Understanding the US - Again

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vera_k
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vera_k » 03 Nov 2018 07:27

UlanBatori wrote:Hope he has a nice huge golden parachute. They want to grab the CEO post for a suitable gora/gori like the bibi who took Yahoo from Chapter 11 to Chapter 13. Time for him to get out: Google stock is heading down, even b4 donkeys grab COTUS House and get the Just-Iss Dept to break up Alphabet.


The Yahoo bibi was one of the founder's girlfriend. She could be CEO if she could do the job :rotfl:. But seriously, at Google the founders control 51% of the stock. No one else matters, and that does make Google different. If there's one reason why investors should go after Google is because they are the ones that started this dual share structure.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Singha » 03 Nov 2018 07:33

google must have wound up its funding rounds early with large infusions, so that permitted founders to retain 51%
generally founders are left with 10% after 4 rounds ?

they had mysterious support as "the chosen one" from early investors, why or really who is not that clear.

you will recall there were other search engines too like altavista, yahoo, inktomi that did not garner such "special" support

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 03 Nov 2018 17:40

For whatever reason, Google came out with incredibly smooth email (gmail) and efficient search engine. I think the tech came from a desi Database guru in Mongolia among other places: several of the search engines did, I think Google's PhD thesis was later than the others, so it was better. My Evil 6th coujin once wrote a proposal with him, but frankly, SE tech outpaced what we were proposing to do and made it completely needless within about 3 years. So these were very real and incredibly fast technical advancements, with extremely persistent hard work built on top of that. Nothing came easy. Their bijnej model of totally free, unlimited geemail accounts which they then used to mine data for ads, was pure genius - for a long time people would not accept geemail saying it must be bogus (er... like some Internet forums I know). Yahoo!! is a sad case of mismanagement - they were far and away the leaders, but the technology stayed static or regressed, the rules became ever nastier, storage was limited (so many people had yahoo email that said: quota exceeded; whereas google just said: Why delete when you have unlimited storage? Keep ur trash, so we can mine it and spy on you and sell you).
Then they had the GeoCities SNAFU: killed off entire massive communities that were serious. Destroyed such a huuuuge asset.
This is one thing where Google has not succeeded: I don't use Google-Plus so I assume that is a flop.
Even today Yahoo search engine looks as sad as it did in the 1990s.
But Yahoo! stock story should be instructive. It shot up to 100, 200, 300, 400, 550. I argued strenuously in PeeAref that it was really worth only $2, but failed to heed my own advice. It DID go down to $2. :((

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby SaiK » 03 Nov 2018 22:22

deep underneath, google will be untold stories (collection of mini stories), but will get to know only after jepp bejoj crashes.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vera_k » 03 Nov 2018 23:51

Singha wrote:google must have wound up its funding rounds early with large infusions, so that permitted founders to retain 51%
generally founders are left with 10% after 4 rounds ?


Not really. They came out with multiple share classes after going public. One of the share classes gets you 10x the voting power. I do agree that calling the Google CEO on to the mat is not of much use since neither he nor the board is in control of the company. However he's being paid lavishly to shield the founders from distractions such as these.

Google’s Multi-Class Stock Structure Made Alphabet Move Unique

Google’s Class A shares are held by regular investors, while Class B super-voting shares carry 10 times as many votes for the founders. Class C shares have no voting rights, typically held by employees granted stock and Class A stockholders

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Shwetank » 03 Nov 2018 23:56

Well the mysterious support for Google might have some basis, the US intelligence communities had interest and kept tabs on it since the founders were grad students: https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence ... 36451a959e

Note, a desi lady seems to be senior position also in all this, they appreciate talent which people's own countries don't.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vera_k » 04 Nov 2018 01:00

It makes for good reading, but then much of Silicon Valley and tech elsewhere owes its existence to defense spending.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 04 Nov 2018 01:25

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nstitution
Trump's attack on birthright citizenship betrays his ignorance – and his weakness
Corey Brettschneider, Sat 3 Nov 2018.
In an interview that will air in full on Sunday, Donald Trump reveals that he wants to end birthright citizenship through executive order. But he doesn’t have that power. An executive order cannot reverse the guarantee of citizenship to anyone born in the United States that is enshrined in the constitution. Trump’s proposal reveals that he does not understand our constitution, or the deeper values behind it.
After the civil war, Congress sought to grant full citizenship to African Americans, who had been denied it under the Dred Scott supreme court decision. Yet when it passed the 14th amendment in 1868, Congress went further. It wrote a rule making it clear that any person, regardless of ethnicity or national origin, had a right to citizenship upon being born in the US.
The relevant portion of the 14th amendment reads: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” The phrase about jurisdiction was meant to exclude the children of ambassadors and tribal Native Americans, who until 1924 were regarded as citizens of separate sovereign nations.
These words about birthright citizenship reflect the wider values of the 14th amendment, which also guarantees “equal protection of the laws” for all persons. Together with the constitution’s ban on royal titles in Article I, Section 9, the document stands for the idea that the US does not condone hereditary hierarchy – or any legal distinction based on birth or parentage, ideas associated with aristocratic societies. In the US, everyone starts on the same plane.The meaning of the birthright citizenship provision was soon tested. In 1898, at a time of hostility to immigrants, the supreme court was asked in United States v Wong Kim Ark, whether the amendment applied to the children of non-citizens.Wong Kim Ark was born to Chinese immigrant parents in San Francisco. But by the time of the case, Chinese people had been barred from entry into the US by the Chinese Exclusion Act. Was being born in America enough to make him a citizen? The court answered in language as plain as the amendment itself: “[C]itizenship by birth is established by the mere fact of birth under the circumstances defined in the constitution.” No ambiguity. No constitutional obfuscation. Just a direct affirmation of an important constitutional guarantee.
Contrary to Trump’s assertion, the constitution’s text and values and supreme court decisions show he cannot unilaterally revoke birthright citizenship. Nor can Congress pass a law to do so. The idea is enshrined in the constitution and can only be changed with a formal amendment.
However, a small group of scholars suggest a radical and very different reading of the 14th amendment. In their view, the language of “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” means something different from the plain meaning of excluding ambassadors’ children. They claim only citizens and legal residents who have shown “allegiance” to the country are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, and so only children of law-abiding citizens and legal residents are entitled to birthright citizenship. In their view, the children of undocumented immigrants are not entitled to citizenship.
This reading is at odds with the constitution and supreme court decisions. If only the children of loyal citizens and residents were entitled to birthright citizenship, it would have been explicitly enshrined in the text – or discussed extensively in the ratification debates. It was not. At the very least, it would have played a central role in the reasoning of Wong Kim Ark. It did not. The argument would also make the rights of children depend on the beliefs of the parents. That is an idea that the entire constitution rejects. Specifically, the 14th amendment focuses on the rights of children born in the US, not those of the parents who gave birth to them. In fact, the supreme court in Wong Kim Ark made it clear that every person born in the territory of the US is entitled to birthright citizenship. The justices wrote: “Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization.”
....
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Nov 2018 01:50

Wong Kim Ark was child of legal immigrants. I wonder if, say, a Paki terrorist sneaking under the LOC wire - and giving birth there - becomes mother of an Indian citjen? Trumpistanis may be depending on the "jurisdictional" etc. An outlaw places himself/herself outside the law. An illegal immigrant is considered to have dissed the Constitution and US jurisdiction by entering the country illegally. The moment she gives birth, how then can the offspring claim protection as an American citizen?

I am not agreeing with the Trumpistanis, merely pointing out that the precedents cited in the above article do not cover the situation of children of illegal immigrants.

However... one could ask the following: (give me a second to put on my SC wig and Dracula costume here): The BrFee Court is now in session, the Honorabal and Dignitiabal Ulan Batori Presiding:

X is born to illegal immigrants inside the USA. Therefore per Trumpistanis, X is not a citizen or legal immigrant. X meets Y, similarly "illegal" or "statusless", and they have a baby, Z. Is Z now a US citizen? No way!

Z meets Z', also likewise, and they have a child, Z''. Also not US citizen.

Now roll back the sequence to those who came in on the Mayflower. Did they get US citizenship cards authorized by the US govt? There was no US govt to authorize it, unless the local Native Americans did, which I doubt very much. So unless one can prove at least some Native American blood, all descendants of those who came prior to the official formation of the United State and its Immigration Bureaucracy, are illegals. Statusless.

Someone elected by their votes is not a legal President. Someone sworn in as SC Judge by appointment by such an illegal President has no authority. The whole nation is illegal. Except those who were conceived in Mexico who are Mexicans since Life Begins At Conception. Plus those who are British citizens by virtuelessness of being conceived in British colonies.

Q.E.D. Order! Order in the Courtroom!!!

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby shyam » 05 Nov 2018 01:53


UlanBatori
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Nov 2018 02:01

(sigh!) As I always tell Mongolians who ask me the difference between US parties:
They are all crooks. Difference is that the elephants are slightly smarter if clumsy crooks. The donkeys are, well, donkeys after all. They couldn't do a proper hack because they wouldn't hire competent hackers. Duh!
Getting caught 2 days b4 the erections is also vely verly smalt. :roll:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 05 Nov 2018 02:28

Details of Wong Kim Ark:
http://www.chineseamericanheroes.org/ar ... ates_v.pdf
Ulanbatoriji,
The Constitution, as it is interpreted today, gives birth right citizenship to any one born in the US. It does not distinguish between children of legal and illegal immigrants. It could have, but it did not. Most legal opinions state that to change that status an amendment of the constitution is required. That will be difficult. Trump can not issue an executive order in this regard. Even if the congress passed a law, it may prove to be unconstitutional. That may change as the current SC is completely under conservative majority. The supporters of Trump have for years talked about "anchor" babies. For example, many rich Chinese, send pregnant wives to the US so that the baby born automatically gets US citizenship, who can then sponsor the parents and siblings. The discussions to stop this is also going on for many years. In earlier times babies born in UK also had automatic citizenship. They no longer do so. The same is the case for India. The laws were changed to achieve this goal.
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Nov 2018 09:02

All Trump has to do is to opine that the Phounding Phathers and SC never intended to allow anchor-baby scams. Don't know how far he can go with a donkey-dominated House, but if elephants keep both houses, he can simply give orders, and it will take forever for SC to decide on it. Law may get revised b4 that happens. My guess is that like the Snail Darter, Anchor Baby scam is doomed: the new rule will be buried somewhere on p. 2637 of a Budget or some such thing that is very very late, leading to "No Amendment Deal" where the whole Bill passes with no mods. So I would say that a determined COTUS and POTUS will hammer that through. No worries for legal immigrants IMO, though British racists decided otherwise.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vera_k » 05 Nov 2018 10:12

^ I suspect there is a lot of non-immigrant population that will be affected. Certainly will be if US citizenship law starts to mirror Indian citizenship law.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Gus » 05 Nov 2018 10:40

g.sarkar wrote:For example, many rich Chinese, send pregnant wives to the US so that the baby born automatically gets US citizenship, who can then sponsor the parents and siblings.
Gautam


hmmm..the child becomes 21 years old

and then files for family GC of parents and siblings..which is like another 10 years or so..

diabolical..and tooooo long..

when they could just as well pay the middle-east peace guy for an EB5.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Yagnasri » 05 Nov 2018 10:44

People gamed the system in Birth right citizenship. Now DT making his move which will be supported by his base. He and his supporters will highlight the abuses and may even get traction in independents. SC is now has judges who are going to interpret the constitution as it was originally intended. With 14th Amendment the word "Jurisdiction" will be decided. I have a gut feeling that it may not be as open and shut case as we think here. It may go either way.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby saip » 05 Nov 2018 10:50

Gus, I think parents of US citizens (18 yrs) get GC immediately.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby saip » 05 Nov 2018 10:51

To me it is a catch 22 situation. The S.C conservatives may want to interpret the constitution as 'written' which means Roe v Wade may become history they may not agree the word 'born' in 14th amendment can be interpreted differently and so executive order can not override plain reading.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Singha » 05 Nov 2018 12:00

saip wrote:Gus, I think parents of US citizens (18 yrs) get GC immediately.


if that is true, that may be the retirement plan for rich chinese, after kids college education and job settlement in usa.
there is an air of uncertainty for rich chinese wrt to political vendetta, which makes them park kids in anglosphere and also some of wealth in anglosphere , singapore etc. because these are the only places where chinese agents cannot rendition them or hurt them.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Gus » 05 Nov 2018 12:11

saip wrote:Gus, I think parents of US citizens (18 yrs) get GC immediately.


u r right..they come under immediate relative category and no quota limits..

tbh..i never thought of that as even an option for me..it makes no sense to move over in my 50s. that's the worst age..can't work like in 30s, and feel all lonely with no social life etc..

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby saip » 05 Nov 2018 13:34

And then the parents can file petition for their UNMARRIED children and also MARRIED children if under 21 years of age. They are given category 2a & b. Oh, GOD unless they are from Norway Trump goes crazy (chain migration).

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Gus » 05 Nov 2018 15:18

plus any adopted kids under 16...

and if the norwegian adopts a nigerian... :shock:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Lalmohan » 05 Nov 2018 17:15

Singha wrote:if that is true, that may be the retirement plan for rich chinese, after kids college education and job settlement in usa.


the other category of people who seem to maximise use of this option is rich russians

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 05 Nov 2018 18:13

Anytime they point fingers at India, use this:
https://www.bleedingheartland.com/2018/ ... e-divided/
For the past several weeks, I have hosted dozens of door-knocking canvassers, and many have returned with similar tales of men denying access to the women in their households. I have not heard one instance of a woman denying access to a man she lives with.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby abhik » 05 Nov 2018 20:04

Yagnasri wrote:People gamed the system in Birth right citizenship. Now DT making his move which will be supported by his base. He and his supporters will highlight the abuses and may even get traction in independents. SC is now has judges who are going to interpret the constitution as it was originally intended. With 14th Amendment the word "Jurisdiction" will be decided. I have a gut feeling that it may not be as open and shut case as we think here. It may go either way.

As per a faux news report the original authors of the amendment explicitly stated that it won't apply to aliens diplomats etc., Will post later if I find it.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ShyamSP » 05 Nov 2018 21:04

abhik wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:People gamed the system in Birth right citizenship. Now DT making his move which will be supported by his base. He and his supporters will highlight the abuses and may even get traction in independents. SC is now has judges who are going to interpret the constitution as it was originally intended. With 14th Amendment the word "Jurisdiction" will be decided. I have a gut feeling that it may not be as open and shut case as we think here. It may go either way.

As per a faux news report the original authors of the amendment explicitly stated that it won't apply to aliens diplomats etc., Will post later if I find it.


Yes diplomats don't come under US jurisdiction so do the illegal aliens. Legal immigrants and non-immigrants (visa holders) come under jurisdiction. Only gotcha is tourist visa. That can be shut down by executive order by saying valid visa holders staying more than a year and/or paying taxes.

POTUS/SCOTUS also has access to dictionary like Indian SC does to play with words.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Nov 2018 21:12

Gus wrote:when they could just as well pay the middle-east peace guy for an EB5.

Exactly my thoughts on the Rich Chinese model of the scam. But point is that it IS and should be considered a "scam" whether it is Rich Chinese or Poor Guatemalan Coming Through Mexico, if they are going to make the regulations stand up to legal scrutiny. It is a way of circumventing the process of legal immigration. You cannot have a different rule for Rich Chinese vs. Poor Guatemalans.
Indian law is better than law in many other countries which simply offer no straightforward or curved process for legal immigration. But India does not consider herself a Nation of Immigrants, the density of population is not low enough to warrant a policy of inviting Settlers, and the average age of the workforce does not force the nation to look outside for workers to come in. All these enter the picture.

The US **DOES** have a need for immigrants, and DOES, believe it or not, offer a semi-accepting and even quasi-welcoming legal gateway other than EB5. (for those less expert than we Mongolian Trillionaires, EB5 says that every $1M, $0.5M spent in backward areas, is welcome, it it spent creating jobs for 2 years. The Entrepreneur's family also gets green cards.) So this is E-Z for Paki jarnails, Cheen Party netas, Saudis, African dictators and desis with the right connections.

In a different era the US might have winked at the Birther Scam and even welcomed it.
[quote]Conceive in Cancun, Give Birth in the CONUS.
But not any more, not with a MAGA POTUS, tired and aging workforce facing demographic replacement by "alien cultures", unemployed veterans freezing to death on park benches and tens of thousands of ppl sleeping in tent cities and streets even in the vaunted Bay Area. So they will look for Us vs. Them Reasons To Point To Their Illegal Conduct vs. Our Ethical Purity.

Of course I don't have a solution.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Nov 2018 02:45

Latest Election Prediction:
Pundits, u ain't got no clue
But UBCN does. And so v r predicting that BOTH the House and Senate are going "Red". Republican. Maybe reduced majority in House, but increased majority in Senate.
(if we are wrong no one cares. Been there, done that. If we are right, no one cares but v will gloat)
Now if I had the guts to buy stock based on that, but I don't. :((
For one thing, look at the weather map for Election Din
Entire East, the bastion of donkeystan, is heading for wet, windy weather with tornado risk.
Entire West which generally votes pachydermic, has sunshine except for Washington State (seattle) which may be liberal.
California is sunny so that all the (illegals) :shock: can come out and vote, so that should be a comfort for donkeys. Then again, they haven't had sunshine for a while (major storm just passed), so hourly workers etc may be trying to make up for lost days and earn a few dollars. Not a day to waste standing in long lines.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby g.sarkar » 06 Nov 2018 03:14

Gus wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:For example, many rich Chinese, send pregnant wives to the US so that the baby born automatically gets US citizenship, who can then sponsor the parents and siblings.
Gautam


hmmm..the child becomes 21 years old

and then files for family GC of parents and siblings..which is like another 10 years or so..

diabolical..and tooooo long..

when they could just as well pay the middle-east peace guy for an EB5.

Gusji,
There was a TV program on this topic. The Sugarland people that are sending their wives are not exactly poor. The process takes thousands of dollars and involve medical consultation and expensive accommodation. Most of the Sugar people want to have an exit in case their country explodes. Most of them do not even plan to stay in the US after getting their green card, they are making enough money else where. I think the trend started after Hong Kong was taken over and continues with Mainland Sugars. This class of citizens also have access to other countries such as Canada, UK, Germany etc. in case they have to leave in a hurry.
Gautam

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Nov 2018 03:37

Sugarland :rotfl: Tubelight, moi.


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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Gyan » 06 Nov 2018 22:22

Very difficult to follow US Mid term elections through Google. Most search results force feed UK leftist paper articles repeatedly. It would seem that there is no US Media. (I am based in India)

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Lalmohan » 06 Nov 2018 22:27

^^^ you can select the google US site

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Gyan » 06 Nov 2018 22:40

Yes tried that.

Seems Gallup giving House also to Republican s. While CNN desperate for Democrats

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Gyan » 06 Nov 2018 22:52

https://www.infowars.com/final-gallup-p ... the-house/

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-a ... 1357?amp=1

A CNN poll released Monday indicated a 39 percent approval rating for Trump, one of his lowest marks of the year, but his average of 43.7 percent in other major national polls reflected most of his results in 2018.

Other recent polls have shown a much higher approval rating for Trump. Rasmussen Reports, which often has the highest figures for the president, showed a 50 percent approval rating in its daily poll Monday. And CBS News showed a 47 percent approval rating in its poll conducted from October 30 to November 3.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vijayk » 07 Nov 2018 02:18

Gyan wrote:Yes tried that.

Seems Gallup giving House also to Republican s. While CNN desperate for Democrats


Hillary had 3M+ votes advantage.

House is based on population. House seats are adjusted up/down based on census. Highly probable that Dems will win.

Senate is based on states. So small states can reduce importance of populous states like CA and NJ.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Nov 2018 03:07

vijayk wrote:Seems Gallup giving House also to Republicans.

Hmmm! What do Reno and Las Vegas say?
Odds to win House Control 2018
Democrats: 71.5% chance (-251 odds)
Republicans: 34.6% chance (+189 odds)
via BookMaker
The odds above from Bovada and BookMaker are in line with the rest of the market: At PredictIt, Democrats are trading at 70% to win the House; at Smarkets, Democrats sit at 68.97%.

All libtards! :mrgreen:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ShyamSP » 07 Nov 2018 03:50

vijayk wrote:
Gyan wrote:Yes tried that.

Seems Gallup giving House also to Republican s. While CNN desperate for Democrats


Hillary had 3M+ votes advantage.

House is based on population. House seats are adjusted up/down based on census. Highly probable that Dems will win.

Senate is based on states. So small states can reduce importance of populous states like CA and NJ.


That's correct House (Lok Sabha) reflects popular voting and Senate (Rajya Sabha) reflects electoral voting (similar to Presidential election). Hillary won popular voting over Trump, whole of that difference came from Southern California itself. So Democrats are showing excessive enthusiasm to bet on immigration as they can fetch more house seats.

We'll know in a few hours whether Republicans can squeak through the majority in the House or give it up for Democrats

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Nov 2018 07:17

UBCN considering correcting predictor, but holding firm for now. Some elephant wins are by landslide, for instance Jawjuh Guvnor elephant leading 2:1 after massive, and VERY nasty and hate-filled donkey campaign.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Nov 2018 09:28

UBCN sticks to prediction!!! "Blue Wave" more like ripple. Elephants seem to be INCREASING senate majority. UBCN uber CNN!!!


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