Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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bala
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by bala »

// looks like China is roughshodding the neighbors of India with promises of help and money.

Batch of Chinese aircraft sold to Nepal rust at Kathmandu airport
https://infra.economictimes.indiatimes. ... t/93532736
After Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, Nepal is facing a hard time with the quality of Chinese infra products even as the visiting Nepali Foreign Minister was assured $ 15 billion grant assistance by China.
Sri Lanka allows controversial Chinese ship to visit port
https://infra.economictimes.indiatimes. ... t/93543605
Amidst controversy and a diplomatic tussle between India and China, Sri Lanka on Saturday announced that it has allowed controversial Chinese vessel. Chinese vessel 'Yuan Wang 5' to dock at the island's southern-most port, the Chinese-run Hambantota. Described as a research and survey vessel, but alleged to be a spy ship, the Chinese vessel was originally planned to reach Hambantota on August 11 but its arrival was deferred following Sri Lanka's requested to postpone the arrival indefinitely. When Sri Lanka requested a postponement of the arrival, China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin protested.
// kinda pathetic to see china winning over despite India helping Sri Lanka. Our babus and politicos have to play the game in a ruthless manner otherwise India will be taken advantage.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by rsingh »

What stops us from blocking the port. Cuban crisis all over again.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by kit »

bala wrote:// looks like China is roughshodding the neighbors of India with promises of help and money.

Batch of Chinese aircraft sold to Nepal rust at Kathmandu airport
https://infra.economictimes.indiatimes. ... t/93532736
After Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, Nepal is facing a hard time with the quality of Chinese infra products even as the visiting Nepali Foreign Minister was assured $ 15 billion grant assistance by China.
Sri Lanka allows controversial Chinese ship to visit port
https://infra.economictimes.indiatimes. ... t/93543605
Amidst controversy and a diplomatic tussle between India and China, Sri Lanka on Saturday announced that it has allowed controversial Chinese vessel. Chinese vessel 'Yuan Wang 5' to dock at the island's southern-most port, the Chinese-run Hambantota. Described as a research and survey vessel, but alleged to be a spy ship, the Chinese vessel was originally planned to reach Hambantota on August 11 but its arrival was deferred following Sri Lanka's requested to postpone the arrival indefinitely. When Sri Lanka requested a postponement of the arrival, China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin protested.
// kinda pathetic to see china winning over despite India helping Sri Lanka. Our babus and politicos have to play the game in a ruthless manner otherwise India will be taken advantage.

As i thought., the chinese have the SL ball$ in hand to be squeezed whenever required., they calmly stayed back during the crisis situation knowing well India would help., once done , all it took was a "secret meeting" with the lankan PM for the ship to berth. So much for the billions India spend on that country, could not stop even a spy ship visit. So the lankans made the public posturing of stopping/refusing permission to dock while secretly acceding to it !!., so much for double gaming.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by kit »

bala wrote:// looks like China is roughshodding the neighbors of India with promises of help and money.


// kinda pathetic to see china winning over despite India helping Sri Lanka. Our babus and politicos have to play the game in a ruthless manner otherwise India will be taken advantage.
all those exchanges mean money for the politicians involved not for their country !!.. it will go on , even if the projects and products are junk
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Pratyush »

How much of this is a result of politicians being purchased by PRC. How much of this is a result of political and policy consensus in the host nation to use PRC to show a middle finger to India.

Whatever PRC extracts out of host nation's for this is acceptable.

For example, my BIL is based in Sri Lanka. Given his complexion they easily identify him as an Indian.

They always tell him that Sri Lanka is a mess because of Indian meddling.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by kit »

Pratyush wrote: How much of this is a result of politic ... sed by PRC. How much of this is a result of political and policy consensus in the host nation to use PRC to show a middle finger to India.

They always tell him that Sri Lanka is a mess because of Indian meddling.
100 percent. Which country other than China actually benefitted ?

Indian meddling is the line peddled by their local political nexus. Same happens in certain Indian states,
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by sanjayc »

Pratyush wrote:How much of this is a result of politicians being purchased by PRC. How much of this is a result of political and policy consensus in the host nation to use PRC to show a middle finger to India.

Whatever PRC extracts out of host nation's for this is acceptable.

For example, my BIL is based in Sri Lanka. Given his complexion they easily identify him as an Indian.

They always tell him that Sri Lanka is a mess because of Indian meddling.
Same situation in Nepal. I was there 15 days ago. Talk to taxi drivers, common people -- all blame India for something or the other. Being too lenient and always be ready to help generates contempt in beneficiaries.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by kit »

I think India needs to revamp its neighbourhood first policy, enforcement of its borders , strict regulations for the all and sundry to enter India and no freebies. Sometimes going bust is the only way to learn.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Dilbu »

After Docking Ship In Lanka, China Wants To Send Troops To Pak: Report
Islamabad: Having made significant investments in the conflict-prone Pakistan-Afghanistan region as part of its hugely ambitious Belt and Road Initiative, China is planning to protect its interests in the two countries by stationing its own forces in specially created outposts, according to top diplomatic sources. China has been keen to expand its influence to central Asia through the Pakistan-Afghanistan route and has made strategic investments in the two countries.
Top diplomatic and security sources in Islamabad who requested anonymity for this report, believe that China's People Liberation Army is working at a war scale to establish military outposts in Afghanistan and Pakistan for what it claims would be smoother operations and expansion of its Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

According to a diplomatic source, the Chinese Ambassador Nong Rong has held meetings with Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif, Foreign Minister Bilawal Bhutto and Chief of Army General Qamar Javed Bajwa in this regard.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by S_Madhukar »

Well looks like Lanka has decided to once again host Ravana raj. It’s their choice but we must mark our Lakshman Rekha. Chinese can easily flood these countries with money for commies and their agenda. We pay for aid and relief they will pay up all the politicians because people there are dumber than in India(can’t blame them considering the mess we were in). Best is we withdraw to our gates and action PM’s plan for the next 25 years. We have too much of Nice Guy Syndrome both inside and outside that leads to incoherence and emotional swings.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by kit »

S_Madhukar wrote:Well looks like Lanka has decided to once again host Ravana raj. It’s their choice but we must mark our Lakshman Rekha. Chinese can easily flood these countries with money for commies and their agenda. We pay for aid and relief they will pay up all the politicians because people there are dumber than in India(can’t blame them considering the mess we were in). Best is we withdraw to our gates and action PM’s plan for the next 25 years. We have too much of Nice Guy Syndrome both inside and outside that leads to incoherence and emotional swings.
one needs to take a leaf out of the american playbook and ensure its security in the surrounding regions, let SL be independent but we need a base there to "look out for chinese" ., i hope the airport now under Indian control would be some use !!

The neighbourhood countries MUST observe our security concerns and host appropriate facilities to help them help us. There are no two ways about this. btw two can play tango with the Chinese if bribing/trapping is what they are playing at

btw where did SL find the fuel and stores to replenish the Chinese vessel ., God forbid that was not donated by India :roll:
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Dilbu »

German fighter jets in Indo-Pacific for first time amid tension with China
As Germany looks to strengthen it's presence in Indo-Pacific region, thirteen German military aircraft en route to Australia under the mission dubbed Rapid Pacific 2022.
The six Eurofighters and seven military transport aircraft were due to land in Singapore on Tuesday before travelling on to Australia under the mission dubbed Rapid Pacific 2022.

The fleet will take part in training exercises in Australia and Singapore before stopping off in Japan and South Korea on the way back to Germany, the Luftwaffe German air force said.

The Luftwaffe's first deployment to the region and comes at a time of heightened tensions between Beijing and the West after China launched military drills around Taiwan following a visit earlier this month by US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to the self-governed island.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Cyrano »

Needling India on LAC or using India's neighbours is an easy way for China to get back at the QUAD and therefore the USA. Change the zone of focus away from Indo-China sea. Also complicates matters for India forcing it to collaborate more with the US on an agenda imposed by China.

EAM Dr SJ's current visit to Thailand must be seen in this context. We are trying to bring focus back to Indo-China zone.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by nits »

Found this on twitter, if this is authentic I love the way forces handled Chinese Spy Ship...

Image

Twitter thread https://twitter.com/arunpudur/status/15 ... JEgYQ&s=19

Some more info - https://www.theigmp.org/2022/08/indias- ... a.html?m=1
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Pratyush »

That is a fantacy from a drug addled mind.


If this is here to spy on Indian military comms traffic. Then she has to listen and not emit.

Collect as much information as possible and then analyse it later.

If she is going to be used for satalite tracking and collection of telimetery data. Then she is not going to be effected by ground based signals.

None of the above requires a port visit.

The port visit is to tell India that Lanka is a PRC bitch. Which is more damaging to PRC them to India. Because the forces which were instrumental in removal of previous president. Can also compel the current and future regime to tell PRC to FO.

they are just going to be waiting for an opportune moment for action. That PRC has been stupid enough to wave a red flag in front of them.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Dilbu »

S Jaishankar on India-China border row: 'Problem has not been resolved'
Foreign minister S Jaishankar on Sunday said ties between India and China are going through a “very difficult phase” as he spoke about the Galwan Valley stand-off and Beijing's “disregard” for the border pacts. Jaishankar said the problem has not been resolved and that has been clearly casting a shadow.

He made the remarks while attending an event organised by the Indian community in Brazil's Sao Paulo during his first leg of a three-nation visit. He will also be visiting Paraguay and Argentina.

“We have agreements with China going back to the 1990s which prohibits bringing mass troops in the border area. They have disregarded that. You know what happened in the Galwan Valley. That problem has not been resolved and that has been clearly casting a shadow,” news agency ANI quoted the minister as saying.

Jaishankar also said a relationship cannot be a one-way street and mutual respect has to be there in order to sustain it. "They are our neighbours. Everybody wants to get along with their neighbour. In personal life and country-wise as well. But everybody wants to get along with on reasonable terms. I must respect you. You must respect me."
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Cyrano »

Dr SJ has been staing this position for a while now. I'm sure Cheeni side has noted and ignored it. Going fwd we should stop repeating this which will increasingly amount to "whining" and simply say "any Chinese moves will end up as costly misadventures like the last one, and India is determined to defend every inch of its territory and take back what is her's. If China wants better relations with India they should start by ceding occupied territory of Gosthana which they call Aksai Chin."
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by srin »

Pratyush wrote:That is a fantacy from a drug addled mind.


If this is here to spy on Indian military comms traffic. Then she has to listen and not emit.

Collect as much information as possible and then analyse it later.

If she is going to be used for satalite tracking and collection of telimetery data. Then she is not going to be effected by ground based signals.

None of the above requires a port visit.

The port visit is to tell India that Lanka is a PRC bitch. Which is more damaging to PRC them to India. Because the forces which were instrumental in removal of previous president. Can also compel the current and future regime to tell PRC to FO.

they are just going to be waiting for an opportune moment for action. That PRC has been stupid enough to wave a red flag in front of them.
Exactly. It can do its job in high seas where there is freedom of navigation. This is a message to India
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by bala »

Chinese satellite tracking ship leaves Sri Lanka after controversial visit
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 799_1.html
A high-tech Chinese research ship docked at the strategically important Hambantota port departed from Sri Lankan waters on Monday after a controversial six-day visit. The ballistic missile and satellite tracking ship 'Yuan Wang 5' ship was originally scheduled to arrive at the Chinese-run port on August 11 but it was delayed in absence of permission by Sri Lankan authorities following security concerns raised by India. On August 13, Colombo granted the port access to the vessel from August 16 to 22 on condition that it will keep the Automatic Identification System (AIS) switched on within the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) of Sri Lanka and no scientific research to be conducted in Sri Lankan waters.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by kit »

srin wrote:
Pratyush wrote:That is a fantacy from a drug addled mind.


The port visit is to tell India that Lanka is a PRC bitch. Which is more damaging to PRC them to India. Because the forces which were instrumental in removal of previous president. Can also compel the current and future regime to tell PRC to FO.

they are just going to be waiting for an opportune moment for action. That PRC has been stupid enough to wave a red flag in front of them.
Exactly. It can do its job in high seas where there is freedom of navigation. This is a message to India
Indeed, after all the good will gestures to SL , what exactly did the Chinese do at this time ..nada..not even a dollar. They just waited for India to clean up the mess and the spy ship visit is like showing the middle finger , show "who s boss in SL" .
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by SSridhar »

Yuan Wang-5 (YW5) came to establish two things:
  1. That Hambantota belonged to it and SL cannot stop its PLAN or SSF ships from berthing there notwithstanding pressure from any other nation (in this case, two biggies, India and the US)
  2. Between India and PRC, who really has more clout over SL
There are many issues in the whole YW5 story worth noting.
  • Original berthing was announced for August 11 for 6 days, until August 17. When SL deferred this plan, it said that YW5 would berth for only 3 days. However, it eventually berthed for the entire 6 days.
  • Unlike what the reports want us to believe, there was quite a party at Hambantota to receive YW5. SL President's representative, the Chinese Ambassador to SL and the Chinese CEO of Hambantota Port welcomed the ship along with a traditional Sinhalese dance. Speeches were made praising SL-China friendship. We now know that the ex-Naval Chief of SL spearheaded YW5's berthing. IOW, everything happened as originally planned except the berthing date was deferred from August 11 to 16.
  • YW5's captain said, "We believe the ship's call at Hambantota International Port will deepen the exchange between China and Sri Lanka in the field of space science and technology and promote the common progress of the space industry of the two countries". The question is what space industry does China want to have with SL? I can only think of a permanent Chinese tracking station, probably built within the Hambantota Industrial Zone which China is building and has full control of. YW5's visit is to lay the foundation for that. We know how stealthily China setup a tracking station in the Patagonia of Argentina. We also know that it is a Chinese company which manages the SL GEO Comms Satellite
  • China is also acquiring geo-synchronous communication slots, a scarce commodity, from India’s neighbouring countries such as Sri Lanka, Maldives, Nepal and Bangladesh by offering to build and launch communication satellites on their behalf.
  • Originally, it was announced that YW5 would spend two months in north west IOR. Now, SL says its next port is Jiang Yin. Don't know whether it is after those two months of sojourn. If it is simply going back to Jiang Yin, why did it come all the way? If not, would it come for another replenishment of food & fuel after two months in which case its next port of call could not be Jiang Yin? If it would not need replenishment, then why did it dock at Hambantota for six days without directly proceeding to its area of 'research' and then going back?
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Pratyush »

SSridhar wrote:Yuan Wang-5 (YW5) came to establish two things:
  1. That Hambantota belonged to it and SL cannot stop its PLAN or SSF ships from berthing there notwithstanding pressure from any other nation (in this case, two biggies, India and the US)
  2. Between India and PRC, who really has more clout over SL

Do you think that the kind of action which removed previous president can be brought to bear against PRC occupation of Hambantota, as a form of independence struggle?
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by SSridhar »

No, I don't think so
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Dilbu »

What will happen if the Yuan Wang has an accident, for example hits an unidentified naval mine on its way back.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by hnair »

Dilbu, there is no war. So accidents etc would cause serious escalations. The ship visit is as SSridhar mentioned, was all about messaging. There might be some additional science work for tracking anomalies in their recent space launches.

What is telling is what SSridhar pointed out - Chinese publicly executed a veto over Sri Lankan govt. I don’t think India can do much about this from a military angle and Sri Lankan elites are back to playing their sleazy games, with zero lessons learned from the recent events. For too long, Sri Lanka was allowed to slide and unlike Maldives, would take a lot more time and money to rectify.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by KL Dubey »

Why factories in China are shutting down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAln0kO5J9s

Two Asian powers rise to keep China in check: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRpJSBxVATQ

The CCP and PLA seem to be in a poor position to actually fight wars or mount invasions.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Pratyush »

https://www.firstpost.com/india/chinese ... 17151.html
Chinese spy ship left Sri Lanka but it portrayed an India plagued by chronic insecurities, anxieties and self-doubt
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by hnair »

Downright silly article by Tanmoy Talukdar

For example:
- US screams loudly about Chinese presence at Djibouti and Solomon Islands
- US does FONOPS over even small country’s EEZ waters.
- china screams very loudly and futilely about Pelosi’s visit
- China uses lllegal trawlers to poach, as if they need that wealth

So all these are marks of a “developing nation mentality” as per this writer? Sri Lanka elites must be made to see reason on the matter of their country going down the drain, because it directly affects India too
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by SSridhar »

That was a nonsense article as hnair says. Holes stitched together as an article.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Cyrano »

Same wrtier would have criticised India not standing up to the dragon if no noise was made.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by sanjayc »

SSridhar wrote:That was a nonsense article as hnair says. Holes stitched together as an article.
Most likely the article is sponsored by Chinese embassy. These people are experts at coming to an "arrangement" with Indian journalists. I know. Being in the PR industry, I got a couple of calls too directly from Hong Kong for "collaboration"
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Haresh »

US ship unable to get Solomon Islands’ permission to dock, says Washington

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... washington
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by Pratyush »

The Australians were making noises about Solomon Islands falling into PRC orbit would be an existential threat for them.

It seems that Solomon Islands are rapidly approaching orbital velocity for the PRC.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by kit »

Pratyush wrote:The Australians were making noises about Solomon Islands falling into PRC orbit would be an existential threat for them.

It seems that Solomon Islands are rapidly approaching orbital velocity for the PRC.
Nothing so dramatic., the leadership is bought (literally) by the PRC for a grand total of less than 10 million usd !!. The PRC template never changes., anyway quite well tested and successful.

There does seem to be a few "secret" agreements., one is likely for a naval base of sorts.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by SSridhar »

‘Etiquette’ breach: India slams Chinese envoy in Lanka for remarks on ‘spy ship’
Taking umbrage to Chinese ambassador Qi Zhenhong’s remarks targeting India over the recent controversy over the docking of a Chinese vessel at the Hambantota port, the Indian high commission in Colombo slammed the Chinese diplomat for his violation of “basic diplomatic etiquette” saying Qi’s view of Sri Lanka’s northern neighbour may be “coloured by how his own country behaves”.

“India, we assure him, is very different,” said the Indian mission in a response on Twitter to Qi’s outburst against India in a signed article in a daily on Friday.


The high commission also hit out at China saying “opaqueness and debt-driven agendas” are now a major challenge, especially for smaller nations, and that recent developments are a caution.

“We have noted the remarks of the Chinese Ambassador. His violation of basic diplomatic etiquette may be a personal trait or reflecting a larger national attitude. His imputing a geopolitical context to the visit of a purported scientific research vessel is a giveaway,” said the high commission.
The Indian mission also reminded China that Sri Lanka needs support and not unwanted pressure or unnecessary controversies to serve another country’s agenda.


India’s scathing response followed Qi’s article in which he had said, while talking about the docking of Yuan Wang 5 research vessel, that external obstruction based on “so-called security concerns but without any evidence from certain forces is de facto a thorough interference in Sri Lanka’s sovereignty and independence”.

While Qi again didn’t name India, he said “any infringement on the national sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of Sri Lanka shall not be tolerated”.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by SSridhar »

Last year, after his short-tempered Wolf Warrior diplomats in various countries went berserk over mounting criticism of China, Xi put on his benign, smiling Confucian-face and told them, “We must focus on setting the tone right, be open and confident but also modest and humble, and strive to create a credible, lovable and respectable image of China”. This is the usual Janus-faced China.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Post by rajpa »

Porklubbers aka Wolf Warriors come across as uncouth, street thugs pretending to be diplomats. She Pimping is the mob boss. Sad state of a country ruled by money loving communists with a poor culture, bratty upbringing and lowly mannerisms.
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