Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

[Rahulsidhu]

Code: Select all

Country		     Exports Imports  Total$B	Trade Balance
1 China 			  16.34 	68.10 	84.44 	-52.70
2 United States 	46.00 	21.70 	67.70 	24.30
3 UAE				  30.29 	19.45 	49.74 	10.84
4 Saudi Arabia 	 6.39 	 20.32 	26.72 	-13.93
5 Switzerland 	  0.98 	 19.30 	20.28 	-18.32

Our imports from China exceed our TOTAL trade volume with our second-biggest trading partner, the US.

Also, our trade deficit with China is greater than the trade surpluses we have with our next two biggest trading partners, US and UAE, combined.

This is very important to keep in mind when thinking about Indian economy or foreign policy. Would like to add a couple of points:

1) The trade deficit with China is very likely under-stated in official numbers. A lot of imports are under-invoiced to avoid customs duties, and then money is laundered out of the country to pay for the balance (typically to HK accounts of the exporter). It is also for this reason that HK has replaced Dubai as the main money laundering offshore center for India.
This also helps Chinese goods be more competitive on the Indian market than Indian goods.

2) The phased hiking of customs duty on electronics imports is highly significant and an under-rated move by the Modi govt. Electronics forms a huge part of the imports from China.

[Chandragupta]

Nails it.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/India-C ... -strategy2

[pankajs]

No kamment

Ananth Krishnan @ananthkrishnan

The cover of this week’s edition of Huanqiu, the widely read Chinese news magazine, with the headline: “India’s choice in the changing world”.pic.twitter.com/3Qv8pQHySw

[pankajs]

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomac ... -wish-list
Taiwan puts US Abrams battle tanks on military wish list

Taiwan will decide by the end of this year whether it will buy a series of US battle tanks – and if so, how many – amid expectations of greater military pressure from mainland China.

National Defence Minister Yen Teh-fa told a panel of legislators that the US M1A2 Abrams tanks would be key to the island’s last line of defence under a strategy Taipei unveiled late last year.

Yen also said the tanks could help transfer technology to the island’s defence industry, Taiwan’s Central News Agency reported on Monday.

“The Taiwan Strait is very likely to replace the Korean peninsula as the hottest flashpoint in the region,” he said.

[pankajs]

Yesterday ... on the Chinese side. I am 400% sure that both sides are saluting the Chinese flag.

Ajay Banerjee @ajaynewsman

Pics of #India #China military meeting Moldo garrison on Chinese side facing Chusul Eastern ladakh. @DefenceMinIndia @thetribunechd @adgpi @NorthernComd_IApic.twitter.com/d4RNUelVPM

[pankajs]

http://www.atimes.com/article/china-thr ... eijing-go/
China threatens Taiwan, but how far will Beijing go?

Chinese President Xi Jinping, in a highly-charged speech before the National People’s Congress, warned that Beijing was ready to fight its enemies in a “bloody battle” to regain its past glory and preserve its empire. Subsequently, an editorial in the Global Times, a state-owned but unofficial outlet for ideas that Beijing wishes to float for reaction, said China must prepare for a “direct military clash in the Taiwan Straits”. These are not just words.

In fact, Taiwan is indeed beginning to openly discuss full independence. It is noteworthy that Xi has stated that resolution of the issue of Taiwan cannot be left to the future.

In recent weeks, Beijing sailed its aircraft carrier and associated support vessels through the Taiwan Strait, conducting live-fire exercises, and flew its bombers and fighters around the island nation at least twice last month.

This is not the first display of force by China in the area and China has not hesitated to engage in actual hostilities with regard to Taiwan.

[Peregrine]

X Posted on the Terroristani Thread

China tensions push India into world's top five defence spenders

NEW DELHI: India has joined the United States and China as one of the world's five biggest military spenders, reflecting geopolitical tensions as well as the country's reliance on imported weapons and sprawling personnel costs.

New Delhi's defence spending rose by 5.5 percent to $63.9 billion in 2017 and has now passed France, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said in a report released on Wednesday.

Worldwide military spending rose marginally last year to $1.73 trillion, or roughly 2.2 percent of global gross domestic product, the group said. The list of the world's biggest military spenders has remained consistent in recent years, dominated by the US and China, which spent $610 billion and $228 billion respectively, according to SIPRI, which researches global arms spending.

However, the group said the balance of military spending is "clearly shifting" toward Asia, Oceania and the Middle East, driven largely by spending increases in China, India and Saudi Arabia.

China spends far more on its military than any other power in Asia.

Beijing's share of worldwide military expenditure rose to 13 percent in 2017 from just 5.8 percent in 2008, according to SIPRI. The Chinese government has increased spending 8.5 percent per year between 2007 and 2016 and its leaders "seem committed to increases in defence spending for the foreseeable future, even as China's economic growth slows," according to a US department of defence report on China's military.

In India's case, however, increased spending doesn't mean the armed forces are deploying state-of-the-art equipment. The rise in defence spending mostly goes toward salaries and pensions for roughly 1.4 million serving personnel and more than 2 million veterans, said Laxman Kumar Behera, a research fellow with New Delhi's Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses.

"Because so much money is consumed by manpower costs, there isn't enough left over to buy equipment," Behera said.

India's own army echoes that sentiment. Vice-Chief of Army Staff Lt Gen Sarath Chand told a parliamentary committee in March the current budget barely accounts for inflation and tax payments. Only 14 percent goes toward military modernization compared to 63 percent for salaries, Chand said.

SIPRI previously ranked India as the world's largest arms importer because its domestic defence manufacturing industry remains curtailed by red tape, a reliance on state-owned defence companies and procurement delays.

Faced with geopolitical threats from Pakistan and China, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has tried to boost domestic defence production with his 'Make in India' programme.


Yet, ministry of defence data released in response to a parliamentary question shows that procurement from Indian vendors has declined since 2014 — when Modi came to power — while procurement from foreign vendors increased slightly. Overall equipment procurement also dipped, the data shows.

Cheers

[rsingh]

Yesterday ... on the Chinese side. I am 400% sure that both sides are saluting the Chinese flag.

Ajay Banerjee @ajaynewsman

Pics of #India #China military meeting Moldo garrison on Chinese side facing Chusul Eastern ladakh. @DefenceMinIndia @thetribunechd @adgpi @NorthernComd_IApic.twitter.com/d4RNUelVPM

They have to follow protocol. They are not dumb.

[Prem]

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articl ... n-pakistan
India Can Relax. There’s a Bigger Belt and Road Bet Than Pakistan

After a two-day “informal summit” between Xi Jinping and Narendra Modi, China and India agreed to avoid military disputes on their contested Himalayan border. Left unresolved was a much bigger issue: what China is doing in Pakistan. Fifty years ago, Pakistan’s foreign minister gave a box of mangoes to Mao Zedong, little realizing that this gesture would secure a special friendship.Now, Islamabad relies on China for infrastructure – and weaponry – after its relationship with the U.S. soured. As part of Xi’s Belt and Road initiative, Pakistan has received $62 billion of investment pledges to build the China Pakistan Economic Corridor. The brotherly warmth doesn’t end there: “CPEC marriages” are going viral.India is understandably alarmed. The corridor crosses Pakistan-administered Kashmir, a territory disputed with India. Meanwhile, Sri Lanka’s Hambantota port and Pakistan’s Gwadar Port, leased to China for 99 and 43 years, might one day serve as Chinese naval bases. India is feeling boxed in.Some zoology, however: Carnivorous Chinese tigers won’t eat mangoes. But they do have a taste for durian, known as the king of fruits and celebrated in Malaysia.Even though China has pledged the largest sum to Pakistan, Malaysia has quietly raced ahead of the pack in securing Chinese money, with $34 billion of China-backed infrastructure projects started. Pakistan has broken ground on projects aggregating only half that amount, according to Nomura Securities estimates.If China floods its neighbor with imports, Pakistan might default on one of its loans. External debt soared to almost $90 billion by the end of 2017, against just $11.4 billion in foreign-exchange reserves. Adding China’s $62 billion investment pledge, Pakistan’s debt burden would almost double. (The News reported Monday in Pakistan that the government may seek $2 to $3 billion as deposits from China, and might raise another $2.5 billion through a global bond.)China is clearly assigning a higher risk premium to Pakistan. While Malaysia’s $14 billion rail link is financed with a 3.25 percent soft loan from China’s policy bank, project advances in Pakistan can have interest rates as high as 5 percent.
So for now, India can stop worrying. Geopolitics aside, China is focused on internal rates of return.

[pankajs]

Yesterday ... on the Chinese side. I am 400% sure that both sides are saluting the Chinese flag.

They have to follow protocol. They are not dumb.

I was just trying to make a point i.e. because the meeting occurred on Chinese side and the flags are not visible it can be claimed that both the Indian and Chinese army personnel were saluting the Chinese flag. There is no way to refute this except by producing the picture with the flags in the frame which is impossible if one is not privy to the function.

If memory serves me right, I once saw a picture of a similar meet where both the Chinese and the Indian flags were being flown together and were being saluted together. I have no doubt that both the Indian and the Chinese flags were part of the recently concluded function.

[pankajs]

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... m-5160656/
The Wuhan window

Since the two leaders must have spoken to each other for several hours, even allowing for interpretation, their agenda must have been extraordinarily broad. While the official word on the talks has been that the leaders did not go into specifics but focused on overarching, long-term and strategic issues instead, is it realistic that these latter issues would have occupied so much conversation space? One hopes that the several hours of summit-level engagement did result in a shared understanding of the rapidly transforming regional and global geopolitical landscape, how these changes impact on the prospects of emerging powers like India and China and to what extent the two countries are willing to mitigate the competitive component in their relations to better cope with an uncertain and unpredictable world. Reading through the Indian press statement and the briefing given separately by the Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Kong Xuanyou at the conclusion of the summit, one gets the impression that certain tacit understandings may have been arrived at though they have not been publicly articulated. There are clues which point to such understandings.

<snip>

India-China relations must be managed through a mix of competitive and cooperative policies and regular leadership-level interaction. The Wuhan Consensus reflects this understanding. But at the end of the day, the only effective instrument for managing India-China relations will be a significant, sustained and rapid development of India’s economic and security capabilities, thus narrowing the power gap between the two Asian giants.

2 days back I had seen an interview of a furrin professor who was very dismissive of India on the same meeting. I will post that one too if I find it again.

[SSridhar]

X-posted from Foreign Policy thread.

Macron wants strategic Paris-Delhi-Canberra axis amid Pacific tension - Reuters

French President Emmanuel Macron on Wednesday called for the creation of a new strategic alliance among France, India and Australia to respond to challenges in the Asia-Pacific region and the growing assertiveness of China.

On the second day of a visit to Australia, where he hopes to cement defence ties following the 2016 signing of a $38 billion megadeal to supply submarines to the Australian navy, Macron said the like-minded democracies should forge closer ties.

"We're not naive: if we want to be seen and respected by China as an equal partner, we must organise ourselves," Macron said in a speech at an Australian naval base.

Macron visited China in January, where he warned Beijing that its new "Silk Road" initiative should not be "one-way".

He then flew to India in March, where he committed to strengthen a defence partnership that has already seen New Delhi buy French warplanes in 2016.

"This new Paris-Delhi-Canberra axis is absolutely key for the region and our joint objectives in the Indian-Pacific region," Macron said.

His visit to Australia, only the second by a French president, comes amid heightened tensions in the Pacific, where France has numerous interests.

France has island territories spanning the Indo-Pacific: Reunion and Mayotte in the Indian Ocean, and Noumea, Wallis and Futuna and French Polynesia in the Pacific.

Australia and New Zealand have each separately warned that China is seeking to exert influence in the Pacific through its international aid programme, an allegation Beijing denies.

[pankajs]

This is the analysis I had referred to in my last post. Interesting read.

http://indianexpress.com/article/explai ... m-5159123/
Why did China agree to Wuhan?
Anything which arrests India’s potential drift towards the US and its allies is good for China.

There are several puzzling aspects to the Wuhan Summit. Even if one believes, as is being argued in some circles, that India asked for an informal summit, why would China agree to have one?

I think Xi Jinping regards India as a potential ally of the US and Japan against China. India by itself is not a serious problem. The border is in control of the Chinese if they wish to exercise it, simply because they are on higher slopes and have more troops there. But anything which arrests India’s potential drift towards the US and its allies is good for China. The Chinese were perhaps quite happy to have an informal summit: they could hear what Modi had to say and placate him a little. It was no skin off their nose. It was not in Beijing where they might have had to roll out the red carpets. And being informal, no documentary evidence was required for any agreements of great significance. [Hmm .. I was under the impression that India has more troops at the border than China or the prof. may not have all his information right after all.]

So an informal summit was a low-cost, high-benefit option for China.

That is right. And Modi, I would suspect, also wanted some kind of assurance that whatever problems he has with Pakistan until the 2019 elections, China as Pakistan’s benefactor did not jump up and down on its border, and threaten India.

Do the Chinese not think in civilisational terms?

Yes, but not the same way. India has spawned quite a few civilisations, several religions and a diversity of cultures. The Chinese have never emphasised diversity as a civilisational virtue. Theirs is a very different concept of civilisation.

[yensoy]

They have to follow protocol. They are not dumb.

I was just trying to make a point i.e. because the meeting occurred on Chinese side and the flags are not visible it can be claimed that both the Indian and Chinese army personnel were saluting the Chinese flag. There is no way to refute this except by producing the picture with the flags in the frame which is impossible if one is not privy to the function.

If memory serves me right, I once saw a picture of a similar meet where both the Chinese and the Indian flags were being flown together and were being saluted together. I have no doubt that both the Indian and the Chinese flags were part of the recently concluded function.

It's clear from their poses that there are 2 flags. Now there wouldn't be much point in having 2 Chinese flags, right?

Let's move on with substantive discussion, shall we ?

[UlanBatori]

Chinese military in Djibouti uses "military-grade" lasers to shoot at US planes, eye injuries reported.

Sounds like a lot is going on in Africa. "first overseas chinese base" ? How about Splatry Islands and Phillippines and Myanmar?

[Peregrine]

China removes import duties on 28 medicines; India to get boost

NEW DELHI: China on Thursday said it has removed import duties on as many as 28 medicines, including all cancer drugs, from May 1, a move which would help India to export these pharmaceuticals to the neighbouring country.

"China has exempted import tariffs (duties) for 28 drugs, including all cancer drugs, from May 1st. Good news for India's pharmaceutical industry and medicine export to China. I believe this will help reduce trade imbalance between China and India in the future," Chinese Ambassador to India Luo Zhaohui said in a tweet.

The development assumes significance as India has time and again asked for greater market access for its goods and services, including IT, pharmaceuticals and agriculture, in the Chinese market to reduce the widening trade deficit.

In the meeting of India China Joint Group on Economic Relations, Trade, Science and Technology here, the issue of trade imbalance was discussed in detail. China on its part promised to address the trade gap issue.

Trade deficit with China stood at $36.73 billion during April-October 2017-18. It was $51 billion in 2016-17.

He also said that China would further improve business environment by halving time required to open a business.

"China's door to the outside world will open wider. Indian businesses are welcome," he added.

India too has sought investments from China. The neighbouring country has agreed to set up industry park in India to increase investments and bridge trade deficit.

Cheers

[ramana]

Chinese military in Djibouti uses "military-grade" lasers to shoot at US planes, eye injuries reported.

Sounds like a lot is going on in Africa. "first overseas chinese base" ? How about Splatry Islands and Phillippines and Myanmar?

The Djibouti base is collocated with the US base. All foreign bases are nearby each other.
its a rent operation by Somalia.
All these folks want to dominate the Red Sea area and opened shop.



UB what they mean is the others are in Chinese claimed areas.

[UlanBatori]

One did not want to point out the obvious. There is also the situation developing around the enquiry into the death of 4 Special Faujis somewhere in Africa. Looking at it from outside (all sympathy for the dead soldiers' families of course):
1) They were there on a specific mission to KILL a local neta. Not to go talk to him but to KILL him.
2) On whose authority? Does the US own that place? Does US have the right to go and kill their citizens on their soil? Did they have Marshall's credentials? Given by whom?
3) Did UN authorize US armed presence and aggressive action (killing a local leader is aggressive, isn't it?)
4) Who passed the death sentence, and based on what evidence? Collected by the same worthies who run the "SAVE" system where they told me they could find no evidence of my having entered the US, though I had a passport stamped by US immigration? Or by the einsteins who run the No-Phly Lijt, where they can't tell one Abdul or Khan from another?

The ironic thing is that everyone was upset that the frogistani Mirages flew overhead but did not bomb, because they didn't know whom to bomb.

The attackers were walking away, seeming in no particular hurry

The "ATTACKERS"? They were minding their own bijnej beheading the odd kuffar etc when the foreigners came blundering in with intent to kill THEM, weren't they? Didn't they have a right to defend themselves by ambushing the violent intruders?

Now cheen may offer protection to these people, from the frogs and Great Satan.

[shiv]

https://twitter.com/subnut/status/992225310451134466
Retired Submariner - Vice Adm Arun Mumar Singh about Spratlys

Arun Kumar Singh
‏ @subnut
31m31 minutes ago

Fiery Cross Reef, Subi Reef, Mischief Reef in Spratly islands, maybe "unsinkable aircraft carriers", but they can be "defanged" in minutes by land attack cruise missiles or air attacks, if the balloon ever goes up. .

[Aditya_V]

X Posted on the Terroristani Thread

China tensions push India into world's top five defence spenders

NEW DELHI: India has joined the United States and China as one of the world's five biggest military spenders, reflecting geopolitical tensions as well as the country's reliance on imported weapons and sprawling personnel costs.

New Delhi's defence spending rose by 5.5 percent to $63.9 billion in 2017 and has now passed France, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said in a report released on Wednesday.

Worldwide military spending rose marginally last year to $1.73 trillion, or roughly 2.2 percent of global gross domestic product, the group said. The list of the world's biggest military spenders has remained consistent in recent years, dominated by the US and China, which spent $610 billion and $228 billion respectively, according to SIPRI, which researches global arms spending.

However, the group said the balance of military spending is "clearly shifting" toward Asia, Oceania and the Middle East, driven largely by spending increases in China, India and Saudi Arabia.

China spends far more on its military than any other power in Asia.

Beijing's share of worldwide military expenditure rose to 13 percent in 2017 from just 5.8 percent in 2008, according to SIPRI. The Chinese government has increased spending 8.5 percent per year between 2007 and 2016 and its leaders "seem committed to increases in defence spending for the foreseeable future, even as China's economic growth slows," according to a US department of defence report on China's military.

In India's case, however, increased spending doesn't mean the armed forces are deploying state-of-the-art equipment. The rise in defence spending mostly goes toward salaries and pensions for roughly 1.4 million serving personnel and more than 2 million veterans, said Laxman Kumar Behera, a research fellow with New Delhi's Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses.

"Because so much money is consumed by manpower costs, there isn't enough left over to buy equipment," Behera said.

India's own army echoes that sentiment. Vice-Chief of Army Staff Lt Gen Sarath Chand told a parliamentary committee in March the current budget barely accounts for inflation and tax payments. Only 14 percent goes toward military modernization compared to 63 percent for salaries, Chand said.

SIPRI previously ranked India as the world's largest arms importer because its domestic defence manufacturing industry remains curtailed by red tape, a reliance on state-owned defence companies and procurement delays.

Faced with geopolitical threats from Pakistan and China, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has tried to boost domestic defence production with his 'Make in India' programme.


Yet, ministry of defence data released in response to a parliamentary question shows that procurement from Indian vendors has declined since 2014 — when Modi came to power — while procurement from foreign vendors increased slightly. Overall equipment procurement also dipped, the data shows.

Cheers

Quite Frankly SIpri reports are Hogwash and psy ops. There have been a lot of domestic orders and mega purchases like C-17, C-130 etc have all come down. And quite frankly they underreport Saudi and Chinese imports. Absolute lack of proper hard data for some of these claims in the report.

[pankajs]

No Kamment

Manjeet S. Pardesi @manjeetsp

In Maldives "India stepped back at the last minute after intelligence reports suggested that Chinese special forces had been quietly embedded in a construction project linking the capital city with the island on which the airport is located"http://str.sg/oN5W

[Peregrine]

India energises diplomacy in neigbourhood

NEW DELHI: Pushing a regional integration strategy as part of its foreign policy in the neighbourhood, India is building energy infrastructure in several south Asian countries. In Sri Lanka, where power plants are run mainly on liquid fuel, India recently signed an agreement to build an LNG terminal near Colombo in collaboration with Japan. Stupidity of The First Order, I say! Build one in Vizhinjam. Let Colombo become a Chinese Slave like Terroristan.

This will help Sri Lanka transition from more polluting fuels to less polluting ones. India sees this as incremental energy diplomacy. The hope is Sri Lanka, after moving to LNG from oil or coal, in the next step would see growth of CNG for vehicles and piped gas for households and commercial establishments in cities like Colombo. That would further aid India in expanding its energy markets outside the country. Bangladesh is already moving towards a gas-based economy, having significant gas resources of its own.

However, they will soon be running out of the resource. In Bangladesh, India is building a 6.5 mmtpa LNG terminal in Qutubdiya island off Chittagong for which a joint working group is already at work. India also wants to supply LNG to the Jessore-Khulna power plant with LNG from Dhamra. The two countries are currently working to connect their grids and finalised the alignment of the supply from Panitar on the Indian side. Sources said, India wants to ramp up supply substantively to Bangladesh’s energy grid. Modi Ji in General and India in Particular will rue this day. It will allow more and more Beedee Terrorists - Chinese and Terroristani Origin-Trained - to infiltrate into India!

In addition, India would build connections from north-east states into Bangladesh — this would allow India to transport LNG to its northeast via Bangladesh. Foreign secretary Vijay Gokhale, during his recent trip to Dhaka, signed an MOU to build a petro products pipeline from Siliguri to Parbatipaur in Bangladesh. India plans to supply diesel to Bangladesh from the Numaligarh refinery, which is already being augmented from 3 to 9 mmtpa.

Nepal PM K P Oli’s visit provided an opportunity for India and Nepal to augment an existing energy relationship by inaugurating a petro products pipeline between Motihari and Amlekhganj. India has also agreed to run an LPG pipeline along the same alignment. Myanmar and India have just started talks for India to build an LNG terminal near Yangon.

India, which also supplies 100% of energy products to Mauritius, is considering an LNG terminal there too, to help Mauritius transition to cleaner fuel as well. Maldives is the only country in the neighbourhood where India is not moving at all. Officials said there was no interest forthcoming from the Maldives government. This has my unequivocal support. Well done Modi Ji!

Cheers

[g.sarkar]

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/what- ... 180504.htm
What did Modi want from the Chinese?
May 04, 2018 11:01 IST
'Some have speculated that it has to do with Doklam and the 2019 elections.'
'That Modi asked Xi not to embarrass him by sending the Chinese army into Bhutan again, this time rolling over our resistance,' says Aakar Patel.
.....
These are the things that we know about our recent relations with China that were not spoken about by either India or China during Modi's visit.
The visit was given front page treatment in India, meaning that the reporters covering the ministry of external affairs believe it is significant but it has been casually received in China.
Hong Kong's South China Morning Post did not have coverage of the visit on its front page. The official China Daily led with the story of peace between North and South Korea instead of Modi's visit.
It appears that India wants this visit more than China does which means that we are looking for something from them.
But what?
Some have speculated that it has to do with Doklam and the 2019 elections.
That Modi asked Xi not to embarrass him by sending the Chinese army into Bhutan again, this time rolling over our resistance.
I hope this is not the case and that this is not what Modi said, because it would be disturbing.
...
Gautam

[Hari Seldon]

Xi’s compulsions to meet in Wuhan were greater than Modi’s (AVM ARJUN SUBRAMANIAM (RETD) in the print)

The firefight at Nathula and Chola in 1967; the Sumdorong Chu incident and the recent stand-off at Doklam are some examples of India standing firm in the face of attempted coercion by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA). Concurrently, there have also been occasions when the PLA’s moves have taken India by surprise — in Depsang, Chumar and two areas called Fish Tail 1 and Fish Tail 2 in Arunachal Pradesh.

[Peregrine]

PM Narendra Modi, President Xi could meet 3 more times this year: Chinese envoy

NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping have the opportunity to meet at least three times this year to take forward their friendship forged during their unprecedented informal summit in Wuhan, China's ambassador to India Luo Zhaohui said on Friday.

Addressing a seminar here on the 'Wuhan Summit: Sino-India Relations and its Way Forward', Luo said the two leaders reached broad consensus on the overarching, long-term and strategic issues of global and bilateral importance during their two-day summit in the central Chinese city last week.

The summit in Wuhan was seen as an effort by India and China to rebuild trust and improve ties that were hit by the 73-day-long Dokalam standoff last year.

Giving a first-hand briefing to scholars and journalists on the informal summit, which he dubbed as a "very special event" in Chinese diplomacy, Luo noted that President Xi has never hosted a foreign leader twice outside the Chinese capital Beijing.

Xi had hosted Modi in the central Chinese city of X'ian in 2015 and last week the two leaders met in Wuhan.

"This shows that China attaches high importance to its relations with India," he said.

The envoy said the idea of holding an informal summit was first mooted by Prime Minister Modi when he met President Xi on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation in Astana, Kazakhstan in 2017. After that, the two side worked very hard to make it happen, he said.

Luo said President Xi and Prime Minister Modi will have three more opportunities this year to carry forward their fruitful and wide-ranging conversations in Wuhan.

The ambassador said the two leaders could meet at the next Shanaghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) summit to be held in June in Qingdao, China, the BRICS Summit in Johannesburg, South Africa and the next G20 Summit in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

He said the officials concerned of the two countries were closely working to facilitate these meetings and implement the consensus reached between the two leaders in Wuhan.

The ambassador said the two leaders had in-depth discussions and reached consensus on their respective visions for national development as well as domestic and foreign policies.

China and India, the two biggest developing countries and emerging economies --each with a population of over one billion, are important countries with strategic autonomy.

"A peaceful, stable and balanced relationship between China and India is an important positive factor for the stability of the world," he said.

On the differences between China and India, including the vexed boundary issue, the envoy said the two leaders have given strategic guidance to the officials on both sides to properly manage and control their differences.

He underlined that both countries have the maturity and wisdom to handle their differences through peaceful discussion and by respecting each other's concerns and aspirations.

Both leaders have agreed to use the Special Representatives' Meeting on the boundary issue to seek a "fair, reasonable and mutually acceptable settlement".

As the two major countries in Asia, China and India will work together to make international relations more democratic, increase the representation and say of developing countries and emerging markets, support the multilateral trading regime, oppose protectionism and work for an open, inclusive, balanced and win-win economic globalisation that benefits all, he said.

Luo also said that both sides have agreed to instruct officials to work out specific plans and measures to implement the consensus reached between President Xi and Prime Minister Modi and further build on the informal summit in Wuhan and work towards opening new vistas in China-India relations.

Cheers

[pankajs]

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/what- ... 180504.htm
What did Modi want from the Chinese?
May 04, 2018 11:01 IST
'Some have speculated that it has to do with Doklam and the 2019 elections.'
'That Modi asked Xi not to embarrass him by sending the Chinese army into Bhutan again, this time rolling over our resistance,' says Aakar Patel.

China will rollover the Indian army just like the last time at Doklam. So Modi went to ensure that he is not embarrassed like the last time.

Bekar Patel is right! We must reward him for his brilliant analysis. Perhaps the lota award.

[Karthik S]

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/what- ... 180504.htm
What did Modi want from the Chinese?
May 04, 2018 11:01 IST
'Some have speculated that it has to do with Doklam and the 2019 elections.'
'That Modi asked Xi not to embarrass him by sending the Chinese army into Bhutan again, this time rolling over our resistance,' says Aakar Patel.
.....
These are the things that we know about our recent relations with China that were not spoken about by either India or China during Modi's visit.
The visit was given front page treatment in India, meaning that the reporters covering the ministry of external affairs believe it is significant but it has been casually received in China.
Hong Kong's South China Morning Post did not have coverage of the visit on its front page. The official China Daily led with the story of peace between North and South Korea instead of Modi's visit.
It appears that India wants this visit more than China does which means that we are looking for something from them.
But what?
Some have speculated that it has to do with Doklam and the 2019 elections.
That Modi asked Xi not to embarrass him by sending the Chinese army into Bhutan again, this time rolling over our resistance.
I hope this is not the case and that this is not what Modi said, because it would be disturbing.
...
Gautam

Rediff is as leftist and idiotic as it comes. Wonder what's the point of reading and posting articles from it.

[rsingh]

Yesterday ... on the Chinese side. I am 400% sure that both sides are saluting the Chinese flag.

Ajay Banerjee @ajaynewsman

Pics of #India #China military meeting Moldo garrison on Chinese side facing Chusul Eastern ladakh. @DefenceMinIndia @thetribunechd @adgpi @NorthernComd_IApic.twitter.com/d4RNUelVPM

Actually there is nothing new here. It happened in 2015 as well.
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/defen ... 150801.htm

Here in on Indian side.......same thing.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... an-troops/

[rsingh]

Addressing a seminar here on the 'Wuhan Summit: Sino-India Relations and its Way Forward', Luo said the two leaders reached broad consensus on the overarching, long-term and strategic issues of global and bilateral importance during their two-day summit in the central Chinese city last week.

India: Indian ocean is ours. leave S. Lanka, Maldieve, B. Desh and Nepal. We will deal with Bakistan on our own. If we attack Bakistan we will inform you in advance so that you can remove your nationals. No Chinese projects in POK.
China: Yellow sea is mine. Please do not make any alliance with Japan,US and Australia. Do not put your assets in Vietnam. China guarantee full freedom to Indian vessels in China sea.
India: That is interesting, what about your suicidal investments in Bakistan? why not use Chabbar port? It is more safe and straight. Bakistan is most unstable piece of land governed by beggars who beg with gun on their own hand. What if they one fine day they decide to throw you out by raging jihad......
China: Hummm that makes sense but what do you want in return?
India : A peaceful and friendly nation of Baluchistan.
China:ok we have to meet often. What do you think ?
India: Yes. we have to. Meanwhile we have to go to our babus and parliament to iron out some pts
China: why bother?
India: Democracy.
China: Democrazy .......ah ya.

[pankajs]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr
Wuhan Summit impact: Chinese media for incremental tactic

An article published in The Global Times, a Beijing-headquartered state-run Chinese tabloid, while acknowledging that India’s geostrategic concerns for the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) and other Chinese initiatives would persist, said: “China has the right to cooperate with any other sovereign countries in the region, while India also has the right to like or dislike China’s initiatives in the region. But the bright side is that, instead of focusing too much on the CPEC, China and India can better align their interests by staging out regional initiatives that are paralleled to the CPEC.”

This is believed to be with reference to the proposed joint Indo-China economic project in Wuhan. ET has learnt that a proposal for a rail link between China and Iran via Afghanistan and parts of Central Asia might be one of proposals for joint projects in Afghanistan.

While the article referred to China-Nepal-India trilateral corridor or the Bangladesh-China-India-Myanmar corridor, India’s response to these proposals has been tepid.

The Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) is an excellent example of this “incremental approach”, according to the article. “The AIIB was newly initiated by China in 2015, but India has not only gained significant political capitals in the field of international finance by becoming the bank’s second-largest shareholder but also has harvested considerable economic benefits as its largest loans recipient,” it said.

There was this one report from the "grandmother crossing LOC" tale bearer that the joint project was for a railway line to Torkham on Af-Pak border. This report declares it to be headed for Iran.

I would think that GOI would likely work with China on the railway link to Iran rather than to Bakistan. A line to Torkham would be an endorsement for CPEC where as a link to Iran, most likely to the India built railway line in Iran to Chabhaar, would be a boot to Chabhaar.

[kiranA]

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/what- ... 180504.htm
What did Modi want from the Chinese?
May 04, 2018 11:01 IST
'Some have speculated that it has to do with Doklam and the 2019 elections.'
'That Modi asked Xi not to embarrass him by sending the Chinese army into Bhutan again, this time rolling over our resistance,' says Aakar Patel.
.....
These are the things that we know about our recent relations with China that were not spoken about by either India or China during Modi's visit.
The visit was given front page treatment in India, meaning that the reporters covering the ministry of external affairs believe it is significant but it has been casually received in China.
Hong Kong's South China Morning Post did not have coverage of the visit on its front page. The official China Daily led with the story of peace between North and South Korea instead of Modi's visit.
It appears that India wants this visit more than China does which means that we are looking for something from them.
But what?
Some have speculated that it has to do with Doklam and the 2019 elections.
That Modi asked Xi not to embarrass him by sending the Chinese army into Bhutan again, this time rolling over our resistance.
I hope this is not the case and that this is not what Modi said, because it would be disturbing.
...
Gautam

No lies told by Aakar patel. There was a time when AAkar used to be shrill against Modi but with so many mistakes made by government he can present facts as they come. This is clearly a show of weakness by India and whether there is a benefit to India for this weakness or this is a political benefit at expense of humiliating India internationally is unknown as the govt doesnt want to tell us what was the agenda. Some spins on this meeting are awful.

One spin is that Xi came to Wuhan to meet Modi - what in the world is that supposed to mean ? isnt Wuhan not in China ? if as head of household i meet another almost enemy like head of household in my kitchen because i like to cook instead of full honors in drawing room - would i expect a thanks for inviting him to kitchen ?

Another fact that Modi invited Xi for an informal meeting in India and chinese rejected in diplomatese saying they will be in touch using "several communication channels " is another humiliation. This was spinned as "favourable response " in media. I was wondering what the heck is a "favourable response" instead of yes or no-response then i realized it was a brutal No couched in diplmatic language.

This is a terrible disappointment and reminds me of demon where modi took a secret decision and sprang a surprise on everyone. We all know how that went.

[pankajs]

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/what- ... 180504.htm
What did Modi want from the Chinese?

No lies told by Aakar patel. [Where you present in the meeting at Wuhan or Are you a mind reader? How do you know that Bekar Patel is not spilling his hate for Modi out on the net?] There was a time when AAkar used to be shrill against Modi but with so many mistakes made by government he can present facts as they come. This is clearly a show of weakness by India and whether there is a benefit to India for this weakness or this is a political benefit at expense of humiliating India internationally is unknown as the govt doesnt want to tell us what was the agenda. Some spins on this meeting are awful. [Assuming that by weakness/humiliation you mean Modi traveling to Whuhan for talks with the Chinese. Bhell that begs the question, Did the Chinese president traveling to Ahmedabad for meeting with Modi was a weakness/humiliation for China? Then there is the latest news of Xi traveling to Japan for a meeting. Will you also read that as a weakness/humiliation for China? What logic applies to India should also apply to China no.]

One spin is that Xi came to Wuhan to meet Modi - what in the world is that supposed to mean ? isnt Wuhan not in China ? if as head of household i meet another almost enemy like head of household in my kitchen because i like to cook instead of full honors in drawing room - would i expect a thanks for inviting him to kitchen ? [So you mean to say that Modi receiving Xi in Ahmedabad was an insult to Xi and not a honor? Again what applies to India also applies to China no]

Another fact that Modi invited Xi for an informal meeting in India and chinese rejected in diplomatese saying they will be in touch using "several communication channels " is another humiliation. This was spinned as "favourable response " in media. I was wondering what the heck is a "favourable response" instead of yes or no-response then i realized it was a brutal No couched in diplmatic language.

This is a terrible disappointment and reminds me of demon where modi took a secret decision and sprang a surprise on everyone. We all know how that went.

I remember you from the demon thread. That the demon hurt you then and is still hurting you, I can understand your spin in that context.

BTW, weren't you the one who once suggested once that foreign policy should be delegated to the individual states?

[pankajs]

^^
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomac ... -next-year
Xi Jinping likely to make official Japan visit next year as two sides try to mend fences

Both sides trying to mend fences BUT Xi traveling to Japan. Is that Xi/China preparing to show his weakness / get himself and China humiliated by your logic?

Note also, between China and Japan, the "commoner's perception" in the world based on China's recent antics is that China is stronger than Japan. Therefore, Xi traveling to Japan to "mend fences" is double weakness/humiliation for Xi/China by your logic.

Folks on this forum can see that your thinking/logic is still spinning from the demon blow.

[Karthik S]

No lies told by Aakar patel. [Where you present in the meeting at Wuhan or Are you a mind reader? How do you know that Bekar Patel is not spilling his hate for Modi out on the net?] There was a time when AAkar used to be shrill against Modi but with so many mistakes made by government he can present facts as they come. This is clearly a show of weakness by India and whether there is a benefit to India for this weakness or this is a political benefit at expense of humiliating India internationally is unknown as the govt doesnt want to tell us what was the agenda. Some spins on this meeting are awful. [Assuming that by weakness/humiliation you mean Modi traveling to Whuhan for talks with the Chinese. Bhell that begs the question, Did the Chinese president traveling to Ahmedabad for meeting with Modi was a weakness/humiliation for China? Then there is the latest news of Xi traveling to Japan for a meeting. Will you also read that as a weakness/humiliation for China? What logic applies to India should also apply to China no.]

One spin is that Xi came to Wuhan to meet Modi - what in the world is that supposed to mean ? isnt Wuhan not in China ? if as head of household i meet another almost enemy like head of household in my kitchen because i like to cook instead of full honors in drawing room - would i expect a thanks for inviting him to kitchen ? [So you mean to say that Modi receiving Xi in Ahmedabad was an insult to Xi and not a honor? Again what applies to India also applies to China no]

Another fact that Modi invited Xi for an informal meeting in India and chinese rejected in diplomatese saying they will be in touch using "several communication channels " is another humiliation. This was spinned as "favourable response " in media. I was wondering what the heck is a "favourable response" instead of yes or no-response then i realized it was a brutal No couched in diplmatic language.

This is a terrible disappointment and reminds me of demon where modi took a secret decision and sprang a surprise on everyone. We all know how that went.

I remember you from the demon thread. That the demon hurt you then and is still hurting you, I can understand your spin in that context.

BTW, weren't you the one who once suggested once that foreign policy should be delegated to the individual states?

Pankaj sir, ignore the "periyarist lemurian" as Prof Vaidyanathan calls them.

[SSridhar]

This is a terrible disappointment and reminds me of demon where modi took a secret decision and sprang a surprise on everyone. We all know how that went.

kiranA, what has it got to do with this thread ? Don't attempt derailment. Take it as an informal warning.

[pankajs]

The latest China/Japan news is bery very interesting. I will attempt to connect the dots that I forgot to do in my last post.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
China meets with India and is planning to meet Japan soon to "try to mend fences". This latest bit of news on Japan opens up new speculative possibilities.

One can easily observe the following.
1. India and Japan are the flanks to China IF China is forced to take on America head-to-head.
2. India and Japan are the flanks to the American core in the quad. Australia is a distant tail.

With the above in mind, it might even be argued that China, in preparation of a coming confrontation with America on trade or otherwise, is trying to secure its flanks by "making peace/try to mend fences" with India/Japan in quick succession, even if this is a tactical move. Thus the Wuhan initiative seems to be driven more by China's fear/desire than India's.

[Rudradev]

We have always known that the US Deep State could not be trusted as an ally to form any kimd of Quad-Shod with. The Japanese have probably always known it too.

What is now becoming obvious (to both us & the Japanese) is that Donald Chump has belied utterly any expectations that he had sufficient vision, determination, or political skill to take on the US Deep State and change the paradigm of America's dealings with the world. He just does not have it in him to attempt this & succeed.

As I have always held, we are on our own... and quite honestly we should be grateful for that.

[pankajs]

Well .. well .... interesting. Adds weight to my last speculative post.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Intern ... orea-talks
Xi turns to Abe to keep a role in Korea talks
China courts US ally to make sure it is at table during peace process

TOKYO -- Japan and China will cooperate closely to ensure North Korea denuclearizes, their leaders agreed Friday, as Beijing searches for ways to stay involved in the peace process even as Washington moves in.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Chinese President Xi Jinping spoke for around 40 minutes in their first-ever telephone call. As "leaders responsible for regional peace and stability," the pair look to continue communicating on "a variety of topics," using the opportunity to "develop close ties," Abe said after the talk wrapped up. Xi said the call "is another sign of the recent, positive turn in Sino-Japanese relations."

[Karthik S]

The latest China/Japan news is bery very interesting. I will attempt to connect the dots that I forgot to do in my last post.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
China meets with India and is planning to meet Japan soon to "try to mend fences". This latest bit of news on Japan opens up new speculative possibilities.

One can easily observe the following.
1. India and Japan are the flanks to China IF China is forced to take on America head-to-head.
2. India and Japan are the flanks to the American core in the quad. Australia is a distant tail.

With the above in mind, it might even be argued that China, in preparation of a coming confrontation with America on trade or otherwise, is trying to secure its flanks by "making peace/try to mend fences" with India/Japan in quick succession, even if this is a tactical move. Thus the Wuhan initiative seems to be driven more by China's fear/desire than India's.

The day China realizes propping up pakis to check India is a futile step that doesn't help China in any way, the magnitude of distrust between our two countries will come down by large margin.

[SSridhar]

We have always known that the US Deep State could not be trusted . . .

The ASEAN realized that during Obama's last term, in spite of the Pivot, and felt more drawn towards India for that reason. Trump has only increased that assessment.