Understanding the US - Again

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g.sarkar
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 21 Apr 2020 23:08

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/2 ... rus-197755
Trump's surprise immigration ban expected to include major exemption
Several industry representatives expect the upcoming immigration suspension will exempt one of the largest sources of immigration at the moment — farmworkers.
By ANITA KUMAR, LIZ CRAMPTON and MATTHEW CHOI, 04/20/2020

President Donald Trump’s announcement that he would soon suspend immigration into the U.S. surprised his own officials and likely overstated the extent of the still-developing executive order. Already, much of the immigration flow into the country has been paused during the coronavirus pandemic, as the government has temporarily stopped processing all nonworker visas. And, according to three industry representatives familiar with the decision, the upcoming ban will exempt seasonal foreign farmworker visas, one of the largest sources of immigration at the moment.
The Department of Homeland Security is still drafting the plan, though, meaning its contours could change, according to three people familiar with the situation. Officials have also discussed even broader exemptions for all temporary guest workers, not just for those working in agriculture.
Whatever order Trump issues will have significant political ramifications. Cutting off all immigration would bolster Trump’s standing with his hard-line conservative base, but anger the business community, which wants Trump to ease restrictions on temporary worker visas. Conversely, if Trump chooses to exempt any temporary workers from his immigration ban, he’ll bolster his standing with the business community but risk creating a backlash among his more conservative base.
Trump kicked off speculation about his intentions Monday with a late-night tweet proclaiming: “In light of the attack from the Invisible Enemy, as well as the need to protect the jobs of our GREAT American Citizens, I will be signing an Executive Order to temporarily suspend immigration into the United States!” The tweet did not indicate what specific action Trump would take: He could simply suspend entries for a period of time, or cancel a specific program for the year. The White House did not offer clarity when it issued its first official statement on the issue Tuesday morning.
“President Trump is committed to protecting the health and economic well-being of American citizens as we face unprecedented times,” said White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany. “As President Trump has said, ‘Decades of record immigration have produced lower wages and higher unemployment for our citizens, especially for African-American and Latino workers.’ At a time when Americans are looking to get back to work, action is necessary.” When asked what prompted the decision, a top DHS official responded: “22 million unemployed Americans and counting due to Covid-19.”
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Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby syam » 21 Apr 2020 23:26

Manish_Sharma wrote:Could you please post link to this tweet, I want to share this on my Twitter

https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/1252589073396494337

Click on the hash tag #SteveBannonOnIndiaUpfront , you will find all of the tweets.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KL Dubey » 21 Apr 2020 23:38

vimal wrote:Please don't promote that Bannon guy. He is not our friend.


I didn't see the post above as "promoting" Bannon. Why not listen to what he has to say first?

Posting the whole interview here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53R9iEKpRc

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby nachiket » 22 Apr 2020 01:27

Steve Bannon is also the guy who said this:

Talk drifted to the subject of immigration. Trump mentioned that he wasn't in favor of sending home foreign students who come to the US to study.

"We have to be careful of that, Steve," said Trump. "You know, we have to keep our talented people in this country." He seemed to expect that Bannon would agree that foreign students were "our talented people."

Bannon appeared to demur.

"When two-thirds or three-quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia, I think..." he began. He then offered this thought: "A country is more than an economy. We're a civic society."


Forget about the fact that the statistic itself is completely wrong (the number is nowhere near 2/3 or 3/4) but look at the unease at seeing asians becoming CEO's (instead of good old white people I imagine). That's bad for civic society you know.

Link

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KL Dubey » 22 Apr 2020 03:16

nachiket wrote:Steve Bannon is also the guy who said this: Link


I am aware of his previous rants. Bannon's views seem to be changing, especially after being fired by Trump. He seems smart enough to realize that his "stop immigration" views lead nowhere except pandering to readers of Breitbart whose job went to an Indian.

Shalabh Kumar has actually made this guy the new "honorary chairman of the Republican Hindu Coalition" (the last one was Newt Gingrich).

Whether he continues down a reasonable path remains to be seen.

When the likes of Naresh Agrawal, J Scindia, Gaurav Bhatia, et al who spent a good part of their careers bashing Modi/BJP can turn into BJP wallahs upholding Modi's vision, why cannot Bannon turn into a India/Modi supporter for whatever reason. Whether it is selfishly or sincerely motivated, I will take it over the socialist/"left wing"/liberal/democ-rat/"no human is illegal" crowd any day.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 22 Apr 2020 21:17

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/21/trump-i ... visas.html
Trump immigration ban halts green cards, not temporary visas
APR 21 2020

President Donald Trump announced Tuesday he will be placing a 60-day pause on the issuance of certain immigration green cards in an effort to limit competition for jobs in a U.S. economy wrecked by the coronavirus.
“To protect American workers I will be issuing a temporary suspension of immigrating into the United States,” Trump said at a White House briefing after tweeting about the order late Monday night.
Trump said that the move would not impact those in the country on a temporary basis and would apply only to those looking for green cards in hopes of staying. An administration official familiar with the plans had said earlier the order would be focused on preventing people from winning permission to live and work in the U.S. That would include those seeking employment-based green cards and relatives of green card holders who are not citizens. Americans who wish to bring immediate family to the country would still be able to do so, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity before the plan was announced. About one million people were granted green cards last year.
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Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby greatde » 22 Apr 2020 21:38

KL Dubey wrote:
nachiket wrote:Steve Bannon is also the guy who said this: Link


I am aware of his previous rants. Bannon's views seem to be changing, especially after being fired by Trump. He seems smart enough to realize that his "stop immigration" views lead nowhere except pandering to readers of Breitbart whose job went to an Indian.

Shalabh Kumar has actually made this guy the new "honorary chairman of the Republican Hindu Coalition" (the last one was Newt Gingrich).

Whether he continues down a reasonable path remains to be seen.

When the likes of Naresh Agrawal, J Scindia, Gaurav Bhatia, et al who spent a good part of their careers bashing Modi/BJP can turn into BJP wallahs upholding Modi's vision, why cannot Bannon turn into a India/Modi supporter for whatever reason. Whether it is selfishly or sincerely motivated, I will take it over the socialist/"left wing"/liberal/democ-rat/"no human is illegal" crowd any day.


True. Currently, we are not in strong position to choose or select allies. There is Swamy, Smriti who have been critical of Modi/BJP in the past and now, they have all been welcomed.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby sajo » 23 Apr 2020 11:56

The environment is ripe for the Citizens of Unkil-land to direct their anger at the American Co's who encourage China and fuels its manufacturing prowess. If they make these companies like Walmart or Costco pay for their greed by making them part of multibillion dollar lawsuits against China, it will bring about a faster shift to the "Look Elsewhere" policy.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby amar_p » 23 Apr 2020 12:06

Americans agitating against China should simply stop buying needless Chinese junk. Consumer behaviour the world over is fuelling China's exports, companies are simply cashing in.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby amar_p » 25 Apr 2020 13:58

House Democrats investigating unproven Covid-19 antibody tests
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/24/politics/house-oversight-investigating-covid-19-antibody-tests-invs/index.html

Trump had been harping "test are coming, tests are coming"... "because we spoke to the FDA and got them to expedite the approvals process". I wouldn't be surprised if its proven that Trump pressured the FDA to do away with validating antibody testing kits altogether to show that progress is being made and look good in his press conferences. And someone at the FDA, scared of being the target of OrangeUtan's maligning buckled and lifted the very requirement FDA is there for.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 25 Apr 2020 15:57

amar_p wrote:Americans agitating against China should simply stop buying needless Chinese junk. Consumer behaviour the world over is fuelling China's exports, companies are simply cashing in.

If you work in a low paying job (or two) and have a family with small children, you have to buy from dollar or 99c stores just to survive. China virus will make this situation only worse. The only way is to tax goods coming from China. Another way to do this is follow China's own example of denying market share by hook or by crook.
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Apr 2020 12:07

amar_p wrote:House Democrats investigating unproven Covid-19 antibody tests
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/24/politics/house-oversight-investigating-covid-19-antibody-tests-invs/index.html

Trump had been harping "test are coming, tests are coming"... "because we spoke to the FDA and got them to expedite the approvals process". I wouldn't be surprised if its proven that Trump pressured the FDA to do away with validating antibody testing kits altogether to show that progress is being made and look good in his press conferences. And someone at the FDA, scared of being the target of OrangeUtan's maligning buckled and lifted the very requirement FDA is there for.


The US has tested over 5.28 million cases. The per capita rate is still 16K/1M, but is slowly rising. Antibody testing, although not as accurate as PCR testing, is intended to be a low cost widely available test like seasonal flu tests. When antibody testing is being used in other countries relatively successfully, then there is no reason why the FDA should delay by re-inventing the wheel. The US medical and pharmaceutical lobby is intent on ripping off the public.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby amar_p » 26 Apr 2020 12:45

Mort Walker wrote:
amar_p wrote:House Democrats investigating unproven Covid-19 antibody tests
[url]When antibody testing is being used in other countries relatively successfully, then there is no reason why the FDA should delay by re-inventing the wheel. The US medical and pharmaceutical lobby is intent on ripping off the public.


I don't understand this logic. Don't we know that in the absence of any controls on the process and the end product, rip off artists will be the first ones that act without "delay"?! And that there can be genuine production defects that can go uncaught, often in large batches ?

Lets say I buy one of these spurious antibody testing kits and come out (falsely) negative, so I consider myself virus free and then spread it to a bunch of people in my family, friends, around town, some of whom later die. Who will you hold responsible?

More importantly can a country take a chance and let that happen in the name of avoiding delay and end up causing precisely the dangers that we are trying to prevent?

In times of crisis, its critical to resist the temptation to cut corners. Thats why so many countries including France (where we have a popular rebel Dr champion for it) are so cautious about HCQ use though it has been around for ages.

Thats also the reason why I remain skeptical about garage made "ventilators", be it a GM garage or a Tesla garage. If they were so easy that one could jugaad his way out to making them, many companies would have already been making them and they would be a lot cheaper. I would want these to be rigorously tested, certified and QCd, including their ability to train users, support and service the product ably, before hooking on patients in near death condition on to them.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby amar_p » 26 Apr 2020 13:46

g.sarkar wrote:
amar_p wrote:Americans agitating against China should simply stop buying needless Chinese junk. Consumer behaviour the world over is fuelling China's exports, companies are simply cashing in.

If you work in a low paying job (or two) and have a family with small children, you have to buy from dollar or 99c stores just to survive. China virus will make this situation only worse. The only way is to tax goods coming from China. Another way to do this is follow China's own example of denying market share by hook or by crook.
Gautam


What will happen to the price of Chinese items at the dollar or 99c stores if say 30% tax is imposed on them. Would they become more affordable to poor Americans?

My point is, America is propped up by consumer credit which encourages conspicuous and wasteful consumption. When the goods thus consumed are largely imported from China, Amercans are indebting themselves indirectly to China. That is the root of the problem which needs to change. The same problem exists albeit to a lesser extent in Europe and other developed countries that import consumer goods heavily from China.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 26 Apr 2020 16:12

amar_p wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:If you work in a low paying job (or two) and have a family with small children, you have to buy from dollar or 99c stores just to survive. China virus will make this situation only worse. The only way is to tax goods coming from China. Another way to do this is follow China's own example of denying market share by hook or by crook.
Gautam

What will happen to the price of Chinese items at the dollar or 99c stores if say 30% tax is imposed on them. Would they become more affordable to poor Americans?
My point is, America is propped up by consumer credit which encourages conspicuous and wasteful consumption. When the goods thus consumed are largely imported from China, Amercans are indebting themselves indirectly to China. That is the root of the problem which needs to change. The same problem exists albeit to a lesser extent in Europe and other developed countries that import consumer goods heavily from China.


In the mean time the mango population will buy from the cheapest source sans politics. That is practical capitalism. As long as cheap Chinese goods are available in the US, poorer people and also others seeking a bargain will buy them, with no questions asked.
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Aditya_V » 26 Apr 2020 17:22

amar_p wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:If you work in a low paying job (or two) and have a family with small children, you have to buy from dollar or 99c stores just to survive. China virus will make this situation only worse. The only way is to tax goods coming from China. Another way to do this is follow China's own example of denying market share by hook or by crook.
Gautam


What will happen to the price of Chinese items at the dollar or 99c stores if say 30% tax is imposed on them. Would they become more affordable to poor Americans?

My point is, America is propped up by consumer credit which encourages conspicuous and wasteful consumption. When the goods thus consumed are largely imported from China, Amercans are indebting themselves indirectly to China. That is the root of the problem which needs to change. The same problem exists albeit to a lesser extent in Europe and other developed countries that import consumer goods heavily from China.


America has the largest and best military, controls a lot of Tech, my email servers, key manufacturing like Civil Aviation etc. China has cashed in and some of the key stuff. In India we are too selfish and large section of population wants to make money from other people's work. That's the root of the problem

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KJo » 26 Apr 2020 19:18

g.sarkar wrote:
amar_p wrote:What will happen to the price of Chinese items at the dollar or 99c stores if say 30% tax is imposed on them. Would they become more affordable to poor Americans?
My point is, America is propped up by consumer credit which encourages conspicuous and wasteful consumption. When the goods thus consumed are largely imported from China, Amercans are indebting themselves indirectly to China. That is the root of the problem which needs to change. The same problem exists albeit to a lesser extent in Europe and other developed countries that import consumer goods heavily from China.


In the mean time the mango population will buy from the cheapest source sans politics. That is practical capitalism. As long as cheap Chinese goods are available in the US, poorer people and also others seeking a bargain will buy them, with no questions asked.
Gautam


Yes. The only way is for the Govt to step in and impose a tax on Chinese goods. A US manufacturer has an unfair situation and cannot compete with a Chinese supplier. so the Chinese supplier takes advantage and supplies low quality junk just because he can. Consumer loses as he has no other option. This is a flaw in capitalism and a workaround is being exploited.

The only way out is to impose a tax to level the field. I would pay more for good quality US products and to get the US out of this chinese trap.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 27 Apr 2020 00:02

^^^Therein lies the problem. There has been real inflation on food, housing and transportation. Additionally, states and the fed have imposed fees (additional taxes) on all sorts of things (tires, car batteries, cell phones, internet service, cable TV, etc). The US median family income is $75K/year. Families have gotten by with cheap imported Chinese consumer goods. Tax it and inflation will run amok at a time when unemployment is shooting up.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chanakyaa » 28 Apr 2020 20:17

For those interested in finance/econ. There has been lot of news on shortage of tissue paper in the US, often joked as unique first world problem. Here is some perspective (from Mises) on whether it is a demand or supply issue...

Cause
ANTI-GOUGING LAWS ARE THE REASON THERE IS A TOILET PAPER SHORTAGE

Rebuttal/Counter
Freedom in Prices Ends Shortages. Even with Toilet Paper.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 30 Apr 2020 08:00

https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/us-comm ... -concerns/
US Commerce Department Tightens China Export Controls on Military Use Concerns
The new rule expands the scope of existing export restrictions to cover all military end-users in China.
By Ankit Panda, April 30, 2020

The United States Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) announced new rules on Tuesday that will tighten the export of certain sensitive technologies to end-users in China on fears that they might find their way into use by the Chinese armed forces.
The rules, which were published in the Federal Register on Tuesday, cover a range of goods that will require review by regulators before being approved for overseas export. In addition to China, the rules cover Russia and Venezuela. The latest update expands the licensing requirements for export to China to cover all “military end users,” the Commerce Department rule’s summary notes.
“Certain entities in China, Russia and Venezuela have sought to circumvent America’s export controls, and undermine American interests in general, and so we will remain vigilant to ensure US technology does not get into the wrong hands,” U.S. Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross said on Monday.
The Commerce Department notes that the annual license applications for military end-user approval from Russia, China, and Venezuela are already very low. “BIS receives very few license applications for military end uses in China or for military end uses or end users in Russia or Venezuela (approximately two to three annually),” the rule listing notes.
“BIS believes that the reason for this small number is the likelihood that that such applications will be denied,” the rule adds. “BIS anticipates that broadening the range of items and parties subject to these military end-use and end-user license requirements will increase the number of licenses submitted,” it continues.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby hanumadu » 30 Apr 2020 11:18

Trump seems to be forgetting he won because a lot of liberals, as in true liberals not far left lunatics, voted for him. He seems to be taking them for granted and pandering to the far right lunatics and losing the liberals who voted for him. The pandemic is proving to be beyond his capability to handle.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 01 May 2020 10:14

amar_p wrote:I don't understand this logic. Don't we know that in the absence of any controls on the process and the end product, rip off artists will be the first ones that act without "delay"?! And that there can be genuine production defects that can go uncaught, often in large batches ?

Lets say I buy one of these spurious antibody testing kits and come out (falsely) negative, so I consider myself virus free and then spread it to a bunch of people in my family, friends, around town, some of whom later die. Who will you hold responsible?

More importantly can a country take a chance and let that happen in the name of avoiding delay and end up causing precisely the dangers that we are trying to prevent?

In times of crisis, its critical to resist the temptation to cut corners. Thats why so many countries including France (where we have a popular rebel Dr champion for it) are so cautious about HCQ use though it has been around for ages.

Thats also the reason why I remain skeptical about garage made "ventilators", be it a GM garage or a Tesla garage. If they were so easy that one could jugaad his way out to making them, many companies would have already been making them and they would be a lot cheaper. I would want these to be rigorously tested, certified and QCd, including their ability to train users, support and service the product ably, before hooking on patients in near death condition on to them.


1. If an antibody test is coming from a known supplier in a developed country, and meets your specifications, then only random batch testing is needed. It is similar to buying car tires from a foreign manufacturer. The consequences of failure of either is death. An antibody test may only be 90% accurate but is better than no test. A COVID-19 PCR test costs anywhere between $36-$55 in the US. An antibody test may only be $5-$6. Just because you've been tested by the PCR method once doesn't mean you won't get COVID-19. In many cases, anyone who works in a hospital or public place will need to be tested at least once a week to continue to show they've not been infected. The antibody test is cheap in enough to procure in bulk for many workers to be continually tested.

2. You're conflating an electro-mechanical device such as a ventilator for an antibody test which simply works by checking the sample with a chemical buffer. It is far less complex and doesn't require electrical power. Even ventilators vary. Those used for intubation may need greater pressure and higher percentage of pure oxygen as opposed to a ventilator used with a face mask.

The bottom line is that US medical and pharmaceutical lobby is a huge rip-off. At some point, perhaps get exacerbated by the Corona Virus, will cause the medical system will break where the federal government will be unable to bail out hospitals, insurance companies and pharma companies.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 02 May 2020 04:58

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/p ... china.html
In Sudden Shift, U.S. and China Seek to Cooperate
Several of President Trump’s top aides are advising him to work with China on the coronavirus pandemic, but national security officials are skeptical the truce will hold.
By Edward Wong and Ana Swanson, April 2, 2020

WASHINGTON — For weeks, President Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo forcefully used the controversial terms “Chinese virus” and “Wuhan virus” in public and said they intended to hold Beijing responsible for the crippling coronavirus pandemic.
Now, they have avoided using those phrases, and the administration is welcoming planeloads of medical equipment from China. On Wednesday, Mr. Trump was effusive in describing his relationship with President Xi Jinping of China, whom he spoke with last week.
“The relationship with China is a good one, and my relationship with him is really good,” Mr. Trump told reporters. The president added that he “will always assume the best” of China’s leaders. Asked whether American intelligence agencies have assessed that China falsified case and fatality numbers over the virus, Mr. Trump said, “I’m not an accountant from China.”
As the pandemic spreads, relations between the United States and China have whipsawed wildly. Washington and Beijing were at each other’s throats for weeks over the outbreak, which began in Wuhan, China, and was initially covered up by Communist Party officials.
But in recent days, the two sides have settled on a tentative, uneasy truce. They have agreed to hold fire on public sniping over the virus and to look for ways to cooperate to slow the contagion.
Some American officials had recognized that the deteriorating state of relations — at the worst point since the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989 — was impeding global efforts to fight the pandemic. Several of Mr. Trump’s aides quietly reached out to Chinese officials through American businessmen with extensive ties in China, according to people familiar with the efforts. National security officials and China hawks in the State Department are skeptical the détente will last, but several top advisers to Mr. Trump have advocated restraint — notably Jared Kushner, Mr. Trump’s son-in-law; Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary; and Larry Kudlow, the director of the National Economic Council.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby disha » 02 May 2020 06:13

g.sarkar wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-china.html
In Sudden Shift, U.S. and China Seek to Cooperate
Several of President Trump’s top aides are advising him to work with China on the coronavirus pandemic, but national security officials are skeptical the truce will hold.
By Edward Wong and Ana Swanson, April 2, 2020


That's one-month-old news. From the stables of racist NYTimes to support their Chinese paymasters.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ramana » 02 May 2020 07:07

In all the Covid news dont lose sight of Trump vs Biden in November 2020.

That's the purpose of this thread. Disha can we figure out how to have a running poll next 6 months?

Maybe run it on Twitter and post links here?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 02 May 2020 07:30

disha wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-china.html
In Sudden Shift, U.S. and China Seek to Cooperate
Several of President Trump’s top aides are advising him to work with China on the coronavirus pandemic, but national security officials are skeptical the truce will hold.
By Edward Wong and Ana Swanson, April 2, 2020

That's one-month-old news. From the stables of racist NYTimes to support their Chinese paymasters.

I apologize, I misread it as May 2, not April 2. I was convinced that DT was blowing hot and cold at the same time as he just threatened China with new tariffs: https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/05 ... china.html.
I am so much used to hearing him say two opposite things simultaneously, that it was a natural mistake.
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 04 May 2020 08:26

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/01/tr ... rade-deal/
Trump Is Dangerously Predictable With China
Whether he is cozying up to China or scapegoating it, Trump has consistently placed his personal political interests over those of the United States.
BY NED PRICE | MAY 1, 2020

As a candidate in 2016, U.S. President Donald Trump offered a glimpse of his future foreign policy. Even more than putting “America first,” his goal was for the United States to become unpredictable in world affairs. “We must as a nation be more unpredictable,” Trump told his campaign audience. “We are totally predictable. … We have to be unpredictable. And we have to be unpredictable starting now.”
In many ways, Trump seems to have delivered on this promise, however ill-advised it was in the first place. He has threatened to annihilate at least two countries, impetuously fired and hired senior officials, tweeted apparently classified imagery, and abruptly announced—and then reversed—troop movements. These and many other steps might have startled even Richard Nixon, the president said to have pioneered the so-called madman theory in U.S. foreign policy.
At first glance, U.S. China policy under Trump fits this mold. It has been variously described as “topsy-turvy,” “impulsive,” and “erratic.” After all, Trump during his time in office has engaged in a head-spinning routine of confrontation and concession. Just as he engaged in an aggressive trade war with Beijing, for example, he spoke of deep admiration of and friendship with Chinese President Xi Jinping. This year alone has been a rollercoaster in relations. In January, Trump spoke of his “love” for Xi—only to subsequently fuel attacks on China by labeling the novel coronavirus the “Chinese virus” and calling for China to pay reparations for the pandemic.
However erratic Trump’s positions on China appear at the surface, an honest examination of his engagement with Beijing reveals not unpredictability but a dangerous steadfastness. Trump has consistently placed his personal political interests over the national interest of the United States—even when the stakes couldn’t be higher.
Take Trump’s approach to Xi in early 2020, as the coronavirus was ravaging the central Chinese city of Wuhan and starting to spread beyond the country’s borders. During all that time, Trump was consistently fawning over the Chinese leader. By one count, Trump publicly praised Xi—including his supposed transparency—15 times between January and March, even as the U.S. intelligence community and his own White House advisors were sounding dire warnings about the impending pandemic and China’s handling of it.
.....
Gautam

habal
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby habal » 04 May 2020 12:12

So is Covid19 a joint democrat deep state & PRC PLA endeavour to embarass economic credentials of Trump 1.0 ??

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby disha » 04 May 2020 20:25

ramana wrote:In all the Covid news dont lose sight of Trump vs Biden in November 2020.

That's the purpose of this thread. Disha can we figure out how to have a running poll next 6 months?

Maybe run it on Twitter and post links here?


Just want to clarify. Running poll of peoples preferences on next US prez 2020?

I think we can set up here as well on Twitter.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vijayk » 05 May 2020 01:57

write in for Tulsi

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ramana » 05 May 2020 12:13

disha wrote:
ramana wrote:In all the Covid news dont lose sight of Trump vs Biden in November 2020.

That's the purpose of this thread. Disha can we figure out how to have a running poll next 6 months?

Maybe run it on Twitter and post links here?


Just want to clarify. Running poll of peoples preferences on next US prez 2020?

I think we can set up here as well on Twitter.



Yes. Running poll of people's preferences on next US President 2020.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby amar_p » 11 May 2020 16:16

The Coronavirus Was an Emergency Until Trump Found Out Who Was Dying

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/americas-racial-contract-showing/611389/

Worth a read !

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 11 May 2020 19:16

amar_p wrote:The Coronavirus Was an Emergency Until Trump Found Out Who Was Dying

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/americas-racial-contract-showing/611389/

Worth a read !


The Atlantic is not a credible news source and is very heavily slanted left They’ve written articles about India which could have easily been sourced from Paki sources.

It’s financed by Steve Jobs widow, or at least she’s a major investor to keep it afloat, when it should have shut down several years ago. Bottom line - it’s not worth a read.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby darshan » 11 May 2020 19:20

They certainly would not have apologized or called it discriminatory or something if it was AIT or caste relating to Hindus.

US college apologises after Islamists threaten professor over quiz stating terrorists strive to emulate prophet Muhammad
https://www.opindia.com/2020/05/scottsd ... ammad/amp/

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 May 2020 19:41

Mort Walker wrote:
amar_p wrote:The Coronavirus Was an Emergency Until Trump Found Out Who Was Dying

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/americas-racial-contract-showing/611389/

Worth a read !


The Atlantic is not a credible news source and is very heavily slanted left They’ve written articles about India which could have easily been sourced from Paki sources.

It’s financed by Steve Jobs widow, or at least she’s a major investor to keep it afloat, when it should have shut down several years ago. Bottom line - it’s not worth a read.


“Left bias”, “paki” etc. are abstractions that put things in boxes and categories, and us in partisan bubbles. That is useful to some extent, but it will ultimately let us down if we as Indian jingoes are to fight our way out of the box the world has locked us in. We are not going to get there by feeding our love of confirmation bias.

Atlantic or NYT or WaPo are well worth our skepticism, and in many cases, contempt. But, till we develop our own news, analytical and research institutions with comparable reach, scope and power, we should avoid the “four legs good, two legs bad” trap with respect to Western media. If we believe that Democrats are hostile to India, it doesn’t follow—if one is a *Bharat*-rakshak—that Trump is a Savior for India and he must be protected and insulated from all criticism at all costs, on this *Bharat*-rakshak forum. This is not *Trump*-rakshak forum.

If we learn something negative about Trump or any US leader or institution that would serve Bharat’s core interests, we should be prepared to countenance the use of that knowledge to destroy that entity, be it Trump or whoever / whatever, in a heartbeat. Otherwise we have no need to be on this forum. It is Bharat uber alles, no apologies.

At the very least, if we are serious about the fight, we should be open to learning what & how the enemy thinks.

I recommend reading the article with a critical and skeptical eye. And making up one’s own mind.

The larger goal should be to develop and weaponize independent, critical-thinking skills (and no, most of us don’t already have them, despite the high esteem in which we like to hold ourselves) that can glean useful information and understanding from a variety of sources while recognizing, and filtering for, biases, ulterior motives and so on.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ramana » 11 May 2020 20:39

KLNM, Why don't you take advantage of lockdown and do the critical thinking skills on that article?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 May 2020 21:38

ramana wrote:KLNM, Why don't you take advantage of lockdown and do the critical thinking skills on that article?


Unfortunately for me, there is no "lockdown dividend" of time to be taken advantage of, usual pressures continue.

Still, I have read it, basically it presents a particular very emotive model of racial relations as a prism with which to view the recent events in the news. It spells out that it is viewing the matter through a racial-relations prism. It is up to the reader to adopt or reject the prism, or ask for more information. That by itself counts for some integrity points in my book--make your bias (your prism) clear for everyone to see and judge. It is one step above pandering to confirmation bias--pander, but make it clear that you are pandering, that way the reader has a chance to stop himself and ask whether he is being pandered to.

On the other hand, tying of the racial bias prism (which is mostly credible) to Trump is a bit of a stretch--he didn't invent it or create the racial bias, and while he isn't condemning it, I don't think it is right to say that he is encouraging it, at least in the way it is presented in left-liberal media. (My opinion: Trump is not what one would call a thoughtful or cerebral guy, and evaluating him on the scale of "what would a thoughtful or cerebral guy do or say?' misses the point and also doesn't seem to serve the purpose, if the purpose is to politically hurt Trump) A less anti-Trump writer may have put Trump's personal role in this in a different perspective, and maybe out of the headline itself (which was probably written to get people to read this very long article and have discussions like this one. I mean, probably if the headline was "reader, look in the mirror, you have a problem of racial bias: it wouldn't get as many reads. ).

(There is another article on the same recent event with a different lens, explicitly rejecting the racial narrative and objecting to pandering to the emotions, for contrast:

https://spectator.org/the-atrocity-narr ... ud-arbery/
)

In this sense, it differs from most of the Atlantic mag articles on India, where opinions and one-sided views are reported as facts, and nowhere is there is any effort to spell out what they mean by "Hindu Nationalism" or "Islamophobia", "Secularism" or how the terms like "Nationalism" may have different meanings in India versus the West. Lots of key facts are hidden or sometimes plain lied about.

Usually, I find that "premium" Western media's articles about their own society tend to be of somewhat higher quality than their coverage of Indian topics. Probably because there is more accountability for the stories about the West. Indians buy the content of the India stories based on the brand, and in turn that means Westerners who have to deal with Indians don't need to bother with requiring higher standards of integrity in India-stories from the "premium" media--where is the incremental benefit in going to that trouble?

From a BRF pov, I would say, it would be a good article to file away, for use in counterattacking viciously when, not if, US State dept or other entity under a likely 2020-24 Trump presidency launches the next series of attacks against India for being Nazis towards the Muslims / Christians / Duleets and so on. Or maybe manipulate the Iranians into doing it, whatever. Those are details of chankianism. Maybe even for RAW to reach out back-channel to the author and quietly subvert his articles in a way that would serve India's purpose. Nothing personal, India can still show love to Trump, but the weapon is there for use when it is needed. Just like acharya Chanakya taught us long ago. From a BRF pov, Trump is like Parvata Raja, a useful braggart, lout and lecher to be used to gain Indian dominance and discarded when he has served his purpose.

I'll do more if / when I have a chance to steal some more time.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 11 May 2020 22:19

KLNMurthy wrote:“Left bias”, “paki” etc. are abstractions that put things in boxes and categories, and us in partisan bubbles. That is useful to some extent, but it will ultimately let us down if we as Indian jingoes are to fight our way out of the box the world has locked us in. We are not going to get there by feeding our love of confirmation bias.

Atlantic or NYT or WaPo are well worth our skepticism, and in many cases, contempt. But, till we develop our own news, analytical and research institutions with comparable reach, scope and power, we should avoid the “four legs good, two legs bad” trap with respect to Western media. If we believe that Democrats are hostile to India, it doesn’t follow—if one is a *Bharat*-rakshak—that Trump is a Savior for India and he must be protected and insulated from all criticism at all costs, on this *Bharat*-rakshak forum. This is not *Trump*-rakshak forum.

If we learn something negative about Trump or any US leader or institution that would serve Bharat’s core interests, we should be prepared to countenance the use of that knowledge to destroy that entity, be it Trump or whoever / whatever, in a heartbeat. Otherwise we have no need to be on this forum. It is Bharat uber alles, no apologies.

At the very least, if we are serious about the fight, we should be open to learning what & how the enemy thinks.

I recommend reading the article with a critical and skeptical eye. And making up one’s own mind.

The larger goal should be to develop and weaponize independent, critical-thinking skills (and no, most of us don’t already have them, despite the high esteem in which we like to hold ourselves) that can glean useful information and understanding from a variety of sources while recognizing, and filtering for, biases, ulterior motives and so on.


Left and Paki bias are legitimate criticisms and are worthwhile of scorn. Publications like "The Atlantic" fall into the same category as "The Wire" and "Dawn". They simply are not credible. It isn't a matter of DDM, but one of patent falsehoods which aren't worth the time to click on. In the US, the NYT has some useful articles, even though they are slanted left, but the WaPo is beyond reproach.

This is not a Trump Rakshak forum, but it happens at this time that parts of Trump's agenda coincides with India's agenda. There is no business of uber alles, it is one of coinciding interests. The Democratic Party and the traditional neo-conservative Republicans all fall into a constant war and beholden to Chinese interests. Neither are desirable, but the Democratic Party is beholden to the views of the Islamists. Take a look at Indian orgin US congress members like Ro Khanna and Pramila Jaypal. Both are completely reprehensible as the racist xenophobes of the Republican party.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ricky_v » 13 May 2020 06:17


Mort Walker
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 14 May 2020 05:14

After Biden's statement as posted on his website. I think being a Trump Rakshak is most appropriate now. Biden wouldn't dare say anything negative about Israel or Jewish people, especially in a written statement.


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