Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby NRao » 29 Jun 2020 21:24

darshan wrote:Upper circle can change the tune as they have done before after Korean war. After all political entities are hard to trust. So I am looking for that perennial anger to come to the US voters. Similar to their disdain for Russians. I'm hoping that all that stuff in regards to China comes out during the upcoming election to spark this proper identification of the enemy.


At this point in time, too much to expect. Not happening. Wall Street is too powerful. One can see Sunder take two steps forward, one step back - and just like the Chinse - claim he has done his bit. Circus acts. Besides youngsters and their parents are more into break dancing, Tik Tok, etc.

And, please do not forget, China has gamed this very well. China has a detailed profile on anyone and everyone that matters in decision making and will deploy measures to counter even before people even think. China, very, unfortunately, has been underestimated. China has done an excellent job of distracting others into *thinking* all is well.
Last edited by NRao on 29 Jun 2020 21:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby NRao » 29 Jun 2020 21:27

abhik wrote:Finally some concrete action, Chinese apps banned (including TikTok, ShareIt) via @ShivAroor

..............................


That list came back about 3/4 weeks ago.

I have never sent a mass email to anyone on my personal email, I did with this. Back came answers: my mobile phone is Chinese!!!! No idea what to make of that - I think these are made in India and therefore without hardware traps.

I think some Chinese laptop/mobile phone manufacturer had issued a new model a couple of weeks ago, in India. They sold out in 2/3 days. Xiomi (sp?) stated that nothing has effected their sales in India.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby putnanja » 30 Jun 2020 00:26

NRao wrote:
abhik wrote:Finally some concrete action, Chinese apps banned (including TikTok, ShareIt) via @ShivAroor

..............................


That list came back about 3/4 weeks ago.

I have never sent a mass email to anyone on my personal email, I did with this. Back came answers: my mobile phone is Chinese!!!! No idea what to make of that - I think these are made in India and therefore without hardware traps.

I think some Chinese laptop/mobile phone manufacturer had issued a new model a couple of weeks ago, in India. They sold out in 2/3 days. Xiomi (sp?) stated that nothing has effected their sales in India.


I believe Xiomi has a mobile manufacturing plant in India. Brand is chinese though.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 30 Jun 2020 00:57

Making phone in India is useless if the software isn't certified or monitored by Indian govt. From the reading, it looks like that xiomi phones come loaded with bunch of its own apps and monitor all sorts of activities. Many go as far as curating your views by presenting you with news articles, videos, etc.




On the high end side you have likes of Motorola, OnePlus, etc.


ONEPLUS 8 SERIES TO GO ON SALE TODAY ON AMAZON INDIA: HERE ARE THE ALTERNATIVES TO CONSIDER
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.digit. ... o-consider

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 30 Jun 2020 03:13

From Paytm to Byju’s to Dream11 ⁠— Chinese investors have big money in India’s biggest startups
https://www.businessinsider.in/business ... 504194.cms

China’s biggest funds and their bets in India

Tencent Byju’s, Ola, Dream11, Flipkart, Hike, Swiggy, Udaan, Niyo, Gaana, Doubtnut, Khatabook, MX Player, Pocket FM, Practo, MyGate.

Alibaba Paytm, Bigbasket, Paytm Mall, Snapdeal, Zomato, Healofy, Ticketnow, Rapido, Vidooly, Xpressbees

Xiaomi Hungama, Sharechat, Rapido, ZestMoney, Oye! Rickshaw, City Mall, Marsplay Internet

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 30 Jun 2020 03:17

Which is good. They are now in fear of loosing money..

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 30 Jun 2020 04:16

The Rupee is not fully convertible on the capital account. Translation: investors cannot exchange their investments in India for their home currency freely and exit investments in India. Clearance is required. That clearance may disappear overnight, which means their money sits in Rupees in an Indian bank account then. Not some weird Indian legal constraint - China has the same thing, as does most of ASEAN.

This is different from current account convertibility, which is free. This means one can trade in goods and exchange between any amount of foreign and Indian currency for the purpose. As a result trade can only be curtailed using tariff and non-tariff barriers.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby NRao » 30 Jun 2020 10:37

Is it possible to allocate one or more Indian islands for people of Hong Kong who would prefer to leave but retain British passports? Model the islands after Hong Kong.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby rsingh » 30 Jun 2020 11:15

Chinese will bring item bum factor at very early stage. It may be direct threat or via bakistan. World leaders will condemn. In west they think that Indians are too pacifists to use bum. That Indian Gov is expandable. Chinese will take gamble by using small tactical item bum on an Indian advance. JMT
India has to do an open test (fast). It can be done in Australia or in pacific.(i am not dreaming).

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Ashokk » 01 Jul 2020 02:39

India’s app ban threatens China’s rise as a global tech power
China over the past decade built an alternate online reality where Google and Facebook barely exist. Now its own largest tech corporations from Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. to Tencent Holdings Ltd. are getting a taste of what a shutout feels like.
India’s unprecedented decision to ban 59 of China’s largest apps is a warning to the country’s tech giants, who for years thrived behind a government-imposed Great Firewall that kept out many of America’s best-known internet names. If India finds a way to carry out that threat, it may present a model for other countries from Europe to Southeast Asia that seek to curtail the pervasiveness of apps like ByteDance Ltd.’s TikTok while safeguarding their citizens’ enormously valuable data.
The surprise moratorium hit Chinese internet companies just as they were beginning to make headway in the world’s fastest-growing mobile arena, en route to going global and challenging American tech industry supremacy. TikTok had signed up 200 million users there, Xiaomi Corp. is the No. 1 smartphone brand, and Alibaba and Tencent have aggressively pushed their services.
But India’s policy jeopardizes all those successes, and could have wider geopolitical consequences as the US seeks to rally countries to stop using Huawei Technologies Co. for 5G networks. With China’s tech companies poised to become some of the most dominant in emerging industries like artificial intelligence, India’s actions may spur countries around the world to weigh the extent to which they let China gain user data -- and potentially economic leverage in future disputes.
“Techno-nationalism will manifest itself increasingly across all aspects of geopolitics: national security, economic competitiveness, even social values,” said Alex Capri, a Singapore-based research fellow at the Hinrich Foundation. “It will be increasingly difficult to separate Chinese tech firms from the CCP and China’s geopolitical ambitions. They will find themselves increasingly locked out.”
Chinese internet firms have struggled to replicate their online services beyond their home turf, even before Washington lawmakers began raising concerns about the wisdom of allowing the Asian country’s corporations -- like ByteDance -- to hoover up valuable personal data. India amplified those concerns by accusing apps including TikTok, Tencent’s WeChat, Alibaba’s UC Web and Baidu Inc.’s map and translation services of threatening its sovereignty and security.
India’s prohibition provides further evidence that nations are using tech for to assert themselves geopolitically, following the Trump administration’s worldwide campaign to contain China and national champions like Huawei. That depends in part on how much Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s actions are motivated by domestic interests following the worst military clash between India and China in almost half a century.
“Beijing should certainly worry that the impact of the deadly clash could push India toward the US,” said Zhang Baohui, director of the Centre for Asian Pacific Studies at Lingnan University. “But these recent economic measures by India may not by themselves concern Beijing too much as it understands that Modi’s government, facing rising domestic nationalism, has to do something to soothe the public sentiments and retain legitimacy.”
It remains unclear how India will enforce its decision, given TikTok -- for one -- has already been downloaded by roughly one in six people. But it follows a series of steps to curb China’s presence in the country, demonstrating the administration’s hardened resolve since long-simmering tensions boiled over after a deadly Himalayan border clash that killed 20 Indian soldiers.
The country’s government procurement website has barred purchases of Chinese-made goods. Authorities have asked the largest e-commerce companies, including Amazon.com Inc. and Walmart Inc.’s Flipkart, to start showing “country of origin” on goods sold. And India is said to be dragging its heels on clearing goods imported from China, stranding electronics at ports.
“The Indian government thinks about governing the internet in a very similar way to China, which is blanket bans, asserting national boundaries on the internet and essentially carving out what would eventually become a version of the Indian Great Firewall,” said Dev Lewis, a research fellow at Digital Asia Hub in Shanghai. “Everyone’s struggling to deal with governing technology companies and apps, especially ones that cross borders. So when India takes a step like this, it sets a precedent for the things that you can do.”
In terms of the immediate business consequences, ByteDance could be hardest-hit. India is its biggest market with more than 200 million TikTok users. During a brief ban last year, the Chinese company estimated it was missing out on half a million dollars a day of revenue. In a statement posted to Twitter, TikTok India head Nikhil Gandhi said the company complies with all data privacy and security requirements under Indian law and has not shared any user information with any foreign government, including Beijing.
India’s prohibition could also give American companies a possible edge over Chinese players in a rare global tech market that is both populous and not yet saturated. While WeChat never made it big in India, banning it may help shore up Facebook Inc.’s WhatsApp. Cutting out TikTok immediately gives Alphabet Inc.’s YouTube a boost.
On Tuesday, Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Zhao Lijian said China was “strongly concerned” about India’s actions. “The Indian government has a responsibility to uphold the legitimate and legal rights of the international investors including Chinese ones,” he said.
But for now, China doesn’t have many great options to retaliate.
“While Beijing is highly adept at economic coercion, in this case it has somewhat limited options to act in a reciprocal manner,” analysts for the Eurasia Group wrote in a research note. “Bilateral trade is heavily weighted toward Chinese exports to India. Attempts to hurt India economically could blowback on Chinese companies.”

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby g.sarkar » 01 Jul 2020 02:45

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... GGJeI.html
Indian websites not accessible in China as Xi Jinping govt blocks VPN
China is infamous for its repressive online censorship and the Xi Jinping government has refined it into an art with high-tech interventions.
Shishir Gupta, Hindustan Times, New Delhi, Jun 30, 2020

While Indian newspapers and TV channels continue to pick up reports about the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) from Chinese Communist propaganda sites, the Indian newspapers and websites cannot be accessed in Beijing now without Virtual Private Network (VPN) server.
According to diplomatic sources in Beijing, the Indian TV channels can be accessed through IP TV as of now. However, ExpressVPN had not been working in the Communist state for the past two days on iPhone as well as desktops.
VPNs are powerful tools which allow users to overcome blocking of censorship and visit a particular website. But China has created such a technologically advanced firewall that it blocks even the VPNs.
China is infamous for its repressive online censorship and the Xi Jinping government has refined it into an art with high-tech interventions. For example, anytime the word Hong Kong protest is mentioned on either CNN or BBC, the screens in Beijing go blank and news only returns after the topic is over.
The blocking of Indian websites is the latest amid the ongoing tension between India and China after the Ladakh stand-off on June 15. The latest development coincides with the Indian government’s move to ban 59 applications, most of them Chinese.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 01 Jul 2020 15:39

Image

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 01 Jul 2020 16:50

Cross post ...

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 726bb94327
‘Lethal’ capability in PM‘s $270bn defence plan
Australia will roll out an anti-ballistic missile defence shield for deployed forces for the first time, as well as land, sea and air-based long-range and hypersonic strike missiles, to project military power to the region and defend against potential “adversaries”.

In the most significant shift in the nation’s military posture in decades, Scott Morrison on Wednesday announced a $270bn 10-year defence plan including “lethal” naval and air warfare capability as well as the first land-based long-range missile defence systems.

It will include the development with the US of a missile defence shield against ballistic missile attack as well as potential long-range missile technology of up to several thousand kilometres to protect shipping lanes across the region.

Anti-submarine warfare, space-based intelligence and battlefield capability and underwater surveillance technology will also be developed.

The plan calls for advanced air-warfare capacity, combat drones, long-range naval missile strike ability, and “sovereign”-owned military satellites with ground-based signals intelligence facilities.

Btw, note .. Mililatry satellite, SIGIntel, space-based intelligence and battlefield capability, underwater surveillance, Ant-Sub capacity, ballistic missile shield and hypersonic strike missiles.

Looks like Australia is getting ready for battle in IOR generally and blocking Sunda strait and Lombak strait specifically. IFF India is able to bottle up Malacca strait, Gilgit Baltisthan becomes the lifeline to sustain Chinese navy in the IOR region. The CEPC road itself may not be as important as the Air-corridor that GB provides PLAN.

Expect some action in India soon on similar lines.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Philip » 01 Jul 2020 18:37

The last week has been v.heartening to see action from the centre,states and Indian traders,biz houses and the patriotic citizens all working together,separately though,but with the same goal,hurting China where it pains the most,in its pocket.

Banning Chin apps,cancelling contracts,hotels to bar their doors from Chins, traders to boycott their goods and the common man networking with colleagues,friends,relatives to spurn Chin goods.
Unfortunately,we still have doomsayers from the corporate world to scaredy cat politicos and babus, leftist collaborators, who have benefited much by serving the interests of the " Far East India Co." , aka China,who just like the Europeans first came to trade and stayed to rape and raid. China found just like the EIC, that palm greasing was the swiftest way to take over a nation. They did it in Sri Lanka turning a once proud island nation with a glorious heritage of mostly Indian culture of Buddhism and Hinduism into a servile Chin vassal.Mahinda Rajapakse,the Lankan PM ex- pres., is now begging India at this very moment to waive the $ 1 B due to us because of its eco crisis, brought about by his misrule where he connived with the Chins to loot and scoot his country's exchequer.Corrupt cronies allegedly recd. cuts of upto 50% of contracts and thf Chinx added another 25% for themselves!

In retrospect,we should profusely thank fuhrer XI for backstabbing us socwf would realise the extent to which we had mortgaged ourselves economically to China. Had he been patient and waited for a few years more, scores of Indian blue- chip cos. would today be Chin owned. His reckless adventurist actions have alienated a whole new generation of Indians, like the youth of '62.I vividly remember the dark days of '62 ,at school when friends told us of hectic troop movements at the railway station and the huge public protests and outcry against China in our town.

We must not rest on the splendid actions so far. Every day must see a new development in the " China- Quit India" movement. This is a patriotic mission where every ciuizen has immense power to hurt China by simply refusing to buy anything made by it and protesting to corporate houses and start- ups who are recipient of Chin coin to return their money which is stained rith the blood of Indian soldiers.

There are 3 very good reasons for boycotting China.
1.Its military barbarism against Indian troops and attempted territorial land grab,squatting on Indian soil since '62 refusing to leave,plus its attempts to encircle us in the IOR through military bases on foreign soil.

2. Its wholesale support to Pak.military,diplomatic and economic
conspiring with it to wage a proxy war through terrorism and planning a military JV against us.

3.The immense trade imbalance with it to the tune of
$70 B,destroying our MSMEs and sending millions into unemployment,turning us into its servile vassal entity. Its refusal to support our UNSC seat and NSG membership are some of the other good reasons for a boycott.

Its human rights record is abysmal too. If S.Africa could facf boycotts for its apartheid policy, China's genocidal policy towards the Tibetans,Uighars and crackdown in Hong Kong,turning HK into the globe's largest gulag, are enough reasons for combined international not uo mfntion its worst crimf of dll.Waging biolohical warfare upon the entire planet. That act alone should see it susprnded from the UN until it pays damages to yhe global community for its eviltude.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chanakyaa » 02 Jul 2020 01:39

The rise and fall of China's Starbucks know as Luckin Coffee --- stocks went from $50 to $2. If you check out their shiny website, you would never believe that this company would engage in fraud.

Luckin Coffee -- Accounting Fraud, Fabricated Financials (cornerstone of Zhōngguó)
Scandal-plagued Luckin Coffee (OTC: LKNC.Y) has released details of its internal investigation into the fabrication of approximately $300 million in revenue. Former CEO Jenny Zhiya Qian and former COO Jian Liu, who have both already been replaced, were confirmed to be linked to the fraud. The investigation also found other employees who reported to the two executives, along with third parties, were involved in the sales-fabrication scheme.

The investigation included more than 60 witness interviews, and the review of over 550,000 documents, according to CNBC. It found that the fabrication of sales began in April 2019, and involved inflating costs and expenses by almost $200 million, as well as booking $300 million in false revenue.
...

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Suraj » 02 Jul 2020 05:59

chetak wrote:Image

:rotfl: Even the 50 centers are in damage control mode, and they're too stupid to realize they're making it worse for themselves.

Just one more Chinese action that proves they aren't particularly sharp at figuring out what's best for them . First they provoke a war with one of their biggest sources of trade surplus, with whom they had concrete monetary reasons to keep quiet. Having done that, they find they're suddenly facing multi-billion losses in trade surpluses and now want us to think we 'need' their imports.

Presumably the next level of provocation will be "if you don't remove the roadblocks against our exports, we won't even export anything to you!" This is as effective and deeply thought out as "If you don't know why I'm upset, I won't tell you".

I've said this before and will repeat it: This is going to be the costliest war they ever fought. At least in the tens of billions a year going forward. There's nothing they can do about it.

They're welcome to block our intermediate goods export to them - they'll just enable us to feed it into our industry to make what we replace the imports from them with.

The Indian government is doing the right thing. Refuse to talk, refuse to engage, just quietly keep twisting the knife - law after law blocking everything quietly without much noise, but the pain in lost $$ felt immediately and progressively more and more in Beijing.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby m_saini » 02 Jul 2020 06:47

Suraj wrote:Just one more Chinese action that proves they aren't particularly sharp at figuring out what's best for them . First they provoke a war with one of their biggest sources of trade surplus, with whom they had concrete monetary reasons to keep quiet. Having done that, they find they're suddenly facing multi-billion losses in trade surpluses and now want us to think we 'need' their imports.


To be honest, it's us who're not particularly sharp. They've always undermined us at every opportunity and worked against our interests while we foolishly let the trade deficit to get to the present levels. We didn't do this after Doklam so no reason for them to think it we would do it now. But kudos to Modiji's gov to prove them wrong.


The Indian government is doing the right thing. Refuse to talk, refuse to engage, just quietly keep twisting the knife - law after law blocking everything quietly without much noise, but the pain in lost $$ felt immediately and progressively more and more in Beijing.


+1001

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 02 Jul 2020 11:53

chanakyaa wrote:The rise and fall of China's Starbucks know as Luckin Coffee --- stocks went from $50 to $2. If you check out their shiny website, you would never believe that this company would engage in fraud.

Luckin Coffee -- Accounting Fraud, Fabricated Financials (cornerstone of Zhōngguó)
Scandal-plagued Luckin Coffee (OTC: LKNC.Y) has released details of its internal investigation into the fabrication of approximately $300 million in revenue. Former CEO Jenny Zhiya Qian and former COO Jian Liu, who have both already been replaced, were confirmed to be linked to the fraud. The investigation also found other employees who reported to the two executives, along with third parties, were involved in the sales-fabrication scheme.[/u][/b]


Former CEO Jenny Zhiya Qian and former COO Jian Liu, and other employees would have had their organs harvested by now with the remains of their carcasses either fertilized or dumped in the coffee grinder and served up to the remaining employees as a "morale booster" and the stars of the new main theme in the company's new "re-education" program. :mrgreen:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 02 Jul 2020 12:17

@Suraj

Saar,

they are in a panic about the very real possibilities of this ban on their apps cascading across countries and hitting their data harvesting abilities, social media influencing potentiality, as well as their desperately needed income streams worldwide.

the US has already jacked huawei and ZTE by officially declaring them as natsec threats.

The US has the right to retaliate against the facebook, twitter, google et al banned in china by reciprocally banning all han apps in their country. trump may just be the cowboy to do it.

In India, even as we speak, they are being excluded from many juicy govt contracts by ministry after ministry.

Its the big private players in the telecom and power generation space, most of them beholden to the largesse of a rent-seeking die-nasty, who are in almost opaque financing deals with heavy hitters in the chinese financial domain.

It is these guys who are the "fly in the ointment", so to speak.



US welcomes India's 'clean app' policy banning Chinese apps


US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has welcomed India's ban on 59 Chinese apps, saying the "clean app" policy will promote India's national security against the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) spying on the country.

"We welcome India's ban on certain mobile apps that can serve as appendages of the CCP's surveillance state. India's 'clean app' approach will boost India's sovereignty, will also boost India's integrity and national security as the Indian government itself has stated," he said while briefing reporters in Washington on Tuesday.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Ashokk » 02 Jul 2020 12:42

TikTok may challenge government ban in court
TikTok is considering legal options against the ban on the Chinese-owned video-sharing platform in India, two lawyers with direct knowledge of the matter said. It held discussions with a Mumbai-based law firm on Tuesday on how the govt ban could be challenged in courts, they said.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 02 Jul 2020 12:50

xi has needlessly poked the Modi bear.

the gloves are slowly coming off and may not go on again, at least in the times of BJP's tenure.


After banning Chinese apps, India raises Hong Kong at UN



Shubhajit Roy
New Delhi
July 2, 2020


Earlier, the United States, Britain, the EU and UN rights agencies had all voiced fears against the Chinese law, which was intended to stifle protests in Hong Kong against Beijing.

For the first time since the Hong Kong protests broke out last year, India on Wednesday spoke out at the United Nations Human Rights Council and said the relevant parties should address the issues “properly, seriously and objectively”. This is being seen as a retaliatory step in terms of reputational cost to Beijing, after India inflicted economic cost to Beijing by banning Chinese mobile apps.

The statement was delivered by India’s Permanent Representative to the UN in Geneva, Rajiv Kumar Chander, at the 44th session of the Human Rights Council being held between 30 June-21 July in Geneva.

“Given the large Indian community that makes the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of China its home, India has been keeping a close watch on recent developments,” Chander said, reading out from a prepared statement.

“We have heard several statements expressing concern on these developments. We hope the relevant parties will take into account these views and address them properly, seriously and objectively,” Chander said, while making a statement during ‘Presentation of annual report and oral update on Covid-19 by the High Commissioner under Agenda 2.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Ashokk » 02 Jul 2020 13:56

China’s banking system begins to crack at its grass roots as two bank runs take place within a week
China’s US$40 trillion banking system is seeing growing signs of trouble at its grass roots with bank runs happening at two small local lenders last week, a sign that a mountain of debt and an unprecedented economic contraction has started to take a toll.
Local governments and police in both Baoding city in Hebei province and Yangquan, a coal mine town in Shanxi province, last week pleaded with customers not to withdraw cash from local banks despite various unsubstantiated rumours.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 02 Jul 2020 14:16

Regarding our dependence on Chinese two goods. There are obviously two categories. Low value goods and higher value goods which are cheaper compared to alternates.

First and foremost if you outright ban some of the Chinese companies, say mobile phones, nothing major is going to happen. People will buy the alternatives. You have apple, samsumg, sony etc and indian companies for cheaper options. All Indian companies have to do is follow the Chinese model. Add max features in a low cost bigger screen phone and it will sell. Nothing big about it.

Once you block Chinese companies, then slowly force companies, Indian & Foreign to use Chinese alternatives. If these alternatives are expensive, it in some case it will make economic sense to produce them in India.

This is the key point. We could not grow our manufacturing because Chinese companies using scale and CCP subsidies would always make it economically not viable to produce in India. We need to block their access to our market. This makes it viable for companies to produce in India.

The Chinese used the same tactics..

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby amar_p » 02 Jul 2020 19:15


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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Mollick.R » 02 Jul 2020 22:51

Ashokk wrote:TikTok may challenge government ban in court
TikTok is considering legal options against the ban on the Chinese-owned video-sharing platform in India, two lawyers with direct knowledge of the matter said. It held discussions with a Mumbai-based law firm on Tuesday on how the govt ban could be challenged in courts, they said.


Looks like as of now they they have given up the idea.
But why so ???
1. Cold shoulder given & red eyes shown by the babus during yesterday's meeting ???

2. Unable to hire good team of lawyers ???? (Former Attorney General and Senior Advocate Mukul Rohatgi denied to appear for them, Abhishek Manu Singvi also refused to do same + as per twiiter chatter several other lawyers/law firms also refused to do same.)

3. As 59 Chinese apps were banned by Ministry of IT, under Section 69A of the Information Technology Act, citing threat to its sovereignty, security clause, it may be very difficult for TikTok to get a favourable decision even at least a temporary stay order from judiciary.

Considering death of 20 soldiers at galwan valley & prevailing mood of nation no judge will like to go againsts GOI decision. So knocking doors of judiciary will not yield any results, rather that will make babus & MAD more angry & may make it even difficult for them to seek a come back few months or years down the line (considering they have such a chance to begin with).



TikTok not going to legally challenge the ban order
By Anumeha Chaturvedi, ET Bureau|Last Updated: Jul 02, 2020, 06.57 PM IST

New Delhi: ByteDance owned TikTok is not going to legally challenge the government's ban of the app, people familiar with the developments said.

"There have been statements in the press concerning the possibility that TikTok might pursue legal action regarding the directive by the Government of India. It has no plans to pursue such action," a source familiar with matters said.

Economic Times Article Link

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/not-going-to-legally-challenge-the-ban-order-tiktok/articleshow/76750861.cms

darshan
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 02 Jul 2020 23:16

Not that anyone believes in chinese judicial system.

Is it easy for an international firm to find a good law firm within china?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby Mollick.R » 03 Jul 2020 00:49

darshan wrote:Not that anyone believes in chinese judicial system.

Is it easy for an international firm to find a good law firm within china?


@Darshan jee, i think you replaced India with China. By mistake.

Here we are talking about TikTok (China) going through Indian Judiciary system to challenge/remove the ban.
& facing roadblocks in hiring good lawyers at India (this 2nd part is a hypothesis only) not vice versa.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby nam » 03 Jul 2020 02:36

They won't pursue because it is no brainier that no foreign company can win a case, when they are been banned on National Security grounds.

Only citizens can challenge a such a ban, but here it is a foreign owned company. So there is no chance.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby darshan » 03 Jul 2020 02:47

Mollick.R wrote:
darshan wrote:Not that anyone believes in chinese judicial system.

Is it easy for an international firm to find a good law firm within china?


@Darshan jee, i think you replaced India with China. By mistake.

Here we are talking about TikTok (China) going through Indian Judiciary system to challenge/remove the ban.
& facing roadblocks in hiring good lawyers at India (this 2nd part is a hypothesis only) not vice versa.

Mollick ji
Unless you're being sarcastic, I did have it correct. I brought up the question to make a point that in China a foreign company may not win any case in a kangaroo court and one may not even be able to find a firm that will faithfully fight the case on your behalf.

I'm sure that there are lot of people that will try to spin the case as how tiktok wasn't being represented due to patriotism and govt pressure compared to tiktok not having any standing to begin with.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 03 Jul 2020 03:17

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... e-a-force/
Retired and hurt PLA veterans could become a force against the Chinese Communist Party regime
What country does not even acknowledge the martyrdom of its uniformed soldiers at its borders, let alone pay them a respectable last homage? It is China, which reels under the fear that the admittance that it had lost troops, that too more in number than its opponent, could lead to such major trouble and domestic unrest, that the very regime of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) could be put at stake.

At the root of this fear is the simmering resentment running in the hearts and minds of 57 million veterans of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA).

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 03 Jul 2020 04:30

Mollick.R wrote:
darshan wrote:Not that anyone believes in chinese judicial system.

Is it easy for an international firm to find a good law firm within china?


@Darshan jee, i think you replaced India with China. By mistake.

Here we are talking about TikTok (China) going through Indian Judiciary system to challenge/remove the ban.
& facing roadblocks in hiring good lawyers at India (this 2nd part is a hypothesis only) not vice versa.


good lawyers are available but none of them are willing to take up a chinese company's case against the GoI under these circumstances.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby vimal » 03 Jul 2020 05:12

pankajs wrote:https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/29/retired-and-hurt-pla-veterans-could-become-a-force/
Retired and hurt PLA veterans could become a force against the Chinese Communist Party regime
What country does not even acknowledge the martyrdom of its uniformed soldiers at its borders, let alone pay them a respectable last homage? It is China, which reels under the fear that the admittance that it had lost troops, that too more in number than its opponent, could lead to such major trouble and domestic unrest, that the very regime of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) could be put at stake.

At the root of this fear is the simmering resentment running in the hearts and minds of 57 million veterans of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA).

:eek: I am shocked at the way China treats it's veteran. It is indeed the CCP and its cronies who control everything including the resources.

If this is the treatment meted out by the CCP regime to the martyrs of today, imagine the plight of PLA veterans, many of whom had participated in the bloody 1979 Sino-Vietnamese War or the Korean War. They have been holding frequent mass protests across China for years now, hoping to shame the government into recognizing its obligation toward those who battled along the country’s borders in the past.

All they seek is better health care, pensions and jobs, as a mark of due gratitude for their service to the nation. Shockingly however, the country which has the world’s largest army, does not have a central agency to administer pensions and other benefits to its veterans. Resultantly, they are forced to depend on local governments for pensions, medical care and other basic benefits.

However, due to wide disparity in the financial standings of the local governments, there is no standard or uniformity in what the veterans receive. After having given their youth and shed blood for the country, the veterans find themselves left by the CCP to the mercy of often corrupt local officials, making them feel like “donkeys slaughtered after they are too old to work a grindstone.”

The ever-increasing veterans’ protests across the country alerted the CCP’s central leadership to take note and adopt corrective measures, lest it leads to widespread organized dissent and social unrest. In April 2018, the Chinese government inaugurated the first-ever Ministry of Veteran Affairs tasked with establishing a centralized system and policies on veteran affairs, including helping former military personnel find jobs.

However, there is still no clarity on who will pay them their benefits, and reemployment woes have only increased given PRC President Xi Jinping’s 2015 decision to majorly downsize and reorganize the army by cutting 300,000 posts.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby ricky_v » 03 Jul 2020 09:59

Image
https://smallcaps.com.au/china-counterfeit-gold-scandal-wuhan-kingold-jewelry-fake-bars-loans/
One of China’s largest gold jewellery manufacturers, Wuhan-based and NASDAQ-listed Kingold Jewelry, is being accused of depositing fake gold bars as collateral to obtain loans from 14 Chinese financial institutions.

The 83 tonnes of gold were purportedly valued at 20.6 billion yuan (A$4.2 billion) but many of them have turned out to be gilded copper, according to reports from Beijing.

More info
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/Mystery-of-2bn-of-loans-backed-by-fake-gold-in-China
The case holds echoes of China's largest gold-loan fraud case, unfolding since 2016 in the northwest Shaanxi province and neighboring Hunan. Regulators found adulterated gold bars in 19 lenders' coffers backing 19 billion yuan of loans. In one case, a lender seeking to melt gold collateral found black tungsten plate in the middle of the bars.

In the case of Kingold, the company said it took out loans against gold to supplement its cash holdings, support business operations and expand gold reserves, according to public records.
In 2018, the company beat a number of competitors bidding to buy a controlling stake in state-owned auto parts maker Tri-Ring Group. Kingold offered 7 billion yuan in cash for 99.97% of Tri-Ring. The Hubei government cited the deal as a model of so-called mixed-ownership reform, which seeks to invite private shareholders into state-owned enterprises. But Kingold has faced problems taking over Tri-Ring's assets amid a series of corruption probes and disputes involving Tri-Ring.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby samirdiw » 03 Jul 2020 10:20

m_saini wrote:To be honest, it's us who're not particularly sharp. They've always undermined us at every opportunity and worked against our interests while we foolishly let the trade deficit to get to the present levels. We didn't do this after Doklam so no reason for them to think it we would do it now. But kudos to Modiji's gov to prove them wrong.


Better late than never. It will take a brave person to admit they were wrong and go about rectifying it.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 03 Jul 2020 12:13

https://twitter.com/RepRickCrawford/sta ... 2363557897
Rep Rick Crawford @RepRickCrawford

This amendment would prevent companies owned or controlled by the Chinese regime or the Chinese Communist Party from participating in any project or recieving any funds authorized by this bill. #China #MyWayOrTheHighway

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1278729272010706946
ANI @ANI

US Congress passes sanctions over Hong Kong rights, targeting banks: AFP news agency #China
Will hit the Chinese banks as also HSBC and Standard Charted that explicitly backed the Chinese government on Hong Kong but also others.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 03 Jul 2020 13:45

https://twitter.com/stephendziedzic/sta ... 5560715266
Thread. Australia's defence minister @lindareynoldswa is taking questions at @ASPI_org after giving a speech on the government's new defence strategy. She says Australia is willing to do more "heavy lifting" in the region by boosting its capabilities 1/

Interesting. Reynolds says she is working on establishing a new "trilateral exercise" with Australia, India and Indonesia. Naval exercises? It's not clear.
For those following closely I’ve gone back, checked the tape. Odd phrasing, but seems to be a clear reference to a potential India-Indonesia-Australia naval exercise: “I’m now an interlocutor for India with Indonesia to start up a new trilateral maritime exercise series” 8/

Indonesia is the key state along the Chinese approaches to India ocean. Getting them on board for intel on Chinese naval movement would be a good step forward.

With advance warning on approach by Indonesia and Indo-US-Australian TechInt, we could potentially track every Chinese deployment in the IOR region the moment it enters the Indonesian waters.

Submarine tracking too would become much easier by installing passive sensors in the Indonesian waters around the limited approaches to IOR.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby pankajs » 03 Jul 2020 13:56

Seems like our decision makers are finally shedding their reticence ... about time.

https://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-l ... na-2830625
Ladakh face-off fallout: India to strengthen maritime alliance against China
Strengthening of a maritime alliance in the Indian Ocean region, led by India, is likely to be one of the fallouts of Chinese combativeness in the region.

The details of the plan are still in the works but could include countries impacted by Chinese belligerence in the South China sea.

The alliance will not only help maintain balance in the Indo-Pacific region but comes even as QUAD grouping - consisting of Japan, US, India and Australia - is expected to gain strength.

In contrast to Atlantic or the Pacific ocean, the Indian ocean is not an open one and entry into it is via straits like Strait of Malacca. India could use its maritime capability by deploying warships near the Malacca Strait, China’s jugular vein – to signal to the Chinese leadership that it means business.

India has been an active player of the 22 members strong IORA -- Indian Ocean Rim Association. The grouping consists of countries which share a boundary with the Indian ocean and expected to be more vocal on illegal fishing by Chinese vessels in the region.

New Delhi has been engaging with Individual countries as well, from recently announced the Comprehensive Strategic Partnership between Australia and India to maritime exercises with the Japanese in the Indian ocean.
Looks like QUAD plus ... Key from Indian pov is Indonesia/Australia/US/India co-operation to tackle the Chinese in the IOR.

This will make the Gilgit/Baltisthan even more valuable for China militarily.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby SSridhar » 03 Jul 2020 14:57

The immediate signalling that India can do is to include the RAN in the upcoming Ex. Malabar.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby chetak » 03 Jul 2020 15:11

SSridhar wrote:The immediate signalling that India can do is to include the RAN in the upcoming Ex. Malabar.


the aussies come with their own long entrenched anti India mindset as well as a deeply ingrained racist bias.

These issues need to be sorted out quickly before we let in such "europeans".

The cheeni are deeply entrenched in the body politic of australia as well as in the business and academia.

data security would definitely be a worrying problem.

make haste certainly but do it slowly and thoroughly.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)

Postby RKumar » 03 Jul 2020 15:23

Trump spotted a pattern in China’s standoff with India. Here are 21 reasons Credit: Shishir Gupta, Hindustan Times, New Delhi

I think this post should be added to the first page of all China-related pages. Copied here in full, sorry Admins

India-China standoff: Xi Jinping’s stance in Ladakh fits in the larger pattern of its approach in dealing with its neighbours.

Xi Jinping’s China has territorial disputes with 20 more countries, not just India over Ladakh

President Donald Trump on Thursday waded right in the middle of India’s dispute with China, asserting that Beijing’s aggressive stance in Ladakh fits with the larger pattern of Chinese aggression in other parts of the world. President Trump’s office did not elaborate on China’s aggression elsewhere but is seen as a clear reference to Beijing’s efforts to enlarge its position on border disputes. US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had recently called it China’s “rogue attitude” as he announced the movement of US supercarriers in the Indo Pacific region to counter China’s aggressive posture.

According to Beijing watchers, China has traditionally suffered from xenophobia against foreigners. The Middle Kingdom’s fears were exacerbated in the past two centuries as a result of which China believes that it is the only civilizational power in the world and the rest are either tributary states or barbarians.

China has had territorial disputes with 21 neighbours including India over its claims on land and sea. Here is a complete list of its disputes.

Brunei

China claims the southern part of the Spratly Islands chain. Brunei, on the other hand, claims part of South China Sea nearest to it as part of its continental shelf and Exclusive Economic Zone

Philippines

China and Philippines disagree over parts of the South China Sea including the Spratly Islands. Philippines took the dispute to the International Court of Justice where they won the case but the Chinese side did not abide by the order of the ICJ. Tensions have continued between the two countries despite economic incentives offered by China.

Indonesia

China’s nine-dash line overlaps the Natuna Sea/Exclusive Economic Zone of Indonesia leading to disputes. China claims fishing rights in waters near the islands. Indonesia government argues that China’s claims are not recognised under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. Indonesia irked China in July 2017 when it renamed parts of the South China Sea as North Natuna Sea to underscore its claim.

Malaysia

China’s dispute with Malaysia also revolves around parts of the South China Sea, particularly the Spratly Islands. Its claims cover only islands included in its Exclusive Economic Zone of 200 miles as defined by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Malaysia has a military presence on three such islands that it considers to be part of the continental shelf.

Singapore

Singapore is not a claimant state in the South China Sea disputes but is closely aligned to the United States and allows the presence of US naval forces in Singaporean waters. It does not want to antagonise China by openly taking sides though it does advocate freedom of navigation and resolution of all disputes in line with the UN Convention of Law of the Seas.

Laos

China claims large areas of Laos on historical precedent of China’s Yuan Dynasty during 1271-1368

Cambodia

China has, on occasions, claimed part of the country on historical precedent (China’s Ming dynasty 1368-1644)

Thailand

Thailand opposes China’s dredging on the Mekong River since 2001 for large ships to carry goods from its landlocked Yunnan province to ports in Thailand, Laos and remaining southeast Asia. China has also built hydropower dams on the main stream of the Mekong River, altering the natural flood-drought cycle, affecting ecosystems as well as economies of countries on the lower Mekong River.

The Thai Cabinet scrapped a Chinese-led dredging project in February 2020 to blast rapids on the Mekong river. This had already led to fall in water levels and fers that it would lead to drought and affect 6 million people in Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam

Japan

Japan’s dispute with China centers around South China Sea, particularly Senkaku Islands, Ryukyu Islands and the overlapping Air Defence Identification Zone and Exclusive Economic Zone in the East China Sea

Vietnam

Vietnam, which fought a bloody war with China in 1979 when Beijing tried to teach its former ally a lesson, has stood its ground on its territorial claims over parts of the South China Sea, and the Macclesfield Bank, Paracel Islands and the Spratly Islands. Last month, a Chinese ship rammed a Vietnamese fishing boat operating in the Paracel Islands that was seen as an effort by Beijing to flex muscles to enforce a unilateral fishing ban in parts of the South China Sea against vessels from another nation.

India

China occupies 38,000 sq km Indian territory in the Aksai Chin region apart from staking claim on Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh. It was this expansionist policy that led to the ongoing standoff between the Indian Army and the Chinese PLA that escalated into a violent scrap in Ladakh’s Galwan valley. Another 5,163 sq km of Shaksgam valley was illegally ceded by Pakistan to China in 1963. Hence, the total Indian territory occupied by China is over 43 ,000 sq km.

Nepal

Nepal and China have pending border issues over three boundary pillars in Dolakha and two in the vicinity of Mt Everest. There have, however, been reports that China has illegally occupied strategic land at 12 places across Nepal. China has also claimed part of Nepal dating back to the Sino-Nepalese war in 1788-1792, claiming that some parts of Nepal are part of Tibet and therefore, part of China.

Taiwan

China claims all of Taiwan but particular disputes are Macclesfield Bank, Paracel Islands Scarborough Shoal, part of South China Sea and the Spratly Islands. The Paracel Islands, also called Xisha Islands in zvietnamese, is a group of islands in the South China Sea whose sovereignty is disputed.

North Korea

The two countries have a continuing dispute over Mount Paektu and Yalu and Tuman rivers. China has also claimed Baekhu Mountain and Jiandao. Beijing has, on occasions, claimed all of North Korea on historical grounds (Yuan Dynasty 1271-1368)

South Korea

South Korea and China have an overlapping Air Defence Identification Zone and a continuing Exclusive Economic Zone dispute over Leodo (Socotra Rock) in the East China Sea. China has also, on occasions, claimed entire South Korea on historical grounds (Yuan Dynasty 1271-1368)

Mongolia

China and Mongolia have settled their boundary dispute but China has claimed all of Mongolia on historical precedent (Yuan Dynasty 1271-1368).

Bhutan

Bhutanese enclaves in Tibet, namely Cherkip, Gompa, Dho, Dungmar, Gesur, Gezon, Itse Gompa, Khochar, Nyanri, Ringung, Sanmar, Tarchen and Zuthulphuk. Bhutan has lost a substantial chunk of area under dispute including the Kula Kangri peak to slow encroachments by China. Beijing claims Kula Kangri and mountainous areas to the west of this peak in addition to the western Haa district of Bhutan.

Tajikistan

The two sides have a bilateral dispute dating back to 1884 when a border demarcation agreement between the Qing Dynasty and Tsarist Russia left large segments of the frontier in the sparsely-populated eastern Pamirs without a clear definition.

The Chinese claims are based on historical precedent (Qing Dynasty 1644-1912).

In 1991, Tajikistan inherited from the Soviet Union three disputed border segments constituting about 28,000 sq km which China and the Soviet Union had been unable to resolve.

In 1999, Tajikistan and China signed a border demarcation agreement defining the border in two of the three segments. Under this deal, Tajikistan ceded about 200 sw km lands to China. In 2002, Tajikistan agreed to cede 1,122 sq km or about four percent of the territory that Beijing had claimed. China has, in all, settled for 3.5 per cent of the claimed territory.

Kazakhstan

China has laid claim to a territory in Kazakhstan stretching from Semirechie to Lake Balkhash covering 34,000 sq km. In May 2020, a Chinese website ‘Sohu.com’ published an article claiming that Kazakhstan is located on territories that historically belong to China.

China has settled for 22 per cent of its claim over Kazakh territory. Despite a border demarcation treaty with China in 1994 and claim by Kazakh state media that the Kazakhstan government had succeeded in retaining 56.9 percent of the disputed territory, critics had opined that the remaining 43.1 per cent of the land also belonged to Kazakhstan for which a new deal should be signed.

Kyrgyzstan

China lays claim to the whole of Kyrgyz territory. In May 2020, Chinese website tutiao.com published an article on such a claim and argued that under the Han Dynasty, the entire Kyrgyz territory was part of the Chinese mainland before the Russian empire captured it.

Chia has settled for 32 percent of its claim over Kyrgyz territory. Under the 1999 agreement, Kyrgyzstan handed over 1,250 sq km to China.

Russia

Despite signing bilateral agreements in 1991 and 1994 to delimit the estern and wester section of the Russia-China border, a few sectors remain unresolved. There are 160,000 sq km still unilaterally claimed by China despite signing several agreements.

In October 2004, the 4,300 sq border was finally demarcated in its entirety, thus resolving a 300-year-old territorial dispute.

In 2005, the Russian Parliament ratified the agreement in 2008, a part of the Abagaitu Islet, the entire Tarabarov Bolshoi Ussuriysk Island and some adjacent river islets were handed over to China.


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