Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 24 Apr 2018 14:50

Forget 1962, India now better poised to deter the Dragon

NEW DELHI: The swift dragon can be held to a stalemate, even though it may be able to inflict some damage by breathing fire. India is militarily no longer the pushover it was during the 1962 war despite persisting critical operational and infrastructure gaps as well as the ever-expanding military asymmetry with China.

This is the assessment of top Indian military commanders, who contend they are being realistic without any false bravado, even as PM Narendra Modi heads for China later this week to reset ties and cool down tempers with the much larger neighbour.

“India does not want war. But if the push comes to shove, we are prepared. China has been forced to grudgingly accept that India is no pushover after repeatedly testing our resolve over the last few years, especially during the Doklam troop face-off last year,” said a senior official.

Some may dub this gung-ho approach foolhardy, given the People’s Liberation Army’s overwhelming superiority in terms of sheer military power. Apart from a huge nuclear missile arsenal that dwarfs India’s, China is also leagues ahead in conventional military power, be it submarines and fighters or tanks and artillery (see graphic). Moreover, backed by economic muscle, China adroitly combines this “hard power” with “smart power” in terms of cyber warfare and other disruptive capabilities.

But a walkover like 1962, it will not be. With Chinese military capabilities mainly geared towards preventing any intervention by the US and others in the Taiwan Strait and South China Sea, it all comes down to what the PLA can “actually throw” at India along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control stretching from Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh.

“The terrain does not give the PLA adequate space for maneuverability. And we have the capability to counter-attack,” said a senior Army officer. India has 15 infantry divisions (each with over 12,000 soldiers) tasked for its “northern borders” with China, apart from several artillery, missile, tank and air defence regiments and other reserves.

Moreover, the new 17 Mountain Strike Corps and associated units, with a total of 90,274 soldiers for “swift ground offensive capabilities”, will be fully raised by 2021-2022. “PLA, as an aggressor, would require a combat ratio of at least 6:1 for mountain warfare along the LAC. We have more than adequate numbers for dissuasive deterrence,” he added.

India holds most of the aces as far as the maritime domain is concerned. Indian warships can easily choke China’s sea lanes for its huge energy imports, especially through the Malacca Strait. “The PLA Navy may be much larger but in terms of operational expertise and experience in the Indian Ocean Region, they are far behind. The Chinese Navy is still learning to operate far away from its shores,” said a senior naval officer.

Similarly, even though China may have constructed 14 major airfields, advanced landing grounds and helipads on the Tibet Plateau, the IAF can conceivably outgun its numerically superior adversary. For one, the weapon and fuel-carrying capacity of Chinese fighters is limited due to the 9,000 to 10,000-feet altitude of their airbases.

“They will try to use their rocket forces to disrupt our airbases…That’s why during the just-concluded GaganShakti exercise, we war-gamed hitting China from widely dispersed locations. We also conducted maritime interdiction sorties in the Bay of Bengal,” said a senior IAF officer.

The overall aim is to build credible strategic deterrence to dissuade China from embarking on any misadventure. And, India is slowly but steadily getting there.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sum » 24 Apr 2018 15:16

Beautiful demonstartion(mostly taken from the Chinese playbook to give a tit-for-tat) of baring your fangs/iron fist and then put it back into the velvet glove just before a major talks event

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Singha » 24 Apr 2018 15:25

https://www.businessinsider.in/An-Austr ... 893539.cms

cheen trying to worm into vanuatu, some 1700 km east of australia.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 24 Apr 2018 15:44

Tx. Pete..It is very evident that the timing of the GS air exercises was not coincidental.Mr.Modi can now go to Beijing with the excellent results tucked in his belt if reminders at all are needed for the latter-day emperor XI to put it in his opium pipe and inhale it!

Nothing deters China more than mitary muscle.For all its bluff and bluster, the Chins are nothing but bullies, who use Intimidation and fear to make lesser states and mortals acquiesce to a Chin hegemony and overlordship of Asia. When they face hard cold steel, they back off.

The PM Has little need to feel intimidated at all, but a major note of warning.The quislings in our tribe are the .mice of the MEA, who are the biggest appeasers of China.. Nothing must be signed or agreed upon without our military chiefs involved.Their advice should be factored in as it will be they who will have to face the music of the Chin drumbeatadvice should the balloon go up.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 24 Apr 2018 15:47

https://www.news18.com/news/india/china ... 28071.html
China Fails to Get Indian Support for Belt and Road Ahead of Summit

Whether or not China will be able to win India round to the Belt and Road will likely be a key measure of the success of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's trip to China to meet Xi for an informal meeting on Friday and Saturday.

Reuters as usual with its own spin.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby RKumar » 24 Apr 2018 16:26

India must neither sign any agreement nor make a clear statement which supports China's aims. Let us also make vague statements or promises without implementing one bit of it. Give them the same taste of their own medicine.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 24 Apr 2018 17:42

Charm offensive? I always thought that civilization flowed out of China to the rest of the barbaric world.

Luo Zhaohui @China_Amb_India

Foreign Mnister Wang Yi and Smt. @SushmaSwaraj met Chinese musicians. The musical instrument Pipa (second left) originated from India. It is typical embodiment of musical exchanges between China and India 1500 years ago.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby GopiD » 24 Apr 2018 19:03

I think there is something very serious going on in India-China's relations. First hint was a china specialist being appointed as Foreign Secretary and he said the next 2 months are "very important" for India-China relations. Then, we have the foreign minister visiting China and Gagan Shakthi happened, which had a big China element to it. Now we have people talking about 2-front war and handling China http://idrw.org/after-mega-drill-iaf-hints-at-readiness-for-two-front-war/#more-168195

I think China was upto something big against us and we had to show what we could do if they crossed a line and now we have PM visiting China. I thought GOI toned down the anti-china speak a month back, but Gagan Shakthi just showed them what they needed to see. Can someone share some thoughts on what is really happening?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 24 Apr 2018 19:23

Here are the 3 counter to Chinis superiority in numbers.

Answer to question of "2.5 million of PLA"
“PLA, as an aggressor, would require a combat ratio of at least 6:1 for mountain warfare along the LAC. We have more than adequate numbers for dissuasive deterrence,” he added.

Answer to question of "2500 jets" and "hundreds of airbases" of PLAAF
Similarly, even though China may have constructed 14 major airfields, advanced landing grounds and helipads on the Tibet Plateau, the IAF can conceivably outgun its numerically superior adversary. For one, the weapon and fuel-carrying capacity of Chinese fighters is limited due to the 9,000 to 10,000-feet altitude of their airbases.

Answer to PLARF "shock & awe". About fear of Chini rockets overwhelming us
“They will try to use their rocket forces to disrupt our airbases…That’s why during the just-concluded GaganShakti exercise, we war-gamed hitting China from widely dispersed locations. We also conducted maritime interdiction sorties in the Bay of Bengal,” said a senior IAF officer.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby yensoy » 24 Apr 2018 20:19

GopiD wrote:I think there is something very serious going on in India-China's relations. ...
I think China was upto something big against us and we had to show what we could do if they crossed a line and now we have PM visiting China. I thought GOI toned down the anti-china speak a month back, but Gagan Shakthi just showed them what they needed to see. Can someone share some thoughts on what is really happening?


Continued engagement with incremental improvements in the trust deficit, that's the way I see it. Nothing magical is going to happen overnight. We are playing the same game as the Chinese now that we have people speaking and thinking Chinese at the MEA.

As for the "something big against us", that's highly unlikely - this is not the time for the Chinese to pick a fight with India. Fat boy Kim is doing his own thing and wants to chill with the Donald, uncle Xi had to make him fall in line. Any tiff with India will bring all other adversaries out of the woodwork and China could have a many front war on its hands not to speak of an entirely different geopolitical environment if they poison the atmosphere.

Xi wants OBOR more than anything else, at least that is what is the overt aim here. We have to speak the usual platitudes and get out. There is nothing in the Chinese model for us, except what can be purchased with our hard earned money.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kit » 25 Apr 2018 02:02

yensoy wrote:
GopiD wrote:I think there is something very serious going on in India-China's relations. ...
I think China was upto something big against us and we had to show what we could do if they crossed a line and now we have PM visiting China. I thought GOI toned down the anti-china speak a month back, but Gagan Shakthi just showed them what they needed to see. Can someone share some thoughts on what is really happening?


Continued engagement with incremental improvements in the trust deficit, that's the way I see it. Nothing magical is going to happen overnight. We are playing the same game as the Chinese now that we have people speaking and thinking Chinese at the MEA.

As for the "something big against us", that's highly unlikely - this is not the time for the Chinese to pick a fight with India. Fat boy Kim is doing his own thing and wants to chill with the Donald, uncle Xi had to make him fall in line. Any tiff with India will bring all other adversaries out of the woodwork and China could have a many front war on its hands not to speak of an entirely different geopolitical environment if they poison the atmosphere.

Xi wants OBOR more than anything else, at least that is what is the overt aim here. We have to speak the usual platitudes and get out. There is nothing in the Chinese model for us, except what can be purchased with our hard earned money.


hit the nail on the head. Their investments are welcome on our terms.Forget obore

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 25 Apr 2018 04:35

Apologies if this Article is already Posted earlier.

India strongly raises terrorism issue at SCO FMs' meet in China

BEIJING: In a veiled attack on Pakistan, India today said that terrorism is an enemy of the basic human rights and the fight against it should also identify States that "encourage, support and finance" the menace and "provide sanctuary" to terror groups.

External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj, during her address at the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation + (SCO) Council of Foreign Ministers meeting also attended by Pakistan Foreign Minister Khawaja Muhammad Asif, raised the issue of global terrorism and protectionism.

There are a number of challenges that are being faced by the world today, foremost being the threat of global terrorism and the imminent need to build a strong security architecture to combat it, the minister said.

"Terrorism is an enemy of the basic human rights: of life, peace and prosperity," Swaraj said.

The criminal terrorist militias are not impeded by borders as they seek to destroy the architecture of international stability and build walls of fear in societies that believe in pluralism, she said.

"We strongly believe that our fight against terrorism should not only seek to eliminate terrorists but should also identify and take strong measures against States that encourage, support and finance terrorism and provide sanctuary to terrorists and terror groups," Swaraj said without mentioning any country.

Maiming and killing innocent lives indiscriminately, constitutes the most blatant violation of human rights, she said.
"We have to work together to wipe-out this scourge from the face of the earth. In order to realise this objective, we must unite across our differences, strengthen our resolve and script an effective strategy against terror. We welcome the clarity shown by the SCO on terrorism from its inception.

"We should also urgently resolve to establish Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism that India proposed more than two decades ago in the United Nations. We are determined to consistently strengthen cooperation within the SCO framework for comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security," the minister said.

On trade and investment, Swaraj said that "protectionism in all its forms should be rejected and efforts should be made to discipline measures that constitute barriers to trade".

The meeting was also attended by foreign ministers Wang Yi of China, Kairat Abdrakhmanov of Kazakhstan, Abdyldaev Erlan Bekeshovich of Kyrgyzstan, Sergey Lavrov of Russia, Sirodjidin Muhridinovich Aslov of Tajikistan, Abdulaziz Khafizovich Kamilov of Uzbekistan, and Secretary General of the SCO Rashid Alimov among others.

Swaraj also raised the issue of reforms at the UN Security Council and said "it is clear to many of us that the Security Council is increasingly unable, or sometimes unwilling, to respond to the security challenges of our times, with tragic consequences.

For long India has been calling for the reform of the UN Security Council, the world body's top organ.

"We must not lose sight of the fact that reforms of the UN will be incomplete, without reforms in the Security Council to make it more representative of contemporary realities".

"Since 2008, the international community has carefully nurtured the ongoing Inter Governmental Negotiations at the UN to take our discussions on UNSC reforms forward," she said.

An overwhelming majority of members have expressed their desire to see these negotiations continue on the basis of a text, Swaraj said.

India is committed to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change and its Paris Agreement of 2015 on combating climate change. Addressing Climate Change and promoting secure, affordable and sustainable clean energy are India's shared priorities, she said.

Following the establishment of "International Solar Alliance" in December 2017, Prime Minister Narendra Modi hosted its Founding Conference in New Delhi in March 2018, during which the "Delhi Solar Agenda" was adopted, she said.

"We want connectivity to pave the way for cooperation and trust between our societies. For this, respect for sovereignty is essential. Inclusivity, transparency and sustainability are imperative. India has cooperated extensively with international community for enhanced connectivity.

"This is evident from our involvement with the International North-South Transport Corridor, the Chabahar Port Development, the Ashgabat Agreement, India-Myanmar-Thailand Highway Project and Bangladesh-Butan-India-Nepal Initiative among others," Swaraj said.

India has operationalised the air freight corridor between Kabul, Kandahar, New Delhi and Mumbai last year.

"I believe that peace and development in Afghanistan contributes to security and prosperity of the member states and the region as a whole. This can only be achieved through political dialogue and reconciliation in an atmosphere free from terror and violence, within the framework of Afghan Constitution.

"We must strongly support the active efforts of the Afghan Government to implement Afghan-led, Afghan-owned and Afghan-controlled inclusive peace and reconciliation process. India actively supports the activation of the SCO-Afghanistan Contact Group, the Moscow Consultation Format and other mechanisms of dialogue and cooperation for restoration of peace and development in Afghanistan," the minister added.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Iyersan » 25 Apr 2018 10:53

I heard that india Is joining along with Pakistan and china in the military exercises being held in Russia. Why are we running pussies now

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby GopiD » 25 Apr 2018 11:01

yensoy wrote:Continued engagement with incremental improvements in the trust deficit, that's the way I see it. Nothing magical is going to happen overnight. We are playing the same game as the Chinese now that we have people speaking and thinking Chinese at the MEA.

As for the "something big against us", that's highly unlikely - this is not the time for the Chinese to pick a fight with India. Fat boy Kim is doing his own thing and wants to chill with the Donald, uncle Xi had to make him fall in line. Any tiff with India will bring all other adversaries out of the woodwork and China could have a many front war on its hands not to speak of an entirely different geopolitical environment if they poison the atmosphere.

Xi wants OBOR more than anything else, at least that is what is the overt aim here. We have to speak the usual platitudes and get out. There is nothing in the Chinese model for us, except what can be purchased with our hard earned money.


Thanks for the reply Yensoy. The below report expresses the same doubts

http://idrw.org/five-reasons-why-prime-minister-modis-visit-to-china-is-unusual

This is not only unusual, but also a sign that Xi is a new kind of Chinese leader, one who is comfortable both in formal and informal situations, unlike his predecessors,” said an Indian analyst.


Two, there will no agreements signed between the two nations, nor will there be the customary joint statement or Press conference post the summit. “This kind of one-on-one is not often seen in other countries. Relevant information will be released in a detailed and timely manner…,” Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Kong Xuanyou told journalists


the two leaders will spend two days in Wuhan. “This is significant given that Mao had hosted US President Richard Nixon during his historic 1972 visit to China —brokered by Pakistan — at this villa. Not only was that the first US Presidential visit to the People’s Republic of China, it also cleared the air between the two nations which were not even talking to each other before that.”

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Iyersan » 25 Apr 2018 11:43

I have a wild theory. Is Modi gonna tell Xi that hey .. I will attack Pakistan and u need to turn your eye away and in return I will give u something

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Iyersan » 25 Apr 2018 11:44

Gopi u are right the protocol is unusual. Something MUST have gone off the charts

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 25 Apr 2018 12:02

Iyersan wrote:I heard that india Is joining along with Pakistan and china in the military exercises being held in Russia. Why are we running pussies now

1. Russia is exercising with Bakistan which was at the forefront of jeehard against the often lamented USSR, lamented by no less than Putin himself. Is Russia/Putin "running pussies"?
2. If you believe GOI on Doklam, China is exercising with a country that showed it up in-front of the world. Is Xi/China "running pussies"?

And what about our exercise with America, the foremost enabler of Bakistan for decades? Don't we proudly proclaim to all and sundry that we hold the maximum number of exercise with America? Weren't we "running pussies" in all such instances?

Question is why shouldn't we be "running pussies" as you put it when we are in such haloed company i.e. all souppawa.

PS: Just an observation. Not offering anyone any advice. Running pussies, tadpole, bangle wearer, etc are all emotional pitch. If one has to make an argument we should avoid using emotional pitch and stick to facts and logic.

Added Later: I don't mean to say that we should blindly follow souppawa on how they react in similar situation but we certainly should not react emotionally but weight the pros and cons and decide on the balance, based on facts and logic, in Indian interest.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 25 Apr 2018 13:50

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... yndication
China signals shift in stance on border row with India
'China will unroll the red carpet for Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Wuhan'.
China on Tuesday said the upcoming summit between President Xi Jinping and Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Wuhan was a trust-building exercise, which would gradually help resolve the border row, and enable the two countries to address major global problems jointly.
“This time, the two sides have decided to hold the informal summit between the two leaders. This is because both our countries attach great importance to each other on external strategy and not because of boundary question that still remains unresolved, and we need talk about it during the informal summit,” Chinese vice-foreign Minister Kong Xuanyou said in response to a question during a media briefing.
The Minister also spelt out a road map to settle “specific differences and sensitive issues,” which include the boundary question, following the Wuhan summit.
No to BRI
Meanwhile, India on Tuesday declined to endorse the China-led Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) at the foreign ministerial meeting of the eight nation Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), despite the impending Xi-Modi talks and thaw in Delhi-Beijing ties.
.....
Final resolution
Analysts say that China may be gradually shifting its position from “managing” and shelving the border issue, to a fledgling stance of resolving the China-India border dispute. Such a position would align well with Prime Minister Modi’s approach of seeking a final resolution of the boundary dispute.
An official source had earlier told The Hindu that, while a free flowing conversation without a pre-set agenda between the two principals at the Wuhan retreat was expected, Prime Minister Modi, in the past, has expressed particular interest in two broad themes: a final settlement of the India-China boundary, and collaboration between India and China for the fruitful emergence of an “Asian century”.
....
Gautam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 25 Apr 2018 13:54

https://thewire.in/diplomacy/what-to-ex ... ina-summit
Lifting the Veil on the Upcoming 'Informal' Wuhan India-China Summit
Sources say that the unusual timing of the Wuhan summit was due to the desire of both leaders to “devote” some more time to developing their personal relationship.
New Delhi: With no joint statements or agreements, the forthcoming “informal” summit between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping will not be “issue-based”, but rather broad-based to foster “strategic communication” at the highest political level.
This was stated by both Indian and Chinese sources on Tuesday, ahead of the summit that will take place on April 27 and 28 in the central Chinese city of Wuhan.
The announcement of the summit was made by the Indian and Chinese foreign ministers on Sunday. This would be third stand-alone meeting between Modi and Xi, after their joint sojourns in Ahmedabad and Xian in 2014 and 2015 respectively.
The reason this summit has been prefixed with the term ‘informal’ is to make it less protocol-heavy, Indian official sources said.
A formal summit usually involves talks across table, with the two leaders first reading out an opening statement after which issues are then picked up from the agenda. Typically, a joint declaration would already have been negotiated before the leaders meet and would be ready to be released to the media. The signing of pre-negotiated agreements also tend to be part of the complicated but predictable summit choreography.
The Wuhan meeting later this week will be different. “Both sides have agreed not to sign an agreement or release any joint document but reach important consensus to resolve outstanding issues,” said Chinese vice foreign minister Kong Xuanyou in Beijing on Tuesday.
In Delhi, the description about the forthcoming summit is similar, but with a slight nuance.
Noting that the format was still “in flux”, sources here said that there would be no deliverables in the form of either agreements, joint statements or press communiques.
Unlike earlier meetings where hot-button issues were flagged in advance by the Indian side, officials here are essentially signalling in advance that they do not expect any resolution of existing differences like Indian membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group or support for Indian efforts to get the UN to blacklist Pakistan-based terrorists. Anybody who knows China knows that its leadership does not discuss specific issues, sources here noted.
The “objective” is to have “strategic communication” at the highest level on the perspective that each leader has on both domestic, as well as, foreign policy issues. It is believed that discussions will be “informal, broad-based, overarching in content and will not be specific in terms of its topics”.
The Wuhan meeting stands in stark contrast to the Modi-Xi meeting in Tashkent in June 2016, when the Indian prime minister specifically sought the Chinese leader’s backing for Indian membership of the NSG.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby arun » 25 Apr 2018 15:20

X Posted.

Extract from External Affairs Minister's Address at SCO Council of Foreign Ministers, Beijing (April 24, 2018) dealing with cross border connectivity.

India points out to the Peoples Republic of China that it has no intention whatsoever of joining PRC controlled BRI / OBOR / CPEC by saying that for connectivity to succeed “respect for sovereignty is essential”. To pre-empt any self-servingly pious mealy-mouthed PRC comments designed to denigrate India while boosting the PRC, further points out India’s extensive track record of co-operating with other countries for enhanced connectivity by mentioning the various connectivity projects India is involved which interestingly consists of connectivity projects in which the PRC has not been allowed to dominate:

Excellencies,

Connectivity with SCO countries is India’s priority. We want connectivity to pave the way for cooperation and trust between our societies.

For this, respect for sovereignty is essential. Inclusivity, transparency and sustainability are imperative.India has cooperated extensively with international community for enhanced connectivity.

This is evident from our involvement with the

(i) International North-South Transport Corridor,
(ii) the Chabahar Port Development,
(iii) the Ashgabat Agreement,
(iv) India-Myanmar-Thailand Highway Project,
(v) Bangladesh-Butan-India-Nepal (BBIN) Initiative amongst others.

India has operationalized the air freight corridor between Kabul, Kandahar, New Delhi and Mumbai last year.

All these initiatives would further strengthen the entire spectrum of multi-modal networks in the SCO space.


From our Ministry Of External Affairs Website:

External Affairs Minister's Address at SCO Council of Foreign Ministers, Beijing (April 24, 2018)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sudhan » 25 Apr 2018 20:54

The Honorable External affairs minister and the Honorable Defence minister

Image

Smt. Sitharaman must be walking with a spring in her step, now that GS'18 managed to Shake the heavens, split the earth and brown many shalwars

:mrgreen:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 25 Apr 2018 20:56

Notice anything odd ... the only high powered ladies are from India.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sudhan » 25 Apr 2018 21:00

Also, I believe the tubby one (left pic) with the non-halal upper lip mounted fur.. is the new scapegoat ( i mean defence minister) of porkland..

Shame he is not as unhinged as Asif..

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 25 Apr 2018 21:39

https://www.firstpost.com/india/narendr ... 43433.html
Narendra Modi-Xi Jinping 'informal summit' equally important for both leaders given US' unpredictability
Prime Minister Narendra Modi is visiting Wuhan, the capital of China’s Hubei province, on 27 and 28 April to meet Chinese president Xi Jinping. This 'informal summit' between the two leaders assumes greater significance in the backdrop of recent tensions between India and China. The visit is also exceptional in the sense that Modi is scheduled to go to China again on 9 and 10 June this year to participate in the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) Summit in Qingdao. It is usually uncommon for Indian leaders to visit China twice in such close succession.
This will be Modi’s fourth visit to China since he became India’s prime minister and a second bilateral visit. His first bilateral visit to China took place in 2015, followed by a visit to Hangzhou for the G-20 Summit in 2016 and the BRICS Summit in Xiamen in 2017. However, increasing interaction is yet to translate into better cooperation.
.....
On the contrary, China attempted to test India's resolve through a series of intensely aggressive acts including the postponement of regular military exchanges, a refusal to share hydrological data on the Brahmaputra and unilateral construction activity at the Doka La border tri-junction between India, China and Bhutan. Of course, the most challenging was the Doka La military standoff that could only be resolved by the end of August, just before Modi's visit to Xiamen in China for the BRICS Summit. For obvious reasons, the Chinese leadership did not want the issue to vitiate the atmosphere of the BRICS Summit.
There was a realisation in New Delhi too that disagreements must not be allowed to erupt into open conflict. In the build-up to the upcoming informal summit, the two countries held several meetings across various platforms. In recent months, both have publicly expressed their desire to reduce tensions and improve relations. The process of India’s rapprochement with China gathered momentum in February when the Modi government unprecedentedly decided to downgrade its involvement in events to mark the 60th anniversary in exile of the Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama.
.....
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 25 Apr 2018 21:44

https://www.firstpost.com/india/tango-o ... 95735.html
Tango or not, India must remain steadfast with China; Beijing's call for 'friendship' could be another ploy
Two signals from China caused an eclectic change in India’s outlook towards China. In December 2017, China’s Special Representative Yang Jiechi delivered Chinese president Xi Jinping's message to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi that both countries should aspire to become "friends for generations" and "partners in rejuvenation".
...
India’s response was erratic, to say the least. A government memo asked leaders and government functionaries not to attend Tibetan diaspora events marking 60 years of Dalai Lama’s exile and thanking India for giving shelter to Tibetans. With External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj attending foreign ministers meet in China before the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation summit in Qingdao (June 2018), which will be attended by Modi, it's all the more reason to interpret Chinese signals cautiously. Besides, the fact that Tibetan prime minister Lobsang Sangay was invited for Modi’s swearing-in ceremony, wouldn't it have been prudent to quietly orchestrate postponing the 'thank you' event to the end 2018, giving time to observe the Chinese behaviour?
India also cancelled the annual Asian Security Conference by Institute of Defence Studies and Analysis (IDSA) citing “administrative reasons”, this year’s theme being "India and China in Asia: Making of a New Equilibrium". Whether or not there was fear of discussions that could displease Chinese participants, the cancellation does indicate undue appeasement; a sign of weakness.
...
But all said and done, don’t we understand that China is behind the increased belligerence of Pakistan, turning the Maldives and Nepal against India; Pakistan targeting Indian villagers to increase pressure on the Modi government; or the Pakistani prime minister rushing to Nepal to coordinate a joint China-Pakistan-Nepal pressure group against India, and the like. With absolute power, Xi is challenging the US on multiple fronts. Chinese protégé North Korea is testing nuclear reactors for making weapons-grade plutonium.
....
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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 26 Apr 2018 00:15

India, China to resume annual military exercise later this year

NEW DELHI: Suspended after the Doklam face-off, the bilateral military exercise of India and China is likely to resume this year, in sync with renewed efforts by both the countries to reset ties hit by a tense standoff between their troops, government sources said on Wednesday.

The exercise 'Hand-in-Hand' between the armies of the two countries will take place within next 4-5 months in China and an announcement is likely to be made very soon, sources told PTI.

It is learnt that the issue of resumption of the annual exercise had figured during talks between defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman and her Chinese counterpart General Wei Fenghe in Beijing yesterday.

Sitharaman was in Beijing to attend a meeting of defence ministers of SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation) countries.

Prime Narendra Modi is travelling to Chinese city of Wuhan on Friday on a two-day visit to hold an "informal summit" with Chinese President Xi Jinping, seen as an effort to build mutual trust between the two sides.

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Kong Xuanyou said the two leaders will try to reach important consensus to resolve outstanding issues and build mutual trust during their talks in Wuhan.

The government sources said both sides want to resume the military exercise as it will act as a confidence building measure between the two armies.

The annual exercise was to be hosted by China in 2017 but it did not take place due to the Doklam standoff. So far, both sides have participated in six editions of the exercise. India had hosted the exercise in 2016.

Troops of India and China were locked in a 73-day-long standoff in Doklam from June 16 last year after the Indian side stopped the building of a road in the disputed area by the Chinese army. The face off was "resolved" on August 28 last year.

The area in Doklam where China tried to construct a road is a disputed territory claimed by both China and Bhutan. India sent its troops to stop the Chinese construction activity, saying it could be a threat to its strategic interests in the region.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 26 Apr 2018 05:38

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 21850881-1
Modi-Xi summit not like 1988 Rajiv-Deng meeting
By Indrani Bagchi
NEW DELHI: The forthcoming Modi-Xi summit in Wuhan is not a “reset”. India and China are not rebooting their relations. The two are meeting at the summit level to discuss global developments and find a way for India and China to grow and develop as powers without getting into each other’s way. “In a rapidly changing world, both are trying to understand each other’s aspirations and concerns,” sources said.
China’s foreign minister Wang Yi said, “The leaders will conduct strategic communication on the great changes of the current world that have never been seen in the past hundred years, and exchange in-depth views on the overall, long-term and strategic issues regarding future development of bilateral relations.”
India is clear that this summit is not like the Rajiv Gandhi-Deng Xiaoping summit of 1988. That was a time when India and China actually reopened relations after a two-decade deep freeze and a face-off in Sumdurong Chu that could have become very ugly. India and China decided not to allow the border dispute to hold the rest of the relationship back. That was a real “reset”, said sources.The Modi-Xi summit will also be more unstructured than the Rajiv-Deng one which was protocol-heavy, every moment mapped out with care.
....
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 26 Apr 2018 06:02

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 913343.cms
India tepid to Chinese plan for economic corridor through the Himalayas
By Dipanjan Roy Chaudhury
India has given a tepid response to China’s proposal for constructing a trans-Himalayan economic corridor connecting the two countries and Nepal as the government is more keen on working bilaterally with Nepal on infrastructure and connectivity projects.
People familiar with the developments told ET that Delhi is likely to convey its view to both Beijing and Kathmandu soon.
During his visit to Kathmandu on May 11, Prime Minister Narendra Modi is expected to tell his Nepalese counterpart K P Sharma Oli that his government will continue to support development of Nepal through bilateral cooperation and not through any mechanism involving a third country.
Modi had hosted Oli in Delhi earlier this month. The visit saw Delhi promising to support construction of a rail-link between India and the capital of Nepal. India also agreed to support the landlocked country get access to the oceans through inland waterways.
The proposal for a trilateral economic corridor was mooted by Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi after a meeting with his Nepalese foreign minister Pradeep Gyawali in Beijing last Wednesday.
....
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Apr 2018 08:44

The more things change, the more they remain same. Seems like "nothing" is gonna happen inspite and despite of this meeting

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 26 Apr 2018 09:37

^^^^whats happening is that, the world is looking at India's behaviour, and the small countries who are thinking about India as their saviour in the onslaught of China, are drawing conclusions if they should depend on India or not. They are making calculation if India is ready for it's role as a genuine power which can act responsibly in world affairs or India is timid and not able to understand/ not able to resist the temptation of being vassal state to China and avoid confrontation with China. There's immense damage to India's image, and mainstream media in India is projecting China as superior to India and better India be a vassal state to China and accept the hegemony of China. If that means nothing is happening.... Well... Nothing is happening indeed.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 26 Apr 2018 09:47

Saying that India doesn't endorse CPEC by going all the way to China, and not asking China to STOP CPEC, is called masochism, atleast that is how the world reads India's behaviour.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 26 Apr 2018 09:49

https://scroll.in/article/876832/when-m ... f-weakness
When Modi meets China’s Xi in Wuhan, India starts from a position of weakness
Hopefully, the two sides have already negotiated an outcome. A truly unstructured event could blow up in New Delhi’s face.
So, India threw the Dalai Lama under the bus. Not my words, but those of a retired senior government official with years of experience of India’s China policy. He was commenting on a news report that appeared this week, which said that just before the Centre sent out a note to all government officials in February asking them not to participate in events commemorating the Tibetan spiritual leader’s 60 years of exile, India had already informed Beijing of its intended move.
Now we know why that happened. Prime Minister Narendra Modi wants to talk peace with Beijing. Why? The answer is obvious. In the run-up to general elections in 2019, the only thing that seems to matter to him is to make sure there are no unpleasant shocks for his government.
Among external actors, the one country that can spring an unpleasant surprise on India is China. After the Indians tom-tommed their great victory in Doklam – where Indian and Chinese troops faced off for around 70 days last year – the Chinese have been seething. And they have 4,056 km of the disputed Sino-Indian border across which they could spring that surprise.
So, Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale was sent to Beijing on February 23 to inform the Chinese that a) India would abjure from using the Tibet card as it had been doing for the past four years, and b) that it had no intention of intervening militarily in the Maldives, where China has interests.
Wuhan meeting
The reward, as it were, is the Wuhan summit between Modi and China’s President Xi Jinping that is to take place on April 27-April 28. We can only speculate about its outcome, but we do know that it is India that is going into it from a position of weakness. Hopefully, the two sides have already negotiated an outcome, because a truly unstructured event could blow up in our face.
.....
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby arun » 26 Apr 2018 10:23

X Posted from the OBOR thread, to the Indian Foreign Policy, SCO and Chinese Threat threads.

SCO Summit 2018: India not mentioned in portion of joint communique backing China's OBOR project

I hope our Ministry of External Affairs is aware and doing something about all of this. This is the first time I have come across where a Press Communique has purportedly been jointly issued, in some languages and not in another language, without unanimity of meeting participants over contents, in this case support for OBOR / BRI / CPEC.

The Peoples Republic of China is being sneaky about the Press Communique issued after the meeting of SCO Foreign Ministers.

The English language SCO websilink has no mention of the Press Communique issued after the meeting of SCO Foreign Ministers. Indeed the English language SCO weblink has no entry after April 17, 2018 and certainly none for April 24, 2018 when the alleged Press Communique of the meeting of SCO Foreign Ministers was purportedly released.
See here:

SCO English Website

On the other hand the PRC has snuck in mention of the Press Communique in the Russian language and Chinese language sections

The SCO Russian Language website (Click Here) does have an April 24, 2018 entry (Russian April 24 Click Here) translated excerpt of which follows:

2018/04/24

Information message on the meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers of the Member States of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization ……………………..

The Ministers of Foreign Affairs of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, confirming the support of China's One-Way, One-Way Initiative, spoke in favor of using the potential of the countries of the region, international organizations and multilateral associations in order to form a broad, open, mutually beneficial and equal partnership.


Likewise the SCO Russian Language website (Click Here) does have an April 24, 2018 entry (Chinese April 24 Click Here) translated excerpt of which follows:

2018 / 04 / 24

Press Communique of the Foreign Ministers' Council Meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization Member States

The foreign ministers of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan reiterated their support for the "Belt and Road Initiative" proposed by China. All parties support the use of the potential of the countries, international organizations and multilateral institutions in the region to establish a broad, open, mutually beneficial and equal partnership in the SCO region.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby schinnas » 26 Apr 2018 10:43

Gautam sir, Modi is too seasoned a leader to be so naive. Govt officials should be guessing as to his plans as Modi keeps cards close to his chest and only the foreign secretary, Doval, and CCS will be provided to his plans.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby PratikDas » 26 Apr 2018 10:51

TKiran wrote:Saying that India doesn't endorse CPEC by going all the way to China, and not asking China to STOP CPEC, is called masochism, atleast that is how the world reads India's behaviour.

Just curious - who made you ambassador to the world?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 26 Apr 2018 10:57

schinnas wrote:Gautam sir, Modi is too seasoned a leader to be so naive. Govt officials should be guessing as to his plans as Modi keeps cards close to his chest and only the foreign secretary, Doval, and CCS will be provided to his plans.

Sirji,
I am only quoting a newspaper that I feel that BRF readers may find interesting. Nowhere did I say that it was my opinion. As a matter of fact many do not reflect my thoughts. But they should be read none the less.
Gautam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 26 Apr 2018 11:00

People are worried about outcome when the objective is "No outcome". Couldn't be funnier!

From a very anti-current GOI/anti-Modi rag. Sarkar babu is tagged just for credit.
g.sarkar wrote:https://thewire.in/diplomacy/what-to-expect-from-the-informal-wuhan-india-china-summit
Lifting the Veil on the Upcoming 'Informal' Wuhan India-China Summit

The Wuhan meeting later this week will be different. “Both sides have agreed not to sign an agreement or release any joint document but reach important consensus to resolve outstanding issues,” said Chinese vice foreign minister Kong Xuanyou in Beijing on Tuesday. [Chinese view]

In Delhi, the description about the forthcoming summit is similar, but with a slight nuance.
Noting that the format was still “in flux”, sources here said that there would be no deliverables in the form of either agreements, joint statements or press communiques. [Indian view]

Couldn't have been clearer from both sides. But when foundation thought is "India is a pushover" it is not unexpected that some folks build an edifice that reflects that foundation.

Added later: It is reasonable to ask if the meeting is billed as "no outcome" what is the point? The point is stated in the above quoted part. I have already narrow the reading material down to a paragraph. People who want the answer should read/re-read till it becomes clear.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Prasad » 26 Apr 2018 11:52

Ugh. Why give links to liar and troll ?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 26 Apr 2018 16:01

Mohan Malik 马立克 实事求是
@jmohanmalik
Will Xi hoodwink Modi in the same way to expand China’s presence in the IO and the Himalayas to India’s detriment?
(link: http://ecoti.in/AvJv0Y) ecoti.in/AvJv0Y

Mohan Malik 马立克 实事求是
@jmohanmalik
The Sunnylands summit was a disaster for the US & the region. Xi played Obama, bought time to build the fake islands


How the upcoming Wuhan summit draws its inspiration from 'Sunnylands​ meet'
economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 26 Apr 2018 16:33

^^
That is exactly what I was saying vide my last post. Thank you for posting such a great example that illustrates my point.
pankajs wrote:Couldn't have been clearer from both sides. But when foundation thought is "India is a pushover" it is not unexpected that some folks build an edifice that reflects that foundation.

Lets say there are 2 groups of people. There can be more opinions but lets keep it simple.

G1. Believes China/Xi smarter than India/Modi and India/modi is a pushover.
G2. Believes India/Modi can go toe-to-toe with China/Xi and India/Modi is no pushover.

Now the meeting goes exactly as planned and at the end there is no output in terms of agreements, Joint statements, etc.

G1 will claim India/Modi where hoodwinked by China/Xi and returned empty handed or worse.
G2 will claim India/Modi went into the Lions den and returned unscathed and therefore bettered China/Xi.

Exactly the opposite conclusion with exactly the same data! That is why the starting assumption becomes soooooooooo important.

BTW, hope folks are observing very carefully. It allows one a clear peek into the speaker/writer/posters mindset. I always try to focus more on the mindset that would lead someone to make a particular statement than the statement itself. I take the statement as pointer that shines light on areas that are not stated at least not directly in words.

Thank you TKiran jee. You have been very helpful. Your contribution to this thread has been beyond compare.
Last edited by pankajs on 26 Apr 2018 16:39, edited 1 time in total.


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