Understanding the US - Again

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darshan
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby darshan » 11 Sep 2019 04:45

I wouldn't give any credit to IG for something like reducing quota. Any of her decisions were likely based on political tit for tat unlike Desai's clear cut ban on the basis of it's just not done.


___________________
Sounds familiar.


A mosque welcomes Beto O'Rourke in New Hampshire
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-shaken-m ... ampshire/#

"To be honest, I'm scared at times to come here for the prayers," Erum Usmani of Londonderry, New Hampshire told CBS News of the Manchester mosque. "Because you never know. It's an open carry state. You worry about your kids."

The former physician who calls herself "as American as apple pie" emigrated from Pakistan three decades ago. "When I see Trump rallies, it literally gives me chills," Usmani said. "Because my kids are born and bred here. They've never been made to feel like they are outsiders. And somehow, with this president, they're made to feel as if they don't belong."

An independent voter, Usmani called it a "mistake" for candidates to bypass the Muslim community. "We vote as a block. I remember the first time I voted was the George Bush election. He reached out to the Muslim community. And we voted for him," Usmani said.

Tariq Omer echoed that sentiment after grabbing a selfie with O'Rourke.

"It's important to reach out to marginalized groups," the graduate student at Georgetown said. "I feel like one of the mistakes Hillary Clinton might have made when she was campaigning —I mean she won the popular vote, but she took a lot of her constituents for granted during her presidential campaign. It's nice to come out and get some face time with a community you may not be familiar with and pick up those anecdotes that you can drop during the presidential debate."


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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Rahul M » 11 Sep 2019 07:22

Darshan ji, to give credit where it's due, IG did have a soft corner for nature. She initiated quite a few initiatives in nature protection that didn't have an obvious political pay-off.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ramana » 12 Sep 2019 00:58

Gautam, Yes there was lot of news about how rhesus monkeys were being ill used in US 'research' labs for sundry purposes.
Morarji Desai took form decision.
And did not waffle on reducing export quota.
Tirupati hills were being denuded of these monkeys by trappers.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Gyan » 12 Sep 2019 22:04

Whether dropping Bolton will have effect on Pakistan & China policy of USA?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Vayutuvan » 12 Sep 2019 22:54

It most certainly will. But it all depends on whether US-Iran meeting at the highest level takes place and the outcome.
For China, NoKo is more important than Pakistan. My two cents.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Philip » 13 Sep 2019 06:14

Media reports:
The US has accused Israel of planting sophisticated devices know as " Stingrays", to eavesdrop on calls, etc. near the White House and in the capital.The devices that mimic mobile towers after examination by US agencies were according to them to have most likely come only from Israel.The Israeli embassy has stoutly denied the accusations saying that it does not conduct espionage in the US.However, one J.J.Pollard, a former intel analyst is still in custody in the US for life , arrested years ago, with the US regusing to release him despite intense pressure from Israel.

Bibi N. is battling for his political survival with elections due shortly, and has gone to Russia to ostensibly woo Putin for the Russian origin Israeli vote, putting up hoardings of himself and Putin, Russian lingo ads, etc. He has also vowed to take back the West Bank infuriating the Palestinians,UN, EU,etc.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 14 Sep 2019 09:23

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... estruction
John Bolton is finally gone. But can his path of destruction be reversed?
Ben Armbruster, Wed 11 Sep 2019 09.12
Washington DC’s most famous warmonger might have lost his job, but this probably won’t be the last we hear of Bolton
Our long international nightmare of John Bolton is over. For now.

Did Bolton resign? Was he fired? It doesn’t matter. John Bolton is now no longer in charge of US national security policy and thus, we can all breathe a little easier.
Indeed, Bolton’s top priority has always been to go to war with Iran. One of the biggest concerns among those of us who understand that going to war with Iran is a bad idea was that Bolton, an experienced bureaucrat, would take advantage of a naive commander-in-chief and use innocuous enough policy decisions to slow-walk Donald Trump into a corner where war was the only way out.
Bolton – who has made a career of scuttling arms control agreements – also had his sights on cancelling the Obama-era New Start Treaty, an agreement between the US and Russia that placed limits on the number of deployed nuclear warheads, missiles, bombers and launchers.
Bolton has spent the better part of his tenure in the Trump administration disparaging the treaty, repeatedly signaling that the US wouldn’t put much effort toward renewing it before it expires in February 2021.
But while our collective outlook going forward is promising without Bolton anywhere near the levers of power, the trail of flames he has left behind will have lasting damage.
Yes he wasn’t successful in convincing Trump to attack Iran, but Bolton helped create the conditions for war by pushing Trump to finally withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal mere weeks after assuming the top national security job. As predicted (even by the CIA), that policy has turned out to be a complete disaster, with the US isolated from its European allies, Iran’s nuclear program less constrained, and the Trump administration failing miserably in its quest to rein in Iran’s nefarious regional behavior or to spark internal strife toward the regime.
And even though Bolton’s departure gives New Start a new lease on life, he convinced Trump to ditch diplomatic efforts at saving the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty with Russia and instead shepherded a US withdrawal, which officially went into effect last month. Experts are already citing the move as the catalyst for a renewed cold war-esque arms race.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Sep 2019 02:44

Petition by academics and civil society members to rescind Gates Foundation award for PM Modi.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/gates-foundation-criticised-award-indian-pm-modi-190913093713879.html

Who are these people? Shouldn't there be a counter petition? This reminds of the Visa denial petition. Butcher of Gujrat crap continues...... Unbelievable

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby darshan » 15 Sep 2019 09:04

CAIR shows up at everything where there's any hate crime whether muslim or not.

What if Hinduphobia starts piggybacking islamophobia and returns the favor? Let CAIR spend money and setup stages like following and learned entities raise hand and ask but what about Hinduphobia


Slowik: Peace activists hold forum on Islamophobia and other forms of hate
https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/ ... story.html

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby darshan » 16 Sep 2019 00:18

Muslim kids in Philly dance to chopping heads jihad song — and we still don’t know why
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019 ... ihad-song/

In April, a group of kids at the Muslim American Society Islamic Center in Philadelphia were captured on camera dancing and lip-syncing and performing on stage to a happy little ditty of chopping heads and leading armies of Allah and torturing enemies and other Islamic political and religious principles. And the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations announced an investigation.

Investigation, indeed. Now: Where are the results? Hat tip for the Middle East Media Research Institute for helping bring this to light. https://www.memri.org/tv/children-phila ... transcript

Apparently, it’s not moving along as fast as it should. At least to some. At least to a couple of members of Congress — Republican Reps. Lee Zeldin and Scott Perry — who penned a letter to the executive director of the Philly commission, Rue Landau, asking if she’s nearly finished — and if she needs some help from the Department of Justice.

“[This] shocking event at the Muslim American Society (MAS) Islamic Center in Philadelphia to celebrate ‘Ummah Day’ … captured children lip syncing in Arabic about beheadings in the name of Islam with lyrics like, ‘We will chop off their heads. … We will lead the army of Allah fulfilling his promise, we will subject them to eternal torture.’ Additionally,” the congressmen wrote, “the anthem called for the elimination of Israel with lyrics promoting jihad.”

Just as we shouldn’t have children in America running around and singing songs about beheading infidels and so forth — we can’t have Muslim organizations masquerading as harmless purveyors of the arts, all the while teaching little kids to kill.

Kudos to Zeldin and Perry for following up and pressing for answers.

Feds shouldn’t drop the ball on this one.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby anmol » 17 Sep 2019 18:27

Understanding America's Cultural and Political Realignment - Quillette

source: https://quillette.com/2019/09/16/unders ... alignment/

Published on September 16, 2019
written by Richard Tafel

Understanding American politics has become increasingly confusing as the old party labels have lost much of their meaning. A simplistic Left vs. Right worldview no longer captures the complexity of what’s going on. As the authors of the October 2017 “Pew Survey of American Political Typologies” write, “[i]n a political landscape increasingly fractured by partisanship, the divisions within the Republican and Democratic coalitions may be as important a factor in American politics as the divisions between them.”To understand our politics, we need to understand the cultural values that drive it. The integral cultural map developed by philosopher Ken Wilber identifies nine global cultural value systems including the archaic (survival), tribal (shaman), warrior (warlords and gangs), traditional (fundamentalist faith in God), modern (democracy and capitalism), and postmodern (world-centric pluralism). When combined with Pew’s voter typologies, Wilber’s cultural levels offer a new map of America’s political landscape.

Of Wilber’s nine global value systems, the Traditional, Modern, and Postmodern categories are most useful to understanding our moment. Traditional culture values disciplined adherence to assigned gender and social roles: men are providers and heads of households, marriage is between one man and one woman, and the institutions of the military, law enforcement, and the clergy are all highly respected. Historically, traditional cultures were monarchies or states ruled by “strongmen.” Modern culture superseded traditional systems in the West during the Enlightenment, and values rationality, democracy, meritocracy, capitalism, and science. Individual rights, free speech, and free markets harness an entrepreneurial spirit to solve problems.Postmodern culture offers a borderless, geocentric political view that values pluralism. It challenges a pro-American narrative by focusing on the horrors of American history, including the exploitation of Native Americans, slavery, and persistent inequality disproportionately affecting historically disadvantaged groups. Those left behind by modernity and progress now seek recognition, restoration, and retribution via a politics of protest, and show little interest in building political organizations or institutions. We are currently living in a postmodern political moment of disruption, best described by author Helen Pluckrose in her Areo essay “How French Intellectuals Ruined the West: Postmodernism and its Impact, Explained”:

If we see modernity as the tearing down of structures of power including feudalism, the Church, patriarchy, and Empire, postmodernists are attempting to continue it, but their targets are now science, reason, humanism and liberalism. Consequently, the roots of postmodernism are inherently political and revolutionary, albeit in a destructive or, as they would term it, deconstructive way.

When we overlay Pew’s data with Wilber’s Value levels, six cultural political categories emerge: Traditional Left and Right, Modern Left and Right, and Postmodern Left and Right.

Traditional Left: Devout and Diverse

If you live in an urban bubble, you may not even recognize the Traditional Left. Pew identifies these Democrats as “Devout and Diverse,” mainly comprised of minorities. Pew describes them as “…fac[ing] the most difficult financial challenges among all Democratic categories.” They are “the most religiously observant Democratic-leaning group, and the only one in which a majority (64 percent) says it is necessary to believe in God to be moral and have good values… they have a strong support for the social safety net and further action on racial equality.” These Democrats don’t support gay rights or increasing immigration and, as Pew notes, “40 percent describe their own ideology as conservative.” They are the oldest of the Democratic voter groups and make up around six percent of all engaged voters.

Traditional Right: Country First

While the Devout and Diverse voters have almost no public profile in the media, the Traditional Right is perceived to be much larger than it is. Pew refers to them as “Country First” Republicans, who “fear America risks losing our identity as a nation.” They have largely negative views of scientists and artists, and are the most elderly of all typology groups. Primarily comprised of white men, they hold a generally favorable view of Trump and uniformly oppose same-sex marriage. They make up about six percent of all engaged voters.

While both Republicans and Democrats have socially conservative, anti-gay, anti-immigrant voters in roughly the same numbers, the social conservatives on the Right play a more prominent role in American politics, partly because they play a larger role in the GOP, and partly because the media like to highlight them to fit their own narrative. Based on their aging demographic, the traditional value level is unlikely to be as significant a force in future elections.

Modern Left: Opportunity Democrats

The Modern Left is best represented by Pew’s “Opportunity Democrats,” who are optimistic and pro-business. They believe “most people can get ahead if they are willing to work hard” to achieve the American Dream. Almost half of them say “most corporations make a fair and reasonable amount of profit.” They are primarily white, financially well off, and describe themselves as moderate. They are socially inclusive, liberal on immigration, and supportive of gay rights. They are also less likely to believe that blacks and women face structural barriers to advancement. Until recently, this group defined what it meant to be a Democrat, but they have lost their center of power. Today, they make up around 13 percent of all engaged voters.

Modern Right: Core Conservatives and New Era EnterprisersTwo different groups in Pew’s study represent Modern values among Republican voters. The larger and older of the two are called “Core Conservatives,” while the younger, smaller group Pew calls “New Era Enterprisers.” Both groups share modern values evidenced by their belief in the power of capitalism and democracy. Both believe in the power of the free market and the importance of America’s global leadership. Both remain optimistic about the possibilities afforded by the American Dream. They make up the 66 percent of Republicans who support the “Dreamers.” Their pro-immigration position is also confirmed in a Gallup report, which states that “… significantly more Republicans favor a path to citizenship than support building a border wall or deporting illegal immigrants.”

Core Conservatives are the largest Republican voter group. Made up of mostly white men, they enjoy the highest rates of home ownership of any voter group, and a majority believe that they’ve achieved the American Dream. They are the best educated of any Republican group, yet have the most negative attitudes toward the impact colleges have on our country. They are most likely to invest in the stock market and their most important issue is the economy. “Sixty-eight percent express a positive view of US involvement in the global economy ‘because it provides the US with new markets and opportunities for growth.’” In addition to their largely pro-free market and pro-immigration views, they have the most favorable view of Donald Trump among all voting groups. They represent 20 percent of all engaged voters.

New Era Enterprisers, meanwhile, are young, urban, and much more ethnically diverse. Pew points out that they are “strongly pro-business and generally think that immigrants strengthen, rather than burden, the country.” Innovation and entrepreneurship are most important to them. They are pro-immigration and pro-gay rights with the highest opinion of a role for government among any Republican group. Only a quarter of them self-identify as strong Republicans. They are the least supportive of Donald Trump among Republican groups, and the least likely to express negative attitudes toward the Democratic Party. They make up nine percent of all engaged voters.

Together these two modern Republican groups total 29 percent of engaged voters, and represent the center of power within the GOP.

Postmodern Left: Solid Liberals and Disaffected Democrats

The two Pew voting groups which make up the Postmodern Left are “Solid Liberals” and “Disaffected Democrats.” Both groups have negative views of capitalism and are concerned about America’s treatment of minority groups.Solid Liberals is a bit of a misnomer as they tend to reject liberalism in its classical form. They are progressives who hold strongly negative views of businesses, question or reject the concept of the American Dream, and see the world through the lens of identity politics. They are mostly white, well-off, and well-educated, and they are the most secular voters found across voting groups. Ninety-seven percent strongly disapprove of Trump’s job performance. They are unlikely to have friends outside their political circle, and over half of this group would say “that a friendship would be strained if someone voted for Trump,” much higher than any other Democratic group. It isn’t just Trump they dislike. They are highly partisan in general and the least tolerant of Republicans among all Democrat groups. They are the largest engaged Democratic voting group and the largest of all voting groups in Pews voter typologies. They make up 25 percent of engaged voters.

Pew characterizes Disaffected Democrats as a “financially stressed, majority-minority group [that] supports activist government and the social safety net…” They are unhappy with America and their “disaffection stems from their cynicism about politics, government and the way things are going in the country. Disaffected Democrats would be the most likely to see the world through the lens of identity politics.”

A large majority of Disaffected Democrats say their side has been losing in politics, while fewer than half believe that voting gives them a say in how the government runs things, highlighting another hallmark of their beliefs: they have very little faith in the system.” They believe government has failed them and that, “poor people have hard lives because government benefits do not go far enough to help them live decently.” Unlike the white elite Postmodern Democrats, they often have lived in the same neighborhood their entire lives. They make up 11 percent of all engaged voters.

Together these two diverse progressive groups make up 36 percent of all engaged Democratic voters, which makes them the largest of any groups on the Left or Right. When pundits refer to the Democratic Party moving “leftwards” there are trying to capture this movement toward the postmodern level—the new center of gravity of cultural power on the American Left.

Postmodern Right: Market Skeptic Republicans

The group that is least understood in American politics is the Postmodern Right. While postmodernism on the Left focuses on the failure of modernity to address social justice in term of identity politics, the Postmodern Right questions the fundamental economic worldview of the Modern Right. In Pew’s survey, they show up as a new category named “Market Skeptic Republicans.”

Like those on the Postmodern Left, they share a strong skepticism of America exceptionalism, an overriding pessimism about the country, and they are critical of both political parties. They are the first ever “Republican-leaning group that is deeply skeptical of business and the fundamental fairness of the nation’s economic system.” They do not believe in lower taxes, which until recently defined the modern GOP, and they have an unfavorable view of banks and other financial institutions. Unlike other Republicans, Market Skeptic Republicans believe American capitalism is unfair, “an overwhelming share (94 percent) say the economic system unfairly favors powerful interests.”

The media often lumps them in as traditional conservatives because of their opposition to immigration. But that’s a mistake. They favor legal abortions in higher numbers than the Traditional Left Democrats, and they are the most secular of all Republican groups. They are also most interested in a white identity politics, mirroring those on the Left.

They are also the least loyal to the GOP. As Pew notes, “They stand out for their criticism of both political parties when it comes to caring about the middle class.” They hold a more favorable view of Donald Trump than most other Republican groups. Though not well known and ignored by the media, they are a larger voting group than the religious Right in the Republican Party, making up 10 percent of all engaged GOP voters.

Using Pew’s voter groups on an integral value map illuminates how polarization is causing divisions within, and well as between, America’s Left and Right. It also shows that the center of American politics has moved from a modern base which held the center of gravity for over a century to a new postmodern base. Today, the Democratic Party energy’s is centered at that postmodern level, while the center of the GOP remains modern.

Pews Voter Typologies By Cultural Worldview

% engaged voters % engaged voters
Postmodern Left 36% Postmodern Right 10%
Modern Left 13% Modern Right 29%
Traditional Left 6% Traditional Right 6%

What this Map Tells Us about the 2016 Election

In 2016, instead of hiring DC-based consultants, Donald Trump listened to conservative talk radio to plot his strategy. Just as a bat uses sonar, Trump bounces ideas off audiences and recalculates his path accordingly. He intuitively understood that the element unifying the different aspects of the Traditional and Modern Rights was their united opposition to the growing dominance of the urban elite, and the identity politics favored by the Postmodern Left. He exploited those tensions by aggravating them and antagonizing the mainstream media as a means of uniting the Right.In addition, his post-truth worldview and ability to criticize establishment Republicans provided him with access to a new, postmodern Republican voting group—Market Skeptics. Writer David Ernst has argued in the Federalist that Trump is the first President to “turn postmodernism against itself,” because he grasped the postmodern idea of the anti-hero. 

If politics flows downwards from culture, then it was only a matter of time before a politician mastered the role. Love him or hate him, Donald Trump cracked that code. Tony Soprano, Walter White, and Frank Underwood are just a few recent examples of the enormously popular characters who have, each in their own way, stood in for the role of the complicated bad guy who fascinates millions of Americans.

Clinton’s Loss

No one told Hillary Clinton that the political landscape in which she and her husband had learned politics had changed. In the 1990s, Bill Clinton successfully navigated the values divide between moderns and traditionalists by polling and then speaking successfully to both traditional and modern voters on the Left and center-Right. That’s not the political world Hillary inherited.

Neither she nor Bill are at home with the postmodern voters that are now the largest voting group in the Democrat coalition. Bill Clinton repeatedly proved to be a liability in the 2008 and 2016 races because he failed to understand the demands of the newly “woke” Democrat coalition. Hillary was a modern candidate in a postmodern party without the cultural translation skills she needed to communicate with progressives. Many of those progressives voted in unusually high numbers for Green party candidate Jill Stein or simply stayed home.

What to Expect in 2020

Trump will again seek to unite his coalition by goading the Postmodern Left. Though incumbents are usually judged by how they performed in office, Trump will try to make these opponents the focus of his 2020 campaign, just as he did in 2016. The more he’s scolded by the media, the better his chances will be of reuniting his coalition. However, this strategy risks losing New Era Entrepreneurs, and losing any voting group on the Right makes Trump’s re-election difficult.

Democratic primary voters, meanwhile, are becoming more postmodern. The pressure to move from the modern liberal to progressive postmodern worldview in the crowded primary field risks alienating modern Democrats. Worse, whoever wins the progressive primary will need to work hard to attract any modern voters in the center and on the Right. Though two aging straight white men lead the polls in the primary as of this writing, the reality of a postmodern base in the Democratic coalition doesn’t bode well for straight white male candidates, and offers new opportunities to candidates who are female, black, Latino, or gay.

The challenge for Republicans is that the Traditional Right voting block is aging out. The divisions around business and the role of government between Market Skeptic Republicans and Core Conservatives are as profound as—if not greater than—the divisions on the Left. Worse, their larger voting coalitions are demographically much older. Trump risks pushing the remaining younger entrepreneurial, ethnically diverse voters into the Democrat coalition.

There is, however, one bright spot in this chaos. According to Wilbur’s theory, a new “integral” value system is emerging that “transcends and includes” the best aspects of earlier value systems. Jordan Peterson’s popularity may be an early sign of this—while embracing aspects of tradition, science, and therapeutic culture, his message and best-selling book appear to be resonating.

If this marks an early shift towards integral values, such a move could put an end to our vicious culture wars as new leaders emerge with the ability to see multiple viewpoints and accommodate their contradictions. Understanding American politics will continue to be hard work. But only when we understand culture will we understand politics so that we can transform it for the better.

Rich Tafel is the director of the American Project at the Pepperdine School of Public Policy. You can follow him on Twitter @richtafel

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2019 13:01


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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2019 21:36

DT just won my postal vote from Mongolia (if we had one)
"She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!" Trump posted on Twitter, replying to a video of Thunberg's speech at the United Nations climate action summit earlier in the day.

Sheer class.

Glad SOMEONE stood up to that future Bilary/Anaconda (apologies on spelling).

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ShyamSP » 24 Sep 2019 21:49

UlanBatori wrote:DT just won my postal vote from Mongolia (if we had one)
"She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!" Trump posted on Twitter, replying to a video of Thunberg's speech at the United Nations climate action summit earlier in the day.

Sheer class.

Glad SOMEONE stood up to that future Bilary/Anaconda (apologies on spelling).


It's like some Tamil movie I briefly watched. Bad guys employ minor boys for crimes so any action with non-obvious evidence on them seen as abuse of children and when obviously caught those minors incur minor sentence.

Globalists employ such Bad criminal tactics coaching such cute baby boys and girls. Afghan or Paki girl Malala is another example.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2019 23:54

Taliban etc use them as soosai bums.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Sep 2019 00:15

Question for this dhaga on "Under-Standing US"
Why is this question illegal in the US? Would the equivalent be illegal in India I wonder..

The argument is that it would "lead to an undercount". IOW, areas with significant populations of illegal aliens would not be able to grab a disproportionate share of federal and state resources.
Many states (see what I posted about the SAVE scam b4) already have LAWS that prohibit delivery of any state or local govt. services to "aliens beyond their legally valid duration of stay in the USA"
So what is wrong with not counting illegal alients in estimating resource allocations?
The Constitution is being abused here, isn't it?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ShyamSP » 25 Sep 2019 00:33

UlanBatori wrote:Question for this dhaga on "Under-Standing US"
Why is this question illegal in the US? Would the equivalent be illegal in India I wonder..

The argument is that it would "lead to an undercount". IOW, areas with significant populations of illegal aliens would not be able to grab a disproportionate share of federal and state resources.
Many states (see what I posted about the SAVE scam b4) already have LAWS that prohibit delivery of any state or local govt. services to "aliens beyond their legally valid duration of stay in the USA"
So what is wrong with not counting illegal alients in estimating resource allocations?
The Constitution is being abused here, isn't it?


Judge says interestingly this question doesn't violate constitution, so whatever unlawful/illegality of such question in judgement is nothing but pulling from his bottom. Lower US courts are pretty much useless punting all such suits to Supreme Court.

==
"Secretary Ross’s decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census — even if it did not violate the Constitution itself — was unlawful for a multitude of independent reasons and must be set aside," Furman wrote.
==

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Sep 2019 01:29

Looks like a trumpistani ploy to hammer CA/NY/NJ, hence the :(( . But I see nothing illegal. So the census is to "count" ppl and ask whether they are male/female/both/other, maybe age range, maybe race/color? But not about citjenship???

Would be interesting if it turns out that # of citjens < # who voted in last election :rotfl:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ShyamSP » 25 Sep 2019 01:59

UlanBatori wrote:Looks like a trumpistani ploy to hammer CA/NY/NJ, hence the :(( . But I see nothing illegal. So the census is to "count" ppl and ask whether they are male/female/both/other, maybe age range, maybe race/color? But not about citjenship???

Would be interesting if it turns out that # of citjens < # who voted in last election :rotfl:


Looking at US popular votes in 2016 elections,
USA: Clinton - Trump = 65,853,514 - 62,984,828 = 2,868,686
CA: Clinton - Trump = 8,753,788 - 4,483,810 = 4,269,978
LA: Clinton - Trump = 2,464,364 - 769,743 = 1,694,621

As long Trump ignores Karlifornia and limits wall-crossing of Hombres and Mujres between Yuma to Tijuana, he should be fine for next round and Republicans for another decade from 2024.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Sep 2019 03:40

^^^Voting rules and laws are done by individual states, but need to be controlled by a central/federal election commission. There is too much scope for booth capturing and ballot box stuffing.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby saip » 25 Sep 2019 03:59

UB, that decision is from January 2019. Then the SCOTUS weighed in (6/27/19) and seems to agree with the lower court and sent the case back to lower court for further enquiry as they felt commerce dept did not give real reason for the question. CJ Roberts played a major part in that. (In the majority opinion, Chief Justice John Roberts declared that the Commerce Department provided a pretextual reason for wanting the citizenship question that was merely “a distraction,” in violation of the legal requirement that agencies disclose the true reasons behind their decisions) Commerce Secretary gave up and now that question won't be on the census 2020 as there is no time to go through the court procedures. The SCOTUS may in future decide the question is legit and allow it for 2030. But for 2020 it is a no go.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Sep 2019 07:17

Thx. But DT has stalled the census until it is decided, hain?


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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chetak » 25 Sep 2019 09:17

twitter


India is looking for Trump to call Pakistan terror state. Pakistan is looking to Trump to get international community to intervene in Kashmir.

Trump meanwhile looking for his own Clinton - Arafat - Rabin Oslo moment.

Its like a rock band, all musicians playing different songs

10:46 AM - 23 Sep 2019

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Skanda » 25 Sep 2019 10:31

Best Moments From The Lewandowski Hearing


Please see the video. Absolutely hilarious. You have to constantly keep reminding yourself that this actually happened.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Sep 2019 21:12

The more people see how their tax dollars that feed these oiseules, are wasted, the closer the US gets to a military dictatorship.
BTW, the Impeachment move, every minute of it , reminds voters that the issue is that Candidate Biden did something crooked as VP. Jeeeinuses!!

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Sep 2019 22:18

And realization is slowly beginning to dawn

This is one case where DT benefits by revealing all and saying: "And what was wrong with telling a friendly nation to catch a crook?"

“I put no pressure on them, whatsoever,” Trump said Monday of the call. “I could have, I think it would have probably possibly have been OK if I did, but I didn't--I didn't put any pressure on them whatsoever, you know why because they want to do the right thing and they know about corruption, and they probably know that Joe Biden and his son are corrupt.


So now the donkeys gave DT a free hand to say that. And the elephants will blare it. Biden is cooked.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby saip » 25 Sep 2019 22:23

UlanBatori wrote:Thx. But DT has stalled the census until it is decided, hain?

Nope. He can not. The justice dept (or is it commerce dept?) has given up and has gone ahead with printing the forms or at least designing the forms (it is supposed to be mostly on line). The 2020 census is on. The Q may come back on 2030 census.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 26 Sep 2019 01:30

Dang! Where were these nice Judges when the SAVE was torturing Permanent Residents trying to get their Driver's License renewed?
"
Oh, it doesn't have an expiry date (er.... when it was issued, "Permanent" meant as in "No Expiry date". :roll: .) So we will issue for only 1 year."


"You don't show as having entered the United States, per the SAVE database. Check back in 10 working days. And oh, don't drive after ur license expires".

Top immigration lawyer says:
I know, everyone is crying about that. But sorry, I cannot represent you to sue the State. The State hired me to defend them already"


Some din the story of how my 6th coujin - already thrice removed by ISI - got around that Catch-22 will be published. Not sure Statute -e- Limitashuns has expired yet. :eek:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Sep 2019 18:27

saip wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Thx. But DT has stalled the census until it is decided, hain?

Nope. He can not. The justice dept (or is it commerce dept?) has given up and has gone ahead with printing the forms or at least designing the forms (it is supposed to be mostly on line). The 2020 census is on. The Q may come back on 2030 census.


It is the Dept. of Commerce which conducts the census. The Secretary of Commerce has a fair amount discretion in the agency's operation. Let's wait to see what the census has on it. In many cases, the Census is mailed, you complete it and send it back. It is also on-line for those who want to do it that way. They still go door-to-door, but those operations are being scaled back. Instead of asking for citizenship, they can ask if a person voted in the last election or if they have registered to vote. That would reveal something more.

The goal with the citizenship question is to determine if the east and west coasts, and major metros are overly represented in terms of seats in the US House, and if they are over represented in electoral college.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby komal » 26 Sep 2019 20:14

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Sep 2019 20:35

The American system is rather different from the parliamentary system of India. So e.g., the US Federal Government cannot force the reorganization of a US state like the Indian Parliament did with J&K.

In the current legal interpretation of the US Constitution and laws by the Department of Justice, the President cannot be indicted for any wrongdoing while he is in office. The only remedy to wrongdoing by the President is impeachment. Impeachment is primarily a political process not a legal one. The result is that the President has a very wide latitude to do wrong or disgrace his office until there is sufficient political will to impeach him.

The US system really relies on the almost unfettered powers of a President with the assumption that he is of good character. As long as that assumption is true, not being bound by rules and regulations is a good thing. Anyway, the point is that it is a different system with different norms and is not always easy to understand.

This President has a lot of black marks against him, but what appears to be an attempted cover-up of a whistleblower complaint seems to have finally tipped the scales for the Democrats.

A timeline of what has led to this point in the Ukraine affair is here:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/whis ... ump-schiff

Here is a timeline with even more relevant detail:
https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/time ... rainegate/

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KLNMurthy » 26 Sep 2019 21:00

A_Gupta wrote:The American system is rather different from the parliamentary system of India. So e.g., the US Federal Government cannot force the reorganization of a US state like the Indian Parliament did with J&K.

In the current legal interpretation of the US Constitution and laws by the Department of Justice, the President cannot be indicted for any wrongdoing while he is in office. The only remedy to wrongdoing by the President is impeachment. Impeachment is primarily a political process not a legal one. The result is that the President has a very wide latitude to do wrong or disgrace his office until there is sufficient political will to impeach him.

The US system really relies on the almost unfettered powers of a President with the assumption that he is of good character. As long as that assumption is true, not being bound by rules and regulations is a good thing. Anyway, the point is that it is a different system with different norms and is not always easy to understand.

This President has a lot of black marks against him, but what appears to be an attempted cover-up of a whistleblower complaint seems to have finally tipped the scales for the Democrats.

A timeline of what has led to this point in the Ukraine affair is here:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/whis ... ump-schiff

Here is a timeline with even more relevant detail:
https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/time ... rainegate/

As cover-ups go, this one is no Watergate. There was only token resistance before the Executive branch released the phone call readout as well as the copy of the whistleblower complaint.

Politically, it looks like Trump is going with his instinct that the conversation will be shifted to the shady dealings of Biden & son, and the Republican base (96% pro-Trump) will shrug off the phone call, whose appropriateness they will judge by Trumpian standards.

Observing the media coverage, it is remarkable how much the NYT-WaPo led US media's coverage of Trump is like the Indian MSM's coverage of Modi. Both are shrill and ultimately ineffectual, but NYT et al have "good english" while Indian MSM's professionalism is brittle at best. And of course, the big difference is that Modi is honest and competent, while Trump is an emotion-driven crook.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KJo » 26 Sep 2019 21:26

I think Sheila Jackson Lee from TX was at the Modi event. Isn't she virulently pro paki and anti India?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Sep 2019 21:29

komal wrote:Consequences of DT economic policies starting to cause further pain. Since the Reagan years, U. S. has relied on foreign buyers to fund the massive deficits.

US now needs to issue upwards of $1 trillion in debt to fund DT's economic policies. Japanese, Chinese, KSA are not buying. Japanese holdings are at 20 year lows. Chinese holdings are at 2006 levels.

Statements such as deficits as percentage of GDP are low ignore the fact the only a limited number of institutions can buy Treasuries. And for reasons that should be obvious, countries like China no longer are willing buyers. This leaves the FRB as the buyer of last resort. The adverse consequences of a central bank buying the bulk of a nation's debt are not unknown.

The USA had charmed existence -- buyers wtih nearly insatiable demand for its debt. In 3 years that market has been destroyed.


I don’t that is accurate. As of Sep. 2019 Japan, PRC, and UK are major holders of US treasuries. Slow downs of buying are typically related to yield rates of these treasuries. Trump has only been in office for about 32 months and not 3 years. Yield rates have recently gone up since having been down the last couple years.

https://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/pages/textview.aspx?data=yield

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby komal » 26 Sep 2019 21:40

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Sep 2019 21:48

^^^If one doesn’t look at the what the Treasury rates are over time, you can draw your own biased conclusions and call them as facts.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby sudeepj » 26 Sep 2019 21:57

darshan wrote:CAIR shows up at everything where there's any hate crime whether muslim or not.

What if Hinduphobia starts piggybacking islamophobia and returns the favor? Let CAIR spend money and setup stages like following and learned entities raise hand and ask but what about Hinduphobia


Slowik: Peace activists hold forum on Islamophobia and other forms of hate
https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/ ... story.html


I dont understand Hindus thinking they are so strong in the public arena.. Reality is, CAIR/ISNA are outspending us thousand times to one. They have tens of lawyers on staff.. Even Khalistanis are better off at community organization and pushing/pulling the levers of democratic politics than Hindus.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Sep 2019 22:00

KJo wrote:I think Sheila Jackson Lee from TX was at the Modi event. Isn't she virulently pro paki and anti India?


It would have been bad if she wasn’t there as the event was in her district. Yes, she is virulently anti Indian, which the Dumbocratic Urban Naxal party is today.


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