Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
prasannasimha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 867
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:22

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby prasannasimha » 03 Nov 2018 00:29

What Chinese do is never official. UC browser etc had hacks

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 03 Nov 2018 06:43

ArjunPandit wrote:https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2171473/beijing-tells-washington-provide-concrete-evidence-china
We have seen this enough from Pakis. Master learning from slave

Same with the Masood Azhar case which China rejects every time with the standard "Not Enough Evidence".

Once had an interaction with a Chinese scholar. When confronted with the Chinese assistance to Pakistani nuclear weapon programme, he asked the same question with a smirk, "Do you have proof?" !! So, I had to give him all the proof but he rejected them all as not good enough. The indoctrination is so deep that they all parrot the same excuse.

And, they show some Ming-time broken porcelain jars in an islet of Indo-China Sea as a solid, convincing and irrefutable proof to claim the whole ICS!

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6004
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 03 Nov 2018 19:18

Big Brother is rating you: life under China’s social ranking system

The nation experiments with rewards for those who are deemed to be good citizens, whereas wrongdoing excludes you from even catching trains. Didi Tang reports from Dibaoquan, eastern China

Image
President Xi’s government has been experimenting with social credit plans in villages, cities and sectors

In the village, no good deed goes unnoticed: a Mr Li always accompanies his parents to watch traditional operas; another Mr Li is a generous donor to fundraising events; a third Mr Li cares about “every flower, every blade of grass and every tree in the village”. All are honoured on the village noticeboard.

Equally, no poor behaviour escapes attention. Next to the honoured names are the rules that govern the village’s social credit system.

Residents earn points for honourable acts. These include looking after elderly relatives, donating blood, volunteering in clean-up drives, giving money to village causes and co-operating with local government.

Image
Li Jinqi: “I meet targets in all aspects. Now I can live with full confidence that I am a good person”

They lose points for behaviour officially frowned on, such as squabbling with family members, trampling on public green space, dumping rubbish, building without permission, or interfering with government work.

If their score reaches a certain level they can qualify for cash rewards, reduced bus fares, queue-jumping in hospitals and free medical checks.

If they slip, they face being ostracised: unwelcome at village celebrations, denied perks such as free cooking oil and sent to the back of the queue for public services.

The village of 400 residents in the eastern Chinese province of Shandong is the frontline of Beijing’s ambition to have, by 2020, a unified national social credit scheme, in which the government will collect data on the behaviours of all 1.4 billion citizens, as well as nearly 30 million registered businesses, all government entities, social groups, and foreign companies doing business in the country. It wants to reward good deeds but punish bad acts in the hope of building a civil society where morality can be a hard currency.

Work has been underway since 2012, as China experiments with social credit plans in villages, cities and sectors, with the goal that these scattered plans will one day become interconnected. Its full scope is unknown, but the plan has already drawn criticisms from the West and human rights groups, which see it as another tool for China’s Communist regime to further control its people and cement an Orwellian rule by moulding its citizens’ behaviours. Mike Pence, the US vice-president, said in a recent speech that Beijing seeks to control “virtually every facet of human life” through the social credit system.

Image
Good citizens are honoured on the village noticeboard

The system is a nod to the communist country’s old-fashioned dossier system, in which a file was kept on everyone. Yet it is turbo charged by technology, deploying big data, artificial intelligence and high-resolution surveillance. It promises to be thorough and formidable. Similar to but much wider in scope than financial credit ratings, social credit scoring seeks to assess all aspects of a person’s life: if an individual supports the ruling party, conserves energy, signs up as an organ donor, pays bills on time, or follows traffic rules.

Anyone on the blacklist will have curbs placed on their access to travel, loans, jobs and their children’s education.

One government official explained: “If you commute by driving a Mercedes, your score would not be as high as me, who ride a shared bike. You lose points if you rent a big flat just for yourself when I rent a small one for a big family. Once my score is high enough, I will be eligible to buy a house, but your score is not enough so you still need to earn more points. You lose 10 points when you toss out a water bottle from the car, and if you don’t volunteer to plant trees in the spring, you are behind by another 100 points.”

The official propaganda declares that the social credit scheme will “allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under the sky but make it hard for the discredited to take a single step”.

Already, those with outstanding court-ordered debts have been barred from boarding high-speed trains and planes and seen their children dismissed from private schools. In one instance, a university threatened to refuse entry to a merit student unless his father paid a court debt.

Li Xiaolin, a lawyer, was unable to buy a plane ticket in 2016, after he got blacklisted by the China’s top court for having failed to carry out a court order, an issue he thought he had resolved.

Liu Hu, an investigative journalist who was detained in 2013 for criticising corrupt officials on social media, is labelled as an “untrustworthy person” over his failure to produce a public apology acceptable to a Beijing court. For now, Mr Liu cannot travel by aircraft or high-speed train, nor can he apply for loans, buy an apartment, start a business or send his child to a private school.

Maya Wang, a senior researcher at Human Rights Watch, said the system, despite uncertainties of how it would be implemented nationwide raised concerns over privacy.

Even in China, where dissent is routinely quashed, there has been strikingly little discussion on the looming national roll out.

If the village of Dibaoquan is any indication, the scheme might be welcomed by a Chinese public that has long been victim of frauds in food, drugs, baby formula and financial products. They yearn for an honourable society where they can place reasonable trust in strangers.

Image
Tally enough points and you could be given a free theme park trip

Village residents credit the social credit system for an improvement in public sanitation. Rural villages are notorious for litter, but this one is remarkably tidy and without a shred of rubbish. “We don’t litter any more but keep the rubbish in our hands until we can find a proper way to dispose of it,” Li Jing, a grandmother, said.

Ning Liqin, 48, a seafood wholesaler, said: “It’s so much better now. The village used to be dirty and disorderly, but our villagers are now so much more civilised in every aspect. The in-laws are getting along with each other. The neighbours are more amicable toward each other.”

By the village rules, everyone starts with a score of 1,000 points. Any convicted crime deducts points, as will other judged misdemeanours such as spreading rumours or failing to clean up after pets. Improper online speech sets a person back 50 points.

High scorers can be eligible for all-expenses-paid visits to local attractions. Those whose score falls below 990 face being cut out of village life and its perks.

The village falls under the jurisdiction of the Rongcheng municipal government, which has collected 19 million pieces of information on its 667,000 residents. Based on their social credit scores, the city’s social credit management office assigns every resident a grade from triple-A to D.

Anyone with a grade below B is disqualified for promotion in the public sector and anyone with a grade below A cannot join the ruling party or advance within the party.

On the city’s social credit website, those who have flouted fishing rules, sold adulterated food, refused to pay court-ordered debts or failed to yield to pedestrians while driving get shamed. Honoured are city bus drivers with excellent driving records, a taxi driver who returns a lost wallet, a volunteer who frequents nursing homes, and a lifeboat man who never turns down any assignment.

An online database is available for the public to check the social credit ratings of local businesses, government employees, and licensed professionals such as teachers, doctors, accountants and journalists.

In Dibaoquan, Li Jinqi, a 48-year-old grower of corn, peanuts and wheat, tries to be a good man. He donates to the village’s common causes. He volunteers to pick up rubbish. He is attentive to his aging parents’ daily needs and he is quick to help women and the elderly with heavy chores.

“I think what I do is in plain view. The village commission keeps track of all your acts. They set goals big and small, and they evaluate you on every aspect,” he said. “It’s like a test score. It cannot be a good thing if it’s low. Since my score is high, I can walk anywhere with my head held high. When I speak, I can speak aloud,” said a beaming Mr Li, who appears on the village’s honourable list for being hardworking, demonstrating filial piety, and volunteering.

He claims he does not know his exact score but is confident it’s “pretty high”. He said he wanted to earn points not for tangible benefits but for pride. “I meet targets in all aspects,” he said. “Now I can live with full confidence that I am a good person.”

Cheers Image

prasannasimha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 867
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:22

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby prasannasimha » 03 Nov 2018 23:50

When your intent is tohack yo wont follow official protocols channels isn't it. See the warning of UC Browser


SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 04 Nov 2018 17:11

‘Japan, India can have constructive ties with China’ - Suhasini Haidar, The Hindu

Interview with Japan’s Deputy Chief of Mission at Delhi, Hideki Asari
Q:What does the India-Japan combination provide these countries, that they don’t at present receive from other countries like China?

A:First of all, India and Japan are committed to providing quality infrastructure. Not just cheap but also good quality, which means they are resilient to the landscape. When we combine our efforts, we improve the effectiveness of each project. The project in Bangladesh (Jamuna Railway bridge) is one such example.

Q:While India and Japan are seen as part of the Indo-Pacific forum to counter China, we have seen recent outreaches to China by both PM Modi in Wuhan this year and during PM Abe’s visit to Beijing last week. Are we seeing a reset?

A:I don’t think there is any change in Japan’s vision of a free and open Indo-Pacific that is open, inclusive and willing to work with any partner who subscribes to international norms. Japan and India have promoted this vision without thinking of countering anything. Prime Minister Abe had a very good visit to China, and both Japan and India have a good reason to have a constructive relation with China. At the same time, both are committed to a rules-based order, so I don’t think there is any change.

Q: Will Japan join the Belt and Road Initiative?

A:Japan’s position on the BRI hasn’t changed. We do not express any blanket support for BRI. We believe any infrastructure development must be free and open, and any use of infrastructure must be non-exclusive and based on international standards.

We hope that the BRI takes into account such international standards and will contribute to the prosperity of the region. On this point, India and Japan are on the same page.


He is not giving away much but it is certainly more nuanced than before.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 04 Nov 2018 21:19

China backs Pakistan's 'quest for peace through dialogue' with India - PTI
China on Sunday said it supported Pakistan's "quest for peace through dialogue" to settle the outstanding disputes with India and backed Islamabad's engagement with the Nuclear Suppliers group (NSG).

According to a joint statement issued here [Beijing] after Prime Minister Imran Khan's talks with Chinese President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang, China backed Pakistan's efforts to improve ties with India to settle "outstanding disputes", without directly mentioning the Kashmir issue.

"China appreciates Pakistan's quest for peace through dialogue, cooperation and negotiation, on the basis of mutual respect and equality, and supports Pakistan's efforts for improvement of Pakistan-India relations and for settlement of outstanding disputes between the two countries," the joint statement said.

In recent years, China has refrained from taking a public stance on the India-Pakistan ties, expressing hope for resolution of the disputes through dialogue.

On the Kashmir issue, China's oft repeated stand was that it should be resolved peacefully through dialogue.

India too supports dialogue as the way to resolve the issue with Pakistan but maintains that the talks and terrorism cannot go together.

Also significantly, China tacitly expressed its backing for Pakistan's efforts to secure the NSG membership.

China has been blocking India's entry into the NSG on the ground that New Delhi is not a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) even though majority of the 48-member group supported India's entry into the elite nuclear club.

Pakistan too has applied for the NSG membership.

"The two sides reaffirmed their commitment to multilateral, non-discriminatory arms control and non-proliferation endeavours," the joint statement said.

"They noted with concern the continued pursuit of double standards in the application of non-proliferation norms and procedures and called for policies upholding rule of law and long-standing rules," it added.

China appreciates and supports steps taken by Pakistan for strengthening the global non-proliferation regime, it said.

In this context, China supports Pakistan's engagement with the Nuclear Suppliers Group and welcomes its adherence of NSG Guidelines, the statement added.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 04 Nov 2018 21:38

More from China, Pakistan define blueprint for “new era” tiesThe Hindu's Atul Aneja on the China-Pak Joint Statement
The statement further added that, “Pakistan supported active participation of China at the platform of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation”. Though China is an observer at SAARC, New Delhi is unlikely to countenance Beijing’s more active role in the South Asian grouping.

Without specifically referring to the controversy over Azhar’s designation as a terrorist by the Security Council’s 1267 sanctions committee, where China has been a major holdout preventing a consensus, the statement “underscored the need for all States to avoid politicisation of the UN Sanctions regime and the work of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF)”. Pakistan has been grey listed and put on notice by FATF — an organisation for countering international terror funding.

The two countries also said they were not yet ready to join a global counter-terror treaty, pointing out that a “consensus” should be forged on the text of the Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism CCIT) first. India had proposed CCIT in 1996, and its advocacy for the convention has grown stronger after the 2008 Mumbai attacks, originating from Pakistan.

Elsewhere in the statement, China lauded Pakistan’s role in becalming strife-torn Xinjiang, a region, which is central to President Xi Jinping’s signature Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

“The Pakistani side reaffirmed its support to the Chinese side in safeguarding its sovereignty and security, and combating separatism, terrorism and extremism including East Turkistan Islamic Movement,” the statement said {So, Masood Azhar & JeM are 'politicization', but ETIM is not}, referring to ETIM-- a separatist movement with nodes in Xinjiang. Beijing and Islamabad in the statement also slated their intent to “enhance cooperation between neighbouring regions,” in the transportation, trade and energy spheres.

The two sides slammed “the growing negative propaganda against CPEC” and “expressed determination to safeguard the CPEC projects from all threats”.

They reaffirmed “their complete consensus on the future trajectory of the CPEC, timely completion of its on-going projects and joint efforts for realisation of its full potential
with a focus on socio-economic development, job creation and livelihoods and accelerating cooperation in industrial development, industrial parks and agriculture”. The CPEC Joint Cooperation Committee (JCC) will meet before the year-end “to explore new areas of cooperation”. A working group on socio-economic development will to assist with livelihood projects in Pakistan.

China and Pakistan also agreed to shore up their military ties by maintaining high-level visits and exchanges at various levels between relevant departments of the two armed forces, and pledged to “deepen cooperation in areas such as military exercises, training cooperation, personnel exchanges, and equipment and technology cooperation”.

Trikaal
BRFite
Posts: 499
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 08:01

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Trikaal » 05 Nov 2018 00:44

prasannasimha wrote:What Chinese do is never official. UC browser etc had hacks

But then, UC browser got taken down, didn't it? I highly doubt PUBG, which is owned by a South Korean company actually, will indulge in something similar. Anyway, apps get hack-tested all the time and it is quite difficult to get away with hack-ware for long. The bigger threat is from chinese mobiles and their exclusive app suites. Apps like Mi-Backup store all ur data, including doc files on chinese servers potentially and are a big hack-threat. Govt departments need to set a strict policy of not allowing sensitive files to be transferred to mobiles and not allowing access to work mail through these phones.

prasannasimha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 867
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:22

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby prasannasimha » 05 Nov 2018 09:30

Please see Google Play store. UC Browser is very much there.
See the list of other software in the lust I provided. Most are still there.
The problem is not the Korean company. Tencent now has significant control. Would not trust them

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17673
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 05 Nov 2018 23:10

This could get quite nasty very soon.

This should not be catching the policy planners by surprise. It is just the sort of thing that the hans would typically do.

The gwadar route to the gulf and now this shortcut route to the Indian Ocean with access to port, repair, replenishment and drydocking facilities at hambanthota. The hans are playing the long game. They are certainly not our friends, well wishers or even our trade partners by any stretch of the imagination. There is a fundamental military thrust to the entire CPEC/BRI/OBOR thing.

This is another submarine choke point and so the subs would still have to go all the way around.

Thailand's move on Kra Canal alarms New Delhi as route will boost Chinese naval power in Indian Ocean



Thailand's move on Kra Canal alarms New Delhi as route will boost Chinese naval power in Indian Ocean

Nov 05, 2018

Pushed by his country's powerful military junta, Prime Minister of Thailand Prayut Chan-o-cha has ordered the country's National Security Council to begin examining the feasibility of proposals to build a 120-kilometre mega canal that would slash 1,200 kilometres off the route Chinese warships now take to reach South Asian ports — dramatically enhancing the superpower's ability to project power in future Indian Ocean wars.

Private investors from China have already committed $30 billion for the construction of the Kra Canal, first conceived of almost 350 years ago. Longhao, a Chinese construction company involved in the government's controversial island-building work in the South China Sea, will be given the responsibility for the work, Indian government sources told Firstpost.

President Chan-o-cha's decision, Indian government sources said, could mean that the project could be completed late in the next decade, forcing the Indian military to significantly rethink its planning and preparedness for conflicts involving China's growing navy.

File image of Thailand Prime Minister Prayut Chan-O-Cha. AFPFile image of Thailand Prime Minister Prayut Chan-O-Cha. AFP
Former Thai military commander Thawatchai Samutsakorn, who is vice-president of a private-sector consortium pushing for the Kra Canal, told The Bangkok Post that government committees to study the project will be set up before elections in February 2019.

"After the polls, when we have Opposition parties, they will oppose the campaign without taking into account the potential benefits to the country and the public," he said.

Geo-politics

From China's point of view, the Kra Canal offers a means to secure its expanding demand for West Asia's hydrocarbons against overcrowding in the Strait of Malacca — the world's busiest maritime lane through which an estimated 84,000 ships pass every year, carrying around 30 percent of the global trade transit. The World Bank estimates that over 1,40,000 ships will seek to transit through the Strait of Malacca annually by the end of the decade, far in excess of its capacity of 1,22,000 ships.

Exiting the Kra Canal westwards, traffic would enter the Andaman Sea, transit past India's Andaman and Nicobar Islands and then head south towards the Chinese-owned port at Hambantota in Sri Lanka.

But that isn't the end of the story. The Kra Canal would offer an alternative to a route surrounded by US allies, and thus, would be vulnerable to a blockade in the event of a geopolitical crisis. Former Chinese president Hu Jintao had underlined China's concerns about the straits, referring to it as the "Malacca dilemma".

Indeed, the geopolitics of the Kra Canal are one reason why Thailand remains divided on moving forward on China's proposal. Some in Thailand's strategic establishment fear that Chinese investment in the project will, inexorably, erode the country's sovereignty — a fear founded on the experience of Egypt and Panama, where the canals led to decades of foreign control.

"The history of the Panama and Suez canals shows that despite the unquestionable economic advantages of a canal, one country's funding of its construction on the territory of another country usually leads to the spread of significant influence by the first country," scholar Ivica Kinder has pointed out.

Thai critics of the project also believe it will devastate tourism earnings from resort towns along the Andaman Sea.

Uncertainty over economic viability

Experts remain divided on the economic viability of the Kra Canal, with some sceptical that it will ever pay for itself. Earlier this year, energy specialist Gary Norman had estimated that the canal would need to generate $4.57 million each day to pay for itself. Based on the assumption that 40 ships will transit the canal each day, he noted, that would mean a user fee of $1,15,000 per transit.

But, Norman pointed out, the typical additional fuel costs for the longer routes through the Malacca, Sunda or Lombok straits range from $40,000 to $1,20,000 per trip — not enough to justify the fee to use the canal.

The Suez Canal and the Panama Canal, bypassing entire continents, are able to charge large ships fees of around $2,50,000 and $1,25,000, respectively, because of the far larger savings in time they enable.

However, advocates said the Kra Canal project would handle a far higher number of ships and also draw investments from businesses linked to shipping, which range from engineering, supplies and legal services. The Thai Canal Association's plans also envisages building two large free trade zones and a new international airport.

The proposal put forward by Longhao, an Indian government source said, involved building two offshore islands for ships to berth, warehouses and even entertainment hubs. The company also proposed bringing in over 30,000 Chinese workers to build the canal.

Lyu Jian, Beijing's envoy to Bangkok, has privately told the Thai government that his country sees the Kra Canal as a strategic investment, part of the One-Belt- One-Road plan that envisages pushing new networks of rail, road and maritime links from Asia to Europe and Africa.

The Kra Canal has haunted East Asia's strategic imagination since 1677, when King Narai, the Great, asked the French engineer M de Lamar to explore linking the Andaman Sea with the Gulf of Thailand. King Rama I revived the idea in 1793, thinking it might provide a line of defence for the capital. And in 1858, Imperial Britain secured permission to begin digging but ran out of funds before work could start.

Fearing Japan might build the canal and thus bypass Britain's naval base in Singapore, Thailand later signed a treaty to not build the canal at all.

But the idea was revived in the last century — with both Soviet and US engineers at one point suggesting using nuclear bombs to cut through Thailand's intractable mountain ranges.

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6004
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 07 Nov 2018 03:30

India seeks greater market access in China – PTI

NEW DELHI: India has sought greater market access for areas like agriculture products, pharmaceuticals, IT services and tourism in China, with a view to bridge the widening trade deficit with the neighbouring country, the commerce ministry said Tuesday.

The issues were discussed during the meeting between commerce secretary Anup Wadhawan and Wang Shouwen, vice minister of China's commerce minister in Shanghai.

"The commerce secretary informed that areas like agriculture products, pharmaceuticals, information technology services and tourism in which India has proven strengths and significant global presence but minuscule presence in China, need to be encouraged in bilateral trade," it said.

Wadhawan asked for guidance, facilitation, support and assistance to the relevant stakeholders for creating a suitable environment for India's exports in these sectors to China, it added.

The bilateral trade stood at $89.71 billion in 2017-18. The trade deficit increased to $63.12 billion in 2017-18 as against $51.11 billion in the previous fiscal.

The commerce secretary also expressed concerns regarding the large trade deficit.

During this visit, the ministry said, Wadhawan had a discussion with important sugar Importers of China, including China Sugar Association.

He briefed them about India's sugar sector and its proven available capacity in terms of both, quality as well as quantity, to meet the Chinese requirements on a sustained long term basis.

Meanwhile, the department of commerce in a tweet said: "India, one of the largest producers of sugar in the world, can produce all 3 grades of sugar and expects to export around 2 million tonnes of raw sugar to China from this year onwards".

Cheers Image

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50641
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 07 Nov 2018 03:35

Paging Shiv:

Your videos on Dokhlam were very inspiring to people who face the Chinis.
Atleast some one gets their challenges.
Keep up the good work.

anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8059
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby anupmisra » 07 Nov 2018 06:09

Peregrine wrote:Big Brother is rating you: life under China’s social ranking system

The system is a nod to the communist country’s old-fashioned dossier system, in which a file was kept on everyone. Yet it is turbo charged by technology, deploying big data, artificial intelligence and high-resolution surveillance.


The Chinese have finessed the art of keeping tabs on the citizenry. They are also way ahead on AI compared to the rest of the world. Combine the two, you have 1984 written all over that society.

Image

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 07 Nov 2018 08:26

Quad countries to focus on maritime security - Rajat Pandit, ToI
WASHINGTON/HONULULU: The “Quad” countries, namely India, US, Japan and Australia, will hold their next meeting on the sidelines of the 13 th East Asia Summit at Singapore in mid-November, with the grouping keen to step-up maritime security and disaster relief initiatives as well as economic development projects in the critical Indo-Pacific region.

The US believes the Quad, as one of the elements of its larger Indo-Pacific strategy for “a free, open and rules-based order” in face of an aggressive and expansionist China in the region, should eventually evolve into a ministerial-level dialogue imbued with a strong military dimension.

But Washington also recognizes that New Delhi for now remains opposed to any militarization of the Quad
, which was revived after a decade as a joint secretary-level dialogue in November 2017, with its second meeting being held in June this year. India has also made it clear that the US should not “conflate” the Indo-Pacific with the Quad, stressing the centrality of Asean in the former.

“Quad is an opportunity for like-minded countries to share notes and collaborate on projects of mutual interest. All four countries share a vision of an open and free Indo-Pacific. Each is involved in development and economic projects as well as in promoting maritime domain awareness and maritime security,” senior state department official Alice G Wells told TOI.

“The Indo-Pacific strategy recognizes the centrality of Asean and APAC (Asia-Pacific region). This kind of grouping (Quad) is not in any way an effort to bypass these critical institutional bulwarks in the Indo-Pacific,” she added.

While “not ruling out” a military dimension in the Quad “in the future”, she stressed the present focus was on economic development and maritime security to ensure “the unimpeded use” of the international waterways and airspace in the region.

Senior US defence officials, in the Indo-Pacific Command at Honululu and elsewhere, were more direct in calling for a cooperative security framework. Blaming “closed and authoritarian” regimes like China for using “coercive tactics” and “trying to subvert international norms” in South China Sea and other areas, they said it would be “logical” to impart a military construct to the Quad. “We are not pushing it aggressively but see it as a natural progression,” said an official.

India, like the other three Quad countries, is also wary of China’s rapidly-expanding military and expeditionary capabilities. But it has studiously kept Australia out of the trilateral Malabar exercise with the US and Japan to avoid needling a prickly China, which sees any multi-lateral naval grouping in the region as a security axis seeking to contain it. China, after all, had lodged a strong protest when the Malabar exercise in the Bay of Bengal in 2007 had been expanded to include Australia and Singapore as well.

India, of course, continues to strengthen its strategic and military ties with the other three Quad countries on a bilateral and trilateral basis. Amid the Chinese Navy’s expanding footprint in the Indian Ocean Region, India is also undertaking “mission-based naval deployments” with warships spread across choke points from the Persian Gulf to Malacca Strait for any operational contingency, as reported by TOI earlier.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2664
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kit » 07 Nov 2018 09:20

Peregrine wrote:Big Brother is rating you: life under China’s social ranking system

The nation experiments with rewards for those who are deemed to be good citizens, whereas wrongdoing excludes you from even catching trains. Didi Tang reports from Dibaoquan, eastern China
President Xi’s government has been experimenting with social credit plans in villages, cities and sectors

In the village, no good deed goes unnoticed: a Mr Li always accompanies his parents to watch traditional operas; another Mr Li is a generous donor to fundraising events; a third Mr Li cares about “every flower, every blade of grass and every tree in the village”. All are honoured on the village noticeboard.

Equally, no poor behaviour escapes attention. Next to the honoured names are the rules that govern the village’s social credit system.

Residents earn points for honourable acts. These include looking after elderly relatives, donating blood, volunteering in clean-up drives, giving money to village causes and co-operating with local government.

Image
Li Jinqi: “I meet targets in all aspects. Now I can live with full confidence that I am a good person”

They lose points for behaviour officially frowned on, such as squabbling with family members, trampling on public green space, dumping rubbish, building without permission, or interfering with government work.

If their score reaches a certain level they can qualify for cash rewards, reduced bus fares, queue-jumping in hospitals and free medical checks.

If they slip, they face being ostracised: unwelcome at village celebrations, denied perks such as free cooking oil and sent to the back of the queue for public services.

The village of 400 residents in the eastern Chinese province of Shandong is the frontline of Beijing’s ambition to have, by 2020, a unified national social credit scheme, in which the government will collect data on the behaviours of all 1.4 billion citizens, as well as nearly 30 million registered businesses, all government entities, social groups, and foreign companies doing business in the country. It wants to reward good deeds but punish bad acts in the hope of building a civil society where morality can be a hard currency.

Work has been underway since 2012, as China experiments with social credit plans in villages, cities and sectors, with the goal that these scattered plans will one day become interconnected. Its full scope is unknown, but the plan has already drawn criticisms from the West and human rights groups, which see it as another tool for China’s Communist regime to further control its people and cement an Orwellian rule by moulding its citizens’ behaviours. Mike Pence, the US vice-president, said in a recent speech that Beijing seeks to control “virtually every facet of human life” through the social credit system.
Good citizens are honoured on the village noticeboard

The system is a nod to the communist country’s old-fashioned dossier system, in which a file was kept on everyone. Yet it is turbo charged by technology, deploying big data, artificial intelligence and high-resolution surveillance. It promises to be thorough and formidable. Similar to but much wider in scope than financial credit ratings, social credit scoring seeks to assess all aspects of a person’s life: if an individual supports the ruling party, conserves energy, signs up as an organ donor, pays bills on time, or follows traffic rules.

Liu Hu, an investigative journalist who was detained in 2013 for criticising corrupt officials on social media, is labelled as an “untrustworthy person” over his failure to produce a public apology acceptable to a Beijing court. For now, Mr Liu cannot travel by aircraft or high-speed train, nor can he apply for loans, buy an apartment, start a business or send his child to a private school.

Maya Wang, a senior researcher at Human Rights Watch, said the system, despite uncertainties of how it would be implemented nationwide raised concerns over privacy.

Even in China, where dissent is routinely quashed, there has been strikingly little discussion on the looming national roll out.

If the village of Dibaoquan is any indication, the scheme might be welcomed by a Chinese public that has long been victim of frauds in food, drugs, baby formula and financial products. They yearn for an honourable society where they can place reasonable trust in strangers.

Tally enough points and you could be given a free theme park trip

Village residents credit the social credit system for an improvement in public sanitation. Rural villages are notorious for litter, but this one is remarkably tidy and without a shred of rubbish. “We don’t litter any more but keep the rubbish in our hands until we can find a proper way to dispose of it,” Li Jing, a grandmother, said.

Ning Liqin, 48, a seafood wholesaler, said: “It’s so much better now. The village used to be dirty and disorderly, but our villagers are now so much more civilised in every aspect. The in-laws are getting along with each other. The neighbours are more amicable toward each other.”

By the village rules, everyone starts with a score of 1,000 points. Any convicted crime deducts points, as will other judged misdemeanours such as spreading rumours or failing to clean up after pets. Improper online speech sets a person back 50 points.

High scorers can be eligible for all-expenses-paid visits to local attractions. Those whose score falls below 990 face being cut out of village life and its perks.

The village falls under the jurisdiction of the Rongcheng municipal government, which has collected 19 million pieces of information on its 667,000 residents. Based on their social credit scores, the city’s social credit management office assigns every resident a grade from triple-A to D.

Anyone with a grade below B is disqualified for promotion in the public sector and anyone with a grade below A cannot join the ruling party or advance within the party.

He claims he does not know his exact score but is confident it’s “pretty high”. He said he wanted to earn points not for tangible benefits but for pride. “I meet targets in all aspects,” he said. “Now I can live with full confidence that I am a good person.”


the chinese are more and more like drones working for the collective looking to assimilate all around them !!

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 07 Nov 2018 12:27

Tibetan monks’ meet creates a flutter - Vijaita Singh, The Hindu
Ahead of National Security Adviser Ajit Doval’s proposed visit to China, the Centre convened a high-level meeting to discuss the development around the recent meeting between rival Tibetan monks in France.

Mr. Doval is expected to head to China towards the end of November for the Special Representative (SR) talks with State Councillor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi. Mr. Doval had convened a meeting of the Tibet Study Group last week.

Ogyen Trinley Dorje, the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, met Trinley Thaye Dorje, another Tibetan Buddhist leader, who is said to be his rival, on October 11.

Significant encounter

The meeting of the two monks in France was seen as a significant development in view of reports that Mr. Ogyen Trinley Dorje had refused to return to India from the U.S., where he has been living for more than a year now.

He also acquired the citizenship of Dominica, a Caribbean country, to enable him to travel around the world.

In a joint statement issued after the meeting, the two monks said they had met to sort out differences that had cropped up in the Karma Kagyu lineage.

The Centre had set up a Tibet Study Group a few years ago to specifically discuss developments around Mr. Ogyen Trinley Dorje.


A recommendatory body, the Tibet Study Group feeds inputs to the Chinese Study Group.

It comprises officials from the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA), Intelligence Bureau (IB), Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) and Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA).

“The group gives inputs to the Cabinet whenever required,” said the official.

Troubled relations

Mr. Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the head of the Karma Kagyu school, one of the four main schools of Tibetan Buddhism and is based at Dharamsala in Himachal Pradesh. He escaped from Tibet in 2000. He was once suspected to have links with the Chinese.

In 2011, the police had recovered ₹1.2 crore of unaccounted-for foreign currency, including Chinese currency, from the Gyuto Tantric University and Monastery in Dharamsala.

The police registered a case against the Karmapa and the government had put more restrictions on his travel.

However, in 2016, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) had eased restrictions on his movement in India.


SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 07 Nov 2018 14:24


chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17673
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 07 Nov 2018 19:37

Meanwhile, back at the motheaten ranch, imran khan niazi slinks back home with his tail between his legs, conspicuously empty handed and in dire need of plenty of burnol application in well known and much favored paki places.

The prospect of confronting trump for the "facilitation" of a new IMF loan can only be so much more daunting than xi's fairly gentle rap on the knuckles.

Wonder what the bajwa doctrine has to say about such situations.

The baloon has well and truly been punctured so they will simply ratchet up their "diplomatic" support to the savages in cashmere to salvage their wounded pride.

Looks like the ameriki sanctions have really hit the cheeni very hard.


imran khan returns empty-handed from China: Xi Jinping forced to extend minimal aid to ally amid US trade war


imran khan returns empty-handed from China: Xi Jinping forced to extend minimal aid to ally amid US trade war


Nov 05, 2018

Imran Khan is back from his first official visit to China. Imran's nervousness was apparent in his first interview to the Chinese media in which he repeated himself several times over, and he certainly did not come across as the head of a sovereign state. For a person of Imran Khan’s temperament, a visit primarily structured around a begging bowl couldn't have been all that pleasant. For that is what it was in reality. Worse still, it was something which could hardly be hidden from the public gaze.

First, in the matter of the urgent need to get financial assistance, his meeting with Premier Li Keqiang was not propitious. Xinhua quoted him at a press conference as saying that China was willing to provide assistance to Pakistan “within our capability”, a statement unlikely to provide any relief to his guest. The same tone echoed in the following meeting with vice-foreign minister Kong Xuanyou where it was said that China had “made it clear in principle that (it) will provide necessary support and assistance to Pakistan in tiding over the current economic difficulties".


It was also made clear that the actual amount of "assistance" will be discussed in subsequent meetings. Not a word about the rumoured $6 billion package, which was doing the rounds in the Pakistan media.

The mood in Beijing was well encapsulated by Cheng Xiaohe, deputy director of the Centre for International Strategic Studies at Renmin University in the South China Morning Post. He rather tartly noted while China was willing to assist Pakistan, it was finally Islamabad’s responsibility to take care of its own people. Coming to the crux of the matter, he observed that China had a liquidity problem due to its trade war with the US. Therefore Pakistan “must seek all kinds of assistance”. That’s as crisp as it gets.


Second is the issue of the nature and goals of Chinese loans and project assistance. Imran is no fool, and even before his election to the top post, the newly-elected prime minister had been stressing that Chinese assistance must also address the basic concerns of the people in terms of cheap housing, basic utilities and other aspects. In this he may get some reprieve.

The joint statement stated "Chinese assistance will also be directed towards agriculture, education, health, poverty alleviation, safe drinking water, and vocational training". Even that quote has unwieldy strings attached. The "agriculture" aspect is entirely aimed at achieving Chinese goals. Remember the "CPEC Master Plan" leaked mid last year, which indicated that Chinese enterprises would operate their own farms across thousands of acres in Pakistan, with an end to end plan ranging from seeds, logistics and market. That's not assistance. That's a take over.

Third, is the most ticklish aspect of a "re-negotiation" of Chinese loans that Imran and his team have been batting for. Nothing at all emerged on that front, and presumably, is going to be part of future discussions. The boiler plate joint statement did have some effusive language on Pakistan’s search for peace, and appreciated Pakistan’s “engagement” and “adherence” to the guidelines of the Nuclear Suppliers Group. No promise of membership as claimed by Indian media. Worse, the rest of the statement essentially commits Pakistan to the Chinese view on the Iran-US nuclear deal, and demanded ( as before ) a greater Chinese role in SAARC. None of this addresses Pakistan’s immediate concerns.

In conclusion therefore, Imran returned home empty handed. As the The Dawn observed, it is surprising that a prime minister should visit an important ally with expectations that were clearly belied by reality. Normally, a dozen preparatory meetings should have laid the ground for such a visit and its expected outcomes. Instead, it appeared that the prime minister was negotiating his own way out of debt, that too at a time when his country was virtually on fire due to the antics of an extreme right wing group bent on violence. Somewhere, somebody blundered.

For India or for anyone with an interest in South Asian stability, there are some aspects of interest. One aspect is that US-China trade confrontation has led to a state where China is reluctant to extend even minimal aid ( not assistance, which has conditions) to a valuable ally. Trade sanctions are therefore clearly biting. That’s interesting to say the least.

A second aspect is that Pakistan will have now have to rely on the IMF for its largest ever loan package. While this is certain to bite, it is less dangerous than a Pakistan virtually bought up by China. That’s not in anyone’s best interests, least of all Islamabad itself. A third aspect is that the “higher than a mountain, and deeper than the seas” friendship between the two countries seems to have come up against the earthy taste of reality.

Beijing is clearly not falling over itself to oblige Pakistan in terms of generous aid or social projects to any great degree. That last aspect will play itself out to the full only in the coming months. Wait and watch. This is only likely to get more interesting.


Updated Date: Nov 05, 2018 15:34 PM

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1423
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ArjunPandit » 07 Nov 2018 23:14

i think chinese will still pay up. If they dont they will face the heat on CPEC projects. Army might still be in wait and watch mode. In the end, army is the military (and the strongest) arm of the 10 headed monster called pakistan. If Pakis dont survive, these people will sell all CPEC projects to US at bankruptcy prices and screw china like anything. They may not have a toehold in xinjiang, but with their chinese engagement, they wont shy of highlighting the nuclear assistance given to them.
As the chinese curses said
1. May you live in interesting times
2. May the people in power know you
3. May all your wishes get fulfilled.
Seems like all three are true for pakistan at the same time

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17673
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 07 Nov 2018 23:56

ArjunPandit wrote:i think chinese will still pay up. If they dont they will face the heat on CPEC projects. Army might still be in wait and watch mode. In the end, army is the military (and the strongest) arm of the 10 headed monster called pakistan. If Pakis dont survive, these people will sell all CPEC projects to US at bankruptcy prices and screw china like anything. They may not have a toehold in xinjiang, but with their chinese engagement, they wont shy of highlighting the nuclear assistance given to them.
As the chinese curses said
1. May you live in interesting times
2. May the people in power know you
3. May all your wishes get fulfilled.
Seems like all three are true for pakistan at the same time


The hans need to quickly operationalize hambanthota (logistics) and gwadar (military). The rest can wait for better trade climes and times. Its probably why they put the moves on the SLs.

High oil prices are hurting the hans as much as trump is. Their exports are dwindling rapidly when they desperately need them to rise.

They are tactically patching up with India, japan, soko etc and quietening the region as much as they can, also they are patronizing the pakis and probably putting much of their BRI/OBOR/CPEC infrastructure on temporary hold.

They need a weakish paki army and as well as a weak and army controlled paki civilian govt.

If the pakis get too strong with the help of the hans, they will set out on another adventure, both in afghanistan and in cashmere. If the hans starve the pakis of aid, India will bugger the pakis. Iran too is waiting for the payback that is long overdue for the pakis because of their siding with the saudis.

All this is in addition to their own internal troubles that are ramping up to bite them and also beginning to draw international human rights attention and just maybe get hit by additional sanctions from the west.

It is a real dog's breakfast that the hans are looking at.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50641
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 08 Nov 2018 04:07

chetak, Xi Jinping will give IV drip only. Lots of moving pieces.
India not ready for TSP to fall apart yet.

I like the complex picture you paint. have you thought of using a mind map software?

V_Raman
BRFite
Posts: 408
Joined: 04 Sep 2008 22:25

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby V_Raman » 08 Nov 2018 05:07

If India becomes too ambitious Pak will be let go to break up at a time when we cannot handle it?!?! If USA succeeds in the trade war, then our time is up ?!?!

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50641
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ramana » 08 Nov 2018 05:39

YES. One risk.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3011
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kashi » 08 Nov 2018 05:57

ArjunPandit wrote:If Pakis dont survive, these people will sell all CPEC projects to US at bankruptcy prices and screw china like anything.


Why would US buy those projects, even at bankruptcy prices? It's not that these projects are anything to go by and they are unlikely to prop up US operations in Afghanistan.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1423
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Nov 2018 08:57

^^^Didn't you hear, for freedom and Democracy.

Dumal
BRFite
Posts: 195
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Dumal » 08 Nov 2018 16:35

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/china-shuns-rivalry-in-pacific-as-australia-says--this-is-our-patch--10907760

BEIJING/SYDNEY: Beijing and Canberra should be cooperating in the South Pacific and not be cast as strategic rivals, China's top diplomat said on Thursday, after Australia launched a multi-billion dollar fund to counter China's rising influence in the region.

Standing alongside Australian Foreign Minister Marise Payne, Chinese State Councillor Wang Yi made the conciliatory remarks after a meeting in Beijing widely billed as a step toward re-setting bilateral ties after a lengthy diplomatic chill.

Wang said that he had agreed with Payne that the two countries could combine their respective strengths and embark on trilateral cooperation with Pacific island countries.


^^^ Now they are pitching the 2+1 format to the Aussies!

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63378
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Singha » 09 Nov 2018 12:19

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/08/aust ... index.html

australia shivering in undies about cheen moves in south pacific polynesia

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4644
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Neshant » 09 Nov 2018 12:35

chetak wrote:imran khan returns empty-handed from China: Xi Jinping forced to extend minimal aid to ally amid US trade war


China wants the IMF to squeeze Pakistan.

Making the Pak govt obtain more revenue from its population through belt tightening, taxation..etc to repay OBOR/CPEC loans is China's aim.

If Pak has any brains, it will default on those loans and hand those (over-priced/hyped) projects back to China to operate - under equally unfavorable terms.

Handing those projects back to China will ensure China will have to make those projects profitable one way or another. That will require China to set up industrial zones within Pakistan itself and start utilizing the infrastructure they claimed would bring great riches to Pakistan. Either that or maintain the upkeep of that infrastructure for the foreseeable future losing money on it year after year.

China's predatory loan strategy won't work on Pakistan.

China is about to find out it is prey not predator in this debt relationship.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3011
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Kashi » 09 Nov 2018 13:11

Neshant wrote:China is about to find out it is prey not predator in this debt relationship.


I view them as two jackals looking to steal from each other.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17673
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 09 Nov 2018 13:28

ramana wrote:chetak, Xi Jinping will give IV drip only. Lots of moving pieces.
India not ready for TSP to fall apart yet.

I like the complex picture you paint. have you thought of using a mind map software?


ramana ji,

This BRF forum is mind blowing.

lots of interesting thoughts by folks watching different aspects of the han's slowing ballet. The lights are dimming and the music is beginning to fade.

Xi is the joker in the pack but his detractors may well turn out to be hoarding local trumps (pun intended).

The suit he currently holds is not all that strong and some seem to suggest that all that he currently holds is a one-card suit, the PLA. no one as yet has publicly responded to his opening bid.

Drinks are being ordered, preparatory to a long night.

The deck of cards in current play is US made.

These are interesting times.

I just hope that India keeps its nerve and stays the course.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 10 Nov 2018 06:39

China may open doors for soyabean from India - Amiti Sen, Business Line

After rice & sugar now soyabean. Let's wait and watch how these go and what develops.

Quality inspectors from China are soon expected to visit India to inspect facilities.

Beijing had imposed a ban on import of soyabean meals from India in 2012 over sanitary and phytosanitary issues. India produces 10-11 million tonnes of soyabean annually. India’s total soyabean meal exports jumped to 2 mt for oil year 2016-17 (October-September) from 320,000 tonnes the previous year.

China has already started importing non-basmati rice from India and has placed orders for raw sugar, which will be shipped early next year.

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6004
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Peregrine » 10 Nov 2018 17:05

‘A game of chicken’: US and China are risking a clash at sea - Jane Perlez and Steven Lee Myers

HONOLULU: From a distance, the warned the US destroyer that it was on a “dangerous course” in the Chinese Warship warned the US destroyer that it was on a “dangerous course” in the South China Sea. Then it raced up alongside, getting perilously close. For a few tense minutes, a collision seemed imminent.

The US vessel, the Decatur, blasted its whistle. The Chinese took no notice. Instead, the crew prepared to throw overboard large, shock absorbing fenders to protect their ship. They were “trying to push us out of the way,” one of the American sailors said.

Only a sharp starboard turn by the Decatur avoided a disaster in the calm equatorial waters that early morning in September — one that could have badly damaged both vessels, killed members of both crews and thrust two nuclear powers into an international crisis, according to a senior US official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the encounter in detail.

The ships came within 45 yards of each other, marking the closest call yet as the contests China’s military buildup in the South China Sea. The September 30 encounter signaled what US commanders fear is a perilous new phase in confrontations in the disputed waterway, which are unfolding without even a Cold War-style agreement on basic rules of conduct aimed at preventing escalation.

“A game of chicken is being played around Asia’s flash points,” said Brendan Taylor, an expert on the South China Sea at the Australian National University. “It is only a matter of time before a clash occurs,” Taylor said, adding that he sees significant potential for such an event to escalate into a larger crisis.

China’s defense minister, Wei Fenghe, and Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis are expected to make an effort to calm those rising tensions and reduce the risks of miscalculation when they meet in Washington on Friday.

But the trade war and Vice President Mike Pence’s speech last month declaring that the United States would take a far tougher line on China give the two men little incentive to ease tensions in the waterway.

Despite the risks, neither side appears ready to back down.

The United States and China “will meet each other more and more on the high seas,” the chief of naval operations, Adm. John M. Richardson, warned after September’s near miss.

The Trump administration told the Navy last year to execute more operations against China’s territorial claims, and it has sent warships more frequently to waters near the artificial islands China has bulked up with aircraft hangars, runways, deepwater harbors and, most recently, short-range missiles. Washington also recently asked allies to contribute their ships to the task.

“In response to this situation I believe that China will have to take the necessary measures to increase the cost of such provocative actions by the US and other relevant countries,” said Wu Shicun, president of the National Institute for South China Sea Studies in Haikou, China, who often reflects the view of the Chinese navy. “Otherwise the actions of the provocative parties will only be more and unscrupulous.”

The near crash with the Decatur showed, however, the dangers of the rivals squaring off against each other.

The incident occurred as the Decatur, with 300 crew members, sailed within 12 nautical miles of Gaven Reef, a pair of outcroppings in the sea that China has enlarged and fortified with weaponry since 2014. The Chinese destroyer, called the Lanzhou, with a similar number of seamen, sped up from behind and overtook it.

This account of what happened is based on interviews with US officials, as well as a video released by the British Ministry of Defense to The South China Morning Post that was described as authentic by a US defense official.

As China deploys more planes and ships to challenge US dominance in the region, such encounters may become more frequent. The United States says there were 18 unsafe incidents in the air and at sea between Chinese and US ships and aircraft in the Pacific region last year, a slight increase from previous years.

The lack of an agreement between China and the United States on the rules of the game in the South China Sea raises the risk of a deadly mishap, analysts say.

In 2001, a collision between a Chinese fighter jet and a US EP-3 spy plane over the waters off Hainan Island killed a Chinese pilot and soured relations for months. The two governments later agreed to set up a hotline between their militaries for handling such incidents, but that channel was not entirely effective.

During the Cold War, Washington and Moscow abided by an Incidents at Sea Agreement that more or less governed the way the navies of the two countries operated. But the naval contest between the United States and China is different.

Then, Moscow and Washington wanted to ensure freedom of navigation of the high seas to allow both powers to pursue their global interests. The rivalry between Beijing and Washington, however, centers on China’s territorial claim over virtually the entire South China Sea and US efforts to challenge it. The two sides have staked such adamant positions that any compromise to defuse or avoid confrontations seems unlikely.

The mission of the Decatur was to make the point that the high seas are open to all, and that the 12-mile zones claimed by China as sovereign territory do not stand up to international law. The Chinese argue that international law, as defined by a 2016 ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, does not apply.

In 2014, the United States and China, along with other countries, signed the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea, which mimics aspects of the earlier pact with the Soviets and spells out protocols for confrontations.

But the code is voluntary, and it does not address the basic question of territorial waters and who can go where, said Collin Koh, a maritime specialist at the Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore. “It’s more like a gentleman’s agreement,” he said.

Last week, Richardson urged China to “return to a consistent adherence to the agreed code,” which he said would “minimize the chance for a miscalculation that would possibly lead to a local incident and potential escalation.”

In effect, he was asking Chinese vessels to stop acting as lords of the South China Sea.

The growing sense of confrontation is enhanced by US concerns that its ships and crews are on the defensive after 70 years of unquestioned power across the Pacific Ocean.

In May, the head of the US Indo-Pacific Command, Adm. Philip S Davidson, told Congress that China controlled the South China Sea “in all scenarios short of war.”

That has led to a re-evaluation of the Navy’s strategic and spending priorities. As the Trump administration pushes the Navy to do more in the South China Sea, it is doing so with fewer assets just as the Chinese are increasing theirs.

In 2017, China had 317 warships and submarines compared to 283 in the US Navy. Even with 60 percent of the Navy in the Pacific, a smaller total force means fewer deployments around China’s periphery.

A projection by the Pentagon shows that by 2025, China’s military will have 30 percent more fighter aircraft and four aircraft carriers compared to its current two, a senior US military official said. The Chinese are also expected to have significantly more guided-missile destroyers, advanced undersea warfare systems and hypersonic missiles, the projection says.

The US concerns about Beijing’s naval modernization are reflected in a fictional account titled “How We Lost the Great Pacific War,” written by the director of intelligence and information operations of the Pacific Fleet, Dale C Rielage, and published in a Navy journal.

The article portrays a possibly dark outcome for the US Navy in the Pacific. Written in the form of a military dispatch from the year 2025, the author laments how the Navy had to “cannibalize aircraft, parts and people” and wonders if it will be able to “claw” its way back in the Western Pacific.

At the heart of this bleak prognosis is an assumption that the United States did not act aggressively enough in challenging China when it still could.

The article describes how an admiral, at the start of his term as chief of naval operations, saw that the Americans’ margin of victory in high-end naval combat had become razor thin — and would continue shrinking. “At the time, he assessed that the margin, though thin, remained ‘decisive.’ In the years following, however, the margin shifted imperceptibly to favor the other side.”

The article never names “the other side,” but makes clear: it is China

Cheers Image

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1423
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Nov 2018 17:53


Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19628
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 11 Nov 2018 14:26

If one wants to "defang" the Chins,first our MEA must grow some fangs.If it continues to remain silent at the butchering of democracy in Sri Lanka continuing to sit on the fence mouthless and motionless,it will inevitably be as the ancient Chinese saying goes...."Man who sits on fence for too long gets speartip up his backside!"

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 11 Nov 2018 18:11

India alive to emerging threats in Indo-Pacific, says Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa - PTI
The Indian Air Force is “very much alive” to emerging threats that could arise in the Indo Pacific region, Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa said Sunday, and asserted that his force was prepared to deal with any challenge to protect India’s national interests.

He also said there is cause for concern over the rate of modernisation and induction of new equipment in India’s neighbourhood, even as India faces challenges emanating from “unresolved territorial disputes” and “sponsored” non-state and transnational actors. But the IAF is capable of, and is moving ahead, for countering them effectively, he told PTI in an interview.


Asked whether the IAF can play a role in smashing terrorist training camps across the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir, he did not rule out such a possibility.

“The IAF is well equipped to take on threats which occur from across the border, be it in the realm of sub conventional or other domains,” the Air Chief Marshal said.

India’s immediate security challenges

Referring to India’s immediate security challenges, without naming China and Pakistan, he said, “The current challenges emanate from unresolved territorial issues, sponsored non-state actors and transnational actors who act against national interests through the global commons.”

“The IAF is prepared 24x7 for any threat and is ready for a befitting response to any contingency with all our available assets,” he told PTI.

Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa also made an indirect reference to China’s rapid modernisation of its air force and also about the infrastructure development Beijing has carried out in the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) bordering India.

“The IAF is well equipped to take on challenges across the entire range of threats that could emanate across our borders. While there is a cause for concern as regards to the rate of modernisation and induction of new equipment in our neighbourhood, the IAF is nevertheless, moving ahead with appropriate measures to cater to these new developments,” he said.

Geo-political influence

Asked whether the IAF was capable of playing a role to expand India’s geo-political influence in the Indo-Pacific region, he replied in the affirmative and talked about IAF’s capabilities including having the second largest fleet of C-17s.

“We have the second largest fleet of C-17s in the world. Therefore, India will pull its heft in helping out friendly nations in times of human distress and humanitarian relief. In addition, the IAF is very much alive to the emerging threats that could arise in the Indo Pacific region,” he said.

At present, the IAF has a fleet of ten C-17 Globemasters, used for strategic airlift missions, transporting troops and cargo for long-range missions.

The US has been pushing for a greater role for India in the Indo-Pacific which is seen by many countries as an effort to contain China’s growing clout in the region.

In November last year, India, the US, Australia and Japan gave shape to the long-pending “Quad” Coalition to develop a new strategy to keep the critical sea routes in the Indo-Pacific free of any influence.

Holistic approach

Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa said the IAF was adopting a holistic approach in harnessing all available resources at its disposal to deal with various security challenges in a collaborative and cohesive manner.

“The gradual shift in the centre of gravity of global financial power from the West to the East has brought many challenges to the fabric of existential peace in the Asia-Pacific,” he said.

“Security is no longer confined to the preservation of territorial integrity alone. It also encompasses a comprehensive concept including all elements of national power,” he added.

On IAF’s ambitious modernisation plan, the Chief of Air Staff said augmenting the fighter squadron strength was his top priority.

“To achieve this, the IAF is looking at new inductions and midlife upgrades. Towards this, MiG-29, Jaguar and Mirage-2000 aircraft are being upgraded in a phased manner in order to equip them with contemporary capabilities,” he said.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 13 Nov 2018 18:05

Beijing wants South China Sea code finished in three years

But, it is China which has been stalling the CoC process for over a decade now, isn't it?

It was in c. 2002 that a "Declaration of the Code of Conduct" was signed, but China has been stalling the process under one pretext or another. First, it said it wanted to deal individually with ASEAN member states, then it tried to cause dissension within ASEAN etc. It was only ast year that it agreed to start negotiations on CoC.

g.sarkar
BRFite
Posts: 1649
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 13 Nov 2018 23:50

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... ml#ref=rss
The Disappeared
An Inside Look at China's Reeducation Camps
By Katrin Kuntz, November 13, 2018
A million Muslims are being held in reeducation camps in northwestern China, where they are forced to learn Mandarin and sing communist songs. Ex-prisoners who have escaped across the border to Kazakhstan talk about their imprisonment.
On a day in October, with a strong wind chasing the clouds over the mountains of Almaty and carrying the first whiff of damp firewood through the streets, the first Kazakh rises up against China in the back room at a hotel in the city. Kairat Samarkan is his name, a stout man with soft features and big hands who loves horse milk and the stillness of the mountains. He holds onto the lectern in front of him, his eyes scanning the cameras pointed at him, and tries to smile. But the camp immediately returns to the forefront of his mind. It has been about a year since Samarkan disappeared into a reeducation camp in China where he was forced to learn Mandarin and to sing communist songs. He likely only regained his freedom because three months later he smashed his head against a wall so hard that he almost died. Now he is one of the few Muslims able to talk about China's indoctrination camps. Fifty Kazakh men and women are seated in front of him on this morning, anxiously waiting for him to begin telling his story. Each of them has relatives who apparently disappeared in China's camps.
Samarkan's body presses against the wooden lectern, and he slowly raises the microphone. "They tortured us when we made mistakes," he says. "Every morning they forced us to praise Xi Jinping, the Chinese president. We wished for him to live 10,000 years. We sang: China is greater and more developed than all other countries. In the afternoons, we had ideological lessons. The teachers talked about the 19th party congress and China's successes. Then they locked us back up." Samarkan is a Chinese-born shoe salesman who used to commute between the two countries. "As you know, we Muslims in Xinjiang province have been persecuted for years," he says. "But I didn't think they would start arresting everyone who visits Kazakhstan. On my last trip, Chinese police officers stopped me at a checkpoint. They accused me of having dual citizenship and of betraying my country."
They interrogated him for three days, his limbs stretched out in an iron chair. Samarkan hits the lectern with his hands. "They want to make us Chinese. Millions of Muslims in China are no longer allowed to be people."
A 'Harmonious Society'
The audience is quiet when Samarkan finishes. A woman cries silently. Many Kazakhs in attendance left their hamlets at dawn to attend this meeting, set up by the aid organization Atajurt. They have photos with them of their mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters who have been arrested in Xinjiang. They, too, bravely tell their stories into the microphones belonging to Kazakh broadcast journalists.
Most ethnic Kazakhs who are missing relatives were born in China and later emigrated to Kazakhstan, the land of their ancestors. The place they left behind, the northwestern Chinese administrative district officially known as the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, is primarily populated by Turkic peoples and is rich in natural resources. But it is the Han Chinese who profit from the economic upswing.
.....
Gautam

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 15 Nov 2018 19:13

Top Indian, Chinese officials hold defence, security dialogue - PTI
Top officials of India and China held the ninth Annual Defence and Security Dialogue in Beijing after a one-year gap due to the Doklam standoff, as both countries agreed to enhance military exchanges and interactions.

The dialogue on November 13 was held between the two defence delegations headed by Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra and China’s Deputy Chief of Joint Staff Department of the Central Military Commission.

At the talks both sides agreed on enhancing defence exchanges and interactions at different levels between the two militaries, a press release by the Indian Embassy in Beijing said on Thursday.

After the talks, Mr. Mitra called on Chinese State Councillor and Defence Minister General Wei Fenghe
on Wednesday, the release said.

Mr. Mitra was accompanied by senior officials of the ministry of defence and Indian Army, Navy and Air Force.

Doklam standoff


The annual dialogue did not take place last year following the 73-day tense standoff between the two militaries at Doklam, which was triggered by the Chinese PLA’s plan to build a road close to the narrow Chicken’s Neck corridor connecting India’s northeastern States in an area also claimed by Bhutan besides China.

The standoff ended when Chinese troops stopped the road construction after which both countries stepped up efforts to normalise relations leading to the informal summit between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Xi Jinping at Wuhan in April this year.

The defence dialogue was also held ahead of the 21st round of border talks between the Special Representatives of the two countries in the Chinese city of Dujiangyan on November 23-24.

National Security Advisor Ajit Doval and Chinese State Councillor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi are the designated Special Representatives for the border talks.

Besides efforts to work out a solution to resolve the boundary dispute spanning 3,488 km, the border talks also focussed on discussions on other aspects of India-China relations.

Defence exchanges

Also the two militaries are due to hold the annual ‘Hand-in-Hand’ drills next month in China after gap of one year.

During the dialogue, both sides also agreed on specific defence exchanges for 2019.

“Both sides agreed to enhance exchanges and interactions through reciprocal high-level visits between the two ministries of defence as well as between military commands, joint training exercises, mutual visits by defence personnel including mid-level and cadet officers were also agreed upon,” the Indian Embassy’s press release said.

Both sides reiterated the importance of maintaining peace and tranquillity in the border areas, implementing the consensus reached between Mr. Modi and Mr. Xi and specific additional confidence building measures at the operational level
, it said.

The two sides also had exchange of views on regional and global issues.

“Both sides underlined the importance of this dialogue as an important mechanism between the two countries for consultations on defence and security matters. They emphasised the need to further strengthen military-to-military ties in order to strengthen political and strategic mutual trust between the two countries,” it said.

Both sides agreed to hold the next round of the dialogue at a mutually convenient time in India in 2019.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23071
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 15 Nov 2018 22:22

Vietnam seeks India's suggestions on South China Sea's Freedom of Navigation ahead of President's visit - Dipanjan Roy Chaudhry, Economic Times
Vietnam has sought suggestions from India to keep South China Sea stable and ensure Freedom of Navigation in the region ahead of President Ram Nath Kovind's trip to Vietnam beginning later this week.

Vietnam's Ambassador to India Pham Sanh Chau, addressing a meet ahead of the Presidential visit, welcomed every possible ideas and initiative for maintenance of peace and stability, and more so freedom of navigation and movement in the South China Sea. The Ambassador also encouraged greater connectivity between India and Vietnam including direct connectivity.

He highlighted the fact that India is one of the three countries with whom Vietnam shares ‘Comprehensive Strategic Partnership’. He reiterated how India, being a non-communist country, has supported Vietnam over the years. In defence and security areas, India has readily provided Vietnam with security personnel training and technical assistance as well as defence equipment cooperation, the diplomat pointed out.

Former Indian Ambassador to Vietnam Preeti Saran, who also addressed the meet, talked about Vietnam’s richness in culture and diversity and how India fits in the circle of both nations cultural relations. She also reiterated how India and Vietnam abides strongly by international laws in respect to Indo-Pacific. The economic relation between the two countries is growing at an increasing pace, she remarked.

Dr. Anirban Ganguly, Director of Syama Prasad Mookerjee Research Foundation, explained how compelling the relation between India and Vietnam is. "India and Vietnam have the key to push their partnership to work on a particular structure of engagement in the Indo-Pacific," suggested Dr Ganguly.

This is Kovind's maiden visit to Southeast Asia. The meet was organized by Nehru Memorial Museum and Library in association with Embassy of Vietnam.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mappunni and 40 guests