Understanding the US - Again
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Donnie wouldnt last long in russia, he’d be eaten for breakfast
Re: Understanding the US- Again
The only reason why there is a “no interpreter or anybody in the room” meeting, is to allow a claim that “I did ask about election meddling” 
trump is now covering up for Putin, and right after the indictments of GRU intel officers.
trump is now covering up for Putin, and right after the indictments of GRU intel officers.Re: Understanding the US- Again
If anyone had any doubts about the true nature of the office of US Ambassador for 'Religious Freedom', then this spat between the UK and the USA regarding the imprisonment of Tommy Robinson, the right wing rabble rouser and self-styled defender of white, christian values should really be an object lesson for those Indians who believe that USICRF is the moral arbiter of the rest of the world, instead of being a vehicle for EJ activity
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... dl-founder
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 47051.html
USICRF has even given up on the pretence that there is a separation of state and church when it chooses to lecture the GOI.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... dl-founder
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 47051.html
USICRF has even given up on the pretence that there is a separation of state and church when it chooses to lecture the GOI.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
curious about the timings of russian officers indictment just before trump meets Putin. just to derail and have control on trump.
Funny how the whole circus of blaming non existent folks in usa and get away with the charade.
win-win to all parties concerned.
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usa has the most interference of all countries in the world amongst other states. it is well over 80+ elections in over 40 years. former soviet union comes a very poor second. But but usa elections are very sacred and holy. :-
Funny how the whole circus of blaming non existent folks in usa and get away with the charade.
win-win to all parties concerned.
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usa has the most interference of all countries in the world amongst other states. it is well over 80+ elections in over 40 years. former soviet union comes a very poor second. But but usa elections are very sacred and holy. :-
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Plenty of residents are charged and have pled guilty. It’s not like that matters either to the “haha fake news” and “deep state” crowd.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/busi ... ion=Footer
Trump’s Ace in the Hole in Trade War: A Strong Economy
By Nelson D. Schwartz, June 20, 2018
The American economy has picked up speed and is now on course to expand this year at the fastest rate in more than a decade. That acceleration gives President Trump a stronger hand as he contemplates more tariffs and takes an increasingly confrontational approach with China, Canada, Mexico and other trading partners. Economists have raised their growth estimates for the second quarter to an annualized rate of nearly 5 percent, more than double the pace of the previous period. Some economists say the figure could hit 3 percent for the full year, a level last reached in 2005. As growth slows in Europe, China, Japan and elsewhere, the United States finds itself at the top of the global economy. The United States is also less exposed to the fallout from an escalating trade war since it does not rely on exports as much as other countries. It all gives Mr. Trump leverage with world leaders, potentially forcing them to make concessions.
But his threats could also backfire. Economists warn that the president’s clout is limited and that his attacks on the trading system could dampen the outlook not just in other countries but also domestically. “If you have the strongest economy in years, then the trade shock appears manageable,” said Gregory Daco, head of United States economics at Oxford Economics. “However, with growth peaking, the trade shock will become more intense. With a global backdrop that is not improving anymore, we have to be careful about the back half of 2018 and 2019.”
In July, the recovery will reach the nine-year mark, making it one of the longest in modern history. But for much of that time, the engines of the economy were rarely synchronized. When consumers were spending at a healthy clip in 2015 and 2016, business investment lagged as energy companies scaled back or abandoned projects in response to a sharp drop in oil prices.
All that has changed in recent months. Now, the different parts of the economy appear to be operating as one well-oiled machine. Consumer spending rebounded after a soft start to the year, with retail sales in May rising by a robust 0.8 percent, double what analysts had forecast.
“We have a very strong economy, and if the trade negotiations are successful, it’ll be even stronger,” said Kevin Hassett, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers. He added that the president was “impatient to fix broken policies,” with trade at the top of the list after last year’s tax overhaul and deregulation effort.
......
Gautam
Trump’s Ace in the Hole in Trade War: A Strong Economy
By Nelson D. Schwartz, June 20, 2018
The American economy has picked up speed and is now on course to expand this year at the fastest rate in more than a decade. That acceleration gives President Trump a stronger hand as he contemplates more tariffs and takes an increasingly confrontational approach with China, Canada, Mexico and other trading partners. Economists have raised their growth estimates for the second quarter to an annualized rate of nearly 5 percent, more than double the pace of the previous period. Some economists say the figure could hit 3 percent for the full year, a level last reached in 2005. As growth slows in Europe, China, Japan and elsewhere, the United States finds itself at the top of the global economy. The United States is also less exposed to the fallout from an escalating trade war since it does not rely on exports as much as other countries. It all gives Mr. Trump leverage with world leaders, potentially forcing them to make concessions.
But his threats could also backfire. Economists warn that the president’s clout is limited and that his attacks on the trading system could dampen the outlook not just in other countries but also domestically. “If you have the strongest economy in years, then the trade shock appears manageable,” said Gregory Daco, head of United States economics at Oxford Economics. “However, with growth peaking, the trade shock will become more intense. With a global backdrop that is not improving anymore, we have to be careful about the back half of 2018 and 2019.”
In July, the recovery will reach the nine-year mark, making it one of the longest in modern history. But for much of that time, the engines of the economy were rarely synchronized. When consumers were spending at a healthy clip in 2015 and 2016, business investment lagged as energy companies scaled back or abandoned projects in response to a sharp drop in oil prices.
All that has changed in recent months. Now, the different parts of the economy appear to be operating as one well-oiled machine. Consumer spending rebounded after a soft start to the year, with retail sales in May rising by a robust 0.8 percent, double what analysts had forecast.
“We have a very strong economy, and if the trade negotiations are successful, it’ll be even stronger,” said Kevin Hassett, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers. He added that the president was “impatient to fix broken policies,” with trade at the top of the list after last year’s tax overhaul and deregulation effort.
......
Gautam
Re: Understanding the US- Again
charged with what/ what is that Guilty plea?Gus wrote:Plenty of residents are charged and have pled guilty. It’s not like that matters either to the “haha fake news” and “deep state” crowd.
Has any US citizen pled guilty to working with Russians to sabotage elections? or help Russians with sabotage of election?
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Just facts no body questions/or can easily be verifiedGus wrote:Plenty of residents are charged and have pled guilty. It’s not like that matters either to the “haha fake news” and “deep state” crowd.
- Trump was briefed beforehand before he left for the trip - He knew that indictments are coming and when. (Those who are pointing out the "surprise" factor")
- As to tally - Four former Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Five of these people (including three former Trump aides) have already pleaded guilty.
It is not "Fake news" or as DT's recent tweet "stories you have heard" .. the recent indictments were grand juries indictments.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
What exactly is a grand jury indictment? And +1 on vijayk 's question, what exactly did they plead guilty to?
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nandakumar
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
To my limited understanding, grand jury indictments are rulings where the jury decide on whether case is fit to go to trial with a regular jury and prosecution and defence lawyers. A grand jury indictment is not a verdict of guilt. It is merely a preliminary step towards eventual verdict of guilt or innocence.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
S’ok it was obama’s fault... or atleast clinton... trump is a very smart man he knows best
We must follow the fuhrer
We must follow the fuhrer
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Imagine the US had someone spying on Kremlin meetings. To use this person’s reports in regular court proceedings to prosecute someone, in US law it would be necessary for the defendant’s side to be able to cross-examine this person. Which the government may not want for obvious reasons. There is thus much intelligence, which even if it is certainly true, cannot be used as evidence in a regular court of law. One should, unlike Brahma Chellaney, keep this in mind.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
If the guilty pleas dont mean anything how comes flynn is not contesting his process?
Only manafort is holding out
Only manafort is holding out
Re: Understanding the US- Again
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–present)#Table_of_chargesabhik wrote:What exactly is a grand jury indictment? And +1 on vijayk 's question, what exactly did they plead guilty to?
Re: Understanding the US- Again
I always thought that the point of NATO was to keep Europeans as US poodles. The way I understand the post second world war deal was: Europeans would fund their welfare state; the Americans their warfare state. In return for continued presence of American troops in Europe and in return Europeans buying American arms and funding the MIC and strategically self-castrate themselves, the Americans would have the Article 5 of NATO (mutual defense clause), and allow the Europeans to have some apparent independence. Sure the Europeans would develop their own Rafales and Eurofighters and Meteors, but nobody really believes that Europe can defend itself.
By threatening to pull out of NATO and by telling them to increase their defense budgets and leaving them alone to fend off the "Russian threat" (eg Ukraine crisis), Trump is forcing the concept of a united European defense union independent of US. Won't happen overnight, but with top poodle UK gone, France and Germany may just start it off. It'd be against the US strategy of cultivating poodles and penny wise and pound foolish.
Looks like Trump didn't get the memo.
By threatening to pull out of NATO and by telling them to increase their defense budgets and leaving them alone to fend off the "Russian threat" (eg Ukraine crisis), Trump is forcing the concept of a united European defense union independent of US. Won't happen overnight, but with top poodle UK gone, France and Germany may just start it off. It'd be against the US strategy of cultivating poodles and penny wise and pound foolish.
Looks like Trump didn't get the memo.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
France and Germany realise they need the UK for a defence alliance, and UK knows it needs them to be credible
The US strategy is well captured in the post above, also the US made sure that britain gave up India and that france gave up indo china; lack of support over suez... Us made the rules very clear
Also the spending figures that are being quoted... many if them miss out the fact that the total US budget covers the pacific and indian oceans too... not just the atlantic
The US strategy is well captured in the post above, also the US made sure that britain gave up India and that france gave up indo china; lack of support over suez... Us made the rules very clear
Also the spending figures that are being quoted... many if them miss out the fact that the total US budget covers the pacific and indian oceans too... not just the atlantic
Re: Understanding the US- Again
I think just as East Europe is nervous about Russia, it would be nervous about a re-arming Germany.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
you can look up who is charged with what.vijayk wrote:
charged with what/ what is that Guilty plea?
Has any US citizen pled guilty to working with Russians to sabotage elections? or help Russians with sabotage of election?
you can also choose to ignore what people denied everything, telling things like I've never met with any russian, what is russian, is that a donut? ..and then pleading guilty.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
bannon giving interviews with british media about how now is the time to start the (white nationalist) right wing revolt in europe... ugly times
Re: Understanding the US- Again
A lengthy article on one person's "trip" across the border:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... ion=Footer
What It Costs to Be Smuggled Across the U.S. Border
By NICHOLAS KULISH
MATAMOROS, Mexico — Shortly before dawn one Sunday last August, a driver in an S.U.V. picked up Christopher Cruz at a stash house in this border city near the Gulf of Mexico. The 22-year-old from El Salvador was glad to leave the one-story building, where smugglers kept bundles of cocaine and marijuana alongside their human cargo, but he was anxious about what lay ahead.
The driver deposited Mr. Cruz at an illegal crossing point on the edge of the Rio Grande. A smuggler took a smartphone photograph to confirm his identity and sent it using WhatsApp to a driver waiting to pick him up on the other side of the frontier when — if — he made it across.
The nearly 2,000-mile trip had already cost Mr. Cruz’s family more than $6,000 and brought him within sight of Brownsville, Tex. The remaining 500 miles to Houston — terrain prowled by the United States Border Patrol as well as the state and local police — would set them back another $6,500.
It was an almost inconceivable amount of money for someone who earned just a few dollars a day picking coffee beans back home. But he wasn’t weighing the benefits of a higher-paying job. He was fleeing violence and what he said was near-certain death at the hands of local gangs.
“There’s no other option,” Mr. Cruz said. “The first thought I had was, ‘I just need to get out of here at whatever cost.’”
The stretch of southwest border where he intended to cross has become the epicenter of the raging battle over the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown. One clear consequence of the tightening American border and the growing perils getting there is that more and more desperate families are turning to increasingly sophisticated smuggling operations to get relatives into the United States.
Mr. Cruz’s story provides an unusually detailed anatomy of the price of the journey. The money paid for a network of drivers who concealed him in tractor-trailers and minibuses, a series of houses where he hid out, handlers tied to criminal organizations who arranged his passage, and bribes for Mexican police officers to look the other way as he passed.
Even with his family’s payment, he slept amid filth and vermin. He watched guides abandon some migrants who could not keep up, and guards prod others to become drug mules. Sometimes the smugglers identified him by a numeric code, other times by an assumed name. But as often as not, they simply called him “the package,” to be moved for profit like an illicit good.
For Mr. Cruz, it was worth it. “They can build as many walls as they want,” he said, referring to American officials. “They can send as many soldiers to the border as they want, but a people’s need and desire for a better life is stronger.”
President Trump and his supporters have called for greater vigilance along the border to keep out people like Mr. Cruz, a low-skilled worker who followed in the path of other family members who also arrived illegally, and who hopes those left behind will join him.
.....
Gautam
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... ion=Footer
What It Costs to Be Smuggled Across the U.S. Border
By NICHOLAS KULISH
MATAMOROS, Mexico — Shortly before dawn one Sunday last August, a driver in an S.U.V. picked up Christopher Cruz at a stash house in this border city near the Gulf of Mexico. The 22-year-old from El Salvador was glad to leave the one-story building, where smugglers kept bundles of cocaine and marijuana alongside their human cargo, but he was anxious about what lay ahead.
The driver deposited Mr. Cruz at an illegal crossing point on the edge of the Rio Grande. A smuggler took a smartphone photograph to confirm his identity and sent it using WhatsApp to a driver waiting to pick him up on the other side of the frontier when — if — he made it across.
The nearly 2,000-mile trip had already cost Mr. Cruz’s family more than $6,000 and brought him within sight of Brownsville, Tex. The remaining 500 miles to Houston — terrain prowled by the United States Border Patrol as well as the state and local police — would set them back another $6,500.
It was an almost inconceivable amount of money for someone who earned just a few dollars a day picking coffee beans back home. But he wasn’t weighing the benefits of a higher-paying job. He was fleeing violence and what he said was near-certain death at the hands of local gangs.
“There’s no other option,” Mr. Cruz said. “The first thought I had was, ‘I just need to get out of here at whatever cost.’”
The stretch of southwest border where he intended to cross has become the epicenter of the raging battle over the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown. One clear consequence of the tightening American border and the growing perils getting there is that more and more desperate families are turning to increasingly sophisticated smuggling operations to get relatives into the United States.
Mr. Cruz’s story provides an unusually detailed anatomy of the price of the journey. The money paid for a network of drivers who concealed him in tractor-trailers and minibuses, a series of houses where he hid out, handlers tied to criminal organizations who arranged his passage, and bribes for Mexican police officers to look the other way as he passed.
Even with his family’s payment, he slept amid filth and vermin. He watched guides abandon some migrants who could not keep up, and guards prod others to become drug mules. Sometimes the smugglers identified him by a numeric code, other times by an assumed name. But as often as not, they simply called him “the package,” to be moved for profit like an illicit good.
For Mr. Cruz, it was worth it. “They can build as many walls as they want,” he said, referring to American officials. “They can send as many soldiers to the border as they want, but a people’s need and desire for a better life is stronger.”
President Trump and his supporters have called for greater vigilance along the border to keep out people like Mr. Cruz, a low-skilled worker who followed in the path of other family members who also arrived illegally, and who hopes those left behind will join him.
.....
Gautam
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Well spotted, but more visibly is the role played by USCIRF as a lobbyist for white supremacists and anti-islamic grouosLalmohan wrote:bannon giving interviews with british media about how now is the time to start the (white nationalist) right wing revolt in europe... ugly times
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... dl-founder
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -interview
I had mentioned this in a piece above, but recent stories have filled in the gaps
Re: Understanding the US- Again
bannon seems to be camping in EU for months now riling up nativism and resentment against immigrants.
while some have fond hopes of this hate being tailored to just muslims...it never works that way
while some have fond hopes of this hate being tailored to just muslims...it never works that way
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UlanBatori
- BRF Oldie
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
800 years of history say that there is not much to fear from a Franco-German-Eyetalian Al-Lie-Antz.srin wrote:I always thought that the point of NATO was to keep Europeans as US poodles.
By threatening to pull out of NATO and by telling them to increase their defense budgets and leaving them alone to fend off the "Russian threat" (eg Ukraine crisis), Trump is forcing the concept of a united European defense union independent of US. Won't happen overnight, but with top poodle UK gone, France and Germany may just start it off. It'd be against the US strategy of cultivating poodles and penny wise and pound foolish.
Looks like Trump didn't get the memo.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
the deep state is having fits over the trump putin meeting. not even namo haters put out such headlines on their commander in chief
NYT
Trump, Treasonous Traitor
By CHARLES M. BLOW
The president is failing to protect the country from an ongoing attack.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/opin ... eft-region
NYT
Trump, Treasonous Traitor
By CHARLES M. BLOW
The president is failing to protect the country from an ongoing attack.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/opin ... eft-region
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Flynn pleaded guilty. In his case it is not Grand Jury indictment. Manafort is only charged with offences and he has not pleaded guilty.Lalmohan wrote:If the guilty pleas dont mean anything how comes flynn is not contesting his process?
Only manafort is holding out
About grand jury indictments, it is one sided process wholly. The prosecutor presents his case and examines HIS witnesses. There are no defense lawyers or cross examination and not even a judge is present. So generally Grand Juries do indict. It is possible for the grand jurors to question the witnesses. Then again it is the prosecutors discretion to allow or not to allow the question. I was on couple of grand juries (both cases involving murders) and in both cases we returned 'true bill' or indictment, meaning prosecutor can go ahead and prosecute the accused.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
There were interpreters on both sides.Gus wrote:The only reason why there is a “no interpreter or anybody in the room” meeting, is to allow a claim that “I did ask about election meddling”
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Lalmohan wrote:France and Germany realise they need the UK for a defence alliance, and UK knows it needs them to be credible
The US strategy is well captured in the post above, also the US made sure that britain gave up India and that france gave up indo china; lack of support over suez... Us made the rules very clear
Also the spending figures that are being quoted... many if them miss out the fact that the total US budget covers the pacific and indian oceans too... not just the atlantic
Not really. Yalta 1.0 Division of spheres of influence that led to Cold War.
Now we are seeing Yalta 2.0. Don't know where this will go.
But Europe goes back to per-colonial days.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
there was a former indian diplomat (from the 1950's) who wrote a very interesting book about the US taking over #1 spot from UK and France in the 1940's - I can't remember the name now, but will look for it. the main assertion in the book was that in the quest for oil and securing its own position, the US made sure that the UK and France gave up their principal colonies and ceded control of Persia and the Arabian peninsula to the US
he based his assertions on olaf caroe's book
he based his assertions on olaf caroe's book
Re: Understanding the US- Again
yeah, there'll be translators. But no other staff. And translators cannot speak to others about what was discussed. So, in effect, that IS a private meeting.ramana wrote: There were interpreters on both sides.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Imagine if An Indian PM said in a press conference, I don’t believe RAW, I asked my Pakistani counterpart, and he denied forcefully everything, and I have no reason to disbelieve him.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Please use some other country pairs for this sarcastic post
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Mort Walker
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
Wrong.Lalmohan wrote:France and Germany realise they need the UK for a defence alliance, and UK knows it needs them to be credible
The US strategy is well captured in the post above, also the US made sure that britain gave up India and that france gave up indo china; lack of support over suez... Us made the rules very clear
Also the spending figures that are being quoted... many if them miss out the fact that the total US budget covers the pacific and indian oceans too... not just the atlantic
It was Roosevelt who suggested to Churchill that India be given a say on its future. Churchill dismissed those suggestions and Roosevelt was more concerned about winning WWII. It was the Atlee government that gave up India because India was costing the UK more to keep than to cut loose. If the Torries didn't lose the 1945 UK general election, Churchill would have remained PM and India would have been in a bigger mess by delayed independence by at least 5-10 years - and that too a moth eaten divided India. By April 1945 Roosevelt had died and Truman was more intent at keeping the communists held off. Degaulle of France was returned its colony of Vietnam because he threatened that without France's former colonies, France would fall to the Soviets.
The US in the post WWII gave the Europeans much what they asked for. The UK was the largest recipient of the US Marshall Fund. Truman setup ARAMCO with the Saudis in a deal where half of oil profit goes to Saudi and the other half to American oil companies. Truman wanted to setup something similar with Iran, but by then Truman was gone and Eisenhower and Churchill came back as UK PM in 1951. In 1953 Operation Ajax deposed the Mossadeq's secular government of Iran and put in Shah Pahlavi. This was a Churchill scheme with Eisenhower agreeing to do the dirty work.
A Partial List of US Involvement in Regime Change Around the World
1949 Syrian coup d'état
1949–1953 Albania
1951–56 Tibet
1953 Iranian coup d'état
1954 Guatemalan coup d'état
1956–57 Syria crisis
1957–58 Indonesian rebellion
1959–2000 Cuba, assassination attempts on Fidel Castro
1959 Cambodian "Bangkok Plot"
1960 Congo coup
1961 Cuba, Bay of Pigs Invasion
1961 Cuba, Operation Mongoose
1961 Dominican Republic
1963 South Vietnamese coup
1964 Bolivian coup d'état
1964 Brazilian coup d'état
1966 Ghana coup d'état
1970 Cambodian coup
1971 Bolivian coup d'état
1970–73 Chile
1979–89 Afghanistan, Operation Cyclone
1980–92 Angola, UNITA
1981–87 Nicaragua, Contras
1982 Chad
1991 Haiti
1996 Iraq coup attempt
2000 Yugoslavia
2004 Haiti
2011–2017 Syria, Timber Sycamore
A Partial List of US Interference in Elections Around the World
Bolivian election (2002)
Chilean elections (1964, 1970)
Iranian election (1952)
Italian election (1948)
Israeli elections (1996, 2016)
Japanese elections (1950s–60s)
Korean election (1948)
Palestinian election (2006)
Philippines election (1953)
Russian election (1996)
Ukraine election (2004)
No matter what Trump does, the US establishment is firmly in place and nothing can displace it.
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UlanBatori
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
The UK gave up India because it could not hold onto it thanks to Netaji and the INA.The RIN mutiny perhaps the final nail in the coffin.Caught between masses of mutinous Indian soldiets- and millions served in the two stupid European wars that encompassed the globe, and the " half-naked fakir" and his army of millions of disobedient serfs, the Brits knew that they were finished.
Exhausted after WW2 with huge manpower losses, that spawned immigration from thd colonies to rebuild Britain,a mutinous India violently throwing out the hated white oppressor would've seen mutinies all over the colonies. The empire would collapse like a house of cards with incalcuable and irreversible damage to its authority, global status and fortunes.A phased withdrawal, nay retreat that allowed it to leave yet leverage its economic wellbeing through the aura of its fading empire, the " Commonwealth" club, and using the US as godfather to cement Anglo- Saxon global intetests.This enabled it to hold onto strategic assets like DG, etc. where the natives were too weak to revolt!
Thus the baton of Anglo- Saxom imperialism was passed on to America with Britain as its sidekick, using its vast experience of centuries of colonial rule to still awe the newly independent native states and their rulers with its pomp and pageantry and monarchic mystique with its mediaeval mannerisms of a bygone era....and It still works. Look at the enormous interest in the wedding of a royal prince to a Yanqui of mixed parentage in its former colony the US! The inferiority of the immigrant Yanquis still wafts across the oceans to titillate the nostrils of their former rulers.
Exhausted after WW2 with huge manpower losses, that spawned immigration from thd colonies to rebuild Britain,a mutinous India violently throwing out the hated white oppressor would've seen mutinies all over the colonies. The empire would collapse like a house of cards with incalcuable and irreversible damage to its authority, global status and fortunes.A phased withdrawal, nay retreat that allowed it to leave yet leverage its economic wellbeing through the aura of its fading empire, the " Commonwealth" club, and using the US as godfather to cement Anglo- Saxon global intetests.This enabled it to hold onto strategic assets like DG, etc. where the natives were too weak to revolt!
Thus the baton of Anglo- Saxom imperialism was passed on to America with Britain as its sidekick, using its vast experience of centuries of colonial rule to still awe the newly independent native states and their rulers with its pomp and pageantry and monarchic mystique with its mediaeval mannerisms of a bygone era....and It still works. Look at the enormous interest in the wedding of a royal prince to a Yanqui of mixed parentage in its former colony the US! The inferiority of the immigrant Yanquis still wafts across the oceans to titillate the nostrils of their former rulers.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
you didn't have to delete what you wrote...saip wrote:Please use some other country pairs for this sarcastic post
even fox news found some of this to be indefensible.
from a purely 'Indians who were annoyed with US interference' etc pov...this is great stuff. we'll probably have no more bashans from state dept for a while.
the ones who are massa citizens though, are going to have to decide how long they can pretend to ignore
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Putin's hold on Donald Trump explained:
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/15/17233994/ ... ape-russia
Gautam
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/15/17233994/ ... ape-russia
Gautam
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UlanBatori
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
A bit of historic reference might be helpful here.
Long after the liberation of Bangladesh in 1971, the prevailing narrative in the US "intelligence" and "foreign policy" communities that are now barking so loudly, was that it was all India's fault and Indian aggression.
This is the same as what we see re: Syria/Libya/Iraq/Ukraine/Georgia/Yemen today. Had HiC been elected, the genocide in Syria would have been completed.
Why should I believe them?
20 years from now, the Documents will be DeClassified, and people will make money saying how they were all innocent, it was all the Other Guy/Gal who was crooked.
Elsewhere I note that Madelyn Albright has come out with her best-seller advising how to do US foreign policy. Her own subordinates (who left the SDOTUS in disgust) described her as an Idiot. Now a celebrated expert.
Comey is just ahead of his time, in getting a head start on the best-seller list. A sure indicator that he has the Deep State's full backing.
Trump is basically doing a Galileo act here, now declaring his Total Faith In The Pronouncements of US Intelligence Services. I note that he has not said precisely WHAT the US Intel has told him, since that will remain Classified for the next umpteen years.
So "Russia did nothing that the US didn't/wouldn't/won't do" and "I believe US intel" are completely consistent.
Question relevant here, is what all these entities are planning to do to INDIAN elections - and isn't the Indian media not going to be any less gaping-mouth idiotic than the US media are.
Long after the liberation of Bangladesh in 1971, the prevailing narrative in the US "intelligence" and "foreign policy" communities that are now barking so loudly, was that it was all India's fault and Indian aggression.
This is the same as what we see re: Syria/Libya/Iraq/Ukraine/Georgia/Yemen today. Had HiC been elected, the genocide in Syria would have been completed.
Why should I believe them?
20 years from now, the Documents will be DeClassified, and people will make money saying how they were all innocent, it was all the Other Guy/Gal who was crooked.
Elsewhere I note that Madelyn Albright has come out with her best-seller advising how to do US foreign policy. Her own subordinates (who left the SDOTUS in disgust) described her as an Idiot. Now a celebrated expert.
Comey is just ahead of his time, in getting a head start on the best-seller list. A sure indicator that he has the Deep State's full backing.
Trump is basically doing a Galileo act here, now declaring his Total Faith In The Pronouncements of US Intelligence Services. I note that he has not said precisely WHAT the US Intel has told him, since that will remain Classified for the next umpteen years.
So "Russia did nothing that the US didn't/wouldn't/won't do" and "I believe US intel" are completely consistent.
Question relevant here, is what all these entities are planning to do to INDIAN elections - and isn't the Indian media not going to be any less gaping-mouth idiotic than the US media are.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Philipji,Philip wrote:The UK gave up India because it could not hold onto it thanks to Netaji and the INA.The RIN mutiny perhaps the final nail in the coffin.Caught between masses of mutinous Indian soldiets- and millions served in the two stupid European wars that encompassed the globe, and the " half-naked fakir" and his army of millions of disobedient serfs, the Brits knew that they were finished.
Exhausted after WW2 with huge manpower losses, that spawned immigration from thd colonies to rebuild Britain,a mutinous India violently throwing out the hated white oppressor would've seen mutinies all over the colonies. The empire would collapse like a house of cards with incalcuable and irreversible damage to its authority, global status and fortunes.A phased withdrawal, nay retreat that allowed it to leave yet leverage its economic wellbeing through the aura of its fading empire, the " Commonwealth" club, and using the US as godfather to cement Anglo- Saxon global intetests.This enabled it to hold onto strategic assets like DG, etc. where the natives were too weak to revolt!
Thus the baton of Anglo- Saxom imperialism was passed on to America with Britain as its sidekick, using its vast experience of centuries of colonial rule to still awe the newly independent native states and their rulers with its pomp and pageantry and monarchic mystique with its mediaeval mannerisms of a bygone era....and It still works. Look at the enormous interest in the wedding of a royal prince to a Yanqui of mixed parentage in its former colony the US! The inferiority of the immigrant Yanquis still wafts across the oceans to titillate the nostrils of their former rulers.
The root of India's independence lies not in WWII but in WWI. The British ruling class ( as ICS officers or commissioned officers in the British Indian Army) came from a small elite of Public school educated men. This as a class was eliminated during 1914 to 1918. It must be remembered that the British were/are as caste conscious as Indians, and they did not trust the common Britishers for command. Pedigree, schooling and accent was of paramount importance to the goras. After WWI, the British were forced to recruit from the like minded (i.e. brown sahibs) Indian elite. More Indians came into the ICS and as officers in the army after this. But even the best of them had a divided loyalty.
Gautam
Re: Understanding the US- Again
The Brits sent out their best to run the empire and did have their own pecking order with the elite on top because they felt that they were the best.WW1 was the "Part 1" , the first half of the European conflict that spread.WW2 was the second half. The EU was formed to prevent future conflicts, called " Europe's last chance".
Over here a similar set up was adopted with native administrators and uniformed officers.It served us quite well both jn '65 and '71. They say fish rots from the head.Our corrupt, criminal pitical elite today havd replaced the stalwarts of the Freedom Struggle and the bureaucracy anx other institutions have thus suffeted.
Do you think that the recent meeting at Chequers in Britain where those cabinet ministers dissenting with May and who wished to resign would havd to go home by taxis,not by their ministerial limos, where cards were left for them on a table, could ever happen in India? Ex- ministers and MPs have stayed on in their official residences for years resisting eviction! Even the British PM when defeated and resigns leaves the very same day from No.10 allowing the new PM to move in immediately after meeting the Queen and getting her nod .Our netas have happily forgotten those high standards of public life.One member of the House of Lords, a minister, actually resigned because he was late and not in his seat at question time!
Was FM Sam Bahadur of divided loyalty? I disagree.Those officets in the services at the time of independence were in my opinion of better mettle than the pliable ones today.We had the sad affair of Gen.VKS not too long ago.The services are still the last bastion of
integrity, but how many stand up to the politico- babu regime and call a spade a spade?
Over here a similar set up was adopted with native administrators and uniformed officers.It served us quite well both jn '65 and '71. They say fish rots from the head.Our corrupt, criminal pitical elite today havd replaced the stalwarts of the Freedom Struggle and the bureaucracy anx other institutions have thus suffeted.
Do you think that the recent meeting at Chequers in Britain where those cabinet ministers dissenting with May and who wished to resign would havd to go home by taxis,not by their ministerial limos, where cards were left for them on a table, could ever happen in India? Ex- ministers and MPs have stayed on in their official residences for years resisting eviction! Even the British PM when defeated and resigns leaves the very same day from No.10 allowing the new PM to move in immediately after meeting the Queen and getting her nod .Our netas have happily forgotten those high standards of public life.One member of the House of Lords, a minister, actually resigned because he was late and not in his seat at question time!
Was FM Sam Bahadur of divided loyalty? I disagree.Those officets in the services at the time of independence were in my opinion of better mettle than the pliable ones today.We had the sad affair of Gen.VKS not too long ago.The services are still the last bastion of
integrity, but how many stand up to the politico- babu regime and call a spade a spade?
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Philipji,
The Indian commissioned officers and the ICS were to be exactly like their British counterparts except their colour. In this they were not successful. I remember reading an article by Annadashankar Ray, ICS,who retired after independence to pursue a successful writing career. He was close to both Gandhiji and Tagore. He wrote that he prayed each day that there would be no case of a freedom fighter, (that the British called a terrorist,) in his court as then he would have to resign rather than sentence the youth. This shows a divided loyalty. A British ICS would have no qualms. Would a Indian Commissioned Officer shoot at unarmed protesting Indian crowd as Col. Dyer did? I do not know. But the British made sure that such actions were made using British officers and often Gurkha soldiers. Indian officers were also not groomed for command. So, there was a lack of trust.
As this is getting to be OT, I stop here, my last post.
Gautam
The Indian commissioned officers and the ICS were to be exactly like their British counterparts except their colour. In this they were not successful. I remember reading an article by Annadashankar Ray, ICS,who retired after independence to pursue a successful writing career. He was close to both Gandhiji and Tagore. He wrote that he prayed each day that there would be no case of a freedom fighter, (that the British called a terrorist,) in his court as then he would have to resign rather than sentence the youth. This shows a divided loyalty. A British ICS would have no qualms. Would a Indian Commissioned Officer shoot at unarmed protesting Indian crowd as Col. Dyer did? I do not know. But the British made sure that such actions were made using British officers and often Gurkha soldiers. Indian officers were also not groomed for command. So, there was a lack of trust.
As this is getting to be OT, I stop here, my last post.
Gautam