Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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chetak
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 18 Jun 2020 14:38

how can you defang the chinese when one of the principal political party does this gaddari.

even cha cha neverwho would not have done such a dumb thing.

she was specially invited to the beijing olympic games under the heads of state category when the hans snubbed both the PM and the president of India by not inviting them.

now, the mysterious meetings between the cheeni ambasador in dilli where the congi die nasty family members were shamelessly freeloading on cheeni noodles and peking duck during the doklam crisis makes sense.


Did you know Congress party had signed a deal with Chinese Communist Party to consult each other on ‘important issues’: Read details


Congress and the mysterious ties with China's Communist Party and Xi Jinping.

18 June, 2020
OpIndia Staff



As tensions are mounting between India and China amidst the ongoing aggression from Chinese troops along the Line of Actual Control near Galwan Valley at Ladakh resulting in the death of 20 Indian soldiers and over 40 casualties on the Chinese side, there seems to be no-coherence between the opposition parties in the country as they have yet again resorted to cheap politicking of issues critical to national security.

At a time when the opposition parties, especially the Congress party has been castigating the Modi government over the ongoing standoff and subsequent Chinese aggression along the LAC on Monday resulting in the unfortunate death of Indian soldiers, more details are emerging regarding the intimate connection between the Congress party and the Communist Party of China (CPC) – the ruling and only political party in China.

The Congress party’s kid-glove treatment to China and the soft-condemnation against the Communist nation has now raised eyebrows as to know why the principal opposition party has been soft towards the hostile neighbour of the country. It is being said that the close connections between the Congress party and the CPC may be one of the reasons why the principal opposition party has now chosen to remain mute in attacking the Chinese and instead has been unleashing all its attacks against its own government.

Congress had signed a deal with the CCP to consult on ‘important issues’
One of the main reasons for the silence of the Congress party, perhaps, stems from the 7 August, 2008 agreement between the Sonia Gandhi-led Congress party and the Communist Party of China (CPC).

During UPA1 in 2008, the Congress party and the Communist Party of China (CPC) had signed a deal in Beijing for exchanging high-level information and co-operation between them. The memorandum of understanding (MoU) also provided the two parties with the “opportunity to consult each other on important bilateral, regional and international developments”.

Interestingly, the MoU was signed by the then Congress general secretary Rahul Gandhi and on the Chinese side, it was signed by none other than Xi Jinping himself, who was then the Chinese vice-president and standing committee member of the CPC’s politburo. The MoU was signed in the presence of his mother and party president Sonia Gandhi.

Before the signing of the MoU, the then Congress president Sonia Gandhi and his son Rahul Gandhi had held a long meeting with Xi and other senior leaders of the Communist Party of China to discuss issues of mutual interest.

In 2008, Sonia Gandhi had visited Beijing along with Rahul, daughter Priyanka, son-in-law Robert Vadra and their two children to attend the opening of the Olympic Games. A year before, Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi had also led a delegation of the Congress party to China.

The 2008 MoU between CCP and Congress came at a time when the Left parties in India had expressed lack of trust in UPA-1 government led by Congress. The India Today report suggests that even as China was aware of the political landscape in India, Xi Jinping went ahead and signed the pact with Congress as CCP wanted deeper ties with Congress, especially the Gandhi family.

Rahul Gandhi’s mysterious relationship with China
Not just the MoUs, but the close relationship between the Chinese leadership and the Congress party, especially Rahul Gandhi had also got highlighted just few years ago during the Doklam stand-off when Rahul Gandhi was caught secretly meeting Chinese officials.

The Gandhi-scion, not once but twice, was caught meeting Chinese officials, raising suspicion among the policymakers regarding the intent of his secretive meeting with the Chinese.

The first meeting had taken place in 2017, when Rahul Gandhi had a meeting with Chinese Ambassador to India Luo Zhaohui, especially at a time when India and China were in the middle of a stand-off at Doklam. At first, the Congress party had denied such meetings and had termed news reports suggesting that the Gandhi-scion had indeed met Chinese officials as ‘fake news’.

However, Congress party had to face massive embarrassment after the Chinese embassy had themselves confirmed about the meeting between the then Congress vice president and the Chinese envoy.

This meeting was especially suspicious, because the Congress party and Rahul Gandhi, at that time were vehemently attacking the Indian government over their stand in the ongoing military standoff with China.

In 2018, Rahul Gandhi had himself revealed regarding the secret meeting with a couple of Chinese ministers during his trip to Kailash Mansarovar in September 2018. The meeting was kept secret initially but later Rahul Gandhi had revealed the details of the meeting accidentally leading to people to speculate even more as to why both the Congress party and China were trying to hide the meeting.

Rahul Gandhi, the then president of India’s main opposition party secretly meeting the government officials of China and taking steps to keep the meetings secret had raised quite a few eyebrows back then.

Congress party’s disapproval over Adhir Ranjan Chowdhury’s backlash against China
In another interesting turn of events, Congress leader and Leader of Congress party in Lok Sabha – Adhir Ranjan Chowdhury, in May, had tweeted against China for its aggression along the LAC and had issued some warnings to China while praising the Indian forces.

The Congress leader, slamming China, warned the communist nation about how Indian forces can ‘defang the venomous snakes’ like China and stated that the entire world was watching the sinister designs of China while calling them “Yellow expansionist”. Chowdhury also urged the Modi government to accord to diplomatic recognition to Taiwan “without much delay”.

However, Adhir Ranjan Chowdhury’s bluster against China did not last long. Congress Leader of Opposition in the Lok Sabha Adhir Ranjan Chowdhury was forced to delete his tweet against China as it had reportedly did not please the Congress leadership.

After Chowdhury’s aggressive tweet against China, Rajya Sabha MP and senior Congress leader Anand Sharma had soon issued a clarification for the anti-China tweet made by the Congress leader Chowdhury.

Anand Sharma had tweeted, “The Indian National Congress recognises and values the special strategic partnership between India and China. As two ancient civilisations and large economies of the world, both countries are destined to make a significant contribution in the 21st Century.”

“The views of Congress Lok Sabha leader Adhir Ranjan Chowdhury in China are his own and do not reflect the party position,” the Rajya Sabha MP had added.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby vishvak » 18 Jun 2020 14:45

India on Monday rejected China’s demand to grant it market economy status, amid the ongoing face-off between the two armies along the Line of Actual Control (LAC). New Delhi will continue to treat its neighbour as a non-market economy, which allows it to impose steep anti-dumping duties on imports from China

May be Russia should be given that status instead and we could look at sourcing from Russian ports.

Just that perhaps better to not entertain idea that if Chinese soldiers don't squat on our borders then may as well squat on another border. And nothing wrong in business with Russia.

As it is the Chinese may already have lost a few billion dollars business per quarter after exaggerated and untenable statements from their MEA or what is it the Chinese pretend and call the CPC party standpoint.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Ambar » 18 Jun 2020 19:07

Yesterday the US President signed Uyghur human rights bill criticizing chinese atrocities against the Uyghurs and sanctioning chinese officials involved in human rights abuses.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/politics ... index.html

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 18 Jun 2020 19:16

Internal rot within India needs to be cleaned up that hands out critical contracts to Chinese companies. All involved should be forced to resign without pension.


Indian Railways terminates signalling contract worth Rs 471 crore with Chinese firm
https://www.opindia.com/2020/06/indian- ... nese-firm/

According to the reports, the Indian Railways has decided to cancel a signalling contract worth Rs 471 crore awarded to a Chinese company named Beijing National Railway Research & Design Institute of Signal & Communication in the year 2016.

The signalling contract, which was awarded on the 417-km long Kanpur-Deen Dayal Upadhyay (DDU) section, is being funded by the World Bank.

The Indian Railways said the contracts are being cancelled due to “reluctance of the company to furnish technical documents, as per contract agreement, such as logic design of electronic interlocking”. The decision was taken because the Chinese firm had only completed 20 per cent of the work in four years.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 18 Jun 2020 20:17

The jokers require a crisis to cancel a contract which has done only 20% in 4 years. If the crisis did not happen they would have continued. Looks like no due diligence done when contract awarded.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 18 Jun 2020 22:11

Xpost from border thread:

Let's see here. The PM of India pushes a signature manufacturing effort to bring and keep production within India. Five years after it was created, it's basically not getting anywhere, because the MSME industry has been gutted by a decade of Chinese imports coming in cheaply. And the businesses are too hooked on this cheap supply of Chinese imports. This was warned about many years ago.

The reality of politics is this - sometimes a war is good. It galvanizes a people who otherwise are too selfishly interested in their cheap imported Chinese goods to voluntarily boycott it. The most effective way to get them to change their ways is to enable a war to happen with an entity with whom there's been no bloody fighting in a generation.

If I were Modi, I would sit back in some satisfaction at the situation - a war like this offers the political space to squeeze the Chinese import channel out completely. The Chinese make $60 BILLION a year in trade surplus. That's 4 MMRCAs a year worth of sarees, fireworks, cheap toys, and unreliable hardware being imported from there. Cut that off, and the costs to them are far more than any war they've ever fought. Sure they can harm our exports, but we only export $15 billion to them, and they import $75 billion to us. They'll run out of stuff to ban a long way before us.

The current situation is an amazing opportunity to broadly dismantle the pernicious base of Chinese imports to India - and to do it on social media through widespread dissemination . Already, my family members are on Whatsapp asking what non-Chinese phone instead of Oppo/Lenovo they can use, and these are people who have never asked something like this before.

I see this as opportunity staring at us in the face - right down to us as individuals. The PM is in a great place to actually push for the Indian opium addiction to Chinese goods to be removed. Replacing it with our own production only benefits us, and it harms the Chinese greatly. What's more, people themselves can broadly push an economic boycott over SM .

Blame on the PM ? If I were sitting in his position, I'd be satisfied - I now have the popular anger to harness to squeeze the endless flow of Chinese goods into India and the flow of Indian wealth out. I would focus on channeling that anger into actually imposing an effective economic boycott. When the Chinese see a most of their trade surplus evaporate, they'll realize that their stupidity cost them 10-11 figure dollar losses.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby panduranghari » 18 Jun 2020 22:18

Vivasvat wrote:India rejects market economy tag for China
https://www.livemint.com/news/world/india-rejects-china-s-demand-to-grant-it-market-economy-status/amp-11592394036306.html
India on Monday rejected China’s demand to grant it market economy status, amid the ongoing face-off between the two armies along the Line of Actual Control (LAC). New Delhi will continue to treat its neighbour as a non-market economy, which allows it to impose steep anti-dumping duties on imports from China.

the European Union and the US have desisted from granting market economy status to China, citing wide-ranging price control on export commodities by China.

India initiated 18 anti-dumping proceedings in 2019, most of them against China, according to the WTO website.


What stops the GOI from imposing tariffs on all Chinese products? Only the fear of WTO.

Its puzzling to just play by the rules. All the time. Rules are meant to be broken in times like these.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Mort Walker » 18 Jun 2020 22:31

Surajsan,

Didn't GoI announce an immediate reduction of Chinese imports of $13B this fiscal?

Is there a current list of infrastructure contracts by central, state and private entities with Chinese companies? There is also trade with China indirectly through SE Asian countries. For example, $2B/annually Indian beef is exported to Vietnam destined for China. Can we please have a running list here?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Mort Walker » 18 Jun 2020 22:51

ANI is tweeting:

Restaurants selling Chinese food should be banned. I appeal to people to boycott Chinese food: Union Minister Ramdas Athawale


https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1273513215373176832


What is he talking about here? Actually imported food from China or Chinese cuisine? If it's the latter the guy is an idiot. Chinese cuisine in India is often run by Tibetans living in India.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 18 Jun 2020 22:54

He is an idiot.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby banrjeer » 18 Jun 2020 22:56

For economic retaliation you Need a short term and longer term plan based on models and impact on both sides.

Not all dumped products are necessarily bad especially where it does not hurt indian mfg.

Dumped products are subsidized by other higher margin exports from other Chinese companies. So maximizing some imports can actually hurt them.

Babus need to to plan strategically

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sudarshan » 18 Jun 2020 23:26

X-post from military thread.

MeshaVishwas wrote:Really infuriating to read EAM's tweet on our bravehearts being armed but still getting clubbed to death because of some obscure toilet paper agreement.
I blame Delhi and wish we had better leaders.

Edit:My friend shared this over WhatsApp, looks like we fail to learn from history:
Image
Image


I find this carving really interesting. Because the implications of that other Chinese guy in the left far background are, that there is no shortage of Jai Chand types on the Chinese side either, to back-stab each other. Which temple is this, anybody know?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 18 Jun 2020 23:31

Here are some hard realities: the Indian people and economic entiies are addicted to cheap Chinese goods, like an opium or crack addiction. It ranges all the way from Ambani level down to the mango man with an Oppo phone. 'Blaming' them is pointless. This is normal human behavior. Even China was one brought to its knees by addicting the entire population literally to opium, and what's more *we* made most of the opium that the British then shipped over to China. In Hong Kong, there's still a derogatory reference to Indians as 'ah san' - British managed Indian sepoys who drove the opium trade into mainland.

A political apparatus has the goal to wean the population off a bad habit. Telling people 'please stop using Oppo etc' does not work. People are selfish. They want to keep using cheap things while demanding someone else do something. You know what works well to get everyone angry and motivated to do something about it ? A war. A small border war that inflames anger.

It's hard to make domestic industrial policy while imports keep pouring in and people simply don't want to change. The smart politician knows that blaming the people who voted for him isn't the right way to tackle this. The smart way is to get them angry at someone else as a result of which they're collectively disgusted about the imports coming in, and they themselves can be compelled to stop doing so.

There's a greater truth to 'war is just politics by other means' than people realize here. This is an opportunity - to stop an incredible amount of Indian wealth being drained each year by an enormous trade deficit we have with China. Each year we pay them the price of 4 MMRCA deals.

Given the above, what would you rather do ? Sit back and contemplate just how much the Indian industrial base was being eroded by the endless flow of cheap imports and now the chance to channel popular anger to end that ? Or just blame the PM ?

One has to realize that when you run a huge trade deficit, and the seller picks a fight with you, you have the power to make him pay a disproportionate cost by shutting your market off to him. And shutting that market can happen down all the way to the individual level - it's exactly what the Indian political leadership would be happy to see, because it would enable their own policies to work more effectively.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby panduranghari » 18 Jun 2020 23:51

By demonstrating they are dissociating themselves from the Chinese vendors, government can set an example. But here we are pretty useless as government babus seem clueless. They still offer contracts to Chinese is bizzare.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 18 Jun 2020 23:55

This is not the time to complain about that. It's the time to clearly list what's happening that could change, and ask for it to be remedied.

The government, like any large entity, has thousands of departments that may not get the message. Give them the message, not a complaint.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sudarshan » 19 Jun 2020 00:44

Anybody have any good links to the Chinese connections of the Chindu and other "Indian" media outlets?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby samirdiw » 19 Jun 2020 03:10

Why is the govt not putting 100% tax of chinese goods? We sell them precious natural resources for making finished products which can be used by our manufacturers and in return we get some consumer goods. What is Modiji waiting for?

If Pakistanis can ban imports from India why cant we do the same with China? They have nothing that we cant manufacture if we put our minds to it. Open up the field for walmart but insist on 90% items to be sourced from India. Maybe the trader community will cry but they will adapt after a while or have to.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 19 Jun 2020 04:56

Import duties are ultimately borne by the consumer to whom it is passed. Simply applying a kneejerk tax is rather pointless since the Chinese will apply one too, and then the noise will die down.

The approach has to be far longer term. Entire swathes of goods that the Chinese import need to be eliminated from the import basket, by blocking them from importing it and incentivizing domestic production and other sources.

The Chinese made the cardinal mistake of fighting their 2nd most lucrative buyer, and the price that can be laid at their feet is at minimum in the tens of billions of dollars.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sudarshan » 19 Jun 2020 05:18





Thanks to both of you for two of the saner posts on that thread. I don't want to contribute any posts to the clutter there, since that thread has become a loony whine-fest for the most part.

Points which corroborate the above narratives:

* China isn't braying hoarse, threatening, gloating, hissing, and spitting like usual.

* The quick release of the Indian POWs - makes sense if the above narrative is true.

* Their demand for India to "punish the frontline troops which were involved."

On the whole, they do seem pretty shocked and muted.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby banrjeer » 19 Jun 2020 05:18

Today's China is a creation of the west.
China made Pukes a nuclear power in the 80s and unkil looked the other way.
And later the desire for cheap mfg and Labour was behind modern China's foundation. They sold their souls to each other. Now they are stuck with little option.

The cost of disentanglement will be high for the whole world. Someone has to start it and enlist others.
India and Taiwan alone cannot do it. Hong kong is under their thumb. They have to enlist others.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby mappunni » 19 Jun 2020 05:22

Suraj wrote:Import duties are ultimately borne by the consumer to whom it is passed. Simply applying a kneejerk tax is rather pointless since the Chinese will apply one too, and then the noise will die down.

The approach has to be far longer term. Entire swathes of goods that the Chinese import need to be eliminated from the import basket, by blocking them from importing it and incentivizing domestic production and other sources.

The Chinese made the cardinal mistake of fighting their 2nd most lucrative buyer, and the price that can be laid at their feet is at minimum in the tens of billions of dollars.


Use non-tariff barriers, like enforcing Indian certification on all products imported into India. Example a cellphone charger that is imported into India. Use ISI standards to make them uncompetitive. Make the Chinki ******** print manuals for every product imported, into India in all the 22 national languages.

Make it unattractive for the Chinkis to sell in India.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 19 Jun 2020 05:50

Of course, non-tariff barriers will be an essential part of blockading Chinese imports, in addition to tariff, legal and legislative barriers.

Despite the difficult moment and loss of life of our troops, the clear-minded reality of the situation is that the Indian government today has the leverage to impose a 10-figure dollar cost on the Chinese and comparatively lesser cost to us, because they're the ones with the surplus, and we have the ability to slash that.

The Chinese have no leverage in this. What would they do - wag finger saying 'behave yourself or we'll stop selling you $75 billion of phones / sarees / toys / fireworks / assorted nonsense' , hainji ?

No, it's our side that can slash those imports and direct any tariffs to encourage industries to replace that. They'll run out of Indian imports to ban a long time before we run out of Chinese import to ban.

I hope GoI is very clear about this. Once India has slashed about $5-10 billion in Chinese imports, they will be incredibly conciliatory, and that would be the time to respond by slashing even more, until most of that trade deficit is gone.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Jun 2020 05:51

sudarshan wrote:




Thanks to both of you for two of the saner posts on that thread. I don't want to contribute any posts to the clutter there, since that thread has become a loony whine-fest for the most part.

Points which corroborate the above narratives:

* China isn't braying hoarse, threatening, gloating, hissing, and spitting like usual.

* The quick release of the Indian POWs - makes sense if the above narrative is true.

* Their demand for India to "punish the frontline troops which were involved."

On the whole, they do seem pretty shocked and muted.




Their demand for India to "punish the frontline troops which were involved.



That was the key piece of information. Informs us that the IA did something audacious. That the Chinese could not punish them ie they were successful.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby samirdiw » 19 Jun 2020 06:02

Suraj wrote:Import duties are ultimately borne by the consumer to whom it is passed. Simply applying a kneejerk tax is rather pointless since the Chinese will apply one too, and then the noise will die down.


The cost of these goods will be so high that some Indian company will be able to fill in the gap. Its not like they are selling items not available elsewhere or cannot be manufactured.

If you look at the imports from India, its mostly raw material. Raw material used to make the heavy machinery or consumer goods. This is not a win win trade situation. We can easily find alternate customers at a slight margin difference either internal or external.

There is zero net benefit in the current trade with China.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-in-india

OnePlus, a China-based smartphone maker, saw its latest model sold off within minutes in India on Thursday, despite growing calls for boycott of Chinese goods following a border conflict between the Asian neighbors.


Cant expect average person to identify what is Chinese and what is not. It almost downright silly. They will buy what is available. Instead of passing the buck onto the people its the govts responsibility to enforce a ban/tax and businesses and people will find a way to alternate

In six months anyways people will forget this incident. Hopefully Modi doesnt forget this this stinging loss like the previous govt did.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 19 Jun 2020 07:17

We are talking last each other here . I’m not interested in telling people to stop buying Chinese goods either because they won’t stop or won’t care . Not even the BRFites angrily posting in the border thread.

The argument has always been about the government blocking imports from China . A moderate tariff increase will just lead to a tit for tat increase from them and the matter will soon be forgotten; it also demonstrates lack of political motivation for vengeance . I would like the government to implement something far more sweeping and damaging to Chinese economic interests in India .

The economy thread already has a discussion on which items from
China dominate their total imports by value . Pressuring the government to cut the main ones is the most bang for the buck . The numbers here aren’t in thousand of crores but several lakh crores in Chinese trade surplus .

I don’t consider this any sort of stinging loss . That’s your own choice to imagine.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby yensoy » 19 Jun 2020 09:29

Suraj wrote:A moderate tariff increase will just lead to a tit for tat increase from them and the matter will soon be forgotten; it also demonstrates lack of political motivation for vengeance .

No.
1. There is no tit for tat. Nothing much of value that Chinese import from us, so we don't have much to lose here.
2. The idea behind graduated increases in taxes for Chinese goods is to hurt them sure, but more importantly to make it more viable to make these goods locally.
3. If we really had our act together, we would then cross subsidize our local manufacturers with these funds to make it even better for them, and possibly start nibbling the export market.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 19 Jun 2020 09:37

I don’t mind the details as long as it is comprehensive and long term, and not a Trump like temporary reactionary thing . Break the back of the entire economy around the finished goods imports from China. Like i said earlier, we have the leverage to make this the costliest war they ever fought, literally.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Aarvee » 19 Jun 2020 11:26


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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kancha » 19 Jun 2020 14:25

kancha wrote:Shared some thoughts on the latest incident in Ladakh.
Twitter Link
Blog Link


Some more follow-up to this chain of thoughts.
Twitter Link
Blog Link

And true to that intuition, soon thereafter came a couple of tweets from China – thru Shri Hu Xijin, as well as the Global Times, acknowledging the ‘violent’ faceoff, but surprisingly, also acknowledging that the Chinese side too had suffered casualties!
Now this was really interesting.
You know why interesting?
Because till that time ,the GOI themselves had not said anything about casualties on the Chinese side.
To top it up, Shri Hu also seemed a bit ‘subdued’ from his characteristic bombast of recent days – calling for sanity to prevail, of all things!
Feel free to disagree, but to me it sounds like a plea not to escalate things any further.
Ok, ‘plea’ might be something that some folks may not agree with, so let me call it a ‘request’ instead.
Bottomline – The Chinese were not prepared for this magnitude of casualties on both sides. The very fact that they agreed to casualties on the PLA side and also said that they wouldn’t want to disclose their numbers, said as much.
They were willing to engage India towards de-escalation.


The sheer anger that it has generated means that the GOI simply cannot NOT retaliate.
Not retaliating would not only dent the image of the Nation, but also be political suicide for the Govt of the day. Heck, the ghost of 1962 still hangs around the neck of the then Prime Minister. So no, it wasn’t a surprise that the Prime Minister said what he said in his address to the Nation in light of the loss of own troops.
His words were poignant and loaded with meaning.
The Prime Minister himself saying those words means that the back-channels that back-channels to seek any mutually agreed way out of this mess have failed.
Of course, as I said before, it is far too big to ignore altogether.
Right on cue, the Chinese Foreign Minister called up the Indian EAM soon thereafter!


One thing is for sure – the way the Prime Minister and the External Affairs Minister have spoken, something will most likely happen – something very visible.
The earliest that we may see some announcement is 19 June when the all party meet shall take place. At the very least, I feel there is some sort of economic retaliation coming up against China. Let me delve on that for a moment, before moving ahead.
India’s trade deficit with China is more than $50Bn, despite all assurances by China to try and redress this imbalance. So economic retaliation does make a lot of sense. After all, China stands to lose much much more than India.
But then, this is NOT what I am getting at.
What I am more interested in, is how China takes economic sanctions from India, if it actually happens!
How they react will be really interesting to see, even if Indian sanctions are merely pinpricks compared to what the USA is doing to them!
Would the manic ego of the Chinese comrades permit them to swallow such ‘humiliation’ at the hands of an ‘uppity’ India?
With the USA, it can still be justified – it gives them a sense of having ‘arrived’, when the sole superpower is fighting an economic war with them.
But, India?


The sheer ego of the commies that occupy Tibet will prevent them from accepting such ‘humiliation’, that too at the hands of a supposedly ‘inferior’ neighbour.
So no, do NOT expect China to ever let go of their claims over the Galwan area by such no-kinetic means. They won’t back-off just like that. In fact, economic measures might actually exacerbate the military situation on the LAC.
So, how might that pan out?
Well, first thing first – Til the time the LAC provocations were limited to face-offs and fists and kicks, it didn’t really matter how many troops were amassed behind, so long as you could maintain numerical superiority at the point of face-off itself.
However, in case the guns start booming, this won’t be the case.
In such a scenario, a LOT will depend upon how many troops can China build up opposite Ladakh. What also has a bearing on this is how many troops can China actually spare for this contingency, given the mess they have created on all other borders.
Remember, there are THREE aircraft carrier of the US Navy patrolling the South China Sea and thereabouts!
So coming back to Ladakh – Can they build up numerical superiority to actually militarily enforce their claims?


If you think an India-China war is coming, well let me break some news to you – It has already started when the PLA came into Galwan with intentions to stay, instead of leaving.
The thing is that the wheels of history seem to be moving faster and faster with each passing day.
A lot of changes are likely to come by very soon, including possibly in national boundaries.
Brace yourselves; it will be nothing short of a roller-coaster ride!
In the end, I’ll just leave this statement here:
26 dynasties have ruled China over the past 22 centuries. CCP is just the 27th, and just about past the average the average lifetime of such dynasties.

pgbhat
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pgbhat » 19 Jun 2020 15:21

^Given that the attack seems preplanned with medieval weapons I don’t think CCP cares much about economic retaliation. All this is an attempt to display sheer disdain for anyone and everyone and impose itself as a military power globally. Having said that India should retaliate both economically and militarily.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 19 Jun 2020 17:22

China using coronavirus pandemic as a ‘smokescreen’: US Senator Mitch McConnell slams China for expansionist policies, violent clashes with India

But the world could not have received a clearer reminder that the PRC is dead-set on brutalizing people within their own borders, challenging and remaking the international order anew in their image to include literally redrawing the world map,” McConnell was quoted as saying.
https://www.opindia.com/2020/06/us-sena ... ashes-lac/
In a policy speech on Thursday, Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell reportedly stated that the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) of China may have instigated the violent clash along the Line of Actual Control in order to ‘grab territory’. He delivered his speech on the floor of the House and the Communist-ruled country featured in the list of countries that threaten the interest of the United States and its allies.


Chinese aggression along borders is to take advantage of the coronavirus pandemic when the world is distracted, says US diplomat

Assistant Secretary for East Asian and Pacific Affairs David Stilwell said that the Chinese government is unleashing its forces at a time when the world is distracted, adding that the Trump administration is closely watching the Indo-China situation.
https://www.opindia.com/2020/06/us-dipl ... ompeo-ccp/
Assistant Secretary for East Asian and Pacific Affairs David Stilwell said that the Chinese government is unleashing its forces at a time when the world is distracted, adding that the Trump administration is closely watching the Indo-China situation. The latest Chinese activities with India is similar to Beijing’s past activities on India border including Doklam, Stilwell said at a press conference.

“One explanation for China creating multiple fronts like this is an assessment in Beijing that the world is distracted and is focused entirely on survival as of now, recovering from the corona pandemic, which then possibly is seen as an opportunity to take advantage of the distraction,” Stilwell said.

The US diplomat added that though he is not offering an official US Government position on the issue, but there are already numerous explanations out there for that in the public domain regarding the aggressive Chinese behaviour with its neighbours, including India.

darshan
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 19 Jun 2020 17:54

GoI needs to tell Google and Apple to ban and have these apps not be in India.

UP STF Asks Its Personnel To Uninstall 52 Chinese Apps From Their Mobile Phones With Immediate Effect
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/up-stf-as ... ate-effect

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby kancha » 19 Jun 2020 18:16

pgbhat wrote:^Given that the attack seems preplanned with medieval weapons I don’t think CCP cares much about economic retaliation. All this is an attempt to display sheer disdain for anyone and everyone and impose itself as a military power globally. Having said that India should retaliate both economically and militarily.


Totally with you. The only way out of this current situation is for the Chinese to go back, at the very least, to their previous positions. Whether they do it on their own, or are made to do it under military pressure needs to be seen

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Rony » 19 Jun 2020 20:13

CHINA’S STRATEGIC ASSESSMENT OF THE LADAKH CLASH

https://warontherocks.com/2020/06/china ... akh-clash/

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 19 Jun 2020 20:16

If GoI cleans the house and sticks to it, then Chinese do fear anything that this GoI would do. Including economic sanctions. For the simple fact that Chinese don't want India to become manufacturer and have permanent MIC that can pump out weapons.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pgbhat » 19 Jun 2020 20:20

I know there will be a set of people who may think it is beneath our professional army to do this and I am aware that I am a keyboard warrior. Only way to shake the dragon is to dramatically over-react. For example, next CCP Army patrol along the Sino-Indian border should be ambushed by bunch of ground troops in full riot gear/bullet proof vests and shot with rubber bullets and beaten with batons, captured, fed vegan diet and handed back to CCP with absolutely no talks, demands or negotiations.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 19 Jun 2020 20:31

I believe that we have more than enough literature and history to suggest that there's nothing beneath one when fighting non Dharmics. This is a Dharmic war for the survival of civilization and there are no bars. But this needs to be made clear and all actions need to be taken only in this context. That's for Dharmic leaders to set the stage.

That being said without the classified information available, there's no way to tell what's what.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby sudarshan » 19 Jun 2020 20:53

pgbhat wrote:...fed vegan diet....


:shock: You would do that to a Chinese? Have you no scruples, man?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 19 Jun 2020 21:41

#CongisForSale

320 Cr? Corrupt CM for a state will have collected that in a month.

Completion of strategic DSDBO road was delayed because of misappropriation of fund and wrong alignment during Congress govt

The Chief Technical Examiner estimated that half of the money allotted for the project was misappropriated. The total monetary allocation made for the DSDBO road was Rs. 320 crore, which means around Rs 160 crore was misappropriated from the project.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/06/dsdbo-r ... overnment/

The 255 km-long all-weather road runs almost parallel to the LAC and took the Border Roads Organisation (BRO) almost two decades to complete. The DSDBO road connects Leh to Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO). DBO is in the northernmost corner of Ladakh, which the Army refers to as sub-sector North. And as fate would have it, the Congress government had jeopardised Indian national security by engaging in fraud in the construction of the important road as well.

An inquiry conducted by the Chief Technical Examiner (CTE), on the instructions of the CVC, discovered in 2011 that the road had been laid on flat terrain and not on the mountains as per the approved plan, as reported in an Indian Express report. The construction of the road in such a manner meant that it got damaged every summer due to the flooding of the Shyok River caused by melting snow.

Thus, from June to October, the road remained close for as many as 94 days due to the flooding. Then Leh-based Chief Engineer of Project Himank, Brigadier Rizvi, observed that the construction of the road was not as per the recommendations of the Recce Survey and Trace Cutting (RSTC). He said that much of the road would have to be realigned and reconstructed.

The CTE further estimated that half of the money allotted for the project was misappropriated. The total monetary allocation made for the DSDBO road was Rs. 320 crore, which means around Rs 160 crore was misappropriated from the project. The entire project was monitored by the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO). Dr. Manmohan Singh was the Prime Minister then. The original road was supposed to be completed by 2012 but the deadline was later extended to 2014. Ultimately, due to the need for realignment, it got pushed to 2017.

The approach of the UPA government with respect to China has always been dubious. For instance, they denied permission to the Indian Air Force to reactivate the DBO airstrip that serves a strategic objective for India in the region. In the end, former Air Marshall and the then Commander-in-Chief of the Western Air Command P K Barbora was forced to re-activate the airstrip without seeking prior permission from the Central Government.

The Congress party had also signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the Chinese Communist Party in 2008. The deal was to ensure the exchange of information between the two entities and provided the two parties with the “opportunity to consult each other on important bilateral, regional and international developments”.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Jarita » 19 Jun 2020 22:29

Was away from BRF for a while and have come back to a whole bunch of dhoti shivering and negativity. Why is everyone suddenly questioning the government and army? This is worse than twitter. Has the forum been infected by A shukhla clones. So much blackpilling
Atleast trust our army. No war or battle can be won without the forces believing they can win them. That is why a ragtag bunch of Vietnamese forces defeated greatest armies of the world. The Chinese lost over 80,000 of their soldiers at a kill ratio of 1:4 (Vietnamese being the 1):
We have a nationalistic government at the helm. All governments make some mistakes but Atleast this government will have the right intentions whatever be their decision. Trust the army.
And what’s up with those treacherous retired defense folks on TV. Horrific that they controlled our forces for so long.


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