Understanding the US - Again

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V_Raman
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby V_Raman » 08 Dec 2020 08:17

It is an extraordinary statement. US public schools where I am from excel in all areas is local competitions, grades, and ivy league admissions. There is a cottage industry of "middle-class" private schools catering to this asian psyche of private school education is better.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vera_k » 08 Dec 2020 08:32

Note the US News ranking is "Best Public High Schools". Public schools tend to excel in time wasting, taking it easy, and indoctrination to a large measure. Public schools have tried to compensate in the past by offering gifted or magnet programs, to set up separate tracks, however that system is under attack. The closest proxy is that the top universities are all private institutions.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby V_Raman » 08 Dec 2020 09:09

Private universities are overrated. I see private school and public school kids joining Amazon/Microsoft/Facebook and be equally successful. Arizona state University is no different from UPenn as far as technology field is concerned.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby NRao » 08 Dec 2020 09:13

V_Raman wrote:Private universities are overrated. I see private school and public school kids joining Amazon/Microsoft/Facebook and be equally successful. Arizona state University is no different from UPenn as far as technology field is concerned.


1) There is pretty much a parity at the bachelor level. The schools differentiate at the Master/PhD
2) *Never* discount the alumni network. It counts for more than the degree itself in most cases

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby V_Raman » 08 Dec 2020 09:18

Agreed. It is far easier to get into them ivies for master/phd than undergrad!

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 08 Dec 2020 10:22

V_Raman wrote:Agreed. It is far easier to get into them ivies for master/phd than undergrad!


The alumni and donor network allows people who attend such places to get graduate admissions at other Ivies or good universities in the NE which have an affiliation with the Ivies. In the sciences and engineering it is less the case. In engineering, the ABET accreditation standard holds some uniformity nationwide for undergraduate work.

I have always stated that anyone with a degree from the Ivies in the humanities, law, and business must be prohibited from holding any elected office.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby srikandan » 08 Dec 2020 21:58

Indian-americans with great experiences of public school system are living in counties/school districts where there is a tax base to support the public schools, and in a place populated by the salaried class, this is to be expected because the school board has money to run the schools and pay its teachers. Almost all of public school funding comes from local property taxes and school taxes, with little to no support from the US federal govt.

Just find a school discrict in a place where people don't have the money to fix up their windows (and board them up) and never pay income or school taxes, and you are liable to find a broken public school -- and this is every county in the US where there is very little local/school taxes collected.

Most of the opinions that say bad public schools are a myth seem to be from people who have lived or are living in pretty "well-off" neighbourhoods, where "well-off" means "people who pay their local taxes are in the 90+ percentile" (as opposed to 50th percentile).

poorer schools hire adjunct teachers (since they do not have money to staff the school) and have massive classrooms with high student/teacher ratios, where disruptive kids cannot be reprimanded or removed from the class for being disruptive. The resulting educational outcomes are on expected lines.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KL Dubey » 08 Dec 2020 22:59

vera_k wrote:Note the US News ranking is "Best Public High Schools". Public schools tend to excel in time wasting, taking it easy, and indoctrination to a large measure. Public schools have tried to compensate in the past by offering gifted or magnet programs, to set up separate tracks, however that system is under attack. The closest proxy is that the top universities are all private institutions.


A very simplistic view that isn't real either. Middle-class America relies on quality public education at all levels. It's a bedrock of all developed countries.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KL Dubey » 08 Dec 2020 23:03

sum wrote:
vera_k wrote:Well, a US public school of any stripe is not known for excellence. They are the place of last resort for those who cannot afford better options. Somewhat puzzling that so many Asians go to these schools.

Because its free and the pvt ones are pretty steep?


It's *not* free - it is taxpayer funded.

Where I live, the vast majority of Asians go to public K-12 schools which are generally of high quality. A large section of the private schools cater to religious groups, and the secular ones are not really any more worth the money than the good public schools. The problem with public schools is a significantly long tail of lower-quality schools mostly in lower-income areas.

The last 5 US presidents (from Bush Sr onwards) all attended ivy league schools - and have mostly been exceptionally incompetent with Obamudu reaching the apex of incompetence and hucksterism. Another two (Clinton and Trump) defined the apex of debauchery and moral turpidity. Trump has been the only one that tried - albeit clumsily - to do some real work...and he actually transferred into an ivy league from a smaller private univ for 2 years of college.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Vayutuvan » 10 Dec 2020 06:52

That "smaller private univ" is Leigh University. The most famous alum was Lee Iacocca who brought Chrysler back from death.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Vayutuvan » 10 Dec 2020 06:55

srikandan wrote:Almost all of public school funding comes from local property taxes and school taxes, with little to no support from the US federal govt.


Have seen the state of public schools in some CA cities? For example, Berkeley. They can't get good teachers because teachers can't afford the rents on their salaries.

"Boarded up windows" are only in some really poor localities like Chicago Southside (just a little north of UChicago and Ombabas place :mrgreen: ) and some parts of Detroit. Saying that most places in the US have "boarded up windows" is an exaggeration.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby srikandan » 10 Dec 2020 07:28

deleted
Last edited by srikandan on 10 Dec 2020 23:02, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Vayutuvan » 10 Dec 2020 07:31

"The US is pretty crappy unless you live in nice little suburbia -- small towns without much economic activity are just terrible, and there are a lot of them -- maybe not where you live."

Well, I live in such a place. We have fought for school choice. AAs get bussed. All Gifted programs are in the schools which are in the AA neighborhoods. Not everything is green in the NE or West Coast, hain?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby srikandan » 10 Dec 2020 07:41

deleted
Last edited by srikandan on 10 Dec 2020 23:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Thakur_B » 10 Dec 2020 08:53

vera_k wrote:Well, a US public school of any stripe is not known for excellence. They are the place of last resort for those who cannot afford better options. Somewhat puzzling that so many Asians go to these schools.


Private schools in Bay area have intense peer competition. With kids being graded against their peers, this leads to meritorious kids getting lower grades. Putting them in public schools gets them higher grades thus improving chances of better college.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KL Dubey » 10 Dec 2020 09:31

Vayutuvan wrote:That "smaller private univ" is Leigh University. The most famous alum was Lee Iacocca who brought Chrysler back from death.


Trump never went to Lehigh. He went to Fordham.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Vayutuvan » 10 Dec 2020 10:56

oh. I though he started at Lehigh. my bad.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Vayutuvan » 10 Dec 2020 11:00

srikandan wrote:"Well, I live in such a place. We have fought for school choice. AAs get bussed. All Gifted programs are in the schools which are in the AA neighborhoods. Not everything is green in the NE or West Coast, hain?"

I am talking about bare minimum school facilities, not gifted programs or bussing, which means you do not live in a place like the ones I am describing -- perhaps you should read what is written instead of hallucinating. These places exist in towns that lost manufacturing industries over time -- there are a lot of them.


hallucinating?!!! :shock: :-? you are at the end of your wits, I guess. ad hominem is the last resort when someone runs out of intelligent responses.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chetak » 10 Dec 2020 12:46

U.S Government And 48 Other States Sue To Break Up Facebook, Call For Unwinding Its Acquisitions of WhatsApp, Instagram https://swarajyamag.com/insta/us-government-and-48-other-states-sue-to-break-up-facebook-call-for-unwinding-its-acquisitions-of-whatsapp-instagram via @swarajyamag

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby m_saini » 10 Dec 2020 17:10

Decoupling from China rejected by Biden team

According to Tony Blinken, decoupling is ‘unrealistic’ and ‘counterproductive’; it also wouldn’t work

Senior officials in President Donald Trump’s administration have floated the idea that the US government may reimburse the costs of American companies relocating operations out of China, in order to diversify geographic risks to global supply chains and reduce over-reliance on China.

Although US President-elect Joe Biden also talks about bringing manufacturing jobs back home, his choice for secretary of state, Tony Blinken, has minced no words in distancing the incoming administration from the idea of decoupling.

“Trying to fully decouple, as some have suggested, from China … is unrealistic and ultimately counterproductive,” Blinken said at an event hosted by the US Chamber of Commerce during the election campaign. “It would be a mistake.”

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chetak » 10 Dec 2020 17:37

Then why are we burning up valuable engine hours futzing around with the QUAD :mrgreen:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby m_saini » 10 Dec 2020 17:44

^I'm sure the Quad mistake will be corrected too once the scientists and academicians get their say back in the new administration :twisted:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby srikandan » 10 Dec 2020 22:07

deleted
Last edited by srikandan on 10 Dec 2020 23:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Suraj » 10 Dec 2020 23:00

Mod Note

To all the folks spiritedly arguing about their US school systems, please step back for a moment and consider what that's got to do with an Indian's understanding of the US, as opposed to an Indian-American-parent-with-school-age-children's understanding.

The goal here on this thread isn't to spiritedly debate local US matters in a context primarily understood and relevant to longtime US residents. It's to focus on just the matters that offer understanding to those living on the other side of the planet in India. If you're busy arguing, you're most likely failing to provide a simple reading of the system to someone in India.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby V_Raman » 10 Dec 2020 23:32

The biggest difference I see between schools in the USA and in India - high school in USA is like undergrad college in India - in terms of expectation from the students and how classes are run. You can take courses of college difficulty in high school if you want and it is up to you to put in the hard work and excel.

TLDR: There are 3 levels of courses - Normal, Honors, Advanced Placement (AP) - with increasing levels of difficulty. Students have to come up with a plan for their 4 years of high school and has to meet credit requirements for graduation - across Arts/PE/STEM/Vocational categories. There are 2 semesters each year. All assignments are graded and there is a final per semester as well. Overall GPA is calculated from per semester GPA. Students have to move around classes during school day. So it is run pretty much like a decent undergrad college in India. The college level AP courses are pretty hard - it is problem oriented. AP Physics - for example - the book is Resnick/Halliday - covered in one school year! Same with AP Bio and AP Chem. They are all college level books and that style of writing. The assignments are pretty intense - some problems are IIT-JEE level! AP Language is insanely hard. I have not seen this level of emphasis in language in India in high school. School sports is huge as well. It typically runs on quarterly calendar with specific sports available in a quarter. Students can sign up for that. Again there are 2 and sometimes 3 levels - Varsity, Junior-Varsity (JV), and C-team (highest to lowest). Varsity is the cream of the crop and carries weight for college admissions. A reasonable high school campus, where I live (WA state), is a sprawling campus with great facilities including baseball/football/track/huge-parking - they have like 2000 students. They have multiple scheduled lunches slots and they have a cafeteria serving food if students want to buy. Needy children get free food - similar to mid-day meals in India. They have academic counselors and nurse on site to work with the children.
Last edited by V_Raman on 11 Dec 2020 00:09, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby srikandan » 10 Dec 2020 23:43

oops, deleted. I thought understanding the reason for US school system is breaking down would be useful. Not trying to troll or be a neo-nationalist. removed all posts. Cannot delete the earlier ones, but please do so to clean the thread up.
Last edited by srikandan on 11 Dec 2020 00:06, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby hnair » 10 Dec 2020 23:58

srikandan, which part of the mod note by Suraj did you not understand? If you want to comment on comparative merits of Indian vs US public school system, please do so. But if it is a one-sided commentary about US local school system's merits or demerits, this is not the forum for you. Suraj had to delete some of your irrelevant posts and it is not going to happen again.

You are a new poster here, so no action this time, but no more ad-hominems and no US neo-nationalist persona etc.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Cyrano » 11 Dec 2020 00:38

With Resnick & Halliday and Morrison & Boyd around, there are no safe spaces anywhere in the world - if they are not passive-aggressive I don't know who is ;-)

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Cain Marko » 11 Dec 2020 08:03

m_saini wrote:Decoupling from China rejected by Biden team

According to Tony Blinken, decoupling is ‘unrealistic’ and ‘counterproductive’; it also wouldn’t work

Senior officials in President Donald Trump’s administration have floated the idea that the US government may reimburse the costs of American companies relocating operations out of China, in order to diversify geographic risks to global supply chains and reduce over-reliance on China.

Although US President-elect Joe Biden also talks about bringing manufacturing jobs back home, his choice for secretary of state, Tony Blinken, has minced no words in distancing the incoming administration from the idea of decoupling.

“Trying to fully decouple, as some have suggested, from China … is unrealistic and ultimately counterproductive,” Blinken said at an event hosted by the US Chamber of Commerce during the election campaign. “It would be a mistake.”

If people think that decoupling means some kind of iron curtain type thing, that's not happening. This doesn't mean Trump will embrace china:
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-picks-longtime-china-critic-224153375.html

He's not even rethinking tariffs yet. TPP or variant could be on the cards excluding China. Might be an end to rcep and good for India

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Kashi » 17 Dec 2020 08:39

Fun time in the promised land.

San Francisco committee wants to remove Abraham Lincoln's name from high school

Lincoln High School was one of many that the San Francisco School Names Advisory Committee found to have a problematic title, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. Others included George Washington High School, Herbert Hoover Middle School and Paul Revere K-8.


“The discussion for Lincoln centered around his treatment of First Nation peoples because that was offered first,” committee chairman Jeremiah Jeffries told the Chronicle in an article published Monday. “Once he met criteria in that way, we did not belabor the point.”


Do check out this guy. Interesting background he has.

[Jeffries] told the Chronicle that “Lincoln, like the presidents before him and most after, did not show through policy or rhetoric that Black lives ever mattered to them outside of human capital and as casualties of wealth building.”


Not even liberal Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., has been spared. The committee sought to remove her name from an elementary school with Jeffries alluding to allegations that she flew a Confederate flag at City Hall when she was mayor.

On a local level Dianne Feinstein chose to fly a flag that is the iconography of domestic terrorism, racism, white avarice and inhumanity towards Black and Indigenous people at the City Hall,” he reportedly said. “She is one of the few living examples on our list, so she still has time to dedicate the rest of her life to the upliftment of Black, First Nations and other people of color. She hasn’t thus far."


:lol: :lol:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chetak » 18 Dec 2020 00:41

admin note: no more US political bickering news here!

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KJo » 18 Dec 2020 07:22

This crazy nutjob is rearing her head again.

Image

https://twitter.com/cmkshama/status/1338295340496130049

Her constituents are roundly criticizing her for wasting her time on other issues while neglecting her voters.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Yagnasri » 18 Dec 2020 12:06

"reactionary" is a word mostly if not solely used by Communists. So is "exploitation". Dems are going downhill with each passing day towards PC BS which is a mutated form of communist ideas.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Kashi » 18 Dec 2020 18:02

Yagnasri wrote:"reactionary" is a word mostly if not solely used by Communists. So is "exploitation". Dems are going downhill with each passing day towards PC BS which is a mutated form of communist ideas.


President elect begs to differ with you.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby DavidD » 19 Dec 2020 06:41

KL Dubey wrote:
vera_k wrote:Note the US News ranking is "Best Public High Schools". Public schools tend to excel in time wasting, taking it easy, and indoctrination to a large measure. Public schools have tried to compensate in the past by offering gifted or magnet programs, to set up separate tracks, however that system is under attack. The closest proxy is that the top universities are all private institutions.


A very simplistic view that isn't real either. Middle-class America relies on quality public education at all levels. It's a bedrock of all developed countries.


I'd say they rely on public education, not sure about the quality part. America is not like other developed countries, it relies instead on immigration to attract top talent.

I went to public middle and high school in Central Florida. I learned fractions in 6th grade, then again in 7th grade, then again in 8th grade. It was puzzling to me why I kept being taught the same thing. Worse still, my 8th grade math teacher was very good, but he left in the middle of the year for a job at NASA. In the first class by his substitute, he was teaching how 1/50 + 1/50 = 2/100. Yeah. That's public school in America for you.

For High School I entered a magnet program (IB) and basically took almost exclusively IB and AP courses. That was much better. Still, some subjects sucked. For example, my 1st IB computer programming teacher was the special-ed teacher (i.e. for developmentally delayed kids) before my school started offering the class. He liked programming as a hobby, and he's a teacher, so those were his qualifications. He was actually the better one of my two teachers. The second one had no clue how to program beyond the extreme basics.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Rony » 19 Dec 2020 19:14

MAGA leaders call for the troops to keep Trump in office

A growing call to invoke the Insurrection Act shows how hard-edged MAGA ideology has become in the wake of Trump’s election loss.

The point, however, might just be to have the Insurrection Act as a talking point to keep the MAGA movement motivated. And Levin, the extremism researcher, feared a darker path if Trump — a man who already speaks in militaristic terms on a regular basis — continued to goad his base into thinking a Biden presidency is an insurrection.

“What is the heart of the Second Amendment, pro-militia, anti-government patriot movement ? It's the insurrectionist theory of the Second Amendment,” he said. “It says people can rise up against a tyrannical government. To me, this looks like the last exit on the Jersey Turnpike before we get to that spot.”

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Tanaji » 20 Dec 2020 03:05

. In the first class by his substitute, he was teaching how 1/50 + 1/50 = 2/100. Yeah. That's public school in America for you.


:shock:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby chanakyaa » 23 Dec 2020 05:17

Another $2.3 Trillion out of thin air (almost 4x the foreign reserves of India ~$600 Billion).

Congress unveils $2.3 trillion government spending and virus relief package
$740.5 billion in defense spending :-o , $664.5 billion for domestic programs, and $900 billion COVID-19 relief bill


And, something for everyone...Yes, it is somehow related to Corona virus
Of the funds appropriated under title III of this Act that are made available for assistance for Pakistan, not less than $15,000,000 shall be made available for democracy programs :D and not less than $10,000,000 shall be made available for gender programs.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby saip » 23 Dec 2020 07:05

Looks like Trump wants to Veto ALL bills. Looks like he wants a new bill. Goodbye $600 check.
He wants it raised to $2000 (it was originally proposed but I think Republicans opposed that). He says he wants the Congress to send him a new bill now or to the next administration (which again he thinks it will be him)
Lot of pork in this bill. If he vetoes (using pocket veto - i.e doing nothing for next TEN days) this bill will leave no time for Congress to override it. It will lapse on Jan 3.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1341537886315950080

My bad. The pork is in ANOTHER bill not Covid bill. It is in the omnibus spending bill which also gives $10 mil for Pakistan for Gender training. Both the bills go to Trump for signature. He seems to have made the same blunder as I did mixing up the bills. Who has time to read 6000 pages? Defence bill is third one and is with him for the past 9 days and tomorrow is the last day either to sign or veto it. If he does not veto that (the defence bill) it will become law and if he vetoes it the Congress may override it.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby saip » 23 Dec 2020 07:05

. Dupe


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