Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
vinod
BRFite
Posts: 746
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby vinod » 08 Aug 2020 04:17

Aam lizard.. Or Aam liz

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4233
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby KLNMurthy » 08 Aug 2020 05:17

vinod wrote:Aam lizard.. Or Aam liz


Aam Lizzie sounds good to me.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4233
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby KLNMurthy » 08 Aug 2020 05:23

TKiran wrote:When is the appropriate time to open "Tibet" card?
...

There are many ways to play the Tibet card. Indian Army has been maintaining a clandestine irregular Tibetan commando force ever since the BD war IIRC. We could make it official and raise an official Tibetan Battalion as part of one of the Mountain Corps, complete with its own Ghatak companies. And sign a "Treaty of Mutual Friendship and Cooperation" with the Dharmasala government. Tibetans are not the soft weepy victims that they are often portrayed to be. They are warriors at their core. Smiley-face HH Dalai Lama has a core of steel.

Modi won't do all this. What is needed in India is a political formation that is to the "right" of Modi, one that co-operates with him on issues, but has its own political perspective and stance. That will shift the Overton Window of what is possible with Tibet.

rajpa
BRFite
Posts: 395
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 09:35
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby rajpa » 08 Aug 2020 07:42

vinod wrote:Aam lizard.. Or Aam liz


Ah that beats my Aam Dragon by a whisker. Too good.

I am willing to share credits :mrgreen:

DavidD
BRFite
Posts: 930
Joined: 23 Jun 2010 04:08

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby DavidD » 08 Aug 2020 12:00

chetak wrote:
pankajs wrote:So much for the overland route vs Sea route to Europe.

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1291589366796582912


one wonders where is the market for such a huge dry port to service post COVID and also, post the growing wave of pent up resentment that is now starting to build against the hans.

It won't be long before some sort of US sanctions regime, unofficial though it may be, is announced.

I think that trump "withdrawing the US from its global leadership role" may have been just to lull the hans into speeding up their OBOR/BRI investments, especially in a downward trending economic situation.

the hans cannot continue to flex their military muscles so forcefully anymore, especially when their economic clout is being significantly erroded in multiple markets, almost on a daily basis.

Their internal situation is not so great either.


It may end up a white elephant, or it may not. We won't really know until many years down the line. The Chinese philosophy on infrastructure is fundamentally different from the Western philosophy. In China, the saying goes that if you want a place to get rich, build a road to it. In the West the focus is on connecting already wealthy areas to further enrich them.

Your question reflects the Western thinking. Where's the market for such a huge dry port, you ask? The Chinese would ask, how could there be a market without such a huge dry port?

I'm not saying this as if the Chinese thinking is superior, because it's not. It's just different. Some of these projects will inevitably end up as white elephants. Whether this strategy works will depend on the ratio of white elephants vs the amount of economic activity it stimulates. Get the ratio wrong, and it might very well end up a gigantic waste of resources.

You also have to consider it in the context of OBOR's goal. It's been painted as many things, export of excess capacity, creation of markets for Chinese exports, debt trap to grab foreign land/assets, etc. These are all peanuts, not worth trillions of investment. The true goal of China IMO is to integrate China so deeply into the global supply chain that it's impossible to avoid trading with China, however protectionist you want to get.

OBOR is just one wing of this strategy. You can see other wings if you look closely. Australia may have banned Huawei and chosen Ericsson, but Ericsson's gear for Australia will be made in China. Some manufacturers may have substituted Chinese imports with Vietnamese imports, but Vietnam is almost entirely dependent on Chinese imports to make their exports. OBOR's aim is to expand such reach beyond China, integrating more and more economies within a sino-centric supply chain, making many Vietnams out of China's periphery and beyond.

In the end, OBOR is just a phrase, like Communism is just a word. The CCP can call itself whatever it wants, but it sure isn't communist. You can label a country or a deal as part a part of OBOR or not, but if you're integrating with China's supply chain, you're complicit in accomplishing its aim. Countries around the world are coming around to this, and you can see the push back with the latest being India.

This will be a struggle to watch for our lifetime, and I sure am not arrogant enough to assume that I know how this will turn out.

rajpa
BRFite
Posts: 395
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 09:35
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby rajpa » 08 Aug 2020 12:27

Common Lizard

(Common Man equivalent)
Derivatives:
CommieLiz
ComLizzie
CommonLi

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3889
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 08 Aug 2020 12:38

There is no special Chinese way of "thinking" in building random ports. it is been built on loans backed by sovereign guarantees. Which country wouldn't like to give loan, on sovereign guaranty, with contract given to it's own companies?

Other countries don't do it because they prefer not to sink them in to debt. African countries, Pakistan, Maldives, Srilanka, there are enough examples of the "Chinese way of infrastructure". :roll:

These countries won't get loan from IMF or World bank for such projects, because they cannot put a business case and invariably run in to debt.

China is not doing them a favor.

Within China, the infra is driven by massive Chinese gov deficit. The exports help service these deficit. Not to mention the regular financial scam in "peer to peer" lending.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14553
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 08 Aug 2020 12:43

Watch the ebmedded video for explanation ... seems to gel with report that another purge is underway.

https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/statu ... 4039849984
Watch the moment of Chinese Premier #LiKeqiang being humiliated publicly by #XiJinping and Vice Premier #LiuHe How could this happen? Is the #CCP's split so severe that they can no longer hide it? Is a coup looming?

amar_p
BRFite
Posts: 505
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby amar_p » 08 Aug 2020 12:54

Good post DavidD.

There is growing support in Europe for the idea of de-growth, and public sentiment is slowly building in favour of a non-GDP driven view of the economy, one that produces and consumes not just "more" but "the same or less" more responsibly, more locally, generates less waste, encourages energy efficiency, pollutes less and better integrates with nature.

Such a broad societal thinking has started to take root, even after discounting Greta warming alarmists & Collapsology doomsdayers.

The Covid-19 forced confinement has definitely made people take a pause and reflect on what they have been pursuing all these years and why? More and more people have discovered that running at a slower pace helps you take in the life's scenery better than rushing headlong frenetically into the unknown for reasons unspecified, as the developed world has been doing for over half a century.

This change of consumption attitude IMO can develop, over time, into an antidote to the Chinese goods driven conspicuous consumption economies we live in today.

Chinese economy is so fudged, over leveraged, corrupt and export dependent that even a sustained 10-15% drop in demand over 4-5 years will make the whole facade collapse like a pack of cards.

darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2721
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 08 Aug 2020 17:17

Environmental destruction caused by US and China is something that many overlook.


CommonLi makes a good one. CommonLi backstabs. CommonLi lies. CommonLi destroys earth.....

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 735
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Mollick.R » 09 Aug 2020 00:13

US sanctions: Huawei may soon run out of smartphone chips

Chinese tech giant Huawei is running out of processor chips to make smartphones due to US sanctions and will be forced to stop production of its own most advanced chips, a company executive says, in a sign of growing damage to Huawei’s business from American pressure.
.
.
Production of Kirin chips designed by Huawei's own engineers will stop Sept. 15 because they are made by contractors that need U.S. manufacturing technology, said Richard Yu, president of the company’s consumer unit. He said Huawei lacks the ability to make its own chips.

“This is a very big loss for us,” Yu said Friday at an industry conference, China Info 100, according to a video recording of his comments posted on multiple websites.
.
.
“Unfortunately, in the second round of U.S. sanctions, our chip producers only accepted orders until May 15. Production will close on Sept. 15,” Yu said. “This year may be the last generation of Huawei Kirin high-end chips.”

More broadly, Huawei’s smartphone production has “no chips and no supply,” Yu said.


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/technology/us-sanctions-huawei-may-soon-run-out-of-smartphone-chips-5665931.html

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1553
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Gyan » 09 Aug 2020 01:14

amar_p wrote:Good post DavidD.

There is growing support in Europe for the idea of de-growth, and public sentiment is slowly building in favour of a non-GDP driven view of the economy, one that produces and consumes not just "more" but "the same or less" more responsibly, more locally, generates less waste, encourages energy efficiency, pollutes less and better integrates with nature.

Such a broad societal thinking has started to take root, even after discounting Greta warming alarmists & Collapsology doomsdayers.

The Covid-19 forced confinement has definitely made people take a pause and reflect on what they have been pursuing all these years and why? More and more people have discovered that running at a slower pace helps you take in the life's scenery better than rushing headlong frenetically into the unknown for reasons unspecified, as the developed world has been doing for over half a century.

This change of consumption attitude IMO can develop, over time, into an antidote to the Chinese goods driven conspicuous consumption economies we live in today.

Chinese economy is so fudged, over leveraged, corrupt and export dependent that even a sustained 10-15% drop in demand over 4-5 years will make the whole facade collapse like a pack of cards.



Chinese manufacturing encouraged by US brands distorted world wide Consumption patterns. For any population base, Real Estate & basic necessity like food & fuel should be cheap while Consumer Durables can be taxed high.

But guess whats happening in modern economy?
Last edited by Gyan on 09 Aug 2020 13:02, edited 1 time in total.

sudarshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2428
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 08:56

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sudarshan » 09 Aug 2020 01:25

amar_p wrote:Good post DavidD.

...

Chinese economy is so fudged, over leveraged, corrupt and export dependent that even a sustained 10-15% drop in demand over 4-5 years will make the whole facade collapse like a pack of cards.


@CyranoDB - you may not be aware, but AFAIK DavidD is a Chinese poster. I can't speak for him, but I think (judging by posting history) he might be coming at it from the opposite view of the last line in your post. Just saying.

DavidD
BRFite
Posts: 930
Joined: 23 Jun 2010 04:08

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby DavidD » 09 Aug 2020 01:57

sudarshan wrote:
amar_p wrote:Good post DavidD.

...

Chinese economy is so fudged, over leveraged, corrupt and export dependent that even a sustained 10-15% drop in demand over 4-5 years will make the whole facade collapse like a pack of cards.


@CyranoDB - you may not be aware, but AFAIK DavidD is a Chinese poster. I can't speak for him, but I think (judging by posting history) he might be coming at it from the opposite view of the last line in your post. Just saying.


Not really, I think what he said is true and it's certainly a major threat to the Chinese economy. There's a reason China is strongly encouraging internal consumption, probably in an attempt to continue that model when much of the world are showing signs of shying away from it.

I see plenty of cracks in the Chinese economy, much of that he's already mentioned, and while I can't say that it'll come crashing down like a house of cards there are numerous and mounting obstacles in the years ahead.

sudarshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2428
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 08:56

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sudarshan » 09 Aug 2020 02:46

^ OK thanks for clarifying.

amar_p
BRFite
Posts: 505
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby amar_p » 09 Aug 2020 12:57

Encouraging internal consumption will only work partially since the money to spend is fuelled by export revenue, even if the Chinese have a much higher rate of savings than the west.

Real estate is a big driver of GDP in growing/developing economies and is a good indicator of consumption trends. Construction generates huge demand for equipment, raw materials, electricals, common infrastructure etc and when people move in, it triggers a second wave of consumption of appliances, a/cs, furniture and fittings to make it liveable. Increased living space and change in life style trigger a third wave of consumption of non-essential goods & gadgets over time.

Though reliable statistics are hard to come by, the general consensus seems to be that after the peak in 2014, there is a marked downward trend of delivered floor space in China. There are several reports of a gult in the market with thousand of unoccupied buildings all over the country, and many buyers are wary of "tofu" buildings that are so shoddily constructed they can barely stand after a few years.

Building permits and buying permits are Govt controlled, RE financing is not market driven, presumably according to targets set by CCP and decorrelated from real demand to please the bosses. But buying still has to be done by the people (so far). Covid crisis will definitely pull the market further down.

The flood situation will again erode buyer's confidence, food prices will go up, people will save to be able to feed themselves first and find/rebuild shelter next. All in all, a grim situation.

Not the moment to pick a fight with India I'd say.

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 847
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rsatchi » 09 Aug 2020 13:16

China has threatened for deletion of the video
https://youtu.be/-zPPD8lQSEk
A friend sent me this video
Eerie similarities with 1930-1945 events to Xi's behaviour

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14553
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 09 Aug 2020 14:04

https://twitter.com/Cold_Peace_/status/ ... 7751476224
Jeff M. Smith @Cold_Peace_

India has come a long way.

New Delhi led the global charge against China's Belt and Road Initiative, eventually bringing other democracies along with it. It led the charge in banning Tik Tok. And it was among the first countries to raise red flags about Huawei over a decade ago.
Jeff M. Smith @Cold_Peace_

"Zhang and his investors were confident the concerns of the [USG] could be resolved without ByteDance having to spin off TikTok. But things changed quickly after India outright banned the app at the end of June...investors started hearing a different message from the White House"


This is how Indian decision changed the fate of TikTok.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1736
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby schinnas » 09 Aug 2020 16:08

Deleted as duplicate post.
Last edited by schinnas on 09 Aug 2020 16:13, edited 1 time in total.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1736
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby schinnas » 09 Aug 2020 16:12

Modi sarkar banning Cheeni apps had a much bigger financial impact on them than the revenues of these companies in India. One of China's major plan was digital domination of the world..more ambitious plan than BRI but wasn't public.

India is the world's second largest smartphone market and capturing India and US markets was critical for the success of this plan. By banning all Chinese apps, India put paid to the digital ambitions of China. Trump govt rode on this and is banning TikTok and WeChat. For India, this is a great blessing as it enables Indian digital startups to grow.

The investment Google made to Jio is also to counter the stranglehold of Chinese OEM makers on the low end smartphones.

India's efforts to decouple from Chinese economy will take some time but it is being done in a well thought out manner. Indian industry needs to step up to the plate.

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 1818
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby yensoy » 09 Aug 2020 17:11

amar_p wrote:Building permits and buying permits are Govt controlled, RE financing is not market driven, presumably according to targets set by CCP and decorrelated from real demand to please the bosses. But buying still has to be done by the people (so far)...
Not the moment to pick a fight with India I'd say.

All that you say is correct. But in China there are 2 things which further propel the real-estate particle accelerator's impact to the economy:
1. All land is government owned. In fact, local governments rely heavily on 75 and 99 year land leases to generate revenue since Beijing has other uses for tax dollars such as building a fleet of aircraft carriers.
2. The reason the government got to own all the land is because they confiscated and dispossessed their citizenry of land and building assets during the aftermath of the revolution. Even today, a large fraction of Chinese do not own houses and their one aim in life is to own a house. A male non-houseowner has very little prospect of finding a mate, and you can imagine the societal pressures that people are under to own their own home.

As a result, the impact of real estate on the Chinese is hugely magnified compared with other countries. In India it's perfectly ok for a young family to rent a flat for extended periods of time. The benefits of real estate development accrue to builders and the post development ecosystem, and rarely to the local governments.

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 1818
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby yensoy » 09 Aug 2020 17:19

schinnas wrote:Modi sarkar banning Cheeni apps had a much bigger financial impact on them than the revenues of these companies in India. One of China's major plan was digital domination of the world..more ambitious plan than BRI but wasn't public.

Absolutely!

In the app market, it's not the profitability of the app or company that counts. It's not even the revenue. It's the access to user information which can be parleyed into legit revenue streams like advertising, semi-legit streams like targeted marketing and wholly illicit purposes like shadowing the person or influencing society at large. With firm grips on social media, it would be convenient to the Chinese to manipulate people and political parties. I am very glad this hole was shut down.

While now American companies control the bulk of Indian social media, there is a big difference (i) US companies have strong code of ethics and publicly stated policies on user data which they are willing to fight for, (ii) there are enough Indians working in such companies who would raise a red flag if there was a national security threat, (iii) companies will not collude and therefore data and user profiles would remain separate and (iv) if the USGovt raised a request, there would be an open process.

Arima
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 95
Joined: 05 Apr 2018 14:45

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Arima » 09 Aug 2020 19:12

yensoy wrote:
schinnas wrote:Modi sarkar banning Cheeni apps had a much bigger financial impact on them than the revenues of these companies in India. One of China's major plan was digital domination of the world..more ambitious plan than BRI but wasn't public.

Absolutely!

In the app market, it's not the profitability of the app or company that counts. It's not even the revenue. It's the access to user information which can be parleyed into legit revenue streams like advertising, semi-legit streams like targeted marketing and wholly illicit purposes like shadowing the person or influencing society at large. With firm grips on social media, it would be convenient to the Chinese to manipulate people and political parties. I am very glad this hole was shut down.

While now American companies control the bulk of Indian social media, there is a big difference (i) US companies have strong code of ethics and publicly stated policies on user data which they are willing to fight for, (ii) there are enough Indians working in such companies who would raise a red flag if there was a national security threat, (iii) companies will not collude and therefore data and user profiles would remain separate and (iv) if the USGovt raised a request, there would be an open process.



Govt should ban those cheen apps which asks people to pay money like illicit dating apps, play rummy kind. gullible people may get hooked in our country which has huge bottom of the pyramid crowd, not sure how many crores these companies are making.
is there is any stats of those till date??

darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2721
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 09 Aug 2020 20:18

Govt should also go after apps and platforms that harbor
Hinduphobic material.

darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2721
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 09 Aug 2020 23:04

Qualcomm lobbies U.S. to sell chips for Huawei 5G phones: WSJ
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-qual ... SKCN2540Q9
(Reuters) - Chipmaker Qualcomm Inc is lobbying the U.S. government to revoke restrictions on sale of components to Huawei Technologies Co [HWT.UL], after the Chinese company was blacklisted by the United States, The Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.

darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2721
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 10 Aug 2020 09:21

China now blocks all encrypted HTTPS traffic that uses TLS 1.3 and ESNI
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/08/chin ... -esni.html
The Chinese government has rolled out an update to its national censorship tool, known as the Great Firewall (GFW), to block encrypted HTTPS connections that are set up using modern and resilient protocols and technologies. to interceptions.

The ban has been in place for at least a week, since the end of July, according to a joint report released this week by three organizations tracking Chinese censorship – iYouPort, the University of Maryland and the Great Firewall Report.

TKiran
BRFite
Posts: 953
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 00:22

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 10 Aug 2020 13:45

https://mobile.twitter.com/Chellaney/st ... 7393736705


Brahma Chellaney
@Chellaney
·
Aug 9
Replying to
@Chellaney
India has neither named and shamed China, nor taken it to international fora, nor taken a Cabinet or Parliamentary resolution against China, nor issued any declaration asking corporate entities and small businesses to scale down trade with China. Only media has turned TRP rabid.

Brahma Chellaney
@Chellaney
·
Aug 9
The only way China will roll back its encroachments is if the costs become unbearable. Modi's steps so far have been designed more to assuage public anger at home than to seriously punish China. These figures suggest China is reaping rewards of aggression.
Quote Tweet

Global Times
@globaltimesnews

China state-affiliated media
· Aug 8
Boycotting Chinese products? #China's exports to #India increased to $5.6 billion in July, from $4.78 billion in June, Chinese customs data showed.

[img]
https://mobile.twitter.com/globaltimesn ... 29/photo/1
[/img]



pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14553
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 10 Aug 2020 14:00

China has nothing to worry then! Why is Gobar times whining for the past 2+ months ... :rotfl:

RaviB
BRFite
Posts: 197
Joined: 09 Jun 2020 14:32

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby RaviB » 10 Aug 2020 17:22

TKiran wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/Chellaney/status/1292177427393736705


Brahma Chellaney
@Chellaney
<snip>
Aug 9
The only way China will roll back its encroachments is if the costs become unbearable. Modi's steps so far have been designed more to assuage public anger at home than to seriously punish China. These figures suggest China is reaping rewards of aggression.
Quote Tweet



This India Today article gives a bit more context, while confirming Gobar Times' point

https://www.indiatoday.in/business/stor ... 2020-08-09

Mainland China's exports to India since January 2020 have fallen by 24.7 per cent year-on-year to $32.28 billion, customs data from the Chinese government has shown. This comes at a time when the call to boycott Chinese products has amplified sharply in India since May after the India-China border face-off in Galwan.

China's imports from India have also gone up 6.7 per cent since January this year to $11.09 billion. Consequently, total trade with India has registered a slightly lower 18.6 per cent drop since the beginning of 2020 to at $43.47 billion. However, in July China's exports saw a slight jump to $5.6 billion, up from $4.79 billion in June, 2020.


A large amount of the drop would of course be due to Covid19 related economic slowdown

darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2721
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 10 Aug 2020 17:43

Chinese election manipulation tools were put to death. That's a much bigger step for a democratic country where elections are held and for a country where all main opposition is controlled by chinese thru MoU, money, and/or minorities.

As seen by UPA government destroying all war preparations after coming to power, it's not as easy as let's do this or that at govt level. It's all at people level in democracy. Import snowball and instillation of wasteful culture that took hold during UPA days won't be that easy to get rid of without public anger against chinese causing every party's election manifesto to be anti chinese. So far opposition hasn't brought out any anti chinese ideas to rile up public. When this GoI took over, Indian militaries probably didn't have war reserves to take on an enemy. This GoI put one their best in Parikkar to fix things instead of at some other place. And there's plenty to fix all across the board within three years before changing things for next elections.

Public opinion needs to steadily get to anti chinese. We haven't even seen RaGaXi burning MoU between china and Congress yet or demand this GoI to take various anti china permanent steps or modify congress manifesto to list anti china steps that they will take, ....

Till then to send message home, current GoI can start enforcing all Indian laws on entities importing from china. Put everyone from customs to income tax department to task. If you import from China, all your activities would be under microscope.

darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2721
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 10 Aug 2020 18:24

Andaman and Nicobar Islands get fast internet: PM Modi inaugurates submarine OFC connectivity between Chennai and Port Blair
https://www.opindia.com/2020/08/andaman ... j-pm-modi/
PM Modi on 10th August inaugurated the much-awaited Submarine Optical Fibre Cable (OFC) between Chennai and Port Blair via video conferencing. The foundation of the project was laid down in December 2018 by PM Modi to ensure high-speed internet connectivity for the residents of Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

While remembering the Islands’ importance in Independence movement and it’s relations to Neta Ji Subhash Chandra Bose, PM Modi talked about how this Submarine OFC and other projects will help in boosting the economy in the Islands.

anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1865
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby anmol » 10 Aug 2020 18:37

Huawei to Halt Smartphone Chipset Production

Thanks to withering U.S. sanctions, smartphone giant Huawei this week said that it will have to halt production of its own chipsets, which rely on partnerships with U.S.-based businesses.

“After September 15, we will neither be able to produce our flagship chipsets nor our chips with AI processing capabilities,” Huawei CFO Yu Chengdong said at a technology innovation event in Shenzhen Friday, as reported by Caixin Global, a Chinese media publication. “This is a huge loss to us.” [..]


Qualcomm Wants Huawei’s Phone Chipset Business

Mobile chipmaking giant Qualcomm has petitioned the U.S. government to let it provide smartphone chipsets to Huawei, the China-based telecommunications giant. The rationale is solid: By cutting off the firm, which makes more smartphones than any other company besides Samsung, from U.S.-based technology firms, the government is taking $8 billion in revenues from them every year. [..]

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4233
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 Aug 2020 01:00

DavidD wrote:
...
It may end up a white elephant, or it may not. We won't really know until many years down the line. The Chinese philosophy on infrastructure is fundamentally different from the Western philosophy. In China, the saying goes that if you want a place to get rich, build a road to it. In the West the focus is on connecting already wealthy areas to further enrich them.

Your question reflects the Western thinking. Where's the market for such a huge dry port, you ask? The Chinese would ask, how could there be a market without such a huge dry port?

I'm not saying this as if the Chinese thinking is superior, because it's not. It's just different. Some of these projects will inevitably end up as white elephants. Whether this strategy works will depend on the ratio of white elephants vs the amount of economic activity it stimulates. Get the ratio wrong, and it might very well end up a gigantic waste of resources.

You also have to consider it in the context of OBOR's goal. It's been painted as many things, export of excess capacity, creation of markets for Chinese exports, debt trap to grab foreign land/assets, etc. These are all peanuts, not worth trillions of investment. The true goal of China IMO is to integrate China so deeply into the global supply chain that it's impossible to avoid trading with China, however protectionist you want to get.

OBOR is just one wing of this strategy. You can see other wings if you look closely. Australia may have banned Huawei and chosen Ericsson, but Ericsson's gear for Australia will be made in China. Some manufacturers may have substituted Chinese imports with Vietnamese imports, but Vietnam is almost entirely dependent on Chinese imports to make their exports. OBOR's aim is to expand such reach beyond China, integrating more and more economies within a sino-centric supply chain, making many Vietnams out of China's periphery and beyond.

In the end, OBOR is just a phrase, like Communism is just a word. The CCP can call itself whatever it wants, but it sure isn't communist. You can label a country or a deal as part a part of OBOR or not, but if you're integrating with China's supply chain, you're complicit in accomplishing its aim. Countries around the world are coming around to this, and you can see the push back with the latest being India.

This will be a struggle to watch for our lifetime, and I sure am not arrogant enough to assume that I know how this will turn out.

That sounds a little bit like saying, the Chinese are the Borg, they will assimilate everything and everyone, and all of our bases belong them.

Maybe the Chinese want to be the Borg, and want all of our bases belong to them. But they are not the Borg. They are humans, and have to work with human systems, the same systems that are available to anyone with the will to use them.

Nothing prevents Indian capitalists or global anti-Chinese conglomerates, from playing the same game--take over the supply chains and relocate them out of China. If China can inject itself into the crevices of all supply chains, someone else can do the same thing and displace China.

It may not be profitable currently to actively crush Chinese dominance of the supply chain, but if the Chinese keep raising the tangible and intangible costs of that same supply chain, they will cross the break-even threshold for their current frenemies. (It is a telling measure of how high the intangible costs of Chinese supply chains are, that the Chinese have only worthless sycophants (Pakistan) or frenemies (the rest of the world, probably even including North Korea)).

Then, sure, let's watch the fun and see what happens.

DavidD
BRFite
Posts: 930
Joined: 23 Jun 2010 04:08

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby DavidD » 11 Aug 2020 10:30

KLNMurthy wrote:
That sounds a little bit like saying, the Chinese are the Borg, they will assimilate everything and everyone, and all of our bases belong them.

Maybe the Chinese want to be the Borg, and want all of our bases belong to them. But they are not the Borg. They are humans, and have to work with human systems, the same systems that are available to anyone with the will to use them.

Nothing prevents Indian capitalists or global anti-Chinese conglomerates, from playing the same game--take over the supply chains and relocate them out of China. If China can inject itself into the crevices of all supply chains, someone else can do the same thing and displace China.

It may not be profitable currently to actively crush Chinese dominance of the supply chain, but if the Chinese keep raising the tangible and intangible costs of that same supply chain, they will cross the break-even threshold for their current frenemies. (It is a telling measure of how high the intangible costs of Chinese supply chains are, that the Chinese have only worthless sycophants (Pakistan) or frenemies (the rest of the world, probably even including North Korea)).

Then, sure, let's watch the fun and see what happens.


In case I didn't make it clear in my post, I'm not commenting on the soundness of the strategy, just that it's what I believe to be the strategy.

Like you said, others will push back and in fact already are. How successful each side will be will depend on their execution of the strategy.

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4701
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 11 Aug 2020 10:56

https://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/Asia/T ... anker.html

Taiwan Detains Chinese Oil Tanker
By Charles Kennedy - Aug 10, 2020, 10:00 AM CDT

Taiwan has detained a Chinese tanker for allegedly illegal entry into its territorial waters, Taiwanese media report, adding that the six-member crew has been arrested.

Taiwan has stepped up coast guard patrols off the western coast of the country to limit the spread of the novel coronavirus. Media reports said that the crew of the Chinese tanker, which has remained unnamed, were tested for any outward signs of infection, but none were found.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14553
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 11 Aug 2020 12:10

https://twitter.com/Cold_Peace_/status/ ... 9485978624
Jeff M. Smith @Cold_Peace_

"Huawei built a data center in Papua New Guinea, which exposed secret gov't files to being stolen."

"remote access would not be detected by security settings within the appliances."

"this year PNG was calling the project a failure"

PNG now $53m in debt.

https://www.afr.com/companies/telecommu ... 810-p55k7w
Huawei data centre built to spy on PNG

PNG = Papua New Guinea

Ashokk
BRFite
Posts: 665
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Ashokk » 11 Aug 2020 23:14

I-T department raids Chinese individuals, local contacts in Rs 1,000-crore money laundering case
NEW DELHI: The income tax (I-T) department has conducted raids against some Chinese individuals and their local associates for allegedly indulging in a money laundering racket involving Rs 1,000 crore using shell or dubious firms, the Central Board of Direct Taxes (CBDT) said on Tuesday.
It said the "subsidiary of Chinese company and its related concerns have taken over Rs 100 crore bogus advances from shell entities for opening businesses of retail showrooms in India".
The CBDT, that frames policy for the tax department, said the searches were launched based on credible inputs that a few Chinese individuals and their Indian associates were involved in money laundering and hawala transactions through a series of shell entities.
Some bank officials were also raided, it said.
"Search action revealed that at the behest of Chinese individuals, more than 40 bank accounts were created in various dummy entities, entering into credits of more than Rs 1,000 crore over the period," it said in a statement without identifying the entities involved.
"Incriminating documents of hawala transactions and money laundering with active involvement of bank employees and Chartered Accountants have been found as a result of the search action," it said.
Evidences of foreign hawala transactions involving Hong Kong and US dollars have also been unearthed, the CBDT said.

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4701
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 12 Aug 2020 18:06

https://m.economictimes.com/news/intern ... 504126.cms


Trade war fallout: China’s days as factory to the world are over, iPhone maker says


By Debby Wu

A key supplier to Apple Inc. and a dozen other tech giants plans to split its supply chain between the Chinese market and the U.S., declaring that China’s time as factory to the world is finished because of the trade war.

Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. Chairman Young Liu said it’s gradually adding more capacity outside of China, the main base of production for gadgets from iPhones to Dell desktops and Nintendo Switches. The proportion outside the country is now at 30%, up from 25% last June.

That ratio will rise as the company -- known also as Foxconn -- moves more manufacturing to Southeast Asia and other regions to avoid escalating tariffs on Chinese-made goods headed to U.S. markets, Liu told reporters after his company reported financial results.

“No matter if it’s India, Southeast Asia or the Americas, there will be a manufacturing ecosystem in each,” Liu said, adding that while China will still play a key role in Foxconn’s manufacturing empire, the country’s “days as the world’s factory are done.”

Intensifying trade tensions between Washington and Beijing have pushed device manufacturers to diversify their production bases away from China, and Liu last year said that Apple’s most prized product, the iPhone, can be made outside China if needed. The two nations remain in trade talks, but Liu’s comments affirm a growing expectation that the China-centric electronics supply chain will fragment over the longer term.

The Taiwanese company reported better-than-expected net income of NT$22.9 billion ($778 million) for the quarter ended in June, boosted by increased demand for iPads and MacBooks. Revenue was NT$1.13 trillion, but Hon Hai warned it expects its third-quarter sales will be down by double digits relative to 2019 as Apple delays its iPhone launch this year.

Hon Hai is bouncing back from a record profit slump in the first quarter as production at its factories recovered and shelter-in-place orders spurred demand for home computing equipment. The pandemic likely boosted iPad and Mac sales, even as Apple store closures weighed on iPhone sales, Apple CEO Tim Cook said on July 31 after reporting quarterly revenue that crushed estimates. Apple accounts for half of Hon Hai’s sales.

Even as Apple outperformed, Hon Hai’s other customers have fared less well. Hong Kong-listed subsidiary FIH Mobile Ltd. said in its Aug. 7 earnings release that while Huawei Technologies Co.’s new phones have been popular in China, they missed expectations elsewhere following U.S. sanctions. Another key customer Xiaomi Corp. suffered a backlash in the Indian market amid growing tensions between China and the South Asian country. FIH lost $100 million in the first half.

Foxconn has been shaking up its traditionally China-focused operations. Hon Hai is among Apple assembly partners that plan to expand operations in India, potentially helping the iPhone maker grow its presence in the country of 1.3 billion and shift some of the U.S. company’s supply chain outside of China as ties between Washington and Beijing fray.

Chinese rivals are also posing a growing challenge. Local electronics titan Luxshare Precision Industry Co. is poised to become the first Chinese homegrown iPhone assembler after sealing a deal in July to buy an Apple handset production plant from Wistron Corp. While Hon Hai will keep assembly orders for premium iPhones, Luxshare will eat into the business for mid-to-entry-level Apple handsets, Fubon Securities analyst Arthur Liao wrote in a July 23 note.

Foxconn will work on its component business to maintain tech leadership and it also benefits from its long-term relationship with Apple, Liu said in response to several analysts’ questions about Foxconn’s competitive strategy against the rising Chinese supplier.

Orders could be further affected after President Donald Trump issued an executive order barring U.S. residents from doing business with Tencent Holdings Ltd.’s WeChat. Annual iPhone shipments could plunge 25%-30% if Apple is forced to remove the app from its app stores worldwide, TF International Securities analyst Kuo Ming-chi warned in an August 9 note.

chanakyaa
BRFite
Posts: 1389
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 00:09
Location: Hiding in Karakoram

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chanakyaa » 13 Aug 2020 18:42

Apple, Ford, and Walmart lobbying against WeChat ban
"For those who don't live in China, they don't understand how vast the implications are if American companies aren't allowed to use it"

What you need to know

U.S. companies are lobbying against an executive order targeting WeChat.
Apple, Ford, and Walmart were all on a call with the White House on Tuesday.
Companies are worried it could undermine their competitiveness in China.
...

Kati
BRFite
Posts: 1413
Joined: 27 Jun 1999 11:31
Location: The planet Earth

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kati » 13 Aug 2020 21:52

State Department to Require Chinese ‘Confucius Institutes’ to Register as Foreign Agents: Report
Zachary Evans
August 12, 2020, 5:35 PM CDT

The U.S. State Department could move as early as Thursday to announce that Chinese “Confucius institutes” will be required to register as foreign agents, Bloomberg reported.

Confucius institutes are Chinese government-funded centers on college campuses in the U.S. and throughout the world, whose stated aim is to promote knowledge of Chinese language and culture. However, U.S. agencies and elected officials have warned that the institutes serve as propaganda centers used by China to project soft power abroad.

The State Department’s reported decision would label the institutes as “substantially owned or effectively controlled” by a foreign entity. Earlier this year, the State Department applied the same designation to various Chinese state media outlets, including the People’s Daily, Xinhua News Agency, and China Global Television Network.

There are roughly 100 Confucius institutes currently operating in the U.S., some of which have closed in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. The national leadership of U.S. college Republicans and Democrats have called for all such institutes to be closed, citing the Chinese government’s human rights abuses.


The institutes are one aspect of what U.S. officials see as a Chinese campaign of influence at American universities. Republicans on the House Oversight Committee in May launched a probe of foreign funding at American universities, with ranking member Jim Jordan (R., Ohio) saying “We cannot allow a dangerous communist regime to buy access to our institutions of higher education, plain and simple.” A separate probe by the Department of Education has uncovered at least $6 billion in unreported donations to various universities from foreign governments.

More from National Review
China’s Confucius Institutes Attempt to Rebrand Following Backlash

U.S. Companies Push for Leniency in Trump’s Ban of Chinese App WeChat

Chinese Official Tries to Walk Back Claim U.S. Military Brought Virus to Wuhan


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dnivas, Google [Bot], navneeet, Varuna and 58 guests