Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby NRao » 03 Jan 2018 07:06

Colombo is a key hub for Indian import-export cargo. {That's the problem. We have been unable to attract mother ships to our ports for various reasons including infrastructure deficiencies}


I will need to dig into teh archives, but, Chinese operatives worked very hard - in India - to attract Indian players. In fact, if I am not mistaken, that port will be viable *only* because of Indian goods.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Hari Seldon » 03 Jan 2018 09:30

Beijing is pursuing a complex strategy to corner natural resources (Brahma Chellaney)

By building cascades of large dams on international rivers just before they leave its territory, China is re-engineering cross-border natural flows. Among the rivers it has targeted are the Mekong, the lifeline of South East Asia, and the Brahmaputra, the lifeblood for Bangladesh and north-eastern India.

With the world’s most resource-hungry economy, China has gone into overdrive to corner natural resources. On the most essential resource, freshwater, it is seeking to become the upstream controller by manipulating trans-boundary flows through dams and other structures.

China now controls vast transnational water resources. By forcibly absorbing Asia’s “water tower”, the Tibetan plateau, in 1951, it gained a throttlehold over the headwaters of Asia’s major river systems. Its actions in more recent years have sought to build water leverage over its downstream neighbours.

Such an approach has fostered increasing water-related tensions with India, most of whose northern rivers originate in Tibet. In 2017, in violation of two legally binding bilateral accords, China refused to supply hydrological data to India.


As someone said online:
The most disturbing part of this report might be that China already feels it can act with such impunity — which is exactly how rising world powers stumble into regrettable (and major) wars.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 03 Jan 2018 10:22

New.Ind.Exp.
China again intruded into Ar.Pradesh near Bishing ,eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation,, bulldozers seized.
As predicted, the loss of face that XI Gins suffered at Doklam is being played out here as part of his planned revenge against India/PM Modi.2018 is likely to see a full- scale clash involving both China and Pak.Pak's sudden increase in terror attacks in J& K is being synchronised with Chinese military intrusions into India. This time however there is no third party involved like Bhutan.China is going to keep on intruding ad nauseam all along the border, in an attempt to push our troops back and seize ground inevitably.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Jan 2018 11:51

There is no road near Bishing, did the Bulldozers floatr on the Bramhaputra a.k.a siang a.ka Yarlung Zangbo or did they try to cut down forests to try and build a new road in the area?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 03 Jan 2018 12:32

Ck the map in the link.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 42996.html
After Doklam, India-China faceoff in Arunachal Pradesh
By Prasanta Mazumdar & Sujan Dutta | Express News Service | Published: 03rd January 2018 07:53 AM |

Last Updated: 03rd January 2018 12:00 PM |

The military faceoffs have increased in recent years with India pacing up development of border infrastructure. (ENS)
GUWAHATI/NEW DELHI: Troops of Indian and Chinese security forces are locked in an eyeball-to-eyeball standoff near Bishing in Arunachal Pradesh’s Upper Siang district for close to a week now, sources in the security establishment have confirmed to The New Indian Express.

The standoff began after Indian troops involving the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) and the Indian Army were informed by local villagers that a Chinese road-building team had entered India with bulldozers.

“My friend was driving to a place which lies beyond Tuting. He was stopped by the Army, who said he cannot go further because a standoff between Indian and Chinese soldiers is on. The locals there too had confirmed this to my friend,” an Arunachal-based lawyer-activist said.

Engaged with China on issue of Kailash Mansarovar Yatra via Nathu La: Government
India-China hold border talks; discuss confidence building measures after Doklam standoff
Doklam defused, India and China return to talks table

At least three sources have independently confirmed to TNIE that two dozers have been confiscated. A source in the security establishment said the standoff began before the new year and “is continuing as we speak”.

Another source said, “We do not want to escalate matters and make a Doklam out of it. So the government has asked us not to go public.”
*(I was told the same thing a few days ago by a reliable source,but no details of where was given)

He was referring to the 72-day standoff between Indian and Chinese troops at Doklam in Bhutan last year that had escalated tension between the neighbours.

The armies disengaged after China promised to make “necessary adjustments” to their troop deployment, and Indian troops withdrew to their posts in Sikkim.

In a narrative pieced together from sources in Arunachal Pradesh, it is understood that last week, probably around December 28, the Chinese road-building team was spotted by villagers. The team included civilians as well as uniformed personnel.

The villagers informed a local policeman, who in turn alerted the ITBP deployed in Medog, near Bishing. The area is north of the Yarlung Tsangpo river, called Siang in India, after it enters Arunachal in an “S” bend.

The ITBP reached the spot and asked the Chinese to return. There was an exchange of words but the Chinese refused to yield. The Indian Army also sent a patrol to the faceoff site, where it continues to stay.

Though the site is part of the ITBP’s area of responsibility, the Army is heavily deployed in the region. In December 2016, the Army and the Air Force re-activated an Advanced Landing Ground at Tuting where military cargo planes can fly from a short runway. The faceoff site is near the Gelling subdivision.

There are two accounts on the standoff. According to one, the civilians in the road-building team retreated to Chinese territory and the faceoff dissipated. Another account says the standoff is still on and it occasionally involves bargaining over the custody of the dozers. There are more Chinese soldiers now since the road-building party was intercepted.

The district authorities as well as the Arunachal Chief Minister’s office expressed ignorance on the incident. Local MP, Ninong Ering, too, did not have knowledge of the faceoff. “The Army is not letting people go beyond Gelling village, which is the next administrative circle after Tuting town towards the international border,” said the lawyer-activist.

A comparison with Doklam is easy but it is incorrect. This is because Doklam involved a third country, Bhutan. In this case, the standoff is firmly within Indian territory, about 4 km from the McMahon Line.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 03 Jan 2018 13:12

CHINA'S INDIA WAR [BY BERTIL LINTNER]


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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 03 Jan 2018 14:10

Indo-Pacific quad may soon have a gaping hole as China re-engages Japan - Atul Aneja, The Hindu
The much-talked-about quad group of India, Japan, Australia and the United States in the Indo-Pacific may soon have a gaping hole as Tokyo and Beijing appear set to revamp ties in 2018.

A Japan-China-South Korea leaders’ summit is planned in Japan early in the New Year, followed by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe making an official visit to China
, the Nikkei Asian Review is reporting.

Those two events will open the door for Mr. Xi arrival in Japan on his first official visit. Considerable groundwork has already been done to re-set ties between the two Asian heavyweights.

Toshihiro Nikai, number two in Japan’s ruling Liberal Democratic Party (LDP), is spearheading a diplomatic push to achieve a breakthrough. Last week, he met Chinese President Xi Jinping and invited him to visit Tokyo, the Kyodo news agency reported.

‘Mutually beneficial relationship’

In a rare address to the elite Communist Party of China (CPC) Party School, Mr. Nikai underscored that that the two countries must forge a future-oriented cooperative relationship.

He said that a bilateral “mutually beneficial relationship,” should transition to shape peace and prosperity in Asia and beyond.

Significantly, the senior Japanese politician, who led a ruling party delegation, backed joint forays by Beijing and Tokyo on Asia infrastructure projects, in tune with Mr. Xi’s flagship Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

Kyodo is also reporting that apart from North Korea, the BRI was a major topic of discussion between Mr. Nikai and China’s state councilor Yang Jiechi, ahead of the call on Mr. Xi.

“It is true that there were cold days in Japan-China relations but we overcame them,” Mr.Nikai told reporters after the meeting with Mr. Xi. “Today, we can feel spring-like warmth.”

The Chinese side is also demonstrating much enthusiasm for a Beijing-Tokyo reengagement in 2018. People’s Daily, the flagship newspaper of China's Communist Party, front-paged a photograph of Mr. Nikai’s call on Mr. Xi.

The state-run China Daily paraphrased remarks by Song Tao, head of the International Department of the CPC Central Committee, that Mr. Nikai’s call on the Chinese President shows the great importance that Mr. Xi has attached to China-Japan ties.

But China has to overcome resistance

Mr. Xi’s decision not to speak at the December 13 ceremony of the Nanjing massacre, is also being read in sections of the Japanese media as a signal of China’s intent to build bridges with Mr. Abe’s government.

The Nikkei article, however, points out that Mr. Xi may have to curb resistance from hardline sections of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to rebuild ties with Japan.

It highlighted that anti-Japanese sentiment had been strong in the former Xuzhou military corps, which was part of the previous Nanjing Military Region. But under Mr. Xi’s military reforms, the Xuzhou military corps has been renamed as 71st Group Army, and has been packed by loyalists.

Just before and after the Nanjing massacre ceremony, Mr. Xi visited the 71st military group. The write-up underscored that “Mr. Xi's visit to the 71st Group Army was aimed at projecting a new message: That the former Nanjing Military Region is now in Xi's grip.”

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 03 Jan 2018 16:59

SSridhar wrote:Colombo is a key hub for Indian import-export cargo. That's the problem. We have been unable to attract mother ships to our ports for various reasons including infrastructure deficiencies
NRao wrote:I will need to dig into teh archives, but, Chinese operatives worked very hard - in India - to attract Indian players. In fact, if I am not mistaken, that port will be viable *only* because of Indian goods.
SSridhar Ji & NRao Ji

1. Mundra now has Four Container Terminals - Three with Adanis and one with DPW and two in JV.

2. The Adani Terminals are able to service Container Carriers of 18 Meters Depths. I believe Two of the Mundra Container Terminals are in a joint venture - one with MSC and the second with CMA CGM.

3. Chinese Controlled Container Vessels bring most of the India Bound Containers on Container Vessels which end up in the UK or Europe.

4 However these Container Cargoes are also carried by Vessels ending up in the Persian Gulf.

5. As such CVs of up to 18 Metres Depths bound for the PG do discharge North & Central India Bound Containers in Mundra.

6. It might be possible that Non-Chinese Controlled CVs of 18 Metres Depth - the MÆRSK 18,000 TEU Carriers have a Depth of 14.5 Metres. Once this Size - Dimension CVs are able to find sufficient Cargoes to the Persian Gulf then you will find them calling at Mundra or the UK-Europe Bound Non-Chinese Controlled will call at Vizhinjam to off-load Containers Bound for Indian Ports.

Thus all is STILL NOT LOST for Large Container Vessels to visit Indian Ports Directly and by-passing Colombo.

Disclaimer : The above information is what I have gleaned on the Internet!

Cheers Image

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby A_Gupta » 03 Jan 2018 17:23

Long, but must read: Making China Great Again
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... reat-again

India will have to work very hard to avoid being in a world controlled by China.

Yan Xuetong is the dean of Tsinghua University’s Institute of Modern International Relations. At sixty-five, Yan is bouncy and trim, with short silver hair and a roaring laugh. When I arrived at his office one evening, he donned a black wool cap and coat, and we set off into the cold. Before I could ask a question, he said, “I think Trump is America’s Gorbachev.” In China, Mikhail Gorbachev is known as the leader who led an empire to collapse. “The United States will suffer,” he warned.

Over a dinner of dumplings, tofu, and stir-fried pork, Yan said that America’s strength must be measured partly by its ability to persuade: “American leadership has already dramatically declined in the past ten months. In 1991, when Bush, Sr., launched the war against Iraq, it got thirty-four countries to join the war effort. This time, if Trump launched a war against anyone, I doubt he would get support from even five countries. Even the U.S. Congress is trying to block his ability to start a nuclear war against North Korea.” For Chinese leaders, Yan said, “Trump is the biggest strategic opportunity.” I asked Yan how long he thought the opportunity would last. “As long as Trump stays in power,” he replied.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 03 Jan 2018 17:52

^^ Apologies for I skipped to the end and started reading backwards. Here is a portion that caught my eyes. Obviously I am cherry picking stuff that gels with my world view.

In dozens of interviews in China and the U.S., I encountered almost no one who expects China to supplant the U.S. anytime soon in its role as the world’s preëminent power. Beyond China’s economic obstacles, its political system—including constraints on speech, religion, civil society, and the Internet—drives away some of the country’s boldest and most entrepreneurial thinkers. Xi’s system inspires envy from autocrats, but little admiration from ordinary citizens around the world.

That should suit us fine and allows us to develop below the horizon while the two slug it out for global dominance.

Our only risk comes if there is some kind of a G2 between the two and the world is partitioned into two distinct and non overlapping spheres of influence. That would leave us alone to deal with China in our neck of the wood. Even then we should be able to hold our own against China and still develop if we play our cards right.

BUT the above should be no comfort and we should push ahead with determination to develop India in all areas including militarily and economically.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 03 Jan 2018 20:39

On Ports and transshipments, .....

Why do I remember a new port construction that was started in Kerala by the Adanis that would allows bigger vessels to directly dock at an Indian port?
Last edited by pankajs on 03 Jan 2018 21:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 03 Jan 2018 20:43

http://www.adaniports.com/vizhinjam-port

Vizhinjam is an ambitious plan of APSEZ to develop India’s first Mega Transhipment Container Terminal at Vizhinjam, Kerala. It will not only be the Group’s anchor point in South India but also India’s gateway to International transhipment.

The port is located at Vizhinjam (Latitude 8° 22’ N, Long 76° 57’ E), 16 km south of the State Capital, Thiruvananthapuram.

Vizhinjam enjoys a location in India that is closest to the international shipping routes. It is just 10-12 nautical miles from the busy Persian Gulf - Malacca shipping lane which accounts for almost a one third of the world shipping traffic. Besides, being central to the eastern and western coast lines of India, it can also cater well to the needs of both west and east coast of India.

Vizhinjam is endowed with natural depth of 18-20 m. This enables efficient handling of mother vessels. The site has the advantage of minimal littoral drift, resulting in minimal siltation and therefore limited maintenance dredging.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 03 Jan 2018 20:46

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/eco ... 718216.ece

Kerala Chief Minister Pinarayi Vijayan performed the groundbreaking ceremony in the presence of Ramachandran Kadannapally, Minister for Ports, Museums, Archaeology and Archives, and APSEZ CEO, Karan Adani, among others.

"We are happy with the progress made so far in developing India’s first-ever transhipment port at Vizhinjam. The port is very strategically located for access to prominent international waterways; this project will enable India to be strategically positioned as a global transhipment hub," Adani said.

Currently, more than one million TEUs (twenty-foot equivalent units) of Indian cargo get transshipped annually through foreign ports such as Colombo in Sri Lanka.

The project will be Kerala’s first-ever deep-water container transhipment port, with a deep draft of 20.5 meters and the first phase of the berth being constructed will be 800 metres in length.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 03 Jan 2018 21:03

NR, Colombo is a very efficient port.I spent just a night , barely 10-12 hours on a container ship within which all unloading, loading,etc. was done most efficiently.The tip? Just a bottle of Dewars White Label Scotch and a packet of cigggies, not the fat packet that our Johnnies expect !
I once saw the LASH vessel, Robert E.Lee expertly handled by the Colombo pilot.This is why Colombo is preferred to Indian ports apart from its superior geographical location and why the Chinese swooped to pick up what we rejected, offered to us first, Hambantota.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Singha » 03 Jan 2018 22:03

USA cannot abandon the western pacific if it wants to remain the P1 power. vital markets and allies like soko and japan cannot just be handed over into chinese vassalage if it wants to have any credibility on the street. after a move like that, even nato will splinter.

thats why the massive investments into air and naval systems as constantly posted by brar-w sahib.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 04 Jan 2018 02:27

It undoes Commodore Perry foray into Tokyo Bay.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 04 Jan 2018 09:13

Govt plays down incursion in Arunachal, but signs of China’s growing assertiveness all along LAC after Doklam - Rajat Pandit, ToI
Chinese road construction personnel intruded almost one kilometre into the Indian territory in the Upper Siang district of Arunachal Pradesh in late December but retreated after being stopped by Indian troops, who seized their two excavators and other equipment.

Indian security establishment officials on Wednesday, however, played down this yet another incident of China ratcheting up pressure all along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control (LAC) despite the disengagement of rival troops from the 73-day face-off at Doklam+ near the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction on August 28.

"There is no troop confrontation at the site near the Bishing village in Tuting area of Arunachal's Upper Siang district. It's not a Doklam-like situation. The issue is being resolved through the established coordination mechanism (flag and border personnel meetings) between the two countries ... the Chinese will be asked to take their road-construction equipment back," said an official.

But such road alignment and construction bids as well as troop transgressions across the LAC, which stretches from Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh, are highly unusual in the winter months.

Already, around 1,600-1,800 Chinese troops have established a permanent presence in the Bhutanese territory of Doklam, with the construction of two helipads, upgraded roads, scores of pre-fabricated huts, shelters and stores to withstand the chill in the high-altitude region, as reported by TOI earlier+ .

On Wednesday, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang in Beijing said his country had "never acknowledged the existence of so-called Arunachal Pradesh", while maintaining he was "unaware" about any Chinese intrusion in the Tuting area last month.

Indian officials, however, said the Chinese track-alignment and excavation activity near Bishing was first detected in late December by some villagers.


On being alerted, a joint Army-ITBP patrol trekked to the hilly area along the Siang river (which takes a 'S'-shaped turn into Arunachal) to confront the Chinese road-construction personnel and deflate the tyres of their excavators on December 28. "The handful of Chinese personnel present went back to their own side of the LAC on the same day after being told to do so. There was no face-off," said the official.

The Tuting area, incidentally, has never been a "hotspot" for India-China border tensions. Both armies undertake regular patrols to lay claim to "8-10 disputed areas" along the border in Arunachal Pradesh like Asaphila, a remote 100 sq km area in Upper Subansiri division of the state, and the so-called "Fish Tail-I and II" areas in Chaglagam sector, which take its name from the shape the LAC takes in the region.

India maintains a strong military presence in Arunachal Pradesh, with as many as four infantry divisions (over 40,000 soldiers) geared for its defence from China. Moreover, the IAF has activated six advanced landing grounds (ALGs) at Pasighat, Mechuka, Walong, Along, Ziro and Tuting in the state over the last few years for fast mobility of troops and supplies to remote areas in the state. The ALG at the small town of Tuting, for instance, was inaugurated in December 2016.

After the Doklam stand-off was diffused, with the rival troops withdrawing to around 500 meters apart, Army chief General Bipin Rawat had warned that China will continue with its efforts to nibble away disputed territories through "salami slicing", muscle-flexing and other measures.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Hari Seldon » 04 Jan 2018 10:34

India imposes antidumping duty on 98 products from China (IE)

India has imposed antidumping duty on as many as 98 products, as on December 27 last year, imported from China, Parliament was informed on Wednesday. The products on which the duty was imposed include flax fabrics, vitamin C, certain fibres and chemicals, Minister of State for Commerce and Industry C R Chaudhary said in a written reply to Rajya Sabha.

He also said trade deficit with China stood at USD 36.73 billion during April-October this fiscal. “Increasing trade deficit with China can be attributed primarily to the fact that Chinese exports to India rely strongly on manufactured items to meet the demand of fast expanding sectors like telecom and power,” he said.


Anti-dumping can only do so much. Hope there is non-tariff barrier use too.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby abhik » 04 Jan 2018 11:14

Indo-Pacific quad may soon have a gaping hole as China re-engages Japan

Apart from some historic baggage what exactly is preventing a repochment between China and Japan?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 04 Jan 2018 11:26

^We have to realize also that there is a significant section of Japanese who want to engage with Japan and move ahead.

But, Chinese actions, especially after Xi's ascendancy should be the saving grace for preventing such a rapprochement. The more the Chinese become nationalistic & militaristic, the large must be the fears in Japan that would then take care of the cross-section that wants to move on with China.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Hari Seldon » 04 Jan 2018 12:12

abhik wrote:Apart from some historic baggage what exactly is preventing a repochment between China and Japan?


Good Q.

For starters there's the Senkaku islands which will remain a sticking point. But hey, trust PRC to sweeten the deal by allowing it to become 'disputed territory' from its current status as "undisputed chinese territory' only.

Then there's the use of the NoKo proxy, supplying it with WMD no less, to threaten Japan every now and then. Kinda like how PRC uses Pak against India, only 10x worse.

Third there's lack of trust. Nanking ain't forgotten in PRC and Japan knows PRC style hardball will be more than they can take.

Japan's best option is to talk sweet top keep the trade front moving while continuing to hedge bets on the military side with the quad. IMVVHO and other standard disclaimers, of course.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 04 Jan 2018 13:11

No repeat of Doklam-type standoff with India, says China - Atul Aneja, The Hindu
China on Wednesday ruled out a Doklam-type standoff with India in Arunachal Pradesh.

Mr. Geng pointed out that upholding peace and tranquility in China-India border areas serves the common interests of both sides. Asked whether India and China could be staring at another Doklam-type standoff, as the reported incident coincided with the 20th round of border talks, Mr. Geng said he did not visualise such a situation.

“With the concerted efforts of both sides, the incident that took place in Donglang (Doklam) last year has been peacefully resolved. Besides, at the end of last year, the two sides held the 20th round of special representatives’ meeting on the boundary issue and sent out positive message to the outside world.”

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ashish raval » 04 Jan 2018 18:19

It is now time to start intruding in China and test their defenses. No point in amassing forces and keepingvthgm in brracks. Let them roam free and return when they are stopped saying sorry..just what lizard does. Make expensive for them to be on border this is only show they will understand..

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ashish raval » 04 Jan 2018 18:21

Hari Seldon wrote:India imposes antidumping duty on 98 products from China (IE)

India has imposed antidumping duty on as many as 98 products, as on December 27 last year, imported from China, Parliament was informed on Wednesday. The products on which the duty was imposed include flax fabrics, vitamin C, certain fibres and chemicals, Minister of State for Commerce and Industry C R Chaudhary said in a written reply to Rajya Sabha.

He also said trade deficit with China stood at USD 36.73 billion during April-October this fiscal. “Increasing trade deficit with China can be attributed primarily to the fact that Chinese exports to India rely strongly on manufactured items to meet the demand of fast expanding sectors like telecom and power,” he said.


Anti-dumping can only do so much. Hope there is non-tariff barrier use too.


What are we importing from China? Electronics? Surely can't be that big!!

I found this. Scary if true..no wonder we have explosion of products in such short time without going to length of manufacturing them in India. Or shall we assume we don't have technical knowhow or skills to manufacture them?

Surely none of these are rocket science to me.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-biggest-import-from-China-to-India-And-how-to-import-from-china-to-india

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby panduranghari » 04 Jan 2018 19:10

What if OBOR projects are just one way China ensures they get a regular supply of oil?

We all know China has invested heavily in Africa. I have read China is taking payment in the form of oil. Basically recycling eurodollars (US dollars which are not within the territorial limits of USA) it earns, to build useless infrastructure - some of which no one needs, a lot of which no one really can pay for. Once built this infrastucture acts like a sovereign guarantee that the oil shipments arriving at whatever ports or terminals is protected from enemies. Of course China wont keep a large force there but would hope for the national government to protect it.

If this is the game, what after there are not enough eurodollars to pass around and spend?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 04 Jan 2018 19:18

China is the cheapest producer supplier of almost every product out there. That is a known facts and we do import a lot of stuff from China including electronics because it makes sense price wise for the consumer/trader/producer.
Last edited by pankajs on 04 Jan 2018 19:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 04 Jan 2018 19:21

ashish raval wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:India imposes antidumping duty on 98 products from China (IE)



Anti-dumping can only do so much. Hope there is non-tariff barrier use too.


What are we importing from China? Electronics? Surely can't be that big!!

I found this. Scary if true..no wonder we have explosion of products in such short time without going to length of manufacturing them in India. Or shall we assume we don't have technical knowhow or skills to manufacture them?

Surely none of these are rocket science to me.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-biggest-import-from-China-to-India-And-how-to-import-from-china-to-india



Look, it is the same in the US or UK. Though now, you can see more and more “Made in Vietnam” or “Bangladesh” in Walmart.

Why?

If you check on any one of the chini firms mentioned in the quora article (a good one btw) and do a little research you will find that it is probably a private, provincial or even village level company that at some early point in its history had ties or investment from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, SoKorean or Japanese companies.

That is how Cheen got itself plugged into the global supply chain. It all started with Japan and as its wages increased those lower tech products were passed on to the Four Tigers who then passed on to the PRC as their wages increased in turn.

Now they are being passed on to Vietnam and Bangladesh from the PRC. Though Cheen as a still poor nation (compared to the Tigers) still clings on to much of the lower tech items like toys and toiletpaper even as they are making market share in the high tech ones (smartphones, telecom gear, commercial drones.)

But make no mistake, the next wave of nations in the global supply chain is coming up. If we make an effort to we can replace the chini imports of everyday white goods from Vietnam and others.

But obviously the best solution is to get OURSELVES into the global supply chain. Get in before the AI/Automation revolution anyways.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby panduranghari » 04 Jan 2018 20:15

Chola ji,
There wont be any global supply chains. Globalisation has run its course. Almost everything will be local because West is not going to be rich forever and the East wont be producing stuff for them forever.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 04 Jan 2018 20:56

panduranghari wrote:Chola ji,
There wont be any global supply chains. Globalisation has run its course. Almost everything will be local because West is not going to be rich forever and the East wont be producing stuff for them forever.


The West doesn’t have to be rich forever. Whomever was made wealthy by the global supply chain ALSO buys from the global supply chain.

The Four Tigers and ASEAN made wealth selling to Japan too. SoKo and Taiwan make most of their surplus with Cheen not the West.

But you are right in that the global supply chain might not be around in the same form in the coming decades. AI and Automation would mean there would be no longer any advantage to nations lower on the economic totem pole.

The nations who have the production lines now and who have the resource and capital (from the products coming off those lines) will automate to keep them in country. Something that Cheen is in the process of doing even now.

So one proven avenue to modernization and development for turd world nations will close.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 05 Jan 2018 15:34

Chinese president Xi Jinping wants high-tech fighting force - Straits Times
Chinese President Xi Jinping has issued a blunt call for China’s military to be ready for war and unafraid to die defending the country, as geopolitical tensions mount in Asia.

Mr Xi’s exhortation to the world’s largest fighting force came during what state media characterised as a rare address by the Chinese leader to the country’s entire military.


Mr Xi cemented his status as China’s most powerful leader in decades during a Communist Party congress in October last year, and this week’s rhetoric and images of massed soldiers and tanks seemed designed to back up his new strongman image.

China’s military personnel should “neither fear hardship nor death”, Mr Xi told thousands of military personnel during an inspection visit on Wednesday (Jan 3) to the People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA) Central Theatre Command in northern Hebei province, according to the official Xinhua news agency.

Mr Xi also called for the military, a once-backward force whose rapid modernisation over recent years has raised alarm in Asia and Washington, to continue upgrading.

He urged the PLA to step up research into high-tech means of warfare and engage in “real combat training”, Xinhua said.

“Create an elite and powerful force that is always ready for the fight, capable of combat and sure to win in order to fulfil the tasks bestowed by the party and the people in the new era,” he was quoted saying.

Mr Xi also called for the military to utilise more technologies, increase scientific education among troops, and explore more options to build an elite and inventive military.

As head of the Communist Party’s Central Military Commission, Mr Xi is commander-in-chief of China’s more than two-million-strong armed forces.

Xinhua called Mr Xi’s address to the troops “the first time for the commission to hold a mobilisation meeting for the whole armed forces”. Other media reports said thousands of troops elsewhere in the country assembled at their installations to hear his speech.

Since taking office in 2012, Mr Xi has pushed for a muscular China, including calls in October to develop a “world-class” Chinese army by 2050.

China’s neighbours have watched warily as the PLA has upgraded its arsenal with increasing sophisticated weaponry and sought to create a more effective and professional fighting force.

Analysts say Mr Xi is very unlikely to risk putting China’s still-untested new prowess into an outright military confrontation. But concerns have grown as Beijing has imposed increasingly assertive claims to vast expanses of the contested South China Sea, while engaging in confrontations with Japan over disputed islands in the East China Sea, and with India over Himalayan regions.

Temperatures also have risen over North Korean leader Kim Jong Un thumbing his nose at the world by repeatedly testing his country’s banned nuclear weapons and missiles, while exchanging tit-for-tat threats with US President Donald Trump.

During his visit to the military command this week, Mr Xi was shown in combat fatigues inspecting troops, tanks and sniper training. He also got aboard the Type 99A tank – China’s new generation main battle tank dubbed the “King of Land Warfare” by the military – as well as the Hongjian-10 missile carrier to learn their capabilities.

Praising new recruits for their physical fitness and versatile talents, Mr Xi also urged them to train hard for reconnaissance ability.

“In the past, we had more spirit than steel. Now we have plenty of equipment, so we need an even tougher and stronger spirit to wield it,” Mr Xi said.

State media also said the president paid a visit to an exhibit detailing the PLA’s experience battling American-led forces during the Korean War.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 05 Jan 2018 15:56

Interesting the supreme leader is asking PLA regularly to train to win wars.... not train well to defend China.

Which place is the supreme leader planning to invade?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ashish raval » 05 Jan 2018 16:58

^ issue with lizard is who are their allies if any if they go to war. Without allies they will quickly end up being in a weak position in international forums and being a non democrstic nation every democrstic nation in UN will oppose it and will sanction if they continue to behave that way needless to say chacha will soon be all over it. The last remain ing hope for China as ally in international forum is Russia. Sino Russian military have no synergies and nothing in common including languages so they will find it hard to operate together in event of war. Whereas NATO fights as single unit and simultaneous and relentless attacks can easily cripple China in event of war.

All Americans have to do is to keep their Aircraft carriers in the region and if lizard attack any nation under US umbrella they will reign in thousands of long range missiles and can lead to disintegration of China into old 5 regions.

Bottomline is China cannot invade any nation and neigjter it can win war against big gang. They can only use munna like Pukes to needle things.

American will certainly block Malacca and bomb gwader if they try to use land route. Their only hope is Russian oil through pipeline and hope it does not get bombed by bunker busters.

If I were China and I have to fight a war I will fear a guy who has fought for last 50 years versus believing in my army who has just fired empty shells on mountains.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 05 Jan 2018 17:31

panduranghari wrote:What if OBOR projects are just one way China ensures they get a regular supply of oil?

We all know China has invested heavily in Africa. I have read China is taking payment in the form of oil. Basically recycling eurodollars (US dollars which are not within the territorial limits of USA) it earns, to build useless infrastructure - some of which no one needs, a lot of which no one really can pay for. Once built this infrastucture acts like a sovereign guarantee that the oil shipments arriving at whatever ports or terminals is protected from enemies. Of course China wont keep a large force there but would hope for the national government to protect it.

If this is the game, what after there are not enough eurodollars to pass around and spend?

panduranghari Ji :

1. It would be stupid of China to Import Oil Gwadar etc. China has already commenced operation by using the Newly made Port of Kyuakpyu in Myanmar - about 75 Miles or so South East from Sitwe - Old name Akyab. The are berthing 300,000 DWT tankers and have an Oil Pipe Line to Kunming. In additions they have a Natural Gas Pipe Line for the Myanmar Off Shore Gas.

2. China has also Oil Imports from Kazakhstan also Natural Gas Imports from Turkmenistan.

3. Here are two Article in respect of the unsuitability of Gwadar for Oil Imports to China :

A. GWADAR & B. WHY GWADAR?

Cheers Image

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chola » 05 Jan 2018 22:42

NRao wrote:China offers 10-year visas to 'high end talent'

China is issuing long-term visas to lure highly skilled people from abroad to work in the country.

The multi-entry visas will be valid for between five and 10 years, according to state media.

Technology leaders, entrepreneurs and scientists from in-demand sectors are among those eligible to apply.

China has set out goals for its economic and social development, and sees recruiting experts from abroad as key to achieving that.

When plans for the scheme were first considered, China said at least 50,000 foreigners would benefit.

Nobel Prize winners welcome

Applications for the visas can be made online, are free of charge and will be processed quickly, the Chinese government said.

Visa holders will be allowed to remain in the country for up to 180 days at a time {this is strange}, and will be eligible to bring partners and children.

In 2016 China introduced a ranking system for expatriates, aimed at identifying the skills it wanted to attract while reducing the number of lower-skilled foreigners coming into the country.

According to a document from the Chinese government, those classed as "high-end foreign talent" included Nobel Prize winners, successful Olympic athletes and directors of "world famous colleges of music fine arts and arts".

Top scientists, heads of major financial institutions and professors of "overseas high-level universities" also fit the bill.


Aimed mainly at:

1) Overseas Cheen entrepreneurs, scientists and engineers

2) Ex-Soviet Bloc (Russian, Ukrainian) scientists and engineers

3) Horny Amreeki White Guys with Asian fetish (to turn into spies)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jan 2018 08:48

NRao,

Apologies. Your post was deleted by mistake.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jan 2018 08:51

China to build military base near Chabahar? - PTI
BEIJING: US President Donald Trump's recent outburst on Pakistan will further boost economic and defence ties between Beijing and Islamabad, including China acquiring a Pakistani military base close to Iran's Chabahar port, an official media report said on Friday.

Trump's January 1 Twitter attack+ against Pakistan where he accused it of providing safe havens to terrorists appears to be helping boost already close ties between Pakistan and China, a report in the state-run Global Times said. It attributed Islamabad's decision to allow Chinese currency in bilateral trade and financing transactions as China has stepped up its investments in the $50 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor.

The report quoted a 'Washington Times' report that China is in talks with Pakistan to build its second overseas military base as part of a push for greater maritime capabilities along strategic sea routes.

The facility could be built at Jiwani, a port near Iran's Chabahar close to the border in the Gulf of Oman, and is located a short distance from Gwadar in Balochistan province which is currently being developed b Chabahar port being jointly developed by Iran, India and Afghanistan+ to ensure a trade corridor for Indian exports to Afghanistan.

On China establishing a military base at Jiwani, a South Asian studies expert said "both Beijing and Islamabad have the ability to build a joint naval and air facility in Pakistan, but it is unnecessary at this time".

China has established its "first overseas military base in Djibouti"+ , in the Horn of Africa in Indian Ocean. However, China officially states that it is only a logistics base to service its naval personnel deployed for anti-piracy operations.

Besides Djibouti, China has also acquired the Hambantota port in Sri Lanka on a 99-year lease.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jan 2018 08:54

^ China acts fast. It will make use of the drift in the US-Pak relationship to dive deep into Pakistan, accentuate fears and make itself indispensable to Pakistan. China knows that at a people-to-people level, there is no resonance between Pakistanis and the Han. With this emotive issue, it will try to sharpen the divide and ingratiate itself in the Pakistani psyche. All part of the 3W warfare strategy.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ashish raval » 06 Jan 2018 13:57

^^ interesting to see if pukes stick to learning English in school or shifts to learning Chinese. If they do latter, it will go North Korea way like a military Pariah state. If they make wrong turn of history now, they will forget loose any goodwill they may have in USA and forget about Kashmir being even remotely discussed in UN or IMF loan being sanctioned. They are running faster than cheetah to self destruction into four smaller states. I think that will happen if US troops and CIA stays for 10 more years in Afghanistan and Trump is in office for another 4 years.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby NRao » 06 Jan 2018 15:26

^^^^^

I fully expect all nations, surrounding India, to become protectorates of China in another 25 years or less. Economically as well as militarily. And then China will deal with individual Quad nations to break the quad relationships.

I think it is very critical for Indians to build a strong political system within India first.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Jan 2018 20:22

http://zeenews.india.com/world/china-bu ... 72345.html
China building bunkers, military infrastructure for Pakistan along border with India

As the presence of Chinese soldiers on Pakistani soil continues to grow, Islamabad is taking Beijing's help to rapidly ramp up its military infrastructure along its border with India along Rajasthan. Infrastructure works done for the Pakistani Army by the Chinese include the upgrade of a forward airbase, more than 350 stone bunkers, border outposts and road network.

Zee Media has visuals that suggest at least 350 stone bunkers have already been built on the sly. The construction sites have been camouflaged to reduce their visibility. The construction activity has also not been formally conveyed to the Indian side by the Pakistani security forces at their regular flag meetings.

The expansion of the road network, along with bunkers and canals in the border areas underscores Pakistan's paranoia over preventing a crushing conventional rout at the hands of Indian forces in the event of war.

Pakistan's Khairpur air force base has seen an uptick in the presence of Chinese troops over the past few months. The upgrade and expansion works at Khairpur, combined with the three other airstrips that are being built close to the India border.


So in case of a war, India will be destroying CNY assets rather than PKR assets. :)


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