envoy in Brazil sent a letter to Brazil’s members of Parliament. In the letter, he asked them not to congratulate Taiwan’s president Tsai Ing-wen but one of the MPs leaked the letter on Twitter.

The courageous Congress member Pablo Eduardo Martins called the letter an affront and as one of Brazil’s legislators, he took offence to the diktat.

With the letter, China questioned Brazil’s sovereignty and received a fitting reply.

Pablo Eduardo Martins may have been late in wishing Taiwan’s pro-independence President Tsai Ing-wen but, his wishes were gladly accepted. Tsai In-wen, who was recently sworn in for her second term as the president replied to the tweet herself.

With the tweet, Martins has sparked a Twitter trend- it’s called #vivaTaiwan. Brazilians are standing beside their lawmakers in defending their country’s sovereignty.

The long live Taiwan Twitter trend has schooled China to keep away from a country’s internal matters. An internal report had warned all Chinese officials of a global anti-China backlash. China should have taken its own report seriously.

Now Beijing is unhappy over what’s happening in Brazil. The Chinese state-run media is running an anti-Brazil campaign. It says Brazil’s politicians are trying to scapegoat China for the rapidly worsening economic situation. The article makes it a point to remind Brazil about trade ties.

It is not the first instance of anti-China rhetoric in Brazil. After US President Donald Trump called the coronavirus the Chinese virus, Brazil President Jair Bolsonaro’s son too called it the Chinese virus. China did not take it lightly, in response, the Chinese consul in Rio de Janeiro wrote an op-ed column for the ‘O Globo’ newspaper.

The headline said to value the China-Brazil relations or, face consequences. The consul wrote should any country insist on being China’s enemy, it will be its most sophisticated enemy! China even managed to elicit an apology. President Jair Bolsonaro himself was a strong critic of China during his campaign, he has now gone soft ever since.

In November, he had to ask China to buy Brazilian oil in an auction he thought would fail to attract bidders, perhaps that’s how China manages to tighten its grip over leaders in foreign countries - play a good Samaritan in times of a crisis and then put them in servitude by giving out alms in times of need.

But, #vivaTaiwan has surely taught China an embarrassing lesson. China can pressurise leaders to get its way, but, what if the people in a foreign land defy your power? that’s the power of the freedom of people. Hong Kong and Taiwan are examples enough to show China has no idea what it means.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 28 May 2020 16:56

The second cold war is is definitely up on us.

But then I have no hope for us. US, Russia, China became powerful & bring out the best, by generating the fear of an enemy.

We think "naming an enemy is making one". We believe we don't have to compete and bring out our best, as talking will help.

After all the lesson we took from Doklam was that "being quiet is the solution", not that the Chinese will treat you as enemy.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby m_saini » 28 May 2020 17:38

I think we as a country just don't have it in us to ever get to the level of power of those 3, US russia and China. The moment we face the offensive, such as the one unleashed on China, we'll back down self-flagellate and happily gift away all our advantages. If Huawei was an Indian company, they would've been made to file for bankruptcy either by our sold-out media, judiciary, our intellectuals or by our brothers from ROP and ROL for being islamophobic or hindu nationalist fascists.

Some part of me actually wishes for china to take the US down a couple of notches, preferably tens. We are happy to wait on the tables of our white masters from US but our general populace would never accept china in that restaurant. China is that frankestein we need to be truly powerful if we can ever get out of the mentality of being seen as a 'good boy' by the international community.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 28 May 2020 18:19

Google the manipulator at work. Google certainly doesn't believe that there's any Chinese threat

Google doesn't earn that much money from China but still bends over. Or does it earn indirectly? Or is Google directed to keep tiktok going to allow manipulations? There's more than enough evidence to have tiktok go Tumblr or Reddit way in terms of the content.


Google deletes nearly 7 million negative reviews from Play Store in a week to improve the rating of TikTok

on 20 May, majority of reviews that the app got was 1 star, but now 5 star reviews are highest, while 1 star reviews get a distant second place.
https://www.opindia.com/2020/05/google- ... of-tiktok/

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Ashokk » 28 May 2020 18:52

How China is interfering with YouTube activity
The web is supposed to be free, fair, and neutral, but go to Youtube, and comment Gongfei or Wu Mao in Mandarin. It does not have to be a video, you could comment on a Livestream too. Now, don't be surprised if the phrases are deleted within 15 seconds - it's no abracadabra.
It is the Chinese Communist Party controlling your lives in ways you didn't even know. Gongfei means Communist bandit and the translation for Wu Mao is 50 cent party - both phrases are insults for the Communist Party of China and Xi Jinping's men are systematically filtering criticism from online platforms.
Youtube on its part says it's a case of accidental censorship, meaning, the phrases were accidentally added to Youtube's comment filters, if that's the case then why did it go unnoticed for six long months? Some users say comments were being deleted as early as October last year. The case only becomes more curious.
Did you know Youtube isn't even available in China and it is no accidental censorship. It is a clear case of China trying to interfere with freedom of speech and expression even outside its soil.

China has done it before, and it is doing it again. The Dragon's nefarious game is no longer a secret. Beijing tried to shape the worldview of social media users through Tiktok and it was exposed.
China deployed a troll army on Twitter, the milk-tea alliance shooed them home and now it is not surprising that the Dragon has deployed bots to filter Youtube comments.

Youtube's parent company Google has a history of selling out its principles to China. In 2018, it was working on project Dragonfly. It was a search engine in compliance with Chinese state censorship. The news was leaked, and the project had to be terminated in 2019.

It's been almost a year now, and cozying up to Chinese censors once again may be Google's best bet at entering the Chinese market.


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