Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 02 Sep 2020 20:18

Thailand’s shocker to China, no Kra Canal any more

idan · Post by **idan** » 02 Sep 2020 20:27

Taiwan

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ne ... ailsignout

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Sep 2020 20:37

^^^^^^^

@VinodTK

the hans still have a very viable option of rigging elections like they did in lanka and paying off the ruling junta to revive the kra canal project even against public disapproval.

they already fund insurgencies in many trouble spots around the world, as they undoubtedly also do in India.

India could think of funding the port and rail projects with equity participation as also the long term lease (99+ years) of the coco islands to get the hans out of there.

from their prime perch on the coco islands the hans are able to monitor all our missile tests and space launches apart from closely monitoring the entire A&N island chain for naval and aviation activity

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 02 Sep 2020 20:46

Chinese also have lot of presence and money in Vietnam.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 02 Sep 2020 20:56

chetak wrote:the hans still have a very viable option of rigging elections like they did in lanka and paying off the ruling junta to revive the kra canal project even against public disapproval.

Not really. It's not that it is infeasible. It reflects a misunderstanding of what Taiwan is. Taiwan is also majority Han Chinese. They are only in their second and third generation of native born people - almost everyone's grandfather is mainland born and that demographic continues to be the main voting base of the Kuomintang, who advocate closer ties to China. It's like half of Indian ruling class being TSP born with a soft corner for that place. We've already seen what happens then. It's the younger native generations who are driving the separation. The older gen who want closer connections to China have already tried various efforts to gain back power, even without PRC doing anything.

Yes this new passport looks quite different from the current one - I've seen that several times before. There's a huge difference between the current one and new one. Here's the current one:

Like I explained previously in detail, the younger generation in Taiwan does not consider itself 'Chinese Taipei' or 'Republic of China' at all. The passport is about as official a view of this social perspective as you can see now. Matter of time before they refuse to let IOC describe them as 'Chinese Taipei'. It's important to understand that for a long time, it's not just that China wanted it that way - Taiwan was also ok being seen that way. They no longer are.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Sep 2020 23:07

@Suraj

saar,

i was talking about myanmar and the isthmus of kra

the country already has a thriving and long settled chinese community which is being rapidly buttressed by incoming waves of new han migration who bring big money with them and invest locally which gives them a viable bargaining chip.

rigged elections sometime down the line is not impractical given the devious and determined han desire to extend the OBOR and the resultant tried and tested debt leveraged play.

even though the hans are quite unpopular in pukistan, they seem to be getting their way by suborning the right useful idiots. A similar scenario may easily play out in myanmar too.

just saying onlee

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 02 Sep 2020 23:21

Shared some thoughts on the latest chain of events on the LAC
Blog Link
Twitter Link

That said, the only fair assumption that I am going to endorse is that Indian troops have actually gone and occupied some heights with the aim of pre-empting Chinese movements. In fact, this seems to have been the line of the Chinese as well. So before moving ahead, let me delve on this particular aspect for some time.

At the outset let me say – This is HUGE!

And why do I say that?

Well, this is because it seems to be the first time that Indian soldiers have actually done something like this on the LAC (Doklam notwithstanding. That was a different ball-game altogether).

So much so, that the Chinese themselves didn’t know how to react to this event. Such was the confusion that Shri Hu went crying on Twitter that ‘THIS TIME’ it was the Indians that had changed the status quo, implicitly acknowledging that thus far it was China that was doing so!
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This brings me to yet another question – Have we really gone 4km inside Chinese territory?
Well, who knows!
Regardless, fact remains that the mere occupation of commanding heights implies that if not physically, we would still be able to visually dominate a large area beyond and if need be, interfere with PLA movements there. Remember Kargil, and the threat to NH-1 posed by the Pakis?

How far ahead can we do that, depends upon the geography of the are which again, I have absolutely no idea about. But then, the 4km figure does get some context.

Next question is whether we have actually crossed the LAC or not.

Out here, what I’ll offer is the fact that firstly, the LAC has NOT been officially demarcated by India and China. Instead, what exists is a perception of where the LAC lies. This naturally means that there are areas that both sides claim to be on their side of the LAC.

In fact, this was what the initial fracas over the various Fingers from 4 to 8 all about in the months of May and June.
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From various accounts, one thing that is crystal clear is that it was a tactical move, undertaken to pre-empt the Chinese.

That it caught the Chinese by surprise says a LOT about the mental faculties of the PLA commanders and their rigid decision making.
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Another V.E.R.Y interesting aspect that more or less is agreed to be true is the fact that Tibetan troops of the ‘hush hush establishment’ (which has its own wikipedia page, btw!) were involved as well!
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This fact is as symbolic in the perception realm as it is deadly on the battlefield. The Tibetans are universally acknowledged to be under tremendous suppression by China. The news of they actually fighting back to re-enter their lands, even if in a small increment, is bound to pique interest in a LOT of world capitals, not to say galvanize their fellow countrymen who are still under Chinese occupation within Tibet itself.

So herein lies yet another symbolic victory, going more than the 4km being talked about.

In fact, it goes all the way to Lhasa!
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But one thing is for sure – For the time being it is China that seems to be in uncharted territory. I say it not only due to the fact that there have been so many statements from so many Chinese stakeholders (refer a few tweets above), but also since it is now the PLA that have the unenvious task of reacting to an Indian move.

Do they go and physically dislodge the Indians from those heights now?

But isn’t the era of nail studded clubs and stones and fisticuffs over, thanks to the sacrifice of the boys of the Bihar Regiment & their CO?

And what about the tens of thousands of troops amassed by India in the region?

Bottomline: I wouldn’t be envious of the situation that the Chinese commander would be finding himself in at this moment. And no, it is not just about the events on the battlefield, but also the pressure he must be under from the very highest political echelons in Beijing!
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I have no doubts in my mind that the days of the world at large blindly believing the crap of ‘peaceful rise’ of China are well and truly over. All it takes is a mere glance at various statements and more importantly, ACTIONS around the world and you know that a LOT of paradigms related to China are changing.

Add to that the upcoming US elections and things don’t look too rosy for Xi ‘Winnie The Pooh’ Jinping in the days and weeks to come.
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The PLA, in any case not very keen to spend the winters in the middle of nowhere, may even end up forcing the hand of their political masters.

How might that manifest remains to be seen.

I’d assume that the weather will start getting colder and colder from October onwards. So that leaves the entire month of September open for any contingency that they might seek.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Sep 2020 23:40

Aditya Raj Kaul@AdityaRajKaul·Sep 1

Ground Report from #Ladakh with a tanned face on Day 1. No I am not going to show you Indian Army movements or Air power of Indian Air Force but what I can tell you is that India is more than prepared to thwart designs of an expansionist China which has faced global condemnation.

watch video

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2020 00:19

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 9956082688

Report: China warns Bangladesh for accepting medical help from Taiwan.
Says China is deeply distressed by Bangladesh's acceptance of Taiwanese help.

Chinese have gone bonkers!

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 03 Sep 2020 02:02

Chinese state port operator's India and Vietnam acquisitions stall
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Transp ... ions-stall

China Merchants -- perhaps best known for taking over the Sri Lankan port of Hambantota on a 99-year lease under the umbrella of Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative -- set up a joint venture in 2013 with French shipping company CMA CGM to share ownership, 49% to 51%, over a global portfolio of 15 terminals. Last December, the two reached a $955 million deal for their Terminal Link venture to take on an additional 10 port assets.

On Friday, China Merchants Vice President Lu Yongxin said the venture's acquisition of two of the 10 ports had been held up "because of the influence of the epidemic, as the examination and approval process of the local governments was delayed."

The acquisition of the other eight terminals, including 47.3% of Vietnam International Container Terminals in Ho Chi Minh City as well as assets in Singapore, Thailand, China, Iraq, Jamaica and Europe, closed on March 26. Under the agreement reached in December, remaining assets were to be transferred within three months, with the deadline extendable by another three months.

Speaking of the two remaining ports, Lu said at China Merchants' online results briefing: "We will work hard to complete the transaction before the year end."

One of the outstanding assets is a terminal at Mundra port in the western Indian state of Gujarat. The terminal is co-owned by India's Adani Group. It is also the overall operator of Mundra, which emerged as the country's busiest container port in the April-June quarter.

The other remaining asset is a 25% stake in Gemalink, a new terminal being developed at the Cai Mep-Thi Vai container port south of Ho Chi Minh City.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 03 Sep 2020 02:07

Fishermen asked to operate solely within Vietnamese waters after deal with China in Tonkin Gulf expires - TienPhong News
https://tienphongnews.com/fishermen-ask ... 81615.html
The document stated that the agreement, signed on December 25, 2000, took effect from June 30, 2004 to June 30, 2019, and was then extended for another year until June 30, 2020, as agreed by the two governments.

But now the agreement has expired, fishermen have been told they must take extra care when fishing to ensure they are not encroaching in Chinese waters.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 03 Sep 2020 05:46

State Department imposes restrictions on Chinese diplomats in the U.S.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/0 ... ats-407728

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 03 Sep 2020 08:32

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/ ... ent-646781
China reacts on PUBG, other Chinese apps ban in India
Following ban on PUBG Mobile, PUBG Mobile Lite, other 116 Chinese mobile apps by the Indian government amid China's provocative actions at the Line of Actual Control (LAC), a rattled Beijing via its state-run media Global Times has made a statement on the latest apps ban.
India TV News, New Delhi, September 02, 2020
After the ban on PUBG Mobile, PUBG Mobile Lite and other 116 Chinese mobile apps by the Indian government amid China's provocative actions at the Line of Actual Control (LAC), a rattled Beijing via its state-run media Global Times has made a statement on the latest apps ban. China's Global Times quoting experts in a tweet said that this has been done by India to deflect the attention.
"India's latest move to ban 118 Chinese apps on Wednesday, following renewed border tension, underscored the Modi government's "adventurism and opportunism” in an ill-intentioned move to deflect attention away from a potential collapse due to coronavirus and a crippled economy: Expert."
Earlier in the day, India banned 118 Chinese mobile apps, including popular game PUBG, citing data privacy concerns and a threat to national security. This takes the total count of Chinese-linked mobile apps banned by India to 224.
.....
Gautam

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 03 Sep 2020 11:13

Chinese ambassador's welcome in Kiribati sparks debate | Walks across backs of locals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLI-28FMUIo
Gautam

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 03 Sep 2020 18:19

Why Chinese Authorities Have Cracked Down On Indian Diamond Traders’ Offices In Hong Kong
https://swarajyamag.com/business/why-ch ... -hong-kong
Indian diamond traders in Surat and Mumbai are concerned over raids carried out by Chinese authorities in Hong Kong following the arrest of a Chinese couple.

The Indian Express quoting Gem and Jewellery Export Promotion Council (GJEPC) sources in Surat said a Gujarati diamond merchant had been detained for questioning by the Chinese authorities before being let off on Tuesday night (1 September).

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Sep 2020 08:07

Par for the course.The onslaught on PRC interests in India should steadily roll on like a juggernaut,crushing its economic jackals in our system every day. We need to prepare a masterplan for a total castration of the PRC in the Indian economy,replacing some of it by Taiwan,Japan,SoKo and ASEAN, but inthe process giving max. scope first to our own MSMEs and industry to take advantage of the expulsion of China.

m_saini · Post by **m_saini** » 04 Sep 2020 10:06

-already posted here-

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 04 Sep 2020 15:10

https://twitter.com/Cold_Peace_/status/ ... 2432233475

"'Palau's request to the US military remains simple--build joint-use facilities, then come and use them regularly,' [Palau President Tommy Remengesau] said in a letter to the US defense chief that his office released this week."

China's fear is clearly being felt ...

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 04 Sep 2020 18:12

chinese watching Indian films or just the way of transferring havala money to different media entities to cause trouble within India? Yeah sure chinese were generating unheard profits for questionable people like aamir

China cites 'Tagore', 'Dangal' on India banning Chinese apps including PUBG
https://www.wionews.com/world/china-cit ... ubg-325129
She said Indian poet and Nobel laureate Rabindranath Tagore, yoga, and Indian movies like 'Dangal' are very popular in China.

"However, it never crossed our mind that India is trying to infiltrate or pose any threat to our country," she said.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 05 Sep 2020 00:26

https://www.timesnownews.com/internatio ... c-pressure
Double blow for China after Thailand scraps Kra Canal project, delays submarine deal amid public pressure
Sidharth Shekhar, Sep 04, 2020
China suffered a double whammy after Thailand cancelled the Kra Canal project and delayed the purchase of two Yuan-class S26T submarines.
New Delhi: China’s Malacca dilemma continues to haunt it after Thailand announced it will scrap the Kra Canal project that Beijing wanted to build to bypass the Strait of Malacca. The Indian Navy had deployed its frontline vessels along the Malacca Straits, a strategic chokepoint, after the Galwan Valley clash in Ladakh.
This comes as a double blow to China amid a standoff with India.
The Thai government has also delayed the purchase of two Chinese submarines worth USD 724 million after facing intense pressure from its arch-rival Pheu Thai Party and the public.
......
Gautam

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Sep 2020 00:55

X-Posting from Mil Forum

*** LOSER COMPROMISE ALERT ***

So we occupy a few ridge lines and immediately the mighty PLA backs off its aggression, their FM starts making conciliatory noises, and their Defense Min "requests" an unscheduled meeting in Moscow and the whole country is smiling saying "we have taught the Chinese a lesson and they have now softened and ready to compromise on the border" and getting back to peace nicking in double time.

China/CCP has many ways of leading us down the garden path at the end of which we'll be holding lemons, if we lose sight of our long term goals and national interest:

LOSER COMPROMISE 1:
- China will first negotiate that both parties should go back to status quo ante before May 2020. They have made marginal territory gains which have little tactical or strategic significance and are now willing to give that up. In exchange, India must give up the significant tactical and strategic positions we have occupied over the past week. India was asking for status quo ante all these weeks after all, no ?

LOSER COMPROMISE 2:
- For years China has been pointedly ignoring Indian statements that the border needs to be settled. When they built G219 through Aksai-Hind occupied since 1962 there wasn't as much as a whimper from India. So who the frik cares, right ? But now there is OBOR and CPEC which is vulnerable to India's nationalist Govt's ambitions, India's Home Min is on record saying we'll take back Aksai-Hind one day. Converting J&K and Ladhak into UTs under direct Central Govt control is the first step as CCP sees it. So rake up tensions and agree for border talks now.

If India agrees, these talks will go on for years, heck for few 100m of incursions, Commander level talks have been stretched for 4 months. For a 4000Km long border, we can spend 4 generations. Meanwhile G219 will be 8 laned, Han citizen will have replaced the last Tibetan, OBOR, CPEC and string of pearls through India's backside will be a reality.

LOSER COMPROMISE 3:
- China will be OK to give and take bits of land here and there along the LAC, wherever parties agree on whatever perceptions they have. In every case where the Indian perception of LAC meets that of the Chinese, BUT IS BELOW THE LIMIT LINES OF THE J&K TERRITORY AS CEDED BY RAJA HARISHINGH I 1947, the Chinese will haggle for a while and finally agree. Thus LEGALISING THE ANNEXURE OF AKSAI-HIND IN 1962.

Added later:
In the same way, India will have to agree to no longer stake any claim to the terrority illegally occupied by Pak and ceded to China, and of course agree to compromise on Gilgit-Baltistan with Pak, essentially agreeing to convert LOC to IB. This is more than what bankrupt failed state of Pakistan can ever hope to achieve in the next 2 decades. Thus China will take care of its slave, and whatever belongs to the slave really belongs to the master, right?

LOSER COMPROMISE 4:
- China can very well take the position that what ever rules or principles are applied in "settling" the borders in Ladhak will not be applicable elsewhere. So do not dream of settling borders near Sikkim, Bhutan or Arunachal on the same lines. The Chinese will therefore reserve the right to salami slice elsewhere, and adopt other tactics like insurgency, separatism, intimidation (of Bhutan), coercion (Nepal, BD) etc which won't work in Ladhak.

LOSER COMPROMISE 5:
- Upon agreeing for talks, China will want India to roll back all economic measures taken up so far against it, reopen the doors for Huawei etc, and agree to negotiate a trade agreement if not reconsider ARCEP. India needs to show it's "good faith". So that the CCP can stem the trickle of global businesses flowing out of China ASAP, before they become rivers and torrents.

LOSER COMPROMISE 6:
Indian establishment still salivates for that doggone UNSC seat. China will promise a "balanced attitude towards reasonable consideration of India's aspirations" for this unobtanium we obsess about like some deep rooted sexual fantasy that vaporises all caution, and deflate the newly discovered "Indian SPINE" for a decade or so.

We are facing a 21st century Hindi-China bhai-bhai redux.

Modi & Co.s real deshbhakti and 70mm chests will be put to test when they face these tempting options which will seemingly allow the current Gov to claim a political, diplomatic and military victory over China but will ultimately result in a sell out of India's integrity and sovereignty.

We can't allow that to happen.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 05 Sep 2020 03:25

Everything above is purest examples of dhoti shivering.

Dhoti Shivering -1

If India agrees, these talks will go on for years, heck for few 100m of incursions, Commander level talks have been stretched for 4 months. For a 4000Km long border, we can spend 4 generations. Meanwhile G219 will be 8 laned, Han citizen will have replaced the last Tibetan, OBOR, CPEC and string of pearls through India's backside will be a reality.

I can't imagine we shiver like crap even after India is handing one win after one win. Using Chai biskoot sessions we duped then and occupied peaks. It is exactly reverse we did. Now we will shoot them from tops when they try to even repair their G219 road. For a change think positive and trust you army and leadership.

Dhoti Shivering -2

- Upon agreeing for talks, China will want India to roll back all economic measures taken up so far against it, reopen the doors for Huawei etc, and agree to negotiate a trade agreement if not reconsider ARCEP. India needs to show it's "good faith". So that the CCP can stem the trickle of global businesses flowing out of China ASAP, before they become rivers and torrents.

Even commenting this is waste. Dhoti is not on the body after shivering and some parts are gone due to shiver.

Dhoti Shivering -3

Indian establishment still salivates for that doggone UNSC seat. China will promise a "balanced attitude towards reasonable consideration of India's aspirations" for this unobtanium we obsess about like some deep rooted sexual fantasy that vaporises all caution, and deflate the newly discovered "Indian SPINE" for a decade or so.

does someone read even news. Who is even caring for UNSC seat.

The talks will keep happening and India will do what it is doing. Hope folks look all event in conjunction.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 05 Sep 2020 03:28

The troops are fully geared with material on both side in some sectors with just few yards distance. A small mistake will lead to mass causalities. That is why it is important to talk and see it does not happen. The talks are very narrow focused to just that.

But Chinese have to do something and wage a war to even get a face saver. But they don't have balls to do that.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Sep 2020 03:59

Muppalla ji,
I'm simply calling out the kind of traps that China will try to set, and that we should reject them and debunk those who seem to be willing to consider them. We see glimpses of such folks on BRF itself. The outside world still has quite a few shivering dhotis.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Sep 2020 04:09

Regarding UN and UNSC seat, you only have to listen to our EAM Jaishankar, who is far from being a pushover, to see how frequently he brings up UN, rules based intl order, the need to reform "certain key" UN bodies institutions etc etc... the Nehruvian mindset inheritance is still there to some extent.

Its those who are in their 50s and older that run our establishment. As a nation, we still have quite some need for white man's recognition, approval and confirmation bias. Shining at the UN & a UNSC seat epitomises that need.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Sep 2020 04:13

amar_p

You think MAD are born yesterday. Till now since 2014 they handled Depsang, Dokhlam, Wuhan, Mammallapuram, RCEP, Huawei, Galwan, and now South Pangong Tso.

MAD pulled off Siachen in Ladakh. Chinese bases in Rutok and Ngari are at risk and G219.

You think we will hand over everything?

I need not tell you about all the economy measures taken.
MAD bans 118 apps and Tencent valuations dropped $14B.

Need put things in perespective.

We want rules based architecture or else it's big fish eat little fish.

Nothing else.

Jaishankar will walk out of UN if it doesn't put FATF.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Sep 2020 04:50

Agree Ramana garu, replied in Mil thread.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 05 Sep 2020 05:04

amar_p wrote:Muppalla ji,
I'm simply calling out the kind of traps that China will try to set, and that we should reject them and debunk those who seem to be willing to consider them. We see glimpses of such folks on BRF itself. The outside world still has quite a few shivering dhotis.

the world have moved beyond all those. JS also knows how to use the framework without giving into framework. China has only one option at this point. Do a massive war and still lose. Let us see if it will take that choice. From an Indian perspective, it is gearing to keep its boys on the peaks like it does at Siachen.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 05 Sep 2020 09:57

amar_p wrote:Muppalla ji,
I'm simply calling out the kind of traps that China will try to set, and that we should reject them and debunk those who seem to be willing to consider them. We see glimpses of such folks on BRF itself. The outside world still has quite a few shivering dhotis.

How about doing us a favor instead of dhoti shivering by doing something more balanced - if you’re going to do such a laundry list, create one of all the possible ways PRC will screw up too. After all that’s the topic of the thread quite literally.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 05 Sep 2020 10:41

amar_p wrote:X-Posting from Mil Forum

*** LOSER COMPROMISE ALERT ***

amar_p saar, that's some high level of whataboutery, which appears to assume "what if we give up <fill in the blanks>". Quite one-sided, to put it simply. TBH, I am quite surprised to see this level of dhoti shivering from you. I understand our past actions may inform some of your concerns, but a) recent actions have upended a lot of the old ways of thinking, as the Chinese are finding to their peril, and b) the same establishment that you are concerned about has also looked out for our interests at various points. For ex, we didn't back down from Nathu La in '67, nor did we pull back from Sumdorung Chu in the eighties. We didn't stop our nuclear program after the Chinese detonated theirs in '64, in fact we did the opposite. Same story in '98, given the intense amreeki pressure. Point is, dhoti shivering based on Nehru's poor strategy and subsequent surrender, or Shastri's ceding of Haji Pir* is understandable, provided you also recognize that we learnt some lessons from it. Op Meghdoot and our counter deployment at DBO in 2013 come to mind in this regard. Point is, you need to consider these things as well - we haven't ceded strategic space even in the past (when we were a lot more constrained), and our usage of realpolitik has only become better since 2014.

amar_p wrote:Indian establishment still salivates for that doggone UNSC seat. China will promise a "balanced attitude towards reasonable consideration of India's aspirations" for this unobtanium we obsess about like some deep rooted sexual fantasy that vaporises all caution, and deflate the newly discovered "Indian SPINE" for a decade or so.

Just because we talk about getting a permanent seat does not mean we'll drop everything to achieve it. Remember the "proposal" for a non-veto permanent seat that was floated a few years ago? Did we accept it? Why not? Per your logic, we should have lapped it up, right? Point here is, we are talking about it to keep the issue warm, and it use it to our advantage at some point down the road. It's a long game. Our establishment knows that, they (P5) know, and they know that we know, and we know that they know that we know (our babus can do multiple Humphrey Appleby's when it comes to chai-biskoot

) that it won't happen in the near future. By talking about it, we keep signalling that we haven't forgotten, and reserve the right to do our own thing when we want, outside of the UN. If that sounds unusual for us, consider how we went ahead with the nuke program despite the NPT, CTBT, FMCT and a host of other abbreviations coined up by these agencies more or less targeted at us. MTCR? Sure - we came up with IGMDP. NSG? The hell with them, and today they are trading with us despite us not agreeing to sign the NPT. So, in all these instances, our actions made these "treaties" and groupings irrelevant. Same for the UNSC, if and when we decide to do so. Simple as that.

* Not many know this, but Shastri-ji did recognize the importance of Haji Pir and refused to give it up, and the talks almost broke down as a consequence. Since the Russians were looking for a successful outcome, they mounted a lot of pressure to get us to agree, and sadly, we don't know the details of that due to his subsequent death (or more accurately, assassination).

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 05 Sep 2020 10:43

Muppalla wrote:Dhoti Shivering -2
- Upon agreeing for talks, China will want India to roll back all economic measures taken up so far against it, reopen the doors for Huawei etc, and agree to negotiate a trade agreement if not reconsider ARCEP. India needs to show it's "good faith". So that the CCP can stem the trickle of global businesses flowing out of China ASAP, before they become rivers and torrents.
Even commenting this is waste. Dhoti is not on the body after shivering and some parts are gone due to shiver.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 05 Sep 2020 11:40

I am almost convinced that Chinese believed that India was preparing to take over Aksai Chin and GB. Their real reason for encroaching on the fingers is actually defensive and preemptive, up to the point that they believe is their LAC. They are expecting us to be aggressive and try&occupy territory. But here we are talking about peace and status quo etc, which means nothing to them given their view of our objectives. We should actually start grabbing territory now and gauge their defenses.

It is important for us to understand and realize that they came into this with a defensive mindset. Instead we have this picture of the scary 10 ft Chinaman, which doesn't compute. Because if he had an aggressive strategy, he would have tried to take territory by now. Instead, the entire CCP hierarchy is continuously blaming India for their own stupid military moves.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 05 Sep 2020 12:16

https://tfipost.com/2020/09/india-denie ... ace-talks/
India denies huts, tents and even Chairs to Chinese Soldiers who came for a Brigadier level “peace talks”
by Sanbeer Singh Ranhotra, 4 September 2020
......
Yesterday’s meeting, which was held at Chushul in Eastern Ladakh, as reported by ANI, saw an unusual hosting of the Chinese. The talks were held in an open area in Chushul rather than the usual meetings inside the Border Personnel Meeting huts built for the purpose there in both sides of the Line of Actual Control (LAC). The talks were being held after Indian troops thwarted the Chinese Army`s attempts to transgress into Indian territory, following which the Indian Army and SFF foiled any such transgressions much to the PLA and China’s embarrassment.
Denying China the usual comforts which they are so acclimatized to, and cannot do without, India has effectively signalled a change in the power equation and dynamics of dealing with them. India will no longer project itself as a defensive state alone, and will, instead, if nudged, not shy away from going on an all-out offence. Moreover, the decision to not meet the Chinese in designated huts signals as to how India is now not completely interested in talks, as the strategic heights are now dominated by it, much to China’s distress.
......
Gautam

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 05 Sep 2020 12:21

rajpa wrote:I am almost convinced that Chinese believed that India was preparing to take over Aksai Chin and GB. Their real reason for encroaching on the fingers is actually defensive and preemptive, up to the point that they believe is their LAC. They are expecting us to be aggressive and try&occupy territory. But here we are talking about peace and status quo etc, which means nothing to them given their view of our objectives. We should actually start grabbing territory now and gauge their defenses.
It is important for us to understand and realize that they came into this with a defensive mindset. Instead we have this picture of the scary 10 ft Chinaman, which doesn't compute. Because if he had an aggressive strategy, he would have tried to take territory by now. Instead, the entire CCP hierarchy is continuously blaming India for their own stupid military moves.

I agree Rajpaji, Chinese and the CCP are greatly misunderstood. India should gift them Ladakh, and Southern Tibet. We should open our markets for their products. While at it, we should ask the Dalai Lama to leave taking all his splittist followers with him. These actions will bring piece in the nation.
Gautam

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 05 Sep 2020 13:01

g.sarkar wrote:
rajpa wrote:I am almost convinced that Chinese believed that India was preparing to take over Aksai Chin and GB. Their real reason for encroaching on the fingers is actually defensive and preemptive, up to the point that they believe is their LAC. They are expecting us to be aggressive and try&occupy territory. But here we are talking about peace and status quo etc, which means nothing to them given their view of our objectives. We should actually start grabbing territory now and gauge their defenses.
It is important for us to understand and realize that they came into this with a defensive mindset. Instead we have this picture of the scary 10 ft Chinaman, which doesn't compute. Because if he had an aggressive strategy, he would have tried to take territory by now. Instead, the entire CCP hierarchy is continuously blaming India for their own stupid military moves.
I agree Rajpaji, Chinese and the CCP are greatly misunderstood. India should gift them Ladakh, and Southern Tibet. We should open our markets for their products. While at it, we should ask the Dalai Lama to leave taking all his splittist followers with him. These actions will bring piece in the nation.
Gautam

Gautamji, it seems to me that your statements are in contradiction to what I have expressed.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Sep 2020 21:55

Nehru made the same mistake in 1962 and believed the Chinese will never fire a shot and sent small bands of exposed troops to get slaughtered. We don't need to make that mistake, after Chinese giving Nukes with missiles to Pakis, this sort of statement is preposterous. We have never moved into Çhinese held territory even the illegitimate areas held by them in 58 years, there is no basis for a defensive mentality, if they had one they would have communicated thier LAC, they did not because they want to grab more and more land. Plus the back stabbing murder of Col. Santosh. Let's bury these pet theories.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 05 Sep 2020 23:09

Chinese spy Charlie Peng transferred 500 million dollars to a UK Bank, was running a Rs 1,000 crore hawala racket in India
https://www.opindia.com/2020/09/chinese ... cam-india/
The forensic reports of the mobile phone of Charlie Peng had revealed that the Chinese spy had transferred a staggering amount of $500 million to a person named Fai Yun Jon. A total of 5 documents have been recovered by CNN News 18 which claim that the Chinese agent had made the illicit transaction on November 9 last year.

Amongst these documents, the most important ones retrieved by the news channel is the bank guarantee letter and the copy of the bank draft. The Income Tax Department had also questioned the local branch of the International Bank in this regard.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 06 Sep 2020 04:28

darshan wrote:Chinese spy Charlie Peng transferred 500 million dollars to a UK Bank, was running a Rs 1,000 crore hawala racket in India
https://www.opindia.com/2020/09/chinese ... cam-india/

And we used to blame poor D company for running hawala in India. Bahti Ganga mein Chinio ne bhi haath dho liya. Sugarand people are experts in transferring money, from Chin to the safer countries of the West.
Gautam

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 06 Sep 2020 12:17

https://thediplomat.com/2020/09/germany ... ific-club/
Germany Joins the ‘Indo-Pacific’ Club

On Wednesday, Germany’s Federal Foreign Office announced a set of Indo-Pacific policy guidelines, becoming the second European nation after France to formally adopt a strategy for the Indo-Pacific region.

<snip>

Berlin’s Indo-Pacific guidelines foreground maritime security cooperation, human rights, and the diversification of Germany’s economic partnerships in the Indo-Pacific in order for it and regional partners to “to avoid unilateral dependencies.”

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 06 Sep 2020 13:44

https://thediplomat.com/2020/09/india-d ... what-next/
India Deploys Ethnic Tibetan Special Operators Against China: What Next?
Events early this week point to a particularly sharp turn in the India-China crisis in eastern Ladakh.
By Abhijnan Rej, September 04, 2020
As the India-China military crisis in eastern Ladakh enters its fourth month, there are scant signs that a peaceful solution is in the offing any time soon. On Monday morning, the Indian government issued a statement which noted that the army had pre-empted a Chinese push into the southern bank of the Pangong Lake, suggesting a new area of dispute had been created. (Up until the Indian statement, it was believed that the northern bank of the lake along with a few other points in eastern Ladakh where the only flashpoints.) Soon after this, the Chinese government in a barrage of statements accused India of attempting to change the status quo in eastern Ladakh at two points through a military push. Over the past few days, both governments have provided little clarity on what, in fact, is going on and have focused on generalities of the situation instead. Absent the opportunity for ground reporting, most journalists covering the developments have relied on anonymous government sources.
But sifting through media reports, two interrelated things have become clear, each of which has tremendous import for the future of the India-China crisis and the relationship in general. One, after months of prevarication, India’s military posture in eastern Ladakh is now extremely robust. Two, New Delhi is willing to deploy sharp tools to settle the dispute on its own terms, or at least force China to negotiate in good faith.
Beyond the lack of on-the-ground reports and a forbidding and unfamiliar terrain, what further makes the current crisis almost impossible to objectively track in terms of establishing chains of unfolding events is the fact that the 3,488-kilometer long India-China boundary remains largely undefined, neither marked on paper nor demarcated on land. In Ladakh, and the western sector of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in general, China and India have yet to exchange maps which would establish each other’s claims.
Instead, the LAC that separates India and China is a phantom object, unlike the India-Pakistan Line of Control (LOC) which is marked on mutually accepted maps though not an international border by any means. In so far as the LAC exists it is through tacit understanding based on past patterns of patrolling by the Indian and Chinese armies. So, news reports that suggest India had crossed the LAC around the weekend – or that China had done so – to capture key peaks in the southern bank of the Pangong Lake should be taken with an appropriate degree of caution.
However, going by the relentless and strident Chinese statements – not to mention belligerent op-eds in the state-run Global Times – India did, over the past weekend and early this week, take military steps that have upset China. It does seem likely that India has managed to occupy one or more peaks on the southern bank of Pangong Lake. Capturing heights from China’s control not only gives the Indian Army ability to surveil territory occupied by the Chinese in the vicinity (useful in the event India does decide to evict the People’s Liberation Army by force) but also — as many have pointed out — serve as a bargaining chip to restore status quo ante through exchange of territory in each other’s control exceeding customary claims. Either way, Indian actions early this week mark a turning point in the ongoing crisis.
Most strikingly credible news reports that India used the highly-secretive Special Frontier Force (SFF) to launch measures it did has been the highlight of the week. The paramilitary SFF reports to the chief of the Research & Analysis Wing, India’s external spy service, and at least one (“Vikas”) battalion of the SFF is manned by ethnic Tibetans in India.
.....
Gautam