Understanding the US - Again

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ramana
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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby ramana » 30 Aug 2018 07:00

See I try to make people learn by themselves!

Had I told all that I would be labelled CT master.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby ShauryaT » 30 Aug 2018 07:35

This is dated.
Documenting Hate: Charlottesville

In Documenting Hate: Charlottesville, FRONTLINE and ProPublica investigate the white supremacists and neo-Nazis involved in the 2017 Charlottesville Unite the Right rally. This is the first in a series of two Documenting Hate films from FRONTLINE and ProPublica, with the second coming later this fall.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Singha » 30 Aug 2018 09:23

a good film. worth the 55 mins.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Mort Walker » 30 Aug 2018 10:23

Singha wrote:a good film. worth the 55 mins.


Looking up FBI statistics, there doesn't appear to be 2017 data yet, but 2010 to 2016 is interesting.

Hate crime incidents:
2010- 6,628
2011- 6,222
2012- 5,796
2013- 5,928
2014- 5,479
2015- 5,850
2016- 6,121

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby A_Gupta » 30 Aug 2018 10:35

^^^ "Agencies that participated in the Hate Crime Statistics Program in 2016 represented nearly 290 million inhabitants, or 89.7 percent of the nation’s population, and their jurisdictions covered 49 states and the District of Columbia."
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2016/res ... thatecrime

and

The hate crimes report is fairly reflective of the country—agencies that participated in the Uniform Crime Reporting Hate Crime Statistics Program effort in 2010 represented more than 285 million people, or 92.3 percent of the nation’s population, and their jurisdictions covered 49 states and the District of Columbia.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/hate-c ... ain-steady

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Lalmohan » 30 Aug 2018 14:00

good article from war is boring - almost certainly written by an indian! :-)
it is a bit of a paraphrasing from blood telegrams (archer blood's story) but that is absolutely fine - exposes the fissures between Nixon&kissinger and the rest of the US establishment when it came to india/pak
the torpedo tubes open story is new. I am not convinced that the USSR and USA were ready to actually come to blows over the issue of Bangladesh - there was more shadow boxing than actual intent. mrs G had factored these things in - winter to keep the Chinese on the other side of the Himalayas, short strategic window to stop intervention by the US, treaty with the USSR to make both US and China pause
the USN took a very long and public sailing of the 7th fleet from Vietnam to be operationally serious about intervention, and the soviet navy - if they wanted to do more than look spooky would have sent more vessels
I think both US and USSR saw it as an irritant to the bigger picture

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby ramana » 30 Aug 2018 19:44

TF74 moved from South China Sea on Dec 10 thru Dec 15. Like 96 hours.
One more precaution was the IN and IAF raids to destroy any shipping, boats, ports etc to prevent landing sites and gathering places to pull off a Dunkirk.
Because of the uncertainty of FSU being ready to confront the US, Indira Gandhi authorized the PNE in December 1971 per Inder Malhotra columns.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby shyam » 01 Sep 2018 10:15

Image
People read above media and form strong opinions. It is going to be far away from reality.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Lalmohan » 01 Sep 2018 23:47

mango watch television
that too mostly Fox

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Singha » 02 Sep 2018 00:09

this seems to be shot by some foreign diplomat waiting with other diplomatic staff at dhaka airport in 1971, as indian mig21s and hunters attacked the base and daily attacked it to shut it down for the war. usually its starving yindu who cower before gora power, here the goras are hiding in mud trenches while starving yindu roars past in supersonic planes bombing the heart out of dhaka apt. :shock:

it maybe be the crucial strike by 4 x Mig21 at treetop level , with top cover by other fighters that scored hits with BETAB500 anti concrete bombs on the runway. to use a mig21 in that regime with the kind of basic instruments they had takes a lot of skill and courage.

a hunter burning and crashing is seen, maybe from another strike on same day



we lost a good % of losses in the east in attacking the heavily defended dhaka airport which housed the F86 sabres - feared sword of the khan. we grounded them there.

honour these men, they put lives on the line and some died like that burning hunter, so our kids may have a better tomorrow with a relatively benign BD than a virus like east pakistan...

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Singha » 02 Sep 2018 00:11


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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Sep 2018 02:54

Mort Walker wrote:Looking up FBI statistics, there doesn't appear to be 2017 data yet, but 2010 to 2016 is interesting.
Hate crime incidents:
2010- 6,628
2016- 6,121

Maybe they redefined the term. In 2010, had you called the POTUS an Orangutan, that would have got you a vacation to Ft. Leavenworth.
Today it would be considered a compliment to his Colouer de Weeg.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby souravB » 02 Sep 2018 05:00

Couldn't help but post it here. This does shows a side of America that it doesn't want the world to see.
Sacha Baron Cohen is a genius.

I wish if this type of things could also be done in Bharat.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby shyam » 02 Sep 2018 06:26

souravB wrote:I wish if this type of things could also be done in Bharat.

Why? Aren't we better off without these kinds of stuff?

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby souravB » 02 Sep 2018 06:56

shyam wrote:
souravB wrote:I wish if this type of things could also be done in Bharat.

Why? Aren't we better off without these kinds of stuff?

It may seem like clown shows, but it actually shows us aam abduls the level of hypocrisy in people at positions of power. Also shows the values that they adhere to. Ohh and for the record, Sacha Baron Cohen didn't received death threats for this whereas simple stand up comics get them everyday for joking on government in Bharat.
So no, these kinds of stuff are also necessary for us being better and make better decisions.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Lalmohan » 02 Sep 2018 18:52

I’ve not liked some of cohen’s characters, and i don’t like all the characters in this show, but when it works it is hillarious. Also good when the smarter interviewees shut him (the characters) down
The congressman from georgia was a classic - on camera with his butt out trying to touch an isis terrorist suspect to turn him homosexual...
The one that was disturbing was the kingman arizona town hall where he wants to build a mosque... and the levels of raw hatred that came out of the good citizens of kingman... against muslims and then against blacks...

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Vayutuvan » 04 Sep 2018 06:34

habal wrote:follow your instincts.


I can agree with that.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby A Nandy » 05 Sep 2018 20:17

https://www.fastcompany.com/90224907/sa ... sing-costs

Ray’s circumstances sum up a pernicious feature of employment in the U.S.: Having a job does not guarantee that you will be able to have a life, or a stable, affordable place to live. This is a departure from the era after World War II, when people (mostly men) returning from the war were entitled to housing loans and free college tuition that both alleviated the pressures of debt and helped them establish a vehicle for which to build wealth: owning an appreciating home.


https://www.fastcompany.com/90227917/to ... t-salaries

This is how the entire private equity system works. A firm, or group of firms, look out for struggling companies they believe they can quickly fix and make a return. They purchase them, forcing the businesses themselves to accrue insane debt loads to be “saved” by the private equity firms. And then the firms implement sweeping changes to make their money back–usually massive cuts and pay freezes. A common effect of a private equity buyout is liquidation; if the company can’t keep up with its interest payments or isn’t able to create a big enough profit, the firms will sell the organizations for parts. This is still often considered a success for shareholders because they made a return.


Predatory capitalism at its best.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Lalmohan » 05 Sep 2018 21:47

that's a rather unidimensional view of the PE industry. whilst the above is true in a number of cases, it is also true that in other cases, PE firms actually do rebuild the target company and help it significantly grow profits (without the slash and burn) and get a decent up side return

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Gus » 05 Sep 2018 23:43

The deep state has got to Bob Woodward it seems. He's saying that that the WH staff swaps papers from DT desk to prevent him from reading or signing etc. Deep state in WH staff as well, preventing DT from carrying out his mandate. But not sure how or why this deep state leaked this info to the other deep state that's writing books and discrediting DT from dismantling world order. I am sure there's some profound explanation for all this.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Sep 2018 09:04

A quote:
"Dear Administration officials who tell us anonymously that they are attempting to run the country by working around the disaster of a man who sits in the Oval Office:
You’re not avoiding a constitutional crisis.
You’re participating in one."

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Singha » 06 Sep 2018 09:09

its all part of the play in discrediting DT as ineffective, impulsive and dangerous - damage his prospects for 2020.
in india, Yogi is being similarly targeted. Modi before that.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Singha » 06 Sep 2018 09:15

getting bit ridiculous ... anonymous Oped in NYT
https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/05/media/ ... index.html

Several days ago a senior official in the Trump administration used an intermediary to contact New York Times op-ed page editor Jim Dao.

Through the go-between, the senior official expressed interest in writing an explosive piece for the paper, describing a "resistance" to President Trump within the government that works overtime to protect the United States from the president's worst impulses.

The result, published on the New York Times' website on Wednesday, prompted speculation all across Washington about who the official is.

Dao, of course, isn't saying. In a telephone interview, he was careful not to share any identifying details, even the person's gender.

"The person contacted me through an intermediary," he said.

Dao said it happened "several days ago," declining to be more specific.

Many officials within the administration can be considered "senior," even if they do not work in the West Wing or interact directly with Trump.

Dao declined to characterize just how "senior" the whistleblower is. He said the Times did speak to the author directly, but wouldn't say how so.

"We were simply trying to abide by the standard that the Times in general would use when referring to someone who's not named," he said.

Dao reports to editorial page editor James Bennet, who in turn reports to the Times publisher A.G. Sulzberger. The opinion section is separate from the newsroom.

Dao said there are only a "very small number of people within the Times who know this person's identity," but he declined to name them.

He said "we have taken a number of special precautions to protect the person's identity."

Face to face meetings? Encrypted messaging? The speculation will continue, but Dao would not go into any detail.

He said there was no special effort to disguise the person's writing style, for example by rewriting the piece in some fashion.

"There's editing in everything we do," he said, but it's based on making the person's views "clearer" and adhering to style standards.

Despite the extraordinary nature of the op-ed, Dao said, his initial response to the intermediary was the same as it would be for anyone else.

The op-ed came on the same week that the excerpts from Bob Woodward's book "Fear" have revived conversations about Trump's behavior and fitness for office.

Dao said that as far as he knows, "this is a coincidence," meaning the senior official's outreach was not related to the Woodward book.

Major newspapers almost never publish unnamed op-ed pieces. At The Times, it is very rare, but not quite unprecedented.

Dao said he had published a few other anonymous pieces during his tenure as op-ed editor, which began in early 2016. The most recent example was a piece in June by an unnamed asylum seeker from El Salvador.

In the case of the senior Trump administration official, The Times said it granted anonymity "at the request of the author" because the person's job "would be jeopardized by its disclosure."

Dao declined to say whether he pressed the person to speak on the record.

He said, "we felt it was a very strong piece written by someone who had something important to say and who's speaking from a place of their own sense of personal ethics and conscience. That was our main focus."

He said he couldn't talk about the fact-checking process in detail, but "we do make an effort to check the facts for all the pieces."

Dao did not rule out publishing another op-ed from the senior official in the future.
:twisted:

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby sum » 06 Sep 2018 12:09

Singha wrote:its all part of the play in discrediting DT as ineffective, impulsive and dangerous - damage his prospects for 2020.
in india, Yogi is being similarly targeted. Modi before that.

But its outright dangerous when the papers a elected president asks for or signs as orders are being held back from implementation secretly by some babus of the govt in the name of "i feel it is right"

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby shyam » 06 Sep 2018 12:55


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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Sep 2018 16:40

What sum said!!!

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Gus » 06 Sep 2018 17:16

Babu? Important WH staff are trump appointees, no?

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Lalmohan » 06 Sep 2018 18:19

sum wrote:But its outright dangerous when the papers a elected president asks for or signs as orders are being held back from implementation secretly by some babus of the govt in the name of "i feel it is right"


logically and conceptually yes you are right. but then we enter the complex world of morality and conscience. the paper in question was I believe a unilateral cancellation of the US-SoKo trade agreement, without discussion or negotiation (internally or with SoKo). technically the POTUS is entitled to do exactly that, however - cancelling something like that on a whim doesn't feel like something the POTUS should do without due consideration and consultation at cabinet level - which apparently had not been done.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Sep 2018 09:07

^^^ But walking out of the US-SoKo trade agreement would be a minor disaster which might provoke Congress to exercise its oversight powers, which it is lax is doing so right now. This increases the probability of a major disaster when Trump doesn't let his underlings work around him by subterfuge.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Yagnasri » 07 Sep 2018 09:32

People appointed by an elected officials trying to stop the same elected official in a secretive way is not good for any nation. I am very surprised that there is support in the US for this. But that in turn stupid of me. This thing must be going on in many administrations.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby sum » 07 Sep 2018 09:45

logically and conceptually yes you are right. but then we enter the complex world of morality and conscience. the paper in question was I believe a unilateral cancellation of the US-SoKo trade agreement, without discussion or negotiation (internally or with SoKo). technically the POTUS is entitled to do exactly that, however - cancelling something like that on a whim doesn't feel like something the POTUS should do without due consideration and consultation at cabinet level - which apparently had not been done.

Very slippery slope ( for any nation) if such things can be rationalised
There is a congress etc to take it up if Prez oversight his jursidiction but hiding papers based on some unelected officials whims is frankly scary

Since it is US, i do not care so much but worried about what happens when INC/left folks learn this trick and start quoting morality to do such things in the Indian context and stave off the evil Hindutva PM from "harming" the country

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Lalmohan » 07 Sep 2018 13:35

the fact that it has allegedly happened is a sign of dysfunction in the white house, not normal operations by any stretch of the imagination

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Lalmohan » 07 Sep 2018 13:59

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ But walking out of the US-SoKo trade agreement would be a minor disaster which might provoke Congress to exercise its oversight powers, which it is lax is doing so right now. This increases the probability of a major disaster when Trump doesn't let his underlings work around him by subterfuge.


with a republican majority in both houses beholden to the NRA and to a 'conservative' agenda (read preserve white Christian dominance agenda) there has been no attempt in the past 18 months at exercising oversight. the representatives and senators appear to be in thrall and fear of upsetting the great leader (or more importantly his base) lest they lose their seats in November

key republicans like mcconnel and ryan are caught between a rock and a hard place and also with the NRA's hands in their chuddies. the dysfunctionality rot now runs very deep. the normal checks and balances have been subverted and are no longer effective.

the system is not about to break, but it has not been under this much strain for a very very long time

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Lalmohan » 07 Sep 2018 14:07

btw - the cancellation (or announcement of) bilateral military exercises between US and SoKo forces in the run up to the Singapore summit also took DoD and Joint Chiefs by surprise. several comments made in woodward's book about the great leader's lack of understanding of why the US has such a large military presence in SoKo. I can imagine that in the backdrop to these essentially chaotic actions there could have been real panic in the west wing about the impact of a random cancellation of the US-SoKo trade agreement. some may say - great! he is upsetting the apple cart and it is all necessary, but in the context of korea, these individual actions if not thought through come at very very high risk of very bad outcomes

that's not what the 'leader of the free world' should be inadvertently doing

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Rudradev » 07 Sep 2018 16:21

sum wrote:
Since it is US, i do not care so much but worried about what happens when INC/left folks learn this trick and start quoting morality to do such things in the Indian context and stave off the evil Hindutva PM from "harming" the country


Boss, if anything the people in the Trump White House learned it from INC/left. Exactly what you describe was happening here 20 years ago (though those concerned weren't stupid enough to write Op Eds declaring their intentions).

Remember Brajesh Mishra? Remember Jaswant Singh? Notice how not ONE move was made during 1998-2004 to bring La Famiglia criminals to justice? And many, many more curious dysfunctions of NDA 1.

Going OT so I will stop there.


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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby JE Menon » 09 Sep 2018 11:40

^^^virtually identical to tactics employed in India by NGOs. I would be surprised if this fellow did not get some initiation back home. Over many decades since independence almost all forms of subversion are first tried in India, perfected in failure, and the process employed elsewhere in the hope of success.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Karan M » 09 Sep 2018 11:59

The same NYT, WaPo which run such pathetic hit jobs on Indian Hindu heathens are hardly going to be paragons of morality when it comes to their domestic targets. All these "newspapers" sold their souls a long time back and will gladly cook up anything and everything to target their desired enemies. Justifying it as necessary, because they know better and are superior to the dutty masses who elect XYZ. I hold no brief for anyone in the current Khan admin, but hey, can't help but notice the same underhanded tricks being used to discredit folks these trash purveyors don't like.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Sep 2018 01:39

IMO the WHOTUS OpEd is false.
Now I have read it too. Actually it is total pompous garbage of the type one hears from undergraduates or high-schoolers who think the world runs because of them. Perhaps written by a high-school intern who sits at a phone in the WHOTUS and convinced the NYT dupes that s(he) is like Deep Throat. Come to think of it, it does have the touch of the female of the species (won't say why or there will be underhanded calls to ban me like there were on the Pissiks dhaga). M. Lewinsky II?

So these twerps take credit for tax reform? WTF elected them? The POTUS did that almost single-handedly, as he did with cutting deals with the donkeys to get govt out of the shutdown crisis.

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Re: Understanding the US- Again

Postby Singha » 10 Sep 2018 12:20

Image


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