Understanding the US - Again

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abhik
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby abhik » 23 May 2020 22:12

ricky_v wrote:https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/499275-trump-admin-has-looked-at-conducting-first-us-nuclear-test-since-90s
Members of the Trump administration have explored conducting the first U.S. nuclear test since 1992 in a move that would mark a reversal from a decades-long freeze on such tests.

A senior administration official and two former officials familiar with the deliberations told The Washington Post that discussions were held at a meeting of senior officials from the top national security agencies last Friday. The conversations came in response to accusations that Russia and China are running low-yield nuclear tests, though no evidence has emerged to support the claims.

A senior administration official told the Post that showing Russia and China, two top adversaries, that the U.S. could conduct a “rapid test” could grant Washington leverage in seeking a trilateral nuclear deal.

Ah, so we get relegated to tier 2/3 power status.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 23 May 2020 22:25

If the US tests, then India needs to test multiple fusion devices capable 100KT to 10MT.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby dinesh_kimar » 23 May 2020 22:32

^ To borrow Haridas ji's line of thought, We need to test devices designed in the 1998 timeframe for the full 200 kt, which our people were promised by Parliament.

Also, since reliability has to be established, scale up of devices has to be established, data has to be generated, triggers have to be perfected, wat we need per my layman understanding is the following:

-2 x 350 kt - 500 kt tests of identical devices for max. yield, Reliability, upscaling, data generation, MIRV / weaponisation of strategic payloads.

- 4 -6 low yield devices with different triggers, to generate data and perfect current generation mechanisms. To generate a knowledge base for a National ignition facility.

- Maybe a megaton payload/ neutron bomb / EMP device if required.

So, to do these tests we need 3 shafts, 2 for large devices and 1 for bundling all triggers together, instrumented off course.

The shafts need to be 1900-2100 m deep , in Rocky mountain, atleast 100 km away from civilian population.

Need high end tunnel boring machines for these deep shafts, China localised these in 2008-2010 timeframe, there's a Chinese paper on the net

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 23 May 2020 23:12

India needs to conduct large tests in the Andamans not Pokhran range.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 26 May 2020 09:08

https://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/Intern ... China.html
Is The U.S. Prepared For War With China?
By Gregory R. Copley - May 25, 2020

Mid-2020 saw the world at war, actual strategic war as far as the Forbidden Palace in Beijing was concerned. This was almost disbelievingly acknowledged by some in Washington, DC, London, Canberra, Ottawa, New Delhi, and Tokyo. It was a war that was viewed tentatively and with incredulity in much of the West because it was a war of a very new type. And it was a war in which the West — for the first time in a century or more — did not write the rules of engagement.
Indeed, because it had emerged from covert war to overt war, the People’s Republic of China (PRC) leadership was aware, certainly by early May 2020 (and probably even by January of that year), that it had to move quickly to use the cover of the global coronavirus preoccupation and lockdown in order to make and consolidate some key strategic advances while it could do so unopposed. These initial objectives for Beijing included:
Locking down control of the autonomous Hong Kong region — a significant source of the PRC’s access to foreign exchange generation — once and for all, and hoping to do so with minimal foreign reprisal;
Rebuilding a PRC position whereby it could resume domination of global supply chain origination manufacturing, something which it had essentially been losing even before the 2020 crisis;
Consolidate military domination of the South China Sea region;
Break up the revival of a coherent US alliance structure in the Indo Pacific (including the Middle East) and ensure that there were no viable options to allow the Russian Federation to expand its rapprochement with the West. Essentially, it needed to end the prospect that the “second Silk Road”, dominated by Russia and supported by Japan (in particular) would not be strategically threatening to Beijing;
Make progress in shortening the timescale for a military-led option to remove Taiwan — the Republic of China (ROC) — from any chance of depending on strategic military cover from the United States and Japan.
There were no immediate, clear cut successes visible for Beijing by late May 2020, but the urgency was there, and so was the momentum. The PRC had no option but to make gains quickly, and it was clear that it had, despite reviving fear, distrust, and counteraction by the US, UK, and Australia, in particular. Beijing’s economic position and outlook, worsening for at least the previous decade, could not sustain the PRC’s strategic competitiveness visàvis the US and its allies much longer unless the crisis could be used to actually ruin the relative economic and military positions of its opponents.
It was, then, a decision that, if Beijing could not succeed in recovering its economic (and therefore strategic) competitiveness, then all others needed to lose their ability to compete. It was a war plan consciously written by the Communist Party of China (CPC), and particularly in the image of the CPC and PRC leader, Xi Jinping. It had its ideological origins in the globalism pioneered by the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), but it took on Maoist characteristics (consolidated by the updated Maoism of Xi Jinping), including the clarity of the 1999 doctrinal watershed of the publication of the Unrestricted Warfare total war strategy.
So the new war doctrine — the 21st Century version of “total war” — was a long time in coming. Its development was also, most importantly, an evolution of the Allied victory of World War II, with its development of global supply chain thinking: logistics and industrialization.
The CPC, starting with Deng Xiao-ping, learned to truly create “socialism with Chinese characteristics”, but that meant something very much modernized over historical Marxist-oriented interpretations. This led, progressively, to the understanding by Beijing that it needed to rebuild the traditional “global” supply chain pattern through which the Middle Kingdom had made itself the central power through much of ancient history. Its supplicant, or tributary vassals, had depended on the Silk Routes, overland through Eurasia and by sea through the Indo-Pacific (and beyond), and must be made to do so again.
This became Xi Jinping’s “One Belt, One Road” (OBOR) initiative, which in May 2017 became the “Belt & Road Initiative” (BRI) when it was clear that Moscow, Tokyo, and Washington were attempting to create a “second Silk Road” across Russia, bypassing Beijing’s attempted domination of the South China Sea (to control the Silk Road at Sea). But in the period up to mid-2020, the “new total war” was viewed — particularly in the West — as nebulous. This new total war format is, by definition, amorphous, and deliberately so, as I note in my new book, The New Total War of the 21st Century and the Trigger of the Fear Pandemic. Direct, kinetic confrontation — the measure by which the uniformed military and much of society viewed “war” — was absent, although the threat of it had finally emerged by April/May 2020, and this galvanized thinking among Western leadership.
It even generated enough alarm to see the deep internal political schisms in the US and Australia heal at least to a degree. In the US, the emerging threat saw Democratic Party and Republican Party politicians coming together in relative unanimity — largely unreported in the US media — to reject the PRC’s threat to US and Western interests. It also caused the UK Government to finally be able to move, with broad public acceptance, to end the PRC’s strategic leverage in Britain, including ending the question of reliance on the PRC’s 5G communications technology from Huawei.
......
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mollick.R » 26 May 2020 11:11

dinesh_kimar wrote:^

So, to do these tests we need 3 shafts, 2 for large devices and 1 for bundling all triggers together, instrumented off course.

The shafts need to be 1900-2100 m deep , in Rocky mountain, atleast 100 km away from civilian population.

Need high end tunnel boring machines for these deep shafts, China localised these in 2008-2010 timeframe, there's a Chinese paper on the net


TBMs for digging vertical shafts :shock: :?: :?:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby dinesh_kimar » 26 May 2020 19:03

^ ah yes.

I read it on a paper on the net. The best ones come from Germany, and the Chinese have bought in/ indegenised it quite well.

The paper is in fact written by a Chinese scientist, and is quite good.

The shafts at Pokhran were 200-300 m , dug with great difficulty by the Army, and takes lot of effort and a few months to complete. Water logging is also a problem, apparently.

The really deep shafts offer more effective radiation sealing, as many more Tons of debris collapse, leaving a more difficult and longer path for various radiations to overcome before (if ever) reaching the surface.

Also, with really deep shafts approaching 2 km depth vs our Pokhran shaft of 200-300m ( 10 times deeper), higher bomb yields/ multiple devices can be tested.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby dinesh_kimar » 26 May 2020 19:46

I'm searching for the refrence, try to post it.

"The Development of Deep Borehole Permanent-magnet Motor
Direct Drive Top-Driving Drilling Rig" by Liu Jiaronga, Ran Lingjie

This is one paper for development of 2000m drilling machine called Deep Bore Drilling machine in China. They are used for mining, oil exploration, rail and military projects ( nuclear not explicitly mentioned, but it's an option).

The German company is Herrenknecht AG.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby dinesh_kimar » 26 May 2020 19:58

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/a-pheno ... ft-sinking

Above is an account of how we dug the Pokhran shaft

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vijayk » 26 May 2020 22:10

https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/the- ... challenge/
The Chinese Challenge
America has never faced such an adversary.

For thousands of years China’s internal weaknesses—natural disaster, famine, plague, civil unrest, and foreign invasion—kept its attention inward. We are now at the greatest turning point in Chinese history since its unification in the 3rd century B.C. China is turning outward—but doesn’t want to rule you. Like the Borg in Star Trek, it wants to assimilate you.

President Trump is right to insist that America’s status quo with China can’t continue. He campaigned against their systemic theft of U.S. intellectual property and the migration of our manufacturing to China. He reversed 20 years of benign neglect toward China’s challenge to our strategic dominance and took vigorous steps to check China’s expansion. But he hasn’t succeeded. Thus far he has addressed symptoms rather than causes. Our trade war with China settled into an uneasy truce by the end of 2019, with modest damage to both economies but no clear winner.


We aren’t facing drunken, corrupt Soviet bureaucrats, but a Mandarin elite cherry-picked from the brightest university graduates of the world’s largest country. America confronts something far more daunting than moth-eaten Marxism: a 5,000-year-old empire that is pragmatic, curious, adaptive, ruthless—and hungry. China’s current regime is cruel, but no crueler than the Qin dynasty that buried a million conscript laborers in the Great Wall. China was, and remains, utterly ruthless.

Huawei provides the template for the new Chinese empire. The company bankrupted its competition and hired their talent. It dominates R&D in mobile broadband because its 50,000 foreign employees do most of the basic research. For the first time in its long history, China has succeeded in assimilating a critical mass of the West’s scientific and engineering elite and harnessing them to its global ambitions.

Mobile broadband is just the beginning. China’s goal is to own the “control points” in every sphere of economic life. Think of industrial robots that talk to each other over 5G networks and employ artificial intelligence to design production techniques without human input; medical diagnostics drawing on continuously-updated vital signs and genetic histories of a billion people; mining robots directed by white-coated technicians with virtual reality visors; and a dozen other disruptive technologies made possible by the marriage of broadband and A.I.


Some analysts claim China’s economy will suffer a debilitating debt crisis. But the numbers don’t support this view. According to the Bank for International Settlements, China and America have about the same debt burden. Total credit to government, households, and nonfinancial corporations stands at 261% of GDP in China and 249% of GDP in the United States. The big difference lies in who owes the debt. Central government debt is about half of GDP in China, but about 100% of GDP in the United States. By contrast, private corporate debt is only about 75% of GDP in the U.S. compared to about 150% of GDP in China.

China’s financial system has many problems, to be sure. It is overly dependent on giant state banks that are accustomed to handing out loans to state-owned companies without asking questions. This encourages inefficiency and corruption. The Chinese authorities allow private companies to fail rather than encourage banks to paper over their problems. Seventeen billion dollars of Chinese corporate bonds defaulted during the first 11 months of 2019, a small number compared to the overall $4.4 trillion onshore corporate bond market.

Most Chinese corporate debt, though, funded infrastructure which, for the most part, can support the debt burden. China’s way of funding infrastructure spending explains most of the difference in debt concentration. In the United States, federal, state, and local governments fund infrastructure spending out of tax revenues or borrowing; in China, state-owned companies borrow from state-owned banks to fund infrastructure.

In a 2017 study for Asia Times I calculated that two-thirds of the net debt owed by non-financial companies in China’s benchmark equity index, the Shenzhen 300, was owed by only 22 companies. Almost all are involved in basic infrastructure (energy, communications infrastructure, shipping, airlines, or metals). This Chinese corporate indebtedness should be viewed as “public works” investment by the Chinese sovereign.

After borrowing roughly the same amount relative to the size of their respective economies, what did China and the United States get in return? America’s national debt rose above $20 trillion, not counting an estimated $46 trillion more in unfunded Social Security and Medicare liabilities. We spent most of this money on transfer payments. China used its debt to move 550 million people from countryside to city and to build the world’s newest and biggest infrastructure.


China’s challenge is formidable. We are competing with 1.4 billion intelligent and industrious people. Chinese schoolchildren turn up at 7:30 a.m. and leave at 5:00 p.m. Ten million Chinese teenagers take the college entrance exams each year and prep 12 hours a day for two years to gain acceptance at a good university. The Asian work ethic explains why 28% of students at America’s Ivy League colleges are Asians, although Asians comprise just 5.6% of the U.S. population. We have educated a world-class engineering faculty for Chinese universities, the best of which are at par with the best American universities.

But we are well past the point where a one-to-one comparison of Chinese and American technical capacity can explain the strategic balance. China has recruited scores of thousands of the best Western scientists and technicians. Huawei has created a business model unique in Chinese history, with 50,000 foreign employees and research centers in two dozen Western countries. It is not a Chinese but an imperial company, a sort of technologically-driven horde that produces a snowball effect. As it grows, it crushes the competition and absorbs their talent.

Baghdad’s fall to the Mongols in 1258 offers an object lesson. The city of a million people sheltered behind 18-foot walls, and the Abbasid Caliph Al-Mustasim rejected Mongol demands for tribute. The Mongols were lightly armed horsemen, the Abbasids reasoned; what could they do against the 18-foot-thick walls of Baghdad? But Mongol chieftain Hulagu Khan brought with him 1,000 Chinese artillery experts, and it took them just three weeks to breach the walls, after which the Mongols made a giant pyramid of the heads of Baghdad’s inhabitants. Today’s Chinese are not the Mongols, to be sure, but the analogy holds: the Chinese have acquired the technical means from the West to ruin us. China’s critics complain it has stolen Western technology. Far more dangerous is the fact that China has learned to assimilate the West’s best talent.

Can America remain the world’s most powerful, productive, and innovative country? We have faced this challenge before—during World War II, when the Arsenal of Democracy overwhelmed the Axis; during the Space Race, when we overcame an early Russian lead to land men on the moon; and during the Reagan Administration, when the digital revolution leapfrogged Russia’s illusory advantages in military technology. We require a national effort on the scale of John F. Kennedy’s Moonshot and Reagan’s Strategic Defense Initiative to restore America’s decisive edge in high-tech manufacturing and military applications. If we don’t—if China surpasses the United States—we will fade into second-rate status, much like Britain in the 20th century. We will be poorer, weaker, and less secure. The choice is ours, at least for a while.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KLNMurthy » 27 May 2020 11:06

dinesh_kimar wrote:https://swarajyamag.com/defence/a-phenomenal-pokhran-mission-from-site-selection-to-shaft-sinking

Above is an account of how we dug the Pokhran shaft

In awe of Engineers. A must-read.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Ardeshir » 28 May 2020 20:48

vijayk wrote:https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/the-chinese-challenge/
The Chinese Challenge
America has never faced such an adversary.

China is a worthy adversary, but as is usual for many Americans, this author overestimates the Chinese.
Granted that the Chinese bureaucrats are not "drunken, corrupt Soviet bureaucrats, but a Mandarin elite cherry-picked from the brightest university graduates", but with all due respect, their effectiveness is being overstated.

The Chinese bureaucracy is based on the Keju System, which incidentally influenced civil services exams in India, UK, US, Japan etc. The core idea was that of a written exam to enter the civil services, rather than hereditary positions in Imperial China. The idea of the military under a civilian bureaucracy also was part of it, so it ensure there were no military challenges to the government.
While in a place like India, despite 6 decades or so of Congress/Left leaning governments, there is at least a discernible minority of apolitical IAS/IFS officers, over 90% of high ranking Chinese civil servants are party members.
And a bureaucracy is a bureaucracy, despite what it might look like from the outside.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Suraj » 28 May 2020 21:34

OT for this thread, but the estimation of the Chinese system always strikes me as historically flawed. For sure they manage to create what looks like an effective top down system every time they do, but it falls apart spectacularly every time it does. Typically the administrative infrastructure keeps the system together when political power wanes or transitions, but in China, that has never happened.

In the list of most destructive wars by death toll, internal Chinese conflicts occupy #2, #3, #5, #6, #7, #8, #11 and #12 in the top 15 . The Chinese have not one but SIX internal conflicts that were bloodier than World War 1. I'm not even counting the Timurid conquests, which were an external one but which also affected both China and India.

Sure it's because they have lots of people, but so did India, and we're 'underachieving' as usual, without a single entry in the top 15. The scale of their internal 'rebellions' is incredible. Pretty much every 200 years or so, they lost 5-10% of their population. The worst such war in India was the Mughal-Maratha wars, and they have half a dozen conflicts with 2-6x more casualties. Their cumulative death toll from all these is north of 250M people.

It strikes me as bizarre that a system that advocates such continuity, and such great reforms from a long ago, can't avoid blowing up in its own face again and again. Not doing so again would be a huge accomplishment for them - their history says otherwise. Their history is a continuous series of beautiful, impressive and extraordinary inflating balloons that proceed to go boom one day.

This isn't a suggestion to be complacent - they are very effective when they are. But for some reason they cannot sustain a system long term, and historically the ones to suffer most are themselves.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KLNMurthy » 28 May 2020 22:15

Suraj wrote:OT for this thread, but the estimation of the Chinese system always strikes me as historically flawed. For sure they manage to create what looks like an effective top down system every time they do, but it falls apart spectacularly every time it does. Typically the administrative infrastructure keeps the system together when political power wanes or transitions, but in China, that has never happened.

In the list of most destructive wars by death toll, internal Chinese conflicts occupy #2, #3, #5, #6, #7, #8, #11 and #12 in the top 15 . The Chinese have not one but SIX internal conflicts that were bloodier than World War 1. I'm not even counting the Timurid conquests, which were an external one but which also affected both China and India.

Sure it's because they have lots of people, but so did India, and we're 'underachieving' as usual, without a single entry in the top 15. The scale of their internal 'rebellions' is incredible. Pretty much every 200 years or so, they lost 5-10% of their population. The worst such war in India was the Mughal-Maratha wars, and they have half a dozen conflicts with 2-6x more casualties. Their cumulative death toll from all these is north of 250M people.

It strikes me as bizarre that a system that advocates such continuity, and such great reforms from a long ago, can't avoid blowing up in its own face again and again. Not doing so again would be a huge accomplishment for them - their history says otherwise. Their history is a continuous series of beautiful, impressive and extraordinary inflating balloons that proceed to go boom one day.

This isn't a suggestion to be complacent - they are very effective when they are. But for some reason they cannot sustain a system long term, and historically the ones to suffer most are themselves.


I question the veracity of that site’s sources. Bangladesh genocide has a “low” estimate of 26,000? Op Polo has a “high” estimate of some 270,000?

BTW, Wikipedia has proved itself to be quite biased against India this past year. I had been a regular supporter, have decided to end my support going forward.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Suraj » 28 May 2020 23:11

I looked at the geomean figures. Those are from elsewhere, so the article is just a mathematical aggregate of numbers from others. Geomean by property doesn't handle outliers well, which suggests several sources trend to the lower end.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Yayavar » 29 May 2020 04:46

KLNMurthy wrote:
BTW, Wikipedia has proved itself to be quite biased against India this past year. I had been a regular supporter, have decided to end my support going forward.


Something I've been wrestling with as well. It is a great source for a lot of subjects but in terms of certain areas - such as above - is does come across as biased. And of course the reference can be circular - Wikipedia quoting x, x quoting y, y quoting Wikipedia etc.

Have more or less concluded that the only way is to actively participate in correcting the information as much as possible while reducing the funding. The funding is for the generic service, structure and administration. The specific areas are not by paid or funded individuals or entities. So have to be countered differently.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KLNMurthy » 29 May 2020 05:18

Yayavar wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:
BTW, Wikipedia has proved itself to be quite biased against India this past year. I had been a regular supporter, have decided to end my support going forward.


Something I've been wrestling with as well. It is a great source for a lot of subjects but in terms of certain areas - such as above - is does come across as biased. And of course the reference can be circular - Wikipedia quoting x, x quoting y, y quoting Wikipedia etc.

Have more or less concluded that the only way is to actively participate in correcting the information as much as possible while reducing the funding. The funding is for the generic service, structure and administration. The specific areas are not by paid or funded individuals or entities. So have to be countered differently.

There was a case I followed on Twitter in which opIndia folks very politely pointed out misinformation on India, with supporting docs etc. and Wikipedia management refused to make the correction. I thought the case made for changes was very sound, and could see no justification, other than prejudice and stubbornness, for refusing to make the change.

I am through cutting slack for all these privileged entities that feel no obligation to be fair to India. I don’t care that they do 90% good and only 10% (which just happens to be about India) bad, or whatever. I don’t care about being all nice and fair to these guys/ entities which steamroll over India because just they can do it with impunity.It is also not my problem to contribute my edits and fight futilely for them to be accepted (which is what happened in the opindia case). My power is limited to withdrawing my monetary support and that’s what I chose to do. Just summary judgment, no agonizing over the rights and wrongs, or over differences in perception, or flawed mechanisms, or anything.

I did the same with NPR, after the cow-urine taunt by one of their peaceful staffers. They apologized and fired her, but I don’t care. They never made a commitment to change their attitude and they didn’t change it either.

I had always made a policy of contributing money to “free” resources that I use extensively. No more. I may still choose to use these resources but they aren’t going to see a dime of my money from here on.

I recommend that other BRFites follow my example.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ricky_v » 29 May 2020 07:20

I feel like tony in scarface,am always pulled back here. Anyways, for your viewing pleasure; atleast the motive of looting is bringing citizens together
Image
Image
Image

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Prithwiraj » 29 May 2020 07:49

US is cancelling visas of thousands of Chinese grads studying in US Universities suspected of having ties with Chinese Military

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/28/us/p ... visas.html

The Trump administration plans to cancel the visas of thousands of Chinese graduate students and researchers in the United States who have direct ties to universities affiliated with the People’s Liberation Army, according to American officials with knowledge of the discussions.

The plan would be the first designed to bar the access of a category of Chinese students, who, over all, form the single largest foreign student population in the United States.

It portends possible further educational restrictions, and the Chinese government could retaliate by imposing its own visa or educational bans on Americans. The two nations have already engaged in rounds of retribution over policies involving trade, technology and media access, and relations are at their worst point in decades.

American officials are discussing ways to punish China for its passage of a new national security law intended to enable crackdowns in Hong Kong, but the plans to cancel student visas were under consideration before the crisis over the law, which was announced last week by Chinese officials. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo discussed the visa plans with President Trump on Tuesday in a White House meeting... Contd.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chanakyaa » 29 May 2020 08:20

KLNMurthy wrote:...
There was a case I followed on Twitter in which opIndia folks very politely pointed out misinformation on India, with supporting docs etc. and Wikipedia management refused to make the correction. I thought the case made for changes was very sound, and could see no justification, other than prejudice and stubbornness, for refusing to make the change...

KLN, Wikipedia has pretty bad reputation and is very well known.

(12 November 2015)
WIKIPEDIA CO-FOUNDER LARRY SANGER SAYS WEBSITE HAS BEEN 'TAKEN OVER BY TROLLS'
Wikipedia’s co-founder has said that mob rule and anti-elitism ruined the website he helped set up leading to “inmates running the asylum”. Larry Sanger said that he walked away from the internet phenomenon just one year after it began life in 2001 because it quickly became “taken over by trolls”...


(MAY 14, 2020)
Wikipedia Is Badly Biased (BY LARRY SANGER)
Wikipedia’s “NPOV” is dead. The original policy long since forgotten, Wikipedia no longer has an effective neutrality policy. There is a rewritten policy, but it endorses the utterly bankrupt canard that journalists should avoid what they call “false balance.”2 The notion that we should avoid “false balance” is directly contradictory to the original neutrality policy. As a result, even as journalists turn to opinion and activism, Wikipedia now touts controversial points of view on politics, religion, and science. Here are some examples from each of these subjects, which were easy to find, no hunting around. Many, many more could be given...(more)


Amajon, Gogle, and many other defenders of humanity are big donors to Wikipedia.
Benefactors

Now comes the fun part. Do read about the background of the current CEO of Wikipedia Foundation, which owns Wikipedia.

Katherine Maher (Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director, Leadership Team)
...
Katherine received her Bachelor’s degree in Middle Eastern and Islamic Studies in 2005 from New York University’s College of Arts and Science, after studying at the Arabic Language Institute of the American University in Cairo, Egypt, and Institut français d’études arabes de Damas (L’IFEAD) in Damascus, Syria....
Last edited by chanakyaa on 29 May 2020 08:33, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby m_saini » 29 May 2020 08:22

Trump signs executive order threatening social-media companies after Twitter fact-checked his tweets

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-s ... ias-2020-5

Trump's executive order seeks to empower federal regulators to amend a statute that gives social-media companies broad authority to moderate speech on their platforms.

The order seeks to create new regulations for how social-media companies are allowed to moderate speech, and it calls for the Federal Trade Commission to keep a list of complaints from users about political bias on social-media platforms.


Say what you will about the man but he never shies away from exercising his power.

ricky_v
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ricky_v » 29 May 2020 09:13

great streams to while away time



added later from different viewpoint

Gyan
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Gyan » 29 May 2020 14:22

m_saini wrote:Trump signs executive order threatening social-media companies after Twitter fact-checked his tweets

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-s ... ias-2020-5

Trump's executive order seeks to empower federal regulators to amend a statute that gives social-media companies broad authority to moderate speech on their platforms.

The order seeks to create new regulations for how social-media companies are allowed to moderate speech, and it calls for the Federal Trade Commission to keep a list of complaints from users about political bias on social-media platforms.


Say what you will about the man but he never shies away from exercising his power.



With all out war between Tech Media Giants vs Trump, Amazon vs Trump, China influenced MNCs vs Trump, Democrats vs Trump,
Coronavirus issues etc etc

How's public Support for Trump holding up? On the ground in USA.

chola
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chola » 29 May 2020 16:27

Minnesota is a pretty wealthy blue state (Democrats controlled, left-leaning) which is supposed to be woke. The last big riots were in red states Missouri and Maryland. Anyways, this is why there is white flight from neighborhoods with a certain amount of blacks. The tipping point is often cited around 10-15 percent blacks. Once that percentage is reached then a mass exodus begins with whites leaving in spite drop home prices -- they'll sell low to get out.

Dropping home prices means that it becomes middle class flight because even middle class blacks and other minorities begin selling before their home value drops with more and more blacks coming.

This is a vicious cycle in American urban blight. The woke generation counteracts this a bit by living in urban neighborhoods that has some blacks. They then "gentrify" those edge areas. But these woke white folks are mostly DINKs (double income, no kids.) Once they have kids, they mostly move to white suburbs.

Riots weaken this gentrification trend that can reclaim some urban neighborhoods.

Prithwiraj
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Prithwiraj » 29 May 2020 16:46

Minnesota used to be a polish enclave with largest polish immigrants settling there... now it has turned into a Somalian enclave. I wonder how Somali people managed to survive the winter of Minnesota. It is brutal!!

chola
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chola » 29 May 2020 16:52

Prithwiraj wrote:Minnesota used to be a polish enclave with largest polish immigrants settling there... now it has turned into a Somalian enclave. I wonder how Somali people managed to survive the winter of Minnesota. It is brutal!!


Minnesota's white population is mainly ethnic German and Scandinavians. Many statuesque blondes from there! Black population is fairly small but liberal woke population welcomed and encouraged muzzie Somalis with much support programs which is why they are there despite brutally cold winters. It is like an American version of Sweden.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vijayk » 29 May 2020 19:55

I want to point out what is happening in Minnesota is how the left wing terrorist gangs like moveon.org have been preparing for war on democratic societies through years of organizing, money collection, propaganda and brainwashing through proxies such as NYT/NPR/WaPo/CNN etc.


See how well they are organized. They have huge set of tools, mass contacts programs, petition organizing ... I am sure they are using all these to enable Islamist/COMMIE gangs in India too

This is like a WAR campaign
https://www.actionkit.com/

Tools to build a movement
Supercharge your online organizing, advocacy and fundraising with the most powerful tools in the business.
Image



https://roboticdogs.actionkit.com/docs/ ... index.html

Campaigner's Guide

ActionKit is a complete toolset for online organizing, advocacy and fundraising. Most functionality is accessible through the admin UI. This guide outlines things you can do from the Admin Interface, broken down by sections corresponding to the Tabs in the admin and by topic.

Throughout this guide we use specific terminology to refer to attributes of the software. The basics are described below.

Pages are where your users take an action like donating or signing a petition. Users are email addresses. Every time a user submits on a page an Action is recorded. By default, actions subscribe users to the Mailing List associated with the page (if they aren't already subscribed). Only Subscribed Users can be emailed a Mailing through the mailer. Users who land on a page by following the link in a mailing are treated as Recognized Users by default, meaning they only need to enter required information that isn't in your database.

The Reports Tab provides tools for accessing and analyzing your data. Staff users are people you have given access to the admin or the API.




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFGRrR ... HacFrV1qhw


All the code is open sourced

https://github.com/MoveOnOrg?page=1

Image

Integrations to warehouses, connectors to lot of tools ...

WOW! Can we leverage these to organize our own movements? Looks like actionkit only will be given to left wing terrorist organizations

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby m_saini » 29 May 2020 20:14

Gyan wrote:How's public Support for Trump holding up? On the ground in USA.


Hard to say. Most people usually refrain from supporting leaders like trump and Modi online out of fear of being seen as a nationalist by the woke gang. But there's plenty of live videos available about the rioting, there was even a story about how that african-american guy who was killed while jogging was a thief. With coronavirus everyone is pissed off cause they can't go outside. The elections are still some time and all this is happening too soon. With Biden's main selling point being "not trump", just don't see how he can take trump down.

Like Hillary "i'm a women" Clinton, people usually don't like one line candidates.

Mort Walker
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 29 May 2020 22:54

Trump tweeted last night that "...when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you!" However, National Guard is under control of state governor of the Urban Naxal party, so it is unlikely.

More pics from Minneapolis rioting from Friday morning.
Image
Image

From Thursday:
Image
Image

Cain Marko
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Cain Marko » 30 May 2020 00:17

^what is the white dude in black doing? Jumping on a burning car? :shock: must be super doped up on Adderall or some sh*t.

Mort Walker
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 30 May 2020 00:27

Cain Marko wrote:^what is the white dude in black doing? Jumping on a burning car? :shock: must be super doped up on Adderall or some sh*t.


The woke crowd is involved in this now. CBP is flying Dronacharya Predator now over MSP.
Customs and Border Protection Is Flying a Predator Drone Over Minneapolis

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 30 May 2020 00:30

Chini Global Times is now trolling about Minneapolis. :rotfl:

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1189945.shtml

All this should be well archived when the idiots start trolling India about human rights. Police extra judicial killings and threatening the use of army on civilians. Especially in the Donkey controlled cities and states.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby m_saini » 30 May 2020 01:09

CNN team arrested by Minnesota police on live television

https://globalnews.ca/news/7001525/minn ... -reporter/

Curious to see if any FOS baboons will crawl out and condemn this like they do with India. Imagine if Modi government did this to an ndtv reporter.

sanjaykumar
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby sanjaykumar » 30 May 2020 02:32

Paging Arundhati Roy.

disha
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby disha » 30 May 2020 02:42

sanjaykumar wrote:Paging Arundhati Roy.


Also Medha Patkar, Gautam Navlakha, Harsh Mander, Kapil Sibal and Shoba De.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby disha » 30 May 2020 02:56

Gyan wrote:How's public Support for Trump holding up? On the ground in USA.


I am monitoring the pulse and the opinions are divided. At one point will launch a survey on BRF and Twitter. However prepare for a long hot summer of news, counter news, fake news, fake fake news, propahgandus and prapahgandaas.

There is lot happening in economy and foreign relationship. Things are getting aligned and re-aligned.

Bottomline:

Losers:

1. China and Radical Islamic terrorists are getting isolated (if not already).
2. Media is getting isolated. The confidence in media is at the lowest level.
3. Oil and the middle-eastern Sheikhs. Expect a major meltdown in Middle-East

Winners:

3. Chorporates are winning. They have some $5T to $10T pumped in the economy. Its effects will show up somewhere.
4. A new abnormal is being established. Winners are again going to be the rich who can take advantage of the new abnormal.
5. Indo-Pacific group.

====

People do not understand Trump when Trump tweets something like "I talked to Modi and he is angry".

Of course India will put a curt diplomatic message to establish its sovereign rights. The above tweet message is *not* for India. It is for Cheen. In one go Trump has established:

1. India-US relationship and closeness (whether India wants that closeness or not, Trump does not care)
2. Shows Xi Jinping that Modi-Trump are buddies
3. US (Trump) is upset with Cheen and now even India (Modi) is upset.
4. We can calm Indians down (remember this is a message for Cheen), lets do our side-deal here. Or we can help them in their anger, lets do our side-deal here.

This keeps Cheen anxious and on its toes.

India may take some hits when US-China are targeting each other. At the same time, India has a very capable leadership that will ensure a bright future for India.

ricky_v
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ricky_v » 30 May 2020 07:34

another night of riots in many places little mogadishu, nyc, cnn centre in atlanta, the only problem is there is not a single stream of all these in one places, i am juggling 3 streams at this time

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby BajKhedawal » 30 May 2020 07:55

chola wrote:Minnesota is a pretty wealthy blue state (Democrats controlled, left-leaning) which is supposed to be woke. The last big riots were in red states Missouri and Maryland........


Incorrect.

Although the governor is currently red (and that too because successive black gov's in the past got caught with rangay hath doing chori, Maryland is as blue as they come; supposedly housing the most affluent and educated blacks in usa.

ricky_v
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ricky_v » 30 May 2020 08:49

live from nyc, watch this madlad trolling protesters

other good streams doomtube and gloomtube
https://dlive.tv/GloomTube
https://dlive.tv/DOOMTUBE

Gyan
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Gyan » 30 May 2020 12:37

Interestingly the Real Super Rich of USA are Democrats. These people are responsible for income inequality all over the world including USA. Eg. Big Tech. And they are using US poor against US middle class. Something reminds me of Church & RoPeace.

Lot of people supporting or opposing Trump will keep quiet till voting day. But let's see if USA electorate Blames Trump or China for China Virus on voting day.

Though I am told that in some areas of USA, especially agricultural & manufacturing belt, saying something against Trump is invitation for a beat up.


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