Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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TKiran
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby TKiran » 27 Apr 2018 23:00

Karthik S wrote:Cheen dumping must stop! It really annoys when I see MIC products from small plastics to oppo ads everywhere. It's OK to import stuff that can't be made in India, but not cheap toys, plastics etc etc.

It's not OK to import stuff that can't be made in India from China.

Trade is a strategic weapon for China, not a means to make money.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 27 Apr 2018 23:14

g.sarkar wrote:
Peregrine wrote:It has come to my notice that the "Visa Service" in the Indian Consulates and Embassies-High Commissions is now "Contracted out" to various Private Organizations.
The Employes at these "Private" Visa Offices - Indian or Non-Indian - can be of any Nationality even if they are Pakistani-Americans or Pakistanis-Whatever.
I am not aware if these Private Services may not be the reason for these "Non-Desirable" Terrorist getting their Visas. I do not see what control the MEA Officials from the Indian Embassies - Consulates - High Commissions can have on these "Visa Services" and as such am unable to suggest a solution.
Cheers Image
g.sarkar wrote:Peregrineji,
While it is true that the visa service is contracted out, the actual visa is given by the consulate not the service firm. At least that was the case when I obtained my visa the last time. While this has added a service fee, the process is smooth and without restless crowds. I am sure filters to keep out pakis are still in existence.
Gautam
Gautam Sarkar Ji :

Sir Ji - Now this begs the Question "Who is responsible for the Indian Visa to David Headley?

Is the Answer : The Indian Consulate who issued the Visa.

Cheers Image

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 28 Apr 2018 00:21

Closest one can get to the GOI/Modi thinking

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... y-5153295/
Couple therapy [by Ram Madhav; Very Bad choice of the headline]

Modi-Xi meeting in Wuhan city is not centred on outcomes but on greater understanding of the other [This is what I meant when I had written "exchange thoughts/perceptions/views on various issues" in a post on the previous page]

Prime Narendra Minister Modi begins his two-day visit to Wuhan city in China today for a unique meeting with President Xi Jinping, described as an “informal meeting”. PM Modi is being accompanied by National Security Adviser Ajit Doval, Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale and a few other officials. It is expected that the two leaders would have informal interactions on one-on-one basis as well as with their aides when Modi is in Wuhan city.

The visit has naturally elicited enormous interest, not only in India but globally. Coming just two months before Modi’s long-scheduled visit to China for the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) Heads of State Summit in June, and projected as an informal, agenda-free deliberation, the meeting of Modi and Xi is being interpreted by experts in several ways. Some are optimistic while others are calling for caution. Some assume that the visit will resolve many longstanding and outstanding issues between the two countries, seen until now as intense adversaries, if not enemies, others are worried about the fallout of the meet on relations with other countries — especially, India’s with the US and China’s with Pakistan.

What most people miss out is the fact that we are living in a new era. The shape, stratum and subject of international relations have undergone major transformations. Madeleine Albright once commented that, “A lot of people think international relations is like a game of chess, where people sit quietly thinking out their strategy. It is not. It is more like a game of billiards, with a bunch of balls clustered together.” It is an apt description of the global politics in the 21st century.

The new century has brought with it a new world order with multiple centres of power. The unipolar world, dreamt of by political scientists like Francis Fukuyama after the collapse of the Soviet Union, has not become a reality. Instead a multi-polar world has emerged with the advent of the 21st century. Like in a billiards board, as mentioned by Albright, a hit with one ball will affect many balls today.

In this multi-polar world, several countries have emerged as important poles. India and China are two such pivots commanding critical balance in the new global multi-polar order. In a bipolar or a unipolar set up, only one or two countries will have major stakes in global affairs. But in a multi-polar world, stakes too will be held by many countries. In effect what we are experiencing today is a multi-polar world slowly getting accustomed to multi-stakeholder approaches.

This exciting journey of the international relations from biploarism to dreams of unipolarism and “end of history” to multi-polarism to multi-stakeholderism is what brings Modi and Xi together today. Not every meeting between the leaders of two countries need to be viewed through the prism of bilateralism alone. India and China are two big poles in the world today. Both have no doubt bilateral schisms to attend to, but both are playing much larger roles in the world today. Bilateral issues and domestic priorities are important. They will come up when the leaders meet. But it will be a mistake to assume that Wuhan is all about bilateral issues.

While the 20th century brought about a climax to market and military-centric global faultlines, cleverly camouflaged in capitalist and communist ideological idioms, the advent of the 21st century introduced new hotspots to the world. Political ideologies have given way to religious fundamentalisms while market and military remain the fulcrum of new politics. Trumpism has redefined power alliances with uncertainty as the method and unpredictability as the tactic. In a way, Sun Tzu appears to be more attractive to US President Donald Trump than Xi.

“The agony of international relations is the need to try to practise politics without the basic condition for political order,” lamented British political theorist Bernard Crick. Certain world powers seem to still believe that no political order is required for pursuing their politics, whether in Syria or in Afghanistan or in North Korea or in the South China Sea. All these new flashpoints have the potential to cause unrest in the region and beyond.

The 21st century is witnessing new power alliances and equations. Power blocs like the SCO are growing in strength and influence. On the other hand, multilateral institutions of World War-II vintage are losing sheen. Economy, ecology and energy are the new drivers of the world politics. In such a scenario, as stakeholders, major powers need to engage in consultations on a regular basis. It need not be about bilateral issues alone. Leaders of India and China have been doing that for sometime now. PM Modi occasionally consults or is consulted by other leaders like German Chancellor Angela Merkel. President Xi too engages in such informal consultations with Trump, Vladimir Putin and others.

Wuhan is more about that. The two important leaders, who have arrived, are engaging in such consultations for the first time. It augurs well for a multi-stakeholder political order. Will it affect the time-tested bilateral relations of the respective countries with others? I think no.

What are the achievables? What will be the outcome? Friends ask. This meeting is not “outcome-centric”, it is “understanding-centric”.

There are no deliverables as was stated quite clearly by the Indian side. Even this "understanding-centric" should not be misread as a deliverable in the line of "reached an understanding on border or trade or cpec or ...". This "understanding-centric" is just free and frank exchange of views on all matters of concern to both sides without commitment on any side to any action whatsoever.

But I can assure you some folks will still try to paint the meeting as a failure because Modi supposedly came back empty handed.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 28 Apr 2018 02:57

Peregrine wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:
Gautam Sarkar Ji :
Sir Ji - Now this begs the Question "Who is responsible for the Indian Visa to David Headley?
Is the Answer : The Indian Consulate who issued the Visa.
Cheers Image

Yes Sir. But ultimately it is the Indian Government who empowers the consulate, is responsible. How about the consul who signed on the Visa? He can not be held responsible if he acted under the policy that prevailed at that time. Most probably the policies originated from Videsh mantri. As a retired government servant, I can recall we were told always to follow the policy, however stupid. Otherwise, if something went wrong, you were to be blamed and then punished. If you followed the policy, no one could blame you, as you are required to do this.
Gautam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kiranA » 28 Apr 2018 03:17

disha wrote:
kiranA wrote:
If that were true xi would be flying down to Ahmedabad to meet modi. Not other way around.


Or Modi is giving a face saving exit to Xi.


Yea right. Xi lost face because he enjoys 50 billion USD trade surplus with India - too tiny. He also lost face because when India protested a road at doklam china responded by building helipads, airforce bases, and what not - not enough I suppose.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kiranA » 28 Apr 2018 03:36

disha wrote:
kiranA wrote:This meeting is really strange And clearly shows the policy confusion of Indian govt .


It is possible that you sir are confused since chaos reigns on your mind., a clearly enunciated policy of GOI looks confising.

Problem w/ your rhethoric is that it can be in equal measure applied either way.


Not sure what provoked you in to getting so personal and vindictive. No my "rhetoric" cannot be applied in equal measure either way. Its Modi who went there not Xi who came here. Chinese people are not invested in this that much - they got everything going their way with India. Their media too is not covering this with same intensity. It is Indian people who are confused with this. Even in this forum, if you are honest, you will admit most people are confused and puzzled with this meeting.

Indian govt has a duty to communicate its vast changes in policy and behaviour to China. I dont mind good relations with China i have already made posts on it. But it needs to be done in a consistent , open and transparent manner. Otherwise it gives credence to all kinds of theories. TKiran allegation that this meeting is primarily to favor Indian importers who finance BJP politically cannot be dismissed as Indian GoI itself does not bother taking people in to confidence.

Even opposition leader Rahul Gandhi seems to be in confusion. Modi needs to understand he holds PM position on a 5 year basis .

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby disha » 28 Apr 2018 06:40

KiranA'ji., First of all, I am not being personal and neither vindictive. I urge you to please think through it. If something appears confusing, is it because it really is confusing or is it because the confusion is in our mind? And that is what I was trying to point out.

Indian govt. has a no duty to communicate its vast changes in policy and behaviour to China or any other nations., since the very act of communication to the masses will lead to nations developing counter policy and strategies and behaviours that will be inimical to Indian goals.

Detractors will give credence to everything, even floating CTs like "favor indian importers who finance BJP politically". It is upto you to look at the outcomes over a period of time and decide if there is value to the CT or not. Currently there is nothing that gives credence to the CT unless one buys into it already and tries to twist every outcome to that CT.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby disha » 28 Apr 2018 06:52

Here is how Eleven Pingping lost face:

1. As part of grand rising of the red emporer eleven, the wannabe emperor wanted to show who is the boss in the neighbourhood. But Doklam resulted in just dhoklas for the wannabe emperor and it was noticed.

2. The PM of Nepal visited India first.

3. The PLAN ended up finding that the IN has taken snapshots of their behinds and gloriously tweeted it to the world, when they were trying to go poop in the IOR region in support of the maldivians.

4. The maldivians cannot even get rid of the helicopter which is "gifted" to the Maldives (https://swarajyamag.com/insta/india-calls-maldives-bluff-on-demand-to-deploy-aircraft)

5. N. Korea and S. Korea are doing jumma-chumma publicly. In fact there is talk of de-nukularization and even korean unification! Imagine korean unification and a democratic, free and capitalist korea right alongside China., and with a red eleven emperor.

6. Vietnam and China are on a statistical trade war! It is hilarious to see China manipulating data to nudge Vietnam into its orbit :rotfl: (https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/china-vietnam-uncertain-export-statistics-by-le-hong-hiep-2018-04)

So in all this, if eleven reaches out to India, why not? The suggestion to eleven to reach out to India might have been provided by India itself - like "please invite us for dil-se talks and we will make sure that we will not refuse". This gives an excellent face-saving to China, since Modi is going there. GoI has nothing to lose. Optics be damned, if the antagonism can be laid to rest for a few years, both can concentrate on their economies.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby disha » 28 Apr 2018 06:54

BTW, in all major radio stations - after korea, the next topic was India-China (Modi-Xi) summit. Equal-equal onleee.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 28 Apr 2018 08:17

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7294&start=1680#p2268182
pankajs wrote:https://sputniknews.com/military/201804201063756549-india-adds-airfields-near-china-border/
India to Add Seven More Advanced Airfields Near Border With China

Notwithstanding China’s objection to the Indian stance on Arunachal Pradesh (recognized as South Tibet by China), Defense Minister Nirmala Sitharaman announced on Thursday that an additional seven advanced landing grounds will be built in the region.

Exactly as it should be in the context of her China vizit.

Saam, Daam, Danda and bheda should all be pursued in parallel. Why should work to shore up our border defenses stop just because of a meeting in China?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 946384.cms
While PM Modi and Xi catch up, govt moves on 96 new border posts
NEW DELHI: Segregating its attempts to have friendly relations with China from the security strategy, the Narendra Modi government will build a whopping 96 more Indo-Tibet Border Police (ITBP) border outposts (BoPs) along the 3,488 km long India-China border.

Having 96 more BoPs will reduce the inter-BoP distance on this icy frontier which will enhance the operational capabilities of jawans and will prove to be a deterrent to frequent Chinese transgressions and incursions into Indian territory.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 28 Apr 2018 09:42

TKiran wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Cheen dumping must stop! It really annoys when I see MIC products from small plastics to oppo ads everywhere. It's OK to import stuff that can't be made in India, but not cheap toys, plastics etc etc.

It's not OK to import stuff that can't be made in India from China.

Trade is a strategic weapon for China, not a means to make money.

The only way to read the highlighted sentence is that there should be NO trade between China and India.

Classic "Fight or Flight" response. A Flight response is in evidence here.

Added Later: This "Fight or Flight" is a *response*. What is the emotion that triggers this kind of a response?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 28 Apr 2018 15:29

CNN is covering the summit with another article:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/asia/mod ... index.html
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi meets Chinese President Xi Jinping for informal summit
By Manveena Suri and Ben Westcott, CNN
Updated 10:24 PM ET, Fri April 27, 2018
New Delhi (CNN)Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi met with Chinese President Xi Jinping Friday at the beginning of his informal two-day relation-building summit in the central Chinese city of Wuhan.
The meeting, widely interpreted as an attempt to reset relations and rebuild trust, follows an extended period of diplomatic estrangement between the two neighboring nuclear powers.
Though officials from both sides have stressed that the meeting has no stated goals or set agenda, an op-ed published Thursday in the state-owned China Daily suggested the two leaders would focus on a number of key issues, specifically global governance and shared international challenges.
"The common interests of China and India far outweigh their differences ... Of course Xi and Modi will also address each other's concerns, but they are not likely to indulge in strategic distrust and geopolitical competition," the opinion piece said.
The summit comes after the two countries were involved in a tense 72-day military standoff last summer over the disputed border region of the India-China-Bhutan "trijunction."
On Friday afternoon, Modi and Xi had a one-on-one meeting before touring the Hubei Provincial Museum in Wuhan, home to some of China's oldest cultural relics.
Images posted by Indian Ministry of External Affairs Raveesh Kumar on social media showed Modi being welcomed to the museum with an elaborate Chinese cultural performance. "India and China's cultural connect goes back many centuries," Kumar said on his official Twitter feed.
Other pictures showed Xi accompanying Modi throughout the exhibition as the Indian leader played musical instruments and viewed the displays.
....
Gautam

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 28 Apr 2018 17:17

China, India should be 'good neighbours, good friends': Xi Jinping after informal summit with PM Modi

WUHAN: President Xi Jinping said China and India are the "backbone" of the world's multipolarisation and economic globalisation, and the two countries should jointly make positive contributions to the global peace and development.

Xi, who hosted an unprecedented two-day "informal summit" with visiting Prime Minister Narendra Modi in the central Chinese city of Wuhan, said that China and India are both important engines of the world economic growth.

"As the two largest developing countries and emerging-market economies with a population level of more than one billion, China and India are the backbone of the world's multipolarisation and economic globalisation," he said.

A good China-India relationship is an important positive factor in maintaining world stability and is of great significance to the promotion of the development of all mankind, Xi was quoted as saying by China's state-run Xinhua news agency.

Socialism with Chinese characteristics has entered a new era and Modi also proposed the goal of building a "New India", he said, adding that on the road to development and revitalisation, China and India face similar tasks.

"We must firmly focus on development, deepen mutually beneficial cooperation, and jointly realise national rejuvenation to jointly create a stable, prosperous and prosperous 21st century in Asia and jointly make positive contributions to the world peace and development," Xi said.

His statement assumes significance amid moves by the west, particularly the US, to take protectionist measures that have hit countries like China and India.

China and India should be good neighbours and good friends. They should regard each other as an "active factor" in the change of world power and be used as a partner to realise their dream of development, Xi said.

The development of China and India is the "trend of the times" and an important opportunity for each other and both China and India should pursue an independent foreign policy, he said.

"We must adopt a positive, open and inclusive attitude and correctly analyse and view each other's intentions," Xi said.

"China and India have many similar ideas in international affairs. When dealing with relations between major powers, China insists on strategic autonomy, insists on not conflict and confrontation, and building a new type of international relationship that is based on mutual respect, fairness and justice, and win-win cooperation.

"This is in line with the five principles of peaceful coexistence (Panchsheel) jointly advocated by China and India in the 1950s," the Chinese President said.

The talks between Modi and Xi focussed on diverse areas of India-China cooperation.

The 'heart-to-heart' summit between Modi and Xi is being seen as an effort by India and China to rebuild trust and improve ties that were hit by the 73-day-long Doklam standoff last year.

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 28 Apr 2018 20:01

OBOR, Chinese Strategy and Implications & Analyzing CPEC Threads

China will not push India on BRI: Vice foreign minister

WUHAN: China on Saturday said there is no fundamental difference with India on the issue of "inter-connectivity" and Beijing will "not be too hard" with New Delhi on the issue of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

The BRI, a multi-billion-dollar initiative launched by President Xi Jinping when he came to power in 2013, has become a major sticking point in the bilateral ties. The BRI also includes the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) which India opposes as it goes through Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

At the end of the two-day informal summit between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Xi in the central Chinese city, Chinese vice foreign minister Kong Xuanyou said, "We feel that there is no fundamental difference between China and India on the issue of supporting inter-connectivity."

"The Indian side does not exclude this cooperation. It is also continuing to advance on interconnection. India is also a founding member of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB). It is the second largest shareholder of our region," Kong said.

"As for whether India accepts the expression Belt and Road, I think it is not important and China will not be too hard on it," he said.

India had boycotted last year's Belt and Road Forum organised by China.

The BRI, a pet initiative of President Xi, is aimed at promoting network of roads, ports and rail networks all over the world to spread China's influence.

Kong said both China and India seek a fair settlement of their border dispute.

The two countries will also enhance military and security communication mechanisms, Kong said, referring to the India-China boundary issue.

Leaders of the two countries believe that China and India are friends and the development of China-India relations is trend of the times, he said.

Regarding the bilateral cooperation, the two sides agreed to sort out the existing mechanisms between the two countries to make communication between the them more effective, start bilateral negotiations as soon as possible, further expand bilateral trade, promote cultural cooperation and exchanges between the two countries as a whole, seeking fair and reasonable solution of border issues, he added.

To a question on Tibet, Kong said "the position of the Indian government is that Tibet is an inalienable part of China. This has not changed. In the process of promoting mutual political development, it is also an important political consensus reached by both sides."

He said there was no disagreement between the two leaders at the meeting. "The two sides can handle these issues on the consensus reached," he said.

China and India are both major global powers in this region. In the process of contact between the leaders of the two countries, it is inevitable to talk about the relationship between the two countries, and it is also a question that will inevitably be touched upon, Kong said.

To another question, he said both China and India pursue the idea of sharing and building a global governance.

"China-India relations are not targeted at third parties. They will never engage in obsolete and out-of-date zero-sum games. They will not engage in closed and exclusive circles," he said.

"Sino-Indian relations will not be affected by other factors, either China or India. Both are major powers with great influence. Positive communication among great powers has injected positive factors into regional and world peace and stability," he said.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 28 Apr 2018 23:22

http://time.com/5256429/china-india-modi-xi-meeting/
What the Modi-Xi Meeting Tells Us About China and India
It’s been a busy week for geopolitical meetings. While Western leaders convened in Washington and Korean leaders got together in the demilitarized zone, India’s Narendra Modi headed to the Wuhan province in China to talk with President Xi Jinping for a two-day informal summit beginning Friday. It’s a meeting worth watching: As a new world order takes shape, these two countries go from peripheral players to central drivers.
In 2000, China accounted for just 3.6 percent of the global economy; today it’s responsible for nearly 15 percent of the world’s economic output, and by 2032 it’s poised to surpass the U.S. to claim the world’s top spot. It’s done so by harnessing the power of state-capitalism, intertwining its political power with its financial clout at a scale never seen in the global free market.
India is still in the beginning stages of its economic ascent, but it’s unmistakably underway—over the next four years, the IMF projects the Indian economy will grow on average by nearly 8 percent annually. Modi has overseen a remarkable crackdown in corruption and bureaucracy in the world’s largest free-market democracy by population (1.32 billion people). He is also presiding over a much-needed modernization of the country’s infrastructure, and is shoring up its finances through an ambitious new goods and services tax. By 2027, India is expected to be the world’s third-largest economy behind only the US and China.
....
Given today’s chaotic politics and the disruptive tech headwinds looming, the Chinese political model has never been more appealing. But that system comes at a cost—namely a growing surveillance state, spanning from a national video network of 176 million cameras nationwide (with a plan to install 250+ million more by 2020) to a “social credit system” that aggregates aspects of person’s history—from cheating on school exams to missing alimony payments to visiting “problematic” websites—into a composite score to assess a person’s trustworthiness. That in turn could determine what kind of doctors you can see, what dating websites you can join, or where you’re allowed to travel.
...
Which leads us to this week’s “informal” summit, one with no set agenda. That’s by design—the goal of this meeting is to help Xi and Modi keep things cordial between the two growing economic powers. And there have been more than enough flashpoints in recent months to make a meeting like this necessary: in the Maldives, in Sri Lanka, even in sleepy Bhutan. But maybe the most contentious issue has been Beijing’s pursuit of a $50 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor as part of its ambitious One Belt One Road (OBOR) plan intended to tie the economic fortunes of 70+ countries to Beijing through infrastructure investments; part of that corridor runs through contested-Kashmir. Beijing even wants India to sign up for OBOR as well, but India pointedly refused again just days ahead of the meeting. The reality is that China today has supplanted Pakistan as India’s chief rival in Asia—but neither sees great value in escalating tensions further. That starts with the meeting this week.
Gautam

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 29 Apr 2018 00:54

Modi-Xi's informal summit ends: Key takeaways

China and India are important engines of world economic growth

President Xi Jinping said China and India are the "backbone" of the world's multipolarisation and economic globalisation, and the two countries should jointly make positive contributions to the global peace and development.

"As the two largest developing countries and emerging-market economies with a population level of more than one billion, China and India are the backbone of the world's multipolarisation and economic globalisation," he said.

"China and India have many similar ideas in international affairs. When dealing with relations between major powers, China insists on strategic autonomy, insists on not conflict and confrontation, and building a new type of international relationship that is based on mutual respect, fairness and justice, and win-win cooperation.

"This is in line with the five principles of peaceful coexistence (Panchsheel) jointly advocated by China and India in the 1950s," the Chinese President said.

Reducing border tensions

In light of the tense face-off between Indian and Chinese troops at Doklam last year, Modi and Xi underlined the importance of "maintaining peace and tranquility in the border region". To this effect, they will issue strategic guidance to their respective militaries to strengthen communication in order to build trust and mutual understanding. The two sides will also work together in implementing confidence building measures.

Need for greater cooperation

As the West, led by the US, becomes increasingly inward-looking, emerging superpowers India and China must step up and assume a more significant role in the world order. As such, stable and balanced relations between the two neighbours is vital and recognising this, Modi and Xi decided to strengthen the Closer Development Partnership in a mutually beneficial and sustainable manner. This will be conducive for the development and prosperity of the people as well as the region.

During the course of the summit, the two leaders also agreed to undertake a joint economic project in Afghanistan, a first of its kind by India and China in the war-ravaged country.

More dialogue to pre-empt conflict

It is in the long term interests of India and China to create a broad platform of dialogue and discussion through which contentious matters can be addressed and resolved before they escalate. The two leaders agreed that both sides have the maturity and wisdom to handle differences through peaceful discussion.

Both China and India said they seek a fair settlement to their border disputes, and to this end, the Special Representatives appointed by the two nations will play a key role.

Balancing skewed trade

The two leaders agreed to push forward bilateral trade and investment in a balanced and sustainable manner by taking advantage of complementarities between their two economies.

They reiterated the importance of building an open and pluralist global economic order in which all countries can freely participate to pursue their development, while also contributing to the elimination of poverty and inequality in all regions of the world.

Crackdown on terror

Modi and Xi recognised the common threat posed by terrorism and committed to cooperate further on counter-terrorism.

However, when foreign secretary Vijay Gokhale was asked at a press conference whether the issue of Jaish-e-Mohammed chief Masood Azhar was raised, he said the two leaders "did not go into specifics".

China has repeatedly blocked India's bid to designate Azhar as a global terrorist by the UN.
Informal summit a success, more on the cards

Informal summit a success, more on the cards

The two leaders highly assessed the opportunity for direct, free and candid exchange of views offered by the Informal Summit and agreed on the utility of holding more such dialogues in the future. The "forward-looking dialogue" was a unique opportunity for direct and candid exchange of views between the two premiers and helped them forge a common understanding. Both agreed that meetings on the lines of the Wuhan summit will determine the future direction of India-China relations. Before leaving, PM Modi reciprocated by inviting Xi to India for a similar informal summit next year.

Xi wants screening of more Bollywood movies in China

Briefing reporters at the end of the two-day informal summit between PM Modi and President Xi in the central Chinese city, foreign secretary Vijay Gokhale said they proposed collaboration in the areas of spirituality, trade, technology, tradition and entertainment including films.

"President Xi said that he had seen a number of Indian films, both Bollywood and regional, and that it would be a good idea that more Indian films come to China and more Chinese films go to India," Gokhale said.

China will "not be too hard" with India on the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI)

China today said there is no fundamental difference with India on the issue of "inter-connectivity" and Beijing will "not be too hard" with New Delhi on the issue of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

"We feel that there is no fundamental difference between China and India on the issue of supporting inter-connectivity. As for whether India accepts the expression Belt and Road, I think it is not important and China will not be too hard on it," Chinese vice foreign minister Kong Xuanyou said.

The BRI, a multi-billion-dollar initiative launched by President Xi Jinping when he came to power in 2013, has become a major sticking point in the bilateral ties. The BRI also includes the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) which India opposes as it goes through Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. India had boycotted last year's Belt and Road Forum organised by China.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Apr 2018 01:52

^^
A pessimist's view point on the modi-xi meet will be
1. Reducing border tensions: their intention will certainly be to rein Indian army on border through political channels
2. Balancing Trade: China using indian expertise to crack into the services industry
3. I have suspicion xina will try to influence bhaiwood the way pak-pasand lobby has done. They know that it is available to highest seller. Anyways B'wood movies are making huge money there. Secret superstar, Dangal and Bajarangi Bhai jan have been hits. Many of my chinese colleagues say these are being recommended to them by their family in china. Chinese understand the understand the importance of soft power (or their lack of it) . They will certainly try to use people like mahesh bhatt and amir khan to make pro china anti us etc movies to sneak it into the minds of indians and those who watch b'wood movies, which includes people in UK, Middle east adn APAC
4. BRI: We will not be hard on you, even though it passes through your territory.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 29 Apr 2018 04:03

ArjunPandit, Fair and balance post the neutral and optimist view point also.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Apr 2018 06:19

Changing turban from a Sikh warrior in prev post to my Rajasthani Rajput
Positives, for India of course, could be
1. Both leaders get to kick the can down the road. The fall out of war could be detrimental to both the nation. For India, Modi may lose the power, BJP still may lose narrative even after holding ground or recovering. China it may lead to xi being ousted or worst CPC system collapsing, I assuming that a long war is not on the cards. Both nations have a lot to lose on in the most likely outcome, a stalemate.

2. China does not get anything from India but India does get the Chinese attention in two ways: 1. a personal welcome for Modi, xi knows it matters to Modi and India and the continuation of a unique meeting format. I have to give it to Chinese to show flexibility for Modi's style of unique and warm diplomacy. They have not got anything on BRI/OBOR. Those ways, China dehypenated us from their iron brother. Abbasi was received by a CPC member (not sure he's senior in CPCC). In terms of deliverables, it does not change anything on the ground, but that was not the objective either.

3. Most importantly, India retains it's foreign policy independence. In the end, US is no saint. They have a penchant for fomenting trouble (like the Brits of past) away from their borders. A fight between India and China the real winner will be the US. They get to sell weapons to India, sanctions on China and weaken their opponent by not fighting. Real (F)art of war. If India wins they gain If India loses they still gain, by knowing the strengths/weaknesses of China. They still get to sell more weapons to India. That ways India gets the flexibility to play the role of Russia in case of a war, stay silent till the time we are not attacked or even cut a deal and renege the deal later on.

4. B'wood movies can be a great connector. Most Chinese know India from the movies and relate more to Indian movies than the Hollywood ones. But what do we know about Chinese people and culture? Avg Indian knows only 2 things about China, cheap Chinese mal or awestruck from the stories of 12 pass businessmen who went for business there and tell stories after stories about the great strides China has made (which are not false as well). Even my knowledge of China, Chinese people are based on few books I read, and 5 Chinese I know very well, In the end, I am yet to come across anyone, except Chola of course, who says India should mount a war. Russian people and even old Chinese people also remember Raj Kapoor. Chinese people simply don't care about India. They are obsessed with the US. Maybe movies can make them think like, "we are the same people, same values same problems. No need for us to fight.". Movies can also make them realize that India is not a place where everyone shits outside homes in open fields and also aware that Chinese takeout toilet paper and soap just like us.

5. China may give in to things like Mashoon Azhar. NSG I still think is a long shot, but had that been the case, it would have been announced or talked about.

6. In the end, the two civilizations will have to carve out their spheres of influence without coming at blows near their home and directly. This meeting may have a roadmap to that.

00. Here's my CT, this Indian leadership may be looking at a post-Pakistan subcontinent. Whether one likes it or not, that is not possible without Chinese support, tacit of course. There would be a lot of diplomatic maneuvering required for this and lot of giving and present an opportunity for the entire sub-continent map to be drawn. We get peace for our economic engines (western and northern India), reduced military expenditures over long-term and possibly cohesive development of the subcontinent. We will have to be ready something to give to Chinese, who have invested a lot over there. If not anything respects their investments in CPEC in past Pakistan nations and possibly a cpec connection to India. or my preference would be to have some give and take on the eastern border. Stabilization on our eastern border will make China also focus on the US. An active Indian border will be China's real nightmare. Invest a lot more in the military than they do now, especially in a terrain very hostile to them. The problem will become more when they will be needled in all their global investments esp in Pakistan and Africa by CIA due to their past connections and widespread poverty. They can needle Vietnam, Philippines. But an active border is their second biggest nightmare, the first one remains a hostile Japan tagged with the quad. Indian leadership would be looking for this in the 2022-23 horizon to gain a second term, esp after all major military rearmament programs like Tejas, artillery, rafale, nag would be stabilized and going at full throttle may not be that infeasible. One may counter this theory on the fact that China may not want this, because in any case, India gets to focus fully on eastern border in that case (But that should not stop me from dreaming: Freedom of Dreaming). If that happens, I a teetotaller has promised everyone that I will drink a bourbon any expensive alcohol after offering to my kul devta- Bhairav ji

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby arun » 29 Apr 2018 08:09

Lt. Gen.Prakash Katoch (Retd.) writing in First Post.

Lest it be forgotten the Peoples Republic of China is in illegal occupation of lots of Indian territory and also illegally claims a lot of Indian territory:

The baggage of history is not about actual conflict but of Chinese intentions. China is in illegal occupation of 1,16,351 sq km of Indian territory; 37,555 sq km Aksai Chin, 5,180 sq km, 645 sq km captured trough salami-slicing, and 72,971 sq km Gilgit-Baltistan illegally leased by Pakistan for 50 years. These 1,16,351 sq km do not include another 93,374 sq km Indian territory that China claims in the western, central and eastern sectors along the LAC, including 90,000 sq km of entire Arunachal Pradesh. And there is no proof China’s territorial hunger is satisfied yet, given the sudden claim to entire Arunachal Pradesh in 2005 from earlier claim limited to Tawang Plateau. The India-China redux will remain cosmetic till territorial issues are resolved; keeping them aside amounting to tactical pauses – nothing more.


From First Post:

Narendra Modi-Xi Jinping meet: Discussions don't mean much unless China aligns its actions with words

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Prem » 29 Apr 2018 09:52



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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 29 Apr 2018 16:32

Despite Modi-Xi bonhomie, India still finds it tough to enter the Chinese bazaar

It was dubbed a heart-to-heart summit. As Prime Minister Narendra Modi informally met Chinese President Xi Jinping in the city of Wuhan on April 27 and 28, there was a sense of hope and enthusiasm. In the past two days, Xi took Modi on a museum tour, a walk around a lake and a boat ride. Xi told journalists that he was very happy to meet the Indian PM, adding: “Spring is a good time to meet.” Hindi Chini bhai-bhai seems to be back in the air.

No joint statement was issued, though, after the unusual bonhomie of the two Asian leaders, who represent nations housing 35% of the world population and contributing approximately 20% of the global gross domestic product (GDP). Yes, the Wuhan talks have helped thaw tensions arising out of a 73-day bitter stand-off over Doklam last year, though it’s not clear whether it will have a lasting impact on the 4,000-km border. Nor is it clear if the talks will solve an issue Indian exporters have been facing for long: trying to get a toehold in the Chinese market.

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Even as the bonhomie was in full display at Wuhan, ET Magazine’s interaction with at least a dozen stakeholders — exporters to China, trade experts, trade officials and strategic experts — showed that China places artificial barriers to keep Indian exports in check, while dumping more and more of its products here. Take the case of film capacitor maker Deki Electronics Ltd, which imports one of its inputs, a type of metal wire, from China. The material is shipped from Shanghai at a reasonable cost of about Rs 4 a kg, and the delivery of the raw material is always on time. But Noida based Deki still has a problem. It has not been able to get a toehold in the promising Chinese market. What makes it strange is that there are no legal or tariff barriers stopping Deki. “The customs in China always ensures that our goods can’t enter their market. They al ways bring up a number of reasons to discourage items produced there.
When we play football, we follow international rules. When the Chinese play football, they craft their own rules,” says Vinod Sharma, managing director of Deki Electronics.

Let’s take a look at the India-China trade numbers. The merchandise trade between India and China is $71.45 billion (2016-17).

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Some anticipate the volume to touch $100 billion in the next couple of years. But New Delhi is worried, and rightly so. India’s merchandise trade deficit with China was at an alarming $51 billion in 2016-17. While India’s import from China has gone up, the export number has not. New Delhi imported Chinese goods valued at $61.28 billion in 2016-17, against $10.8 billion in 2005-06. But exports to Beijing, at $10.17 billion, has only marginally increased from $6.7 billion in 2005-06. What is odd is that India had a trade surplus with China during 2003-05. It needs to be acknowledged that China has during the past decade made huge technological strides, shedding its earlier tag of a low-cost bulk manufacturer. But what worries India is that China strategically avoids imports of goods from India, while getting the same goods from other nations. The list includes rice, buffalo meat, medicine containing insulin, flat-rolled products in coils and aluminium alloys.

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There have been instances of Chinese inspectors visiting an Indian export house for quality checks. Many such exercises have yielded no results, even if there have been no quality issues with the Indian products. What frustrates Indian exporters more is that the inspectors say neither “yes” nor “no”. “It’s very difficult to get the Chinese CCC (China Compulsory Certification, required for all products imported, sold or used in the Chinese market). There is no guarantee that an Indian firm can obtain the certificate easily,” says an exporter, requesting anonymity. Beijing’s trade ties have largely run parallel to its strategic priorities. Looking through that prism, while China has been openly aggressive about border issues with India, its aggression in trade is meticulously crafted. Trade tensions have not come out in the open, though it has used its trade muscle to force nations to toe its diplomatic line.

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This can be illustrated by using what is called the Dalai Lama effect, based on a 2010 report prepared by Germany’s University of Gottingen called Paying a Visit: The Dalai Lama Effect on International Trade. In 2002-2008, meetings between a head of state or head of government and the Dalai Lama led to a reduction of exports to China by 16.9%. The Tibetan spiritual leader is not the only person who has made Beijing flex its muscle. In 2012, China reportedly stopped buying bananas from the Philippines after Manila opposed Beijing’s claim over the Scarborough Shoal in South China Sea.

Anil Bhardwaj, secretary-general of the Federation of Indian Micro and Small and Medium Enterprises, blames the Indian government and businesses for not being aggressive enough in entering the Chinese market. “We need to differentiate between the Chinese government and the Chinese consumers. Don’t forget, consumers in China are becoming more and more demanding. They are spending more. But we have failed to win their hearts,” says Bhardwaj, adding that Indian businesses are still locked in comfort zones — the US and Europe.

There has been a rise in the number of technical regulations in China, making it difficult for companies to crack the market, says TS Vishwanath, a trade expert and principal adviser to New Delhi-based law firm APJ-SLG Law Offices. Small and medium manufacturers have faced the brunt of this, despite genuine efforts. “Some of the sectors that face higher mandatory standards are chemicals, processed food, etc,” he adds.

A silver lining has been that Beijing has agreed on two counts regarding the bilateral trade. First, it has said the trade imbalance was unstainable in the long run and should be addressed. Second, its Commerce Minister Zhong Shan last month assured New Delhi he would facilitate Indian exporters to have direct meetings with Chinese regulators, which may give exporters better market access.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Patni » 29 Apr 2018 18:19

To me it looks like China has figured it can't bully India like it does rest of its neighbours and has is trying to increase its exports to India manifold more by counting on having huge trade balance in its favour for least couple of more years. From the post above it looks like we are importing stuff that's building up our infrastructure etc. I suppose going forward in short term (3 to 4 months) if Chinese trade surplus surge by 5% more it is going to be tough. One hopes that Indian industrial base expand fast to cater to raising demands rather than happily import away from China.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby jpremnath » 29 Apr 2018 18:33

We have been hearing about how India is 'Worried' about the expanding trade balance for years....so has been the usual chini response of how they are 'looking into ' addressing this and how it is 'unsustainable' .... the reality is that we are not doing anything that can hurt chinese firms and neither is china regarding opening to Indian industries.

It is high time the govt increase some duties on chinese imports or unleash the notorious indian babudom on giving license and stuff for importing 'certain' categories...let the chinks run around from pillar to post getting thousands of papers ready while their goods sit in warehouses...

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 29 Apr 2018 19:32

^^
Not a bad idea. TKiran saaru too suggested that we ban ALL imports from China but "Hawai (air) firing" is of no use. Just to illustrate, we can't ban pharma imports or even implement a go slow on them else we run the risk of killing a lot of Indian citizens in the process of trying to teach the Chinese a lesson. Who knows but it might turn out to be a rather expensive lesson for India how not to tackle trade imbalance. Hawai firing looks good on paper no doubt.

Lets first find out the composition of Indian imports from China. Then lets drill down to a category/product that you would clamp down on and how much impact that would have on the balance.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 29 Apr 2018 20:34

Also put the India China trade in perespective. Let's list trade figures for top 5 countries.


I know of an auto wheels factory that shifted production.to China from India. They supply to Detroit and custom wheels trade in US.

Never had a complaint from them.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Chandragupta » 29 Apr 2018 21:25

Modi's China policy is similar to Congress's except the fact that Modi may not compromise on NatSec. But apart from that, it is a confused and unclear policy.

I don't see any substantial gain from the summit. Xi made good gestures & gave good PR to Modi because somewhere they understand that Modi, like most Indian leaders, may be influenced by intangible rather than the tangible. The fact that Modi gives a very personal touch to the leaders of the friendly country is not lost on the Chinese. They have used similar levers on him, lot of gestures, symbolism and little substance.

I can't figure out why Modi went to China. If he did go there to request the Chinese to not throw a spanner before 2019 then it is a gigantic mistake. Coming to China from a position of weakness, you have lost the battle already. Now the Chinese hold all the cards.

Seems to me that India-China have compromised on CPEC and OBOR, India will not join but not do anything else about it and China, in returns, keeps their hands off the Indian territory. That itself is a unequal bargain. With OBOR they will have access to all of Sub continent's markets and then towards Central Asia and Europe. It is a humongous threat to Indian economic interests and I think we have thrown in the towel.

Regarding the Indo-China trade, it is not that easy to ban Chinese imports. A lot of machinery being used in India is of Chinese origin clones of European and American machines which are 4-5x the cost of the Chinese ones. We are at a point where without Chinese machinery, a lot of Indian industry will suffer. But what can be done is to block the imports that are not as important as machinery and go after them with a vengeance. But I doubt this GoI has stomach for that kind of fight. It is disappointing because I expected Modi to have a more aggressive China policy. With OBOR, China will swarm South Asia and beyond within the next 25 years. Where will India sell its products?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 29 Apr 2018 22:14

On Modi's China policy .. you may well be right. Modi's 56 inches chest will not compensate for the financial/economic disparity between India and China. He will have to play with the card he has been dealt. His strongest cards are defensive and around our borders.

I had no expectation from the meeting except for they will agree to avoid a direct conflict as far as possible. The outcome has been on expected line as far as I am concerned but with China even that is not assured.

Rest is speculation and yours is as good as anyone else. Whether they have reached any secret understanding that only time will tell.

https://twitter.com/ananthkrishnan/stat ... 3749597185
Ananth Krishnan @ananthkrishnan

Correct. Both Indian & Chinese releases more or less reiterate past positions. But that’s expected as this isn’t a formal joint statement. The informal understandings reached have taken the story a little beyond that is my sense from *both* sides, although just a beginning.https://twitter.com/yusufdfi/status/990433904740909060

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 29 Apr 2018 22:40

http://mea.gov.in/press-releases.htm?dt ... t_at_Wuhan
India-China Informal Summit at Wuhan
1. Prime Minister of India, H.E. Shri Narendra Modi and President of People's Republic of China, H.E. Mr. Xi Jinping held their first Informal Summit in Wuhan on April 27-28, 2018, to exchange views on overarching issues of bilateral and global importance, and to elaborate their respective visions and priorities for national development in the context of the current and future international situation. [Official reason for the vizit]

2. They believe that the simultaneous emergence of India and China as two large economies and major powers with strategic and decisional autonomy, has implications of regional and global significance. They shared the view that peaceful, stable and balanced relations between India and China will be a positive factor for stability amidst current global uncertainties. They also agreed that proper management of the bilateral relationship will be conducive for the development and prosperity of the region, and will create the conditions for the Asian Century. To this end, they decided to strengthen the Closer Development Partnership in a mutually beneficial and sustainable manner, in pursuit of national modernization and greater prosperity for their peoples.

3. Prime Minister Modi and President Xi reviewed developments in India-China relations from the strategic and long-term perspective. They agreed to significantly enhance efforts to build on the convergences through the established mechanisms in order to create the broadest possible platform for the future relationship. They also agreed that both sides have the maturity and wisdom to handle the differences through peaceful discussion within the context of the overall relationship, bearing in mind the importance of respecting each other's sensitivities, concerns and aspirations.

4. The two leaders expressed their support for the work of the Special Representatives on the India China Boundary Question and urged them to intensify their efforts to seek a fair, reasonable and mutually acceptable settlement. The two leaders underscored the importance of maintaining peace and tranquility in all areas of the India-China border region in the larger interest of the overall development of bilateral relations. To this end, they issued strategic guidance to their respective militaries to strengthen communication in order to build trust and mutual understanding and enhance predictability and effectiveness in the management of border affairs. The two leaders further directed their militaries to earnestly implement various confidence building measures agreed upon between the two sides, including the principle of mutual and equal security, and strengthen existing institutional arrangements and information sharing mechanisms to prevent incidents in border regions.

5. The two leaders agreed to push forward bilateral trade and investment in a balanced and sustainable manner by taking advantage of complementarities between their two economies. They also discussed ways to promote greater cultural and people-to-people exchanges and agreed to explore establishing new mechanisms in this direction.

6. Prime Minister Modi and President Xi underlined that as two major countries India and China have wider and overlapping regional and global interests. They agreed on their need to strengthen strategic communication through greater consultation on all matters of common interest. They believe that such strategic communication will have a positive influence on enhancing mutual understanding and will contribute to regional and global stability. [strategic communication]

7. The two leaders agreed that India and China have separately made major contributions to global peace and prosperity through their respective growth and economic development, and would continue to act as engines for global growth in the future. They reiterated the importance of building an open, multipolar, pluralist and participatory global economic order which will enable all countries to pursue their development and contribute to the elimination of poverty and inequality in all regions of the world. They spoke of their respective efforts to contribute to the regional and global economic development.

8. The two leaders also shared views on their respective foreign policy visions of achieving global prosperity and security. They agreed to jointly contribute in a positive and constructive way in facilitating sustainable solutions for global challenges including climate change, sustainable development, food security etc. They underscored the importance of reform of multilateral financial and political institutions to make them representative and responsive to the needs of developing countries.

9. The two leaders agreed that as two major countries and emerging economies, India and China, given their vast developmental experiences and national capacities, should join hands to take lead in offering innovative and sustainable solutions to challenges faced by humankind in the 21st century. These include combating diseases, coordinating action for disaster risk reduction and mitigation, addressing climate change and ushering digital empowerment. They agreed to pool together their expertise and resources in these areas and create a global network dedicated to these challenges for the larger benefit of humanity.

10. Prime Minister Modi and President Xi recognized the common threat posed by terrorism, and reiterated their strong condemnation of and resolute opposition to terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. They committed themselves to cooperate on counter-terrorism.

11. The two leaders highly assessed the opportunity for direct, free and candid exchange of views offered by the Informal Summit and agreed on the utility of holding more such dialogues in the future. The forward-looking dialogue raised the level of strategic communication about the perspective, priorities and vision that guide their respective policy choices domestically, regionally and globally. It also helped them in forging a common understanding of the future direction of India-China relations built upon mutual respect for each other's developmental aspirations and prudent management of differences with mutual sensitivity. [Exchange of views]

New Delhi
April 28, 2018

Exchange of views; Strategic communication; Exchange of views == Sum total of the visit

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Arima » 30 Apr 2018 01:08

Chandragupta wrote:
I can't figure out why Modi went to China. If he did go there to request the Chinese to not throw a spanner before 2019 then it is a gigantic mistake. Coming to China from a position of weakness, you have lost the battle already. Now the Chinese hold all the cards.


This theory can be validated untill May 2018 when no chinese play happen in IOR and Himalaya.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Arima » 30 Apr 2018 01:11



why are we importing boiler equipment from China in such huge numbers? why cant Make In India reverse this trends?

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 30 Apr 2018 02:04

Arima wrote:why are we importing boiler equipment from China in such huge numbers? why cant Make In India reverse this trends?
Arima Ji ;
India is importing - as per this Article - US$ 11.121 Billion worth Nuclear Reactors and Boilers from China.

Many moons ago - I believe - the Indian Navy built Leander Class Frigates in Mazagon Docks Mumbai (Godavari & Nilgiri Types) and Garden Reach Shipyard in Kolkata (Brahmaputra Types) and a Number of these Ships had Boilers made in India by ACC - VICKER - BABCOCK & WILCOX GROUP. Some of them even had "Bhopal Turbines". IOW India has the Technology for Boilers and Turbines but I am not sure if India Builds Boilers and Turbines for Nuclear Reactors.

If India presently does not build Boilers for Nuclear Reactors or the Boilers are a Part of the Nuclear Plant from China then one cannot stop the Import of Boilers from China. As such I think that India should not Buy Nuclear Plants with Boilers made by China!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby GopiD » 01 May 2018 19:39

This is a sober analysis. While I think there's more to the picture than described in the article, it still adds worthy points of interest on the larger geopolitical map of India-China. Worth reading it in full.

https://www.dailyo.in/politics/india-china-ties-narendra-modi-xi-jinping-doklam-obor-unified-korea-us-pakistan-nsg-masood-azhar/story/1/23805.html

he Modi-Xi bilateral in Wuhan marked only the opening move in an elaborate chess game between the duo. Afghanistan is the chess board. Xi wants India to join the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI),


The decision by Xi and Modi to work jointly on economic projects in Afghanistan satisfies three Chinese concerns and two Indian ones.

First, India-China infrastructure projects will indirectly draw India into the BRI which, as Xi announced late last year, will extend to Afghanistan.

Second, for that to happen, peace must return to Afghanistan with the Pakistan-sponsored Taliban joining an Afghan coalition government at some stage.India’s economic role in Afghanistan, now backed by China, can help.

Third, a deeper economic partnership in the region between India and China will, Xi hopes, help wean India away from the US orbit of influence. Xi is keenly aware that by 2030 the world’s three largest economies will be the United States, China and India. In this geopolitical triangle, China and the US will form the two largest angles and India the smallest. But though the smallest, India will be the swing power. Whoever it aligns with – China or the US – will have the edge.


Xi knows that India and the US are developing a strong strategic military partnership. That is why he played the “pan-Asian” card with Modi. In Wuhan, Xi spoke emphatically of China and India as Asian powers building a “globalised and multipolar world” together.


As a shrewd strategist, Modi sees two benefits from Xi’s gameplan. The first is neutralising Pakistan.
The second benefit for India in Xi’s new overtures is that a joint India-China co-operation lowers the temperature on the eastern front.


Increasingly isolated and in Trump’s crosshairs, Xi’s pragmatism has compelled him to launch his charm offensive and seek co-operation with India rather than confrontation. The possibility of Doklam 2 has significantly receded.


Modi’s next move on the chessboard will be interesting. Pakistan-abetted terrorism needs to end. Membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) and designating Masood Azhar as a global terrorist will form part of the agenda of future Modi-Xi meetings.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 01 May 2018 20:30

Here is another view ....

NDTV Verified account @ndtv

#Opinion: At Wuhan flop show, Modi put in his place by Xi - by Mani Shankar Aiyar http://goo.gl/Wz23gy


Now going by Mani babus past record on Modi I think he is wrong AGAIN i.e. Modi was being wooed by Xi. Mani babus is as BIG of a contrarian indicator as any.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby panduranghari » 01 May 2018 20:45

ramana wrote:Also put the India China trade in perespective. Let's list trade figures for top 5 countries.


I know of an auto wheels factory that shifted production.to China from India. They supply to Detroit and custom wheels trade in US.

Never had a complaint from them.



In 2017, China generated a surplus subtotal worth $786.9-billion with the following 10 trading partners.

United States: US$276.8 billion (Up 52.9% since 2010)
Hong Kong: $273.6 billion (Up 32.8%)
Netherlands: $56.1 billion (Up 29.8%)
India: $51.6 billion (Up 157.1%)
United Kingdom: $34.7 billion (Up 26.5%)
Mexico: $24.2 billion (Up 120.1%)
Vietnam: $21.7 billion (Up 34.9%)
United Arab Emirates: $16.6 billion (Down -1%)
Pakistan: $16.5 billion (Up 216.5%)
Spain: $15 billion (Up 25.9%)

Surpluses from the following trade partners grew at the fastest pace from 2010 to 2017: Pakistan (up 216.5%), India (up 157.1%), Mexico (up 120.1%) and the United States (up 52.9%).



The following 10 leading products generated a surplus subtotal of $488.2 billion for China in its global trade during 2017. Metrics listed below highlight China’s strongest competitive advantages over worldwide trading partners for these specific goods.

Phone system devices including smartphones: US$171.6 billion (Up 105.6% since 2010)
Computers, optical readers: $116.2 billion (Up 3.5%)
TV receivers/monitors/projectors: $31 billion (Up 0.2%)
Lamps, lighting, illuminated signs: $28.5 billion (Up 218.9%)
Miscellaneous furniture: $25.4 billion (Up 44.4%)
Cases, handbags, wallets: $24.6 billion (Up 43.9%)
Women’s clothing (not knit or crochet): $24 billion (Up 63.2%)
Models, puzzles, miscellaneous toys: $23.7 billion (Up 138.8%)
Seats (excluding barber/dentist chairs): $21.9 billion (Up 59.1%)
Footwear (rubber or plastic): $21.3 billion (Up 48.2%)

The top product delivering the greatest surplus growth from 2010 to 2017 was lamps, lighting and illuminated signs (up 218.9%). In second place were models, puzzles and miscellaneous toys (up 138.8%) followed by phone system devices including smartphones (up 105.6%).



The 10 major products below accumulated a deficit subtotal of -$627.6 billion for China in international trade during 2017. China has demonstrated the severest competitive disadvantages in the exports and imports of the following commodities.

Integrated circuits/microassemblies: -US$192.1 billion (Up 49.6% since 2010)
Crude oil: -$160.4 billion (Up 20%)
Iron ores, concentrates: -$75.7 billion (Down -5%)
Cars: -$42.8 billion (Up 60.1%)
Soya beans: -$39.5 billion (Up 58.3%)
Petroleum gases: -$31.2 billion (Up 539.7%)
Copper ores, concentrates: -$26.1 billion (Up 100.4%)
Miscellaneous aircraft, spacecraft (e.g. helicopters, launchers): -$21.8 billion (Up 106.3%)
Cyclic hydrocarbons: -$19.4 billion (Up 107.4%)
Refined copper, unwrought alloys: -$18.6 billion (Down -15.4%)

China’s red ink in global trade expanded at the fastest rate for the following products: petroleum gases (up 539.7%), cyclic hydrocarbons (up 107.4%), miscellaneous aircraft or spacecraft (up 106.3%), copper ores and concentrates (up 100.4%) and cars (up 60.1%).



China experienced a losing international trade relationship with some countries. All told, the following 10 trade partners created a -$395.2 billion deficit subtotal in 2017 from exchanging exports and imports.

Taiwan: -US$110.9 billion (Up 28.8% since 2010)
South Korea: -$74.7 billion (Up 7.4%)
Australia: -$53.1 billion (Up 56.6%)
Switzerland: -$29.8 billion (Up 112%)
Brazil: -$29.4 billion (Up 115.6%)
Japan: -$28.1 billion (Down -49.5%)
Germany: -$25.7 billion (Up 314.4%)
Angola: -$18.1 billion (Down -13%)
Saudi Arabia: -$13.4 billion (Down -40.2%)
Malaysia: -$12 billion (Down -55.1%)

Swelling 314.4% from 2010 to 2017, China’s deficit with Germany grew the fastest. China’s negative net exports with Brazil rose 115.6% trailed by a 112% expansion Chinese red ink with Switzerland and a 56.6% increase with Australia.
China saw its country-specific deficits shrink with four top trade partners: Malaysia (down -55.1%), Japan (down -49.5%), Saudi Arabia (down -40.2%) and Angola (down -13%).

Leading shrinkage in China’s top per-country deficits was Malaysia (down -55.1%) followed by Japan (down -49.5%).



In 2017, China generated a surplus subtotal worth $786.9-billion with the following 10 trading partners.

United States: US$276.8 billion (Up 52.9% since 2010)
Hong Kong: $273.6 billion (Up 32.8%)
Netherlands: $56.1 billion (Up 29.8%)
India: $51.6 billion (Up 157.1%)
United Kingdom: $34.7 billion (Up 26.5%)
Mexico: $24.2 billion (Up 120.1%)
Vietnam: $21.7 billion (Up 34.9%)
United Arab Emirates: $16.6 billion (Down -1%)
Pakistan: $16.5 billion (Up 216.5%)
Spain: $15 billion (Up 25.9%)

Surpluses from the following trade partners grew at the fastest pace from 2010 to 2017: Pakistan (up 216.5%), India (up 157.1%), Mexico (up 120.1%) and the United States (up 52.9%).


http://www.worldstopexports.com/top-chi ... -balances/

China has tried addressing it loosing trade relationship aspects by buying US semiconductor factories (vetoed by Trump), Cars (by producing cheap replicas, but rich Chinese would rather buy a marque german car than chinese rip off - China has invested heavily in German car companies as some earlier post suggests the fear amongst German industries about increased risk to their Business models), crude oil and distillates (by starting its on DOA yuan oil contract), copper (purchasing copper mines in Africa for a long time).

abhik
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby abhik » 01 May 2018 23:37

^^^
Thanks for posting. So if we ignore HK (and Netherlands?) which are not the final destinations for Chinese exports - we are #2 with the biggest trade deficit after the US.

ramana
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 02 May 2018 00:21

I would like someone to list the top five trading partners of India and see the trade flows.

Yes China has a surplus in its favor of $51B with India.

Who else has what?

Rudradev
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rudradev » 02 May 2018 00:41

Code: Select all

Country           Exports Imports  Total$B   Trade Balance
1 China            16.34    68.10    84.44    -52.70
2 United States    46.00    21.70    67.70    24.30
3 UAE              30.29    19.45    49.74    10.84
4 Saudi Arabia     6.39     20.32    26.72    -13.93
5 Switzerland      0.98     19.30    20.28    -18.32


Our imports from China exceed our TOTAL trade volume with our second-biggest trading partner, the US.

Also, our trade deficit with China is greater than the trade surpluses we have with our next two biggest trading partners, US and UAE, combined.

panduranghari
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby panduranghari » 02 May 2018 02:02

The number 1 item imported from US and Switzerland is Gold.
The number 1 item imported from Saudi and UAE is oil
Most of the common goods we use in India like knives, pens, toys etc come from China.


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