Understanding the US - Again

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chola
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chola » 05 Jun 2019 08:16

g.sarkar wrote:
chola wrote:DT is an ethnic German. In fact, the US white population has more German than English for ethnic origin. Irish comes in third.

Cholaji,
DT is not ethnic German. He is American. If you cannot speak Punjabi, you are not a Punjabi. If you cannot speak Bengali, you are not a Bengali. You could say that Henry Kissinger was a German Jew. But there is not much of Drumf left in Trump, except perhaps his genes.
Gautam


If you understand US racial politics, there is always some reverence to the old country. Many American Far Right and White Rights groups are enamored with Germany. Third Reich collectables are big in the American Midwest where the whites are majority German descent. (Though they less likely than say the Irish in NYC and New England to display the flag of the Fatherland.)

Now Jews? The racial politics is heavy and unmistakable. Jews are pro-Israel. There is no if or buts about it.

But they are whites. A Punjabi or any other brown folk would have less leeway to pull for his Motherland. "If India/Mexico/Botswana is so great, then why the f*#$ are you here?"

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby EswarPrakash » 05 Jun 2019 10:41

hanumadu wrote:I avoided watching the idiot (Hasan Minhaj) so far. But I might just watch it now and enjoy some schadenfreude.


Tried that. Switched off after 5 mins of ingratiating "coconut" flavoured lame comedy

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 05 Jun 2019 15:05

g.sarkar wrote:Mortji,
May I add that while DT may want Germany to spend more on national defense, no one (Russia, France, UK, Poland, Greece, the Balkans and all other West European nations that were under Germany in WWII) wants a militarily stronger Germany. This is still taboo in Europe. German economic high handedness in EU is resented but accepted as a necessary evil, but its resurgence militarily will not be tolerated by anyone. Most Germans I have talked to tell me that inside EU Germany has achieved all that Hitler could have achieved, but peacefully and in a democratic manner. Frankly speaking even the US does not want a militarily strong Germany. So, while DT may want Germany to spend more, Germany can not without weakening the EU. EU is a weak organization and its weakness will grow as the US declines and unable to provide the degree of security it has provided since WWII.
Gautam


Gautamji,

The rise of Germany would not be in a vaccuum, but rather envision a 4th Reich which would be the EU countries of France, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, Czech Republic, Hungary and Italy. These would be the white Christian non-Slavic countries responsible for their security. DT wants the rise of white Christian nationalism. On the eastern part of Europe he wants the white Christian nationalists of Russia to be the head of the Slavic peoples. White power would then become a counterweight to a rising Asia. So far only Russia is following through on this ideology and is why DT is sympathetic to them. A US president’s time is limited to 8 years, but if DT can get the ball rolling in this direction, the US MiC and it’s political power structure will crack, which will allow true White nationalists to enter these sanctums established by the Ivy League neo-liberal and neo-conservatives who occupy and control it now. However, this is a bridge too far for one POTUS, especially for one who is so mercurial, and the American power structure is already at odds with DT. That said, I do wish him success as he will shake up the corrupt US political system.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Singha » 05 Jun 2019 15:56

another sordid little saga of the WW2 jim crow era
black GIs who had pregnant white british girlfriends and wanted to marry were denied permission by officials

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/05/euro ... index.html

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Jun 2019 01:54

I have been reading about the plight of the security guard at the Florida school where there was a mass shooting. He was suspended, fired (actually the guy was so close to retiring that he retired) and now charged with FELONY "Child Endagerment" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NRA lynchmob. The underlying thread here is that the NRA idiots will not agree that the problem was nuts collecting weapons with impunity. According to them the only problem is that MORE nuts don't FIRE their weapons.
Had he gone in, there was a 50% chance that his shots would have hit victims - and 95% chance that he would be killed. Instead it looks like he called for backup support. May be less than "herrowic" sure, but FELONY? CHILD ENDAGERMENT?
Reduces my respect for the judiciary: they should have thrown out the arrest warrent with prejudice and jailed the prosecutor.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Shwetank » 06 Jun 2019 03:37

Mort Walker wrote:The rise of Germany would not be in a vaccuum, but rather envision a 4th Reich which would be the EU countries of France, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, Czech Republic, Hungary and Italy. These would be the white Christian non-Slavic countries responsible for their security. DT wants the rise of white Christian nationalism. On the eastern part of Europe he wants the white Christian nationalists of Russia to be the head of the Slavic peoples. White power would then become a counterweight to a rising Asia. So far only Russia is following through on this ideology and is why DT is sympathetic to them. A US president’s time is limited to 8 years, but if DT can get the ball rolling in this direction, the US MiC and it’s political power structure will crack, which will allow true White nationalists to enter these sanctums established by the Ivy League neo-liberal and neo-conservatives who occupy and control it now. However, this is a bridge too far for one POTUS, especially for one who is so mercurial, and the American power structure is already at odds with DT. That said, I do wish him success as he will shake up the corrupt US political system.

Can you explain why this is a good thing for Indians, as you wish him success?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 06 Jun 2019 04:04

chola wrote:If you understand US racial politics, there is always some reverence to the old country. Many American Far Right and White Rights groups are enamored with Germany. Third Reich collectables are big in the American Midwest where the whites are majority German descent. (Though they less likely than say the Irish in NYC and New England to display the flag of the Fatherland.)
Now Jews? The racial politics is heavy and unmistakable. Jews are pro-Israel. There is no if or buts about it.
But they are whites. A Punjabi or any other brown folk would have less leeway to pull for his Motherland. "If India/Mexico/Botswana is so great, then why the f*#$ are you here?"

We are here because you were there! But seriously, no one asks me why I am here in the US. They did this in Germany. Whatever Americans think of India (not much I am afraid) they certainly know of the success of Indian doctors, IT professionals and Motel owners in the US.
I brought up HK only because he still speaks broken German, no other reason. DT on the other hand does not speak German and is cut off from German culture. You are right, Hitler is loved by the White groups here. But Hitler called Americans "a mongrel race" due to the mixing of races here. He also called Poles and Russians low race (Niederrassen), fit for counting till 10 and helping German settlers cut wood or carry water. US Neo-Nazis forget this and consider these races white.
My last contribution on this topic as it may be considered OT.
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby saip » 06 Jun 2019 04:45

That security guard in Florida is only guilty of perjury if at all. They can not say cowardice is a crime.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Jun 2019 07:03

And surely Failure To Act and Earn One's Pay cannot be a crime or all 500 COTUS types and most of SDOTUS would be in jail.
What perjury? He's not given any evidence after swearing to tell whole truth etc. Lying to EphBeeEye puts him in the same league as (never mind).

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 06 Jun 2019 09:50

UlanBatori wrote:And surely Failure To Act and Earn One's Pay cannot be a crime or all 500 COTUS types and most of SDOTUS would be in jail.
What perjury? He's not given any evidence after swearing to tell whole truth etc. Lying to EphBeeEye puts him in the same league as (never mind).

Ulanbatoriji,
In our training as Peace Officers we were required to always call for help and wait for back up to arrive, even if someone's life was in danger, the only exception was if one of our own was in trouble. We always had a written plan for all kinds of emergencies, and we were told never to stick our necks out and do any thing that is not in the procedure. If the gentleman followed the procedure and the training he received, he is completely safe from any legal action. Logically, armed with a hand gun they can not ask him to face automatic weapon. He may be now lynched in the public opinion, but that is a different story.
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Prasad » 06 Jun 2019 11:18

Anti-semitism has a very long history in europe and it is still present today. Even last week there was a report that it is again on the rise in germany. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48411735
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/maga ... rmany.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/worl ... itism.html
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/06/04/ala ... ism-europe
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germ ... SKCN1SK1QX

Merchant of venice only brought out what was already in practice.

A strong germany is feared though everyone wants their money to fund all sorts of things in the EU. Trump in the end is predictable in the sense that all his bluster is to ensure greater market access for america, lesser american spending for "others' causes". If the EU shows that he'll be happy.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 06 Jun 2019 12:26

Prasadji,
Please see this on youtude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqJS0H7ppAA&t=573s, Why Israelis like to travel to India?
The commentator says that if a jew walks 100m in a European city and is recognizable as a jew, he is assaulted. Certainly news to me.
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ArjunPandit » 06 Jun 2019 14:20

^^i thought its the cold weather of manali and cannabis.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Jun 2019 16:57

g.sarkar wrote: In our training as Peace Officers we were required to always call for help and wait for back up to arrive, even if someone's life was in danger, the only exception was if one of our own was in trouble. We always had a written plan for all kinds of emergencies, and we were told never to stick our necks out and do any thing that is not in the procedure. (no he is not safe, obviously - the Oiseule Hon. Prosecutor was not deterred, and the poor guy is in jail). Logically, armed with a hand gun they can not ask him to face automatic weapon. He may be now lynched in the public opinion, but that is a different story.


The above items have not appeared even in Opinion Pieces!! In fact this calls for a massive anti-NRA movement, citing the treason of the "arm everyone" mob. Unfortunately the NRA knows that
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American Public

and are utterly cynical as they build mob fury to hide their own guilt.

What you have written is exactly what I would have expected. A "Peace Aphsar" , let alone an old School Guard, would **NOT** be asked to charge in and start shooting in a hall filled with terrified children. He WAS expected to call for help first. But I have been utterly shocked to see this not even mentioned, particular on the loudmouth portals such as CNN.

Point to note is that the mob pressure to lynch this poor guy, comes not from the anti-gun, pro-peace Green Flower Children, but from the violent NRA. The theme as I pointed out is that they want to head off any form of gun control, and insist that there should be more gunfights, like Dodge City.
When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Guns. Otherwise Every Cretin Can Have One.

In Dodge City (Supreme HQ has watched every episode of Marshal Dillon) it is so clear that the life expectancy of the Marshall is measured in minutes after wearing The Badge, unless he is able to outshoot the assassins every time.
Point is, though all the denizens wear guns, not a single one comes to the aid of the Marshal (except for his Deputy maybe).
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby saip » 06 Jun 2019 20:14

Prior to Columbine (?) or another mass shooting the SOP was to wait for the SWAT or backup. But then it changed. Now the SOP is supposed to be to go in immediately and try to confront the gunmen. But still a Police Officer not going in can not be charged with a crime. Perjury is one of the offenses he was charged with. If everything else fails (which is very likely) they can stick it to him and pat themselves on their back on the job 'well done'. Gun ccntrol? Forgetabboutit.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 06 Jun 2019 21:57

Karthik S wrote:
Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:Before that time, if the Saudis et al. begin to price their petroleum in Euros (or another currency); that'll be the early death of the USD.


Wasn't Saddam trying to do the same, it probably being main reason for GW1?



Karthik S, Yes, that's right. Saddam in his 'thrashing about' had threatened to price Iraqi crude in Euros, and this was often mentioned as his final affront to Unkil; though by that time, the run-up to GW1 was already well in motion. (Remember US Ambassador to Iraq, one "April Glaspie" basically OKed Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, which only became the causus belli after Margaret Thatcher pointed-out to GWB how much banking the Kuwaitis do in the UK, and wouldn't he like a taste?)



UlanBatori wrote:I know there is a whole CT tribe and legend around this, but if country X wants to buy oil from Country Y I see no reason why they can't do that by barter, or whatever.


This presupposes that there is the possibility for balanced trade between two partners; which is rather the unicorn type of situation, frankly.

India requires petroleum, and only produces so much other stuffs for export, and of these things, a smaller subset will have demand in that vendor nation that exports petroleum. These folks would rather take "legal tender" means of exchange, so they can buy Rolex and Tissot watches, etc.



saip wrote:Prior to Columbine (?) or another mass shooting the SOP was to wait for the SWAT or backup. But then it changed. Now the SOP is supposed to be to go in immediately and try to confront the gunmen. But still a Police Officer not going in can not be charged with a crime. Perjury is one of the offenses he was charged with. If everything else fails (which is very likely) they can stick it to him and pat themselves on their back on the job 'well done'. Gun ccntrol? Forgetabboutit.


You are correct, saip, there was and is an SOP, which changed with the commission of inquiry into the columbine massacre. While prior, the SOP was to cordon and wait for heavy/swat backup who would try first of all to negotiate and de-escalate; the new SOP post columbine has been to immediately confront the shooter (who will oftentimes even pop themselves at that moment), thus ending the bloodshed. Bottom-line: Immediately confront a shooter with deadly gunfire (no calling-out "POLICE!", and no shouted orders to "drop your weapon", just gunfire until the shooter is down-and-out). Vigilance over explosive threats is also SOP with school shooters, and this too came from columbine's example.

Here's the facts of this situation, folks: The officer in question did swear an oath and assume a duty. His being there and drawing that salary, effectively kept someone else from being there in his stead. In a way, the case can be made that he took the job under false pretenses. That argument will come-up in court, no doubt. Certainly, there are hundreds of folks in that school district, who today would have wished to be there in his stead that day, because all of them are certain that they would have gone in guns-blazing and shot only the correct person (arguably a long-shot proposition). I haven't followed this case very closely, so I am still foggy on where the perjury charge arises, but he is going to have to run the gauntlet for having did and not done certain things that fateful day.

Something perhaps not everyone appreciates as they try to grapple with "Understanding the US -- Again"...... (Apparently, it takes a Canadian to point this out....). THE POLITICAL REALITY in the United States, is shaped by many things, but it is most tightly framed in their "Political System". Most people reading this will not grasp my meaning without tight explanation, so bear with me. This failure to grasp this political reality, is based on two cognitive failings which must be illuminated and clarified before proceeding to the explanation.

1. Most Americans have no idea how other countries function, so they assume things are done elsewhere, the way they're done in America; but that's only if they've given it any thought. Most Americans haven't given "it" any thought, because they've always been sufficiently assured that America's ways are best and that everyone outside of America wishes they were there. Remember: Only 36% of Americans hold a passport. Americans are by-and-large, a navel-gazing society, always looking inward. The evening news in the US is essentially US-centric in the extreme. When they cover the Olympics, they're only covering the American athletes (and if all the Americans crap-out of an event, chances of them showing the finals are near-zero). For this reason, Americans can't really explain their situation or system, because it's all they know. They have no basis for comparison, and cannot explain things they've always taken for granted, and barely notice even though they're "in it", 24/7. Just like they say: A fish can't describe water, because it's all the fish knows.

2. Most people outside of America have no real idea how the Americans "conduct themselves", because all that comes-across is the pop culture, the wealth and the foreign policy. As a result, most people outside of the United States, who try to explain to others about the United States, make facile and ill-informed expressions of often baseless opinions, not knowing what they don't know.

What do I mean?

I mean that the United States has a long history of handling police officers in a certain way that serves many interests at the same time.

The fact that this Parkland high school resource officer was going to face a severe charge, was a fait accompli. Police officers are always "over charged" so that it looks to the public as though the prosecutor is "hard" or "tough" or "serious", but by the time this harsh charge gets to the jury, the jury will be instructed carefully the legal predicates that constitute the charge, and the jury will probably come to the conclusion that the officer's actions/inactions didn't amount to all that, and they'll either be found guilty of a lesser charge, or entirely let-off.

This is the trope.

This is how it's done, in America.

Recognize: In the United States, ****UNLIKE*** in any other country in the world, "Prosecutors" (aka "District Attorneys") are political offices! These folks run for election! INCREDIBLY, so do many "Sherrifs" (aka "Police Chiefs"), which are also political offices! Believe it or not: So are the judges! Judges run for office and are voted-onto the bench, even if they're not even lawyers! Perhaps worst of all (though it's hard to say for sure, which part of this politicized mess is worse), even "Coroners" are ***elected officials*** who may have no medical training whatsoever, let alone a pathology specialization after an MD.

Americans think having all of these positions as elected positions, makes America the "Greatest Democracy in the World", but that's bat$hit crazy toa Canadian, who expects ***professionalization*** in all of these critical domains. Americans think everyone votes for their Sheriff, even though nobody else in the world does. Same for prosecutors and same for judges. I have no idea why anyone would think a Coroner should be an elected position; there are literally goofballs who determine 'cause of death' and can made a murder disappear or pin a natural death on someone as a murder.

Americans actually think it's "Democratic" to have their racialized mob-rule entrenched into the legal system -- all you've gotta do is vote-in the tough-as-nails judge to keep them __________ under; and he'll put down anyone the Sherriff rounds-up.

When a police officer does something wrong or otherwise unavoidably questionable, it is SOP to "throw the book" at him and especially to over-charge them with crimes that won't stick upon final judgement from the jury. Typical case in point, a traffic stop goes-wrong and the civilian gets killed. The "DA" (District Attorney, an elected position) will charge them with "First Degree Murder" aka "Capital Murder", and the community's outrage will be quenched by the heavy charge; but the jury will weigh how much "forethought and planning" went into the event; and will determine that it all happened too fast to constitute guilt of a premeditated murder -- and thus acquittal -- the blame for which will fall on the jury, but there's no retribution for them.

That's the trope. That's the song-and-dance. That's the way it always is. Everyone has to get reelected, and they've got a dance to perform for the crowds and the cameras.






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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Jun 2019 04:09

All true but to which the average American will ask innocently (as I once heard an American General ask at a meeting):
How many wars have the French and Canadians won, again with all that high knowledge and wisdom?

Red White and Blue: These colors don't run

Stand Your Ground!
(Florida law.)
Every homeowner must also own a gun
Law, Kennesaw City, Georgia (where Confederate General Stonewall Jackson Stonewalled and caused the pointless death of 20,000 southerners trying to stop dem Yankees of Gen. Sherman from overrunning Dera Scarlett Khan.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 07 Jun 2019 06:46

UlanBatori wrote:All true but to which the average American will ask innocently (as I once heard an American General ask at a meeting):
How many wars have the French and Canadians won, again with all that high knowledge and wisdom?

Red White and Blue: These colors don't run

Stand Your Ground!
(Florida law.)
Every homeowner must also own a gun
Law, Kennesaw City, Georgia (where Confederate General Stonewall Jackson Stonewalled and caused the pointless death of 20,000 southerners trying to stop dem Yankees of Gen. Sherman from overrunning Dera Scarlett Khan.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't know what point you're trying to make, in response to the numerous points I've offered above; so I'll take that as a non-response.

You seem ignorant of the fact that the Americans waited-out the first three years of WWI and the first four years of WWII, all the while "Trading with the Enemy" as various American industrialists armed the Germans.

To be sure, the Americans waded-in at the tail end of both wars; and made umpteem war movies depicting their winning of both wars, but ask yourself: By how much was America enlarged, territoriality, in either war? How much treasure did America seize? Answer: Zero square miles and all the flow-of-funds/treasure was outbound.

By any practical measure, WWII was won by Russia (which also suffered the greatest losses).

Subsequent to that.....

Korean War, a stalemate which persists.

Vietnam War, total loss.

I could go on, of course, to ask that American General how many wars did America win?

Don't try to call Grenada a war, it was mere pissant belligerence. As for red, white and blue "running", are you kidding me? Wasn't Haliburton supposed to be an Oil Major by now? [Pah-leeze!]

Americans may be very destructive in their conduct of warfare; but I see little evidence that they're ever able to secure a lasting peace.

Americans don't do "civilization building" any more, which is why they can't win and build anything durable out of their battlefield gains. Soon it'll be 18 years in Afghanistan; and they're getting ready to leave (at long last). Now ask yourself: How much of a mark will the Americans have left in Afghanistan, after 10 or 20 years from now? Answer: Nothing.

Even the Soviets, long-gone from Afghanistan; have left lasting infrastructure in that country that still benefits Afghans today. Americans? Zilch.

ADDED LATER.....

As for the French, don't I remember reading that 90% of the French electric supply is nuclear powered, and that uranium comes from French-owned or run mines in Africa? Yes, I know those are consortia with local partners; but no doubt, the French are confident in this supply; even though they have a fairly light footprint in Africa, in terms of French Army troopers. (Foreign Legion is another matter, and not the same, for useful reasons.)

Before the fall of Qaddafi, the French had even fewer troopers in Africa than they do now. Perhaps the French have a lesson or two to teach the Khans?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Jun 2019 16:38

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_WarThe French have always been gentle people with a LIGHT footprint in "their" Colonies: JUST as an example, in the Algerian War Of Independence, only
140,000 to 152,863 FLN soldiers, (4,300 Algerian from the FLN and MNA killed in metropolitan France), 25,600 French soldiers dead 65,000 wounded, 50,000 harkis (pro-france forces) killed or missing, 300,000 (including 55,000 to 60,000 civilians) Algerian casualties (well.. they don't count, do they), 2,000,000 Algerians resettled or displaced..


As S.o.S. Colin Powell said: "All that we have ever sought is 6 feet of soil to bury our soldiers who fought for your freedom". (other than access for our Insurance companies and Evanjelists to rip off ur ppl) So what I can conclude with a "Q.E.D." is that although America did not expand by one square inch as a result of all those wars (as poster r.k. so accurately pointed out above), and generally treated their former enemies as friends as long as one could make money, there are a lot of entities around the world who publish long, rambling barks and shrill whines of hatred against the USA.

Same as India in that respect. Q.E.D.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Jun 2019 17:28

ramana wrote:On role of West in spreading Wahabism

https://twitter.com/TarekFatah/status/1 ... 24292?s=19



I am blocked from seeing Tarik Fateh’s tweets. That “liberal” did not like my presenting him with this, as it contradicted something he was claiming about Kalat, Baluchistan.

http://thepartitionofindia.blogspot.com ... at-as.html

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Singha » 07 Jun 2019 18:34

murica has vast resources close at hand in alaska, canada, conus, mehico and south america. unlike european colonizers they did not need to go out and secure new lands for resources and land hungry settlers - america itself was the lebensraum for european overflow / refugees fleeing famine / adventurers etc. suitable hard working labour that could survive in the south was not available in europe much so was "brought over" from africa. likewise the railroads were built with hardworking chinese labour. now itivity is being helped by hardworking indo-chinese labour.

they did run some colonies by stealth like philippines and guam but for military reasons not the need to plunder some precious resources. hawaii was taken over at some point.

WW2 secured for murica
- its already existing lead since 1920s as the largest industrial power
- a flood of highly talented eu academics who found places in the universities - late stages of the war its STEM finally attained parity with UK and Germany and opened a huge gap in 1950s and 60s.
- security of europe its largest market
- control of the atlantic and pacific oceans
- betaaj badshah of the skies
- at a reasonable cost of around 416,000 lives? russia lost some 24 million soldiers & civilians. europe got bombed. british forced to give up colonies to american power. tiny greece and yugoslavia lost more people.
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/stude ... -world-war

in short 80% of the american effort was into STEM and industrial production , and 20% in the trenches and seas.

so murica lost some 50 times less lives than russia but ended up with ownership of europe, middle east, mediterranean, atlantic, pacific and phillipines and japan, plus all the richest countries in the world as the G8.

UlanBatori
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Jun 2019 19:49

OT here but just remembered. Wikimata says 87000 Indians died in WW2. I think that is a gross underestimate: count West plus Southeast Asia.
Any source for a better number pls? Also, how many Indians died due to hunger, feeding WW2?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby darshan » 07 Jun 2019 20:50

Yes. After reading the big headlines on Russians having highest number, what about Indians ( leading up to war, during war, and after)? Very selective counting. And probably nehru never got the correct counting done. One has to count all the places where resources for war were coming from and how Indians were involved.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Manish_P » 07 Jun 2019 21:01

87000 'Military' casualties Sir.

The civilian casualties/deaths are estimated at 1,500,000-2,500,000

Source - National WW2 Museum

Youtube



Edit - Saw post from Singha ji (with same source) after i posted this

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Jun 2019 23:42

Where does the 87000 count come from? The British are not likely to have counted fairly. Just El Alamein was 13000 + 5000 = 18000. MOST of that was "8th Indian Army" out of B'lore I believe. If you consider that El Alamein came at the very tail end of a long campaign of very heavy British losses..

Malaya: "By the time the Japanese had captured Singapore, they had suffered 9,657 casualties; Allied losses totaled 145,703, including 130,000 captured.[9][11]" MOST of those would have been Indian as well. Of 130,000 captured how many would have survived? I estimate maybe 10%. Many of the captured became Subhash Chandra Bose's Indian Army, which I think was almost totally annihilated.
Burma: 207,244. Not counting 1 million Burmese civilians.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ramana » 08 Jun 2019 01:03

I was listening to Market place yesterday and hear a strange fact.
The beef export and import trade is exactly the same between US and Mexico except the $ amount varies in the direction.

So US exports cattle to Mexico as the cost of raising them is cheaper there.
Then Mexico exports the bulked up cattle to US for slaughter.
Then US exports the non-fit for consumption to Mexico which eats all the other parts of the dead cattle as this fetches higher price than in US!

Strange mercantiles running both countries.

Also Mexico is the biggest US trading partner bigger than China in $ terms.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Jun 2019 01:04

The other side of "HE DID NOTHING!!" Black Muslim Immigrant Cop shoots white wimmens.

OK, the guy was a moron, but is there a law against that? He reacted like a true NRAmerican. Have gun, will shoot. PeaceMaker. Victim? Citizen who made the call to 911? yada yadayada. Shoot first, it pacifies everyone.

This was a classic case of American Policing as explained by PG Wodehouse many years ago. Except here the bullets struck flesh and bone. The charge should have been
Failure to Miss When Shooting as A Polis

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 08 Jun 2019 07:18

UlanBatori wrote:OT here but just remembered. Wikimata says 87000 Indians died in WW2. I think that is a gross underestimate: count West plus Southeast Asia.
Any source for a better number pls? Also, how many Indians died due to hunger, feeding WW2?


4 million civilians dead in Bengal alone from 1940-1944 due to famine caused by Churchill’s Active Denial Policy. It was ethnic cleansing. Read Madhushree Mukherhjee’s book “Churchill’s Secret War”. Western sources overlook this little fact.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Jun 2019 07:28

My estimate is 1 million Indian soldiers killed, plus about 7 million civilians. Very many people in Malaya and Burma and Singapore were Indians. The deaths were as much due to British action than Japanese/Italian/German. IMO Britain had very little actual British (as in natives of the british Isles) military personnel strength after the kill-off of WW1. So all those "british Army units" were actually manned by Indians and Nepalis. Everywhere you look, it was Indian personnel, whether in Iraq, or Southern Europe or North Africa, East Africa or Southeast Asia. While Indians were dying to protect the British Isles, the British were committing genocide in India.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Philip » 08 Jun 2019 08:20

Shocking that there was no Indian representation at the 75th. D-Day ceremonies.Why was India ignored? The Brits and Americans deliberately ignore the massive contribution of millions of Indian troops, pilots and sailors who fought in WW2 after doing the same earlier in WW1.Where have any great ceremonies been held for the Burma campaign? Ignored as it did't happen near Britain.Out of sight, out of mind.A war mainly between the yellow and brown races.Racism is still rampant today.The GOI should officially protest about this insult.

Time to also leave the colonial reminder called the Commonwealth with HM the Queen as head.The Non-Aligned movement is far more relevant today than a colonial club where the natives still genuflect to the white queen.

American bullying over Iranian oil and Russian weapons should be firmly resisted.We cannot show weakness and replace British colonialism for Yanqui servitude.Turkey a NATO member is showing the US the upturned finger over S-400 SAMs, India is a giant in comparison with Turkey and therefore cannot behave like a mouse.

PS: Past time to stop sending our kids to uber-expensive " Pox-ford and Bum-bridge" too. These institutions continue to subtly support racist superiority at the expense of foreign students especially from the sub- continent.There are excellent univs. in S'pore and Japan, Oz, Europe not to mention the US.Russia is a destination for med. students too.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Singha » 08 Jun 2019 08:36

why doesnt the indian army itself hold ceremonies to commemorate these days if it cares? invite the defence ministers of the allies :twisted:

nobody is going to give us our due unless we make noise and stand up for it.

D-day did not have any indian units involved. I am not sure if the V-day ceremony that marks the overall allied victory has any invite or acknowledgement of India. I am sure poodles like NZ and Aus and Canada are there.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby NRao » 08 Jun 2019 09:09

There was no "India" then. Which is why a precious, khandani jewel adorns a particular crown and a few tons of Indian gold lies in Fort Knox - which the US gratefully accepted as UK's payment for the cost of the war and the UK was very generous to pay their share with "Indian" gold.

The present-day UK, she was there, gave a few speeches too, represents the then "India".

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Jun 2019 11:47

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/turkey-gets-culled-from-us-defence-program-in-warning-sign-for-india/articleshow/69699113.cms

US has asked Turkish pilots to return from F-35 training and is going to stop Turkish manufacture of equipment, i.e Turkey was allowed to manufacture only what the US could manufacture easily.

Implications for India, Buy Apache's, M60R, P8I etc off the shelf from the US, keep the relations going with the US. But Fighter aircraft SAM's or anything you want to manufacture in India- it cant be american arms.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Jun 2019 16:20

This is sulkiness caused by Sultan buying Putin's S300 I think. Yesterdin there was a headline saying in essence: Turkey: Buy S300? No more F-35 for u. Which may of course be win-win. (sorry Brarji). $200M can buy an awful lot of S-300s plus UAVs plus a couple of Su-35s or Su-50s instead of one Try2Fly CellPhone Tower. BTW, y do u think same sulkiness won't affect Apache? India-genius production is the issue y r raising, I guess.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Singha » 08 Jun 2019 16:45

Nytimes

SAN FRANCISCO — The Chinese government this week summoned major tech companies from the United States and elsewhere to warn that they could face dire consequences if they cooperate with the Trump administration’s ban on sales of key American technology to Chinese companies, according to people familiar with the meetings.

Held on Tuesday and Wednesday, the meetings came soon after Beijing’s announcement that it was assembling a list of “unreliable” companies and individuals. That list was widely seen as a way of hitting back at the Trump administration for its decision to cut off Huawei, the Chinese electronics giant, from sales of American technology. The United States has accused Huawei of stealing trade secrets and conducting surveillance on behalf of Beijing.

Details about the meetings, the latest move in two weeks of high-stakes economic brinkmanship between the United States and China, were shared by two people familiar with them, who asked not to be named because they were not authorized to discuss them and could face retribution. The companies summoned by Chinese officials included a number of the world’s most important semiconductor firms, as well as other tech giants.

To those from the United States, they warned that the Trump administration’s move to cut off Chinese companies from American technology had disrupted the global supply chain, adding that companies that followed the policy could face permanent consequences. The Chinese authorities also hinted that firms should use lobbying to push back against the government’s moves.

The Chinese officials told companies from outside the United States that as long as they kept up their current relationships and continued to supply Chinese companies normally, they would face no adverse consequences.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Singha » 08 Jun 2019 16:46

So wuff wuff the dragon hath spoken and so the orange gorilla

We are approaching a new with us or against us singularity a new manthan

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jun 2019 07:45

Karma.

In an email to CNN, a spokesman for Oberlin College declined to comment on the verdict.
But Donica Thomas Varner, Oberlin vice president and general counsel {Probably an Oberlin grad and hence *&^&* incompetent}, wrote a letter to members of the Oberlin community.
"We are disappointed with the verdict and regret that the jury did not agree with the clear evidence our team presented," the letter said.
"Neither Oberlin College nor Dean Meredith Raimondo defamed a local business or its owners, and they never endorsed statements made by others. Rather, the College and Dr. Raimondo worked to ensure that students' freedom of speech was protected :roll: and that the student demonstrations were safe and lawful, and they attempted to help the plaintiffs repair any harm caused by the student's protests."
It's not clear whether Oberlin will appeal the costly verdict.
"Our team will review the jury's verdict and determine how to move forward," Varner :(( .


So why do I say this is Karma? For that we must go a long way back, to October 2001, to be precise.

1 month after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, English Prof. ***************** (a desi commie-EJ bibi) who was also a Bored-e-TRUSTY of the college, announced that the Bored would sponsor a Conference at Oberlin titled:
Siting Secularism in India

To this conference, despite the extreme rigors of international travel of that time, the major commies from India, France, other parts of Oirope, and the USA all came. The conference was.... look at the date: March 15, 2002.

There are no records of any papers presented, no Proceedings. Just one Resolution:
Condemning the Govt. of India for Genocide Against Minorities.


1) OK, did YOU consider the evidence before pronouncing a verdict, assholes?
2) How did you know, in OCTOBER 2001, that you should be inviting all the commies in India and Oirope to biss on India on March 15, 2002, 2 weeks after the Gujarat riots, hain? UNLESSS... u KNEW.

Which brings us to consider the special role of the Bored Trustys of Oberlin.
Back long ago, the EJs who ran Oberlin were EJs in China. Then in the Boxer Rebellion, the Boxers came and killed all the EJs, and dumped them in the sewers.
The Communists ran the EJs out.
Then circa 1990, things change. Magically, the PRC govt allowed the Oberlin gang back in. IOW the Bored-e-Trustys is heavily PRC-oriented **AND** EJ-oriented. Question: where does this lead with their common interests?
Sure enough, the Oberlin gang shifted operations from Cheen, and became leading EJs in Tamil Nadu. Probably also in Andhra.

Now you can perhaps begin to see who KNEW, and WHY, about the mass murder inflicted on the sleeping passengers of the Sabarmati Express in Godhra on Feb. 28, 2002.

The PRC has $11M to spare, I am sure.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2019 10:08

google has started lobbying the gotus that pushing huawei out of the android OEM program into the wilds of the AOSP open source android without google support (which xiaomi uses with its heavy skins and own apps ), will mean loss of "control" and eventually hurt its business monopoly of android.

there was a million man protest in HK yesterday about a new extradition treaty proposed that gives cheen the right to arrest and deport to the mainland, anyone residing or transiting through HK of any nationality. when i visited hk a few moons ago, some pro democracy people were handing out leaflets about this outside metro stations and many wall posters were there in commercial areas. so the mentality of the people there is very different and they are worried about the expiry of their special administrative status in 2037.

after telling turkiye to pack up its JSF program participation over its reluctance to cancel the s400 deal, gotus has now offered JSF to india, if we cancel the s400 deal :rotfl:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2019 10:44


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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chola » 10 Jun 2019 11:56

^^^ Unkil will force Cheen into a fight over HK and Taiwan in the next decade.

Cheen will try to avoid fight but retain control over HK and Taiwan.

PRC controls survival of both with trade (and in the case HK, water and food as well.)

War will result in an easy Amreeki win. No war means Cheen will inevitably grow bigger than the US irregardless of trade war.

This is the top global contest of our times.


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